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Windows 8 Hardware Has Another Problem For Linux

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  • #51
    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    And you can. Just turn off Secure Boot.

    The thing that currently annoys me the most about Secure Boot is that it's difficult to fork distribution kernels now. I needed to do that for debugging purposes lately, and I had to edit the spec files for a while to disable the signing mechanism. Without that the fork just wouldn't build. I don't have Secure Boot to begin with, so signing the kernel is utterly useless to me, so this feels like a pointless hindrance at this point...
    Is it not possible (I don't know how) to add your own signing key to the list of keys that Secure Boot will accept? It adds another stage to the kernel-building process, but it would mean you can keep Secure Boot enabled.

    NB: no idea how this works in practice, I don't roll my own kernels or delve into the depths of Secure Boot.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
      Huh? Nobody wastes money on burning optical disks when its easier, cheaper, and faster, to dd the iso to an sdcard or usb stick and go. Looks like the new trick will be to pull the disk and fix it first.

      Oh, also, if it is impossible to bypass the EULA, then it isn't legally binding. I don't think that it is legally binding to begin with, in any case, since it isn't actually an agreement, its just a stupid button you need to press.
      Not so fast...

      I've only ever done the USB stick thing a few times, it's faster to burn a 4GB ISO to DVD that to a stick over USB2.

      Yes, I have some USB3 ports, but the stick is for me rather dodo-like, and I can't justify buying a USB3 memory stick: if I need to move large files about I use the internet not the sneakernet.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Luke View Post
        If you are after a laptop, consider buying a Chromebook.
        A subsidised ARM-based Samsung one with built-in 3G is the next item on my shopping list.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          And you can. Just turn off Secure Boot.

          The thing that currently annoys me the most about Secure Boot is that it's difficult to fork distribution kernels now. I needed to do that for debugging purposes lately, and I had to edit the spec files for a while to disable the signing mechanism. Without that the fork just wouldn't build. I don't have Secure Boot to begin with, so signing the kernel is utterly useless to me, so this feels like a pointless hindrance at this point...
          It's not a pointless hindrance if you are Microsoft.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by Luke View Post
            If you are after a laptop, consider buying a Chromebook.
            Originally posted by Luke View Post
            Never buy crap with soldered down HDDs or SDDs,
            Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
            A subsidised ARM-based Samsung one with built-in 3G is the next item on my shopping list.
            Unfortunately both the best-selling Samsung Series 3 Chromebook and the high-end Chromebook Pixel come with flash memory and RAM soldered onboard.

            So your choice is between the Acer and the HP Chromebook (or the old Samsung Series 5, but IIRC that is out of production now). Lenovo markets their Chromebook only to the education sector.
            Originally posted by archibald View Post
            Is it not possible (I don't know how) to add your own signing key to the list of keys that Secure Boot will accept?
            Yes, that is possible. Unfortunately the way to do this differs between vendors. According to GregKH, any efforts to standardize some kind of UI for adding keys were stopped dead.

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            • #56
              Mandatory EULA is unprovable when off the network

              Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
              That's not the issue here... The issue is that you are forced to accept the Windows EULA no matter what. You can't access the UEFI menu in any way before pressing the accept button. Otherwise it's all good, once you have access to the UEFI options, you can just as easily switch fast boot off.
              So long as you are able to get far enough to get to the UEFI menu even if Windoze cannot access a network, you can make it impossible to prove you ever "accepted" the EULA. That means there's nothing MS can do when you go back on the "agreement" and do all the shit they don't like, as they can't proved you didn't get into the UEFI by some other, maybe even previously unknown means. I suggest a secure erase of the entire disk, just in case.

              If MS decides to prevent UEFI menu access until they DO get a phone home, that would mean their next step could be to change the EULA to prohibit changing the OS, on the grounds that the OS and machine were a "bundle" and you agreed to a contract. Next would be RIAA style legal harasment. That would continue until some court, probably in Europe, ruled the bundling illegal.

              Sorry Microsoft, I won't buy anything bundled with Windoze 8 knowing this, not while used pre-Windoze 8 laptops, Chromebooks, or parts to build desktops remain available new or used. No, I don't own or want a smartphone or tablet, too few you can ever trust.

              One other point about buying used: someone else may have accepted the EULA, but you never did.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by brosis View Post
                Until "Personal Computer" has a definition and specification, that is officially backed-up by a law, we will have this problem over and over again.
                Or Linux users should just unite, lay-out a spec and contact specific manufacturers to create "Personal Computer".

                I see only these two options. Linux has 5% of desktop exactly because we waste time and they dictate the conditions.

                I also suggest everyone running non-microsoft on notebook or workstation in public place print and attach this sticker (BY-CC):

                You don't advocate anti-something, it is unconstructive. Instead, promote your favourite OS. I could use some Ubuntu stickers for example.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                  As for the restore disc, there is no need for one. Having tested a fresh Win 8 install from the install DVD, i can confirm that the second you install Windows 8, Windows automatically creates a hidden restore partition that can be used to reformat the computer and reinstall itself if the need arises. Really, the installer DVD is quite redundant after the install process is completed. In the event that the restore/refresh process requires you to provide the install DVD, it will have automatically configured the firmware to allow booting from optical media prior to the reboot.
                  Are you sure it creates a hidden restore partition? Every time I've installed it, it's only created the EFI boot partition (not a restore partition) and the main partition.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
                    You don't advocate anti-something, it is unconstructive. Instead, promote your favourite OS. I could use some Ubuntu stickers for example.
                    Eh, just fuck off msoftie, its very constructive!

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by gigaplex View Post
                      Are you sure it creates a hidden restore partition? Every time I've installed it, it's only created the EFI boot partition (not a restore partition) and the main partition.
                      I believe so. This is from my 5 yr old notebook running Windows 8 (obviously no EFI during that time):





                      Since this machine clearly doesn't have UEFI that partition cannot be an EFI system partition (not to mention that I understand that EFI system partitions must be formatted as FAT32 and not NTFS). Furthermore, I performed a 'Refresh My PC' operation on this notebook once just to play with the feature and it did not ask me to provide the Win8 DVD for the restore operation. Based on this I am of the idea that this partition stores, at least, something that is related to the restore operations offered by Windows 8.
                      Last edited by Sonadow; 29 May 2013, 10:31 PM.

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