Nevtus: Bakou: still looking for arch help?
Nevtus: just install from the iso then when you've got the system running, sudo pacman -S xorg
Nevtus: you'd want to update everything first with sudo pacman -Syu though
djura-san: o/
RambJoe: what do i do when it says no more ptys
RambJoe: on screen
RambJoe: when i use root it works though
michaellarabel: 5,704 word Linux NVIDIA Fermi graphics review is set for Monday.
adm1: michaellarabel: I'm a fan of your work
adm1: you've advanced the ati/amd/linux cause for everyone, it's appreciated.
dandel: 0o' that's a lot of reading micheal.
dandel: and actually, amd caught the bug report for unigine heaven fairly fast :D (three days to confirm)
dandel: http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1873 (The question is how fast amd will fix this)
jimerickson: micheallarabel: thank you for the article on overclocking fermi on linux. very helpful!
michaellarabel: oooo good news Evergreen news any minute for open-source fans ;)
s_20: the gmail thing?
adrian_broher: steam?
Bakou: heh
Bakou: good enough news that im gonna dash out and install linux on my desktop w/ a 5850?
michaellarabel: open-source Evergreen 3D support :)
LinuxDonald: ?
michaellarabel: that's what was just released/
Bakou: is it gonna be in mesa 7.9?
Bakou: opengl 2.1?
LinuxDonald: opengl is already in mesa 7.9 devel version
LinuxDonald: opengl 2.1
Bakou: ya but not all drivers support it
Bakou: i dont think R600 gallium does
Bakou: interesting to me, cuz i might actually be tempted to play with linux on this PC
LinuxDonald: hehe i think r600g can not really 3d ....
Bakou: right now im using llvmpipe in an ubuntu vm guest
Bakou: i was trying to run vmwgfx but fricken ubuntu xorg edgers forgot to compile the module in their kernel
LinuxDonald: i´m using the r600 with mesa 7.9 devel version with fedora 14 alpha
Bakou: event hough they include the driver...
Bakou: how is it?
Bakou: i have 7.8 on my laptop w/ R600
LinuxDonald: some games works some not.....
Bakou: its not bad
Bakou: compiz has worked for a while
Bakou: but emerald still has some graphical glitches i think
LinuxDonald: i think it don´t like wine.....
Bakou: yeah that sucks :\
Bakou: i thought it would work better with wine with opengl 2.1 and the new glsl
Bakou: did you pull all that stuff in already?
LinuxDonald: maybe
LinuxDonald: no
Bakou: heh
Bakou: yeah that all happened like a week ago
Bakou: kinda wanna wait till mesa 7.9 final though
Bakou: maybe then wine will work
LinuxDonald: i´m wating that the mesa fedora maintainer upgrade the mesa package to an new git version
Bakou: i hope they are gonna start the R800 driver proper
Bakou: and use gallium3d
Bakou: i dont really get why they are doing the R600 one twice
Bakou: the performance is kinda disapointing
Bakou: im developing a 2d opengl game
Bakou: and it runs like 500 fps in windows
Bakou: then like 150~ fps on linux with mesa
Bakou: exact same machine
LinuxDonald: maybe mesa 8.0 will have better performence ...
Bakou: not sure why its so much lower
Bakou: maybe its that "tiling" support missing from the kernel
LinuxDonald: don´t have the ati driver tilling in git version?
Bakou: maybe, but im not using 2.6.36 yet
Bakou: kind of tired of using rc kernels
Bakou: i wish there was more documentation on all this
Bakou: like, what versions of each packages required for what features
Bakou: what is left to do
Bakou: what could be done to increase performance
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: and still no news post that EXA/Xv accel for evergreen is already commited to xf86-video-ati git master?
michaellarabel: Ivanovic: I am finishing up my 2D/3D article for it right now... Should be live in like 5 minutes
Ivanovic: LinuxDonald, Bakou: no need for r600g to use opengl 2.1 on the r6xx chips
Ivanovic: that is already available in the "classic" driver
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: ah, cool
Ivanovic: LinuxDonald, Bakou: though i am already able to start sacred-gold using the r600g driver (though eg glxgears does segfault)
michaellarabel: Plus Radeon HD 6000 open-source details ;)
Ivanovic: hey, cool!
Bakou: yeah but the classic driver just seems way too slow
Bakou: compared to the windows driver
Ivanovic: yeah, currently i play with the idea of getting me an hd6000 card once it is out (and shows a good performance for a decent price) together with some basic open source drivers
Ivanovic: Bakou: the r600g driver is no fast at the moment than r600 classic
Bakou: i assume the gallium version would be much better optimized
Ivanovic: and it will take a while till it is optimized
Ivanovic: first you will get some basic functionality, speed is "later"
Ivanovic: (and the speed of the closed source windows driver will most likely never be reached! if you want this speed, use catalyst)
Bakou: i dont see why it would never be reached...
Bakou: catalyst on linux is much slower than on windows too
Ivanovic: high speed requires *lots* of optimization
Bakou: its not like the nv drivers that are about the same
Ivanovic: uhm, looking at the benchmarks from phoronix it seems as if the drivers are basically on par for stuff you can directly compare (as in "a native open gl engine used")
Ivanovic: sure, if you compare some thing that is done using wine as direct3d wrapper: yeah, there speed might differ significantly
michaellarabel: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=15215
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: do you have a link to the article with the performance comparision between windows and linux using catalyst at hand?
Bakou: so the 3d code will be merged to mesa 7.9 master?
Bakou: but it may or may not actually work..?
Bakou: lol
Ivanovic: Bakou: have a look at this comparison: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part1&num=1
Ivanovic: the systems PX4, AX3 and OPT are using ati cards with the catalyst driver
Bakou: hmm
Bakou: yeah
Bakou: it seems like catalyst has improved a lot
Bakou: since i last used it
Bakou: it used to be quite terrible
Ivanovic: yes, there are cases where the linux catalyst is worse than teh windows driver
Ivanovic: but that is a difference in the three digit area
Ivanovic: so not really important, if you ask me
Ivanovic: (as in: what is the difference between seeing 500fps and 200fps?)
Ivanovic: regarding 3d speed the catalyst driver should be really okay (as long as you don't use wine, no idea what the status is there)
Bakou: yeah, there should be more graphical intensive tests
Ivanovic: though there are known "issues" like tearing in xv stuff
Bakou: could test more intense games such as doom3, quake4 and so on
Ivanovic: issues that don't exist in the open source driver
Ivanovic: Bakou: even those games have an extreme cpu limit these days
Bakou: wine test would be good too
Ivanovic: i tested it with etqw when i got my 3850
Bakou: wine performance is quite important to gamers
Ivanovic: the speed was perfectly playable at 1920x1200
Ivanovic: (well above 60fps all the time)
Bakou: it will be more important when steam comes to linux
Bakou: but like, certain things in wine make sense to test
Bakou: like starcraft 2
Daekdroom: But Steam Games will run natively.
Daekdroom: Or, well, that's what makes sense, atleast.
Ivanovic: currently the most taxing engine available for windows is basically the unigine demo stuff
Bakou: yeah tehy well, thats why the benchmarks will be more interesting
Ivanovic: and looking at unigine demo stuff: the linux system beats the windows one on all ati boxes: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part1&num=7
Bakou: yeah its surprising ><
Ivanovic: that is: basically the same regarding sanctuary as well as tropics (next page)
Ivanovic: okay, unigine heaven shows some more interesting results: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part1&num=9
Bakou: i guess i need to stop hating on catalyst so much
Ivanovic: though those are still rather comparable
Bakou: although its still a pain since it only supports old kernels and old xorg
Bakou: i tried to use it about 2 years ago
Bakou: and it was just so frustrating
Bakou: i swore iw ould never use catalyst on linux again
Ivanovic: it always does support the latest released ubuntu version
Bakou: heh
Ivanovic: yes, that one does often lag behind, i know
Bakou: whens the next ubuntu supposed to be out?
Daekdroom: 10/10/10
Ivanovic: october
Bakou: maybe ill try it then
Daekdroom: ATI should backport a ATI Catalyst release compile specially for ubuntu before then.
Daekdroom: *compiled
Ivanovic: Daekdroom: backport?
Ivanovic: why?
Bakou: more like forwardport
Bakou: lol
Ivanovic: it will be one of the normal (beta) releases that ubuntu does always get
Daekdroom: Yeah, more like forwardport.
Ivanovic: tough IIRC xorg-server 1.8 support was already added in the 10.7 catalyst
Bakou: forwardport is what they need to work on
Bakou: they like to work on 9 month old code
Bakou: and it causes everyone a lot of problems
Ivanovic: and from there xorg-server 1.9 should not be far off either
Ivanovic: Bakou: having it work with the bleeding edge is a shitload of work if you try to use the stuff provided by the open source stack
Ivanovic: that is: the nvidia driver basically replaces all the xorg stuff that is there (interfaces, acceleration architecture and whatnot)
Ivanovic: ati is closer to this open source stack and tries to make use of it, though this does require more changes when things in xorg do change, than the nvidia driver that basically replaces everything
Bakou: well im not sure exactly what they do
Bakou: but i much prefer nvidia drivers
Bakou: in windows as well
Bakou: far more useful
Bakou: better support for custom resolutions
Ivanovic: i only boot windows for gaming (fallout3, dragon age, drakensang, stuff like this)
Bakou: CUDA is good
Ivanovic: doing nothing beside gaming there, so i don't give a s*** about other stuff
Bakou: too annoying to maintain 2 different installs just for gaming
Ivanovic: and yeah, since i got an lcd screen i tend to play in the res this screen has
Bakou: sigh
Bakou: i like to be able to work then switch to gaming on a whim
Bakou: thats why im running linux in vmware now :\
Ivanovic: no, i just boot windows when i want to do some (longer) gaming
Bakou: someday i wish i could just use linux
Bakou: maybe when wine supports dx10
Ivanovic: the rest (serious work and the likes) is linux only, windows is simply unusable for this for me by now
Bakou: and steam is on linux
Bakou: it will be possible
Ivanovic: whenever i got to do anything in windows, i feel so crippled
Bakou: haha
Bakou: its hard to develop in windows
Ivanovic: no powerful tools available and the likes
Bakou: you can use cygwin
Bakou: but its not the same
Bakou: ssh and vim sucks in cygwin
Ivanovic: i can just boot linux and have all the tools right at hand
Bakou: but still, maintaining 2 OS installs is a pain
Bakou: doesnt matter which they are
Ivanovic: no matter if it is a bash with some easy to do scripting, or decent text editors like kate (or vim for smaller stuff in the terminal)
Bakou: need to multi task
Bakou: downloading, development, gaming
Ivanovic: Bakou: not much of maintaining for windows if you don't do anything but gaming
Bakou: sometimes all together
Daekdroom: I don't like booting two separated systems because you can't keep track of routine tasks like checking email and feeds using a program.
Bakou: yeah
Bakou: if you start a torrent in one os
Ivanovic: and yeah, when i game i don't check mails on that system, don't chat, don't *whatever*
Bakou: its quite a pain to try to continue the download on the other
Daekdroom: Precisely.
Bakou: maintaining music playlist
Ivanovic: if i wanted to do so in parallel i boot my laptop where i got kde and the likes
Bakou: you need the same playlist wether your gaming or working
Bakou: but there are like no tools to sync them
Bakou: really annoying
Bakou: thats why im sticking with vmware right now
Bakou: it fits my needs much better
Ivanovic: and you effectively don't have to maintain two systems when running one of them in a VM?
Daekdroom: Ivanovic, by running both at the same time, you may keep all your stuff seperately and still have access to them
Ivanovic: maintaining my windows system is nothing but having it installed and setup, security updates aredone using wsus offline update (downloading the files on linux)
Ivanovic: lets test how well r600g runs now... brb
Ivanovic: okay, clear case of "not good", does not allow me to start kde (screen turning itself off), something seems to be broken...
Ivanovic: ;)
Bakou: i have to maintain 2
Bakou: but only one for development
Bakou: and one for everything else
Bakou: theres no crossover
Bakou: i can still be downloading/playing mp3s on the windows host while i do linux dev
Bakou: thats the main thing really
Rambjoe: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16637075&posted=1#post16637075
Bakou: nice
r4: :o
Rambjoe: :D
Rambjoe: im gonna check this myself
Rambjoe: STEAM FOR LINUX CONFIRMED :D
r4: :o
r4: confirmed means nothing!
r4: confirmed doesnt mean i can play yet!
r4: :P
Rambjoe: yah the file is there
Bakou: man they already got it working in opengl
Bakou: they should hurry the hell up
Rambjoe: their marketer said its nor coming to linux
Rambjoe: but now i seen this
Rambjoe: i dont belive it
Bakou: i dont really get why blizzard wont release their games on linux too
Bakou: they have opengl versions for mac
Rambjoe: wtf
Bakou: whats so great about macs~
Bakou: theyre way worse for gaming than linux
Bakou: worse drivers
Bakou: slower os
Rambjoe: what graphics card do you have
Bakou: radeon 5850
Rambjoe: is it good on linux
Bakou: nto really..
Rambjoe: i might get a 5870 or something
Rambjoe: oh :(
r4: iirc ati cards are bad news for linux
Bakou: well, to be honest i didnt try it
Rambjoe: ffs nvidia cards have also price:performance
Rambjoe: awful*
Daekdroom: iirc gfx cards are bad news overall for linux
Bakou: right now i would get a GTX460
Rambjoe: i was thinking of that
Bakou: nvidia just have better drivers
Rambjoe: or a slightly better one
Bakou: on windows and on linux
Rambjoe: but they are worse cards
r4: Daekdroom: nvidia has pretty good drivers
Bakou: apparently catalyst is way better than it used to be
Bakou: but im not convinced it really works properly
Rambjoe: wait lol that file is in
Bakou: like with wine and stuff
Rambjoe: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\no1joeno1\counterstrike source beta
Rambjoe: yaeh a few months a go
Rambjoe: with a 4870
Rambjoe: i got like 1fps on cs 1.6
Bakou: yeah see that wouldnt happen with nvidia drivers
Rambjoe: notepad sucks
Rambjoe: for somereasons on loads of files
Rambjoe: it doesn't have new lines
Bakou: ill start getting excited bout ati in linux when i see the R600 driver running dx9 programs with wine
Rambjoe: like on this linux css server i had this file had new lines
Rambjoe: opened it in notepad when i got it from ftps and some of the maps weren't on a nwe line
Rambjoe: does it have a different way of a new line or sometihng
Rambjoe: yeah that hl2.sh file was added 20/8/2010
white_magic: hi
white_magic: what would you guys recommend for installing steam? wine or some other solution?
white_magic: which is the least buggy?
white_magic: i think playonlinux might just be the best
RambJoe: should be native soon :D
RambJoe: when you install it check the css beta folder
RambJoe: for a file called hl2.sh
white_magic: yea i heard about that
white_magic: but there is also this other thing called 'valve time'...
RambJoe: yeah
RambJoe: and they haven't even announced it yet so
white_magic: i never have my hopes up. it would be incredible if they came through, but it would be even better if it happened in my lifetime
RambJoe: i hope they atleast announce it before portal 2 is out
RambJoe: as i really wanna buy it
RambJoe: but i said to my self dont by from them before they announce linux
white_magic: well the 1 other thing i learned is never buy games as they come out
white_magic: valve has some amazing sales
white_magic: err steam does
RambJoe: yeah
RambJoe: quake had a good deal the other day
white_magic: quake 1?
RambJoe: it was all of them
RambJoe: except 4 i think
RambJoe: it was like £3 or something like that
white_magic: hey, i just installed playonlinux and it tells me that a newer version is available. how do i update it? synaptic? (i'm using ubuntu)
RambJoe: maybe £5
RambJoe: how did you install it
white_magic: using synaptic
RambJoe: oh
CME: no hl2.sh here
RambJoe: in the beta folder?
RambJoe: try using gfcscape in the engine files in steamapps
CME: $ strings counter-strike\ source\ beta\ engine.gcf | grep "hl2\.sh"
CME: hl2.sh
CME: ah
RambJoe: :D
RambJoe: [joe@joe counterstrike source beta]$ killall X
RambJoe: bash: /usr/bin/killall: Input/output error
RambJoe: oh god wtf have i done
RambJoe: [joe@joe ~]$ sudo pacman -Syu
RambJoe: Password:
RambJoe: sudo: Can't open /var/lib/sudo/joe/4: Read-only file system
RambJoe: brb rebootin
CME: just remount it rw
RambJoe: how
CME: mount /dev/whatever / -o rw,remount
RambJoe: ok thanks
RambJoe: i didn't even chagne anything though
RambJoe: only thing i've done is chown joe /srv/http/somesite
RambJoe: won't work says right protected
RambJoe: this drive is annoying me :(
RambJoe: had to replug my harddrive
RambJoe: this is no coincidence thay my drive happened to mess up when
RambJoe: i have a ntfs partition moutned
RambJoe: amirite
mikeplus64: It shouldn't be.
mikeplus64: I have a NTFS HDD mounted on my desktop that works fine with everything else.
shadowsun: yawns
shadowsun: I had my 1TB drive as NTFS because I carried it out of a win7 system
shadowsun: Worked for some months
shadowsun: It runs ext4 now, for now
RambJoe: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=126932903 lol wut