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SilverStone TP04 M.2 SSD Cooling

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  • #11
    When I see this thick pads, I always doubt that their thermal conductivity is good.

    Of course you need a product specifically made for your drive, but a design that allowa to use thin applied thermal paste should cool the drive much better.
    At least it is better with the cooler than without.


    Thanks for the test Michael.

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    • #12
      Nice to see a cooling pad is actually keeping things cool, but Michael why not address the connecting and even more important question: is it relevant for performance? This article is just addressing half of the problem when reviewing a cooling device, while you obviously have all the data to address it. If I try to check-out the test profile I can't really see anything since it does not seem to be available: https://openbenchmarking.org/result/...B-SABRENTTE17& . Maybe an idea for a follow-up article, or are you at liberty to share also the performance results of the temperature runs?

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      • #13
        Originally posted by DanL View Post

        You forgot the NB/SB chipset. Nvidia found a way to make the chipset so hot, it needed active cooling.
        I'm still waiting for someone to build a case with an AC fan.
        If you really believe, that "AC fan" will help in cooling, than please learn basics of physics: law of conservation of energy at least
        Then learn how AC works, and you, suddenly,will find out, that using AC in cooling something does not make any sense.

        But...
        If you disagree, then I would suggest you patent your AC based cooling system for semiconductors in consumer electronics, and then make money on your AC cooling and make others happy.

        Comment


        • #14
          I thought that if you cool the flash memory when writing to it, it degrades faster. That's what the experts say, flash cells want to be hot when they are written. So I didn't install my mainboard's M.2 heatsink.

          Comment


          • #15
            Originally posted by RealNC View Post
            I thought that if you cool the flash memory when writing to it, it degrades faster. That's what the experts say, flash cells want to be hot when they are written. So I didn't install my mainboard's M.2 heatsink.
            Wait, what?
            Is there any research out there?

            Comment


            • #16
              Originally posted by RedEyed View Post
              Wait, what?
              Is there any research out there?
              This goes back to 2012:

              https://arstechnica.com/science/2012...-lives-longer/

              Now almost 10 years later, I've heard some storage gurus (Allyn Malventano comes to mind) claim that cooling only the controller of an SSD is a good idea, rather than also cooling the NAND flash cells. Cooling those can be detrimental to the SSD's lifespan.

              In this video:

              Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


              The following was said:

              JEDEC rates client SSDs with an operating temperature of 40C. If you force the flash down closer to room temperature (25C), then with the same amount of writing (done at that lower temperature) the end of life data retention time will be cut in half. An M.2 SSD without a heatsink will naturally rise above ambient. Same goes with SSDs with heat spreaders / heat spreading labels (they just spread the heat more evenly, which is actually better for endurance since the flash will also run slightly warmer even while idle).

              Now for the heatsink / water block problem. The goal of these items is to prevent thermal throttling during heavy use but that is a controller issue, not a flash issue (flash loves to be hot while operating - specifically during writes as that is what causes the wear). Where the heatsink / block makers get this wrong is having the thermal pad contact the flash. We want it to only contact the controller. Yes, the overall temp will still run lower (less controller heat conducting to the flash while idle), but at least during heavy writes, the flash will be able to rise closer to its preferred temperature without the heatsink actively pulling it back down to ambient.

              This is far less of a concern for a showpiece system that is rarely writing, but I would still recommend trimming the thermal pad so that it only contacts the controller.
              However, I don't think the placement of the SSD's controller is standardized? So it seems it's not possible to manufacture M.2 heatsinks that only cool the controller. The heatsinks would need to be specific to each M.2 SSD model. I don't know if that's true though.

              Anyway, it seems to me that you need to make a decision. Cool the SSD and potentially get a lower lifespan, or don't cool it and potentially get thermal throttling from the controller during long/sustained write operations. In my case, I don't do sustained I/O operations on my SSD, so it seems the wise choice is to run it without a heatsink.

              Another mentioned issue I came across on the web with M.2 heatsinks is that some of them, or perhaps depending on your SSD, they cool the top side of it, but the underside gets much worse. And there's no way to really tell. You know what, overall, it just seems the whole M.2 heatsink business is a clusterfuck anyway. So I choose to not participate. When I see "M.2 heatsink" somewhere, my brain now equates it to "gaming chair". No, thanks.
              Last edited by RealNC; 16 August 2021, 08:07 AM.

              Comment


              • #17
                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                This goes back to 2012:

                https://arstechnica.com/science/2012...-lives-longer/

                Now almost 10 years later, I've heard some storage gurus (Allyn Malventano comes to mind) claim that cooling only the controller of an SSD is a good idea, rather than also cooling the NAND flash cells. Cooling those can be detrimental to the SSD's lifespan.

                In this video:

                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


                The following was said:



                However, I don't think the placement of the SSD's controller is standardized? So it seems it's not possible to manufacture M.2 heatsinks that only cool the controller. The heatsinks would need to be specific to each M.2 SSD model. I don't know if that's true though.

                Anyway, it seems to me that you need to make a decision. Cool the SSD and potentially get a lower lifespan, or don't cool it and potentially get thermal throttling from the controller during long/sustained write operations. In my case, I don't do sustained I/O operations on my SSD, so it seems the wise choice is to run it without a heatsink.

                Another mentioned issue I came across on the web with M.2 heatsinks is that some of them, or perhaps depending on your SSD, they cool the top side of it, but the underside gets much worse. And there's no way to really tell. You know what, overall, it just seems the whole M.2 heatsink business is a clusterfuck anyway. So I choose to not participate. When I see "M.2 heatsink" somewhere, my brain now equates it to "gaming chair". No, thanks.
                Thank you for sharing information!

                After reading the source article, they are operating of 250-800 °C temperature range, which has nothing in common to normal room temperature.
                I tend to believe more to research papers with experiments and comparisons, instead of any kind of "guru/expert" w/o providing any valuable experiment results.

                Modern memory and CPU are very complex semiconductor schemes, so I would only rely on the end user specification, If I'm not an expert in that area and there is no good research with experiments to reference on.

                So, if specification says, that operating temperature range in 0 - 70 ℃ and I don't go over that range, than I don't need any extra radiators.
                But, if throttling happen too often in work scenario, I would place a radiator.

                Anyway, I agree with your statement: "When I see "M.2 heatsink" somewhere, my brain now equates it to "gaming chair". No, thanks."
                Last edited by RedEyed; 16 August 2021, 08:26 AM.

                Comment


                • #18
                  Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                  I thought that if you cool the flash memory when writing to it, it degrades faster. That's what the experts say, flash cells want to be hot when they are written. So I didn't install my mainboard's M.2 heatsink.
                  I imagine that if you cut the heatsink's thermalpad to only cover the SSD controller, you can cool only it, letting the memories alone.

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Originally posted by RedEyed View Post

                    Anyway, I agree with your statement: "When I see "M.2 heatsink" somewhere, my brain now equates it to "gaming chair". No, thanks."
                    I got a gaming chair for my birthday last year. It didn't make it to my birthday this year. About two weeks ago I was leaning back watching TV and the cheap ass particle board in the chair the stand was bolted to broke and I almost put my head through a wall.

                    I'm going to turn it into a flight sim cockpit whenever my rudder and stick arrive....well, that's if I can get it back from the kitty Cinder I rescued Saturday. She's 1 and the sweetest cat around. Really shy and nervous, but she's coming around.



                    I also rescued Poppy. She's 5 months and a terrorist. Her and Sparky are already playing together and she's having a blast.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by danmcgrew View Post

                      "Sorry, Charlie"...

                      This has to be one of the most transparent pieces of fabricated personal opinion published here in a looooong time.

                      This doesn't even make for a great 'sound bite'. It DOES make for a great piece of total lack of understanding of basic science and engineering; in particular--semiconductor physics. I'm calling HORSE-S**T on this one, unless and until you can provide valid proof from a very valid source. Sources which promote 'channeling', ear-candling, crystal-healing, and homeopathy are not considered valid.

                      Where did you EVER hear, or read of, ANY semiconductor "liking heat", and performing worse when cooled (down) from a higher temperature. Do you understand the basics of semiconductor physics? Do you know that all semiconductor leakage current, of every semiconductor (germanium, silicon, gallium arsenide, silicon carbide...), INCREASES with increasing temperature?

                      In whose catalog can one find semiconductor heaters? On the next page right after semiconductor cooling devices? Or before? If what you say is true, someone, somewhere, absolutely must sell semiconductor heaters.

                      We ALL are eagerly awaiting validation and verification of this statement of yours.

                      You have my best wishes for providing a large dose of very good, valid, and well-documented information.


                      "Anyone here who believes in psychokinesis, raise my hand."--anon
                      Well that was lots of text where "citation needed" would suffice. Now it looks like I got the controller and the NAND reversed, it's the controller that needs cooling while the NANDS like it hotter.


                      The conventional wisdom is that if you have a computer, you wanna keep it as cool as possible, and this has spawned an enormous industry dedicated to drawing the heat away from important components li...

                      I have an Adata XPG SP8000 plugged into the third and last slot on my motherboard and this thing is running at like 10c-15c, which is not normal at all because when it was in my old PC, it ran around 40c's... Via CrystalDisk I used to get read and write speeds of around 3000+, now the speeds I'm ...

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