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ZFS On Linux Lands TRIM Support Ahead Of ZOL 0.8

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Candy View Post
    Does actually anyone use ZFS ? Whenever I read about ZFS I have to think about "dead code" within the Linux Kernel.
    Yes, for almost three years now. I won't use anything else for data storage drives these days. When/If we get a bootloader with full ZFS support it'll be the only file system I use (not counting sd cards, etc).

    I'm also using BTRFS on my OS disk and it has a swap file mounted with the systemd-swap service.

    Back in the day my first though was "whatever" in regards to ZFS. After using it for a while, "whatever" is how I feel about all the other file systems.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by eydee View Post
      Pretty much all Linux distros these days tend to utilize systemd to TRIM-spam partitions DURING the boot process, making OS bootup once in a week take 5 to 10 minutes. All accompanied by a black screen, no status indicator, so only after hunting logs do you realize the thing was TRIMming your partitions 1000 times in the middle of the OS boot process. Windows partitions included, of course, because f... you, dual-booters.

      All these lovely things are coming to ZFS users, so welcome to the party of sitting 10 minutes at a black screen just to get a chance to log in. Yeah, TRIM is a good and useful feature. It should never ever be done in the middle of an OS boot process. F... systemd and all distributions that allow this.
      Don't blame systemd for that. You know damn well they'd do the same damn TRIM-spam regardless of the init system...probably with cron and a script.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Candy View Post
        Does actually anyone use ZFS ? Whenever I read about ZFS I have to think about "dead code" within the Linux Kernel.
        yes, extensively since is miles ahead of other FS regardless the OS

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        • #14
          Originally posted by eydee View Post
          Pretty much all Linux distros these days tend to utilize systemd to TRIM-spam partitions DURING the boot process, making OS bootup once in a week take 5 to 10 minutes. All accompanied by a black screen, no status indicator, so only after hunting logs do you realize the thing was TRIMming your partitions 1000 times in the middle of the OS boot process. Windows partitions included, of course, because f... you, dual-booters.

          All these lovely things are coming to ZFS users, so welcome to the party of sitting 10 minutes at a black screen just to get a chance to log in. Yeah, TRIM is a good and useful feature. It should never ever be done in the middle of an OS boot process. F... systemd and all distributions that allow this.
          What are you talking about? No distribution I know is doing that...

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          • #15
            Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post

            yes, extensively since is miles ahead of other FS regardless the OS
            LOL not even! ZFS doesnt even have a fsck, defrag or encryption. It's 1980s tech with a 2000s spit and polish.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by darkbasic View Post

              I do.
              I do too, for the home, as I use sometimes linux other freebsd and there is no other fs I can use to share home, but not for root I use ext4 in linux and ufs in freebsd...

              I tried btrfs in linux and for me sucks and ended with a totally unrecoverable partition (well for sure if I pay an expert enterprise data recovery they do but don't gonna do that), zfs is the real thing, but still does not fit my desktop requirements without tuning (default arc consumes too much system memory for a desktop)

              But how it supports trim??? I mean some mounting options on some fs make every write on disk to ask for discard which is not efficient... Now I have just a "cron" script (because really is an at command that rechedules itself each time is called as I don't use cron just for the dirty config file...) which trims ssd every few days, that is supposed to be the right way to use this feature. What does exactly does the trim support in zfs??

              And by the way systemd sucks, and I want to call *nix coommunity to considere go the way of statically link libraries s a way to mantain compatibility between distros and new big programs with linux versions but closer to the windows world... so still can mantain all diversity of the linux world, as seriously memory quantiy is not a problem nowadays, dinamic linking has more problems than advantages, mainly in *nix world.

              Also opossite to that people as the same linus torwalds who hate nvidia, for me is good that such a big graphics company puts efforts to make native (no colour compared to opensourced counterpart) drivers, the is no problem with a company write his own code for his own products, they now better than anyone how to get all power from it, its still FREE and you can still do your open source drivers if you want... but they SUCKS. But what i really want to say about this is I'm also a detractor of glibc in favor of musl but can't use it as nvidia propietary drivers only work with glibc at least the support programs not the kernel module itself, so it will be great if there will be any kind of effort in that direction.

              I'm using void linux now (glibc version) but would like to use a moire hipster distro like done in the past (previous to my pc crash and now with my renewed medium-gamma pc gaming its a must form me to could get all power from it with propiertary graphics drivers... i have a rtx 2060 for something, which makes me speak about the last think random I just want to throw somewhere like this post for instance... more native linux games please, don't want to use wine , lutris, steam with proton, and moreover not with games as quake champions who come from older versions wich where flagship native linux games as quake3arena.

              So please somebody who can do anything watch this post as the more official I go in places where the masses are more them censor me as I'm been spied censored and drugued by authorities in spain for 15 years (drugued not so many years) because they just harash me but justify by searching for excuses.

              resuming: my wish line of work for *nix world:
              * zfs is cool
              * systemd -> burn the which
              * begin to statically link libraries more than use dinamically
              * nvidia doing native drivers for linux freebsd etc.. YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL !!!!
              * burn also that glibc bloated obsolete library, musl is cooler
              * and didn't remember to speak before about that but here is, 32bit compatibility libraries also sucks, after so many years and still there are programs only in 32bit mode.. this will be also partially solved by just statically compiling all...that will make the use of a 32 bit program a matter of compiling kernel with 32bit compatibility option turned on..

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              • #17
                Originally posted by Rallos Zek View Post

                LOL not even! ZFS doesnt even have a fsck, defrag or encryption. It's 1980s tech with a 2000s spit and polish.
                WoW, you are so sapient on file systems i should hire you like right now, damn google should freaking hire you like yesterday. WoW

                1.) ZFS don't and will never need something as crude as FSCK because is COW + self healing(aka it fsck itself), the closest thing would be resilvering(mostly for Physcal DISK replacement)

                2.) ZFS don't require defrag at all since is COW mate, hence it never slows it down plus unlike toy FS, ZFS does DEDUP and all sort of RAID combos that can even make this even more null

                3.) AHH??? doesn't WHAT???? AHH???, ZFS encrypts boy and it encrypt hard:

                -- wanna encrypt whole pool done with a shinny RAID 60 on 20 drives with M.2 caches, done this is not even an issue
                -- wanna encrypt only a volume or set of volumes in that pool? done
                -- wanna encrypt only certain handpicked snapshot of that volume or set volumes? sure, are you even trying to make this hard?
                -- wanna encrypt a deduped and compressed large DNODE set of snapshots of those volumes BUT in a pool that use ISCSI hardrives from a JBOD? easy as cake boy
                -- wanna use those for booting the OS as well with systemd-boot? lol, is like you are not even trying

                3. CAVEAT: ) for NATIVE ACCELERATED ENCRYPTION you need 0.8 release and a recent enough kernel.

                General CAVEAT: ZoL is not Illumos ZFS, since that codebase basically was killed by Oracle hence why FreeBSD is moving to ZoL now

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                • #18
                  Given that it only took 7.5 years to implement TRIM, I'm kinda giddy to start using ZFS now.

                  Hey, at least with BTRFS I know I can lose all my data if the kernel crashes the right way. (only happened to me twice in my life)
                  With ZFS I've no idea that it wouldn't accidentally get something that's already in use TRIM-ed due to presumably a bug in the code.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by eydee View Post
                    Pretty much all Linux distros these days tend to utilize systemd to TRIM-spam partitions DURING the boot process, making OS bootup once in a week take 5 to 10 minutes. All accompanied by a black screen, no status indicator, so only after hunting logs do you realize the thing was TRIMming your partitions 1000 times in the middle of the OS boot process. Windows partitions included, of course, because f... you, dual-booters.

                    All these lovely things are coming to ZFS users, so welcome to the party of sitting 10 minutes at a black screen just to get a chance to log in. Yeah, TRIM is a good and useful feature. It should never ever be done in the middle of an OS boot process. F... systemd and all distributions that allow this.
                    I reboot a few times a week, but never ever have I experienced a bootup that was longer than 10 seconds. Using Solus with systemd.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by msotirov
                      It's used a lot, especially in enterprise. Much more so than btrfs.
                      Very true. But I think he meant ZFS On Linux. AFAIK, that's not being used much in enterprise, if ever.

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