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OnLogic Karbon 700: Passively-Cooled, Up To 8 Core / 16 Thread Industrial & Rugged PC

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  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by LogicDarek View Post
    ...
    I appreciate the response

    I'll definitely be considering your hardware for my next system(s).

    Leave a comment:


  • LogicDarek
    replied
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

    If you ever try to specifically target the GNU/Linux / hacker / liberty-privacy-security-geek market with passively cooled systems, may I suggest these things:
    Thanks so much for taking the time to list out these suggestions, we really enjoy getting this type of feedback. I passed this along to a few of the folks here who designed Karbon 700, and are working on our next releases, and wanted to pass along their comments:

    We have a python module called "pykarbon" that's available for anyone to use -- it's primary use case is for controlling our hardware IO (DIO/CAN). We provide the source code for this module on GitHub, and it is completely free and open for anyone to use for anything they'd like.

    https://github.com/onlogic/Pykarbon

    In general, I would say a lot of us at OnLogic are big fans of open source software, and it's definitely something we're looking to do more of in the future. I'll also add that we ship tons of systems with Ubuntu, regularly support customer's who have issues with these images, and have a number of engineers/support staff who are *nix buffs. It's definitely something we're comfortable supporting, and we even offer a service for capturing and shipping customer's custom Linux images.

    Basically we're huge nerds here, and we help people solve difficult problems every day. So making raw data available, and trying to use open source where we can, is really something that resonates with us.

    And on his last point, we have several systems (including the Karbon 700) that have chassis intrusion detection features.

    Leave a comment:


  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by LogicDarek View Post
    Darek here from OnLogic, just jumping in to say that you nailed many of the biggest challenges our fanless systems are designed to solve, and you're absolutely right that there are SO many use cases that could benefit from a fanless computer. One of our favorite things to do is help users who have been struggling with failing systems for years transition to a fanless platform that allows them to focus on their business, rather than fixing hardware.
    I bought a pair of fanless systems from CompuLab for myself and a family member quite a while back. It's old now, but has served my needs perfectly. Because it's a low-power, audibly-silent system, I never feel the need to turn it off, so it has brought me the benefit that it's always there running and ready to use whenever I need it, without a shutdown and close-programs or boot and re-open programs ritual.

    When I replace it I'll be considering your systems as well as CompuLab.

    The only other options I'm considering are making a system using a HD Plex case ( https://www.hdplex.com/ ) or a MonsterLabo case ( https://www.monsterlabo.com/ ).

    If you ever try to specifically target the GNU/Linux / hacker / liberty-privacy-security-geek market with passively cooled systems, may I suggest these things:
    • If you use Intel chips, ship a motherboard containing deblobbed Intel CPU firmware. You can use the wonderful me_cleaner project ( https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner ) to help with this. This is what Purism (laptop provider) do. You may not be able to use the latest Intel chips, but that will likely be a trade-off that the types of users I mentioned will be happy to make.
    • If you want to do something hardcore-amazing, consider working with the Raptor guys ( https://raptorcs.com/ ) to produce a OpenPOWER CPU system with passive cooling.
    • Use Coreboot on the motherboard (you may have to pay someone to develop Coreboot support for an existing board you wish to use, or source a board you know works with Coreboot).
    • Try and use only hardware which has Open Source firmware available for it. It's not always possible. A best effort is appreciated.
    • If you want to offer discrete graphics support, AMD is preferred by the types of people mentioned due to the fact that they play much nicer with the whole GNU/Linux ecosystem than NVIDIA and they also ship and maintain Open Source graphics card drivers.
    • Make sure the popular GNU/Linux distros work out of the box on your system (e.g. Arch, Debian Stable, Ubuntu Desktop LTS, OpenSUSE). You don't necessarily have to ship a distro pre-installed. Personally I always install my own distro even if the device came installed with what I wanted. I just like to know that I have a completely stock, untampered distro installed on my system.
    • Don't ship your own homebrew GNU/Linux OS. That's a lot to support. If you want something that's going to be as easy to use and problem free as possible for noobie GNU/Linux users, just chuck Ubuntu Desktop LTS on the hard disk. Those with a little more knowledge will just replace it with whatever they prefer.
    • Have at least one support guy who uses and loves GNU/Linux. I've worked for companies that shipped GNU/Linux products when they didn't have anyone in support or even any developers who really used and loved GNU/Linux. It resulted in a lot of people seeing GNU/Linux as a headache, an unknown and a problem for them.
    • Make as much raw data about your product available to your customers as possible. The type of people I mentioned are the type to use that data to answer their own questions (so they don't bother you) and to build their own solutions to problems.
    • Ideally have some kind of anti-tamper procedure setup to help customers detect if their product has been tampered with in transit.
    • Message me and I'll be your first customer!

    Leave a comment:


  • LogicDarek
    replied
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
    I love passively cooled systems. You normally have to pay more for them (in terms of priceerformance), but you usually get the advantages:
    • Dust can't get inside the case :: less time consuming cleaning is required & they can operate in dustier environments better.
    • Not prone to mechanical failure (IE fans dying). This makes them more reliable.
    • Audibly silent operation :: making them more suitable for people doing recording work and making them generally more pleasant for humans. Ever been in a room where an aircon system or some computers suddenly cut out and then you felt a noticeable relief?
    I think there are a lot more systems out there which would yield better value & a better experience for their users if they were passively cooled.
    Darek here from OnLogic, just jumping in to say that you nailed many of the biggest challenges our fanless systems are designed to solve, and you're absolutely right that there are SO many use cases that could benefit from a fanless computer. One of our favorite things to do is help users who have been struggling with failing systems for years transition to a fanless platform that allows them to focus on their business, rather than fixing hardware.

    Thanks to everyone who's read the review and commented, we really value the feedback.

    Leave a comment:


  • cybertraveler
    replied
    I love passively cooled systems. You normally have to pay more for them (in terms of priceerformance), but you usually get the advantages:
    • Dust can't get inside the case :: less time consuming cleaning is required & they can operate in dustier environments better.
    • Not prone to mechanical failure (IE fans dying). This makes them more reliable.
    • Audibly silent operation :: making them more suitable for people doing recording work and making them generally more pleasant for humans. Ever been in a room where an aircon system or some computers suddenly cut out and then you felt a noticeable relief?
    I think there are a lot more systems out there which would yield better value & a better experience for their users if they were passively cooled. Alas; the kind of people that judge cameras by how many mega pixies and computers by how many mega horses (Mhz) they have, aren't going to be interested in passively cooled computers and thus the market will likely favour fan-cooled systems (laptops, consoles & desktops) for a long time to come.

    It's cool that "smart" phones and tablets are usually passively cooled. I'm not so interested in them myself though, as 99% of them are built to subordinate the user, rather than be subordinate to the user.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by horizonbrave View Post
    Good choice to go for Intel CPUs!
    And the super friendly Nvidia CPUs.. way to go mates!!
    To be fair, this thing is most likely going to run some Windows system anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
    Whatever, there are numerous REMOTE facilities that need monitoring if not control.
    Remote control and management is not a backdoor.

    Also, building entirely separated network to facility 500 miles away could be goddamn expensive and inefficient thing to do.
    VPNs are a thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • horizonbrave
    replied
    Good choice to go for Intel CPUs!
    And the super friendly Nvidia CPUs.. way to go mates!!

    Leave a comment:


  • SystemCrasher
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Industrial stuff's "security" is debatable at best. If someone has physical network access you are screwed anyway.
    Whatever, there are numerous REMOTE facilities that need monitoring if not control. And I'm sorry to inform you but companies just wouldn't put full team of alive humans if they can avoid that. Because at the end of day companies are greedy, you can count on it. Also, building entirely separated network to facility 500 miles away could be goddamn expensive and inefficient thing to do. So remote telemetry and control IS here, and I'm dead sure more will come. Yes, it a bit playing with fire for the sake of saving money... but that's how business works.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by yariv View Post
    It isn't clear if the Karbon 700 was tested with a discrete GPU or not.
    It doesn't appear to have one, based on both the pics of the HW and this (hint: right-click to view in a separate tab/window):



    Originally posted by yariv View Post
    If no such GPU was installed then the comparison is not very meaningful.
    That's nonsense. None of these tests involved the GPU. Sure, just showing a GUI means the iGPU will eat a little bit of main memory bandwidth, but it shouldn't be much.
    Last edited by coder; 16 November 2019, 03:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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