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  • #11
    Originally posted by _ONH_ View Post
    duby229
    A foot around here had more than 15 different lengths. If one makes a standard it is irrelevant if it is a foot or a meter. 1/16 inch is not more precise since each object has production tolerances higher than the difference to 2 similar mm measurement in with 2 digit.
    To ad to it many male can measure 1m (real foot avg. 10 in in us) more accurate without tools then 1 yard (3 imp foot @ 12 in). With about <1 in to 6 in difference (act vs real ft) while 1 yard is 10% shorter.
    If you need a ruler to measure, the scale used gets irrelevant.
    Therefore int. science standards makes it worldwide comprehensive for worldwide audience.
    I think you have that opinion because that's what you are familiar with since childhood. I have mine because that's what I've been familiar with since childhood.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
      Just because you have ten fingers doesn't make it the natural base system. That was nothing more than a quirk of evolution, in fact the very first quadrupeds had many, many more digits than that. You can call it abnormal, but the real actual truth is that base ten numbering systems are actually what's abnormal. Think about it, for many thousands of years -nobody- used base ten numbering systems, and it's really easy to understand why, other than the number of your fingers, there isn't anything that is naturally base ten. You are just simply used to thinking in tens, because that's what you were taught as a child and it means nothing more than that.
      Are you somehow implying that USA measurement system is more intuitive than metric?
      Because it is not. You can call your unit of lenght "foot" but it's not a foot, or "inch" and it is not an inch because there is variance between people. For example my "foot" isn't 30 cm, nor my thumb is 2.5 cm.

      All measurement systems are arbitrary, main thing that matters is standardizing them.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        I think you have that opinion because that's what you are familiar with since childhood. I have mine because that's what I've been familiar with since childhood.
        I'm familiar with both since childhood as I played D&D with english books so measurements were Imperial, not metric.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          How much can you fit in a ship hull,
          Maybe because the cargo holds were designed to hold X units of your own measurement unit?

          how wide does a road need to be,
          Since when roads are sized on measurement units and not on actual usage? If you need to support cars with a certain size then the road will be bigger, if not, it will be smaller.

          How much liquid weight can fit in a barrel,
          Maybe because the barrel was designed to fit X liquid weight of your own measurement unit?

          Besides, the imperial measurements are actually more accurate. 1/16th of an inch is more precise than you can get with metric tools.
          I always thought that the measurement precision depended from the tool.

          Anything where it matters has to be measured by caliper, as it sees stuff that is so small that you could not read on a scale on a normal instrument.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
            Are you somehow implying that USA measurement system is more intuitive than metric?
            Because it is not. You can call your unit of lenght "foot" but it's not a foot, or "inch" and it is not an inch because there is variance between people. For example my "foot" isn't 30 cm, nor my thumb is 2.5 cm.

            All measurement systems are arbitrary, main thing that matters is standardizing them.
            Not really, What I mean and didn't articulate well is that it depends on what you can recognize. And that comes from experience. I have a lifetime with one system and you have a lifetime with another. I'm clumsy as hell with metric and comfortable with imperial. You are probably the opposite due to your experiences. I got my wrenches and sockets in both, and a tape with both, but the imperial just makes more sense to me.

            EDIT: Yeah, At least as long as my grandfather's toolset the imperial measures have been standardized. I can tell you that for damn sure because I still have it. I don't know what you guys keep insisting it isn't standardized, because it in fact has been at least as long as it's mattered.

            EDIT: At least on the tape I have, there are more notches for the imperial measure than metric. That's what I should have said in the first place. I think I extrapolated too far, my bad on that. It just means the particular tape I own is more accurate with imperial than with metric, but it doesn't mean that imperial is more precise. My bad.
            Last edited by duby229; 07-22-2017, 05:16 AM.

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            • #16
              I grew up in the transition period here. I learned Imperial first and then in grade 4 they switched to Metric and at first I was pretty annoyed but then it made sense. I still think in pounds, oz, cups, pints, gallons, and inches, feet, yards, miles, acres when it comes to most day-to-day things. I have tools for both systems. I use the imperial more because more products I interact with are measured in imperial. When I work with computers and bicycles I generally use metric but there's still plenty of imperial bits on bicycles. When I talk with my friends about anything scientific, I switch into metric without batting an eyelash.

              But if someone states their weight in stones, they're a walking talking anachronism lol.

              Between my friends, fever is measured in Fahrenheit, but we agree the weather temperature is definitely in Centrigrade and rain is in mm, but we still expect the wind in Knots!

              Nod to @Duby re: the markings on all tape measures I've ever seen. When working with wood I'm working in inches due to materials and building code, but even if it was all metric I'd still pick imperial when I'm measuring something to cut to fit because the tape gives more accuracy there. Of course, a sheet of cardboard and a pencil beats the tape and gives precision as good as the operator ;-)
              Last edited by linuxgeex; 07-22-2017, 05:47 AM.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                Not really, What I mean and didn't articulate well is that it depends on what you can recognize. And that comes from experience. I have a lifetime with one system and you have a lifetime with another. I'm clumsy as hell with metric and comfortable with imperial. You are probably the opposite due to your experiences. I got my wrenches and sockets in both, and a tape with both, but the imperial just makes more sense to me.
                I already said that I use both due to various reasons, and I have no issues in either because of my past (and current) D&D experiences.

                Neither makes difference to me, it's all arbitrary anyway. If you have issues switching is just because you lack mental plasticity, or because you don't know the other well enough.

                EDIT: Yeah, At least as long as my grandfather's toolset the imperial measures have been standardized.
                How come they aren't standard here in EU then?

                Metric is worldwide standard (an actual standard), imperial is a local standard (something that should not exist anymore as there are worldwide standards now).

                EDIT: At least on the tape I have, there are more notches for the imperial measure than metric.
                FYI: I don't know that tape so take this as general information, but 1/16th of an inch is around 1.5mm, and even common cheap metric rulers here have 1mm notches.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  I already said that I use both due to various reasons, and I have no issues in either because of my past (and current) D&D experiences.

                  Neither makes difference to me, it's all arbitrary anyway. If you have issues switching is just because you lack mental plasticity, or because you don't know the other well enough.

                  How come they aren't standard here in EU then?

                  Metric is worldwide standard (an actual standard), imperial is a local standard (something that should not exist anymore as there are worldwide standards now).

                  FYI: I don't know that tape so take this as general information, but 1/16th of an inch is around 1.5mm, and even common cheap metric rulers here have 1mm notches.
                  So it's your way or the highway? Argghh! The only thing you said there that I disagree with is that metric should be worldwide. Sure it might only take a generation or two for people to transition, but how many trillions of dollars do you think it cost? I'm sure plenty of EU countries have the figures on how much it cost them.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                    Phoronix: StarTech 12U Computer Rack

                    In needing to make more room for Ryzen/Epyc/ThreadRipper and Core-X Series, the StarTech 12U rack was the latest investment. This 12U rack can, fortunately, fit quite comfortable under my custom-made desk.

                    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=24968
                    I have 4 concerns here: (1) heat & cooling, (2) noise from the servers, (3) power draw, and (4) WAF

                    Positioning a rack with servers under a desk may lead to "thermal issues" as I suspect the air flow of those cases will be "front to back"... with the "back" being under the desk. Yes, the desk does have an "open structure" to it, but still, the laws of physics say that heat wants to rise.

                    Then there is the related cooling considerations. Server heat can be nice/helpful in the winter, but it's probably more costly than most conventional heating sources, while server heat is a hassle in a hot summer. If this office area is on the south or west side of the house, radiant solar energy through any windows will only compound the cooling issues. Window tinting can help offset some of that "radiant heating".

                    The issue of noise is subjective; some don't care either way and others complain about every squeak. My video camera server (running 24x7) is located in a spacious laundry room so I don't have to hear the case fans at 3000+ rpm, but those fans do keep that CPU and it's related HDD nice and cool so the tradeoff is acceptable.

                    Power draw can always be an issue if the house electrical circuits are not up to the job. In this case I think 1 or more dedicated AC circuits (15A-20A 120VAC) would be appropriate in this area for these server racks. I believe Michael has already shared some thoughts with us in other forum posts on the monthly electrical consumption at "Chez Phoronix". I wonder if his local zoning laws/codes allow solar or wind power generation on his property to help offset some of that cost.

                    As for having lots of "industrial looking gear" in a public space in the home, I think that is rather uncommon for most of us. My "married friends" tell me all about their challenges of doing or not doing computer stuff in ways that help them avoid a constant commentary from the wife about it; that's WAF in a nutshell. I'm not sure which is worse: constant fan noise or constant commentary from the wife.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                      Just because you have ten fingers doesn't make it the natural base system. That was nothing more than a quirk of evolution, in fact the very first quadrupeds had many, many more digits than that. You can call it abnormal, but the real actual truth is that base ten numbering systems are actually what's abnormal. Think about it, for many thousands of years -nobody- used base ten numbering systems, and it's really easy to understand why, other than the number of your fingers, there isn't anything that is naturally base ten. You are just simply used to thinking in tens, because that's what you were taught as a child and it means nothing more than that.
                      Someone actually thought and designed the metric system, it's much more logical than imperial.
                      How many inches is a fot?, how many fot is a yard?,....
                      In metric there is only one unit for length, the meter. To make it easier to use in different scenarios prefixes are used, millimeter etc. so it's much easier to convert.
                      Even more beautiful is that weight and volume can be tied in (at least for water at room temperature). 1 liter == 1kg == 1dmĀ³

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