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Jon Masters Leaving NUVIA, Returning To Red Hat

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  • #11
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    They have an architecture license, and the core design is their own. They are like Via and x86 processors. No matter how Intel would like to revoke the license for it (and also for AMD), they can't do that. Unless ARM-NVIDIA starts outcompeting them (and it's unlikely, given how ARM designs have always sucked for high performance applications), they will have nothing to fear in case of such an acquisition.
    Intel invented Itanium to get rid of the licensees - it didn't work out as planned. But what if Nvidia-ARM comes with a new instruction set (ARMv9 or ARMv10) and ends its licensing business alltogether with these to keep the architecture to themselves?

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    • #12
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      They have an architecture license, and the core design is their own. They are like Via and x86 processors. No matter how Intel would like to revoke the license for it (and also for AMD), they can't do that.

      Unless ARM-NVIDIA starts outcompeting them (and it's unlikely, given how ARM designs have always sucked for high performance applications), they will have nothing to fear in case of such an acquisition.
      Ah. Tnx for explaining. I guess you're right. But aren't a lot of them built from a base ARM design? A76 etc.
      If they can't get a next gen base design, do they have the muscle to create a new one from scratch?

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      • #13
        Originally posted by ms178 View Post
        what if Nvidia-ARM comes with a new instruction set (ARMv9 or ARMv10) and ends its licensing business alltogether with these to keep the architecture to themselves?
        How can they keep the arch to themselves if they sold perpetual arch licenses already?
        NUVIA, Amazon, Apple all have added their own new instructions to their ARM CPUs already, and others like Marvell and Qualcomm (and other 8 or so big companies involved in ARM) also have the perpetual arch license even if they are mostly just using licensed cores in their products.

        If they go with a new NVIDIA-only instruction set, it's going to start an instruction set competition between a bunch of large companies and it would eventually end up with someone winning and becoming a standard (aka like AMD with 64bit instruction set back in the day), not necessarily NVIDIA since they would be new to the game, and ARM itself sucks at designing high performance CPU cores.
        Last edited by starshipeleven; 09-05-2020, 09:56 AM.

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        • #14
          .. how beautiful these old days were, when you could experiment in your garage and have the possibility of becoming a great corporation thanks to the prestige of your wits ..

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          • #15
            Jon probably realized that Apple's A14 SoC that's coming out in October for the iPhone and iPad and the higher performance version of the A14 for the first ARM powered Macbook would already be 90% of the performance delta of Nuvia's chip at a fraction of the cost.

            Plus the future is ARM on Mac and Windows. Jon probably wants to continue helping Red Hat/IBM make ARM the future of Linux which will have a bigger impact that a Silicon Valley "Unicorn" like Nuvia. I wish Nuvia well. The more ARM and its ISA is pushed and refined the better at breaking the ever more stale and rickety x86 hegemony so we can FINALLY get A.I. driven Silicon in our hardware that's BOTH powerful AND power efficient. You're never getting both with x86. Never.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by nokipaike View Post
              .. how beautiful these old days were, when you could experiment in your garage and have the possibility of becoming a great corporation thanks to the prestige of your wits ..
              Yeah, 1800's were sure great like that

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              • #17
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Unless ARM-NVIDIA starts outcompeting them (and it's unlikely, given how ARM designs have always sucked for high performance applications), they will have nothing to fear in case of such an acquisition.
                That isn't true - Graviton 2, Cortex-A77, A78 and X1 have shown huge performance gains in recent years. Cortex-X1 has similar single-threaded performance as A13 according to AnandTech. And performance is also close to the 4.7GHz 3950X.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
                  Jon probably realized that Apple's A14 SoC that's coming out in October for the iPhone and iPad and the higher performance version of the A14 for the first ARM powered Macbook would already be 90% of the performance delta of Nuvia's chip at a fraction of the cost.
                  Lol if you think an iPhone/Pad device with a 5w tops thermal budget can compete in any way shape or form with a performance chip for servers that has at least 100w if not more, you are an apple fanboi.

                  Plus the future is ARM on Mac and Windows. Jon probably wants to continue helping Red Hat/IBM make ARM the future of Linux which will have a bigger impact that a Silicon Valley "Unicorn" like Nuvia. I wish Nuvia well. The more ARM and its ISA is pushed and refined the better at breaking the ever more stale and rickety x86 hegemony
                  NUVIA is making ARM CPUs, how can Linux have a future in ARM if there is no ARM hardware available?
                  You think Apple will lend their ARM design to anyone? When in the whole history of Apple they did something like that.

                  so we can FINALLY get A.I. driven Silicon in our hardware
                  Yes, make Silicon Great Again.
                  What the fuck does "AI-driven silicon" mean? Did you eat a bunch of businness slides to impress management with big words?
                  that's BOTH powerful AND power efficient. You're never getting both with x86. Never.
                  So far some specific Arm designs have only barely come to match x86 in performance, and we are talking of Intel chips, not AMD's.

                  It's far from over, so quit bullshitting with this propaganda.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Lol if you think an iPhone/Pad device with a 5w tops thermal budget can compete in any way shape or form with a performance chip for servers that has at least 100w if not more, you are an apple fanboi.

                    NUVIA is making ARM CPUs, how can Linux have a future in ARM if there is no ARM hardware available?
                    You think Apple will lend their ARM design to anyone? When in the whole history of Apple they did something like that.

                    Yes, make Silicon Great Again.
                    What the fuck does "AI-driven silicon" mean? Did you eat a bunch of businness slides to impress management with big words?
                    So far some specific Arm designs have only barely come to match x86 in performance, and we are talking of Intel chips, not AMD's.

                    It's far from over, so quit bullshitting with this propaganda.

                    LOL...can ALWAYS count on starSUCKeleven to shitpost his enormous ignorance of tech and silicon trends masked behind arrogance and self perceived knowledge. Much like the present day President of the United States.

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                    • #20
                      I like all the delusional shills on here who think that John Masters abandoning Nuvia right now to go back to Red Hat means that Nuvia "won" and that he's some sort of pro-Nuvia secret agent working inside of Red Hat... yeah that's a great way to end up in prison for industrial espionage. Good to know who the kids living in mom's basement are who've never held a job in the real world.

                      The fact is that Marvell just took its miraculous arm server chips off the general market and will only push them to custom niches, which might make them some money but is never going to take over the world. Nuvia has lots of powerpoints but no real performance numbers to back them up outside of geekbench.

                      John Masters leaving Nuvia doesn't mean that ARM in servers is dead but it sure doesn't mean that Nuvia is guaranteed to take over the world... and if it does then Nuvia is boned because Jim Keller -- who has a hell of a better reputation in chip design vs. a software guy like Masters -- left Intel.

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