Linux Adding Leakshield Driver Support For Reporting Liquid Cooling System Leaks

[oiaohm]

As already stated, Noctua NH-D15.

Noctua NH-D15 it out performed by ice giant and the server rack-mounted equal. Yes there are server rackmount using the same kind of features as the icegiant using a phase change fluid using gravity return from radiator with solid metal pipes these are custom made for server rack-mount cases.

As for GPUs, the ATX add-on card specification has long since been inadequate (especially since they do not even use full length cards), but no GPU manufacturer wants to be the first one to jump.

No there is something wrong here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...ress_(standard).

https://www.voice-boards.com/dialogic-card-length/

PCI/PCIe Full-Length 111.15 × 312.00 × 20.32 is the size the card per slot is meant to be inside. 12.5 inch/ 312.00mm length is exceed by many modern day GPUs exceed the PCI Full-lengh max allowed size..
ISA card full length 13.5 inchs or 342.9mm. Yes they are still inside the ISA max size.

Something important full length ISA card is meant to have end support so it does not bend most modern GPU don't come with end support .

ATX by specification add-in card can be ISA or PCI/PCIe dimensions. PCI/PCIe no end support and should not need end support should be required if specifications obeyed with card constructed right and ISA for full length cards by specification should have end support to prevent bending.

Yes ISA standard card is meant to have a bracket on both ends.

Lots of GPU are too long for PCI/PCIe standard and missing bracket to be ISA standard so too short in length to ISA and too tall for both standards.

.It would be nice of GPU would be to either PCI/PCIe or ISA size standards not the current half way between they currently are..

[Vaporeon]

As already stated, Noctua NH-D15.

As for GPUs, the ATX add-on card specification has long since been inadequate (especially since they do not even use full length cards), but no GPU manufacturer wants to be the first one to jump.

[oiaohm]

I mean liquid cooling is superior to air cooling its just that if you have a standard/typical desktop CPU, its usually not necessary because you don't need to move that much thermal energy and hence a high end Noctua fan often does the job. However once you start getting top end consumer CPU sku/dual GPU territory and higher you end up seeing the benefits of the liquid cooling more and more.

This is a common mistake is that liquid cooling is superior to air cooling. Air cooling is not all the same things and liquid cooling is not a superior as many think.
https://www.icegiantcooling.com/ and airjet are two of the higher performing air cooling solutions.

Heatpipes are phase change cooling. What ice giant does is phase change cooling with massive improvement still using fans. High end Noctua heatsinks still depend on heat pipes with hot enough CPU you exceed the heat pipe transfer limit this is why items like the ice-giant exist.

Of course the lack of pump in the Ice-giant means you have less points of failure than AIO. The sealed copper of the icegiant you don't have the leak problem that AIO have.

.Linus tech tips put the icegiant heat to head with liquid cooling AIO the horrible point is that the icegiant out performed the AIOs including the largest ones on the market. So non custom solutions there is always some form of air cooler that kicks liquid cooling tail.

Yes there was attempted todo phase change cooling like the icegiant in a AIO form factor they all run into the same problem flexible pipes end up with too much gas leakage leading to lack of liquid inside the cooler(basically leaking in the other direction to a normal water based AIO ).

Custom liquid/water cooling is way simpler the design is very forgiving. Like you cannot go and do a custom loop based on icegiant tech. Yes there is immersion phase change solutions out there they perform better than your general liquid cooling they are also not suitable for home use.

Yes your highend consumer CPUs can be cooled by the highest end air cooler being the ice-giant better than your water based AIOs.

High-end servers end up using phase change immersion cooling. Liquid/water cooling as you mind range when noise with air cooling comes too much of a problem. Heat pipe and ice-giant like Air cooling in servers that need high uptime due to the high reliability.

The benefits of custom liquid cooling is that it is fairly simple to increase radiator size including put it outside case if required to get fresh cool air that does not make it superior to air cooling. Yes the benefit to increase radiator size with need does not exist with the AIOs or items like ice-giant.

[Teggs]

This is what they do in a server system, https://www.wiredzone.com/shop/produ...6-216-213-4809

I am aware of these solutions. Because an unknown Threadripper system was in play, and people do put Threadrippers in standard desktop towers (even one built for Greg Kroah-Hartman), I thought I'd pipe up. But it seems that zexelon is all over the possibilities.

[mdedetrich]

I mean liquid cooling is superior to air cooling its just that if you have a standard/typical desktop CPU, its usually not necessary because you don't need to move that much thermal energy and hence a high end Noctua fan often does the job. However once you start getting top end consumer CPU sku/dual GPU territory and higher you end up seeing the benefits of the liquid cooling more and more. I mean we have Intel CPU's taking 300+ watts alone now, that generates a lot of heat.

[oiaohm]

Take my home gaming PC, when I bought the case it came with two fans, one in the front and one in the rear and that setup with a Wraith cooler on the CPU was just fine with my old RX 580. The 6700 XT I upgraded to blocked a significant amount of airflow from the stock front fan which lead to over heating and thermal shutdowns.

The sad part is the 6700XT and RX680 heatsinks are over 3 times the size it need to be if most effective technology could be used..

You think you are not brute forcing this the problem is you are. Look at the airjet https://www.froresystems.com/ These has between 3 to 10 times better heat remove than our current fan based systems. Airjet increases the airspeed until you break the boundary layer that preventing heat from being abstracted.

Think about it Skeevy420 if you only need to move 1/3 to 1/10 the amount of air to get the same amount of cooling. The setup you described would be closer to 1/10 effectiveness vs theoretical best at heat removal.

Airjet gets inside 0.01 percent of the theoretical best.

"laws of thermal dynamics" the reality is current fan based air-based and water based cooling are not designed to make the most out of thermal dynamics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_boundary_layer_thickness_and_shape

Thermal boundary this part of thermal dynamics that works against cooling with air and water. Increase flow velocity the lower the resistance to heat transfer. As you noted increasing airspeed with fans you run into growing noise problem. Airjet increase the velocity in compact unit to the ideal.

Heat pipes and other phase change parts are close to 98% effective at moving heat this is well better than the 1/3 to 1/10 of the fin stack connected to them. Immersion cooling phase change liquids are popular from effectiveness point of view.

Water cooling custom or AIO hits the Thermal boundary layer problem twice once on the radiator and once on the blocks connected to what ever you are attempting to cool.

This is the sad part we have been brute forcing PC cooling for a long time. skeevy420 you are not seeing that your cooling solution is 3 to 10 times larger than it in fact needs to be by theory and by what airjet products prove. Air cooling with the parts you have in theory could work with low noise in a ultra compact case but you would have to stop using fans and instead use something like the airjets that can generate high speed air that gets past the thermal boundary problem without generating massive amounts of noise.

Noise from a fan majority is turbulence not the movement of air in the intended direction/required direction for cooling.

airjet only 3 times better than the server air cooling the ones that run air at 4x the speed of what you PC fans can do and also generate like 90DB of noise. Yes gaming laptops generating 60-70 db of noise are in fact on the low noise side. This is why it 3-10 your PC is closer to 10 more effective to use something designed like the airjet..

Servers are going liquid cooling not because they cannot make fan base air cooling work with enough brute force its that once you get to that level of brute force it generating so much noise it comes impossible to put your workers in enough hearing protection to be safe.

The annoying part is we most likely have another 20 years of fan based cooling ahead of use to to the company behind airjet patents. Same problem we have had with AIO having pumps on the CPU block.

[skeevy420]

Air cooling like it nor that is brute forcing the problem.

That's funny because you started with:

Ducting with fans does work up to a point as long as you have the airflow space and you are not trying to melt the earth..

The reality is it depends on how you design your system, if you're trying to cram too much stuff in too small of a space, and what kinds of systems we're talking about; like how the most badass home gaming PC needs less cooling resources than a 4 CPU server board in a room with 40 of those servers. At some point we transition from utilizing air effectively to brute forcing air through a case.

Take my home gaming PC, when I bought the case it came with two fans, one in the front and one in the rear and that setup with a Wraith cooler on the CPU was just fine with my old RX 580. The 6700 XT I upgraded to blocked a significant amount of airflow from the stock front fan which lead to over heating and thermal shutdowns. That's when I upgraded and put in three more case fans - a 2nd front intake, a side intake, and a 2nd rear exhaust. The kicker is adding more fans made it so I could run my fans at less RPMs so my system is now quieter and cooler. I'd have added a bottom exhaust but I didn't buy a modular power supply and I have to tuck my excess, unused, cables somewhere...

I'm not sure if what I did would be considered brute forcing or not. I don't consider it brute forcing. I consider it utilizing air effectively. Yeah, I added more fans to move more air through the system, but at the same time I turned all my fan RPMs down to make it quieter since I'm fine with the system running upwards of 65-70C at load. 5 case fans at 30% capacity instead of 2 at 100% capacity. I could actually brute force more air through my system and knock the temps down another 10-15C. It's just loud and annoying so I don't. IMHO, that would be brute forcing air, not utilizing air effectively.

I'm using a Coolermaster N200 Micro-ATX. Any smaller of a case/form factor and I don't think low-noise effective air cooling would necessarily work as well or at all for me and my parts. I intentionally picked micro-ATX as the smallest I'd go for this exact reason since any smaller and you're forced into running your traditional fan setup at the extreme, you have to pick low-performance parts, or you have to spend a lot more on liquid cooling. That's what happens when you try to cram too much into a small space and violate the laws of thermal dynamics.

[oiaohm]

I have seen a few demonstrations of ducting air to the desired part, and it worked well in all cases (pun intended, I guess). I suppose at least one of your GPUs would be difficult to feed, wedged up against the other, but it could work well for your CPU and second card, if you aren't doing that now. It would take some effort and parts cost to set up, but maybe the gain would be enough that you didn't feel the need for water.

System 76's larger Thelio cases come to mind as a 'professional' implementation, as the second picture on this page demonstrates. If I recall, they use blower cards for that reason.

Ducting with fans does work up to a point as long as you have the airflow space and you are not trying to melt the earth..

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ROMED4ID-2T#Specifications

Yes people talk about the thread ripper. Server side ITX EPIC does exist.

Laptops, high density servers and people attempting to stuff the most powerful computer in to the smallest possible case all end in melt the earth problem where there is too much heat for fans, fins and air ducting to deal with.

https://www.froresystems.com/

The airjet tech by this company can transfer more heat into the air than old school cooling fans can but they are not scaled up enough for custom build or server systems yet.

Air cooling using fan and fins run into the same problem this has hard limit limited efficiency. Water/liquid cooling allows larger cooling area but don't solve the basic problem. The basic problem is the thermal boundary layer this limits how much heat can be transferred into air by fan and fins this is 30% cap on how much heat from the surface area can be transferred out by the fins. Airjet is interesting it tech breaks the boundary layer allowing 100 percent to be transferred to the air.

Of course Airjet as it scales up there are now other problems. CPU/GPU running at 85C with a AIrjet tech does result in the air out of it being 85C so ducting to mix the outflow with other air so it remains safe.

That said I know of a large number of servers in one of the data centers here that moved over to liquid cooling the rack mount units because of the GPU heat load!

https://lenovopress.lenovo.com/lp0636-thinksystem-sd650-direct-water-cooled-server-xeon-sp-gen-1

It not just GPU heat load. Quad CPU systems in 1U also come next to impossible to cool.by air these days.

Airjet tech long term might be able to best water cooling in consumer market. Server market where you want to get the heat out the building water cooling for different uses will remain.

Also do note with fan based air cooling GPU are getting insanely heavy. Think GPU can be 1/3 of the weight to get the same cooling by having increased cooling efficiency but then you can have very hot air to deal with or you water cool to have that mass off the motherboard.

Something that is not considered is the heavier the heat-sink solution inside a PC not mounted to the case the more likely it to be damaged in transport if the packing is not exactly right.

AIO do in theory and practice have a serous advantage when it comes loss mass inside case. Issue is lack of safety features two should be there.
1) flow sensor to detect failed pump/blocked pipes.
2) pressure sensor to detect if critical leak has happened. AIO are filled with negative pressure think tamper seal on jar(you know the one that pops up when you open jar) those are also packed under negative pressure.

Without the pump running new AIO that is not massive damaged will not leak its internal water at any major speed. Yes rainy weather more risk to computer than the AIO liquid when the negative pressure is there. Problem current AIOs you cannot tell when they have lost their negative pressure.

Another trap about current AIO is they all leak air in. So all current AIO have X number of years until they lose their negative pressure and come risk to leak without pump running with user having no way to know this has happened.. So all AIO after X years of use should be reporting critical leak has happened.

This is the problem water cooling does not have to be that dangerous. Early PC water cooling was very much use random parts with no safety features AIO are still lacking safety features. Most people doing videos online how to build a water cooling loop don't have the safety features.

When it comes to water cooling for most of consumer PC we are still in the first car made level of safety features. Yes the first car had breaks you could no trust and steering that was questionable. Air cooling like it nor that is brute forcing the problem.

[zexelon]

I have seen a few demonstrations of ducting air to the desired part, and it worked well in all cases (pun intended, I guess). I suppose at least one of your GPUs would be difficult to feed, wedged up against the other, but it could work well for your CPU and second card, if you aren't doing that now. It would take some effort and parts cost to set up, but maybe the gain would be enough that you didn't feel the need for water.

System 76's larger Thelio cases come to mind as a 'professional' implementation, as the second picture on this page demonstrates. If I recall, they use blower cards for that reason.

Yes, air cooling can do some impressive things... with enough mass flow. 1U rack mount servers these days sound like turbine engines under load (and the fans spin pretty close to the same RPM!).

The Nvidia server GPUs are an example of this. Air cooled PCIe, but the blowers are built into the chassis. The key is they can be very loud, this is not a problem when its in a data center... more of an issue if its in a dev machine in an office.

That said I know of a large number of servers in one of the data centers here that moved over to liquid cooling the rack mount units because of the GPU heat load!

[Jonjolt]

I have seen a few demonstrations of ducting air to the desired part, and it worked well in all cases (pun intended, I guess). I suppose at least one of your GPUs would be difficult to feed, wedged up against the other, but it could work well for your CPU and second card, if you aren't doing that now. It would take some effort and parts cost to set up, but maybe the gain would be enough that you didn't feel the need for water.

This is what they do in a server system, https://www.wiredzone.com/shop/produ...6-216-213-4809