Phoronix IRC Log: 2010-06-04
SageX: os[sage@sage-desktop, Linux 2.6.32-22-generic x86_64]
Rednaxela: wait, mod closed the thread, lame
DonScott: yeah, that probably why no ones pointed it out to him.
Rednaxela: I wonder what kind of instructions the volunteer mods get
Azerthoth: hang out in #sabayon ... see what they do to annoying idiots, and dont do that
Rednaxela: I bet there's a "try to be helpful and direct people to publicly available information" in the instructions given to them
Rednaxela: However to make claims about Valve's plans? Unless he heard recently from up high... shouldn't do that
Azerthoth: always people trying to make themselves more than they are, wish there were more that lurked and downplayed what they knew
DonScott: yeah they more i look at his title....the more I think he's just a weeny.
Rednaxela: The avatar really doesn't help him in that way
mikeplus64: Each passing day that Valve says nothing about Steam on Linux for me Phoronix's credibility keeps going downhill. :\
Azerthoth: phoronix no, there are just a lot of reactionary fanboi's that have rallied here
DonScott: will always be a Valve fanboi..... that is unless they somehow start sucking really bad in the game dept.
DonScott: at E3 is most likely the surprise
DonScott: although it they mention linux.....it will be a bonus to the surprise.
Rednaxela: I'd be *very* surprised if they would
Rednaxela: if they're going to announce steam for linux, that won't be the place
DonScott: not probable.....but still possible.
mikeplus64: I doubt that many Linux people go to E3 mainly because there wouldn't be much reason for them.
Azerthoth: hmm what do I look forward to from E3? more morgan webb and olivia munn
Rednaxela: Yeah, also I doubt Steam would announce it at a Linux conference even more, since simply attending would give away more than they'd want to, plus such things tend to not have anything pertaining to games ever
Galaxy|: wewt over 20,000PMKs out of my i7-920 and my Radeon HD 4850
Rednaxela: Thus, they'll probably quietly announce it inbetween bigger news, perhaps in 18 months or so if I had to guess
Galaxy|: pyrit ftw :D
DonScott: what's a pmk ?
ryan22: hopefully that will get some devs attention
ryan22: the audio situation really needs to fixed on linux
ryan22: im scared that valve might give up on steam if its released due to development difficulties
ryan22: eh someone needs to say something
DonScott: yeah....sadly....thats the one thing I think hang up a lot of people.
Rednaxela: Eh, I think what needs to be done as far as audio on linux is mostly the following two things: 1) Ubuntu drop PulseAudio, and 2) Push something like OpenAL to be more widely used
Rednaxela: Those two steps would solve 90% of the issue
Rednaxela: (Of course, being the cynic I am, I strongly doubt Ubuntu will drop PA any time in the next 5 years)
DonScott: they don't even have to drop it....just make it a choice on the installer.
Rednaxela: Most people don't care about such choices
Sleepy_Coder: OpenAL + ALSA or OSS4, only two needed :p
Rednaxela: Random poll: $86.36 with a $30.00 mail in rebate, or $80.73. Which is preferable?
DonScott: mail in rebate as long as you remember to mail it in
Sleepy_Coder: I mean, it's not really a fair argument, but I want to be introduced to people who set volumes on a per-application basis. I don't find myself listening to a YouTube video at once volume and listening to a song in ncmpcp at another, it's retarded to think you must finely grain volume on a per-application basis. (imho)
Rednaxela: Second random poll: Now if this is a 1TB HDD, and the rebate offer will be around for another couple weeks, wait for a better sale to maybe show up? Hah
Rednaxela: (prices with shipping included)
bluekoala: ryan22: I think they should do it anyway; these "bugs" will be fixed a lots faster
Rednaxela: Sleepy_Coder: Heh, well, most applications where people *might* care about that already have builtin volume control (i.e. youtube, media players, many games)
Sleepy_Coder: Well yes yes
Sleepy_Coder: I just always found it a stupid argument for wanting pulseaudio
ryan22: Linux needs a stupid simple underlying audio API and PulseAudio/ALSA is not it. OSSv4 would be a much better alternative, though it's mixer GUI needs some work and some drivers need to be ported over to it. OSSv4 is also used by the other Unixes, such as the BSDs. ALSA is only used by Linux.
Sleepy_Coder: LOL PER-APPLICATION VOLUME SETTING SOUND SERVER
ryan22: OSSv4 also as per-app volume controls
Sleepy_Coder: I'm all for supporting it, but I doubt it's useful.
ryan22: it works with every program
Sleepy_Coder: I just don't like the layering of pulseaudio on top of ALSA, etc
tkmorris: OSS was proprietary when ALSA was needed
bluekoala: Rednaxela: 80.73, less effort, I hate snail mail
Sleepy_Coder: It's a mess because distributors make it a mess
Rednaxela: OSS4 is too low level IMO, better to standardize on on an API that can handle all backends
ryan22: as every program still supports oss
DonScott: we need one audio driver that works 99% of the time.
ryan22: and just write a high level wrapper around it to make it easy on devs
Sleepy_Coder: I would love to see OSSv4 gain some ground. A friend who does a lot of audio dev says it's the best thing ever, he just hasn't enumerated why... >.>
ryan22: alsa is too complicated for a full wrapper
Sleepy_Coder: He did say it's missing as many of the drivers available for ALSA though :(
ryan22: ya it does need some work
Rednaxela: " as every program still supports oss" <- Not so. I know a number that are pure ALSA ;)
ryan22: skype is one
ryan22: but OSSv4 has a alsa compat layer
mikeplus64: Regarding audio: most problems now seem to be because of PulseAudio for people who use Fedora or Ubuntu - at least, it was the case when I used Fedora that I had to remove PA because it would cause audio randomly going and lots of crackling.
mikeplus64: Not that there aren't other problems now.
ryan22: ALSA/OSSv4 could be an install time option
Rednaxela: My only objection to standardizing on OSSv4, is that it's still coupling the backend implementation to a custom API
ryan22: eh there will never be perfection
ryan22: but ossv4 would be damn closer
Rednaxela: There needs to be a common API decoupled (including politically decoupled), from backends
DonScott: i had to remove pulse audio due to it's very high latency in games...
Sleepy_Coder: OSSv4 has an ALSA compatibility layer? :o
Rednaxela: Note, politically decoupled as very important...
Sleepy_Coder: Well now I have to try this :o
bluekoala: DonScott: Isn't the a buffer you can configure with pulseaudio?
Rednaxela: very very important
DonScott: I'd shoot my gun.....maybe 30-60 seonds later Id hear it
ryan22: Sleepy_Coder: yep it does :P
mikeplus64: I haven't tried out OSS but maybe I should sometime, what advantages does it have in #phoronix's opinion?
Sleepy_Coder: ryan22: I had been using ALSA because it had an OSS compatibility layer XD
Sleepy_Coder: THEY SUPPORT EACH OTHER
ryan22: mikeplus64: per-app volume controls, better sound quality ive read, though that may be subjective
ryan22: the mixer needs work though
Rednaxela: Except ALSA's OSS compatibility layer is old as I remember, lol
DonScott: dude......people aren't going to configure stuff...they're going to go to forums of the game and bitch.
bluekoala: Hmmm true
ryan22: basically my arguement ;)
ryan22: and then the devs will abandon linux cuz its "unprofitable" to support
bluekoala: A sticky can be created
Rednaxela: For games, I think SDL sound oropenAL is a good option from a dev position.... since distros should tend to have that set up to JUST DARN WORK always
bluekoala: And lots of people given timeouts
bluekoala: Mods are cheap
ryan22: sdl still has issues with pulse though
ryan22: at it did in karmic
ryan22: especially allegro games
Rednaxela: I heard SDL has a working pulse backend. Any distro using pulse should use that...
mikeplus64: Maybe the game could detect if PA is running then kill it before the game starts ( with the user's consent, that is ).
ryan22: which are like all the indie games
Rednaxela: (not that any should use pulse...)
Sleepy_Coder: (07:51:47) < Rednaxela> Except ALSA's OSS compatibility layer is old as I remember, lol <-- Yes of course :)
Sleepy_Coder: Sfaik, OSS is still listed as old tech in the kernel config because of OSSv4's slow adoption and politics :(
ryan22: its sad cuz ossv4 is gpl
Sleepy_Coder: I wonder what ALSA is.. :o
ryan22: and the dev was searching for ppl to hire him
DonScott: Alsa works....
Rednaxela: My dream scenario: Merger of OSS4 and ALSA projects, PA dies, people standardize on some higher level layer like openAL
ryan22: alsa is dead end, mostly cuz all the dev of alsa have decided to only add new features to pulse
DonScott: I didn't have to configure it to hear my gun fire the same time I clicked mouse 1 in ET:QW
ryan22: which was why i looked at ossv4
mikeplus64: ryan22: Really?! Say it ain't so, man! D:
ryan22: yep alsa is mostly driver only now
mikeplus64: I'm being cool by appending 'man', bro, dude, man.
ryan22: all the alsa devs are the pulse devs
ryan22: for what i can tell
ryan22: so alsa wnt get per-app volume which is a nice feature
mikeplus64: I used JACK and ALSA for a while but I could never get ETQW to work with JACK properly, other than that everything worked great.
ryan22: i like the idea of pulse, just the implementation sucks
ryan22: and i think thats mostly cuz alsa is so complicated
ryan22: jack is nice, but its a bit overkill
ryan22: while aside for stuff like audio work
mikeplus64: It can be ran with heaps of Linux sound servers.
mikeplus64: Which is always nice.
Azerthoth: something to take your mind off of steam ...
DonScott: I miss tech tv....
DonScott: although.....Olivia in the chair with candy poured on her was pretty hawt.
Azerthoth: I want to be a pickle jar
DonScott: night peeps
Galaxy|: anyone have any ideas how i can dump a vbios in lucid
Galaxy|: I've used atiflash but can't find a linux version
ryan22: whoops lol
Azalyn: about the audio convo earlier...
Azalyn: i personally think we should go back to OSS. :|
Azalyn: OSSv4 is very good..
Azalyn: and has been used in professional audio for years.
Azalyn: it's really messed up that alsa has been around for so long, and yet, in all that time, they were not able to surpass oss.
ryan22: its all politics and no merit...
Azalyn: yeah i know
r4: we must unite!
Azalyn: just because oss 'used' to be proprietary.
Azalyn: netscape used to be proprietary... that doesn't stop people from using firefox.
ryan22: and now the pulseaudio/alsa devs don't wanna give up their pet project
Azalyn: same with openoffice.
Azalyn: and all the other shit out there that "used" to be proprietary.
ryan22: they really like to stream audio to the kitchen...
ryan22: and seriosuly think that thats a general use scenario :P
Azalyn: someone should design a new sound stack, from kernel to userland, (base it on current code of course, no need to reinvent the wheel), and *not* create a stable release until it's ideal.
Azalyn: because if they create a release and mark it 'stable' or whatever.. distros like ubuntu will just jump on it right away
ryan22: should just use ossv4
Azalyn: so it should just be in git or something, and not even use snapshots.
ryan22: it has all the base apis so it'll be easily abstracted
Azalyn: ryan22: yeah, idealy, but because of the 'politics', they will not want to use it.. so some kind of replacement would need to be made to ease over those politics.
Azalyn: maybe we should just rename it...
ryan22: i think really all that will be needed is for one distro to take lead
ryan22: and get debian on board
ryan22: cuz if debian adopts, ubuntu will kinda be forced too ;)
Azalyn: ssttioss. "Sount System That Totally Isn't OSS"
ryan22: it shouldnt be too hard to get arch and gentoo on board either
ryan22: fedora and suse will be the holdouts though
Azalyn: or maybe add an 'h' at the end. "Sound System That Totally Isn't OSS, Honest!"
ryan22: ppl just need to start botching to the people who will listen to them ;)
Azalyn: i was embarrassed at my "sount" typo above, but now that you said "botching", i'm ok.
ryan22: i fail at keyboard
Azalyn: maybe we should switch to colemak.
ryan22: but ya get debian, arch and gentoo to switch
ryan22: to ossv4
r4: well i dont think arch or gentoo claim to really use one over the other
Azalyn: those guys are just as stubborn as the bigger distros though..
Azalyn: especially debian
r4: iirc thats kinda the point of using either distro (you get to choose)
Azalyn: yeah, that too.
ryan22: ossv4 isnt in the gentoo or arch repos atm
ryan22: at least i believe
ryan22: and remember debian ditched glibc for eglibc
r4: looks like its v4 to me
ryan22: hmm maybe its just gentoo
ryan22: yep it isn't in gentoo: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/OSS4
Azalyn: hm, eglibc eh? heh
ryan22: ya they switched cuz they got tried of drepper
ryan22: though they didnt explictly say it ;)
ryan22: "More friendly upstream (especially with regard to embedded architectures): “Encourage cooperation, communication, civility, and respect among developers”"
ryan22: gotta love politics
Azalyn: would be nice if they added strlcat() and strlcpy()
ryan22: i wonder if they did. that was a year ago
ragix: you guys see this?
r4: hehe i love that :P
Azalyn: ragix: heh, i've thought of that sort of thing before.
Azalyn: being able to use host mode and then a phone could be like a portable desktop. you could 'dock' it or something in some kind of port replicator, and then you'd have yourself a desktop.
ragix: pico projector
Azalyn: well.. that's *one* idea...
Azalyn: but honestly i think i'd prefer an actual monitor.
ragix: cant fit a monitor in my bag :S
Azalyn: yeah, my idea is that you'd have a standardized docking station.
ragix: but then again, that is what a netbook is for :P
Azalyn: and anyone could use it.
riisen: GaH im going crazy ... i want valve to say something awsome o.O
mastertheknife: me too
mastertheknife: by the time valve will announce something ill forget about it entirely
mikeplus64: Sorry, what was it that we're hoping Valve would say?
mastertheknife: Argh, /home is becoming full and no idea what to delete
mastertheknife: know when that happens.. lol
MPX: Hello RambJoe
RambJoe: is steams site messed up for anyone else
mastertheknife: not here
RambJoe: it was for like 1 minute
RambJoe: how hard is it to set up arch linux mouse and keyboard on a normal computer, not vm?
SageX: some nvidia graphics card driver was recalled
Alam_Squeeze: proof? URL?
Ivanovic: March 06, 2010
Ivanovic: that is *ages* ago...
SageX: for some reason
SageX: steam said that my drivers have changed
SageX: just cause I changed OS's for a old game
SageX: in wine
mastertheknife: any tf2 players here?
r4: i play tf2!
mastertheknife: r4: i just bought it today
mastertheknife: r4: so far seems bit difficult because there isnt a ingame tutorial or any guides
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: don't buy non native games ;-)
mastertheknife: I mean.. i cant find any information about those weapon levels
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: if the game will come to linux someday thats a different story :P
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: don't touch it until that time :P
r4: mastertheknife: i just started playing online
r4: i didnt bother reading
r4: mastertheknife: if you want it to run well....read the winehq page on tf2
mastertheknife: oh i did
mastertheknife: it runs great here
r4: good :)
mastertheknife: with -dxlevel 81
r4: mine runs just a notch below in comparison to on winxp
mastertheknife: what video card?
r4: nvidia gts 8800
mastertheknife: 8800gt here
mastertheknife: well it runs nicely at 1680x1050, i just dont know where to get the cool items
r4: are you playing single playero r something?
mastertheknife: there is no single player i thought
r4: i didnt think so either
r4: i get about 50-60fps in a large battle
r4: other than that
mastertheknife: the game looks very confusing and the hud is very big
mastertheknife: tf classic was easier, but looks crap compared to tf2 :P
r4: yeah with default settings
r4: mine looks like shit and has a small hud
r4: mastertheknife: http://www.m0re.nocrits.com/index.php?site=files&cat=1
r4: oh no!
mastertheknife: damn X lol
mastertheknife: for some reason tf2 sometimes hangs here
mastertheknife: and i have to kill it
mastertheknife: but then i dont see my desktop, just a black screen
mastertheknife: forcing me to kill X too
mastertheknife: argh... wine
r4: it took me a lot of tweaking to get it run without crashing ever
mastertheknife: what have you changed?
mastertheknife: Guess for now ill stick to windowed mode
Gear0: It's odd, but for me TF2 in wine seems to work far worse than other source engine games
Gear0: still playable though
mastertheknife: Gear0: use -dxlevel 81
mastertheknife: I use these startup options, it gives me windowed 1440x900 because my resolution is 1680x1050
mastertheknife: -dxlevel 81 -noforcemspd -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel -windowed -width 1440 -height 900
Gear0: mostly graphics though, like CSS looks exactly the same as it does on windows, lower fps though, but you can't tell them apart. But TF2, even with max graphics, just looks different.
mastertheknife: those noforce are mouse tweaks i use to disable some mouse acceleration and speed stuff
Gear0: I could give that a try, I think I have mouse acceleration off already though
mastertheknife: In X do you have it off?
mastertheknife: type "xset m 0 0", that will turn X mouse acceleration off
mastertheknife: but that wont survive a restart of X
Gear0: well I did it through Ubuntu mouse options
Gear0: but I'll use those startup options anyway just in case, I'm sure it can't hurt
skyhirider: If you could choose between SquirellMail, RoundCube or AtMail, what would you go for?
ryan22: i would choose zimbra
ryan22: its the best exchange replacement
ryan22: but if you want simpilcity, squirrelmail looks nice
ryan22: zimbra is a full groupware setup, with calendars, events and contacts
skyhirider: now thats an answer, a fourth option that wasn't there! :) will have a look at it
skyhirider: how does the open source version fare with large inboxes?
RambJoe: how do you resize partitons again
viridari: RambJoe: gparted
RambJoe: im in terminal
viridari: RambJoe: you're not using lvm?
RambJoe: ok i'll try it
viridari: try what?
viridari: if your partition is not already in lvm, there is a command line interface like gparted. It's "parted".
MPX: You arch guys oughta know this
MPX: I already got a Display open
MPX: how do I open up a display and run a program on it from the terminal
MPX: (another display that is
RambJoe: ok thanks
GNU\colossus: MPX: DISPLAY="" yourcommand
MPX: my displayidentifier...hmm
MPX: How do I figure that one out?
GNU\colossus: it's probably :0
GNU\colossus: pgrep -lf X
GNU\colossus: should help you find out
MPX: Yes it is :0
MPX: so opening up another one would be 1?
GNU\colossus: ah I msiread your initial question
GNU\colossus: I thought you'd be trying to start an X client from some TTY, and would like to have it rendered onto an existing display
MPX: I want to run dosemu purely on a session, if you know what I mean
GNU\colossus: you'll have to start another X server instance to have another display
MPX: how do I do this?
GNU\colossus: X :1
GNU\colossus: for instance
GNU\colossus: (modulo other options to make your build of X work)
MPX: That crashed X on display 0
MPX: actually, froze it
MPX: Perhaps I closed it wrong
RambJoe: on gparted i cant resize
RambJoe: and they have a padlock next to them
MPX: boot from livecd
MPX: partition needs to be unmounted
RambJoe: could i do that in virtualbox
RambJoe: by making them use the same vritual hdds?
MPX: I really doubt that
RambJoe: oh :(
MPX: If anything, that would make your system unstable
RambJoe: my arch install i'm trying to change the drives off is in virtualbox though
RambJoe: i might just delte the /home partition and make it on the same partiton as /
RambJoe: fuckk now i have to directory although /home/joe still exists
RambJoe: sorted :)
RambJoe: had to chown
RambJoe: anyone know what firefox uses
RambJoe: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/arm_five_others_combine_forces_drive_linux_forward :P
RambJoe: lol tahts a smartQ 7 at the bottom i have one
skyhirider: seems that it uses gtk according to the system requirements
Sleepy_Coder: Yes, it uses GTK.
RambJoe: ok thanks :)
RambJoe: just looks ugly in openbox lol
Daekdroom: So, has that mplayer-mt PPA already been set up? xD
ryan22: Daekdroom: im looking into
ryan22: ive been a busy guy
ryan22: itll be up by the beginning of july
Daekdroom: No worry.
Daekdroom: I'll just take any chance I have to go bleeding edge using any PPAs I can find..
ryan22: i have a tutorial on how to build it
ryan22: Daekdroom: http://www.linuxtech.net/tips+tricks/How_To_Build_Uotis_git_MPlayer_Branch.html
Kano: ryan22: ubuntu/debian?
Kano: use my script, thats more easy
ryan22: hmm cool
Daekdroom: Oh. A Script! :D
ryan22: well ive talked to uoti
Kano: sudo sh mplayer-git-mt-snapshot.txt
ryan22: i asked him to add webm and va-api support to his branch
RambJoe: http://i.imgur.com/zhrZK.png :)
ryan22: but kano if you can make a script that has that would be prefect
Kano: i have got a vaapi + pure svn version too
ryan22: svn is crap ;)
Kano: the diff between git mt and svn is minimal
Kano: vaapi is usally a bit older
ryan22: thats cuz you added al the needed patches in the scripts
Daekdroom: It has a lot of dependencies o.o
ryan22: git is twice as fast for me, even without the multithreading
Kano: ryan22: with benchmark option?
ryan22: the vdpau support is MUCH better in the git branch
Kano: can you verify this
Kano: i could not...
ryan22: i didn't do a proper bench
ryan22: but i clocked it with the commandline and htop
ryan22: btw ignoe the i/o stuff in that thread, it was cuz i had bad ram ;)
Kano: you dont need htop for that
Kano: mplayer has direct cpu usage
ryan22: ya i like the pretty colours
Kano: cant you use vdpau
ryan22: i did
ryan22: thats actually what i tested with
Daekdroom: Is a 1080p MPEG-4 video the same thing as a 1080p H.264 for benchmarking purposes?
Kano: for vdpau you only need svn
Kano: mpeg4 avc or not
ryan22: yes but the svn vdpau is twice as slow as the git vdpau
ryan22: seriously i benched it to be twice as fast
ryan22: on an atom/ion
Kano: i dont have got this
ryan22: your extra hardware might not show the diff as much
ryan22: Daekdroom: ya i meant h.264 when i dais mpeg4
ryan22: i did my tests on an atom/ion
Kano: are you sure you use vc override
Kano: you dont need vc override for the vaapi branch
ryan22: "The 1080p 13GB still skipped frames with the MPlayer git build, even with 2 threads enabled. Like with the rvm build, it would suddenly spike to 100% periodically, even when staying stable at 14% CPU. It would also go out of sync by about "0.200 ct" in the command-line during those spikes."
Kano: but there you can use -va vaapi -vo vaapi or -va vdpau -vo vdpau
ryan22: The MPlayer git build certianly ran better though. It used about half as much CPU as the rvm build in every test case. Even when it spiked, it only went out of sync by half as much.
Kano: ryan22: using correctly vdpau thats more or less impossible
ryan22: this is what i used
Kano: you must have done something wrong
Kano: using a correct svn build
ryan22: and that was with direct mplayer
ryan22: and a svn build
Kano: or something packaged by ubuntu
ryan22: i didnt use the ubuntu builds
Kano: thats crap by definiteion
ryan22: i tried yours but it didnt build on ubuntu
Kano: because no cpu optimization used
ryan22: i used the rvm svn build
Kano: my scripts build
ryan22: ya yours didnt build
Daekdroom: We'll see on that once the script is done grabbing the sources :P
Kano: then it was an error in the mplayer code, report to #mplayer at this day
ryan22: i think it was a dependency issue
ryan22: it was a bit ago and busy day
djura-san: hello to all :)
Kano: ryan22: then your sources.list had no deb-src entries
ryan22: yes it did
ryan22: im pretty sure i have that enabled by default in infinityos
Kano: infinity crap ah ;)
Kano: kanotix is the way to go
ryan22: the tutorial i linked earlier didnt work either
Kano: pure ck/bfs speed
ryan22: its cuz of the nvidia-185-vdpau package
ryan22: i have a updated library on infinityos
Kano: ryan22: 256.29
ryan22: so i had to like find out the build deps manually cuz "apt-get build-dep mplayer" didnt work
Daekdroom: then it's not the script o.o
ryan22: cuz it instisted on install nvidia-185-vdpau
ryan22: i think your script, kano had a similar issue
Kano: ryan22: it was tested with karmic, now only lucid, sid + kanotix (lenny)
Kano: when the problem is in a ppa its not my problem
ryan22: yes but "apt-get build-dep mplayer" doesnt work on karmic cuz i had libvdpau installed
ryan22: libvdpau is much newer
Kano: infinityos is a wannabe distro for lamers
ryan22: lol you're just jealous
Kano: i dont need ppa
ryan22: its why kanotix is so out of date ;)
Daekdroom: Good lord.
ryan22: ppas help me infinityos up to date
Kano: ryan22: no i have pidgin 2.7.1, latest skype all in my repo
ryan22: so do i
Kano: ooo 3.2.1 in additional repo on my server too
Daekdroom: uses Lucid Lynx + lots of PPAs
ryan22: but it takes me only an hour a week to maintain and keep the packages update to date
Kano: scripts for mplayer,vlc (incl. ffmpeg),xbmc (3 variants)
ryan22: why write scripts when launchpad does it for you ;)
ryan22: man that remind mes, i need to push oo.org 2.3 to my stable ppa eventually
Kano: thats just not the case, i can add extra patches like for better divx support very easy
Kano: like used in vlc/mplayer-vaapi script
ryan22: i can setup a ppa to automatically build mplayer each day
ryan22: and add patches if needed
ryan22: oh wells
ryan22: your distro is good though
ryan22: i tried it
Kano: but you need to compile mplayer without cpu optimization
ryan22: not a big fan of kde3, i like xfce better
Kano: when you package it
ryan22: i want to keep my build as close to
ryan22: upstream as possible
ryan22: im debated whether i should use kovensky or uoti's git branch though
ryan22: ill just probably set up ppa's for both
Kano: --enable-runtime-cpudetection thats what you need
Kano: thats always a bit slower than without
ryan22: eh the git build worked fine
ryan22: plus the svn build is having all sorts of politcal issues right now
ryan22: i hate politics
ryan22: it makes bad code
RambJoe: how old is the 2.6.32-22 kernel
RambJoe: update manager is trying to isntall that now lol
ryan22: thats the ubuntu kernel
ryan22: i think
Daekdroom: It's the lastest ubuntu lucid kernel
RambJoe: whats the command to check again
RambJoe: check my kernel
Daekdroom: uname -r
Daekdroom: I think
ryan22: yep thats it
ryan22: Kano: what do you think of OSSv4
Kano: currently everything is written for alsa
ryan22: ossv4 has per app-controls
ryan22: alsa is practically dead aside from drivers
ryan22: the devs are now only adding features to pulseaudio
Daekdroom: which somehow is doomed to be replaced by something
ryan22: which is honestly why i looked at ossv4 in the first place. pulseaudio isnt going anywhere near my distro
Daekdroom: Oh. Kano's script compiled
ryan22: ya it porably would on lucid
ryan22: i think it was the updated libvdpau library causing a dependency conflict that screwed it up in my case
ryan22: lucid has the new library but default, so it wouldnt try to fetch the old one during a build-dep
Kame: Hmm, I need your guys' opinion on Arch. One word descriptions: go!
Daekdroom: unknown (by me)
ryan22: better than gentoo
ryan22: its the way to go if you want a source based distro
thomashc1: Kame: Fast, customizable.
thomashc1: ryan22: erm
thomashc1: Arch isn't soruce based
s_20: the real question is, does it have ricer flags?
thomashc1: Arch is a binary distribution
ryan22: its focus id providing both binary and source
Daekdroom: Which video output should I use for MPlayer
Daekdroom: xv, x11, gl, gl2?
thomashc1: ryan22: not really
ryan22: what card?
ryan22: radeon or fglrx?
thomashc1: it's a binary distribution, all though you can add the Arch Linux *User* Repository to get *community* software. it builds that from source
ryan22: ya xv
thomashc1: well, makes a packages out of the soruce
ryan22: which means you end up using the source for most of your userland packages
thomashc1: No not really
thomashc1: On my arch systems I usualyl only used AUR for one package or so
ryan22: yes but you use each distro for a day max
thomashc1: Not really
thomashc1: I used arch for a long time
thomashc1: Just been experimenting lately
Kame: Mostly I'm looking for a fairly easy to use rolling release
ryan22: arch is probably your best bet
thomashc1: Kame: it's easy to use - but maybe not so easy to set up
ryan22: sidux might be good too
thomashc1: Debian Testing would do good
thomashc1: it's rolling release, more stable than sid/sidux, and easy
ryan22: i would go with sidux if you want debian. testing breaks all the time due to deps
ryan22: most of the time theres little diff btw testing and unstable anyways
ryan22: except for kernel stuff
thomashc1: not always
thomashc1: Testing/Stable Hybrids are common too
ryan22: "There are no absolutes in life, only approximations."
Kano: ryan22: as soon as debian is frozen, sid will be boring too
ryan22: well my distro seems to be going closer and closer to debian anyways
ryan22: the ubuntu universe packages are horrible
ryan22: and im not waiting till maverick to get xfce 4.6.2
Kame: Hmm, any rolling distros that use openbox?
thomashc1: Kame: Crunchbang could be rolling release now, it's based on Deb Testing
thomashc1: the alpha
Kame: I didn't hear about that
thomashc1: also, LFS IRC is HORRIBLE
Kame: Looks like crunchbang is currently based on debian squeeze
Kame: Does that make it rolling?
ryan22: you could try infinityos
Kame: Ah, nevermind I see, I should be able to change the repo to testing
ryan22: its semi-rolling ;)
thomashc: Kame: same thing lol
thomashc: ryan22: Infinity OS could be labeled poser CentOS
thomashc: jk :P
Kame: Downloading Crunchbang now :D I used it before back when it was ubuntu based and quite liked it
ryan22: about the apple html5 showcase:
ryan22: Apple failed to block Epiphany. Chrome works perfectly using the default Epiphany userscript. Firefox fails.
ryan22: Why is Apple blocking other web browsers?
Daekdroom: So they can sell false info to noobs.
Daekdroom: "Look, our browser runs HTML5! Others don't!"
ryan22: man i just flamed for like 15 min by mac fanboys
Aondo: about what? :D
ryan22: Ya they were telling me Apple just blocked the other browers cuz of apple didn't want to test it in other web browsers
ryan22: and i was then "then it should be bloody called "Safari Showcase" then"
Daekdroom: Then why not tell other browsers' users that it cannot run without Safari?
Daekdroom: (Because of the page, not because of HTML5)
ryan22: goddamn mac fanboys
ryan22: i say this using linux on a macbook ;)
Daekdroom: Goddamn fanboys of anything!
ryan22: i hate fanboys
ryan22: fanboys make bad code
Daekdroom: Fanboys make bad arguements.
ryan22: = fanboy argument
Daekdroom: I must say that it is not.
Daekdroom: Because I find it valid to care about eye candy.
Daekdroom: I'd be a functional fanboy if I said otherwise :P
Daekdroom: Saying that something is shiny = cool, saying that everybody should love shiny = bad.
ryan22: shiny is nice. but you need the meat behind it
k4ever: hi all
k4ever: wondering if anyone knew when the open source ati driver for linux will finally allow users to play the latest games with wine (like C&C Red Alert 3)
Kame: Whatever installer crunchbang uses doesn't detect my hard drive. Brilliant.
Nevtus: Kame: why don't you just go with arch?
Kame: Because I like Crunchbang?
k4ever: ..can't use the official driver from ATI because I have a legacy card
Nevtus: I thought you wanted a rolling distro?
Kame: It is rolling
Kame: More or less
Nevtus: is uses sid right?
Nevtus: k4ever: there are ati users here but I'm not one of them
Nevtus: I'm sure if you stick around someone might be able to help you
k4ever: hope so. i have an old laptop with a legacy ati card. with each new addition of ubuntu, support for legacy cards gets worse and worse.
k4ever: ...when it comes to gaming
k4ever: ....windows gaming on linux
Nevtus: so it's wine specific issues then? native stuff runs fine?
Ivanovic: sounds like a case of "it is too slow with the open source drivers compared to fglrx!" to me
Ivanovic: and no, there are zero estimates if/when the driver will be fast with gaming that relies on wine
Ivanovic: combined with: "are you sure that your graphics card is fast enough for red alert 3?"
Kame: Hmmm, maybe I will go with arch.... curse you indecisiveness!
Ivanovic: if the card is barely able to handle red alert 3 on windows it is unlikely that the open source driver with wine will ever be fast enough to really run it!
Ivanovic: Kame: want my advice for choosing?
robotti^: somebody who knows about steam?
Ivanovic: Kame: list all alternatives on a sheet of paper
robotti^: it is wrong place to ask? :D
Ivanovic: Kame: use a (combination of) dice that allows you a fair distribution regarding the possible options
Nevtus: robotti^: what about steam?
Ivanovic: check the entry you find
Ivanovic: use that one
robotti^: Nevtus: more accurately. it is about source engine. it is supporting now opengl? If I am correctly understand it?
k4ever: yes, its wine specific. driver doesn't support shading
Ivanovic: (personally i can say that archlinux is a good choice if you want a rolling release distribution, are able to read and follow a howto, and don't want to compile stuff yourself
Nevtus: only in the mac builds
robotti^: Nevtus: not on windows builds?
Nevtus: nope, and so it won't help wine support
robotti^: too bad. because I was thinking about running it on virtualbox. because it have opengl api
Nevtus: however natvie client is a *maybe* right now so it might not matter
Ivanovic: (if you are not willing/able to read and follow a howto i know about exactly zero distributions that fit your need of "rolling release", if your machine is fast enough and you are willing to compile yourself i personally perfer gentoo unstable)
Ivanovic: k4ever: for shading support you could try the gallium driver, it might offer a little more by now than "classic mesa", at least for your pre r6xx card
k4ever: it's been well over a year. when is the open source driver going to catch up?
robotti^: Nevtus: when linux build will be released. How mature it linux client is? Somebody have tested that client.
robotti^: If I am correctly understanded from screenshots.
Daekdroom: Gallium driver isn't always the best for Wine.
Ivanovic: k4ever: it will never *completely* catch up!
k4ever: i'm using a mobility x600
Daekdroom: It's all about testing both
Nevtus: robotti^: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgqdlA_jE8
Ivanovic: if you want to have "fast" 3d: you should stay with an old xorg-server (<=1.6.x) and catalyst 9.3
Ivanovic: this combination should offer the fastest you can get with your card
Ivanovic: though the card is most likely too slow to run the game you want even on windows
Ivanovic: face it, that graphics card is damn slow
robotti^: Nevtus: thank you!
k4ever: will old xserver work with 10.04?
Nevtus: robotti^: that was from binaries downloaded from the steam website. Valve have now made them inaccessable and have yet to offically confirm anything
Ivanovic: k4ever: no idea if there is a way to make it work with ubuntu
Ivanovic: but, uhm, if you were using ubuntu 9.4 you should be perfectly fine...
robotti^: Nevtus: it works quite good
robotti^: Nevtus: I am amazed
Nevtus: we just have to hope Valve continues with it and makes an offical annoucement soon
k4ever: guess i'll stick to using windows for gaming on my laptop.
k4ever: ..linux for everything else
robotti^: what about running windows version with wine?
robotti^: how bad is performance loss vs. native?
Ivanovic: k4ever: native games should work nicely, it is just wine that is, uhm, really problematic
k4ever: no issues with native games. however, i don't play them as much as i play the windows only titles. i'm addicted to red alert 3
k4ever: on my desktop (which has a nVidia card) i'm able to play red alert 3 in linux.
robotti^: using wine? :)
k4ever: i think ati really hosed themselves when they cut off legacy support. i can't bring myself to buy another one of thier cards. definitely not a laptop with an ati card in it ever again.
Ivanovic: k4ever: and what graphics card do you have in your desktop?
Ivanovic: might it be a little faster than an ancient x600 laptop edition?
robotti^: I run Mac OS X 10.6 on my macbook. But I would love run more linux on my laptop when steam is released to linux platform
Daekdroom: People blame ATI for their poor legacy support and nvidia for their non existant open source efforts..
Daekdroom: Nowhere to run D:
k4ever: i don't even remember.
Ivanovic: should be shown somewhere in dmesg or the likes
robotti^: k4ever: I think nvidia is much better because of their drivers are much better.
Daekdroom: robotti^, on the other hand, they don't help the opensource community.
k4ever: robotti: i agree. they have always offered better support for linux
Kame: Meh, if the open source community wants good open source graphics drivers, they should make open source graphics cards :D
robotti^: k4ever: and they also support freebsd.
Ivanovic: Minimum: Windows XP SP2, AMD Athlon 3000+/Intel P4 2.2GHz or equivalent, 1GB of RAM, 6GB free on HD, nVidia GeForce 6 series/ATI X1800 or better, DX9c or 10 compatible sound.
robotti^: They have FreeBSD drivers.
Ivanovic: yeah, your x600 *is* not meeting the requirements even for windows!
k4ever: Daekdroom: i don't think they need to.
Ivanovic: so how should it honestly work on linux with the open source driver that is *known* to be slower than the proprietary one?
k4ever: ivanovic: it works fine on the x600 in windows
Ivanovic: k4ever: it is a clear bordercase anyway
Kame: Whelp, I'm off to install arch, be back soon.... hopefully
k4ever: guess its about time to shoot this laptop
robotti^: I think ATI's Windows OpenGL driver is also bad? I am not sure though. Because it is many years when I last used Windows PC with Ati gpu..
k4ever: i have a brand new laptop with an (cough, cough) intel gma card.
robotti^: but their OpenGL drivers sucks onWindows. When I last used it.
robotti^: k4ever: but it is well supported
robotti^: you can run half-life 2 with it (:
robotti^: it is good game also :)
Ivanovic: robotti^: don't think so
robotti^: Ivanovic: What you mean?
Ivanovic: robotti^: it was completely replaces some years ago
Ivanovic: three or four years IIRC
Ivanovic: this driver was some time later ported as base for the linux driver (opengl potion of it)
Ivanovic: and it is competing nicely from what i know (speedwise)
k4ever: oh well. time to go. thanks for the conversation
Ivanovic: (talking about the ati opengl driver, not about intel)
robotti^: Ivanovic: it was years ago, when I last used ATI hardware
Ivanovic: i am using ati graphics cards for year (mainly relying on open source drivers!) and they do their job for me (i don't use wine *at all*)
robotti^: bad experiences with and then switched to nvidia hardware
Ivanovic: was using fglrx while there was no 2D accel in the open source drivers for my hd3850
Ivanovic: was not too bad then, working really good regarding speed in 3d and basically okayish
Ivanovic: (okay, for installing i do rely on my system package manager which makes sure that i can cleanly install and remove the driver)
robotti^: how about support windows 3d games running on wine?
RambJoe: linux > ep3 :(
Ivanovic: robotti^: like i said, no idea since i simply don't use it
RambJoe: ffs they better release a linux client
RambJoe: im not buying episode 3 if they don't
Ivanovic: RambJoe: i am not buying HL2, HL2:EP1, HL2:EP2 and the other games if there is no linux client
RambJoe: is the mac steam case sensitive
Ivanovic: why just talk about EP3?
robotti^: RambJoe: no
robotti^: RambJoe: or yes
Ivanovic: RambJoe: it is case shizophrenic
RambJoe: becaues i have the other games lol
RambJoe: hmm idea for an email to gabe
Ivanovic: in the default install it *should* be case insensitive
robotti^: RambJoe: for default Mac OS X does not use case sensitive file system
robotti^: but it case preserve
robotti^: it is
RambJoe: do you plan on releasing steam for case sensitive file systems like ext4
Ivanovic: RambJoe: they have to fix case sensitiveness anyway
robotti^: you can also use case sensitive. but some programs wroted for case-insensitivity
Ivanovic: RambJoe: there are simply too many combinations even on mac where it breaks otherwise
robotti^: and those does not work well then
robotti^: like blizzard games
robotti^: must use case-insensitive file systems
RambJoe: wonder if they'll make us use a case insensitive file system lol
RambJoe: was there any clues in the linux client files?
Daekdroom: Can't they use a GVFS layer for that?
Daekdroom: Well.. rather.. Fuse
robotti^: I think they modified code for support both systems. case sensitive and other.
RambJoe: the blog got it from there
RambJoe: seems legit lol
robotti^: some time ago I installed mac os x on case sensitive formatted HFS+ and I was very confused why it cannot run or find some files. Because it were write some files with uppercase letters and othes not. And it cannot find files when searching file update.bin because file were named like Update.bin
robotti^: then I formatted little case insensitive partition and installed games there.
RambJoe: the steam forum is full of frauds lol
robotti^: cause were not from system, it was cause for case-insensitive games
robotti^: RambJoe: There were many irritating CS:S noobs. Who are just trolling there.
RambJoe: lol css
RambJoe: they;'re all complaing about the update
RambJoe: when the update fixed hit reg
RambJoe: any ideas to add to an email to gabe about linux?
RambJoe: i'll link him to the steam linux threads
robotti^: false information spread on africa
robotti^: they just lie (:
robotti^: RambJoe: what mail?
RambJoe: asking about e3 and linux
RambJoe: i know he wont reply though :(
RambJoe: http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/SomeoneMagazine/gabeemail-1.png wonder if thats real lol
tkmorris: I guess it is not
RambJoe: he may have just added someone to his contact list and called him gabe newell lol
tkmorris: I tried to e-mail gaben and my e-mails were returned
tkmorris: address non existent
robotti^: I think they release EP3 on next year
robotti^: or later on this year on winter?
RambJoe: the adress is
tkmorris: tried that one too
tkmorris: or maybe they just blocked gmail entirely
robotti^: because of spam?
RambJoe: http://i50.tinypic.com/rvheth.jpg lol wut
robotti^: everybody is spamming valve about future releases?
RambJoe: oh that would explain why he doesn't replt to me
RambJoe: maybe his inbox was ful lol
robotti^: when it'll be then released?
RambJoe: everyone keeps hoping for DX11 in new source engine rofl
robotti^: not going to happen
RambJoe: i know
RambJoe: opengl ftw
robotti^: OpenGL is future for Source engine.
dandel: DX10 might go into source, but most likely not.
tkmorris: well, firstname.lastname@example.org got not answer at all
RambJoe: never answers me :(
tkmorris: maybe Linux questions are just deleted
tkmorris: I even ended the message with: Thank you this much |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| in advance.
RambJoe: maybe as it's secret
tkmorris: maybe if the bar was larger
tkmorris: 20 lines or something
robotti^: dandel: I think they are not planning to support DX10, because they have quite much WIN XP users. And nowadays also crossplatform gaming like mac. And maybe future Linux platform. It would lot easier to support jus only OpenGL api. And not both of those APIs
dandel: then that means the intel users are going to wine.
robotti^: And OpenGL is not platform dependend
tkmorris: and OpenGL is stable
RambJoe: there's a new employee here somewhre http://valvesoftware.com/company/people.html
skyhirider: whats that ?
robotti^: today is my birthday. I would love to have Steam for Linux for my birthday present
RambJoe: exif data of that image
RambJoe: send that to gabe lol
Modplan: Send it to gabe appears to be the solution of the day
tkmorris: send him some chocolates too
RambJoe: i know
RambJoe: a penguin cake
robotti^: send some chocolate to Gabe. Then Gabe give us some love
robotti^: It would be nice if you make cake and send it to valve.
RambJoe: where are they
RambJoe: it would probably go off by the time it reaches america :(
RambJoe: oh yeah
RambJoe: i thought it was the state
tkmorris: I don't know if someone would eat it
RambJoe: redmon or sometwhere
tkmorris: but it's the gesture that counts
RambJoe: Postal address:
RambJoe: PO BOX 1688
RambJoe: Bellevue, WA 98009
robotti^: write there: for Valve Linux and EP3 team
robotti^: and Gabe Newell
robotti^: Revenue â–² $70 million USD (2007)
robotti^: quite low. I believed that they are bigger.
robotti^: because of steam
robotti^: I was wrong. It was washington state.
robotti^: not washington d.c
robotti^: I should go to sleep
robotti^: too tired
mikeplus64: What's going to happen if Valve does say that there will be a Steam client on Linux? Will there be a "IT'S SLIGHTLY MORE OFFICIAL THIS TIME: STEAM ON LINUX COMFIRMED!!!" announcement on Phoronix?
Daekdroom: "It's officially official!"
Rednaxela: considers Phoronix to be a tabloid where anything but benchmarks are concerned
Rednaxela: Hmm, if one looks at http://valvesoftware.com/company/people.html who else finds the notes about Alfred Reynolds interesting?
Rednaxela: "He also does his best to maintain the Linux ports of our games." <- What ports? I don't think a half life dedicated server counts.
Rednaxela: And it says that before it says "Most recently, he lead the Steam development efforts to bring third party applications to", so does this suggest they have internal-use-only linux ports up their sleeves?
ryan22: its what apple did
ryan22: i would be surprized if they had a linux version of steam ready for years
ryan22: they are likely just waiting for things to stablize ;)
Rednaxela: Hah, unlike they've had a linux version of steam for years
ryan22: we have to earn steam, i guess
Rednaxela: considering how the leaked binaries were
Rednaxela: and how the webkit move was very recent
Ivanovic: considering the amount of bugs the mac versions still have...
Nevtus: what about all those first-time-linux style errors with the case senstive problems from the binaries on the website?
ryan22: i guess im worng then
ryan22: they are definitely porting the mac version
ryan22: as the mac is case insensitive
Ivanovic: i guess that they will use the mac platform as testcase for the engine, since many things are similar between mac and linux (both are basically posix conform which windows clearly is not...)
Rednaxela: But given the description of that one dev there, it sounds likely certain individual games might have internal-only linux ports
Nevtus: ryan22: what are you talking about? The mac version is already out?
ryan22: mac os x is case insentitive, so those case errors wouldnt matter
ryan22: so they are likely using the mac version to port
ryan22: so it wasnt developed independantly like i suggested
Nevtus: that's actually bad for us since they'd have to clean up the sloppy code for it to work
Nevtus: *for it to work on linux
ryan22: this is why macports is such a mess
ryan22: case insenitivity is what screws up ports from linux to mac os x
Nevtus: don't you mean mac os to linux ports?
ryan22: both ways
ryan22: macports is a bsd style package repository for mac os x
Nevtus: it wouldn't hurt the other way. Case sensitive matching is good code practice anyway even if the OS doesn't care
Ivanovic: most languages really used these days are case sensitive
Nevtus: I meant for file paths
Ivanovic: so if you code in a case sensitive language, you can also take care to match the case for filenames
robotti^: maybe I should again make new mac os x partition and format it case sensitive
Ivanovic: (should not be this much overhead on the coders side...)
Ivanovic: robotti^: that was the first thing i did ages ago when i got my ibook
Ivanovic: formatting the harddrive case sensitive and journaled before reinstalling OSX
Nevtus: the mac build doesn't support case sensitive filesystems
robotti^: Ivanovic: sad thing is that it breaks games and some software
ryan22: youll likely break alot
Ivanovic: robotti^: honestly, for me nothing i used was broken!
ryan22: just cause the case insensitivey makes the devs a little sloppy
Nevtus: robotti^: those games and software are poorly written ;)
Ivanovic: that was in osx10.4 days on a ppc
robotti^: Ivanovic: blizzard games
robotti^: and steam
ryan22: windows ports
Ivanovic: honestly, gaming on an ibook g4?
Nevtus: windows devs...
Ivanovic: good joke, dude...
robotti^: diablo 2
robotti^: it works
Ivanovic: there were not too many games that i really wanted to play
Ivanovic: basically wesnoth
Ivanovic: and of course wesnoth
Ivanovic: yeah, i also played "marble blast", is really fun, too
Ivanovic: beside this i played wesnoth
robotti^: diablo 2 is good game :)
ryan22: they dont have a working tuxracer in macports ;(
ryan22: or super tux
Ivanovic: anyway, time for some sleep, n8
robotti^: I should go to sleep
robotti^: you too
ragix: some of the quake1 ports are nice on linux :D
skyhirider: wesnoth is a good game, a tad bit slow and boring at times thou
Rednaxela: Here's a thought: Someone should develop the equivalent of Wine, for Mac OS APIs.
Rednaxela: If it was done well, it would probably run Mac ports of games better than Wine runs windows games
ryan22: i think they should port the freebsd linux compatibility layer
ryan22: they have that
ryan22: its called darwine
ryan22: oh the other way around
ryan22: eh it would be useless
ryan22: 95% of mac games just use cider anyways
ryan22: which is wine ;)
robotti^: Rednaxela: somebody developed mac os api system similar to api
robotti^: trying to search about
robotti^: google <--
ryan22: robotti^: wait no its called gnustep
robotti^: ryan22: No. I am not talking about that :)
robotti^: I should get sleep :(
RambJoe: due to the ammount of fatty jokes
Rednaxela: Niiiiice RambJoe
RambJoe: epic fail at showng his IP
RambJoe: thats from sweden lol
RambJoe: and that photo there is confirmed fake lol
Rednaxela: Well, "edited by photoshop" isn't proof of fakeness RambJoe
Rednaxela: I'm sure there are people who use photoshop for simple cropping even
RambJoe: created, saved, saved, saved, saved, converted, derived, saved, saved
RambJoe: thats a lot of croppign lol
RambJoe: am i the only one that thinks something doesn't quite add up with the hard drive space?
Rednaxela: Minimum is greater than recommended hard disk space? Lol
RambJoe: yeah lol
RambJoe: so you need 20GB free space on a 15GB harddrive
Rednaxela: And about that exif data, that "a lot of cropping" has history times stating that it took 5 minutes
Rednaxela: I can see five minutes being a a realistic editing time if one is being really picky or something
Rednaxela: Yeah, I would expect some more official pictures they post to have stripped exif (or be rendered by something that doesn't produce exif)
RambJoe: thats what valve's exif looks like
Rednaxela: Well that's stripped exif. I'm sure that's done for the most official things
RambJoe: i think that site is frauding though
RambJoe: the ip is even from Swden
RambJoe: and why would gabe post there
RambJoe: they didn't even screenshot the reply
Rednaxela: Could be likely frauding
RambJoe: well we're safe
RambJoe: could still be steam for linux confirmed :D
Rednaxela: lol, that exif there is more damning of that post, lol
Rednaxela: exact same ps version
Rednaxela: "Adobe XMP Core 4.2.2-c063 53.352624, 2008/07/30-18:12:18"
Rednaxela: Down to the very specific revision
Rednaxela: Now, still doesn't rule out it being fake since perfectly possible that a person posting claims would have resized and image for reposting or something
Rednaxela: but looks like likely fake
Rednaxela: *resized the image
RambJoe: created, saved, saved, saved, saved, converted, derived, saved, saved lol
ryan22: google has relicensed webm under the bsd license
ryan22: meaning it can now be added to ffmpeg and mplayer
RambJoe: http://i37.tinypic.com/v58n4p.png gabe coolface
Rednaxela: Webm will interest me more if MPEG-LA backs off, haha
ryan22: well we dont have h.264 patents in canada, so it doesnt interest me at all
ryan22: but im happy that google is now working with the community
ryan22: they put it out there and expected everyone to support it, instead communicating with the developers of the a/v OSS projects
Rednaxela: Though we don't have h264 patents in Canada, I still care because it influences content coming from elsewhere and what formats will be used ;)
ryan22: i agree
Rednaxela: And also affects Canadian producers of content that wish to distribute elsewhere
ryan22: the royality fee for h.264 is $0.20 per device
ryan22: Google needs to do a transparent patent audit before VP8 can be taken seriously. I doubt if it infringes on the MPEG-LA patents that the MPEG-LA will ask for less than $0.20 per device for compensation.
ryan22: until those issues are clearing encoding with vp8 is like walking on glass
ryan22: h.264 is a safer bet but at least you can license the patents
JEEB: I'd rather hope for something big that'd actually change the whole patent system... but I guess I'm just daydreaming >_>
ryan22: well most countries dont have software patents
JEEB: Yah, I don't have to pay anything to MPEG-LA either
JEEB: is from .fi
ryan22: we need to fight as hard as we can to keep those rights
ryan22: and not tolerate stuff like this: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5086/135/
Rednaxela: ryan22: ... was JUST about the reference that mess =\
ryan22: theyre trying to bring in the DMCA into canada and we canadians need to fight this tooth and nail
JEEB: I just wish there actually would be some kind of a bigger lawsuit etc. on patents which would end up with software patents' abolishment.
JEEB: But yeah, daydreaming
Rednaxela: Some aspects of a copyright reform bill like that make sense.... but NOT the DMCA-like parts
ryan22: digital locks are a load of BS
ryan22: just cuz someone decided to encrypt the content, doesnt mean i dont own it
Rednaxela: Honestly, I think digital locks while annoying are not fundamentally objectionable- IF AND ONLY IF they're legal to break
RambJoe: valve probably use photoshop on mac dont they?
ryan22: some of the ubuntu icon and website devs as use mac os x, which i dont find objectionable
ryan22: use the best tool for the job
RambJoe: well those pics were from windows
Kame: I liiiiiiiiiiive
Kame: That was a pretty brutal install
Modplan: hahaha, new half-life 2 bug, or maybe even wine problem
ryan22: Kame: install of what
Kame: It was all "noooooo, you don't need the core repository enabled, trust me"
ryan22: did it promise cake?
ryan22: cuz that when you start being afraid
Kame: ...... why is the sudoers file read only for root?
Kame: oh nevermind
Kame: I'm dumb
ryan22: you have to edit via visudo ;)
Kame: Yeah, figured that out :p
ryan22: man debian/ubuntu has spoiled me
ryan22: i dont have a root user really
ryan22: root is a security flaw imo
Kame: I currently have a root user that can be logged into and doesn't have a password :D
ryan22: my root user has a random password that i dont know ;)
Kame: Can anyone tell me why pacman seems to take like 10 seconds between downloading each file?
skyhirider: heh, good security Kane :D
ryan22: probably checking deps
ryan22: and trying diff sources
Kame: I'd already be done setting up my system if it wasn't doing this
Kame: Oh there we go, using powerpill made it go 100000000000000000000 times faster
RambJoe: is valve in the mircoroft conference at e3 lol
SageX: I hope we get a linux client
ryan22: not sure if this got sent: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2010-April/003769.html