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Initial Tests: Windows 10 vs. Ubuntu With NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 / GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 Ti

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Scellow View Post
    What's the point of this "benchmark" both machines are different
    Both systems are the same...?
    Michael Larabel
    http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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    • #12
      Thanks a lot for this tests.
      I would love to read WINE staging - and Proton - game tests too as this GPU are gaming ones.
      Doom16 Opengl and Vulkan MS WOS vs Wine Stage vs Proton 720p (~1k) 1080p (~2k) and 4k

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Aiua View Post
        I'd think a lot of linux gamers, at least those interested in benchmarks, would be on recent kernel & drivers.
        I mean, I'm pretty sure Michael uses up-to-date drivers for Windows.
        I don't know many GNU/Linux, but the ones I do know don't spend time upgrading their OS to have a newer kernel & mesa. It's often a time consuming, risky & error prone affair. If you think about the typical Windows gamer and their general level of technical competence, you might agree with me that it's a bad idea suggesting to the average person that they should attempt to upgrade their kernel using unofficial sources: not on a machine that they need anyway. Most Windows gamers I know tend to only have one computer that they use for gaming, work and everything.

        Note: I expect these people would upgrade their proprietary NVIDIA drivers and they would upgrade their distro from time to time. This is compatible with what I originally said though.

        I maintain: the system that Michael tested is very realistically typical of what GNU/Linux gamers would be using. It's a fair test.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

          I don't know many GNU/Linux, but the ones I do know don't spend time upgrading their OS to have a newer kernel & mesa. It's often a time consuming, risky & error prone affair. If you think about the typical Windows gamer and their general level of technical competence, you might agree with me that it's a bad idea suggesting to the average person that they should attempt to upgrade their kernel using unofficial sources: not on a machine that they need anyway. Most Windows gamers I know tend to only have one computer that they use for gaming, work and everything.

          Note: I expect these people would upgrade their proprietary NVIDIA drivers and they would upgrade their distro from time to time. This is compatible with what I originally said though.

          I maintain: the system that Michael tested is very realistically typical of what GNU/Linux gamers would be using. It's a fair test.
          This. Though I admit I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of Proton with the latest DXVK (you can manually replace to the latest version) + latest Nvidia Vulkan driver, compared to Windows.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by rabcor View Post
            Also, why ubuntu? why not something faster? Manjaro is real popular these days...
            Except it's not.

            Originally posted by rabcor View Post
            Yes, we are, and we should have already more than a decade ago. It might not fully apply for some applications that demand utmost stability, such as servers (keyword being might)
            Ah here come the rolling release advocates who think their minority point of view is the majority.

            Originally posted by rabcor View Post
            But for consumers, and even most professional applications, lagging behind a whole fucking year on releases? That's just not ok for most people, it doesn't happen on macs, it doesn't happen on windows, it only happens here
            It's exactly the opposite. Rolling releases are not ok for most people. Where the fuck do you pull this kind of shit from? They have always been in the minority.

            And yes it fucking happens on Windows, at least before W10, and guess which Windows version is still old as hell and 20 times more popular than Linux. The preferences are obvious. That's how much people hate rolling releases ("software as a service") and other crap W10 brought. Most are just forced to use in Windows land.

            You can't make this stuff up. Statistics speak for themselves.

            Rolling releases are stupid and only a minority of users like it (they're made, like most shit, to make life easier on the devs/maintainers, but NO USER GIVES A SHIT OF THAT). Get over it.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by rabcor View Post

              It's time to admit that high stability at the price of massively outdated software, is a niche solution, and too high a price to pay for most modern PC users.
              Most PC users are not hardcore gamers. A lot are not even casual gamers.

              One of the biggest issues I have with the people for whom I've provided a Linux installation is getting them to let me update their *buntu LTS distribution before it goes out of support and stops receiving security updates after four or five years. These people don't tend to do any serious gaming. Most people don't want to change anything unless they have a problem.

              Casual gamers are often content with the latest LTS release of Ubuntu, as long as they don't have hardware that is too new for it to be supported.

              Hardcore gamers are the most likely to update everything to the latest release or be on a rolling distribution. Hardcore Linux gamers are not a common thing.

              I sometimes maintain a rolling distribution somewhere, but I'm usually too lazy to bother. The most likely reason for me to upgrade further than the most recent LTS is because my hardware is too new for it to be supported, or supported well, by that distribution.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by Michael View Post

                Both systems are the same...?
                Ram: 2x8gb ram vs 16gb
                Driver: 411.63 vs 410.57

                That's not the same

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Scellow View Post

                  Ram: 2x8gb ram vs 16gb
                  Driver: 411.63 vs 410.57

                  That's not the same
                  2 x 8 is 16... On Linux, I can only get the DIMM topology if running as root to access dmidecode, so user space processes can only report the overall RAM capacity. Where as under Windows, any process can nicely query it.That's what you see in the graph as it's all auto-collected; I wouldn't do something so stupid as to change out the RAM configuration during a test on the same system.

                  On the drivers, both releases are the latest NVIDIA Windows/Linux drivers. There is never a Windows/Linux NVIDIA driver release at the same exact version number.
                  Michael Larabel
                  http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                    Except it's not.

                    Ah here come the rolling release advocates who think their minority point of view is the majority.

                    It's exactly the opposite. Rolling releases are not ok for most people. Where the fuck do you pull this kind of shit from? They have always been in the minority.

                    And yes it fucking happens on Windows, at least before W10, and guess which Windows version is still old as hell and 20 times more popular than Linux. The preferences are obvious. That's how much people hate rolling releases ("software as a service") and other crap W10 brought. Most are just forced to use in Windows land.

                    You can't make this stuff up. Statistics speak for themselves.

                    Rolling releases are stupid and only a minority of users like it (they're made, like most shit, to make life easier on the devs/maintainers, but NO USER GIVES A SHIT OF THAT). Get over it.
                    Lol, you're calling over 90% of PC users a 'minority'? please... You're forgetting to include users of other operating systems in your calculations bro. Every windows user, e.g. the vast majority of PC users, are used to rolling release. And once you get used to rolling release, nobody wants to go back to outdated crap.

                    Originally posted by CFWhitman View Post

                    Most PC users are not hardcore gamers. A lot are not even casual gamers.

                    One of the biggest issues I have with the people for whom I've provided a Linux installation is getting them to let me update their *buntu LTS distribution before it goes out of support and stops receiving security updates after four or five years. These people don't tend to do any serious gaming. Most people don't want to change anything unless they have a problem.

                    Casual gamers are often content with the latest LTS release of Ubuntu, as long as they don't have hardware that is too new for it to be supported.

                    Hardcore gamers are the most likely to update everything to the latest release or be on a rolling distribution. Hardcore Linux gamers are not a common thing.

                    I sometimes maintain a rolling distribution somewhere, but I'm usually too lazy to bother. The most likely reason for me to upgrade further than the most recent LTS is because my hardware is too new for it to be supported, or supported well, by that distribution.
                    I never said it was just gamers who want up to date software, I said it was 'most modern PC users' and meant it. Artists want the latest versions of their drawing software, video editors want the latest editing software, programmers want the latest Libraries and IDEs, musicians want the latest sound editing software versions... Etc. Everyone wants to have the latest version of shit, especially if they're using it professionally, and nearly without exception if they have already grown used to it, you say a lot of people are content with having outdated software, I would argue that they are also complacent. Also, don't forget, rolling releases still get an LTS kernel option; which is the most important element for a stable linux based OS in general.

                    Sure, if all you use your computer for is web browsing, it might not be that important to have the latest version of your browser, and yeah, maybe not for music players either. But as soon as you do anything else on your computer, even if it's just watching videos, you're gonna see improvements from the latest versions of your video player, even if it's just better support for various formats. You 'can' just use VLC which 'usually' works, but if you want to squeeze the most quality you can get out of your videos, you're gonna need mpv and you're gonna need to tweak it's options quite a bit, and you're gonna need a recent version to get the latest features such as motion interpolation. Most people sure, may be unaware of that, but that makes them complacent and ignorant more than content, even if they are indeed content, they're only content because they don't know better.

                    The same principle applies for various other things, new features to libreoffice, to krita/gimp/other painting software, speed improvements, bug fixes (bug fixes in particular will be most common, there's a decent chance that the latest version of your outdated software has had some bug that's bothering you fixed for a long while but you don't have access to the bug fix because you don't have access to the latest stable version) and of course, drivers. Even with all the things I've mentioned, every single point I've mentioned affects me, personally, how many points do you think I'm missing that would affect others who do different things?

                    Basically, if you have a reason to use something more advanced than ChromeOS, you're almost definitely missing out on something that would be important to you if you're not using a rolling release system. And my point is, that anyone who doesn't want to be missing out on that important shit, needs rolling release.
                    Last edited by rabcor; 09-28-2018, 11:01 AM.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by rabcor View Post
                      Lol, you're calling over 90% of PC users a 'minority'? please... You're forgetting to include users of other operating systems in your calculations bro. Every windows user, e.g. the vast majority of PC users, are used to rolling release. And once you get used to rolling release, nobody wants to go back to outdated crap.
                      How the fuck is Windows a rolling release when it has multiple different versions co-existing right now and "supported"? You can update Windows 7 without "upgrading" to Windows 10 (but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS).

                      It is literally like I said: It's exactly the opposite of your bullshit. And even amongst Linux users, rolling release idiots are the minority.

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