Razer Comes Up With An Interesting Modular PC

[rohcQaH]

Interesting, especially connecting RAM over PCIe.

Yeah, about that..

First off, you would need 10-15 PCIe lanes to cover the bandwidth of a single DIMM (more in DualChannel or TripleChannel configurations). Combine that with 4-way SLI, and you'll run out of PCIe lanes pretty soon. I haven't seen any system with 100+ PCIe lanes yet, at least not in the consumer market.

Second, PCIe Latency is horrible. The biggest performance hit today's CPUs take are cache misses, because the CPU will have to idle a hundred cycles until new data arrives. Going through a PCIe link increases that latency by a factor of around 5.


So they boast about 4way SLI, but don't allow SLI Bridges, which are critical to performance on highend GPUs.

They add RAM that has latencies like it's 1995.

And for all that they need a PCIe chip that either doesn't exist, or is a specialized piece for server hardware with a massive price tag.


Until I see more than render graphics, I consider this system to be vaporware.

[tomtomme]

If this is built for the unskilled consumer, then they are not going to get very far with it. If the consumer is unskilled then he is probably not a hardcore gamer, so chances are he's not going to fork over a few thousand dollars for a gaming rig that will also chain him to Razer (I doubt "Factory overclocked components with liquid cooling" are user replaceable). If he IS a hardcore gamer, then he probably knows how to set up his own rigs and customize them per his needs, even if it involves liquid cooling rigs. And it really is easy to assemble a PC from scratch these days. I really can't see how they hope to market this. And when you get a new module, do you get the whole module package and trade-in the old one?

I also can't imagine why a gamer would need RAID 5. So that levels load up in 18 instead of 20 seconds? Enormous DLC packages and patches? Archiving of epic headshot clips or monumental pwnage?

Maybe there is a market for some hardcore developers (CAD, raytracing, game / medicine / math / geo-science stuff).
Cause they make often use of CUDA / OpenCL / RAID on big workstations - and in addition they often do NOT have a clue about hardware. At least in the science field I used to work in. But then again there is the obviously design targeted to hardcore gamers... and if workstations are targeted they would need extensive linux-support / knowledge and setups with dual-CPUs....

cheers tomme

[tomtomme]

Yeah, about that..

First off, you would need 10-15 PCIe lanes to cover the bandwidth of a single DIMM (more in DualChannel or TripleChannel configurations). Combine that with 4-way SLI, and you'll run out of PCIe lanes pretty soon. I haven't seen any system with 100+ PCIe lanes yet, at least not in the consumer market.

Second, PCIe Latency is horrible. The biggest performance hit today's CPUs take are cache misses, because the CPU will have to idle a hundred cycles until new data arrives. Going through a PCIe link increases that latency by a factor of around 5.


So they boast about 4way SLI, but don't allow SLI Bridges, which are critical to performance on highend GPUs.

They add RAM that has latencies like it's 1995.

And for all that they need a PCIe chip that either doesn't exist, or is a specialized piece for server hardware with a massive price tag.


Until I see more than render graphics, I consider this system to be vaporware.

Is it possible that they use something else to connect the cpu/ram to the rest? I know that AMD uses HyperTransportProtocol - what does intel use? But then the slots must be different from the PCIe slots and it will not be that flexible anymore....

[YoungManKlaus]

You'd be surprised what you could mess up. A friend of mine tried to build a PC a few weeks ago, and they not only forgot to install the CPU before installing the heatsink, they forgot to take off the plastic socket cover that has REMOVE written on it, and couldn't figure out why the heat sink wouldn't fit.

as i said, cpu installation is the only really "hard" part (as you have to look pretty carefully which way around to put it in, that the heatsink is on correctly, and so on.

They also used the wrong screws in several places which partially stripped the threads.

Inability to correctly use screws has nothing to do with pc building but is a general uber-fail

But well, I am an engineer, I am open-minded about stuff and ... you know ... generally know when I am screwing up royally. It seems most people a) shut down their brain as soon as anything tech-looking comes along, and b) then go ahead with the biggest confidence even though all signs indicate that they are terribly wrong.

[nils_]

Is it possible that they use something else to connect the cpu/ram to the rest? I know that AMD uses HyperTransportProtocol - what does intel use? But then the slots must be different from the PCIe slots and it will not be that flexible anymore....

Intel has QPI (Quickpath Interconnect). I would think the system would consist of one Motherboard+CPU+RAM module and they'll only attach storage and GPUs by PCIe. Everything else isn't really possible with current commodity hardware anyways.

[erendorn]

as i said, cpu installation is the only really "hard" part (as you have to look pretty carefully which way around to put it in, that the heatsink is on correctly, and so on.
Inability to correctly use screws has nothing to do with pc building but is a general uber-fail

But then, this design does not use screws, so inability to correctly use screws has everything to do with PC building when comparing with this system.

In any case, I do think that building PCs is very easy, at least for anybody that has used basic tools at least once in its life.
The hard part is actually selecting components. What ram format to buy? what chipset in the MB? ATX, ITX, micro, mini? what socket, for what CPU? what are the differences between the 20 different intel boxed CPU (do I need VT-x?)? How do I choose my PSU? do I need PCI or PCI-e for my sound/wifi card? etc...
My father in-law needed a new PC, so I selected a list of components for him. I'm pretty sure (or, well, I hope ) that he'll be able to assemble that himself, but it would have taken ages for him to come up with that list (and not forget, say, the molex to floppy cable for the sound card).

Providing a list of modular parts whose compatibility is ensured by the seller really makes a difference for people not into system building.

[curaga]

It seems it would be easy to break. Doesn't seem stable either, unless the base has a lot of weight: cat touches it -> tower falls over -> crash and burn.

[Sonadow]

But then, this design does not use screws, so inability to correctly use screws has everything to do with PC building when comparing with this system.

In any case, I do think that building PCs is very easy, at least for anybody that has used basic tools at least once in its life.
The hard part is actually selecting components.

Sometimes just thinking simple makes everything much easier.

What ram format to buy?

I reaaaally don't believe there's anything outside of DDR3 for commodity PCs today now that hardware using DDR2 are all but obsoleted by vendors

]what chipset in the MB?

For Intel:

Overlocking / enthusiast? Z-series.

Anything else: H series

I'm not up to snuff with regards to AMD's chipsets

ATX, ITX, micro, mini?

Up to personal preferences

what socket, for what CPU?

Most shops sell a CPU together with the board as a bundle.

what are the differences between the 20 different intel boxed CPU (do I need VT-x?)?

Generally, if someone needs to ask whether they need something, they almost definitely don't need it.

How do I choose my PSU?

Got dedicated graphics card? > 600w

< 500w sufficient for everything else

do I need PCI or PCI-e for my sound/wifi card?

Many gamers don't even use dedicated sound cards.

USB WiFi is everywhere (and is totally not a problem under Windows)


.

[rohcQaH]

Is it possible that they use something else to connect the cpu/ram to the rest? I know that AMD uses HyperTransportProtocol - what does intel use?

Nope, HT connects CPUs to other CPUs and the IO bus. Memory is directly connected to the in-CPU memory controller.

On most consumer CPUs, the integrated memory controller can only address 4 memory slots.

So you could route those 4 memory slots to 4 different modules, which would lead to the following restrictions:
* only 4 module ports can support ram. You cannot just add ram whereever you like.
* DualChannel is out, unless you manage to plug two compatible ram modules into the correct slots.
* the conductor paths from CPU to Memory are pretty sensitive to lengths. Routing them into different slots some 40cm away from the CPU is a technical hurdle I'm not sure they can overcome.

So that isn't viable, either.



nils_ suggested that CPU + Memory would be combined into a single module, but that would pretty much kill the point of a modular system, wouldn't it?
It's possible that module slot A is always CPU and the nearby module slot B is always memory, but even that is less modular than regular PCs - instead of adding ram, you have to replace all of it.



In either case, in the end you'll have an overpriced system with a very limited component choice and some untenable performance penalties (SLI Bridges), where you can easily add GPUs and Hard Drives. Which isn't too complicated in a regular computer, either.

And your upgrade path ends at DDR4 Ram or PCIe4 anyway.

[GreatEmerald]

Got dedicated graphics card? > 600w

< 500w sufficient for everything else

That's pretty lame advice. My Corsair CX430M (430 W) does not agree with you (I use a GTX 660 and also a dedicated sound card, plus a quad-core Ivy Bridge i5). Wattage is not very relevant, it's the rails and component quality that does matter.