Creative sucks
I turned by back on them long ago.
First they made really nice HW. 486 times.
Later I had severe issues with the SB Live and Creative didn't care a bit about it, though it was at least 50% their fault. Still it was an bearable situation.
Then I heard about that issue with these XFI Cards, already working with both Linux and Windows on my boxes. During that period onboard chips had become already good enough to work with them, and furthermore I noticed that most soundcard vendors used the same chips anyway (this is a thing Linux definitely taught me - different vendors, different names, but at the end it is the same chip inside), so why buy an expensive card that often just uses the same RTLxxxx, CMI, VIA or whatever chips?
At the moment I'm quite happy with my onboard stuff which is fine enough. Okay, I'm not into professional sound/music production but then you have other vendors than Creative (if their HW is useful for prof. purposes anyway).
And it all works out of the box with the in-kernel ALSA drivers. The W32 part of my systems works with them as well, so I can't complain.
I still wonder why Creative show such a fubared state of mind. I mean they were slapped in the face by Vista/Microsoft with all their EAX and stuff and they still refuse to support alternative systems in any way. But they could really score here, esp. since market for dedicated cards is shrinking all the time. (Same goes for VIA tech with their CPUs and chipsets, but at least they installed Harald Welte so it can only become better in the future.)
I just don't understand their behaviour.
Well, but that wouldn't be the first enterprise that is being smashed down the abyss by management (note management, not engineers).
But they'll probably have to learn it the hard way. I'm just sorry for the engineers when Creative goes bankrupt one day.
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Originally posted by pfunkman View PostIf you want to hurt a company and steer people away from it point out the real things they do wrong dont make stuff up as you go.
1. Buying out Aureal and killing off their A3D in favour of Creative's own totally inferior EAX.
2. Designing hardware so obtuse that nobody wants to touch it even with an open driver to look at.
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I use an X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatality edition and it's not bad with OSS. I use OSS 4.2 that I got from mercurial and it does work. The Sound Quality is pretty decent.
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Huh. The X-Fi 5.1 Surround (USB) seems to work really with with PulseAudio. I even have 5.1 working. I'm just having problems getting PulseAudio to send it 24-bit samples.
EDIT: Yes, I realize mine has a different interface than other X-Fi's.
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Whats annoying is that everytime creative is mentioned on a linux forum the ignorant masses have to chime in making stupid claims about thier products and how inferior they are.
Anyone with a 4th grade reading level and 5 minutes to google can tell you that the Xfi is superior to onboard in just about every single way possible (Except price really). The Xfi was the best all around option for even casual gamers because it povides above average sound quality in music and movies and the gaming quality and performance is second to none. Which really makes it the best of both worlds for gamers that want good sound quality in thier movies and music as well.
Obviously there are plenty of better choices for just music and movies but there is no better option if you want the gaming performance and quality as well.
Trash creative for thier abysmal customer service and thier many driver problems but people coming to these threads going on about how thier products offer nothing over onboard really just make themselves look like ignorant fools and are counterproductive to what thier trying to do.
If you want to hurt a company and steer people away from it point out the real things they do wrong dont make stuff up as you go.
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Originally posted by cruiseoveride View PostI dont get all the fuss over this crap.
Its not like Creative is the only sound card manufacturer? Actually they're one of the worst at the moment. The old emu101 had hardware mixing at least.
Consumer Cards
- Asus
- TerraTec
- Probably a lot more el-cheapo stuff you find on ebay even
Amateur
- M-Audio
- E-MU (Creative owned)
Semi-Pro to Pro
- RME
- Echo Corp
- MOTU
- Lexicon
^^^ all that works on Linux (even the pro cards). Either through ALSA or through FFADO (alsa for fw cards)
You've got to be really thick to go out and buy Creative hardware.
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Originally posted by Jimmy View PostThe reason I don't use my on board sound is because it constantly generates noise from the other components of the motherboard. I don't get that with an actual sound card.
Sound systems integrated with motherboards may have the same capabilities, but they simply are not of the same quality.
I'm not some audiophile freak. I'll fail at telling the difference between an MP3 recorded at a low bit rate vs a high bit rate. I don't have to be a freak to hear noise coming out of my speakers when no sound should be coming out at all. I'm not talking about a hissing noise that can be fixed by adjusting volume levels and installing a filter... chirps and whizzing (which change with CPU load) should not be heard.
This has been the case with every onboard sound system I have ever owned.
Originally posted by RealNC View PostMany games do. Not 4096, those are *software* mixed. It's 128 hardware-mixed channels. Most games are using about 60 channels, but with on-board, they trim down to 20 (on-board can't do more than 24 software channels) and this results in problems. Some sounds disappear or simply don't sound as intended.
It's not a big deal, but you asked what those cards have that the on-board doesn't. And I answered. Whether you want that or not is your decision. I don't have an X-Fi either. I'm on a cheap SB Live 24-bit that also lacks hardware mixing. But in contrast to on-board sound, it has Windows drivers that don't suck (64 software channels instead of the 24 of on-board drivers). In some games (like Colin McRae Rally 2005, Assassin's Creed, Gears of War, Oblivion) playing with the on-board chip (some Intel HD compatible thingy, forgot the brand, and a realtec AC97 on my older board) was no good. There was sound stutter, crackling, sound lag, and other artifacts. With Creative's drivers, all is perfect
Originally posted by SarahKH View PostI'd argue that they aren't. What exactly does the creative product do that the AC97 on a modern mobo doesn't? Hardware handoff? Does that. Surround? Does that, take your pick on the flavour (3+x3.5mm, SP/DIF, TOSLink). Generic PCM out? Yep. Audio in? Be a poor sound device if it didn't. Welded to the PCI bus? Yep.
I've played games on the onboard sound device since my XP 1700+ (before then even I can't remember when I ditched the AWE32) and I honestly couldn't hear a difference. Guns go bang, positional audio works and no, I've never, ever, EVER seen even a 1fps difference between onboard and no sound at all. Headsets have worked fine again, with no appriciable difference between using one and not in terms of FPS.
Creative is a monopoly because you think they are. Which is what they want you to think so you can go and buy the new "Fatl1ty spells gud edition" device.
In windows of course, theres EAX which does make a big difference in games. EAX 2 even more. Without it, the games are not really being played the way they should be.
Regarding that. I wonder why a hardware sound card like Aureal hasn't showed up. Those cards where amazing. But they died I never bought one but when seeing one of those beauties in action they make EAX look like a cheap hack. EAX is just like a filter applied to audio in real time (through the mixer) much like a photoshop filter. Where as Aureal 3D was able to process the sound based on geometry in the game engine. Maybe unless video cards can start doing that, that kind of stuff is like comparing real time ray tracing to static light mapping.Last edited by b15hop; 25 March 2009, 11:13 PM.
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Originally posted by SarahKH View PostWhat exactly does the creative product do that the AC97 on a modern mobo doesn't?
Sound systems integrated with motherboards may have the same capabilities, but they simply are not of the same quality.
I'm not some audiophile freak. I'll fail at telling the difference between an MP3 recorded at a low bit rate vs a high bit rate. I don't have to be a freak to hear noise coming out of my speakers when no sound should be coming out at all. I'm not talking about a hissing noise that can be fixed by adjusting volume levels and installing a filter... chirps and whizzing (which change with CPU load) should not be heard.
This has been the case with every onboard sound system I have ever owned.
That said, Creative should burn in hell because even their Windows software sucks. Not to mention the hate I have for their webcams... again their software sucks. Just another hardware co that can't follow through with software to properly support their hardware.
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Many games do. Not 4096, those are *software* mixed. It's 128 hardware-mixed channels. Most games are using about 60 channels, but with on-board, they trim down to 20 (on-board can't do more than 24 software channels) and this results in problems. Some sounds disappear or simply don't sound as intended.
It's not a big deal, but you asked what those cards have that the on-board doesn't. And I answered. Whether you want that or not is your decision. I don't have an X-Fi either. I'm on a cheap SB Live 24-bit that also lacks hardware mixing. But in contrast to on-board sound, it has Windows drivers that don't suck (64 software channels instead of the 24 of on-board drivers). In some games (like Colin McRae Rally 2005, Assassin's Creed, Gears of War, Oblivion) playing with the on-board chip (some Intel HD compatible thingy, forgot the brand, and a realtec AC97 on my older board) was no good. There was sound stutter, crackling, sound lag, and other artifacts. With Creative's drivers, all is perfect
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