Raspberry Pi Supply Chain Issues Beginning To Ease Up

[mangeek]

...I'd expect the next iteration to come with 16 to 32 gigs of RAM. RPi just needs to strike first. There are rumors about a 32GB Orange Pi 5. RPi needs to launch it first. It needs faster IO. Again I'd expect 10 Gbps LAN. People need at least 10 Gbps LAN + WAN ports for routing internet traffics. Preferably a CM5 carrier board with a 4 or 8-port 10 Gbps programmable switch. Better DAC. USB4. A PCIe 5.0 4x slot.

Uhh, that all sounds like dramatically more than what Raspberry Pi users want. I think the best seller of the RPI4 is the 4GB model,the 400 also has 4GB. It's not supposed to be a killer PC replacement, a high-throughput router, or anything like that; it's a sub-$100 hobbyist board for tinkering and education that is beefy enough to run a basic GUI so it can be friendly.

That said, I do wish they sold a 'premium' product line that wasn't so focused on low cost, perhaps profits from it could subsidize the lower-end models and give them some breathing room in the budget to adopt newer cores or (gasp) break from Broadcom/VideoCore.

[qarium]

I recall the RPI using an older process node than the typical Cortex-A72's 16nm. Would it have been possible for RPI to work with Broadcom to do a 'refresh' of the BCM2711 that was on a less congested manufacturing node, or is that a huge lift?

If they shrank the CPU core, could they put 8GB RAM in the package? Seems like that would cut down on parts... I'd have paid a premium for that, but I wasn't willing to pay scalper prices for the same metal.

the Rockchip RK3588 is made in Samsung? 8LPP ("8 nm")

[jaxa]

the Rockchip RK3588 is made in Samsung? 8LPP ("8 nm")

And Pi 4's BCM2711 is made on 28nm.

If they stick with quad-core Cortex-A75, they might not need a node shrink, but everyone will be disappointed. On the other hand it would be unprecedented for them to switch to a smaller node after just one product, and such a long time on 40nm (Pi 1-3). But they are a mature company now so who knows.

[qarium]

And Pi 4's BCM2711 is made on 28nm.
If they stick with quad-core Cortex-A75, they might not need a node shrink, but everyone will be disappointed. On the other hand it would be unprecedented for them to switch to a smaller node after just one product, and such a long time on 40nm (Pi 1-3). But they are a mature company now so who knows.

i am already disappointed the pi400 did never come in 8gb ram version...
pi4 all versiony in my point of view lag of ram and performance.
its to slow for me for any usercases..
the pi in the past was only successfull with 40nm and 28nm because of the lag of competition.

the 8gb ram version of the rock 5 is only 223€

https://shop.maker-store.de/5740/rock-5-model-b-8gb-rk3588-quad-core-a76-2.4ghz-quad-core-a55-1.8ghz-mali-g610mp4-gpu-up-to-5-cha

they want 176€ for a pi4 =? hell no... the rock 5 for 223€ is a much better deal.

[mangeek]

they want 176€ for a pi4 =? hell no... the rock 5 for 223€ is a much better deal.

The Pi4 is usually $55-$75, its the market conditions running the price up, the folks making it -don't- want it to cost $175. The manufacturer prices are great for what it is and what it's designed for, and these $150-$300 boards that kick its butt are different products for different markets (though, as stated, I think the RPI folks are leaving money on the table by not offering a high-end variant for folks like you and I).

[coder]

It's just good enough (barely) to run a GUI on, and firefox is so painfully slow that it acts like a kind of digital-media-detox incentive

You can get this same effect on a PC. Just use a motherboard that has an ASPEED BMC, and use that for your video out!

The only small chinks in the armour are NVME support (but I suppose that would be expensive),

Check out the Orange Pi 5. It has a much faster SoC and a PCIe 2.0 M.2 slot that I think is only x2. Still, that's a peak theoretical speed of 1 GB/s, which should be fine for such a machine.

http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWar...ange-Pi-5.html

The Orange Pi 5's current preorder price is only $83, for the 8 GB version.

also I hope their relationship with ARM is not so strong as to preclude them from exploring a RISC V version at some stage.

Doubt it. Being UK-based, there's going to be some natural sympathy and collaboration with ARM. However, the more dominant relationship is probably their Broadcom partnership.

Right now, I see the VideoCore GPU as being a weaker link than the ARM CPU cores, and that's unlikely to change as long as they keep using Broadcom SoCs. But I think Broadcom is now basically making SoCs specifically targeted at the Pi.

[coder]

I think the best way to bring down RPi prices is simply to buy a option from the competition.

That will indeed work, but only by virtue reducing demand on the Pi's supply chain! The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a not-for-profit enterprise. As long as they're able to satisfy demand, I think that's all they really care about.

ARM on Linux cannot be kept hostage of the RPi.

It's not, obviously. As a matter of fact, HardKernel was building their ODROID ARM-based SBCs, even before the Pi came onto the scene. Sadly, they've gotten away from using phone SoCs, I guess because those are now too expensive. Still, they represent a better value and provide better performance & efficiency than the Pi.

Unfortunately, there tend to be more issues on hardware from most of the alternative manufacturers. The user experience on the Pi is best, due to it having the largest user community. Kind of like running a mainstream distro on a standard desktop PC at least a couple years old -- usually, stuff just works.

[coder]

Well, considering the RPi series was never meant to be used as a cheap desktop computer,

That's not true, depending on your definition of a "desktop computer". It was made for the express purpose of getting kids into coding, which I don't see how you do without attaching a keyboard and monitor. It had a Debian-based distro since day 1, which included a web browser.

The RPi was originally intended for educational purposes and hobbyists.

All of the hobbyist and embedded stuff people did with the Pi was extra, as far as its creators were concerned. That wasn't their primary userbase or application. The Pi Foundation's mandate was hewn from the same tree as OLPC.

As for the Pi 4, its support for dual 4k monitors was expressly based on the expectation of the Pi being used as a desktop machine. Of its dual HDMI ports, Eben Upton simply noted that dual-monitor seems a common setup for many developers.

I get the impression Broadcom's GPUs are probably in the best shape for Linux,

Perhaps, if you restrict yourself to in-tree drivers and SoC graphics. But, not if you'd consider using the proprietary drivers or use an ARM machine with a PCIe slot where you can install an AMD or Nvidia dGPU.

at least if the Ethernet isn't a limiting factor.

The Pi 4 can actually hit (near) Gigabit speeds. It was the Pi 3 which was limited to like 300 Mbps... and that's still fast enough for most HTPC use.

[coder]

ARMs own GPUs also all run with open drivers,

ARM's own drivers are not open source. If you use the open source drivers, for a Mali GPU, be prepared for less functionality and performance. For instance the Panfrost driver supports only up to OpenGL 3.1.

https://mesamatrix.net/

[coder]

I really want to see lower-cost, lower-power, lower-resource usage computers become more prevalent. And they will. I'd like to see good enough for general purpose task computing that most people do. Might need a "good enough" GPU with open source drivers so that web browsers and videos work smooth enough.

You don't even need to use an ARM-based machine for that. Intel's Jasper Lake is much faster than a Pi, yet can still be passively cooled. It shares the same iGPU and drivers as its mainstream desktop counterparts.

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h3/

We are getting to a point where good-enough hardware should be sufficient for many years and doesn't need to be "massively overblown" to provide good enough performance for the needs of a large portions of average computing needs out there.

At home, I'm mostly still using Sandybridge machines from 10+ years ago.