NigeyUK: meh
Ivanovic: huh?
NigeyUK: sundays suck
Ivanovic: why?
NigeyUK: nothing to do
NigeyUK: everywhere is closed etc etc
NigeyUK: and its a bank holiday so same thing tomorrow!
NigeyUK: oo 1 person has voted no in the poll :o
NigeyUK: heretic!
NigeyUK: ello christian_lappy
christian_lappy: morning NigeyUK
NigeyUK: that idiot from 5by5 got back to me yesterday lol
christian_lappy: 5by5 ?
NigeyUK: yeah they did a video interview with gabe and jason, and failed to ask about the linux client, but managed to mention everything else, so i wrote and complained
NigeyUK: hey mod!
Ivanovic: what was his reply?
NigeyUK: basically said it was down to his poor planning and in future they will viewer questions
NigeyUK: accept*
christian_lappy: idiot
NigeyUK: yeah big idiot cause it was the perfect chance to put gabe on the spot and say something
christian_lappy: absolutely
NigeyUK: let me find the full reply..
NigeyUK: This is why I need to announce (and actually plan) the topics a bit more in advance - I just didn't think about it, but it would have been a question to ask. In the future, I'll be working to announce topics ahead of time, and take listener questions.
NigeyUK: moron
christian_lappy: uahhhhh
christian_lappy: every guy in the world has heard about the steam linux rumors
NigeyUK: exactly!
christian_lappy: and he has an intetview with the valve boss and does not ask about that
NigeyUK: he mentioned everything else you could imagine about x-platform support, but forgot linux...
christian_lappy: or he wasnt allowed to ask
christian_lappy: and istn allowed to tell
NigeyUK: well i did ask in my email if he was not allowed, but i guess if thats the case he wouldnt admit it
christian_lappy: yup
NigeyUK: but the subject was totally
NigeyUK: > ignored, was this on purpose? did valve ask you not to mention it?
NigeyUK: i was very blunt lol surprised he got back to me actually lol
christian_lappy: i really hope something happens in Jube
bluekoala: I have a question regarding electricity
jvizzle: bluekoala i have you don't like in florida
bluekoala: Ah?
bluekoala: You have I don't like in florida?
bluekoala: You should share your drugs, they seem very effective
mastertheknife: heh
jvizzle: hahha... no sleep:( im sad
mastertheknife: bluekoala: what was your question about electricity?
bluekoala: Ok
bluekoala: I want to evalute building a gauss cannon
bluekoala: But I want to know
bluekoala: How fast can a capacitor discharge?
bluekoala: Is it instant or gradual?
mastertheknife: instant
mastertheknife: its why its used in cameras for flash for example
bluekoala: And if I put 2 in parallel, does the voltage double or just the amperange?
mastertheknife: Just the capacity
bluekoala: Right
bluekoala: I hear that 1 farad = 500 watts
mastertheknife: (if you connect them from output leg to input leg of the other)
bluekoala: But let's say I get 500v @ 1amp
bluekoala: And I have 2 in parallel on the same circuit
bluekoala: So I'll have effectively 1000v@2amps?
mastertheknife: In parallel it will be just capacity increase
bluekoala: Right
bluekoala: But when it discharges
mastertheknife: But if you connect in series, yes, voltage should increase
mastertheknife: I just found this
mastertheknife: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits#Capacitors
bluekoala: I would not try caps in series
mastertheknife: check out Capacitors for both Parallel and Series sections
bluekoala: Oh hmmmmmmm
bluekoala: Thanks mastertheknife!
mastertheknife: np simple google lol
bluekoala: Yeah I didn't know how to approach google on the subject
bluekoala: I had already made a schematic in my mind
bluekoala: On the coilgun but now I see flaws in the design
bluekoala: Like when you pull the trigger, you get electrocuted
bluekoala: It could be called the "Feel the pain of your target" feature
giselher: lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaT7thTxyq8&feature=player_embedded
adrian_broher: damn, that's fast.
RambJoe: im retarded
RambJoe: i was booting from the live cd on arch linux :$
somename: does somebody know what the standard font in xchat is?
RambJoe: freemono i think it was
somename: cant find freemono
somename: but i found monospace
The_Muh: something wrong with this? http://pastebin.com/1Cka3xJC
The_Muh: i cant send mails
somename: 13:37: L337 |20(|<5
NigeyUK|: meep meep
giselher: hy
NigeyUK|: hey giselher
meGenius: ^road runner
NigeyUK|: yush! RR kicks ass
NigeyUK|: time to wake the neighbours up with some Lab 4 i think
meGenius: you like it??
NigeyUK|: hell yeah!
meGenius: i would be thankful if he is eaten just once!
meGenius: :D
meGenius: he always wins
NigeyUK|: lol dont wish that on the poor thing :(
meGenius: :D
meGenius: you are so romantic, NigeyUK :P
NigeyUK: :P
mastertheknife: hey
NigeyUK: oo 64 votes :o
NigeyUK: hey mastertheknife !!!!
meGenius: NigeyUK: what about tweetie??
NigeyUK: tweetie is a terrorist in discuise
meGenius: :D
mastertheknife: hey Nigey
mastertheknife: how you doing?
NigeyUK: im good dude, just waking up :|
NigeyUK: u?
meGenius: isn't the time 13PM in UK, NigeyUK??
mastertheknife: not that good
NigeyUK: 2pm yup
mastertheknife: I have so much work on cleaning up and renewing my room lol
meGenius: so, you just woke up??
NigeyUK: oh god, i did all the tidying last night before bed so i can do bugger all until i have to go out about 5pm :D
NigeyUK: Megagun, bout 1 i got up .. lol
NigeyUK: oops
NigeyUK: meGenius*
mastertheknife: You know it when there is so much work to do, you just become frusturated from looking at the list and in the end, do nothing
mastertheknife: i'm only delaying things because looking at the list scares me
NigeyUK: yup, i get that quite often :(
mastertheknife: and then i never complete them
NigeyUK: the joys of adulthood eh :(
mastertheknife: I think i should try a new approach, instead of looking at all, i'll try finishing the "list" slowly
NigeyUK: see you the end of next year then? :P
mastertheknife: hehe not that slow
NigeyUK: lol
mastertheknife: i'm just a very lazy person it seems
mastertheknife: there are days i wake up and feel all energized and like, what am i gonna do today etc
mastertheknife: and there are days i wake up tired and feel tired all day
NigeyUK: i get like that though, loads to do but no ummf to make me do it
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I thought its not like that with a gf
mastertheknife: gf motivates and actually forces you to do some things
NigeyUK: haha oh you've no idea! lol
NigeyUK: that wears off after a while
NigeyUK: cant let her win every time
mastertheknife: oh
NigeyUK: i want to be my cat
NigeyUK: i think he sleeps 22 hours a day
mastertheknife: heh
mastertheknife: many cats are like that
mastertheknife: I have a dog
mastertheknife: and i never see it sleeping
mastertheknife: him*
mastertheknife: actually a she, my bad
mastertheknife: I never see her sleep
NigeyUK: dogs are useful, cats are just err.. well i dunno, not useful..my hamster is more useful than the cat!
mastertheknife: only taking naps now and then on the sofa
meGenius: somebody is talking about the cats....
meGenius: cats are the best:P
mastertheknife: cats are very snobby
NigeyUK: put a cat dog and hamster in the same room for an hour and see who eats who !
mastertheknife: I had a puppy cat 5 years ago
mastertheknife: she was really cute
NigeyUK: awww
mastertheknife: we only had her for few months before she was ran over by a car
NigeyUK: ah dude thats awful :(
mastertheknife: she was actually sleeping under my mom's car
mastertheknife: some day
mastertheknife: no idea why she did it
mastertheknife: so anyways, when my mom turned on the car and went to work she heard her scream, then she was all bleeding and died
NigeyUK: weird!
NigeyUK: awwww :(
mastertheknife: i cried so much that day
mastertheknife: ever since, i always watch to make sure our dog isn't under the car
NigeyUK: cats do often go under cars, for some very odd reason :|
mastertheknife: the heat from the warm engine i guess
mastertheknife: and to avoid wind
NigeyUK: could be yup
NigeyUK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I2BVnGnI1Q&feature=related
NigeyUK: haha awsome music
giselher: wtf, strange music :)
NigeyUK: check this 1
NigeyUK: Yoji kicking ass
NigeyUK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HPJe8rpzmM
NigeyUK: http://www.puppygames.net/revenge-of-the-titans/
NigeyUK: looks funky
meGenius: great game
NigeyUK: Hello,
NigeyUK: I'm new to Steam and just downloaded it to my Macintosh on May 12th. My question is what is with all the updates and are they normal? Every time I start Steam I get an update and I just want to know if it was my application or if this is something that is common.
NigeyUK: only a retarded mac fanboi would ask that
adrian_broher: oh noes! updates! make them go away!
MPX: Ahhh link?
NigeyUK: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1274582
NigeyUK: lol adrian_broher
Sleepy_Coder: NigeyUK: They're still getting a feel on how to support the Mac, and there are still quite a few feature requests/bugs they are dealing with. :> It's not as common on the PC, and I wouldn't expect it to stay that way on the Mac for more than a month. I usually only get an update on Win 7 every week or so, not every day
Sleepy_Coder: oh you're not asking :S
Sleepy_Coder: I can't read :D
NigeyUK: lol np
Ivanovic: Sleepy_Coder: this does not distinguish you in any way from about 95% of all internet users!
Ivanovic: ^^
Sleepy_Coder: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/java reading off of this :p
Sleepy_Coder: NOT LISTENING TO YOU
Sleepy_Coder: buwhahaha
Sleepy_Coder: managed to clock his i5 750 to 4 x 4.6Ghz :-)
Sleepy_Coder: Don't laugh at my impracticality.
Sleepy_Coder: I"M WASTING POWER AND I LIKE IT
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0A77rohcyg&feature=related
ryan-mini__: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCGmjmazE5c
mastertheknife: ryan-mini__: LOL
christian_lappy: steam forums down ?
The_Muh: they preparing the release *hope*
christian_lappy: anything special announced for today ?
RambJoe: what have i missed
christian_lappy: nothin
RambJoe: oh
christian_lappy: do steam froums work for you ?
christian_lappy: the whole steam side does not work for me
RambJoe: works here
christian_lappy: really ?
RambJoe: yes
RambJoe: well forums do
christian_lappy: i get an timeout from the site
RambJoe: --- store.steampowered.com ping statistics ---
RambJoe: 1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
RambJoe: wut
christian_lappy: 4 pings, lost 2
giselher: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux
giselher: ^ is also down
RambJoe: yeah its hosted on the same server
giselher: :D
RambJoe: i did keep losing connection of css beta too :s
christian_lappy: why does it work for RambJoe ?
RambJoe: but tahts probably nothing to do with it
RambJoe: only the forums work
christian_lappy: for me,no
giselher: is the site hosted on a linux server?
RambJoe: http://63.228.223.107/
RambJoe: what is that
christian_lappy: nothing works here
RambJoe: thats the default apache page isn't it lopl
christian_lappy: don't think so
giselher: forum works here too
christian_lappy: http://store.steampowered.com/forums/
christian_lappy: does not work here
RambJoe: no
RambJoe: its
RambJoe: forums.steampowered.com/forums
christian_lappy: ok, thats a different server
RambJoe: im pretty sure that that is the apache page once you've set it up though lol
RambJoe: http://63.228.223.107/ that one
Midler: RambJoe: y
Midler: it is
christian_lappy: ah, ok
alexandernst: what does that meaaaaaaannnnnn ???
alexandernst: end of world??
giselher: beginning of a new age of linux gaming
RambJoe: no it means valve didn't delete their test page on their linux servers
alexandernst: I can't support that any more!!! I want steam!! NOOOOOWW !!
Ivanovic: alexandernst: you could try to get the analog version of steam
Midler: they might have virtual directories
Ivanovic: put a pot with water on the heart, turn it on and wait
Midler: and trying to connect to ip dosnt get u anywhere
christian_lappy: hehe ..going over the ip
alexandernst: Ivanovic: nah, I'm fine ;) Just making noise here
RambJoe: extensions.checkCompatibility.3.7a5 is that right?
Nevtus: what are you talking about. ths steam linux page still 403s and I can access the forums just fine
Ivanovic: would provide you with some steam...
Ivanovic: ;)
RambJoe: you know when you ping a site it says the IP
RambJoe: how do you find out the port?
christian_lappy: RambJoe: port of what ?
Nevtus: there can be lots of ports open
RambJoe: websites
RambJoe: yeah but like what port a dns points too
christian_lappy: RambJoe: dns isnt for ports
RambJoe: oh
christian_lappy: RambJoe: wbesite use 80
christian_lappy: RambJoe: or 443
RambJoe: what so all sites have to be on a different IP
RambJoe: for a dns to work
christian_lappy: nope
christian_lappy: many different site can be on the same ip
RambJoe: how though
christian_lappy: apaiche name based virtual hosts is for that
RambJoe: if dns servers cant point to a different port
Nevtus: look up vhosts
RambJoe: i thought you assign different ports though :S
Nevtus: dns just points to the domain
christian_lappy: RambJoe: no..the webserver checks your http get request to see what domain you are browsing
RambJoe: i thought dns was the domain
RambJoe: oh
adrian_broher: the dns protocol is provided via 53 udp
christian_lappy: RambJoe: then it leads you to the correct webroot
RambJoe: NameVirtualHost *:5515
RambJoe: so it would be like valvesoftware.com for that or something
adrian_broher: uhm
RambJoe: oh ServerName
adrian_broher: if you send an http 1.1 request there is a header for the host that you want to access. IIRC the key name is Host (rfc 2616)
RambJoe: fuck i broke firefox 3.7
RambJoe: you cant install addons on that POS without it breaking -.-
mastertheknife: steam site really down it seems
mastertheknife: forums works though
RambJoe: so is valvesoftware
RambJoe: / really slow
RambJoe: favicon loaded
RambJoe: or cached
RambJoe: omfg how do i change what .ini files open in
Modplan: Gish has gone open source if it wasn't already posted
Modplan: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Gish-goes-open-source
Modplan: (Gish was in humble indie bundle)
RambJoe: does that mean its free then
giselher: yeah, that was absolutely the best game of the humble indie bundle
Modplan: Rambjoe: The code is, art assets aren't
RambJoe: oh
Modplan: though lugaru is in the playdeb repositories
RambJoe: does anyone here use firefox 3.7
ryan22: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Processor_families_in_TOP500_supercomputers.svg/1000px-Processor_families_in_TOP500_supercomputers.svg.png
ryan22: ^ i like that graph
kurros: RambJoe, i have it but havent run it much lately because the nightlies a broken a bit
RambJoe: oh
RambJoe: does it break everytime you install an addon?
kurros: yeah, the add-on manager, download manager are all kinda broken atm. at least in the ubuntu nightlies
RambJoe: :(
kurros: i know the add-on manager is a work in progress but the download manager doesnt even render any items
RambJoe: when i install an addon
RambJoe: i get an XML error
RambJoe: and i have to delete my firefox profile to fix
RambJoe: think the sites coming back btw
RambJoe: i can see the page source of store.steampowered.ciom
giselher: steampowered is up again :D
RambJoe: :D
RambJoe: slow for me
RambJoe: i still cant she shit on screen
RambJoe: and our linux files are still 403d :(
Nevtus: that isn't a bad thing RambJoe
giselher: no this time they are missing ?
giselher: oh sorry
giselher: 403 :(
Nevtus: I'd rather 403 than 404
Sleepy_Coder: I'd rather 400 than 404
Sleepy_Coder: >8D
Forsaken: anyone know how to use the BROADCAST_RGB for the intel gfx driver ?
Rednaxela: Sleepy_Coder: What about 500? :P
mydak: hello
Sleepy_Coder: Rednaxela: nou
Rednaxela: nou?
giselher: NigeyUK: over 100 votes already :)
NigeyUK: yep, im quite surprised, steamonlinux is a busy little site :o
giselher: but 2 Votes for NO :(
NigeyUK: yeah, thats 2 people off my xmas card list!
giselher: The most annoying thing about steam on linux is that I have to install ArchLinux on my gaming pc
Nevtus: NigeyUK: are you getting many page views on that site?
NigeyUK: yeah, ill get you some stats when i finish this article
NigeyUK: http://www.steamonlinux.com/?p=80
NigeyUK: let the flame war begin *hides*
NigeyUK: Nevtus,
NigeyUK: Month Daily Avg Monthly Totals
NigeyUK: Hits Files Pages Visits Sites KBytes Visits Pages Files Hits
NigeyUK: May 2010 1128 600 161 83 1151 114654 1589 3077 11404 21440
NigeyUK: so .. 3077 page view up until midnight this morning, not bad for a site thats had bugger all content, and only been up 10 days
Nevtus: NigeyUK: your site needs a favicon. It's weird to see a site without one these days
NigeyUK: oh dam, i forgot about that
Nevtus: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15197855&postcount=994
Nevtus: forums are lame
Nevtus: I do use forums but irc is better
NigeyUK: someone asked about forums for the website, i dont see the need for them tbh
adrian_broher: write him that a mailing list is suffient
adrian_broher: that schould scare him away
adrian_broher: -c
NigeyUK: haha so true, fear majordomo!
RambJoe: why would we need a forum, we don't even have the client files to post on it lol :(
Nevtus: NigeyUK: you should have a tips@steamonlinux.com
NigeyUK: actually we do ..
RambJoe: i mean to update
NigeyUK: but i cant put them for download, valve would kick my ass
NigeyUK: ahh
NigeyUK: Nevtus, ive got enquiries? you think tips aswell ?
Nevtus: oh, contact page. never noticed that
NigeyUK: :p
RambJoe: why is the valve site still down/slow
RambJoe: ah its up just slow
Modplan: maybe high demand from their half-life 2 release
NigeyUK: been slow all day for some reason :(
Modplan: or maybe they're prepping for linux releasSTEAMCONFIRMED!!!!111111
RambJoe: there is still no http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/v5/platforms/platform_linux.png
RambJoe: :(
NigeyUK: haha i was looking at that couple of weeks back
NigeyUK: tried allsorts of names for the image but nowt :(
RambJoe: lol same i keep checking it
RambJoe: oh and the steam play png
RambJoe: its mac and windows in the same image :(
scheka: http://scheka.org/files/platform_steamplay.png
scheka: :D
NigeyUK: lol nice 1 scheka
RambJoe: http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/v5/platforms/platform_steamplay.png i dont like the look of it
RambJoe: would make more sense to have steam play as its own image then have the windows, mac (and linux) ones next to it
NigeyUK: Nevtus, i made and uploaded a favicon but it doesnt show up :|
Nevtus: RambJoe: tried messing around with the v5 part?
Nevtus: I did but nothing obvious worked
RambJoe: um
RambJoe: whats the v5 url again
RambJoe: i keep losing my firefox profile and history lol
Nevtus: in the url you posted there is a "v5" part. Could stand for version 5 so maybe the linux one would be in "v6" or version six
RambJoe: yeah it is version 5 but it doesn't show up on mine
RambJoe: oh i see
RambJoe: in the img url
RambJoe: yeah since the new steam UI came out its been store vesrion 5
RambJoe: NigeyUK, i cant see code for favicon
NigeyUK: i need code? :|
NigeyUK: thought you just upload it to the webroot and it loads automatically
adrian_broher:
kurros: yeah, /favicon.ico, but you can specify it in an html , too
s_20: NigeyUK: the W3C doesn't want to just it there
s_20: +you
s_20: +put
s_20: what the hell is wrong with me.
NigeyUK: lol
NigeyUK: ill try adding it now
NigeyUK:
NigeyUK:
NigeyUK: should work .. but doesnt
RambJoe: maybe its the /
RambJoe: before favicon.ico
NigeyUK: ill try
NigeyUK: nope, and it doesnt show an an error in the logs anymore that it cant find it, how annoying
RambJoe: hmm
RambJoe: try
RambJoe:
RambJoe: or try SHORTCUT ICON in capitals
NigeyUK: oki, cheers
scheka: i think you only need a "favicon.ico" in the main directory. works for me
NigeyUK: that's what i thought
NigeyUK: unless it's cause the code is in the header.php
s_20: i can see the favicon in chrome
NigeyUK: weird, must be FF having an off day
scheka: you mean the favicon on http://www.steamonlinux.com/ ?
NigeyUK: yeah
NigeyUK: works for me now, had to restart ff
scheka: can see it in FF
Sonic1: Valve still pumping out new steam clients for you are they
Sonic1: ?
giselher: NigeyUK: Why has every one such silly avatars ? :D
NigeyUK: lol theyre kinda built into the cms
giselher: lol :)
adrian_broher: ah gravatar ...
giselher: Gravatar is f* awesome :)
adrian_broher: only with identicon icons
RambJoe: bash: ./configure: /bin/sh^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
RambJoe: whats that :S
RambJoe: oh i downloaded the windows one *facepalm*
NigeyUK: duh lol
Sleepy_Coder: lol
RambJoe: lol it didn't say it was windows and it was .tar.bz2
RambJoe: ffs i still get configure: error: PNG library doesn't have APNG support
RambJoe: :(
RambJoe: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/05/29/if-google-told-you-to-jump-off-a-cliff-would-you/ lol wut
NigeyUK: I would not jump. But if Apple told me... thats a different story. My soul belongs to Apple. All hail Steve B Jobs!
NigeyUK: Posted By Juan
NigeyUK: no comment!
kurros: yeah i'd totally do it if steve told me to
RambJoe: lol wut
RambJoe: not surprising
RambJoe: seeing as they'd also buy an ipad/iphone
kurros: if steve told me to
RambJoe: http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/route4-500x489.png
RambJoe: notice there actaullly is a side walk there
RambJoe: so she musy have just started walking off it like the line does LOl
NigeyUK: lol
NigeyUK: brb
Sleepy_Coder: That's not a sidewalk :p
Sleepy_Coder: It's the dirty side of the road
Sleepy_Coder: The thing that makes this retarded: Anyone on the internet could give advice on where she should walk to get to whichever destination.
Sleepy_Coder: Afaik, Google hasn't been official sanctioned by anyone to give you the safe/quick route.
Sleepy_Coder: officially*
Sleepy_Coder: Making it easy to defend.
RambJoe: oh lol
Tazzypillar: Anyone alive in here?
Tazzypillar: I could use some help
Rednaxela: Just ask the question Tazzypillar, people will answer if they know the answer :)
Tazzypillar: Mkay, I want to know what's considered to be the best GBA emulator out there for linux :U
Tazzypillar: Alternatively, why Visualboyadvance works so terribly on linux
Rednaxela: Well, I must say I don't know what you mean. I've had no issues with VBA before
ryan22: vbam is damn good
ryan22: the orginal visualboyadvance hasn't been updated in agaes
Tazzypillar: well the sound is stuttering really badly for me
Tazzypillar: trying to play Megaman Zero
Tazzypillar: Also I cant seem to configure it to use my gamepad
Tazzypillar: which i'd like as megaman on a keyboard is sorta..no
ryan22: http://sourceforge.net/projects/vbam/
Tazzypillar: o: thanks ryan
Tazzypillar: i'll try this
ryan22: you can use qjoypad to map your gamepad if vbam doesnt support it
ryan22: http://qjoypad.sourceforge.net/
Tazzypillar: again; many thanks :>
ryan22: no prob
Tazzypillar: ooh wait, vbaM is visualboy advance M?
Tazzypillar: I /think/ I just installed that
Tazzypillar: but i dont know how to launch it
ryan22: you need to compile it likely
Tazzypillar: i ran a deb of it
Tazzypillar: which is why
ryan22: ah i rember i add to make a launcher
ryan22: the command is vabm i think
ryan22: *had
ryan22: *vbam
Tazzypillar: yes, I do get configuration options if i run vbam
Tazzypillar: any hope of getting a frontend for it somewhere?
ryan22: it has one
ryan22: one sec
ryan22: Tazzypillar: its "gvbam"
Tazzypillar: O:
Tazzypillar: perfect, thanks~
ryan22: another awesome emulator is mednafen
ryan22: frontend: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mednafenfe/
ryan22: "An open source Game Boy, Lynx, NES, PC Engine, SuperGrafx, Neo Geo Pocket, PC-FX, and WonderSwan emulator " :P
Tazzypillar: O:
Rednaxela: with VBA, Mednafen, and zsnes, you're basically covered for most things
Tazzypillar: PCSX also hated me, but I think QJoyPad will solve that problem
ryan22: yes. and if you have audio trobules, just turf pulseaudio and itll fix everything
Tazzypillar: turf?
Rednaxela: i.e. ditch
Rednaxela: i.e. do away with
Tazzypillar: ah
Tazzypillar: ;W; Can't, tragically
Tazzypillar: I use pulseaudio for projectM
Rednaxela: Heh
Rednaxela: IMO, sound servers are a waste of time
Tazzypillar: They are
Tazzypillar: but they are a waste of time that is gorgeous
Rednaxela: Because almost everything uses native alsa these days, and most systems have hardware mixing, and even on systems that don't it's *trivial* to set up ALSA software mixing
Rednaxela: So...
ryan22: im going to be looking into OSS4. it has per-application volume control and works existing code
ryan22: Tazzypillar: ProjectM works fine with Jack
ryan22: so go ahead and ditch pulse :P
Rednaxela: Jack is the one audio server I've seen that looks credibly useful, due to it's low latency feature fancies
ryan22: it can be a bitch to set up though
Tazzypillar: How do i made jack
Tazzypillar: I don't even have jack /installed/
ryan22: what distro?
Tazzypillar: i'm sorry if I sound super nooby about all this(i am super nooby about all this)
Tazzypillar: Linux Mint
Tazzypillar: if you haven't heard of it, it's an ubuntu derivative
ryan22: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=806730
ryan22: theres how to install jack
Tazzypillar: O: thanks
Tazzypillar: And it doesn't interfere at all with how my hardware relates to my sound?
Tazzypillar: Like with my microphone and stuff. Alsa handles all of that?
ryan22: dont know
ryan22: here's how to remove pulse: http://ubuntu-ky.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8284273&postcount=4
Tazzypillar: o:
ryan22: i doubt it would
ryan22: pulseaudio actually just uses alsa as a backend
ryan22: be careful though. canonical has made pulseaudio a dependency of everything in lucid, so i would only remove it on your own if you have problems
ryan22: those istructions do work 100% in karmic though, i just havent tried them on lucid
Tazzypillar: Alright
Tazzypillar: I'll see if I can make things work right any other wya
Tazzypillar: way*
Tazzypillar: if not i guess pulse has to go :U
Tazzypillar: thanks for all your help~ c:
ryan22: no rpob ;)
eto: hello i just found out some of your artucles about linux steam client is this true?
Galaxy|: eto: they pulled the client from public view about 2 weeks ago so it remains to be said what it is or if its ever going to see the light of day
Galaxy|: if it turns out to be true it might just be the next best thing since sliced bread
eto: Galaxy| how high do you thing are the chances it might happen?
Galaxy|: Galaxy|: given Valve's random behavior in this department its hard to speculate
Galaxy|: and those who usually do end up wrong
eto: understood
Galaxy|: I think they do it on purpose
Galaxy|: to blow people out of the water
Rednaxela: I suspect steam for linux will come eventually... the question is... how warped Valve Time will be
ryan22: i think the frameworks will have to mature a bit
ryan22: right now the sound apis are kinda horrible
ryan22: pulseaudio is pretty unreliable nad is not optimised for low latency (it is instead optimized for low pwer use)
ryan22: ALSA is a pain to program for as it is a ugly mix of high and low level code
ryan22: audio is going to be a huge problem for game development on linux and there currently isnt much being done to solve it
Rednaxela: I kind of wish there would be a single common API for sound servers and sound-providing APIs to use
Rednaxela: in the same way that OGL is a relatively standardized API
ryan22: i really like OSS4 as its very low and simple and is standard among unixes
ryan22: that means it could be very easily abstracted into a high level wrapper, and not have the problems of pulse and alsa
Rednaxela: Ah, you mean a higher level api that is like OSS4's api but can be backed on other things?
ryan22: the reason why pulse is so unrealible is because it only supports 70% of alsa's functions. it turns out almost all games depend on the other 30%
ryan22: higher level as in uses OSS4 but is made easy to develop for and can be ported to other oss
ryan22: basically pulse but done right and keep simple
ryan22: *kept
Rednaxela: Heh
ryan22: they got to fancy with pulse and it became a giant kitchen sink
Rednaxela: My issue with pulseaudio (and ESD, and so on), is that to me it seems completely unnecessary to have that additional layer. Perhaps a common API wrapper, but not a silly daemon
ryan22: it doesnt help thats it the pet project of the maintainers in a lot of distros, and theyve spent 2 years deving it for fun and they dont want to give it up
ryan22: ya this would be more of a api wrapper than a service
Rednaxela: Yeah
Rednaxela: I was dismayed when I found out about pulseaudio's adoption in ubuntu
Rednaxela: Since, for me anyway, I've always had the best luck with pure ALSA
ryan22: here's a good write up by one of pulse's devs on why pulse is taking the direction its taking
ryan22: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-May/011343.html
Rednaxela: And Ubuntu has an awful lot of clout in terms of what sort of configurations people will support
ryan22: which is horrific cuz ubuntu does very little actual development
ryan22: they backport from debian and thats about it and talk very little to the outside world
ryan22: they are very focus on getting linux organized and getting a community behind it to the point that they get very little done
ryan22: its endless roadmaps, committees and meetings
Rednaxela: Gah, that mailing list post makes me cringe
Rednaxela: It seems so silly... the amount of apparently required effort to fix kernel drivers, to support the odd power saving mode of operation of pulseaudio =\
ryan22: as it should, the devs are going in the wrong direction, expecting everyone else to accomedate them
Rednaxela: Yeah
ryan22: they are in a bubble :p
Rednaxela: From a pure "lets's save power" perspective it seems like the optimal direction, but it seems to fail to consider anything else
ryan22: and the funny thing is that "saving power" just leads to you hearing randoming popping noise when your computer is idling on ubuntu
ryan22: as they are continuely turning off the chip
Rednaxela: Haha
ryan22: im not even sure how much pwer sound even takes up. the hd, cpu and wifi are the biggest culprits of power comsuption
Rednaxela: Yeah
ryan22: in any case, having a networkable sound server has its benefits
Rednaxela: I'm all for something that saves power, but it seems to me that Pulseaudio is the wrong layer to accomplish that in, rather the very low level (i.e. ALSA, OSS4) is the layer to accomplish that in
Rednaxela: Far less hacks that way
Rednaxela: and far less broken
ryan22: but the implementation of pulseaudio just sucks cuz alsa is so messy
ryan22: if you build a house on shaken foundation, it will shift and crack
Galaxy|: the screen in most laptops takes more power than the CPUs now adays
Galaxy|: its kind of sad really
Rednaxela: ryan22: Well, worse than that, they seem to be building the house, without taking the foundation OR future contents into much consideration
Rednaxela: Hah, yeah
Rednaxela: Actually, during screen brightness from full to half, cuts my laptop's power consumption in half
Rednaxela: (Thus why I'm looking forward to OLED displays, and not just the OLED backlighted kind)
ryan22: they are also making pulse a dependency of everything too
ryan22: gnome-media installs pulseaudio on karmic and lucid
Rednaxela: Yeah, that's what bothers me most about Ubuntu's adoption of it: it's in such a manner that it gives no choice
ryan22: gnome-setting-daemon has pulseaudio as a dependency on lucid because they wanted ambitent sounds on the log-in screen
Rednaxela: And I'm thinking to myself, shouldn't gnome-media use gstreamer or something instead of pulseaudio?
ryan22: it does
ryan22: but the voume control in ubuntu depends on pulse
Rednaxela: . . . sigh
Rednaxela: sigh sigh sigh
ryan22: and if you compile it w/o pulse support, you get no volume control
ryan22: :p
Rednaxela: http://www.gstreamer.net/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-base-plugins/html/gst-plugins-base-plugins-volume.html
Rednaxela: gstreamer HAS apis pertaining to volume
ryan22: xfce is a bit better as you can select what api you use
Rednaxela: =\
ryan22: but ubuntu wanted a volume control with per-app controls in ubuntu
ryan22: so they kind of hard coded it
Rednaxela: Bleh
ryan22: its a mess
Rednaxela: So the pulseaudio devs are stuck in a bubble, and the ubuntu devs are blindfolded and have earplugs on
ryan22: and its mostly cuz ubuntu has very little direction
Rednaxela: Heh, what little direction it seems to have, is in the wrong direction as far as sound goes
Azerthoth|D: ubuntu devs have lots of direction "Make it Mac"
ryan22: profitiablity is not a concern for shuttleworth has he already has buckets of cash
ryan22: so making it efficient or even making it work is 2nd priority to having pretty menus :p
ryan22: its become his toy
Azerthoth|D: oops did I forget sarcasm tags again?
ryan22: most of the people invloved with ubuntu too arent even devs
ryan22: the leader of the xubuntu project cant code a bash script
ryan22: they have one coder
ryan22: ^xubuntu
ryan22: its all "community" and organizing but very little actually coding...
ryan22: eh
ryan22: idk i think in order for the linux desktop to take off it need to better and easier to use that both the mac and windows
ryan22: it needs to be a paradigm shift. emulating windows or mac is going to get it nowhere
Rednaxela: Agreed ryan22
Rednaxela: and... I think in it's early days, Ubuntu innovated notably in that front actually
Rednaxela: but these days.... it's lost that
ryan22: it did
ryan22: jockey and update manger are great utilites
ryan22: same with ubiquity and the netinstaler
Rednaxela: The ease of systemwide software updates in linux distributions in general is one major reasons I'll probably never consider using windows for my main system
ryan22: ubuntu has brought linux a great way forward. but it is starting stall
Rednaxela: (more so with rolling release distributions like Arch and Gentoo than others though)
Rednaxela: Yeah, for sure
ryan22: apt-get is a thing of beauty
ryan22: i think the prob is these end-user distros are focusing too much on being free and easy-to-use
ryan22: those things are great but they are a means to an end
Rednaxela: Well, I think if Steam comes to Linux that would go a long way, haha
Rednaxela: laughs
ryan22: desktop linux needs a purpose and a killer app like apache and mysql
Rednaxela: Yeah
ryan22: and we need to stop marketing it as free
Rednaxela: To me, the package mangers are the biggest killer app
Rednaxela: but for many people, they won't see that as being the case
ryan22: server linux didnt tke over cuz it free, it took over cuz it it was easily to maintain and customible
Rednaxela: instead being of the "why update?" mentality
ryan22: eh it just has to phrased in the right why
ryan22: never having to go to a website to download a program, your system updating itself in 3 clicks
Rednaxela: Yeah, but I can see a lot of windows users who might try it thinking "Eh? Wht's it bugging me to update so much!"
Rednaxela: Yeah, that is nice
ryan22: break up the updates in weekly capsules
ryan22: so theres a testing window and the users arent continuely bothered
DonScott: freedom is actually a better word to describe it than free.
Rednaxela: Yeah, that's a good idea Ryan
Rednaxela: Also, use rolling releases on more mainstream distros >_>
Rednaxela: because, seriously, major version updates in ubuntu are irritating
Rednaxela: and unnecessary to the design of a distro
ryan22: well i called for a change in the ubuntu dvelopment a while ago
ryan22: but i was called a loon as "devs cant package their own software"
ryan22: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-May/011310.html
ryan22: the devs in the current distros want to maintain but i dont think that is economically possible if desktop linux takes off
ryan22: *everything
ryan22: the app store has 100,000 apps. theres no way any single organisation can bug test that much code
ryan22: i think the best option is to switch to doing just basic testing for non-default apps (does it install, open and not crash) and add them to a repo to be pushed to every user after a week
ryan22: make "releases" a specification to build packages towards and freeze the code os each year
ryan22: *core
Rednaxela: Eh
ryan22: oh well, ive obviously thought about this too much
Rednaxela: Every year seems slightly too me anyway
ryan22: well packages could be continued to be built for each release for years
Rednaxela: As someone who has used rolling-release distros for many years, I don't really see much of a need for "releases" even in the sense you state
ryan22: it would be very similar to the release system of windows and mac os x
Rednaxela: I would say that only default settings should be frozen in such a way, don't need builds locked between them
ryan22: the problem with pure rolling release system is that they reuire too much testing. with the core libraries in flux, each application has to be made sure that it works with the current libraries
ryan22: it doesn;t scale all that well either. i think a compromise between the two systems is best
Rednaxela: Well, generally libraries with conflicting versions can be installed in parallel if necessary. For example if some things use one version of libjpeg, and others use another version, having both at once is no issue. In Gentoo the concept is formalized as "slotted versions" or something if I remember right
ryan22: that parallelization costs you big time in memeory use
ryan22: its why windows and mac os x take up so much memory
Rednaxela: considering how few things ever need it, I'd say not so much
ryan22: they can have up to 5 versions of each library in memory
Rednaxela: in windows and mac os x, that's done for even minor revisions of libraries
Rednaxela: what I mean is only major version changes that would intentionally break things
Rednaxela: And really, I think libraries breaking forward compatibility is really very very rare
ryan22: even using 64-bit linux leads to about a doubling in memory due to needing both the 32-bit and 64-bit libraries
Rednaxela: Only seen it occur a couple of times really
Rednaxela: Well yes, but the 64-bit scenario is a whole other fiasco, heh
ryan22: that year long window could lead to more ambitious updates to the libraries as well
ryan22: as they wont have to maintain binary compatibility with each other, devs could more risks for their ideas and have more time to test them out
ryan22: *take
ryan22: no pulseaudios :p
Rednaxela: Heh, maybe
Rednaxela: How broadly are you defining the "core" you'd want to see frozen periodically?
Rednaxela: (i.e. would it for example include GTK?)
ryan22: the kernel, userland, and x
ryan22: the other libraries could be updated in periodic minor updates that maintain binary compatibility
Rednaxela: Heh
ryan22: but would be separate from the application update mechanism
ryan22: more like service packs
Rednaxela: I just have to say this: Even though I run Arch with testing repos enabled even, I've only once ever run into a library breaking compatibility in an ungraceful way (was libjpeg)
Rednaxela: shrugs
ryan22: theres a lot of compliation involved with updating these libraries though on a rolling release distro that has to be avoided
ryan22: pure rolling system doesnt work well with binary systems
ryan22: and mass market desktop linux would have to be binary due to compliation time issues
Rednaxela: With that attitude, one would think Arch would never ever work and be broken all the time :)
Rednaxela: Yet... I've had much less breakage when updating than with Ubuntu
ryan22: well im looking more at gentoo
ryan22: ;)
ryan22: and debian unstable
ryan22: arch is proably the only rooling release ive seen done right
ryan22: where the core os is throughlly tested before it is pushed
Rednaxela: When I was on Gentoo I started having this huge "USE Flag" list that annoyed me to no end... but with Arch... I found that things worked really well out of the box :)
Rednaxela: Yeah, and actually, even if you run arch-testing instead of stable arch, it's still very stable in my experience
Rednaxela: Only potential difficulty is you'll hit a libjpeg roadbump a little earlier than everyone else
Rednaxela: Well, there was one time I ran into a badly broken intel video driver and kernel version
ryan-mini__: just a little more formalized
Rednaxela: but that got pushed out of testing too and I just hit it earlier than I would have otherwise
ryan-mini__: the radeon drivers are a bit of a pain in terms of needing specifically kernels
Rednaxela: Ah
ryan22_: and mesa and x server for that manner
ryan22_: alsa is pretty kernel independent
Rednaxela: (The badly broken video I mean is... kernel panic when pulling out of powersaving, or when some ogl programs run)
Rednaxela: Ah yeah
ryan22: there arent a lot of beenefits though to continously updating the kernel and x server
Rednaxela: Well, I find that every so often the intel driver gets a big performance boost
ryan22: and the end user can not be expected to upgrade x server as it requires you to be in the CLI interface, or bad things happen
ryan22: wel thats cuz the intel guys are the main ppl writing the kernel DRM
Rednaxela: Mhmm
ryan22: theres not really much difference if you use a nvidia card or the flgrx driver
ryan22: in fact the fglrx driver half the time doesnt even work with the latest kernel or x server :p
Rednaxela: laughs
Rednaxela: so it breaks when *either* upgrades? Sheesh
ryan22: man the forum posts on phoronix are awlful
Rednaxela: Generally lower levels should keep backwards compatibility
ryan22: ubuntu had to include a prerelease version of fglrx so it was compatible with the x server in lucid
ryan22: but i think a tri-annual upgrade sould be enough for the desktop environment and its libraries, as theya rent updated wholescale ass that often anyways
ryan22: *all
Rednaxela: Hm I suppose
ryan22: really only applications need to be continously upgraded
ryan22: different packages have different needs and implications i guess
ryan22: so they should be tested differently
Rednaxela: Well yes
Rednaxela: What makes me depressed though is how Ubuntu looks politically unwilling to innovate these days, and the political clout it holds is so high... =\
Rednaxela: For example, no matter how much I'd love to see a a mainstream distro with a balance like you describe, I just don't see there as being much chance of success... In part due to how well Ubuntu is at taking most potential new users
ryan22: well what im trying to do is give is ive ubuntu a purpose
ryan22: and i think media and social networking is key
ryan22: because those arent inegrated well into any desktop os
ryan22: theres ptential there that has to be taken advantage of
ryan22: ubuntu has idological sparkle that could easily overrided with function and purpose ;)
Rednaxela: Yeah.... well... I don't think Ubuntu's internal politics will lend itself well to being convinced to innovate and gain purpose
Rednaxela: not unless Shuttleworth decrees it anyway
DonScott: what are ubuntu's internal politics ?
Rednaxela: Bureaucracy? :)
ryan22: ubuntu hates me with a passion
DonScott: why ?
ryan22: im a leecher who has not contributed to their project
ryan22: and made my own distrubtuioon from their code
ryan22: maybe hate me with a pasion is a strong word
ryan22: but the people on the mailing dont really like me :p
Azerthoth|D: ah yes the old 'do as I say not as I do" standard
ryan22: made you i have made a few mistakes
ryan22: the post i put on the mailing list about chromium was one of them, i really should have researched srware iron more beofe i posted that
ryan22: i can be a bit... flamboyant too when writing on online because i dont want to be ignored
ryan22: and its really easy for a bureaucracy to ignore you :P
Sonic1: Valve still keeping you guys busy with new client outings?