codword: Anyone with an nVidia optimus-enabled laptop able to turn off power to the nvidia GPU? (Did you find an ACPI call or something?)
Kano: asus?
codword: Alienware m11x R2
Kano: a really expensive one..
codword: Doesn't appear that Optimus enabled laptops have ACPI calls to disable/enable nVidia GPU
Kano: well
Kano: i saw a trick to use echo 1 to sys somewhere
Bakou: that sucks.. did you try vgaswitcheroo and nouveau?
Bakou: oh
Bakou: nm
codword: vgaswitcherooo -- comes with 2.6.36 -- doesnt work
codword: vgaswitcheroo code uses _DSM acpi methods
Bakou: yeah i cant even get it to work on my R600
codword: which... does not apply to nvidia optimus
Bakou: just gives me a kms framebuffer
Bakou: thats it
codword: linux + nvidia optimus = brick
Bakou: that sucks :\
Bakou: youd think they would figure something out in their binary drivers soon?
codword: I cant believe someone hasnt made a hack or workaround yet just to turn off the damn power
codword: I'll live with the intel gpu
Bakou: they usually actually support their stuff
Kano: michaellarabel: is the estimated time remaining always 17 min?
Bakou: but yeah at least with the ati switching, you can just switch with the bios
Bakou: maybe theres a bios hack out there for optimus
Bakou: it is pretty new tho
Bakou: switching with the bios is still pretty lame tho
Bakou: We have no plans to support Optimus on Linux at this time.
Bakou: hey they sound just like valve~
Kano: not all laptops support bios swithcing
Kano: bbl
Bakou: maybe from now on ati really is the way to go on linux
codword: I dont really give a rip about 'seamless' gpu switching which is what optimus is all about
codword: however, I would like to manually switch..t ahts fine with me
Bakou: whyd you buy it then :\
Bakou: gpu switching is actrually pretty cool when it works
Bakou: if you need to save battery
Bakou: it does save a lot
Bakou: i can squeeze like 8+ hours outta mine on windows
codword: which I can do fine manually
codword: yeah I get 12+ hrs on my netbook..
codword: but.. only 4 hours or so on my m11x
codword: I should be getting like 5 or 6
Bakou: i got windows vista on mine, its kinda funny when you boot in without switcable graphics windows gets kinda buggy
Bakou: after a while it wont let you change the brightness
Bakou: and on the intel card, its just unbearably slow
Bakou: like completely worthless really
codword: hmm not mine
codword: plenty fast enough for everything except games
Bakou: if you boot the intel card in linux its great
Bakou: but on windows without switchable its just crap
Bakou: it must be some wierd powersaving bug
codword: maybe.. dunno. I've only booted windows once, to flash my bios
Bakou: heh you kinda need to do some research before you buy hw for linux :\
Bakou: someday i hope its not like that
codword: I've been runnin' linux for 15 years dude, before there were distros
codword: I'll write my own driver if they dont fix it soon =P
Bakou: lol
Bakou: well let me know how that goes
codword: I just dont have time to disassemble their gigantic windows driver
Bakou: maybe ill use your drivers if i get a new laptop~
codword: all I wanna know is the correct i2c method or acpi_method to shut off the discrete card
codword: then I'll wait on the nouveau guys to get the rest workin'
Bakou: what card are they up to now, with 3d support?
Bakou: i heard they already have fermi kms in .36
Bakou: but dunno where the 3D is at
codword: dunno, havent really had a need to use nouveau before
codword: I use the closed-source nvidia linux driver for another machine, works fine... no need for KMS
Bakou: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto
Bakou: oh :\
Bakou: no support
Bakou: lol
codword: there are tons of patches for that flying through the pipeline
codword: wont be long would be my guess
Bakou: yeah i heard its going well
Bakou: right now ive basically ditched nvidia though
Bakou: all ati
Bakou: they happened to be in the thinkpad i wanted
Bakou: and then they did a great job with the 5000 series
Bakou: although the drivers are still kinda fubar in like windows xp
Bakou: the cards themselves are a great deal ><
Bakou: only works properly in win7 atm i think tho
codword: nvidia drivers are superior
codword: at least, for windows
Bakou: kind of scared to try it in linux
Bakou: yeah
Bakou: for linux too, right now at least
Bakou: change is afoot though
Bakou: i might give it a shot whent hey get drivers for ubuntu 10.10 out
codword: looks at Gnurdux
codword: meh @ ubuntu
Bakou: then if not i can switch over to xorg-edgers and wait for the open source~
Bakou: yeah well
Bakou: if its ubuntu then it doesnt matter if you totally butcher it :P
Gnurdux: codword: is that a script?
codword: not a single mention of linux on www.ubuntu.com
Bakou: lol
Bakou: really?
codword: really.
codword: they are so commercial. F them.
codword: anyway...
codword: Gnurdux: saw your name come up in my google'ing tonight about nVidia optimus
codword: thats how I found this chat room :)
Gnurdux: lol, really?
codword: Saw you bitching about lack of support..... seems I've found a partner in that effort :)
Bakou: well i use gentoo on my laptop, but im not building gentoo on an install i *might* use :P
Bakou: plus i could also blame ati for releasing their drivers directly to ubuntu, basically
Bakou: binaries at least
codword: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1393076#post1393076
codword: grumbles.
Gnurdux: codword, well i ended up buying a laptop with ATI
Gnurdux: AND no intel integrated graphics (core i7)
Gnurdux: lol
codword: eh, I really like my Alienware M11X R2
Gnurdux: uh huh
Gnurdux: sounds like a great machine for Windows, if you like smallness and gaming
codword: I didnt imagine the optimus thing would be such a pain int he ass, I figured worst case scenario I'd have to hack a little kernel module together
Gnurdux: lol
codword: but.. I should've done more reading first :)
Bakou: you could always install cygwin on win7 and pretend~
Gnurdux: so from what i understand, you cant even use the nvidia driver for a fake screen?
Gnurdux: the driver crashes?
codword: driver wont init the bIOS
codword: nvidia gpu is worthless AND it draws power
codword: thats my biggest complaint. I just wanna turn off the power
codword: I'm ok with the intel driver for now
codword: cause I really dont play a lot of games thats what x360 is for ;)
Gnurdux: lol
Gnurdux: yeah, that is
Gnurdux: pretty fail
Gnurdux: then again, my understanding is you cant even do that with old switchable graphics
Gnurdux: unless you want to completely give up proprietary driver
Bakou: with kms its possible
codword: yes with old switchable graphics its trivial
Bakou: but you could also just switch in the bios and use binary driver
codword: kms has nothign tod ow ith it
codword: pre-optimus systems have an ACPI method that you can call to shut off power
codword: or enable power
codword: makes it piss-easy to write a script to switch between gpus
Bakou: i think vgaswitcheroo only works with the kms drivers tho
Bakou: thats not what i heard
codword: thats possible but not a big deal to write a script to change your xorg.conf and restart X
codword: the guys over at ArchLinux have a nice howto / example script on their M11X page
Bakou: well
Bakou: another issue that when you do enable switchable, the kernel used to seem to have a lot of trouble recognizing it
Bakou: it works now tho since .34
Bakou: personally i havnt got it workin at all tho so i dunno
Bakou: but ive dealt with switcable graphics & linux for almost 2 years now
Bakou: and there was a time when it realy kinda sucked
codword: I imagine.
codword: I'd be okw ith rebooting even. no big deal
Bakou: ati binary drivers and intel gpu drivers dont get along very well
codword: because I rarely need to suddenly stop working/2D stuff and paly a game ;)
Bakou: with both open source, its a much nicer world
Bakou: mesa and ati binaries both try to implement some libgl file
Bakou: they crash pretty hard~
Bakou: er
Bakou: clash
codword: I'mreally happy with this alienware..
codword: of course I voided the warranty soon as I got it
codword: heh
Bakou: lol
Bakou: good job
codword: also replaced the HD with an OCZ Vertex SSD and the wireless card with an Atheros 9287
codword: which supports "master mode" so i can become a wireless access point if I need to
Bakou: ahh yeah
Bakou: id quite like that ability
Bakou: does intel agn5000 have that?
codword: nope.
codword: $19 bucks on ebay.
codword: I've bought 3 of those so far
codword: I built a small Atom-based Linux server for my house
Bakou: i just bought an alfa usb wifi adapter
Bakou: super hardcore antenna that works on linux
Bakou: with packet injection too
Bakou: has 2 usb plugs for power heh
Bakou: maybe that would do it
codword: it runs 3 phones (VOIP + voicemail), 4 TVs (MythTV), samba/nfs server, full-time torrent/nzb downloader, mpc music daemon/stereo, email, print-server
Bakou: i guess you could always make a bridge with a static ip on adhoc... but thats really kinda ghetto
codword: and it has one of those atheros mini-pci cards ...... I got a couple of +9 db antennas for it.. and its also running hostapd and provides 802.11/b/g/n for the house...
codword: its also an internet router/firewall/gateway
codword: for 65 watts average power draw :)
codword: yeah -- adhoc sucks
codword: travel too much with my girlfriend -- I just run my script that turns my laptop into an access point, and then accesses the net via my Blackberry (tethered)
Bakou: sometimes i need to share wifi with my iphone in hotels
codword: all she does is click on the network and login
Bakou: lol
Bakou: exactly eh
Bakou: gotta provide networking for the lady
Bakou: thats key classiness
codword: shes a professor .. so always doing online crap with students
codword: plus shes addicted to facebook so .... gotta do what I gotta do
Bakou: ive been travelling in china, and ive found all the hotels have lans
Bakou: no wifi to be found anywhere in rooms
codword: when I travel on business, the company usually puts me up in ncie hotels.. and almost all of them charge for internet
Bakou: and i happen to have an iphone, but really dislike itunes~
codword: annoying
codword: the cheap hotels are all free internet heh
Bakou: company should pay for that
Bakou: i know, that shit really gets to me
Bakou: you should say you need internet for business though
Bakou: i always do that
Bakou: in that situation
codword: Eh, they will, but its a pain in the ass to expense it.. gotta get it put on a seperate bill, always makes checkotu a hassel
Bakou: :\
codword: totally worth the $19 bucks on ebay for am atheros chip ;)
Bakou: another thing is airports
Bakou: god those airports without free wifi
codword: oh I usually just hijack someone's connection there
codword: grins
Bakou: thats just highway robbery
Bakou: yeah
Bakou: well
Bakou: thats exactly my plan now
Bakou: well
codword: just sit near someone using it
Bakou: more like just crack the employee wifi networks :P
codword: and I claim their MAC address, flood the default gateway with pings
codword: they usually get frustrated and shut it off.. then I get to use it
Bakou: hahaha
Bakou: awesome
Bakou: they all id with the web based shit by mac eh?
Bakou: ill have to remember that
Bakou: good point
codword: yeah most hot spots do
codword: that charge anyway
Bakou: so easy to do too
Bakou: youll have everyones mac in a 50 m radius in like 2 seconds
codword: aircrack-ng has a nice util that'll collect them and sort by signal strength
codword: :)
Bakou: i was thinking of just finding the employee lans with WEP though
codword: I find some kid using a psp or something..take over his mac
codword: grins
Bakou: since thats a little bit better manner
Bakou: dont have to ruin anyones day that way :P
codword: most of the pay hotspots are open though.. no cracking necessary
codword: juts gotta hijack someone's mac
Bakou: i know
Bakou: but usually theres also like the employees only WLAN i mean
Bakou: aside from those pay hotspots
Bakou: if they were all WPA though
Bakou: then i would resort to your trick :P
Bakou: its the airport i really wanna scam
Bakou: not the poor people who actually paid for that shit :\
codword: WPA is much more difficult to hijack someone's MAC
codword: because then you have to re-associate
codword: and.. most hotspots are smart enough to reset their 'approved' MAC cache on that event
Bakou: heh i mean if they were all WPA, i would use the public hotspots
syn-ack: And you better hope they're not running 802.x on that WPA connection as well
Bakou: WPA is kind of a bitch~
Bakou: WEP is a giveaway though with the righ ttools
codword: Yeah you gotta have nothing better to do to wanna hack that crap
codword: I'd rather just pay the 7 bucks for access..
Bakou: nah
Bakou: id rather die
Bakou: haha
codword: I run freeradius & hostapd at home EAP-GTC
syn-ack: The way I see it is if they leave their shit open, then it's open for the taking, if they have it locked, then it's not worth messing with.
Bakou: most people are starting to get it, most of the networks i see are wpa nowadays
codword: I have a wireless vlan called 'Upside-down Net"
codword: that provides free internet access
syn-ack: Bakou: That's good, imo
codword: but it NATs everyone through my http proxy which, real time, calls ImageMagick and flips all jpg/gif/png's upside down
Bakou: theres stil the WEPs here and there though
codword: lots of people in ym apartment complex complain about it ;) heh
Bakou: haha
codword: shit
codword: 245am
codword: later all
Bakou: thats pretty dangerous though
Bakou: wont be a joke anymore when some guy starts looking at upside down childporn :\
syn-ack: Exactly
syn-ack: What I used to do is this when I had only WEP encryption: I'd have my LAN locked down, but if someone was able to get in, I had my router email with their mac and the ip it assigned. It would then place any authorized clients on it's own vlan that filtered and redirected all DNS requests to goatse.cx with the exception of AIM and shit which I would then monitor and inject shit into their messages
syn-ack: THAT was fun
Bakou: haha
syn-ack: Now that I use WPA2 Enterprise, I don't do it
Bakou: yeah
Bakou: but im pretty sure 99.9% of wep users are just ignorant
Bakou: especially now~
syn-ack: Well
Bakou: i remember when wpa wasnt so well supported
Bakou: a coupel years ago
syn-ack: there are still very few devices that only use WEP encryption
syn-ack: ie the Nintendo DS
Bakou: oh really?
Bakou: man, nintendo are the master of shitty networking haha
syn-ack: the original and the the DSi only have WEP
Bakou: i think they only noticed the internet existed somewhere around 2004
Bakou: still playing catchup
syn-ack: So you either run a separate vlan for the WEP devices(s) along with the WPA encrypted devices on another vlan or you just run everything WEP
syn-ack: And, if you don't know/cant do that shit, what are you gonna do if you don't know that WEP suck
adm1: One of the main reasons to use wep is because of WDS.
syn-ack: s
syn-ack: yeah, but how many instances are you really gonna see WDS in a home?
adm1: Here for instance, across several houses.
adm1: and in some other rural areas I know of.
syn-ack: ok, for an "average" user
Bakou: not too many nds games even have online support though
adm1: it's very handy, we couple it with mac address filtering
Bakou: and theres a crappy cable to let you go online too
Bakou: heh
adm1: I'd rather have wpa2 but we need wds more.
Bakou: mac filtering on a wep
adm1: yes.
syn-ack: adm1: I could have it broken in no time and I could DoS one of the MACS I see on the network and clone it's mac and be on
syn-ack: literally no time.
Bakou: just means when the guy breaks in you have to time share it with him
Bakou: mac filtering does nothing
adm1: ok.
Bakou: although it can kinda make it harder to get started
Bakou: but a pro will be like oh, it has mac filtering
Bakou: after a few mins
Bakou: maybe less
Bakou: but i guess you do forc ehim to wait for you to use the wifi...
Bakou: victory?
Bakou: personally i actually have a DS
Bakou: but theres no way id use WEP
Bakou: thats just dangerously unsafe
adm1: guess you dont like starbucks either?
Bakou: hate it
Bakou: dont drink coffee
Bakou: thats different from your home network with your bandwidth, though~
syn-ack: starbucks is pretentious.
Bakou: and your legal liability
Bakou: id ont have a problem with using other peoples WEPs
Bakou: heh
Bakou: in fact, i would do so happily
Bakou: just wouldnt do online shopping or something :P
syn-ack: I just pay for my internet
Bakou: me too, i just dont want to share it with anyone with open source wifi drivers ><
syn-ack: who said you're gonna share it if you have a FOSS driver?
Bakou: i mean if i used WEP.. and they had one
syn-ack: ah
Bakou: theres programs that do it all for you now
Bakou: its really really easy
syn-ack: I've been in wireless security for a few years. I'm aware.
syn-ack: I just didnt understand your context of that statement is all
Bakou: first learned of it when i found backtrack 3, but lately ive regained interest
Bakou: i have wireless phases
Bakou: i was crazy about OTA HDTV for a while~
Bakou: now i cant receive it though, or at least i couldnt when i moved here :|
syn-ack: meh, Backtrack is overrated. I just install the tools on Ubuntu or Windows
Bakou: i know, i want to get my tools all working on gentoo
Bakou: i tried backtrack 4 and i was like wtf is this shit
Bakou: all the tools seem broken out of the box
Bakou: another distro called "pentoo" looks interesting as well
syn-ack: I remember running Gentoo. Yeah, I value my time.
Bakou: backtrack4 is like bloatware and it doesnt even work out of the box
Bakou: backtrac3 was fine
Bakou: heh yeah
Bakou: you have to be a bit sadistic for gentoo
Bakou: which i am
Bakou: when you finally get it working though, it flies
Bakou: simple shit like updating firefox is pretty painful though
syn-ack: I get the same performance out of Ubuntu that I did on Gentoo.
syn-ack: with the benefit of binary packages
Bakou: yeah i dont think ill be installing gentoo again
Bakou: lol
Bakou: ive done it twice now
Bakou: its been good both times
Bakou: but im getting old now
syn-ack: You know, which gives me time to be productive and work on my security profiles
Bakou: and i think thats enough
Bakou: a lot of people recommending arch linux lately
Bakou: but
Bakou: i get the feeling its also a bit of a time sink
syn-ack: From what I've seen, it is
Bakou: lotta people scoff at distros that are humane
Bakou: but theres something to be said for a computer meant to be used by people, not programmers ><
syn-ack: I've been saying this since I started using linux in 1998... The best way to learn how linux works is to install a good distro and learn how to do things with it, not to it
Bakou: ubuntu has its issues though
syn-ack: Every distro does.
Bakou: a lot of the times i do want to modify my kernel
syn-ack: ok and what's wrong with that.
Bakou: trying to recompile a kernel on ubuntu
Bakou: thats whats wrong with that
Bakou: haha
syn-ack: I do it just fine
syn-ack: look into kernel-package
Bakou: i read the instructions for ti a few times
Bakou: looks as bad or worse than any operation ive done on gentoo
Bakou: i quite like building a kernel with make
Bakou: not something i dont understand at all
syn-ack: like I said, look into kernel-package
Bakou: i will
Bakou: cuz im trying to put vmware_gfx into my ubuntu vmware kernel
syn-ack: it automates about 99% of everything.
Bakou: but
Bakou: i got so turned off the second i went to try
Bakou: and i know just doing a make and install kills ubuntu
Bakou: cuz ive tried tha tbefore too
Bakou: haha
syn-ack: Right, because you need an initrd.
Bakou: gentoo is setup to make testing and patching kernel source real easy though
Bakou: which is a winning feature
syn-ack: I test and patch just fine. It's all in the tools you use
Bakou: fair nuff
Bakou: ill check it out
Bakou: kernel-package
Bakou: never heard of it
syn-ack: kernel-package is the "debian way" of building images
syn-ack: and it's in the ubuntu repos
Bakou: my other issue is the fact eventually ubuntu installs just get horribly outdated
Bakou: but now what theyre doing with the edgers PPAs is pretty cool
syn-ack: That's what the inline distro upgrades are for
Bakou: heh
Bakou: never had the balls to try that
syn-ack: do-release-upgrade works just fine
syn-ack: as long as you
syn-ack: err
syn-ack: as long as you're not jumping two or more releases, you'll be fine
Bakou: got 8.04 on my old pc~
syn-ack: then you need to upgrade to all the versions in between if you don't want shit to break
Bakou: luckily i dont really need to update that one though i think
Bakou: i think at least
syn-ack: though supposedly an upgrade from 8.04 LTS to 10.04 LTS is one jump
Bakou: if i can get cuda to work on it should b efine
syn-ack: you'd have to read the relase notes
Bakou: hehe, at this point i wouldnt mind to much if it totally broke down and needed redooing
Bakou: its not exactly mission critical
syn-ack: That's generally what I do
Bakou: but, its still a point against ubuntu
Bakou: a very valid point
syn-ack: meh
Bakou: rolling distros might break often, but they do roll on~
syn-ack: I did it mainly because I'd develop in a live environment instead of a vm
syn-ack: that's changed now.
Bakou: still though, if i could get kernel compilation working without wanting to shoot myself
Bakou: that would b elike +10
syn-ack: Bakou: matt@dev1:~$ uname -a
syn-ack: Linux dev1 2.6.32 #1 SMP Tue Aug 17 01:17:20 MST 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
syn-ack: matt@dev1:~$
syn-ack: Thats one of my ubuntu vms
Bakou: oh i know it can be done, i just quite like the make menuconfig method
Bakou: worked a lot with that
syn-ack: well
syn-ack: with kernel-package you still use make menuconfig
syn-ack: then you use make-kpkg with it's flags after that and it does the rest
Bakou: well now that i know the tools name im sure i can find a good tutorial
Bakou: so thanks for the tip
syn-ack: np
Bakou: cuz im actually stuck with llvmpipe in my vmware for 3d dev
Bakou: when theres a perfectly good vmware gallium3d driver
syn-ack: my dev machines are only consoles so I don't bother with the 3rd party things like that
syn-ack: and of course, I'm using the term loosely
Bakou: heh
Bakou: well i could do it on windows
Bakou: then id only have to pirate visual studio
Bakou: manually copy the gl headers into place
Bakou: or not~
Bakou: make your own build of sdl because they dont offer the right vcproj
Bakou: all that fun stuff
syn-ack: 18 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 6 not upgraded.
syn-ack: Need to get 98.7MB of archives.
admiral0: hi
admiral0: i have a evergreen video card
admiral0: any of you tested new driver for x11?
admiral0: and mesa
admiral0: ?
admiral0: :(
michaellarabel: Kano is your problem on Debian?
Kano: yes, i can give you the iso if you like, pretty fast usually
Kano: you can use mainline kernels with it too, when you install the wireless-crda deb from u
michaellarabel: well it's just a matter whether the php5 package for Debian has pcntl support built in or not, which it should since Ubuntu pulls from it.
Kano: maybe you are missing depends
Kano: as u has a badly configured apt-get which installs more than debian by default
RambJoe: what do you think of amd bulldozer
Kano: RambJoe: when i get a test box i will tell you ;)
RambJoe: are they 32bit
RambJoe: it says x86
djura-san: o/
Kano: michaellarabel: Undefined offset: 0 in /usr/share/phoronix-test-suite/pts-core/options/dump_possible_options.php o
Kano: when you press tab
RambJoe: https://www.santrex.net/vpshosting.php is this good
RambJoe: my site works on every browser
RambJoe: except IE
RambJoe: ffs
^CruX^: hai everyone
^CruX^: who uses IE anyways *cough*
RambJoe: people who made need to use my dads site
RambJoe: lol
RambJoe: i thought jquery was cross browser :(
admiral0: hi.
admiral0: any evergreen user here?
Midler: http://digitizor.com/2010/08/22/valve-puts-an-end-to-the-steam-on-linux-rumors/
Midler: =(
TLE: Hallo guys. Where should I submit bugreports for PTS?
Wicked: so its not official. no linux steam client
Wicked: i knew that post was too good to be true
Wicked: :(
Wicked: *its now
Wicked: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/08/23/valve-vp-were-not-working-on-steam-for-linux/
Wicked: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/valve_says_no_steam_linux
RambJoe: gentoo is awesome
stlsaint: RambJoe: meh, its alright
RambJoe: i couldn't get arch to work with santrex
RambJoe: their password script seems to be broken =/
zeroedout: I love it because of how much control I get over every part of my system and the fact that I can stay bleeding edge with certain things quite easily
stlsaint: as with arch that particular aspect is very nice
stlsaint: brb
stlsaint: RambJoe: you using gentoo right now?
RambJoe: its on a server in santrex
RambJoe: im ssh'd into it
stlsaint: oh ok
CME: yay, bioshock in wine on i945.. with 20sec per frame \o/
Azerthoth: gaming+intel= (cant type laughing too hard)
bkero: wtf
RambJoe: anyone know python?
RambJoe: how do i make it so like 0+1= 0001