Phoronix IRC Log: 2010-06-08
mikeplus64: "Comments include different opinions and experiences on PulseAudio, GStreamer, ALSA, and SDL. This very heated and lively discussion can be found here. Though having already confirmed Steam and the Source Engine are coming to Linux via our sources, don't expect any delays like this over any Linux audio framework. While the status quo may not be ideal, this hasn't stopped other game companies like id Software from
mikeplus64: bringing their titles to Linux in the past. "
mikeplus64: I sincerely hope for Michael's sake if nothing more that "our sources" are valid.
Ivanovic: the sources have never stated any estimates
Ivanovic: so "in 10 years" would still be valid...
Nevtus: until the source is posted it's meaningless to say that
Ivanovic: Nevtus: if it is someone internally at valve there is no way to post a "source" beside "we know someone there"
Ivanovic: Nevtus: since you seem to only accept a source that is called "official press announcement"
Ivanovic: (yeah, bad old days when there was no official press announcement that hundreds of sites just copied...)
Ivanovic: Nevtus: btw have you found the time to test gentoo?
Nevtus: if you can't name the source with the information, the information is worthless to anyone else. Newspapers do this all the time too with "a police source said", "a hospital source said" and if it turns out to be wrong no one can be held accountable
Ivanovic: the problem is that you got a source and there is no way to name it
Ivanovic: or would "john doe, 36, employee at valve said" be better?
mikeplus64: Ivanovic: Yes, please.
mikeplus64: Also credit card details...
Ivanovic: mikeplus64: sadly those are not possible or you would never again hear from those sources
Nevtus: you can write about it, but you can't say it's offical or definite. You certainly can't expect people to take your word for it
Ivanovic: in general: you can either just rely on official press annoucements or print information from your sources where you can't link anything
Ivanovic: just reprinting press announcements does IMO suck
Ivanovic: though yeah, the style that michael often uses for the posts is, uhm, extremely positive
Ivanovic: some calmer posts like "our sources at valve state that there will most likely be a linux release of ABC" would be better
mikeplus64: There should be a direct quote. ( that isn't just tiny pieces of what they said mangled to mean whatever-it-is-that-you-want )
s_20: Nevtus: given valve's policy cocerning their business strategies i doubt the "source" would keep their job for much longer if their name were exposed
Ivanovic: the problem is that michael has to life from something, for him this is revenue via ads on the website
Ivanovic: and those headlines with "things are definite" cause more clicks and thuse more income
Nevtus: this doesn't really apply in rather trivial issues like this, but the unnamable source is a strong weapon for getting FUD/self-advertising out and in newspapers
Nevtus: s_20: saying you got info from a mole is fine. Saying the mole *offically* confirmed it is wrong
s_20: point taken.
Ivanovic: hi michaellarabel
michaellarabel: Hi Ivanovic
Ivanovic: what leads you to germany?
michaellarabel: LinuxTag and the beer, of course.
Ivanovic: and i already hoped that you had to be at the E3 on june 14th for valves huge surprise (the surprise being a cake for linux users)
michaellarabel: I don't get back to the US until the 16th or 17th. Germany takes precedence over any gaming event.
s_20: i sadly remember the good old days when linuxtag was still down here in karlsruhe
michaellarabel: I wish it would be over in Munich...
Ivanovic: ah, berlin is really okay
Ivanovic: you can get a quite good currywurst in some areas of berlin
s_20: you can indeed
Ivanovic: and when i was last in berlin there was a really decent small pub/brewery close to the townhall
michaellarabel: And good doner kebaps.
michaellarabel: the townhall that is near Alexanderplatz?
s_20: michaellarabel: that's a amtter of ongoing debate ;)
Ivanovic: i think this one was the pub: http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Rotes+Rathaus,+Rathausstra%C3%9Fe,+Berlin&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=24.291552,28.037109&ie=UTF8&hq=Berliner+Rathaus&hnear=Berliner+Rathaus,+Rathausstra%C3%9Fe+15,+Berlin&ll=52.516453,13.405396&spn=0.002866,0.003422&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A
michaellarabel: Aha Ivanovic. I saw that on the bus today as there is a "Ratskeller" in the basement obviously and it caught my intention as I like the Ratskeller in Munich
Ivanovic: though this was some years ago
Ivanovic: but appearantly they brew their own beer
michaellarabel: Good cause I hate the Becks and Berlinder Kindl, etc.
s_20: what's wrong with becks? :(
michaellarabel: I only drink it in Berlin. There's so many other good German beers besides Becks.
Ivanovic: and regarding döner: you basically get good ones in most parts of germany
Ivanovic: (that is: especially eg in the ruhr metropolitan area)
Ivanovic: in dortmund you get a decent one close to the central station for about 2.50€
s_20: you only seem to get yufka kebab in the south though
michaellarabel: Well, most any kebap in Germany is always better than in the US, which are incredibly hard to find anyways there.
s_20: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Dürüm_dönner.jpg/450px-Dürüm_dönner.jpg <- it's a wrap.. sort of
Ivanovic: hehe, what the mexicans are in the south of the us are the turkish people over here
s_20: once you go yufka you don't look back ;)
Ivanovic: just that they tend to open by far more fast food "restaurants"
Ivanovic: s_20: you should not visit the closest dönerbude to my home
Ivanovic: there they got all the lovely stuff
Ivanovic: no matter if lahmacun, dürüm or döner
s_20: haha.. have you seen the newest thing? the kebab box?
Ivanovic: and the best is: they do bake the bread themselves and lahmacun and dürüm are produced on demand (that is you get it right out of the oven, not out of a microwave)
Ivanovic: yeah, got this strange stuff over here, too
Ivanovic: but who would take this when they got great bread that they bake themselves?!?
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: you should eventually really come over to the ruhr metropolitan area
Ivanovic: (not cologne, but more like dortmund, essen, bochum, ...)
Ivanovic: here you get good beer as well as a good selection of international food (no matter if italian, greek, turkish or asian)
s_20: i was amazed how many chinese restaurants there are in berlin
s_20: (i was there for new years)
michaellarabel: s_20: I was there for Silvester too. Yeah there's a lot.
s_20: the brandenburger tor was way overrated though
s_20: the closest we got was about 500 metres, the place was just packed
michaellarabel: That's why you have parties at houses for most of the time... Though when we went there we got like 100 meters away just in time for midnight, but we took a shortcut through the woods.
s_20: i thought the woods were off limits
michaellarabel: there were fences, but you know there are ways to work around that issue :)
s_20: and there was like 1 metre of snow
s_20: i wouldn't be surprised if there were wolves roaming around too.......
kbios: Konversation 1.3.0!
Morten_: changelog or it didn't happen!
kbios: Morten_: http://konversation.kde.org/
Morten_: thanks :p
Morten_: oh man, im using an old version..
Ivanovic: kaffeine 1.0!
kbios: Also: KDE Partition manager 1.1 (coming soon) & K3b 2.0 RC3 (a few days ago)
kbios: Good times for KDE
s_20: the 4.5 feature set will be rather meagre though
mikeplus64: Stability is nice.
kbios: Yeah, they'll focus more on bugfixing (which is a Good Thing)
s_20: i suppose you're right, but i'm also always in favour of feautres ;)
kbios: Features are also a Good Thing :-)
mikeplus64: With KWin going to support tiling then I think there isn't tooooo much more that I can think of from the top of my head that I'd like KDE to have other than stability.
kbios: Well, I think there is some more work to do about login time. See https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuMaverickFasterLogin for example
s_20: integrated pritner setup in system settings would be nice too (which i understand didn't make it into 4.5)
kbios: Unless you use HPLIP :-))
Ivanovic: i wish there was a nice sip client like twinkle is/once was
Ivanovic: the problem with twinkle being that it is qt3 only...
s_20: ooh.. and somehow making knetworkmanager properly set up umts/hsdpa connections, i wasn't very impressed and hat to fall back to umtsmon, which is a major PITA
kbios: Yes, also I never succeded in using knetworkmanager with wpa2. I needed to use network-maanager-gnome (= slow startup)
s_20: ooh.. right, it looked so promising :(
s_20: correctly recognised the local networks and let me enter all the credentials but just wouldn't connect, and back i went to fiddling with /etc/network/interfaces myself
Ivanovic: hmm, i tend to use wpasupplicant on my laptop
Ivanovic: shutting the network down == rmmod iwl3945
kbios: The good old way :-)
Ivanovic: having a list of access points to connect to in the wpasupplicant conf file is enough
Ivanovic: modprobe iwl3945, waiting a little and, *ding*, there is my network connection, just like i want it
s_20: Ivanovic: it automatically starts wpasupplicant if you statically enter your key/SSID in /etc/network/interfaces
s_20: (and of course kill network-manager, bloody thing never worked for me)
Ivanovic: never used network-manager
Rednaxela: always had issues with network-manager, such as the way that it doesn't connect when logged out
Rednaxela: finds WICD massively preferable
mikeplus64: likes Wicd.
Rednaxela: Wicd just plain works when it comes to everything... and is faster... and can start network before login, etc
s_20: i wonder if network-manager actually works for anyone.
Rednaxela: Only thing I find Wicd doesn't work so great for, is the more esoteric wireless auth configs, as one needs to create a custom config file for those
Rednaxela: (since Wicd keeps a list of auth systems that it thinks are common, but some common ones aren't in the default list)
giselher: lol http://steamunpowered.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/cmToK.jpg
somename: captain patchy... lol
mastertheknife: anyone plays tf2?
mastertheknife: giselher: LOL
cmol: mastertheknife: with cmol as username. Just not right now :P Add if you like :)
mastertheknife: cmol: cool.. i'm new to it, only got it for few days
mastertheknife: originally wanted to wait for linxu client before buying but couldnt wait anymore
cmol: gotta go. have fun guys
mastertheknife: so far i pretty much only play in one server, it has a map called eygpt.. know it ?
mastertheknife: see ya
giselher: mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1298096
mastertheknife: giselher: thanks :)
mastertheknife: giselher: you sure? doesnt work
mastertheknife: probably deleted
Midler: i cant see it either
Midler: mastertheknife: add midler
Midler: i can reboot, and we can play if u want to
Midler: however, i like l4d more
giselher: mastertheknife: It really is deleted omg
giselher: but I have it open :D
mastertheknife: I also have L4D but dont know.. tf2 runs better through wine
mastertheknife: and seems more fun
mastertheknife: i love the engineer and the spy
giselher: It's about "Valve is releasing Duke Nukem Forever"
giselher: The source is 4chan :D
mastertheknife: oh i saw that thread in general forum but didnt read it
mastertheknife: steam unpowered, lol
Midler: iam waiting to be able to pay for l4d2
Midler: tf2 is just ... funky in some way
Midler: not hard
Midler: not realistic
mastertheknife: giselher: interesting! so that is probably the suprise
giselher: For some reason I really think they're announcing Steam for linux or Duke Nukem Forever
giselher: or both
Midler: however, if the number is a date
mastertheknife: heh if you are looking for realstic games you should try America's Army 2.X
Midler: its not in the 14th
mastertheknife: I was a long time 2.X player but 3.0 is terrible in my opinion
mastertheknife: well if the suprise is on the 14th then its not the suprise
mastertheknife: Midler: i think TF2 is way cooler than CSS, i wonder how comes CSS has more players
mastertheknife: tf2 is probably less known
giselher: June will be an awesome month, we get Steam for linux, Duke Nukem Forever and I get my HTC Desire with Android 2.1 :D
Midler: hopefully, magic will get 2.2 update
mastertheknife: giselher: i hope
mastertheknife: hey june 14th is not that far after all
mastertheknife: time passes so fast, thats just 6 days away
giselher: Midler: I think will get an update a soon as they ported the Sense UI to 2.2
Nevtus: 6 days from disappointment. again. can't wait!
Midler: giselher: ye, u are probleby right
Midler: i hate the status to buy apps in eu is
Midler: almost one year
Midler: and still cant buy
Midler: where i live
giselher: At least the Desire gets released in Austria, the nexus one didn't got released in germany and austria
mastertheknife: is steam friends and cloud down?
FireEgl: mastertheknife: looks like
mastertheknife: Seems like it is
debris: Anybody have a feel for the Mac Steam rollout? Are Mac users liking Steam?
Nevtus: all I've read is people moaning about the UI not being like Steve Jobs mind
debris: I'm hoping it goes well so Valve has a reason to keep going with the Linux client
Ivanovic: from what i heard about 8% of the steam users are already on osx
Ivanovic: so yeah, i'd say that they like it...
MPX: I doubt people moaning has anything to do with whatever future decision valve is taking
MPX: I bet they'll take money over what people think anyday
s_20: MPX: complaining about something and actually doing/boycotting something can be mutually exclusive concepts indeed
MPX: Not to be a jerk
MPX: But that's not how business work
MPX: People will not boycott because of what some users think
MPX: If Valve makes money on OSX
MPX: Valve will continue to support OSX
mastertheknife: They are still porting games to the Mac slowly
MPX: Yes well
mastertheknife: I believe the porting is a single time job
MPX: I really doubt it's a personal agenda
mastertheknife: the newest engine exists on the mac, all needed is to port the games to the newest engine with case sensitivity in mind and lots of testing on both platforms
MPX: I doubt that at a board meeting gabe went "Well, we'll support OSX, but since we don't like it, we'll do it slowly"
mastertheknife: TF2 should be the next game to come to OS X
MPX: It was probably at the time he checked his bank account
s_20: i think it's rather interesting that any source multiplayer game is yet to appear
mastertheknife: I think Valve could make money with Linux
MPX: I think so to
MPX: And they WOULD
somename: could? they _WILL_
MPX: But would they make enough? I think so, but are they willing to take their bets?
mastertheknife: Has much more potential for being a gaming platform, free, good drivers and opengl support and can change hardware
mastertheknife: I think the linux client will have more players than the Mac one, although maybe not in the first 6 months
s_20: mastertheknife: i kinda hope they'll ahve it as a "second class" platform, because right now it'd be next to impossible to create such a "smooth" experience as on the ohter platforms
s_20: the altnerative would be a seemingly endless beta phase
s_20: and thus spoke the prophet.
MPX: Hehe yeah I could see that coming
MPX: Endless beta phase...would be typical *laughs*
mastertheknife: I dont mind it being in beta
mastertheknife: because that means it will be released someday
s_20: i can already see them pulling a google
mastertheknife: unlike now when we dont know anything
MPX: Where does "endless" fit in there mastertheknife ?
s_20: wasn't gmail "in beta" for about 5 years?
mastertheknife: gmail lol
mastertheknife: I believe the reason gmail was in beta was because Google wasn't sure if they could cope with it, giving 1GB mailboxes to everyone at that time was insane
mastertheknife: I had 2 MB hotmail account when gmail came out with 1GB
mastertheknife: and my ISP's mailbox was 10 MB
s_20: haha.. yah i remember those times
s_20: it worked suprisingly well
mastertheknife: I remember one crying for invites
mastertheknife: When i managed to get my account, i only got 3 invites
mastertheknife: was hard to decide who to give it to
s_20: it was the bee's knees.
MPX: Yeah...gmails 1gb...wow that was a blast!
s_20: i wonder if this gmailfs project still exists
mastertheknife: gmailfs lol
mastertheknife: i remember it
s_20: "As of May 16, 2010, a fork of GmailFS now exists that uses IMAP."
mastertheknife: With these characters, they need to make a tf2 movie
somename: are many plasmoids are performance issue on KDE?
mastertheknife: Not that i know of
mastertheknife: I only use the CPU and RAM widgets
somename: seems that gnome 3.0 will just be a polished up gnome 2
monreal: can someone recommend a cheap (about 50€) sound card with good alsa driver and pulseaudio compatibility?
FliPPeh: 80€, Creative Soundblaster X-Fi
monreal: last I read about the x-fis was "avoid at all cost"
FliPPeh: It works fine here
monreal: did the driver situation improve?
FliPPeh: Except for stuff like the crystalizer
FliPPeh: But that's a non-issue for me
Daekdroom: Doesn't it become kinda overpriced if you can't use such features?
FliPPeh: I bought it before I migrated to linux
FliPPeh: But it's still working :)
monreal: wow loks like there are about 20 different x-fis
monreal: actually, 4 completely different chipsets are being used
FliPPeh: needs steam now
FliPPeh: Sick of using Wine :)
mastertheknife: dreams of running L4D and TF2 natively
robotti^: mastertheknife: keep dreaming!
robotti^: Valve releases Duke Nukem Forever this summer
robotti^: and for linux also?
robotti^: nobody here?
meGenius: everybody are here
mastertheknife: feel free to add to my post :P
mastertheknife: robotti^: Who knows :P
RambJoe: opengl 2.1 :|
mastertheknife: Source 3? whats wrong with current engine?
robotti^: maybe valve releases duke nukem
mastertheknife: I really like the current engine
mastertheknife: Valve needs to understand that not everything is graphics...
robotti^: mastertheknife: maybe they make it even better
RambJoe: probably something to do with opengl
RambJoe: if true
s_20: mastertheknife: i dont think it's handling open worlds all that well
RambJoe: so its easier to make it cross platform and optimimized for opengl
mastertheknife: Yeah Valve should make it OpenGL only and forget about Direct3D
RambJoe: there's is so many people on forums saying
RambJoe: omg i hope its a new source engine with directx 11
robotti^: RambJoe: never going to happen :)
RambJoe: good :)
RambJoe: makes me facepalm when i read it
RambJoe: like the mac client never happaned or something
s_20: it doesn't mean that source engine 2 couldn't have support for multiple renderers, like goldsrc had
mastertheknife: but goldsrc direct3d's render didnt work well
s_20: one of them could possibly be dx11
mastertheknife: the opengl one was faster and simply better, probably because the engine was built from start as opengl engine
s_20: mastertheknife: how exactly is that relevant 12 years later? ;)
robotti^: RambJoe: that directx 11
mastertheknife: to be honest, no idea why Valve added Direct3D renderer to goldsrc, whats the point?
mastertheknife: OpenGL worked well
robotti^: yes. that is very odd.
mastertheknife: it was probably because of marketing FUD and they thought the engine having d3d will increase sales
mastertheknife: (microsoft marketing FUD of DirectX)
robotti^: prey and doom3 were ported for linux
robotti^: I am just ordering prey
robotti^: and install it for linux
robotti^: and then doom 3
FliPPeh: What about the modern source?
FliPPeh: Where does it use OpenGL?
FliPPeh: As far as I've seen from when I played activly, there's only DirectX
Ivanovic: on WINDOWS there is only directx
FliPPeh: MacOS uses OpenGL, that's for sure
FliPPeh: But was it there from the beginning?
FliPPeh: Or did they add it for mac?
Ivanovic: in the OSX version: sure
Ivanovic: in the source engine itself: no, this was added later on
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: it doesnt, and even later, its just a wrapper that wraps DX9 calls to OpenGL
mastertheknife: and only available for Mac
mastertheknife: rbarris (Valve's contractor for the OpenGL module) even said so himself, He said his library presents directx9 interface to the engine and translates those calls into OpenGL calls
mastertheknife: Thats probably better than wine
Ivanovic: just a matter of how deep they go
Ivanovic: if it is well done it is most likely better than wine
robotti^: Then it is not native?
Ivanovic: if it is badly done, then it is worse than wine
Ivanovic: robotti^: you get native code
FliPPeh: Native is all that counts for me
Ivanovic: basically some translator doing the translation from directx to opengl
FliPPeh: Wine isn't that slow
robotti^: Ivanovic: but not totally native opengl software
FliPPeh: But not playable for anything but gmod
FliPPeh: And this IS good hardware
mastertheknife: its probably better, because he has the code to some parts of the engine
mastertheknife: and in the forums he said he is constantly profiling the code to optimize it
mastertheknife: And he is contracted for it, this means he will probably keep working on it for another few years
mastertheknife: Wine's is actually not bad with -dxlevel 81
mastertheknife: but directx9 is usually unplayable
FliPPeh: I think they should hire some top unix hackers to do their porting... but trust in another issue :)
mastertheknife: but it greatly improved, i remember trying to play a dx9 game with wine about 1-2 years ago, got around 1-5 fps, now its ~30 fps
FliPPeh: Native Steamgames like Day of Defeat Source on windows run with about 150 - 200 FPS
FliPPeh: Wine does it with 120 fps
FliPPeh: But it's still sluggish
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: what -dxlevel ?
mastertheknife: well its not wine only
mastertheknife: it has to do with video graphics too
FliPPeh: Also, the default UI is the horror for wine
FliPPeh: It draws many many artefacts on my desktop
mastertheknife: Linux ones are slower, especially ATI's drivers
FliPPeh: I've got the newest nvidia driver here.. it's pretty good
FliPPeh: Runs native games with 200
FliPPeh: Sauerbraten for example
mastertheknife: Yeah nvidia ones are very good
FliPPeh: But let's not take it as a performance example :)
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: what games you play on steam ?
FliPPeh: mastertheknife: I used to play lots of Gmod, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead and Day of Defeat Source
FliPPeh: Especially TF2 and DoD:S :)
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: oh.. i have about 20 games but usually only play CS 1.6, L4D and now bought TF2 this week
robotti^: FliPPeh: using linux?
FliPPeh: robotti^: Using Linux I only got Gmod to run.. and a very slow DoD :(
mastertheknife: I never tried DoD, i can install DoD (goldsrc) but its probably outdated
FliPPeh: TF2 fails with some ressource error
FliPPeh: Oh yes
mastertheknife: TF2 runs so nice here
FliPPeh: DoD goldsrc is really old
FliPPeh: I gotte try hard and get Wine configured so TF2 runs
mastertheknife: I'm playing windowed 1440x900 (on my 1680x1050 screen) and it works well. fullscreen crashed few times
FliPPeh: Maybe update my wine, too
FliPPeh: Fullscreen is an issue here
FliPPeh: Dual-Monitor :/
mastertheknife: I can play 4 hours in a row without problems
FliPPeh: Works well for native apps, but not so for steam
mastertheknife: but full screen i didnt try that long
mastertheknife: I prefer windowed anyway because i like switching applications
FliPPeh: mastertheknife: Did you set any special settings in winecfg, or the registry to improve graphics?
FliPPeh: Yes, windowed is nicer :)
mastertheknife: I use these options with TF2 and almost all Source games (except L4D which is locked to dx9)
mastertheknife: -dxlevel 81 -noforcemspd -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel -windowed -width 1440 -height 900
mastertheknife: TF2 what are your favorite tf2 classes?
mastertheknife: robotti^: Gabe confirmed its fake
robotti^: mastertheknife: sad :)
FliPPeh: mastertheknife: I switch all the time, but I like scouting, engineering and some medic works
mastertheknife: FliPPeh* my bad, lol
mastertheknife: Oh.. I tried medic once, but no idea what the 2nd weapon does
mastertheknife: the one that makes the ubercharge goes up
mastertheknife: I mostly played as Engineer and Spy
FliPPeh: 2nd weapon?
FliPPeh: That's the medigun.
robotti^: mastertheknife: are they releasing something june 18th?
mastertheknife: I thought you only needed to stand next to a medic to become healed ?
FliPPeh: mastertheknife: How are you starting steam?
mastertheknife: robotti^: No idea
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: click a shortcut on my desktop
FliPPeh: "WINEDEBUG="fixme-all" wine "C:\\Programme\\Steam\\Steam.exe" <- mine
FliPPeh: Command line
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: did you copy Steam from windows? lol
FliPPeh: I downloaded the setup
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: I installed it through wine
FliPPeh: And wine-installed it!
mastertheknife: env WINEPREFIX="/home/kfir/.wine" wine "C:\Program Files\Steam\steam.exe"
FliPPeh: C:\\ == ~/.wine/drive_c/
mastertheknife: L4D: env WINEPREFIX="/home/kfir/.wine" wine "C:\Program Files\Steam\steam.exe" -applaunch 500
christian_lappy: when the heck is shitty windows games e3
Ivanovic: christian_lappy: this year it will be windows and linux games e3
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: What is the uber charge for?
Ivanovic: at least on valves side
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: I noticed it increases the more i heal
FliPPeh: mastertheknife: Yep
FliPPeh: mastertheknife: You can right-click and make you and your patient invulnerable for a small time
FliPPeh: Or give them 100% crit, depending on what medigun you're bearing
mastertheknife: oh cool, thanks
mastertheknife: I play in all classes but so far found Spy most fun
FliPPeh: Spy hurts me too much
FliPPeh: They always find me
mastertheknife: I read some guides and now i can sneak inside army base without dying and even stay there for 5 minutes
skyhirider: ahh, is it me or 90% time i come here I hear something tf2 or steam ish
skyhirider: not complaining that its bad or anything :)
FliPPeh: skyhirider: aww, it's interesting!
FliPPeh: 261 hours played...
skyhirider: as a spy, best thing is you can disguise as a friendly class, so the enemy doesnt know youre a spy
FliPPeh: All in a few weeks.
skyhirider: 400 here mate
FliPPeh: I started playing it one day
mastertheknife: skyhirider: Yeah! but need to know which to
FliPPeh: And then I was hooked for months
skyhirider: too much but its my fave fps
FliPPeh: Then I suddenly stopped :)
mastertheknife: skyhirider: if you're staying inside army base, engineer wouldnt be a good idea
debris: skyhirider:what kind of converse are you looking for?
skyhirider: nah, pyro, heavy, sniper, engie all is good
mastertheknife: Another engineer sees you with your name, thats no good..
mastertheknife: Sniper actually works well
skyhirider: especially when you use the death ringer
mastertheknife: I dont have that yet, dont have cloak of dagger either
skyhirider: I meant youre Blu and disguise as a blu engie
FliPPeh: TF2 starting
FliPPeh: Let's see what happens now
skyhirider: the fake death with DR and make them think they killed the engie
skyhirider: what server mate?
mastertheknife: skyhirider: wow man thanks :)
skyhirider: man,we should really make a phoronix tf2 matchoff sometimes
FliPPeh: Linux only
FliPPeh: I see people crashing out secondly
skyhirider: dont think that a 32 man server would be enough thou :D
mastertheknife: skyhirider: I originally wanted to wait to buy TF2 when steam comes to linux but couldnt wait so i bought the orange box this week :)
FliPPeh: I'm still looking for some nice NATIVE games
skyhirider: cant run TF2 with Gnome shell running, takes too much of my gpu
FliPPeh: I'm currently addicted to vitetris
mastertheknife: So far i only play in one server.. it has the eygpt map
FliPPeh: TF2 crashed again
skyhirider: egypt is good
mastertheknife: skyhirider: Yeah its fun
skyhirider: heh, thats why i keep a w7 partition handy
FliPPeh: CAudioSourceMemWave (vo\heavy_domination17.wac): GetDataPointer() failed.
mastertheknife: skyhirider: I hate the pyros
FliPPeh: pyros are like cancer
mastertheknife: skyhirider: when they check for spies, they always find me
skyhirider: cmon, everyone hates em but a good pyro is fearsome indeed
skyhirider: you can stair stab them or head shot them
mastertheknife: but then ill be caught..
skyhirider: would be surprised how easy it is to take down a pyro
skyhirider: well, with the DR you can run away, i like to play the spy as a gun and run :D
mastertheknife: skyhirider: Is that a rare item? and can be it be crafted somehow?
skyhirider: but pyros are annoying when you play the sword and board demo, you cant even touch them with that bloody ariblast of theirs
skyhirider: what item? i
mastertheknife: death ring
skyhirider: Dead Ringer, gimme a sec to dig out a link
mastertheknife: oh cool thanks :)
skyhirider: btw, tf2 wiki is your friend :)
FliPPeh: It's a great wiki
mastertheknife: tf2wiki.net, this one ?
mastertheknife: wow its good.. :)
skyhirider: enjoy mate
skyhirider: lots of cool stuff there, including a few item recepies
mastertheknife: didnt know that wiki existed.. thanks :)
skyhirider: np :)
skyhirider: just get enough spy achievements and you should get it with the Milestone achievement
mastertheknife: oh cool.. thanks
mastertheknife: Milestone 3
skyhirider: yup, thats the one
skyhirider: all the classes have milestones except the engie that has no new items yet
skyhirider: btw, seen the meet the team videos?
mastertheknife: oh why is that?
FliPPeh: Still waiting for medic and pyro
mastertheknife: skyhirider: Just the spy one with the mom pictures, its hilarious
mastertheknife: skyhirider: this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnuYi-nzE90
skyhirider: official blog of tf2 from valve, can have a look there, cant wait till they release the vid editor
skyhirider: hope they release a new vid with the engie
FliPPeh: I actually copied the windows minesweeper and run it with mine
FliPPeh: It's just awesome!
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: how does TF2 run ?
FliPPeh: CAudioSourceMemWave (vo\heavy_domination17.wac): GetDataPointer() failed.
skyhirider: what a surprise
FliPPeh: for various files
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: are you using wine in XP mode ?
FliPPeh: Other source games run fine
mastertheknife: maybe the working directory isn't right
skyhirider: odd, i can launch tf2 fine
mastertheknife: yeah tf2 works nicely here
FliPPeh: launchig IS fine
FliPPeh: Trying to play isn't :)
mastertheknife: what wine version ?
skyhirider: hehe, havent gone so far, too few fps to play
mastertheknife: I use 1.2-rc1
skyhirider: oh, whens that from?
mastertheknife: I actually use a patch from dandel's on my wine
FliPPeh: Arch Linux :)
FliPPeh: Gaming repository
mastertheknife: it almost doubled my fps in L4D
mastertheknife: but he deleted it or is still working on it i think
mastertheknife: I didnt test tf2 without it
skyhirider: didnt know they released a new wine, dont update that much
mastertheknife: skyhirider: its the next version after 1.1.44
skyhirider: ah, that explains it
skyhirider: and it added tf2 crahes?
FliPPeh: 1.44 crashed, too
FliPPeh: Something's messed
skyhirider: odd, what gpu?
FliPPeh: But it had worked when I first tried it
FliPPeh: GeForce 9800 GTX+
mastertheknife: FliPPeh: have you tried "Verify game files"
mastertheknife: I think your files might be corrupt
FliPPeh: I'll try that
FliPPeh: Oh god
skyhirider: hmm, have a nvidia too and no problems whatsoever with wine older versions
FliPPeh: The day of defeat source intro is so awesome
mastertheknife: nvidia 8800GT here, never really had a problem with it
skyhirider: i had to verify my files on Ubuntu as verifying on Windows always caused a bsod
FliPPeh: Basically, the 9800 is just a relabeled 8800
FliPPeh: Like almost EVERY nvidia card is relabeled
FliPPeh: I hate them
skyhirider: good old nvidia marketing
mastertheknife: they're both g92 yeah
FliPPeh: My next one will be ATI
FliPPeh: They made some good cards in the last years
skyhirider: new graphics from nvidia shoudl be labeled grillforce
skyhirider: well, the fact that 8800 can run games high today is a sign it was good, but now nvidia is falling behind
skyhirider: man, you can cook eggs on it
skyhirider: hows your audio drive in wine set up?
mastertheknife: only use ALSA
skyhirider: hw acceleration and default sample rate?
skyhirider: and bits per sample?
mastertheknife: well i only have ALSA ticked and the normal stuff.. 44,100 Hz and 16bit i thin
mastertheknife: i think*
mastertheknife: I use pretty much everything default in wine, set to XP mode
skyhirider: odd, same here
skyhirider: you could try backing up tf2, deleting it all and redownloading if the problem persists
mastertheknife: So far 8 spy achievements, 9 more to go
RambJoe: was steam down earlier
mastertheknife: he can delete it entirely
mastertheknife: its saved on steam cloud
FliPPeh: I've got most of the achivements for all classes :)
mastertheknife: RambJoe: yes
mastertheknife: I want the dead ringer to try it out.. heh
skyhirider: true, but if something fails you will have a backupt
skyhirider: sorry, im just too paranoid concerning data :D
RambJoe: does hl2 have steam cloud yet
Ivanovic: RambJoe: since it has a mac binary which means it is ported to the latest engine:
Ivanovic: most likely yes
Ivanovic: as well as EP1 and EP2
skyhirider: yes, hl2 has cloud
skyhirider: added a crap load of bugs to the game thou
FliPPeh: Yay, vitetris
FliPPeh: oh hey
FliPPeh: They made blobby volley open source
FliPPeh: I remember playing that in school when I should have been working
FliPPeh: Great times.
mastertheknife: Identify theft achivement must be broken
mastertheknife: I cant get it
mastertheknife: Identity Theft
mastertheknife: Backstab the enemy that you're currently disguised as.
FliPPeh: I got it
mastertheknife: I just did it.. i backstabbed the engineer i was disguised to
mastertheknife: 2 times
FliPPeh: Maybe broken now
FliPPeh: But it defnitly worked for me :)
FliPPeh: sudo pacman -S pacman-arena
FliPPeh: This isn't my shell
mastertheknife: ok 3rd time it worked
skyhirider: meh, there are many broken achievements atm
skyhirider: thing there re problems with the kill be enviroment achievements, the direct hit suicide is still bugged from the soldier update and some achievements are so ridiculous that you cant get them in normal play
skyhirider: masterknife, what server you on?
FliPPeh: As a smart driver, I find this picture offending!
FliPPeh: ... who am I kidding. That car sucks.
GodofGrunts: Man with so many people in this IRC, you'd think it would be non stop discussion.
Azerthoth: easy fix, just utter some heresy
Azerthoth: like: steam on linux, vaporware CONFIRMED!!!11!
GodofGrunts: Oh look. It's you
GodofGrunts: Like a thousand people idling on this IRC and the steam hater is the only one here.
Azerthoth: GodofGrunts, just seen the steam crowd get the knickers in a twist a couple of times over the last few years
Azerthoth: the net result ... something comes along to spin them up again a few month later
GodofGrunts: The ride is most of the fun though :)
Azerthoth: I believe it when I see it, and from the number of times this has happened, I dont actually expect to ever see it
GodofGrunts: E3 is soon. :)
Azerthoth: be nice if it happened, but good christ the fanbois sure do forget the last time quick enough every time there is a glimmer of anything resembling hope
Varkk: got an email from a Redhat list today which indicated that Linux steam may be out at the end of Aug, but it is only speculation and I think it may be from the same source as the phoronix articles
GodofGrunts: Varkk: Oh? Care to post the email in a pastbin?
Azerthoth: see ... glimmer of hope ... logic fail
Azerthoth: wtf does redhat have to do with it?
llua: I NEEDZ MY STEAM
FliPPeh: DID SOMEONE SAY STEAM?
GodofGrunts: Azerthoth: See what you did
FliPPeh: shakes uncontrollably
Azerthoth: GodofGrunts, told you, just utter heresy and the conversation would start :)
Varkk: here is the link to the full article from the email https://inquiries.redhat.com/wt/lt.do?m2lc=418982438-108-1134169918&sc_cid=70160000000IfJcAAK
FliPPeh: Too busy playing nethack
RambJoe: we have no linux steam news to talk about :(
GodofGrunts: Azerthoth: Hey guys, how about the PTS-Gui and how it doesn't work?
Varkk: I was excited, then I checked the articles sources and it still points to the same articles phoronix cite, nothing to indicate where they got August from
RambJoe: well apparently the e3 surprise wont interest ps3 or 360 gamers
GodofGrunts: Hey guys, how about the PTS-Gui and how it doesn't work?
GodofGrunts: And how it's based oh php52 that no one uses?
GodofGrunts: *sigh* OMG STEAM ON LINUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
llua: hi again
RambJoe: there's a rumour that gabe isn't going to be at e3
RambJoe: and they're announcing a new source engine lol
GodofGrunts: New Source engine at e3?
GodofGrunts: Why bother? No on there will understand
RambJoe: well they think it will be with HL3
GodofGrunts: Gabe has already said it's not HL3
alexandernst: steam for linux!
alexandernst: gn *
RambJoe: has anyone emailed gabe to ask if they will announce steam for linux at e3
GodofGrunts: He won't respond
RambJoe: same =/
RambJoe: maybe becaues he can't say yes :D
GodofGrunts: No news is good news right?
RambJoe: like when they asked about ep3 he said no
RambJoe: yes, STEAM FOR LINUX CONFIRMED :D
RambJoe: i hope they announce a new HL or something as well
GodofGrunts: Poor Azerthoth, he's going to shoot himself before this is over.
RambJoe: surprised no one's asked if HL3 will be at e3
Azerthoth: another month or so and th furor dies down then 6 months later it starts up again for a month or two
RambJoe: or maybe they have but didn't post as no response
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: They have
Azerthoth: kind of like a neat pavlovian trick
Azerthoth: drool on command
RambJoe: i dont know why gabe is saying no to some stuff, kinda narrows down the surprise lol
GodofGrunts: I don't know why they just don't do it already. The massive amounts of jizz that would escape the pen0rs of linux users would be awesome.
RambJoe: ipad lol
GodofGrunts: Big iphone minus calling features
GodofGrunts: = innovation
RambJoe: htc desire is on there
RambJoe: lol whats so new about it
RambJoe: not like the first internet tablet
RambJoe: i have one that runs linux
RambJoe: why is old shit on the "of the year" awards like facebook etc
Varkk: because it is a massive circle-jerk among the players who are already established
RambJoe: hmm not sure who to go with for tech brand
RambJoe: google or htc
Azerthoth: GodofGrunts, just holler next time you want me to kick the hornets nest :)
GodofGrunts: Azerthoth: Alirgiht lol
RambJoe: i should get my htc end of next month :D
RambJoe: although 3 removed all the cheap plans becaues of low stock wtf
Sleepy_Coder: doesn't like how Steam gives out the LAN IP of servers you're playing on... on the LAN
Sleepy_Coder: Do not want
RambJoe: what the fuck
RambJoe: if you submit your votes
GodofGrunts: Sleepy_Coder: Why dose that matter?
RambJoe: you can win an ipad DO NOT WANT
Sleepy_Coder: GodofGrunts: Lets those in the outside world know which address space you're using before NAT.
Sleepy_Coder: would consider it a slight security risk
GodofGrunts: Sleepy_Coder: I've never noticed that...
Sleepy_Coder: hates getting the game info for players only to see a private address
Sleepy_Coder: one they're playing locally which is unfun for me, and 2 it's sort of bad that I can see that :S
cmdrk: playing against local players is kind of suck
Sleepy_Coder: I had forgotten what it's like not to lag...
Sleepy_Coder: how lovely
Sleepy_Coder: playing a local game of l4d2
djura-san: im off. have a nice chat and a nice day
Sleepy_Coder: he's a pleasant person ;333
GodofGrunts: yes he is
Sleepy_Coder: city 17 community map for l4d2 is win :D
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: Nice
RambJoe: um are valve gonna be at E3 with MS
RambJoe: that would be pretty ironic if they announced linux then lol
GodofGrunts: That would be awesome!
RambJoe: we should email gabe
RambJoe: and tell him irc.freenode.net #phoronix
thomashc: anyone agree with my solution? Please vote: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/2947/
Rednaxela: I've tried those two IDEs you suggest. I'd consider them alright for some languages but too subpar for some like Java.
Rednaxela: Besides, I think that the only times where a people deal with a project larger than what plain editors are best for, they probably already have a specific preferred IDE
thomashc: Rednaxela, It would, mainly be for attracting new developers
thomashc: And giving them a learning platform
thomashc: I didn;t suggest any IDES
thomashc: I didn't write that post
Rednaxela: Oh, I see
thomashc: but I responded with a solution
thomashc: Which is #2
Rednaxela: Ahh, I see what you're saying there
thomashc: I think it would be a great thing to have an SDK of sorts
Rednaxela: Eh, I just don't see what you suggest happening. It would tend to mean advocating a single language for one thing, and there will always be loud outcry no matter what you pick
thomashc: Rednaxela, Canonical has already shown acceptance of that
thomashc: With little things such as switching the window buttons around
GodofGrunts: There is already gedit, what more could you ask for?
thomashc: GodofGrunts, Eh tell that to Visual Studio fanboys
thomashc: hell most of the time I code in nano
GodofGrunts: I like to see colored syntax
thomashc: nano does that
Rednaxela: thomashc, Canonical is more interested in pushing a user experience than pushing a dev experience
GodofGrunts: I might try vim or emacs one day
GodofGrunts: nano doesn't do colored syntax
thomashc: Rednaxela, True, but it is time to focus on developers as well
Rednaxela: They're more hands-off about trying to suggest def setups
thomashc: But if developers could use ubuntu to make money
Rednaxela: I'd agree it might have benefits, but I don't think they are going to do it
thomashc: they would be very attracted to it
Rednaxela: I think the idea could work, but the politics just are there
thomashc: it's worth voting on and speaking about I think
thomashc: who knows
thomashc: is getting tired of VS fanboys
GodofGrunts: VS is CRAP
thomashc: it used to be
thomashc: but I actually tried it
thomashc: and it's nice
thomashc: I can see why people like it at least
GodofGrunts: Is there a new one? Because VS 2008 was god awful
thomashc: there is 2010
thomashc: I'm using VS Express 2010
thomashc: just playing around in it
thomashc: it's cool
GodofGrunts: Haven't used '10
thomashc: It works at least, and very nicely
Rednaxela: thomashc: IMO something that would be more important if they wanted to encourage app development with some kind of uniformity, would be designing a VERY easy to use UI API, which gives more pressure to follow certain UI design decisions that are sane/smart, and also makes it easier to do so. Perhaps with some templates of UI patterns.
thomashc: Rednaxela, EXACTLY part of my point :P
thomashc: GUIs are incredibly easy on windows
thomashc: you can make apps with NO coding experience, and not total crap apps too, and you learn as you go
Rednaxela: I have to say this: Java is an incredible annoying language and slow one to work with in some cases, HOWEVER, even Swing makes GTK and QT look bad, from an API perspective
thomashc: yeah it does
thomashc: GTK/QT are both great but the APIs/bindings suck
thomashc: well, PyGTK is nice
thomashc: and PyQT is....obfuscated?
Rednaxela: PyGTK is alright, but it doesn't do anything to encourage good UI design over bad UI design
Rednaxela: Something that encourages "tried & true" UI patterns would be nice
GodofGrunts: can we just all move to python?
thomashc: Python is great but slow for heavy apps
thomashc: and don't get me wrong
thomashc: I LOVE python
thomashc: but there are still people with 256 MB RAM and Pentium 3s
GodofGrunts: Screw it
GodofGrunts: We're all going back to asymbly
thomashc: Assembly would be hell to write anything big in
GodofGrunts: Obviously you're not a good coder. :P
thomashc: GodofGrunts, Go write KDE in Assembly
GodofGrunts: okay brb
thomashc: and you will officially be a good coder then
Rednaxela: My view is kind of like the following: People talk about the symantic web.... and how you should make clean HTML and use css to theme. Well, if you ever try to design a GTK UI with Glade, in order to make a nice usable UI you usually need to TOTALLY bastardize the UI layout components like people used to bastardize tables in HTML
thomashc: Rednaxela, yeah, that's true
Rednaxela: What's needed is a UI API that allows it to be designed on a logical level rather than a visual level
thomashc: and more importantly, one that integrates with QT AND GTK
GodofGrunts: ncurses for life?
kurros: Rednaxela, sounds like wxWidgets...
kurros: though i dont think there is a maintained Qt version anymore actually
Azerthoth: yeah that would be qt4
Rednaxela: kurros: wxWidgets still is more designing the UI on the visual level really, not the logical level...
kurros: FWIW i think MonoDevelop is the best IDE ;) at least for C/C#/Vala/Python projects
Rednaxela: wxWidgets provides some abstraction over other UI toolkits, but it takes the approach of doing the same thing in each, pandering to the lowest common denominator in some aspects while emulating fancier things in others... and all around is just still about designing it at the visual level
thomashc: kurros, Maybe, but it needs support for C++
thomashc: or does it have that?
thomashc: doesnt remember
kurros: yes. i clumped it with C
RambJoe: lol wut ps3 exclusive
RambJoe: they be trolling
Rednaxela: Rather than something of the wxWindows direction... actual high level useful UI patterns need to be the abstractions, rather than focusing on the widgets
GodofGrunts: casio FX series
kurros: steam juice lol
DonScott: wants steam on linux......
Rednaxela: I want a pony too DonScott
DonScott: might have to come to the realization that he should have 2 computers instead of one.
bkero: gets by with only 4 computers.
bkero: Desktop, laptop, server, router. Laptop server and router are < 25W. Desktop is around 750W.
bkero: Shameful intel.