wao: ttp://www.zive.sk/cooler-master-uviedol-pc-skrinku-haf-x-pre-narocnych/sc-4-a-288402/default.aspx
wao: ff
RambJoe: whats the new fedora like
mastertheknife: big diaster inside the 2.6.35 kernel?
meGenius: what is it??
mastertheknife: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2635_fail&num=1
mastertheknife: this is nothing new though
mastertheknife: the kernel becomes more and more bloated over the years
mastertheknife: In the past when computers were slower, more efforts were made on optimizing the kernel
mastertheknife: nowdays i doubt anyone bothers profiling and optimizing the kernel code
meGenius: do that if you can :P
mastertheknife: I can't
meGenius: linus wants something new
mastertheknife: meGenius: what does he want?
meGenius: i doubt he is planning for linux3
mastertheknife: meGenius: how do you know all this?
meGenius: i read his blogs on linux.com
mastertheknife: I think that linus is too old and too busy now to care about linux's furture
mastertheknife: I mean, he's doing it since 1991
mastertheknife: thats almost 20 years soon\
meGenius: it's only 19y
meGenius: so, what??
mastertheknife: he has a family
meGenius: he is not writing all the codes himself
meGenius: he just plan & design
meGenius: & contribute with some codes
mastertheknife: Yeah i know that
meGenius: so??
mastertheknife: he usually decides what will be merged and whats not
meGenius: he is not old :P
mastertheknife: but i dont know.. maybe you are right, maybe he lost interest
Modplan: it's too much code to possibly review bu himself
meGenius: if you see his last blog about the new kernel
Modplan: when he decides what gets merged much of it is in good faith
mastertheknife: I'm always lagging when it comes to kernels, i'm far away from 2.6.35
Daekdroom: I wonder if those regressions will make the release delay.
meGenius: you'll understand that the new kernel disappointed him
Modplan: He's talked previosuly about how it's a web of trust
mastertheknife: i just updated to 2.6.32-gentoo-r7 from 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 few weeks ago
mastertheknife: meGenius: i'll check out the blog thanks :)
Kano: mastertheknife: go to 2.6.34-ck1
mastertheknife: Kano: thats from gentoo-sources?
meGenius: ;)
Kano: mastertheknife: i dont use gentoo
mastertheknife: Kano: oh
Kano: Host/Kernel/OS "Kanotix" running Linux 2.6.34-4-generic i686 [ Kanotix Excalibur 20090506-17:27 ]
CME: just had much trouble with kernel 2.6.33-ck
Kano: CPU Info (1) Intel Core2 Duo E8400 @ clocked at [ 2999.000 MHz ]
Kano: (2) Intel Core2 Duo E8400 @ clocked at [ 1999.000 MHz ]
Kano: Videocard nVidia GT200 [GeForce GT 220] X.Org 1.4.2 [ 1920x1200 @60hz ]
Kano: Processes 171 | Uptime 3:17 | Memory 469.4/1977.1MB | HDD Size 1000GB (95%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce GT 220/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 3.3.0 NVIDIA 256.25 | Client Konversation 1.1 | Infobash v2.67.1
meGenius: SPAMMER!!!
mastertheknife: 2.6.33 is not stable here on x86-64 gentoo i think
meGenius: /kick Kano :P
mastertheknife: its masked
Kano: that kernel is patched with http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/ck/patches/2.6/2.6.34/2.6.34-ck1/patch-2.6.34-ck1.bz2
mastertheknife: what does that patch do?
Kano: includes bfs
Kano: saidly pts does not check for bfs, but it is simple
CME: bfs/the ck patches did crazy shit here on my quadcore cpu :/
CME: it moved every application very fast through every core
Kano: [ -f /proc/sys/kernel/rr_interval -a -f /proc/sys/kernel/iso_cpu ] && echo BFS
Kano: CME: and? it is about 5% faster when you compile
CME: it resulted in bad micro stuttering in mplayer for me
Kano: no
CME: and also i had no difference in compiling speed :| (i compiled wine)
Kano: i watch lots of movies, via vaapi however
CME: CPU decode here
CME: and with HD videos this was really bad
Kano: not needed here ;)
CME: pff :P
Kano: i can compile a kernel while watching
CME: with CFS, dito
Kano: but it does not affect speed ;)
Kano: CME: which vga card?
CME: geforce 7800gtx
Kano: ok, without vdpau
Kano: maybe get a gtx 465
CME: well, the 7800gtx is fast enough for the most things i do :) (portal, bioshock etc works just fine in wine)
Kano: well the 465 is just a tiny bit faster than a gtx 275
Kano: but opengl4 of course
Kano: maybe a bit too expensive for that...
Kano: 470 is faster
CME: real 5m13.567s <-- compiling wine, now i try it with a video running on the tv :o (just a PAL 576p video, mpeg4asp)
Kano: you can forget pal
Kano: how about bluray
CME: ok, found some bluray clip :)
meGenius: no2bd
CME: CPU decoding ofcourse
meGenius: the free community is against the drm-contents :P
Kano: well i have got even a bd-r since last week ;)
CME: video is smooth and wine compiles
JEEB: bd is the only way to get 40mbps or so H.264 video >_>
JEEB: at least atm
JEEB: I'm not really seeing the companies going for the same bitrates when they'll start publishing on the web
Kano: i would prefer a bit lower bitrate that it does not exceed 24 gb ;)
JEEB: lol
kurros: or just trancode an other video into that size and bitrate.
JEEB: x264 is quite good at compression, so if you play around it you should get a nice-sized result :3
CME: gnah, forgot the time before make...
Kano: ccache active?
CME: nope
Kano: can help much
JEEB: anyways, I hate the DRM business in Blu-ray -- but since I know that everything's getting raped I just want to select the "best" alternative >_>
Kano: there are 2 tool to get rid of drm ;)
JEEB: Yeahe
CME: Kano, but i wan't to test how long it takes to compile wine with a HD video next to it :x
JEEB: Anyways, I'm one of those people who see through something, and then fix stuff that was done badly during mastering and then re-encoding the thing as "human-eye visually lossless" >_>
Sleepy_Coder: can't seem to find anything about 2.6.35 from Linus
Sleepy_Coder: (15:15:16) < meGenius> if you see his last blog about the new kernel <-- linky
Kano: Sleepy_Coder: correct, it is still 34-gitXX
Sleepy_Coder: eh?
CME: real 5m13.567s and real 6m37.323s with hd video running next to it, decoding in 2 threads
Kano: must be low bitrate
Kano: do you use debian or ubuntu
CME: debian
Sleepy_Coder: traitor :p
Kano: CME: try my kernel to compare (based on ubuntu maverick git + some tuning)
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/excalibur/linux-2.6.34-generic/
Kano: install all 3 debs with dpkg -i *.deb
Kano: thats the best way
Sleepy_Coder: wonders what the latest release of KDE in Kanotix is
Kano: 2 variants
Kano: 3.5.10
Kano: or 4.3.x
CME: k, i will try it, but not now :)
Sleepy_Coder: okey dokie, latest blog posting mentioned only 3.5
Kano: i like speed -> i use 3.5
Kano: there is debian-desktop which has backports
Sleepy_Coder: I don't use KDE, GNOME, XFCE, *box, Compiz-Fusion, ...
Kano: kde 3 is really fast, no composite slowdown
Sleepy_Coder: Can't you disable compositing in KDE4?
meGenius: it's not KDE's problem that your computer is old ;)
Daekdroom: It's KDE's problem if it's bloated
meGenius: Sleepy_Coder: he can, but KDE3 guys don't mention that :P
Kano: Sleepy_Coder: sure i can enable the kde classic menu too, i do not need those stupid plasmoids too
Sleepy_Coder: doesn't like the look of Qt and doesn't enjoy the experience KDE4 offers anymore (reminds me of Mac OS X, which is definitely pristine but I'm keyboard-driven and minimal)
meGenius: Daekdroom: i saw an if
Daekdroom: meGenius, Yeah. I'm not sure wether it is or not
Daekdroom: meGenius, the criteria is yours.
mastertheknife: I moved from 3.5.10 to KDE 4.3.5 1-2 months ago, can't look back now
mastertheknife: looking forward to 4.4 and 4.5
Sleepy_Coder: meGenius: Can you link to me the post Linus gave about 2.6.35? I'm curious about what went wrong
meGenius: just a minute!
Sleepy_Coder: I would probably try Debian again. I haven't touched it since....GNOME 2.6.12? :S
Sleepy_Coder: Debian was always rock solid, I just did not like apt at all.
Sleepy_Coder: Or all the helper scripts (/usr/bin/update-*) which at the time I viewed as a shield between me and actually learning something
Sleepy_Coder: The main thing was finding it difficult to get the required dev libs for some project to build something else, I just did not have a handle on apt-cache search apparently
meGenius: Sleepy_Coder: i just can't find it
Sleepy_Coder: You have been demoted to Underline, Level 0.14
Sleepy_Coder: TO THE CORNER OF SHAME WITH YOU
meGenius: i think you can find what he says in kernel.org maillist
Sleepy_Coder: hmm.
meGenius: :D
Sleepy_Coder: http://lkml.org/hot.xml Think I found something.
Sleepy_Coder: not from him though.
MmikeDOMA: Sleepy_Coder, you havent-tried apt-get build-dep or apt-file ?
Sleepy_Coder: nope
MmikeDOMA: Those are life savers
Sleepy_Coder: shall have to set up a VM :-)
MmikeDOMA: For instance, building something fails with: can't find file libsomething.h. You do apt-file search libsomething.h, and it will tell you packages with that file
MmikeDOMA: or, you want to build newest version of postgres. first you do apt-get build-dep postgres, so apt will get all the dependencies needed to build postgres.
MmikeDOMA: When I tried debian, I was never satisfied with anything else.
Sleepy_Coder: found it
Sleepy_Coder: meGenius: http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/4/12/385
Sleepy_Coder: MmikeDOMA: Ooh good to know, thanks :o
meGenius: i don't think that this is what i read
Sleepy_Coder: er, I'm an idiot.
Sleepy_Coder: It's from April, all I read was huge regression :p
meGenius: but, it actually shows you a part of linus vision
meGenius: yeah! right :D
meGenius: anyway, i have some work
meGenius: don't bother me anymore :P
Sleepy_Coder: hahah
NigeyUK: afternooooooooon
mastertheknife: hey nigey :)
mastertheknife: Any europeans here?
mastertheknife: Is it true that europeans don't give a tip unless they feel really sorry for you and want to help you?
Nevtus: Europe isn't one country or people, different countries behave differently
JEEB: ^this
mastertheknife: Well okay, how about british people?
JEEB: also, while I was in America I just didn't know the culture. I'm used to people getting legally paid and the price of the food containing everything I have to pay >_>
JEEB: I did pay where I had time and place to ask someone how much to pay
JEEB: But bleh, otherwise I just talked with an accent and pretended everything was good
mastertheknife: hehe
mastertheknife: I work as a waiter in weddings sometimes. we get normal pay (pretty much minimum pay) but we usually receive tips so its not too bad, but yesterday almost all people were british, and we waiters and waitresses talked and apparently no one received a tip and then someone told us british people and probably also european people are not used to give tips
Ivanovic: yes, tips in most european countries are not this high since normal salaries are fine
Ivanovic: just some basic rounding and that's normally it
Ivanovic: (so if there is a tip it is normally <5% of the bill)
JEEB: some European countries have a tipping culture
JEEB: others don't
Modplan: british people are very used to giving tips
Modplan: they were just cheap arseholes
NigeyUK: ffs
NigeyUK: ETQW is pissing me off now
mastertheknife: Israeli people are used very used to giving tips, anywhere from $10 to $200
kurros: I leave $200 tips for my lunch at mcdonalds all the time
NigeyUK: lol
NigeyUK: hey mastertheknife :)
mastertheknife: hey Nigey
JEEB: AFAIK Japan doesn't have a culture of tipping either, although you might get a "service charge" in certain places added to your end price (clearly written on paper)
JEEB: of course, such places are not such that a usual person walks into >_>
Daekdroom: What kind of places are they? o.o
JEEB: host clubs, private bars, some other semi-classy or classy places
Ivanovic: JEEB: from my experience it is not uncommon in asia that prices are listed as XYZ$ ++
Ivanovic: (so that they are without taxes and without service charge)
JEEB: dunno, in Japan the usual thing is that the end prices contain tax -- service charges aren't usually charged
Daekdroom: such thing is frowned upon in my country, and can get you a fine..
JEEB: 100 yen stores and such have "100 yen" etc. written in big letters, but usually there's a text under it (105 yen with tax) as that's what the law says what has to be done. Of course, on the final listing the listed prices contain the tax and in most cases tax and price are even both shown >_>
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I see you haven't published the evidence article
NigeyUK: not yet, ive been snowed under with some astronomy work :(
mastertheknife: heh :) i was also very busy lately.. life :P
mastertheknife: There is still nothing from Valve about a linux client, i hope they won't forget us linux users...
NigeyUK: well... the linux client maybe unaccessible from their site, but im betting the whole bins folder has been updated, if the osx files are anything to go by.
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, you think the about page would be better used as the history of what we do and dont know, instead of an article outlining the history?
Rednaxela: Hm, that's funny. Last night, among various dreams, there was a moment where the steam_client_linux URL got unblocked
oNNy: ;D
Rednaxela: The annoying things that dreams do... :P
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: no idea man
NigeyUK: redeeman, there is a way around it
NigeyUK: spoof the ip to an internal valve ip
NigeyUK: but good luck finding their internal ip addresses lol
NigeyUK: oops Rednaxela
NigeyUK: *
Rednaxela: NigeyUK: Haha, spoofing an internal IP wouldn't help unless you could tap incoming data to the IP you're spoofing :P
NigeyUK: good point
Rednaxela: And... if you could tap data in their internal network... one probably wouldn't need to spoof :P
NigeyUK: shh im dreaming to .. lol
asraniel: the last guys that hacked valve didn't have that much fun afterwards if i remember right (those that stole the HL2 source code)
NigeyUK: yeah there's also the slight illegality of it .. lol
mastertheknife: maybe the manifest isn't ip restricted
MPX: Yeah that would be smart
mastertheknife: maybe its a php scrilt expecting parameters
MPX: I remember right before HL2 was "supposed to come out"
mastertheknife: or maybe its a php script that checks for your IP
MPX: Somebody downloaded the build off gabes computer
mastertheknife: script*
MPX: Guess what happened next :D
MPX: It took another two years before it got out and Gabe blamed it on the hacker :D So go ahead and do that :p
asraniel: lol, that HL2 version back then was sooo not ready anyway
MPX: Doesnt matter
MPX: Only thing valve needs is an excuse
NigeyUK: aye, it was def a very early build
MPX: Besides, the build that was there, was supposedly a very old build
MPX: And not the most recent one...but then again, all they need is an excuse apparently
MPX: Not trying to bust your balls.... :)
NigeyUK: lol no worries, it was only mentioned in jest, i think theyll open it back up to the public in a few weeks as they did before.
giselher: Howto to run TF2 under Mac OSX :) http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1274161
giselher: It looks like CS:S and TF2 are the next Valve games to be released for OSX
DonScott: probably
Ivanovic: was expected this way anyway
Ivanovic: from the orange box only dod:s and hl2 dm are missing then, right?
Ivanovic: so once those are out, too, it is time for the linux release
DonScott: hpefully
DonScott: err
DonScott: hopefully
Ivanovic: something like mid june might be possible
giselher: After a Steam update that enables support for case-sensitive filesystems it should be obvious they will support linux too :)
DonScott: the new linux kernel might scare them off though unless it's fixed.
Ivanovic: regarding the thread in the forums the issue was already fixe
Ivanovic: d
giselher: source or it isn't true
Rednaxela: mid june sounds much to optimistic to me
Rednaxela: You forget what Valve Time is like
Ivanovic: giselher: like i said, the forum thread about the kernel mentions the thread on the lkml list
Rednaxela: (For those unfamiliar: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time )
Ivanovic: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24038&page=6
DonScott: valve time is a double edged sword.
DonScott: as in they prefer quality over deadlines most of the time.
Ivanovic: DonScott: IMO the only sane way
DonScott: they might announce that they are working on the linux client officially in June though.
DonScott: after all they are going to be at E3
DonScott: and linux does need publicity.
DonScott: that would be a good spot to do it at.
DonScott: I also expect HL3 to be announced there and Portal 2
Rednaxela: Not so much I'd say. E3 is likely not attended by that many that care about linux I'd think
Rednaxela: The only hope at all that it would get mentioned, would be hinted at in brief talk about cross-platform-ness
DonScott: i think linux just needs better marketing......the passive aggressive approach doesn't work all that well.
Rednaxela: Agreed, but I doubt steam is going to risk making a big announcement to an audience that isn't well-targeted to the content of the announcement
Rednaxela: Oh wow, just looked at the article about the performance drop in the 2.6.35 benchmarks
Rednaxela: pretty harsh dip, but.... article is too sensationalist
DonScott: yeah....but still.
DonScott: it doesn't bode well if it's not fixed.
Ivanovic: IIRC such a regression is *normal* and happens every now and then
Ivanovic: since so far those are just git snapshots, no rc or anything there is not too much of a problem
Rednaxela: Yeah
Rednaxela: Now, if there was a final release with those regressions, then it would be worth calling a disaster
Rednaxela: and if it was in a RC, it would be a 'bad sign'
Rednaxela: but as it stands... it seems silly to be reporting on it rather than trying to narrow down than quietly trying to help or even quietly doing nothing
DonScott: anyone else play Warsaw and not have openal load ?
mastertheknife: When in June is the E3?
mastertheknife: Ah it seems 15th-17th june
mastertheknife: that might be the date for linux announcement
mastertheknife: lets hope
DonScott: http://www.e3expo.com/
Rednaxela: thinks getting hopes up for E3 really is getting hopes too high
Azalyn: i don't even care anymore. i'm pissed at valve.
Azalyn: i'm convinced now that they are waiting only to hype up the mac.
mastertheknife: The mac is such a bad gaming platform, imo they shouldnt have bothered with it
mastertheknife: poor drivers, lack of opengl support, non-replaceable hardware
Azalyn: just so that jobs can go on stage and brag about steam on mac. ugh
Azalyn: makes me furious
mastertheknife: Azalyn: I hope that wont be the case
Azalyn: i mean i expect this bullshit from jobs, but what makes me angry is the thought of valve actually *playing along*
Azalyn: specifically gabe newell, who refers to the mac as an "open platform"
Azalyn: rolls eyes
mastertheknife: Thinks windows is much more open than OS X
christian_lappy: yeah, thats the biggest lie ever
christian_lappy: *it is*
mastertheknife: maybe it was a hint towards linux
christian_lappy: mac is a drm monster
christian_lappy: mhhh
christian_lappy: still damn silence about that
mastertheknife: I have an iPhone, its bluetooth can't send\receive files.. drm at its best
christian_lappy: yup
Azalyn: they're both roughly equivalent, but mac also keeps the hardware relatively closed up. microsoft probably would do the same but they have no control over hardware vendors.
Azalyn: in terms of software they are both total assholes.
christian_lappy: if apple would hav the ms marketshare drm would be EVERYWHERE
christian_lappy: hehe..its a wonder that you dont have to ask jobs whom you are allowed to call with your iphone ;-)
Azalyn: microsoft has pushed drm too though. microsoft in fact is the main reason why we have no opensource uvd support in the ati cards.
christian_lappy: ms and apple can go hand in hand
christian_lappy: they both *hate* opensource it seems
Azalyn: see, microsoft's WHQL requirements state that you have to support the encrypted content path in your windows drivers.
Azalyn: and that you need to do everything in your power to prevent reverse engineering of the DRM stuff
christian_lappy: ouchy
christian_lappy: the problem is that ms and apple both hate opensource/linux much more than they are hating each other
Azalyn: the UVD component in radeon cards which accelerates video decoding *also* handles various cryptographic shit as i understand. and the same is probably true for purevideo on nvidia.
christian_lappy: possible
Azalyn: so telling the community how to make that work..
Azalyn: will also allow hackers to circumvent the encrypted content path on windows
Azalyn: so think about that for a second, microsoft's newer (since vista) whql requirements actually encourage vendors to keep their drivers and documentation closed.
Azalyn: as if the situation wasn't bad enough already...
Azalyn: hardware vendors already didn't want to co-operate with the opensource community, and now microsoft has made it even worse.
Azalyn: at this point it looks like we'll have to just keep relying on reverse engineering.
Azalyn: and hopefully companies like amd who will keep supporting us despite the FUD.
Azalyn: as for ms/apple hating opensource more than eachother... well, maybe, maybe not.
Azalyn: awhile back microsoft was saying how linux was a bigger threat to them than apple.
MPX: Well
Azalyn: to me, that actually is a compliment.
MPX: Technically it still is.
MPX: You can stop closed source, but you can't group together and close open source
Azalyn: i mean, microsoft totally dissed apple by saying that.
Azalyn: i'm pretty sure jobs blew a fuse when he read that.
MPX: It's not because linux is big
Azalyn: because he's always been gates' rival in the old days. and now microsoft is just dismissing them as unthreatening.
MPX: Really, it's because you can't shoot down something that's not allowed to shoot down
MPX: Well, that's not what he said
Azalyn: it's implied.
MPX: Apple is still a big threat to MS
Azalyn: no, they really aren't.
MPX: It's just that since Apple is not opensource, apple can be stopped
MPX: Linux can't be stopped
Azalyn: yes, i know that.
MPX: Yeah so, he didn't imply no such thing
MPX: He implied just so
DonScott: isn't Apple worth more now in stock price or something ?
Azalyn: even so, i disagree that apple is a threat. apple has their media distribution business. and their mac 'niche', but yeah.
MPX: Anything that is opensource is a threat
MPX: does playdeb.net work for any of you guys?
RambJoe: i want http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/v5/platforms/platform_linux.png to exist
Azalyn: DonScott: no, they arent.
Azalyn: actually, i'm not sure, but not last i checked.
Azalyn: regardless of stock price though, microsoft is still far bigger.
Azalyn: in net worth and what not
Azalyn: but like i said, that is mostly media distribution.
Azalyn: and really, i don't see that lasting forever. there is no doubt that they've had great success... but i think eventually market forces will demand a more interoperable solution.
Azalyn: maybe something like a peer-to-peer store or some sort. where anyone can have their own store.
DonScott: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9177401/Apple_tops_Microsoft_as_world_s_most_valuable_tech_firm
Azalyn: i still don't buy it. wikipedia tells a different story.
Azalyn: i don't see how it's even relevant to the discussion at hand though.
MPX: Well, you said
MPX: DonScott: no, they arent.
MPX: Then changed your mind a little
MPX: So DonScott digged the article up, and that's why it's relevant :D
Azalyn: it's not though. since we were talking about whether apple is a thread.
Azalyn: threat**
DonScott: Apple making more money than MS isn't a threat to MS ?
MPX: He asked a question, you gave an answer that was wrong
MPX: So he digged up an article with the answer
MPX: It's not rocket science
Azalyn: nope. would dell making more money than microsoft be a threat?
Azalyn: they have to be making money from the same source. since apple's success is mainly in digital distribution
MPX: Well, nintendo and sony are a threat to eachother
MPX: So yes
Azalyn: it doesn't really do shit against microsoft's dominance on the pc.
MPX: as long as there is competition, there are threats
MPX: If apple gains customers over, they are a threat to Microsoft
MPX: If dell gainst customers over they arent
MPX: But if Dell runs apple software, then yes, they too would be a threat
DonScott: or linux.....
DonScott: lol
MPX: Exactly
Nevtus: apple wouldn't licence out their software to Dell
MPX: Ofcourse not
MPX: It was an example
Azalyn: by that definition, then haiku is also a threat because a few people are running it instead of windows. in the end it's the numbers that matter.
MPX: Purely made for this discussion....an example on how to compare right and what not to compare
Azalyn: and apple just doesn't have the numbers to be a threat to windows yet.
MPX: Well, if alot of people were running haiku, then yes it would be an threat
MPX: Well, numbers in the article DonScott posted says otherwize
MPX: And there are a ton of the same articles that have come out lately....
MPX: And since wikipedia is voluntarily work, I wouldn't exactly use them as a source Azalyn
Nevtus: apple don't want to be a computer company anymore, it's the home appliance market that should be worried about apple
Azalyn: that says nothing about their pc sales.
Azalyn: that is about stocks.
MPX: Does not matter. If they make more then Microsoft, they are a threat to microsoft
Azalyn: it is irrelevant. it's comparing two different attributes.
MPX: Both make Operating Systems. Both are in the hardware market and both are in the software developement market
MPX: Saying that apple isn't a threat to ms is like saying that the IPOD isn't a threat to the ZUNE
MPX: which ofcourse, it is
Azalyn: wikipedia isn't any more unreliable than some article on a site. i see articles on various sites making errors all the time.. at least wikipedia has peer review.
MPX: Yes it is
MPX: Some people make money for their Journalism.
Azalyn: that doesn't change anything...
MPX: They need to be more sure of their information
MPX: Ofcourse it does
Azalyn: that just means they can get paid to be wrong.
MPX: Anybody can change what it says on Wikipedia
MPX: No, it means that they dig deeper because they know that their jobs may depend on it
MPX: What kind of world do you live in?
Nevtus: people make up crap to get paid for ALL THE TIME. It happens even in "respectable" broadsheets and major TV networks
MPX: Ofcourse, but in the long run, it won't work
Azalyn: reality, where capitalism isn't some idealistic dream society where everything always works perfectly because of the "profit motive" that people have been brainwashed to believe is the end all and be all solution to every problem.
Azalyn: that is where i live.
MPX: And when several sites reports on the same issue...it's not rocket science
MPX: You could have just said Earth
Nevtus: I recently watched a BBC news article that called Facebook an "ISP". Journalism makes lots of mistakes, more so with tech/science news
Azalyn: also, 'respectable encyclopedias' have had *plenty* of errors over time, as many as wikipedia. (adjusting of course for the fact that wikipedia has way more content, so you can't expect perfection in some of the more unpopular ones)
MPX: Your case being nevtuz? There are thousands of shows around the world every day
MPX: Wikipedia will always have more errors since it's not paid for
MPX: Linux would have gotten further today if it was paid for
MPX: Etc. Money talks. that's nothing new
Nevtus: the person that made that got paid and they done a poor job. Money doesn't make things right
Nevtus: and my nick is Nevtus not nevtuz
Azalyn: also, i take issue with you saying that i "changed" my mind earlier. i answered with the data i had on hand. given that there are two conflicting sources, you can't say that i am wrong or right at this point.
MPX: It is nevtuz
MPX: Its the same as Nevtuz
Nevtus: note the last letter...
MPX: My tab key autocompletes your nick into correctness.
MPX: Damnit. You got me there :P
MPX: I can't always win by being a smartass even if I do have a point
MPX: Azalyn: You said you did not know
MPX: Donscott knew...how ? He had data on it.
Azalyn: i was specifying that the last time i checked, that was not the case.
MPX: Actually, you said that after.
MPX: My point still stands
MPX: You changed your mind.
Azalyn: no, no it doesnt... :|
MPX: Whatever you say.
Azalyn: it's called a clarification.
Nevtus: apple are more of a threat to nintendo than microsoft. They are in the home consumer device market more than the general computer industry these days
MPX: Haven't said a thing against it Nevtus
Azalyn: nintendo are a step ahead of them though in terms of gaming.
Azalyn: and will likely continue to be.
Nevtus: eh, I'm off to watch Doctor Who
MPX: I've been watching alot of Scrubs lately :D
Azalyn: i've been watching anime.
Azalyn: i'm gonna take a catnap.
christian_lappy: MPX: scrubs rocks
MPX: christian_lappy: Yes, yes it does :D
MPX: I love dr cox...he's my reason for watching :D Him and Dr Kelso :D
GNU\colossus: how can I check if my video card's VDPAU features are in use while decoding video or not?
christian_lappy: MPX: he, yeah !
christian_lappy: GNU\colossus: check cpu load ?
christian_lappy: MPX: what also heavily rocks is 2andahalfmen
MPX: christian_lappy: Very true!
MPX: That's the second show I like :P
christian_lappy: hehe
christian_lappy: in germany every tuesday on pro7 :-)
NigeyUK: do b doo
NigeyUK: http://www.steamonlinux.com/?p=75
NigeyUK: do b doo
NigeyUK: hey Lanz
Lanz: Heya
Lanz: Sup?
NigeyUK: bored as bored can be
christian_lappy: lol
Lanz: Haha same
Lanz: I just got up... it's 3pm hah
NigeyUK: christian if you dont vote in that poll im stealing your lappy :P
NigeyUK: lazy shite ;)
Lanz: Haha it's because I had minor surgery, so I'm just taking it easy for a while
NigeyUK: ahh fair enough then
christian_lappy: NigeyUK: lol, which poll ?
christian_lappy: NigeyUK: ah, got it
NigeyUK: :D
christian_lappy: lolm i was the second voter :-D
NigeyUK: haha gd man
NigeyUK: it could be argued that its been a viable platform for years but we wont go there..lol
NigeyUK: although i think a YES vote carries more weight now that Opengl / khronos has finally got it's act together
christian_lappy: NigeyUK: telegraph revealed its source
christian_lappy: NigeyUK: its valve
NigeyUK: they told me that to, but wont provide any proof
christian_lappy: why should they lie about that ?
NigeyUK: the sceptics wont shut up until they see it from valves moputh so to speak :(
NigeyUK: mouth*
christian_lappy: yeah
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: there is no proof they can give you when they directly talked to someone at valve
christian_lappy: we need an announcment on the steam site
NigeyUK: Ivanovic, a name would be something
NigeyUK: or a job title of said person
NigeyUK: then we can narrow down who it was
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: if someone was talking "unofficially"?
NigeyUK: dude ive got unofficial quotes from 2 people at valve, but i cant publish cause theyre unofficial, off the record, and deniable :/
NigeyUK: and im totally convinced michael / phoronix know more than theyre letting on, from an official source to
christian_lappy: i hope so
NigeyUK: its just a waiting game :(
NigeyUK: but its a rather uncomfortable silence from valve, and slightly unusual
Ivanovic: if michael just has it unofficially, maybe officially but under NDA (including some "the official announcement is done with your site"), then he can just point to the available hints and list those as sources
christian_lappy: i'm not good in that game :-(
NigeyUK: Ivanovic, agreed, maybe he is under nda
Ivanovic: the stuff michael does write feels a lot like there might be some nda
Ivanovic: and what kind of nda could you use for a news site?
Ivanovic: the only real reason for an nda would be some advance deal maybe including earliest publishing of the press announcement
NigeyUK: yeah, i dont think he'd put phoronix's reputation at steak by saying oficially confirmed, if he wasnt aware of all the facts .. that'd be daft
NigeyUK: it could be a timed nda, keep things quiet till after the mac stuff setles down
NigeyUK: keeps jobs happy
NigeyUK: depends if / what deal valve have with apple
Ivanovic: yeah, depends on the deals valve might have with apple and/or phoronix and whoever else involved
NigeyUK: i just find it odd, that normally valve would deny something, liek if the client wasnt going to be released, theyd simply keep saying it, or pointing everyone to the wine part of the wiki, but lately they havent said a word on linux, just put up a brick wall.
christian_lappy: yeah
christian_lappy: its a no word abou it policy
NigeyUK: it sucks, tbh
NigeyUK: but there we go, we're just mere mortals waiting in the wings
christian_lappy: if it doesnt happen this time, it never will
MPX_: Thats bull :P
MPX_: It will happen some day.
MPX_: As long as Linux is opensource it will never die
MPX_: Just continue to grow and grow
christian_lappy: MPX_: no bull:Ü..just imho
MPX_: But christian_lappy why will it never happen?
MPX_: For valve, it's about business. If the business model says no NOW, it will eventually say yes, because linux won't die, like some other operating systems
christian_lappy: they games are ported to ogl, so what to wait for ?
MPX_: Money
MPX_: It won't be worth it if they don't get enough money for it
MPX_: But then again, they won't know until they try
christian_lappy: exactly
MPX_: What you should be asking, I think, is how many people use linux
MPX_: And when they know that, they have a business model
christian_lappy: yeah
MPX_: If they aren't happy with 10 million linux users, they might be happy with 20
MPX_: Linux will continue to grow, so some day it will come
christian_lappy: .....
christian_lappy: it would grow much faster with games
MPX_: True :)
MPX_: But you can't base your business on that (if you're following the typical model)
MPX_: Google does though :P
christian_lappy: google rulez
MPX_: And I'm confident valve will do the right decision when the time comes
christian_lappy: time is now
Gear0: There used to be screenshots of the progress in the steam client. Is anyone still bothering to keep up with the Linux client? Or is everyong just pretty much waiting for valve to release it?
MPX_: They would know this better then us :)
MPX_: I personally think it would be wise to have steam on linux
MPX: Google is doing AWESOME linux wise...and just look at the humble indie game bundle?
christian_lappy: yeah
MPX: Besides the evergrowing community :)
christian_lappy: we need faster grow
NigeyUK: Gear0, the client is being worked on by a few in here still
NigeyUK: i think espes managed to get some fonts to partially render
christian_lappy: really? nice
NigeyUK: MPX, i totally understand what your saying, and agree with you to a point, valve has to make the decision based off a financial viewpoint, but what is it going to take for 1 of these big companies to risk a move to linux one day, it seems everyone is ok just waiting for the other guy to take the leap
MPX: Well...didnt google already do that?
NigeyUK: not with gaming...
christian_lappy: yet
NigeyUK: you see, up until 6 months ago the game studios couldve argued that opengl wasnt upto it, but v4 has finally got opengl back to being a rival to directx
NigeyUK: hats off to the khronos group for getting their shit together too...lol
MPX: True NigeyUK
NigeyUK: i mean tbh if opengl was still stuck in the situation it was 6 months ago, noone would touch it with a bargepole imho
mamalujo: only 6 months ago? I thought 3.0 was a disappointment, but rest was well maybe not great but still ok?
NigeyUK: 3.0 was a mess
RambJoe: can you put google tv on any computer
Kame: Huh, I hadn't heard of Google TV
MPX: NigeyUK: Dumb question, but is OPENGL like DIRECTX (Meaning: Would I need an opengl 4.0 compliant card, or will it work on the ATI 5X series? )
mastertheknife: MPX: OpenGL 4.0 and DirectX 11 are just APIs, but they both require pretty much the same hardware support
mastertheknife: MPX: And ATI 5X series is OpenGL 4.0 capable, maybe not fully though
NigeyUK: what mastertheknife said :)
MPX: Okay :)
MPX: Are there any OpenGL 4.0 tech demos out there though? Videos?
NigeyUK: afaik all new nvidia and ati / amd cards are compliant with opengl 4.0
NigeyUK: yeah
NigeyUK: lemme find a link
NigeyUK: especially good in ogl4 is the tesselation
MPX: CAn you hold the link? Need to reboot...be back in 30 secs
NigeyUK: sure
Rednaxela: Hm, ogl4.0 adoption seems much quicker than 3.0
MPX: Sorry I took so long...connection problems
MPX: Hit me up with that link yo :D
mastertheknife: I think the european song contest this year is totally not fair
mastertheknife: the phone lines should only open after all songs have been heard
NigeyUK: http://unigine.com/products/unigine/
NigeyUK: try the heaven demo
NigeyUK: lol eurovision is always screwed up
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: the lines opened over 1h ago, but not all songs were played yet
mastertheknife: this is so unfair
NigeyUK: thats a bit silly :/
NigeyUK: MPX
NigeyUK: Changes in version 2.1
NigeyUK: * Support of OpenGL 4.0, including hardware tessellation
NigeyUK: :D:D
mastertheknife: I'm sorry for my poor knowledge about the unigine
NigeyUK: although you do need a dx11 / ogl 4.0 gfx card for hardware tesselation
mastertheknife: but does that engine exist for linux?
NigeyUK: afaik yup
MPX: nice
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, its being used for primal carnage
NigeyUK: Cross-platform: MS Windows (XP, Vista, Windows bullet_clear7) / Linux
mastertheknife: lol no mac osx?
mastertheknife: rofl :)
mastertheknife: valve should have followed the same route
NigeyUK: haha yes!
mastertheknife: os x is just bad for gaming, poor drivers, lack of opengl support, can't change hardware
mastertheknife: but Valve believes the Mac is an open platform..
mastertheknife: yeah valve, way to go
NigeyUK: mac osx is an open as a damm jail!
NigeyUK: when will people get that?! grrrrrrr
NigeyUK: btw ..
NigeyUK: Efficient and well-architected framework makes Unigine highly scalable:
NigeyUK: bulletMultiple API (DirectX 9 / DirectX 10 / DirectX 11 / bullet_clearOpenGL) render
MPX: The only thing mac is better at is a more polished GUI...that is, if you like the GUI
MPX: Perhaps easier App management?
NigeyUK: i was going to buy a mac, but i couldnt justify spending £1100 on a machine that had outdated, unchangeable hardware
MPX: Wait wait..user friendlier is the word I'm looking for
NigeyUK: lol
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: my friend bought a new mac few days ago for 1700 eur
mastertheknife: i so laughed at him
mastertheknife: he could buy the same pc for around 600 eur
NigeyUK: pmsl
NigeyUK: exactly!
NigeyUK: and he could UPGRADE
NigeyUK: a concept unfamiliar to mac fanbois
MPX: I feel sorry for Poland entering the eurovision contest
MPX: Dude on TV said that this was their 44th entry
MPX: 43 losses before that
mastertheknife: My country (israel) is also a joke, they always send terrible songs
mastertheknife: but oh well
Tazzypillar: fuck
MPX: I hate your israelis for one thing
MPX: You're too good looking
MPX: I'd never take my gf to israel :P
NigeyUK: lol
mastertheknife: LOL
Tazzypillar: o;
mastertheknife: a lot of people say that
Tazzypillar: my laptops all humid ;w;
Tazzypillar: this is terriblee
mastertheknife: israel now
mastertheknife: our terrible song
MPX: Yeah I'm watching
MPX: I just know that Norway hopes it doesn't win again
MPX: It's too expencive they say
MPX: Norway is like a big uncle scrooge
MPX: Schools are rotting, yet we'
MPX: re one of the worlds richest countries..
MPX: Israel's melody sounds familiar...weird...
mastertheknife: that artist has much better songs
MPX: mastertheknife: what is he singing about?
mastertheknife: yet they sent this terrible one
mastertheknife: about words
MPX: Oh...that nobody understands :O
MPX: It's weird that Israel is in the contest isnt it though?
The_Muh: do you vote for germany?
MPX: I mean, it's great! The more the merrier...it's just that...you know...eurovision
mastertheknife: yeah no idea
mastertheknife: the german singer was hot
The_Muh: xD
MPX: I won't vote :p
The_Muh: would you vote for Rammstein? xD
MPX: If I could vote...I'd vote for norway
MPX: It's weird...everytime he sings, I see a unicorn racing on the stage, a princess in a tower...mickey mouse
MPX: Oh no they didn't...cover every breath you take melody by sting
MPX: I mean, if you're gonna enter the Eurovision contest, atleast get some competent singers :på
The_Muh: every year a big german newspaper writes something like that "germany gave alot of money for the Eurovision Song Contest,but we lost because the (bad) east-european country are voting each other"...
The_Muh: *countries
MPX: Lol
MPX: It's true though
MPX: We here in Norway we always vote for sweden, finland , denmark and iceland
MPX: And they vote for us... :)
The_Muh: thats because i dont watch this contest
MPX: MGP...or Eurovision...has little to do with talent at times :P
MPX: Yeah, but sometimes, talent WILL win
MPX: Last year was a joke...and even how much I hate Alexander Rybak...he was the best
The_Muh: and: it not my music
The_Muh: *it is
MPX: I don't understand how Spain thinks it will win with that song though..
MPX: Lena's song was pretty good though
The_Muh: (and the best german bands never sing a song for the contest...)
MPX: BTW: Isn't germany known for having bad relations with the eastern countries (bad joke I know) :P
MPX: I gotta love the really bad Norwegian accent....we can't escape it
The_Muh: dunno... dont care where are people come from... and i also dont care about the meanings of other countries about germany
The_Muh: (is that a correct sentence?)
MPX: So you don't care if I love germany? :(
MPX: Cus I do...
The_Muh: MPX: you do? sry, but: are you stupid?
The_Muh: i life here, and i hate this country!
MPX: No, not stupid
MPX: But I love the german people, I think germany is a pretty country
The_Muh: maybe its nice for holidays, dunno... but not for living
MPX: I don't know why...Been there alot of times
MPX: I love the place
The_Muh: o_O
MPX: Ofcourse, if you're talking work wise and economics, then yeah
MPX: I wouldn't want to live in germany EITHER if I had the luxury to choose
MPX: But then again, I like to solve problems
The_Muh: i'm talking about all... ugly cars, bad tasting beer, ugly towns, stupid politicians,...
The_Muh: and a boring landscape
adrian_broher: people that complain about everything
adrian_broher: ;)
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173683&page=66
mastertheknife: what a fool
mastertheknife: lol
The_Muh: adrian_broher: thats typical german... yes.
The_Muh: complaining all the time, but no1 does anything...
The_Muh: you remember about the DDR? Every fucking day anyone (most of them are <20 years old) say something bad about the "ossis" (people who lived in the DDR are called "Ossis")
The_Muh: thats the most sucking thing in germany.
NigeyUK: hah i think that dude from 5by5 is ignoring me
MPX: I don't like it when this channel becomes quiet...
NigeyUK: i blame The_Muh
NigeyUK: :p
MPX: I'm voting for germany!
MPX: Screw belgium!
The_Muh: NigeyUK: hm?
NigeyUK: lol nm
NigeyUK: you get your domain working ?
The_Muh: yup
NigeyUK: ah great :D
The_Muh: and i wrote a thank you to you in my blog
MPX: Come on finland! Vote norway!
NigeyUK: ohh, ill have to check it out !
The_Muh: most of the entry is german
NigeyUK: crikey so it is
mastertheknife: thanks finland
mastertheknife: :)
MPX: Yeah, I'm voting for Germany aswell
MPX: But then again, you're not :D
The_Muh: discovered a very awesome song ...
MPX: What's with the jacket...
NigeyUK: how's the u.k doing? :|
MPX: Germany's won this Eurovision :D
MPX: I don't think they are...at all
MPX: :P
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: 5 points so far
The_Muh: oO oh no...
NigeyUK: oh crap, i wanted us to get 0 .. lol
The_Muh: NigeyUK: you dont like UK? or your artist?
NigeyUK: both! lol
NigeyUK: and i live here..haha
MPX: I miss living in the UK :s
NigeyUK: it sucks
MPX: Probably depends on where you live
NigeyUK: true
NigeyUK: wales is crap, it rains to much :( it's ruining my new lawn
MPX: I lived in Lymington :D Small town down south
The_Muh: NigeyUK: stop kidding me =P
NigeyUK: seriously! lol
NigeyUK: i spent a fortune on that lawn !
MPX: Wow! Greece could afford to put the guy in a suit :D Bad joke I know...
MPX: Poor greece :( Another bad pun :(
NigeyUK: pmsl
MPX: I got to stop with them
MPX: The icelandic chick is Smokin hot :d
NigeyUK: prolly a guy in drag
MPX: I remember the Norwegian commentator saying something like
NigeyUK: lol
MPX: If lena is 17, I'm the queen in drag clothes
The_Muh: she's 18
MPX: She responded by showing her passport in the newspapers :P
The_Muh: oh.. no... 19 Oo
The_Muh: 23 May 1991... a month after me...
mastertheknife: shes hot
mastertheknife: no wonder they are #1
mastertheknife: shes just 19
MPX: That commentator is OLD
MPX: But shes worked out ALOT....
MPX: She used to have tons of working out programs on tv
MPX: Well...I THINK it's her..
The_Muh: i think she looks like a doll...
MPX: Kinda
MPX: Isn't that what girls are aiming for though? :p
MPX: Oh wow look at that Ukraine girl :D
The_Muh: does not watch to the song contest
MPX: The Latvian guy was funny :D
mastertheknife: wtf
MPX: mastertheknife ?
mastertheknife: MPX: hey.. 5 points, how kind :)
MPX: =d
MPX: Yeah, I take all credit
MPX: If I hadn't run out of money and several of my cellphones had died of exhustion
MPX: I would have made 6 =d
MPX: Anyone tested Ecomstation 2.0?
RambJoe: installing arch on virtual box :P
MPX: That's funny
MPX: Running Heaven benchmark with or without crossfire makes no difference to the FPS
RambJoe: ati drivers ftw
MPX: Very true.
RambJoe: chroot failed to run command passwd
RambJoe: wttffff
NigeyUK: :o
NigeyUK: b0rk
RambJoe: http://i.imgur.com/GwmV4.png
RambJoe: its stuck like that how do i get out
MPX: First scene in heaven (1920x1080 Tess: Normal) 12 fps
MPX: Same with Crossfire :P
RambJoe: fucking arch :(
Nevtus: so Germany won. I guess it wasn't a bad song but I kinda liked Armenia
RambJoe: fuck so i have to isntall grub before /arch/setup lol
mastertheknife: that german girl is hot but also a little dumb
mastertheknife: in the end she asked "do i have to play my song again?"
mastertheknife: and after playing it, she said "i dont know what to do now where do i go.."
Nevtus: Armenia's singer was way hotter
mastertheknife: then the show was cut off
Nevtus: she did seem very confused
Nevtus: poor Azerbaijan, they were really expecting to win
Nevtus: also great job with us coming last again (UK)
Ivanovic: Nevtus: just have a look at the improvement of the germans compared to their rank last year...
Ivanovic: so if the germans can do this, the british should be able to do something like this, too...
Nevtus: yeah they really done well
Nevtus: I don't think we care enough to get a good entry
Ivanovic: this year germany got more points than the last six years combined!
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: What's wrong with Arch?
Nevtus: omg. Dennis Hopper is dead :O http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment_and_arts/10191448.stm
RambJoe: setting it up is confusing lol
GodofGrunts: It is?
Nevtus: arch is easy to setup
RambJoe: on the /arch/setup thing it said grub isn't installed, but i cant install grub before i do that lol
Ivanovic: RambJoe: regarding setting up arch you just follow the manual step by step and are done
Ivanovic: rather easy...
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: what? You don't need grub installed to run arch...
RambJoe: oh
RambJoe: i thought i couldn't boot without it
GodofGrunts: Well
GodofGrunts: if you don't install it when you finish
Nevtus: setup installs arch once you've installed everything else
Nevtus: *grup
GodofGrunts: you'll need some sort of loader
Nevtus: ...
Nevtus: *grub
RambJoe: oh
GodofGrunts: Grub is just the easiest
mikeplus64: If you go through the beginner's guide word for word then you probably won't have any problems. ( unless you need a very obscure setup )
GodofGrunts: Yeah like a propane powered cheese grater
mikeplus64: That said I replaced the default 'network' daemon with wicd because the default one was giving me weird problems that I didn't care to bother trying to fix.
mikeplus64: Probably because of error on my part.
RambJoe: oh wait i can go to virtual terminals when im in the setup thing
GodofGrunts: yeah
GodofGrunts: alt+F#
GodofGrunts: mikeplus64: I prefer Wicd as well
RambJoe: thanks, how do i get out of it
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: press alt+F1
GodofGrunts: should take you back to the installer
RambJoe: yeah it does thanks :D
GodofGrunts: No problem. It's what I do xD
RambJoe: couldn't find /mnt/boot/grub/menu.lst
RambJoe: hmm the arch installer tries to add it to /mnt/boot/grub/menu.lst when it is actually in /boot/grub/menu.lst
GodofGrunts: no
GodofGrunts: the /mnt/ is your chroot enviorment
RambJoe: oh
RambJoe: have i installed it to /mnt then :S
GodofGrunts: What are you doing that it's trying to find boot meny?
mikeplus64: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRSdOY8d8CE&feature=related is good installing-arch music for you.
GodofGrunts: No no.
GodofGrunts: When you install from a live CD
GodofGrunts: This is what happens
GodofGrunts: It mounts the hard drive to /mnt
GodofGrunts: it copies all the files over
GodofGrunts: and then does a chroot
RambJoe: ohh
GodofGrunts: So it SAYS /mnt
GodofGrunts: but to the computer
GodofGrunts: you're now on the harddrive
NigeyUK: nn guys catch you all tomoz :)
RambJoe: im confused now what should i do :S
GodofGrunts: Lol are you not following the begginer's guide?
GodofGrunts: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide
Nevtus: start from scratch and follow the guide
GodofGrunts: Step by step instructions that won't fail you
RambJoe: ok thanks
GodofGrunts: Yep :D Are you coming from one of the "noob" distros?
RambJoe: yeah ubuntu
GodofGrunts: Ah.
mikeplus64: Get used to looking up wiki pages. ;)
GodofGrunts: Here's a tip. The wiki is your best friend.
GodofGrunts: Lol hive mind
mikeplus64: The Arch wiki has fantastic documentation.
The_Muh: imho arch isnt beginner-unfriendly
The_Muh: we have a good wiki
RambJoe: it doesn't say anything about mnt lol
GodofGrunts: I agree. It's just beginner-scarey
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: Don't worry about /mnt
RambJoe: yeah but the install bootloader on the arch setup needs it lol
GodofGrunts: One day, you'll install Gentoo and understand what's going on
GodofGrunts: No it doesn't I promise
RambJoe: http://i.imgur.com/Q17Sx.png
RambJoe: should i just skip that and do it manually
GodofGrunts: That happens after you do what?
mikeplus64: I think you should start from scratch following the guide.
RambJoe: um i chose 7. install bootloader
GodofGrunts: Nah brah
RambJoe: then chose grub, then that happens
GodofGrunts: That's the last step
RambJoe: oh
GodofGrunts: ;)
GodofGrunts: Follow the wiki
mikeplus64: You do that before you reboot to be welcomed into Arch.
The_Muh: dont do step 7 before step 6, 5, 4, and 3 =)
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: Interesting post about dx vs opengl
GodofGrunts: mastertheknife: Thanks? How did you know about it?
GodofGrunts: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide#Step_3:_Start_the_Installation
GodofGrunts: That's where you want to start
mastertheknife: you posted it in the linux client thread
mastertheknife: a link to it*
GodofGrunts: Oh are you in that thrad?
mastertheknife: Yeah, the picture of microsoft's dx9 vs dx10 is hilarious
mastertheknife: I never knew dx9 can look so bad ;)
mastertheknife: I'm taling about the halo comparison
GodofGrunts: xD Directx is just so bad. I have no idea why people use it.
Nevtus: microsoft tells them to
mastertheknife: Yeah, its marketing
GodofGrunts: It's stupid is what it is
GodofGrunts: I would imagine that all new valve games will be OpenGL
RambJoe: xbox encourages people to use it :(
Nevtus: and it's easier to port for the Xbox 360 which is why you get lots of Windows/360 games in the past few years
RambJoe: yeah but they have to make it for xbox too
GodofGrunts: xbox uses a bastardized version of DX9 anyway
mastertheknife: The average Joe doesn't know what DirectX or OpenGL is, this is how microsoft wins
mastertheknife: most people are not aware enough of what microsoft is doing
GodofGrunts: Valve's pretty pissed at M$ for not letting them update TF2
Nevtus: actually developers are often quite clueless too
mastertheknife: sadly, yes
Nevtus: it's the developers that decide to go with DirectX
GodofGrunts: No
RambJoe: i keep getting permission denied lol
GodofGrunts: These dumb college kids are trained in Directx
mastertheknife: A lot go with DirectX because of microsoft spreading FUD how DirectX is better
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: You just fail a lot don't you? ;)
RambJoe: yeah lol
mastertheknife: so they know that if they go with OpenGL, their game might not be as popular
RambJoe: i love how you need a dx11 card for tesselation with dx
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: Oh man did I rant about that
mastertheknife: my 8800GT can do opengl hardware tesselation?
mastertheknife: or software only?
GodofGrunts: It should
GodofGrunts: I think
GodofGrunts: Tesselation has been in openGL since 2006
mastertheknife: I heard somewhere that DX11\OpenGL 4.0 hardware is needed for hardware tesselation
mastertheknife: i hope you are right :)
RambJoe: do microsoft get money for every dx card sold or something
GodofGrunts: Sort of
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: and now microsoft ripped it off and makes a hype about it
Nevtus: mastertheknife: the same is true about choosing Windows to develop for in general. It's depressing how many other studens are brainwashed by MS
GodofGrunts: They get to license the technology to Nvidia and AMD
Nevtus: *students
GodofGrunts: mastertheknife: They always do that. "Hey we have aero so you can see through thing! Check out this awesome snap feature!"
GodofGrunts: Erm...
RambJoe: valve need to pull out of the xbox :(
GodofGrunts: Compiz had those back in 2004,,,
GodofGrunts: STFU LINUX USERS
mastertheknife: Yeah
mastertheknife: its always like that
Nevtus: I don't think valve is hurting themselves by supporting the xbox. They'll probably continue to support DirectX for Windows anyway
RambJoe: they said they aren't doing opengl for windows though
RambJoe: meaning mac/osx will probably always get a shitty port
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: Not for their current games
RambJoe: mac / linux*
RambJoe: oh
GodofGrunts: They didn't say anything about the future games
RambJoe: problem is the xbox will suffer the most from a shitty port as it has the weakest hardware, well not my problem
GodofGrunts: But really there is software that can translate OpenGL to directx and vise versa
RambJoe: but it isn't as good as native is it?
GodofGrunts: It is native
RambJoe: and i thought if i'm logged in as root i can do anything :S
RambJoe: oh
Nevtus: well written engines don't have to write for any platform dependant API directly. Well written engines can switch to different renders easily
GodofGrunts: It translates to openGL before it compiles
giselher: GodofGrunts, there are precompiler directives for OpenGL and DX calls?
mastertheknife: Nevtus: like the Unigine
Nevtus: I was thinking of OGRE 3D but yeah, Unigine is another good example
GodofGrunts: giselher: I'm not sure what you mean, but from what I understand about the software, if you code something in OpenGL this software can translate it to DirectX code.
giselher: nevermind :)
mikeplus64: I miss the "Steam on Linux confirmed!" hype.
GodofGrunts: mikeplus64: Me too. :( I was hoping for an annoucement.
MPX_: Me too...I'll even take fake news :D
mastertheknife: mikeplus64: lets hope it happens in the E3 (june 15-17)
mastertheknife: But Valve might use E3 to promote the mac version
mastertheknife: so Steve Jobs will be able to go on stage and brag or something
mastertheknife: lol
Nevtus: the E3 reception to a linux client would be confusion. Gaming press probably aren't the biggest linux users (at present...)
mikeplus64: Yeah. Something tells me that they wouldn't be expecting much of a Linux crowd to show up at E3 ( perhaps due to the lack of many games on Linux ).
mikeplus64: I think that if they did they would brag the the Source engine is now superduperportable or something.
mastertheknife: Anyone can attend the E3, entrance fee is from $40 to $100
MPX_: I'd like that
mikeplus64: I live in Australia. :\
MPX_: I'd wear a penguin suit :;D
Nevtus: Gabe walking out on stage in a penguin suit would be legendary
MPX_: It'd be funny if you could like...obtain seats thru tickets...have about 50 penguins sitting next to one another
MPX_: There would be no applause for windows or mac news :p
Nevtus: that's be quite a failure if nothing linux was annouced
MPX_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCXLwpkX56g&feature=player_embedded <- Do want
Nevtus: *that'd
MPX_: No, it would be to make a statement :D
mastertheknife: Gabe is in love with the Mac, he sees it as an open platform. And in the picture with Jason and Alfred, you can see him holding an iPad
RambJoe: and penguins
RambJoe: alfred apparently assists the "linux ports of games"
Nevtus: the ipad is the opposite of an open platform
RambJoe: apple don't even like vp8 lol
RambJoe: i dont think they want anything open on their products
Nevtus: well, apple do own patents that make up MPEG-LA
MPX_: After the video interview I saw of gabe about Mac...he didn't seem much inlove with them
RambJoe: ohh
MPX_: Pure business standpoint is what I got out of it. The only thing he liked was the stability
RambJoe: well looks like iphone/pad isn't ever going to be wathcing videos on the internet unless theirs an "app"
MPX_: So, do you think OpenGL will be available for the windows source games aswell?
Nevtus: that says more about windows instability than mac stabilty
RambJoe: not current source games
RambJoe: and its not on the css beta was has been upgraded to the latest source engine
Nevtus: not unless this mutiplatform test goes REALLY well for Valve
Rednaxela: While I'm not a fan of directx, I don't have much faith in the ogl governing body really
MPX_: When was Linux Tag again?
GodofGrunts: Rednaxela: What was that a reply to?
Rednaxela: Some of the opengl talk there's been all day. Not to any one thing specifically
The_Muh: gn8 folks
MPX_: k
MPX_: Night guy
GodofGrunts: I haven't read the release notes for OpenGL 4 yet so I don't know what they included/didn't include. I'm pretty excited for it though.
MPX_: Fun
MPX_: Damn keyboard...Funny, I never thought Steam would make 2010 the year of the desktop :P
MPX_: Let alone any year
ryan22: i wonder how valve will deal with pulseaudio
GodofGrunts: Just wait. We'll ahve a steamOS soon.
GodofGrunts: ryan22: hopefully awesomely.
ryan22: ive had nothing but trouble with it and native games
GodofGrunts: Nice name btw ;)
MPX_: ryan22: that's not up to valve
MPX_: But I bet that if you changed the soundserver in your distro, steam would work just as well
GodofGrunts: Yeah I don't think Valve has to do anything for Pulse to work
ryan22: the problem is pulse is so high latency that it breaks games that depend on sound for timing
ryan22: which is bad coding practise but most of them do
ryan22: wine gets around it though
MPX_: Pulseaudio REALLY works for me these days so yay
GodofGrunts: It's high latency? I've never noticed any audio/video lag
DonScott: yeah it's high latency
ryan22: the devs optimise for low power consumption instead of latency
DonScott: i had to remove it
mikeplus64: PulseAudio on my system just doesn't work for me. ( crackly audio, audio that goes "pop" then stops working etc. ) Whereas plain ALSA does.
ryan22: which is ten kinds of stupid
MPX_: does http://www.playdeb.net work for any of you guys?
DonScott: no
Nevtus: nope
MPX_: dammit..been down for 3 days now
ryan22: im looking into OSS4, supposibly it has per-application volume controls and works with existing code
GodofGrunts: would rather have hi power consumption and good latency
MPX_: I'm looking into Ecomstation 2.0 :D
MPX_: That is, if I can ever get a copy of it...don't have 150 bucks :S Would love to pay for it if I had it though
ryan22: i would rather have both low latency and power consumption, but id take low latency if i had to make a choice :P
ryan22: i wanna try out beos
MPX_: Ahh...1999
MPX_: I got it on a disk from a Computer Magazine
Nevtus: ryan22: http://www.haiku-os.org/
MPX_: I tried it, and I wouldn't stop trying it until the day I upgraded and it was unsupported...this was in like what? 2009? :D
MPX_: Wheres my steam for Haiku!
ryan22: Nevtus: haiku is a great idea, but it does have enough dev to be completed
ryan22: *doesnt
MPX_: Haiku moves along pretty fast
MPX_: Uses all my 4 cores and whatnot :D
MPX_: It detects my sound, my ethernet, my wifi, my USB...
GodofGrunts: It's built to be threaded?
ryan22: hmm im impressed
GodofGrunts: That is impressvie
MPX_: If it's built after beos...then really...beos was all about multithreading :D
MPX_: Works GREAT on an asus m4a79T deluxe mobo with Phenom II 955 Black Edition
GodofGrunts: I didn't know that.
ryan22: modern linux comes awlfully close though
GodofGrunts: It does?
MPX_: Oh yeah...that was the big thing Beos was famous for
MPX_: Threading and multiple cpu support
GodofGrunts: I don't linux is very threaded at all
ryan22: especially with xfce. i *heart* xfce
mastertheknife: Heh, one of the most important changes over the last few years was NPTL
mastertheknife: Native Posix Threading Library, much better and faster than the old linuxthreads
MPX_: Besides...Haiku won't ever die as long as it's opensource
ryan22: man one of these day i wanna run 20 1080p videos on linux using vdpau
GodofGrunts: Oh... Hmmm...
MPX_: That's the beauty of opensource...even if the original devs leave it, you can just stick a fork in it
MPX_: ryan22: you could do that on beos 10 years ago :p
ryan22: 1080p? ;)
mastertheknife: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxThreads
GodofGrunts: ryan22: You know CRTs can go much higher than 1080p
ryan22: GodofGrunts: They are a pain to calibrate though
MPX_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVmZrQV6irE
MPX_: Gotta love this video
GodofGrunts: Why did BeOS die?
ryan22: apple didnt but them
ryan22: most of the devs went on to make webos though
ryan22: *buy
MPX_: Well...Bad management
MPX_: You know
MPX_: Like Amiga <3
GodofGrunts: I never used BeOS or Amiga so I really couldn't tell you.
GodofGrunts: I've heard they are god like though
MPX_: Sigh...best amiga video ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mg6wrYCT9Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=lT-bUPjhxFo
ryan22: i liked the cpu stat lights on the front of the bebox
MPX_: They ARE God like
ryan22: they dont make status lights like that anymore, except maybe on mainframes
MPX_: People are running Doom 3 on old amiga hardware...come on :P
MPX_: I can't wait for Aros...
MPX_: Did you know they bridget the gap between aros and the emu for amiga?
GodofGrunts: Didn't some company just come out with a new version of Amiga?
MPX_: You can just double click on an ADF file now and it autodetects everything
ryan22: hmm i didnt know there was a amiga clone project
ryan22: cool
MPX_: Not sure GodofGrunts
GodofGrunts: Lol! Black Mesa=Windows
MPX_: http://www.aros.org
MPX_: Amiga Research Operating System
MPX_: Runs on modern hardware :)
GodofGrunts: Nice furry as the mascot
MPX_: http://aros-exec.org/ <- devs are active in the forums
MPX_: I love these alternative operating systems...love them to death
GodofGrunts: I've only dabbled in some of the more "main stream" alternatives
GodofGrunts: Linux, BSD, Solaris
ryan22: i wonder how reactos is coming along
GodofGrunts: I tried ReactOS at one point
GodofGrunts: lol
MPX_: Take Ecomstation 2.0
MPX_: It runs on modern hardware
MPX_: Has MSDOS and Windows 3.11 in it
MPX_: It runs it better then both did natively :D
ryan22: lol
MPX_: I SO want a copy...I'd do anything for the final release
ryan22: i remember running windows 3.11 in dosbox
RambJoe: ffs i cant lock the pacman database
MPX_: Imagine running it natively :P
MPX_: Well, I did manage to get it running under Freedos on my quad core
MPX_: Didn't take a second to boot even
ryan22: i had an old 486 with windows 3.11. the bios battery went so i had to reset the cylinder settings everytime i booted
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: Steam your install on livestream
MPX_: Now freedos....that's moving slow.... :( :(
MPX_: Ahh I remember my 8088...4.77 MHZ, no harddisk drive...256 KB of ram.
RambJoe: what like webcam?
RambJoe: i just need to reboot but it keeps saying command not found lol
GodofGrunts: MPX_: Does it need to do anything else?
MPX_: 1 Color screen :D (green, 13 " )
MPX_: GodofGrunts: What do you mean?
MPX_: Sorry, I lost you :(
GodofGrunts: You said freedos is moving slow
GodofGrunts: what that a joke?
MPX_: No I meant the developement
GodofGrunts: What else doe sit need to do?
MPX_: Where is my version 1.1 already dammit...It's been years
MPX_: Better SB compatability for starters
GodofGrunts: I can play Mech Warrior in it and I can do BIOS flashes with it...
ryan22: doesn't dosbox use freedos
MPX_: I believe it uses some code from it ryan22
MPX_: Yes GodofGrunts but do you get sound?
MPX_: Can you run windows 95 from it?
GodofGrunts: Yeah
MPX_: On which point is "yeah"
MPX_: :P
GodofGrunts: I can upgrade to Windows 95
GodofGrunts: I can hear sound as well
MPX_: On freedos?
GodofGrunts: Yep
MPX_: Damn...didn't know that was possible
RambJoe: ffs i powered off the machine now i have to start again -.-
MPX_: I only thought win3.1 was
GodofGrunts: MPX_: It may have been 3.1
GodofGrunts: I forget
MPX_: OSNEWS published a good article on how to get MacOS 9 running under virtualbox (I think) :D
MPX_: Well, for me it didnt work
DonScott: .....why would you even want to run version of Windows 15-20 years old ???
MPX_: Emm386 had a timing problem (freedos) so the soundblaster would not work
MPX_: This, being that my hardware was too modern
GodofGrunts: Someone published an article on how to get mac ox 9 to run off a flash drive
MPX_: But installing MSDOS 6.22 on the same hardware, the sound would work...but then again, there would be othjer complications like multibooting, different partitions, etc
MPX_: Himem.sys issues...guh...But sound worked :D
mastertheknife: heh i hated DOS
mastertheknife: all those .sys files and autoexec.bat etc
MPX_: I like dosbox. But I like running things natively....that's why I also try not to use emulators, but collect the console classics :P
MPX_: I love msdos :D It's the bomb
mastertheknife: everything in DOS just felt so hackish
mastertheknife: maybe its because i compare it to now
MPX_: My atari Portfolio comes with DrDos 3.0 I think :D
GodofGrunts: mastertheknife: It IS hacked
MPX_: Oh btw, about aros?
MPX_: You can run Aros withing your linux
MPX_: No rebooting or anything
GodofGrunts: in VB?
MPX_: No, natively I think
MPX_: http://aros.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/nightly-download?20100529/Binaries/AROS-20100529-linux-i386-system.tar.bz2
MPX_: For x86 linux
MPX_: Nightly build
Gear0: So if steam and Source Engine do come to Linux... would that mean anything at all for FreeBSD?
MPX_: Apart from alot of anger and stuff?
GodofGrunts: hahahaha
Gear0: yes
GodofGrunts: BSD is full of pricks
GodofGrunts: They probably would protest steam if it was on their system
MPX_: Very true...
MPX_: The more CLI it gets, the merrier the pricks :D
RambJoe: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=124873021 lol wut
RambJoe: "HD tb"
RambJoe: tv*
mastertheknife: What linux needs is simply more developers
GodofGrunts: Yeah... I wish I had enough skills do be a developer
DonScott: nah it needs more marketing.....
mikeplus64: "Found" this on the Arch Linux off-topic joke thread: http://i.imgur.com/Ln3zU.png
GodofGrunts: Nah brah, it needs more hot womenz
oNNy: haha mikeplus64 ;D
GodofGrunts: Nice
GodofGrunts: Everyone here should vote in the steamonlinux.com poll
RambJoe: i have
RambJoe: hm what if i chroot / then do the arch install
RambJoe: as it seems everything goes to mnt
GodofGrunts: omg RambJoe
RambJoe: lol :$
GodofGrunts: Follow the wiki!
GodofGrunts: Look
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: it doesnt take any skills
Nevtus: I think linux has more than enough developers
GodofGrunts: Go step by step and tell us as you go
RambJoe: ok
GodofGrunts: mastertheknife: Erm, don't you have to know quite a bit of C?
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: It requires some computer knowledge and a creative mind
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: C is really easy to learn
GodofGrunts: I know a little of C
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: Its better to learn C though before C++
GodofGrunts: To late
GodofGrunts: I learned on C==
GodofGrunts: C++
mastertheknife: GodofGrunts: for C++ there are some good books, but for C google tutorials are enough imo
mastertheknife: then need to learn some Qt4 for GUI, which is something that i plan on doing too
GodofGrunts: Eww
mastertheknife: as soon as i finish with my windows project
GodofGrunts: gtk > qt4
GodofGrunts: I can code actually
GodofGrunts: I do python coding and c++ on the side
Nevtus: C/C++ aren't as hard as many pople think. I learnt a bit of C and now I'm moving on to C++, not had much problems moving from mostly python/java experience before that
mastertheknife: oh cool :)
mastertheknife: C is very simple actually
mastertheknife: but i think its much better to learn C first before C++ because then you know the differences between those two languages better
mastertheknife: C++ is like C but with many burdens removed and new features added
GodofGrunts: Well I chose C++ over C because of OO
MPX_: I choose D
GodofGrunts: Lol
GodofGrunts: Actually, the more I do python, the more I fall in love with it
GodofGrunts: And like .1 percent of the Linux kernel has python in it :D
mastertheknife: Gentoo uses python a lot
GodofGrunts: So does Ubuntu
ryan22: i love vala
GodofGrunts: Which is?
ryan22: c# recomplied into c
ryan22: no runtime
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: You on a step bro?
GodofGrunts: ryan22: C#? *barf*
MPX_: I'd love to get my hands on a 486 Mobo...I wonder if anybody makes em at all? They're prolly still in use in terminals around the world, so somebody ought to still make good old parts
GodofGrunts: C# Needs to die.
ryan22: http://live.gnome.org/Vala
ryan22: its been benchmarked to be as fast c
GodofGrunts: Oh wait, This isn't C#
GodofGrunts: it's just uses the same syntax
ryan22: yep
ryan22: the syntax of c# with the speed of c ;)
GodofGrunts: http://www.livestream.com/ikimono
GodofGrunts: Streaming O brother where art thou
GodofGrunts: personally I hate the syntax of java and C#
ryan22: the problem with c++ is it doesnt have standard garbage collection. vala uses g-object to extend c to provide garbage collection via reference counting
tkmorris: vala in portuguese means gave
tkmorris: *grave
MPX_: Nice...getting 2.1 mb a sec from the steam servers
MPX_: Gotta give credit to them for the bandwith
RambJoe: yeah
RambJoe: i get like 3.5MB/s although my internet only supports like 2MB/s :|
GodofGrunts: RambJoe: Happens to me sometimes
ryan22: tkmorris: its also a cell phone company is kosovo :P
tkmorris: crazy names xD
ryan22: my fav is still telepathy and empathy
MPX_: I want some rumours about steam :D
GodofGrunts: MPX_: Did you hear? Steam is like.... Really hot water
Rednaxela: Tsk tsk MPX, rumors don't do any goo
Rednaxela: *good
MPX_: Meh,....When is linux tag? michael said he'd perhaps let some major info slip
Nevtus: tag?
MPX_: Isn't that what it's called?
MPX_: Tagger?
MPX_: Something?
DeathCrawler: is waiting for Steam, Valve surely will deliver.
MPX_: Taggart? Somebody help me here please..
thomas_sch: were the ubuntu vs windows 7 benchmarks done with compiz activated as well??
mikeplus64: Anybody here using an Asus Xonar D2, Asus Xonar DX or Asus Xonar D2X without any troubles? ( using ALSA at least )
RambJoe: ffs everytime i reboot it completely forgets everything i did before
thomas_sch: has somebody the files for the linux steam client from the steam site mirrored?i only got skins_all and public_all but am missing bins_linux.zip and steam_linux.zip
RambJoe: fuck arch
Rednaxela: Wouldn't quite be legal to do so thomas_sch
thomas_sch: Rednaxela: the files were on a public server in the pub dir what's illegal in mirroring a public server? :P
Azerthoth: thomas_sch, is it open source?
Azerthoth: no? then there is a pesky thing called copyright
Rednaxela: Yeah
Rednaxela: Just because something is publicly accessible, doesn't mean one can legally distribute it to others
mikeplus64: RambJoe: Maybe you could go on #archlinux and then get better help.
thomas_sch: mikeplus64: what exactly is your problem?
RambJoe: thanks didn't know there was an arch channel :D
mikeplus64: What I don't have any problem, RambJoe was having troubles installing Arch.
thomas_sch: ahh where is he stuck?
RambJoe: um if it reboot it makes me start again
RambJoe: with virtualbox
thomas_sch: does grub load?
Azerthoth: your operating system
mikeplus64: If you're still booting from the live cd thing then there's your problem.
RambJoe: ohh
RambJoe: oh wait it /mnt the cd
thomas_sch: omg gn8 at all
Azerthoth: wanders off, being a smarta$$ is such an underappreciated art form
RambJoe: did my noobiness just scare everyone off :(
Tazzypillar: dont think so
mikeplus64: lol
RambJoe: lol
Azalyn: STEAM LINUX CONFIRMED. LQQK!
llua: zOMG
mikeplus64: Eh?
Lanz: Whaaaaa?
mikeplus64: Or right.
mikeplus64: Hello to you too. :)
mikeplus64: lol
Fenix-Dark: Hi
Fenix-Dark: I'm curious if I'm the only one that thinks that the advertisements on phoronix.com are very intrusive and annoying?
Azalyn: nope, i mentioned it just the other day.
Fenix-Dark: Azalyn, ah ok. I can't get through 1 page of an article without closing 3-4 unintentional ad popups
Azalyn: and michael larabel seemed like he rage-quited after i said it. although it could've been a coincidence. :)
Fenix-Dark: I like the site, the advertisement setup just gets in the way
ryan22: i dont mind the banners. i hate the psuedo-popups
DonScott: the pop-ups are always bad because it usually nothing you want.
Azalyn: sometimes there is a bulky guy in a speedo putting oil all over himself... :|
Azalyn: i have no idea what it's even advertising
Azalyn: but it's annoying.
Azalyn: they also animate by themselves even if you don't mouse-over them.
Gear0: Similar to the "iGordon" for the mac release.. I made a "tuxGordon" :) http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/6216eb75ba.jpg
Azalyn: lolz
Gear0: his tummy is white, just like tux
Azalyn: you should try to make a higher res one
Azalyn: for a wallpaper
Azalyn: 1920x1200
Azalyn: :)
Gear0: actually I have it as 2700x1800
Azalyn: that works too
Azalyn: :O
Gear0: but I'm not too great with image editing so I think if you look close at the big one you can see jaggy edges
Gear0: someone would be free to edit if they want.
Gear0: actually it's not that bad, I'll upload it
Azalyn: opensource your changes :D
Azalyn: if you uploaded the project file complete with the layers and so on, then others could fix it up
Gear0: ah, I was saving it as .bmp lol
Gear0: I'm a nub
Azalyn: lol @ bmp
Azalyn: you know that png is lossless too right?
Gear0: ya, oh well
Gear0: taking too long to upload
Gear0: ok, for anyone who cares, here's the large one as .jpg http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=eznzvaiydyy&thumb=4
Gear0: The original one by valve that I was editing is this one: http://www.boingboing.net/oimages/02_igordon.jpg
Gear0: someone could probably do a better job
bluekoal1: Wooo tux gordon!