Phoronix IRC Log: 2010-08-22
TylerGalt: hey everyone :)
TylerGalt: I'm kind of a newbie regarding Hardware (well... I take hours to browse the net every few years when it's time to upgrade my computer, but aside from that, I've a hard time keeping track of all the changes...)
TylerGalt: I'm currently using Ubuntu Lucid, and have no graphic card (I'm currently using the graphic chipset inside the mother board)... and thus have problems watching HD videos (and let's not even get started about gaming)
Nevtus: TylerGalt: so you're looking for a graphics card?
TylerGalt: my roommate wants to buy a new card, and asked me if I'm interested in his "Gainward HD 4870 Golden Sample (1024MB DDR5)"... the price would be between 50-100€ (not decided yet). I'm trying to browse the web to find more info about this card, and it seems to be a good card (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ati_radeonhd_4870 )
TylerGalt: the thing is, I'm lost with all these talks of ATI vs NVIDIA and open source vs proprietary drivers
TylerGalt: and I don't even know if I'd be better of with buying a 2010 model for around the same price, instead of buying his 2008 model
Nevtus: I've never had an ATI card so I can't say this with any experience, but typically Nvidia cards + their own propietary drivers give the best performance in Linux
Nevtus: ATI have been getting better (as the many phoronix articles show) but it's still not on par with Nvidia
Nevtus: I know there are problems with using ATI cards and playing games through Wine
Nevtus: ATI does support the open source drivers though, so that's good from a philosophical point of view
TylerGalt: so... either go with proprietary NVidia and get good performance, or support ATI's open source efforts, hoping it steadily improves?
Nevtus: TylerGalt: I'm going to upgrade soon and I'm thinking about a Nvidia GTX 460 btw
Nevtus: pretty much
Nevtus: the thing about using nvidia proprietary drivers is you know you're going to get performance comparable to their Windows drivers
TylerGalt: thanks for the pointer, looking into the GTX 460 right now
Nevtus: it's sad that if you want good graphics support you have to compromise (with using closed source drivers) but it's the way it is right now
Nevtus: however with ATI supporting open source development it could change in a few years
Nevtus: but for now I'd recommend Nvidia
TylerGalt: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24864 borkdox seems to agree with you :)
TylerGalt: according to the prices for the GTX 460 (around 230€), it seems to be "middle end" (not sure that's the right english word)
TylerGalt: do you have any pointer to some guide / site with information about 120$ cards?
TylerGalt: or, better, what would you buy if you had a 120$ budget?
Nevtus: yeah the GTX 460 is still quite new
Nevtus: I don't have a guide to hand right now but just check out the Nvidia cards avaliable where you live and buy one in your price range
TylerGalt: cool :)
TylerGalt: I ask, because I remember last year there was some discussion about the ATI 4770 being "very good for its price"
TylerGalt: I'm going to look into those cheaper nvidia gpus, and try to make sense of all the benchmarks to see if they perform better than my roommate's HD4870
Nevtus: if you hang around an ATI user might drop by with their opinions
nyxkn: TylerGalt, this can give you some overview: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-radeon-hd-5570-gaming,2697.html
TylerGalt: wow, nyxkn, awesome article, this seems to be exactly what I needed!
TylerGalt: Nevtus: yes, I'll wait a little for some ATI user's input, thanks :)
nyxkn: it doesn't consider the linux situation though, so you might further investigate that for the cards you seem to like
nyxkn: do you maybe know what chipset is your motherboard mounting?
TylerGalt: mmh, let me check
Megagun: When asked if it was working on a Linux version of the digital game sales platform, Valve's Doug Lombardi told GI.biz:
Megagun: "There's no Linux version that we're working on right now."
Nevtus: "right now" hmm
TylerGalt: it's a Gigabyte G33-DS3R motherboard with an Intel GMA 3100 and a PCI E graphic interface
TylerGalt: according to the motherboard's box :)
TylerGalt: I'm lucky to have kept it, because I always get lost when trying to find out this kind of information on linux.
TylerGalt: (it's also hard on Windows, though)
Nevtus: it's interesting that Valve are increasing their Mac support while it's usage numbers fall
nyxkn: i always keep boxes; they're pretty :)
meklu: TylerGalt: My HD5770 runs native apps pretty much perfectly but WINE is a no-go. (CoD4 has framerates below 60.)
meklu: ^with fglrx, that is
TylerGalt: the thing is, since I've become a web developer, I don't play much anymore... so I wonder whether I should just get some entry-level card to play HD .mkvs and be done with it
TylerGalt: at the same time, it's cool when I can launch a game and play a little
TylerGalt: I was considering the NVIDIA GeForce GT 240 ( best PCI Express for around 75$ according to http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-radeon-hd-5570-gaming,2697-2.html ), but it seems to suck on Linux: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ecs_geforce_240&num=9
meklu: TylerGalt: I think the drivers are fixed now. Don't know though.
meklu: TylerGalt: If you intend to use WINE for games, go for nVidia.
TylerGalt: Are there enough native linux games?
TylerGalt: apart from World of Goo and Id Software games
meklu: Not much.
TylerGalt: meklu: and aside from native games, do you have any problems with videos / compiz-fusion?
TylerGalt: let's say I buy a card and decide not to use WINE, is it still useful to go for NVidia due to the driver?
TylerGalt: sorry, I meant: "aside from WINE games"
meklu: TylerGalt: Well, there's this "black-windows-bug" around that is quite irritating (introduced in 10.6, 10.5 should be fine). Compiz' water effect is non-functional. nVidia is better in terms of early support if you use the bleeding edge X and/or kernel. They also have functioning video acceleration.
TylerGalt: I think I'm going to avoid buying my roommate's card and just get a nvidia card
TylerGalt: even though his card is more powerful on paper / if I were using Windows
Kosava: what steam not will come to linux? http://www.webupd8.org/2010/08/official-statement-steam-not-coming-to.html
meklu: TylerGalt: Out of nVidia cards you should consider the 9800GT (essentially the same as 250GTS). It has quite decent performance.
meklu: s/9800GT/8800GT or 9800GT/
TylerGalt: cool, the price seems ok too
monreal: Kosava: big surprise
TylerGalt: the TomsHardware article also talks about the 9800 GT: "Yes, the $90 GeForce 9800 GT and Radeon HD 5670 are faster cards. However, it's impossible to recommend those cards at $90 when the powerful Radeon HD 4850 is still selling for $10 more. "
TylerGalt: they say they are not recommending it because of the Radeon HD 4850, but since I want a NVidia card for linux...
monreal: people have ponted out that valve interview but phoronix has still not reported it... even though it is the first official word from valve regarding linux for like, ever
gongoputch: So, Btrfs is 4000 times faster than ZFS.
giselher: says who?
mulvane: Is this one of those channels that blindly talks about linux technologies being superior to all others when the only thing they do is do it faster and ignores important factors like redundancy and data integrity as the primary goal?
gongoputch: mulvane: ya think?
mulvane: I've been told I do once in awhile.
gongoputch: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=btrfs_zfs_ssd&num=4 looks like ZFS scores zero on the threaded IO
gongoputch: if it IS zero, then Btrfs could be inifinetly faster
mulvane: There is NO way I would trust my media server to btrfs or ANY ext* filesystem.
gongoputch: was there ever an ext1?
mulvane: And considering I max out 2 gig-e connections with a zfs backed server, I think I am doing alright.
gongoputch: you can't be doing that kind of traffic to ZFS
mulvane: Pretty sure I can.
gongoputch: it has zero performance on threaded I/O !!!!
Daekdroom: gongoputch, ext without 1, to be accurate.
gongoputch: Daekdroom: ah.
mulvane: My media server is probably better equipped than most though.
mulvane: Any benchmarks on murderFS?
gongoputch: what would murderfs do to your data?
mulvane: It sure wouldn't send a keepalive
gongoputch: maybe a RST?
mulvane: Maybe a SIGHUP after it realized what it did and was remorseful?
gongoputch: SIGKILL .. SIGRESTART
mulvane: unrecoverable error. process is dead
gongoputch: coming to gitcha
Kano: michaellarabel: can you force firefox/iceweasel instead of using the default browser? konqueror or chrome do not show the results here
mulvane: And out of the darkness, the Zombie did call True pain and suffering he brought to them all Away ran the children to hide in their beds, for fear that the devil would chop off their heads
Kano: michaellarabel: but iceweasel is installed
michaellarabel: Kano: Yeah, edit ~/.phoronix-test-suite/user-config.xml
Kano: michaellarabel: why cant it be default?
Kano: or write code that shows in konqueror/chrome?
michaellarabel: Konqueror/Chrome is due to WebKit misbehaving with XSL.
Kano: i only see the xml ohne xsl with those browsers from hd
Kano: so please check for firefox, if there use it...
Kano: it has to work unconfigured, dont you think so?
gongoputch: http://www.phoronix.com/ seems to be a well populated add click site
mulvane: I love supporting FOSS anyway I can.
Kano: michaellarabel: when you put pts on a live iso with kde 4 then the experience is currently really bad
michaellarabel: because of Konqueror?
michaellarabel: Do you know if there's a easy way through xdg-open to find out what browser it defaults to without launching it? Then I could just blacklist konqueror...
Kano: but cant you call firefox when it is there?
Kano: firefox will work on debian too
michaellarabel: I did that before, and then some users complained since it wasn't their default
Kano: then do so when you see kde running?
Kano: also for your cpu speed you need to do that with a litte binary
michaellarabel: What little binary?
Kano: otherwise it always shows the wrong speed with my i5-680
michaellarabel: What does it report?
Kano: linux shows 3.33 ghz
Kano: but the correct value is 3.6 ghz
Kano: (+ turbo)
Kano: well you see 3.73 as +1 mhz and 3.86 as +2 mhz
Kano: but you can compile a small tool that will report the correct (or at least more correct speed)
michaellarabel: I am relying upon the sysfs interface
Kano: just that is incorrect
Samuel-NotAFK: Has anyone ever bought a game on Steam and not paid for it? It seems to have happened to me 2 days ago.
michaellarabel: In Git it tries to make sure not to launch Konqueror
Kano: will test
Kano: michaellarabel: also i get alowas a division by zero in pts_math.php on line 75
Kano: firefox was called, thats fine
DeathCrawler: ;-;, without steam
DeathCrawler: i hate valve
d3s3rt3gl: what's wrong with it? ;P
DeathCrawler: Fake hopes...
mulvane: gongoputch hey, i did a little test myself and zfs was faster.
mulvane: On my system anyway
d3s3rt3gl: jolicloud vs ubuntu netbook remix? ps. yes, i am new.
gongoputch: mulvane: did any file system have zero results?
mulvane: Well, fat32 was a non starter because it doesn't work on 16tB filesystems.