Originally posted by brent
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Raspberry Pi Announces The $50 High Quality Camera
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Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
There are many options, for many years now. Most DSLR manufacturers offer an SDK where you can attach to a regular PC via USB cable, and then control the camera via software. My company writes software that utilizes this functionality and we've been doing it since 2007. I have a dozen different Canon DSLR's at work that I can stick on a tripod and control with my keyboard and mouse. Nothing new about it.
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Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
Still you have to ask what is the actual results those 108 megapixel cameras can deliver, especially under varying photographic conditions. It is really the end result that counts.
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Originally posted by uid313 View PostWell maybe he was thinking about webcams for streaming and videoconferencing. Most webcams are very poor and seem to have technology from the 90s. It is like 0.3 megapixel sensors and 720p at only 24 or 30 fps.
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Originally posted by Dehir View PostDoes anyone with knowledge have any idea is the lense/optics good enough to use/build microscope for smd soldering example?
Now can I recommend a Trinocular microscope not off the top of head and not really at all once you read this issues.
Its a pity this one disappeared due to USA tariff. As stated here you run into some problems. The trinocular port(where the camera connects) in different microscopes have many things wrong.
1) unstable rotation mount so any bump and you have you camera spinning/moving that really bad if you suffer from any form of motion sickness..
2) unstable focus mount so you are constantly fighting to keep the camera in focus.
3) Out of focus no matter what you do.
The Binocular part(where your eyes go) can have its own set problems with the eye pieces.
1) insanely expensive eye pieces or not replaceable at all eye pieces.
2) unstable eyepieces.
The unstable eyepieces mounts can be cause by revision or in cheap made ones cause by bad quality control on machining.
So far all the faults listed happen in the most expensive and the cheapest so price does not help to sort around these problems.
3) miss aligned eyepieces something you normally only find on the really cheap.
Please note I could recommend a model number of a microscope that does not have any of these problems and you get a different revision of the same microscope and the one you have has one if not all of the above faults on the version you get.
Like if you can go to a brick and mortar store so you can inspect before purchase this is the best. Yes before you got there you learn what you should be inspecting to make sure correct function.
If you cannot you will have to go by current reviews and pray they did not change it between the review you read and the shops stock you are buying from and that the person knew how to review all the parts properly.
The basics of course it has to be a Trinocular microscope that can be arm mounted and used with a front ring light so you can move around over PCB and of course light will not come though the PCB effectively.
As you can see getting a microscope for this work can be at times playing the loto. It really should not be but its the reality. Even those getting Trinocular for research work have the same problems and its why when you get a good one you will be like I will only loss this over my dead body.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View Posthttps://www.uctronics.com/index.php/...ra-module.html This is a price of a fixed 13MP focus for a raspberry pi yes around 50 dollars as well.
You can see how it compares to that arducam sensor specifications here: http://image-sensors-world.blogspot....tion-13mp.html
So cheaper and better. Both sensors are capable of auto focus btw, so not sure what you mean by fixed focus? The arducam you linked only mentions it as programmable and lacking support for things like 3A algorithms.
Note how, the arducam IMX135 doesn't have native linux driver with V4L2 support, the IMX214 does(assuming the linked store page info is out of date, the driver support arrived in late 2018): https://github.com/torvalds/linux/bl...a/i2c/imx214.c
They also offer m12 lens mount version for $3 more: https://store.pine64.org/?product=ro...unt-lens-model
Available at a cheaper rate on alibaba if you order enough(as low as $12): https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...784679018.html
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostThis RPi high quality camera is not what you would call a webcam class should come clear by the end of this section. CS mount means it not that you have 50 USD for the main part and 25 USD for the lens then the raspberry pi to drive it I would say you would use a 55 dollar raspberry pi 4 to drive it. You are looking at a 130 USD device without casing.
https://www.kurokesu.com/main/2016/0...ves-autofocus/
Now lets say we put a USD 50 to cs lens power drive so powered focus and zoom, Yes you have spent less than 200 USD dollars you can spend the difference on casing. One little catch here this solution will have more focus distance and zoom distance than fairly much all your webcams on the market.
For $76, that isn't all that bad of an example price wise(few comments indicate yellow tinge, so probably not a great buy). I'm sure if you look around though, you'll find plenty of other options, you don't have to just reference what RPi is offering. Why do you need a RPi 4 to drive this camera? A RPi Zero is probably plenty if we're talking about a DIY webcam here? Casing for such can be fairly cheap too.
Note, I've looked into the RPi lenses with the HQ cam and they affect the Field of View and output resolution, you don't get 12MP with either of them. The 6mm lens offers FoV of 63 @ 3MP, while the 16mm varies from ~20-45 degrees @ 10MP. The 6mm is intended for macro photography and the 16mm for long-range/zoom usage, so neither is particularly useful for webcam usage?
That gets clarified here(you could have a 12MP image, but quality degrades beyond the given range): https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/new...omment-1527959
Why are we bringing a motorized drive into this comparison and cost? It's a nice feature, but generally for a webcam, manual focus adjustment of the lens isn't a big deal due to typical usage, I've had products that required that in the past.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostBasically I see RPi high quality camera as in the entry level digital camera price range with changeable lens(this is a feature that normally does not exist this cheep). Yes for diy nature and cost of casing and the fact it still a compromise on image quality still a toss up if this is a good or bad idea. Webcam devices are not what RPi high quality camera competing with and are really not competitive against RPi high quality camera.
Happy to be corrected, but my understanding is that if a board has an ISP, it'll be more compatible with a variety of camera sensors(with the linux driver support), while those lacking it try to support specific sensors via GPU(or perhaps purely CPU software) drivers targeted to their devices. You can find quite a few boards that seem to only permit a selection of camera modules. With the Pi, and open-source nature, that might be wider if someone adds support for the modules, as seems to be what vendors like arducam do? (they also mention something about userland driver support and some gotcha with that on newer Pi hardware)
The Pi products are known to handle ISP via the GPU, and that apparently has some limitations (link also points out that they're still under NDA for quite a few things with the camera products they support): https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/v...c.php?t=109137
The RPi's are also only capable of 1080p streaming, not 4k(limit of their GPU h.264 encoder, that applies to RPi4 too):
https://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/r...ardware-limits
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/new-product-raspberry-pi-high-quality-camera-on-sale-now-at-50/#comment-1528003
So performance on the Pi products with the same sensors suffers, vs boards that can be found with dedicated ISPs that can handle dual 4k. Cost-wise, if you don't need 4k, perhaps a RPi Zero is a win with compatible cameras?
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostSomething to remember RPI high quality camera with the 25 dollar lens is going to be like 100mm deep at least yes the Logitech Brio is only 30mm deep so completely different class to webcam or camera in phone that extra physical distance in lens is what allows all the extra zoom and focus stuff. So it not a compact device once setup to function.
Lens wise, you could ditch the C/CS mounts for m12 if you want something not as deep? Although those appear to have same disadvantage at lowering effective resolution of the images, and cheap ones may not have glass optics afaik. T
he resolution quality seems to be defined as lines per millimetre (lp/mm), you can find the sensors value to match by taking it's pixel pitch/size value, such as the pi HQ cam 1.55 um, and multiply by 2, and divide that against 1000... or 500 / 1.55 == 322 lp/mm. Then I believe the lens will have it's lp/mm value rated for some specific sensor pixel pitch(some only mention a megapixels rating or lp/mm without additional details..), this Blaser lens for example is 230 lp/mm for 2.2 micron pixel pitch, which ends up being 5MP resolution, I think this math works 230/322 == 70%, 12MP * 70% == ~8MP, so you'd get 8MP instead of 5MP as good quality resolution/crop?
Authorized distributor of Basler C125-0818-5M 1/2.5" 8 mm 5 MegaPixel Lens. Low prices, expert design assistance, free product support.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostWhen it comes to optics RPi high quality camera with the lens mount is not taking a compromise in this department this is why comparing it to webcams and phone cameras will never work out right because they are simply in a different class due to the restricted depth requirement on webcams and phone cameras.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostThat not a sensor in that link that is a fairly limited lens. Welcome to china horrible listing they list the sensor the lens is for before the lens details. You to scroll down to the Product name bit "F1.8 4.4mm 100 degree m12 lens for 8k surveillance camera" sorry no sensor in that listing. Sensor costs more so does a decent quality lens.
$10-30 bare sensor: https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...855590419.html
Doesn't look like any modules are being sold atm, some claim to in their titles but then change the sensor in the details section..
There is the older IMX 214 mentioned earlier in this response for $12 in bulk:
Bare sensor for IMX219 (8MP Pi v2 cam) $1.25-2.80: https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...764947112.html
Not that I see those being particularly useful to anyone here, doubt any potential savings is worth the effort(I assume at that low of a component level, it'd need to go through some factory run anyhow).
Originally posted by oiaohm View Post13MP with fixed focus with processing on the RPi 3 have been done in the past for photogrammetry. This new camera would allow doing this stuff better due to being able to focus and zoom.
Will be good to see how third-party lenses pan out
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Originally posted by caligula View Post
Phone camera modules aren't that expensive, e.g. $34.95 for the SGS9 main camera: https://www.eetasia.com/18032605-gal...-bom-revealed/
This new Pi camera was apparently in the works for 3 years(the lens are custom designed for it apparently vs using an existing product).
Would be nice for more hand me downs on the sensor tech to be more usable for a hobbyist
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Originally posted by skeevy420 View PostYou seem to be knowledgeable on this subject
I'm just a hobbyist on a budget so I don't pay the nice cameras too much attention, I mentioned the Sony A7R IV because my photogrammetry buddies were quite excited about it when it was making the rounds. I'd like to do some DIY embedded stuff with the not so great image sensors/lenses, one day if I can afford to get a sweet DSLR, I will
Originally posted by skeevy420 View Postso do you mind answering a question? I'm considering spending the majority of my stimulus check on a decent camera, basically an $800+tax limit.
With that said do you think I should quit debating in my head and pick the newer K-70, the cheaper/older K-S2, or is there another camera in that price range you'd recommend?
https://www.imaging-resource.com/cam...s/pentax/k-70/
The K-70 seems nice, but not really worth over 1.5x the price? I guess it depends how long you see yourself with the purchase until replacing it. I'd buy neither personally since I'm broke AF 😂 but if I could afford it, the K-S2 makes more sense, the 96MP composite image sounds cool, but I dunno how gimmicky that is, if you think it's something you'd care about and can try it out for yourself or something, maybe that and the additional ISO range is worth throwing the extra cash for?
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Originally posted by caligula View PostPhone camera modules aren't that expensive, e.g. $34.95 for the SGS9 main camera:]
Originally posted by polarathene View PostThis new Pi camera was apparently in the works for 3 years(the lens are custom designed for it apparently vs using an existing product).
C mounts are a pure ass in a lot of ways. You cannot do a adaptor from the larger C mount connect to a CS lens and have it work right.
You can mount C and CS lens without a mount as they have direct bolt mounting.
Learn more about these RPI camera lenses here: http://bit.ly/2VBZScvOr buy it here:https://amzn.to/32fVp1Oand here:https://amzn.to/2nITqnAUse 07ETS6VE for an...
Yes the raspberry pi Camera Module V2 is in fact CS lens compatible as well but requires CS lens direct mounted and you have to remove the provided lens. Lens mounts allow you to turn and un-clip and change the CS and C lens. Mounted without a C/CS len mount requires undoing bolts to change lens and sometimes horrible spaces. Gets worse Camera module V2 if you add a C/CS mount you distance to sensor is wrong this is why the lens is mounted without spaces. So there is a chance that a party buying the new raspberry camera will have a CS lens or two lying around that will be perfectly compatible.
So they are using a pure standard lens with a standard define lens mount. The C and CS mount are more commonly used in security cameras and microscopes and telescopes. Yes security C and CS camera lens are well and truly mass produced and quite cost effective.
Yes its common in security cameras and microscopes with power driven focus and zoom for this to be on a independent cable than in the connection mount where you normal DSLR and other cameras have this though the mounting ring to make changing simpler. Also note that C and CS lens mounts are design to be single screw locked into the mountings as well not simple button releases. If you are not using a mount CS is 2 retaining bolts and if C its 4 retaining bolts. Yes C particularly mount is pain saver.
Working around security cameras you get to know C and CS mounts and if a security camera is some other mount lot of cases you just straight up replace them because lens replacement prices as different parties damage them will no be cost effective.
Originally posted by polarathene View PostThe K-70 seems nice, but not really worth over 1.5x the price? I guess it depends how long you see yourself with the purchase until replacing it. I'd buy neither personally since I'm broke AF 😂 but if I could afford it, the K-S2 makes more sense, the 96MP composite image sounds cool, but I dunno how gimmicky that is, if you think it's something you'd care about and can try it out for yourself or something, maybe that and the additional ISO range is worth throwing the extra cash for?
https://www.apertus.org/axiom-beta-imagesensors Higher end 12-13MP 4K sensor you would be expecting to like 2.5 to 10 times faster 75-300 frames per second but these are also a lot more expensive also don't work with your cost effective to get C and CS lenes or you C or CS devices simply.
polarathene I know about this speed of capture problem because a relation I have likes taking flying aircraft a few frames per second don't cut it you need a camera that is able to do 30 fps at least to be able to rapid fire and get aircraft in shot at times. So its not just a resolution problem of the sensor sometimes a camera with a low resolution sensor is a better choice than a higher resolution sensor.
I do think this raspberry pi high quality camera for what it is not badly placed. Something that is designed to connect to what you will be using in education or lab setting providing a reasonable resolution with usable capture speed.
Yes connecting a raspberry pi Camera Module V2 to a microscope or telescope was not possible because you need the CS mounting ring for a lot of use cases. Same with a lot of suggestions use a webcam or phone camera same problem it don't connect to CS mounting. Yes a CS mount camera can put you back 200 USD at times without lens with custom firmware that can drive you nuts with glitches.
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Originally posted by caligula View Post
FWIW, 720p video requires a 0,92 MP sensor. 720p isn't that bad considering they're designed for video conferences. You can also easily find good quality 1080p webcams for $69 or less. The situation has improved quite a lot in 15 years. Webcams used to shoot 320x240 back then. Most webcams also shoot stills at much higher quality. For example the $25 entry level Logitech C170 can do 5 MP.
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