bluekoala: Oh Svartal, he's so wise
mastertheknife: Svartalf yeah
mastertheknife: I think valve should hire him to port the client xD
mastertheknife: In a post in the forums he said that if valve takes him he will gladly drop whatever he is doing
bluekoala: srs
bluekoala: I wonder if he submitted his resume?
mastertheknife: probably not
bluekoala: He probably debated it
mastertheknife: he can work offsite like rbarris does
giselher: who is Svartalf?
bluekoala: LGP guy
bluekoala: In the forums
giselher: Oh :0
giselher: link? :D
bluekoala: www.phoronix.com
bluekoala: :P
bluekoala: He has thousands of posts
mastertheknife: around 2500
bluekoala: And he never seems to sounds stupid
giselher: Ah
bluekoala: Which is a skill that I lack
Sir_Brizz: do you think icculus 3would admit to there being a linux client when Valve hasn't officially announced it?
mastertheknife: heh
mastertheknife: I wish english was my native language
mastertheknife: i'm so bad at writing english which is why i barely write on forums
bluekoala: It looks ok right now
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: probably not
bluekoala: Which continent are you on mastertheknife?
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: I'm not sure how much he knows about the client, he doesnt have anything with Valve
mastertheknife: bluekoala: i'm from israel
bluekoala: Ah
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: yeah doesn't seem he would have any reason to know yet
bluekoala: I know a guy named Israel
bluekoala: Sir_Brizz: In the forums, some take it as proof that there is no steam client
mastertheknife: heh
Sir_Brizz: indeed
mastertheknife: they are wrong
mastertheknife: there is a steam client, we just dont know what valve is gonna do with it
Sir_Brizz: in the forums they also say not to play with, discuss or even faintly think about the client or Valve will immediately cease all developments on it
bluekoala: Yes
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: we're not playing with it anymore since Valve took off the manifest\files
bluekoala: I've read that
Sir_Brizz: because Valve runs theur business based on the contents of the Phronix forums
Sir_Brizz: ;)
bluekoala: lol
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: indeed, although it still makes you wonder why they left the files up for so long and then blocked them
Sir_Brizz: doesn't seem like mere coicidence
mastertheknife: Yeah
mastertheknife: I'm sure they did it for one or two reasons
mastertheknife: 1) To create hype 2) to see how much interest exists for a linux client
bluekoala: 3) provoke trolls
Sir_Brizz: maybe Valve was trolling
Sir_Brizz: but the fact exists that Linux portintg work has been done for Steam and Source
Modplan: they're looking for new employees and used the client as a test. mastertheknife will be hired by valve in the next few weeks
mastertheknife: me yeah right.. I think Svartalf should port the client for us :)
Sir_Brizz: cool, then I can say I knew him before he was famous and everyone will be jealous of me
bluekoala: No, everyone will think you full of *$&#
bluekoala: Except for 15 year old sluts
Modplan: then I can say i confirmed it before everyone else
Sir_Brizz: nobody will believe me until he shows up at a party uninvited with a birthday present for me
bluekoala: MASTERTHEKNIFE CONFIRMED!
Modplan: then he'll sweep you off your feet whilst a power ballad plays in the background...
Sir_Brizz: haha exactly
Sir_Brizz: it will be like a romantic comedy
Sir_Brizz: except not gay
bluekoala: Maybe a lil'
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Modplan: MASTERTHEKNIFE IN HIDDEN MAN LOVE AFFAIR CONFIRMED
bluekoala: Heheh
bluekoala: Source: Sir_Brizz
Sir_Brizz: :mwink:
mastertheknife: hey
bluekoala: Howdy
mastertheknife: it seems steam official forums moderators are not ban-happy anymore
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1282793
bluekoala: They're just sleeping
mastertheknife: For example this guy.. i thought he will get banned for his thread
mastertheknife: but no, he's sitting in a timeout LOL
Sir_Brizz: http://www.tonmo.com/forums/images/smilies/mwink.gif
bluekoala: When Valve announces STEAM LINUX CONFIRMED!; I bet they'll mention that phoronix ruined the surprise
bluekoala: And then everyone will flock to phoronix
bluekoala: Steam client for DOS 6 confirmed!
Rednaxela: I'm waiting on Steam client for Amiga personally
Modplan: michael should do benchmarks for Amiga vs DOS, see which would better suit HL2
bluekoala: Dos performs 4% better off a boot diskette!
bluekoala: draws graph
Modplan: then we can start checking http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_amiga/ and http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_dos/
MPX: Do western women have permission to travel in to saudi arabia without a man? Sorry for being way offtopic
MPX: Just dont know who to ask :P
bluekoala: Someone asked that very same question at work today
bluekoala: Oddly enough
MPX: Yeah
MPX: I got a sister, shes a compulsive liar
bluekoala: Send her there
bluekoala: We will find out
MPX: She lives in egypt, says shes travelig to saudi arabia
MPX: And, she's requesting money from the family.
mastertheknife: MPX: she moved from the norway to eygpt ?
MPX: I told them I'm pretty sure it's not allowed for white western,non muslim women to travel there
MPX: Yeah
mastertheknife: what is there to look in eygpt :|
MPX: Partying
bluekoala: wtf?
MPX: Compulsive lying often comes with being a junkie :p
bluekoala: Who goes partying in egypt?
mastertheknife: send her to israel
mastertheknife: lol
MPX: Oh yeah, you heard me
MPX: Partying
mastertheknife: lots of parties
bluekoala: (Other than your sister)
MPX: Espacially in the deserts
MPX: You know...there do exists kids there aswell :P
MPX: Personally, I don't care much for egyptians in general
MPX: Alot of slippery oil there...
mastertheknife: lol
MPX: Perhaps thats why she moved there :P
bluekoala: ...............
mastertheknife: When bush thought about iraq's oil everyone was like bush is evil
mastertheknife: but now many americans complain that their gas prices are too high
MPX: Yeah, I judge people.
MPX: Everybody does
MPX: I don't judge by color though, that's dumb
bluekoala: mastertheknife: People generally don't know why they're complaining
MPX: But every nation has their culture and mentality
MPX: and some nations don't mix
bluekoala: Gas would be cheap even if it was 3x the price
MPX: We pay 10 dollars a gallon
MPX: Even if you paid 3x, I bet we would be more expencive :P
bluekoala: Possibly
mastertheknife: MPX: for 95 ?
MPX: 80 percent tax on oil
MPX: yes
mastertheknife: I will calculate here
MPX: Norway you know
MPX: :p
mastertheknife: 6.3 NIS/liter
mastertheknife: let me convert that to gallons
bluekoala: How much is a NIS?
MPX: a gallon is 4.88 liters no?
bluekoala: We pay around .9 USD per litre
mastertheknife: gallon is 3.785 liters
MPX: That's so cheap :S
MPX: we pay 2
MPX: Oh right, I missed by 1
giselher: MPX: wtf?
bluekoala: MPX: Turst me it's better that way
giselher: I pay 1.20 € / litre
bluekoala: If gas prices were calculated on energy/dollar it would be much more expensive
MPX: And now, when the Norwegian goverment (you know, trying to be a "good example" for other nations by going "green", like other nations care what a small country living off oil money with 4.5 million people do) is trying to go green
MPX: by "forcing" it upon us
bluekoala: If the baseline was based on the cost of creating hydrogren
MPX: They turn the prices higher
mastertheknife: gallon costs $6.4 here
mastertheknife: of 95
MPX: a pack of cigs costs 20 dollars here
mastertheknife: diesel is cheaper
MPX: Because the goverment finds it so unhealthy
MPX: It's even locked away in a store so it's "harder to buy" :p
giselher: It is unhealthy
MPX: I know
MPX: I quit two years ago
MPX: But come on...give people a choice
mastertheknife: My friend from germany also said gas is expensive there
giselher: I quit one year ago
mastertheknife: its strange that gas in israel is cheaper
MPX: We're supposed to be one of the world leaders on democracy
mastertheknife: usually everything else is a lot more expensive
MPX: Well, our democracy is what the US would consider communism
MPX: We've had free health insurance for decades and have one of the best economies in the world :P
MPX: Germany is also a very expencive country :)
mastertheknife: giselher: $1.7/liter for 95 here, about the same i guess
giselher: yeah
MPX: General rule by thumb
MPX: The more north you go in europe, the more expencive it is
bluekoala: Here is canada we normally have 89 for regular
giselher: Austria is more expensive than Germany :-/
MPX: I want to move to canada :¤
bluekoala: Go for it
MPX: Can't afford it
bluekoala: I would suggest vancouver, ottawa or montreal
MPX: :)
mastertheknife: bluekoala: whats wrong with toronto?
mastertheknife: lol
MPX: I wanna go to toronto :D
bluekoala: mastertheknife: What's right with it?
mastertheknife: its beautiful
mastertheknife: the CN tower and everything
mastertheknife: and montreal is full of french
bluekoala: ... chicks
mastertheknife: which may seem more like france
bluekoala: Hell no
bluekoala: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
bluekoala: Noway uh-uh
bluekoala: People from Montreal go to france
MPX: I'm half french
bluekoala: And think they're a bunch of jack-asses
MPX: I'm kind of....embarrased by it these days
MPX: Considering the french government is a complete joke
bluekoala: We need a new Joan of Ark
MPX: Thats exactly what they don't need
MPX: France needs to calm down, learn tolerance
bluekoala: Why not?
MPX: and learn from other countries
MPX: Too much...turmoil? Is that a word?
bluekoala: What does France not tolerate?
MPX: You know...street rages in paris...burning cars
MPX: Let's see
MPX: Religion, Gay, etc
MPX: Oh yeah
bluekoala: What religion and which gays?
MPX: Studens applying for jobs?
bluekoala: That's always been an issue is France
MPX: Religion "is" tolerated to some extent these days
MPX: But there have been occasions in recent times they've wanted to ban it all
bluekoala: Who was the last king of France?
MPX: What has that got to do with it?
bluekoala: And does he have a profile on monster.com?
bluekoala: I think France would be better off with a benevolant dictator
MPX: heh
bluekoala: \Rather than an evil one
bluekoala: That got elected
MPX: Really
MPX: France is a beautiful country with lots of nice people
mastertheknife: I actually like Sarcuzey
MPX: Truth be said, so is England....the hate is just dumb
MPX: Either way, France reminds me of russia
MPX: It's the Fuck off, we're the best attitude that gets to me
MPX: We'll redub all movies to french
bluekoala: ..........
MPX: We won't tolerate speaking english to foreigners! Everybody should speak french
MPX: I don't tell french people to talk norwegian when they are here
MPX: We use a common international language
mastertheknife: MPX: what do you think of Sarkozy?
MPX: + The leftover colonies that france has? That they don't give a crap about :S
MPX: Well, let's just say I'm not too proud of it
MPX: Sarkozy is krusty the clown
MPX: He has ordered to have with him a stool he can stand on
MPX: Because he is so short...
MPX: Everytime a picture is taken he's standing on a stool to appear taller then what he is
mastertheknife: I actually like Sarkozy for some exceptional reasons
MPX: Dude is insecure, and he loves to show it.
bluekoala: Please do tell
MPX: I don't know about you, but I don't like world leaders being insecure and all
MPX: It makes me think of them as puppets
bluekoala: Aren't they though?
MPX: Because really, I find no good reasons for a person with insecurity issues to become president of a nation
MPX: Something tells me theres somebody behind it
MPX: You know
MPX: Kinda like russias president being a meat puppet for Putin :D
mastertheknife: France and britain are very anti israel, mostly because of biased media. Sarkozy is actually pro israel, which is something not seen in France for a while.. he came to visit here in israel a lot
MPX: Putin scares the living shit out of me
MPX: Ex-KGB, Ex-CIA
mastertheknife: Putin is scary yeah
bluekoala: What's pro and anti-israel?
MPX: He has probably killed more people with his own two hands then I have...I don't know what to compare it to
bluekoala: There's good people everywhere you go
bluekoala: Just bad ideas being implemented makes the rest look bad
MPX: mastertheknife: france in general is kinda anti jews
MPX: It's weird really
MPX: The country of colors :P
mastertheknife: bluekoala: antisemitism behaviour
bluekoala: So was england and germany
MPX: Well
mastertheknife: Germany not anymore
MPX: They WERE
bluekoala: I don't even know what anti-semitism means
MPX: france IS
MPX: But don't get me wrong
bluekoala: Doesn't it mean "sons of Sam"?
MPX: I love france, I love the people there that a nice
mastertheknife: Anti semetism is so bad that many times over the internet when someone asks me where i am from i just say Middle East
bluekoala: Just say "Jerusalem" People will think you're jesus
bluekoala: We had a guy working with us
MPX: Well
bluekoala: He was Aramaic
MPX: There was an old saying on irc...Say no to .NO
bluekoala: And when people heard him speak to his family, they thought "oh a terrorrist"
MPX: That's because kids here in norway...well, we have a country 3 x the size of uk
MPX: with 4.5 million people
bluekoala: But then we would say: "No no, he's speaking the Jesus language"
MPX: We're known to do as we please without getting into trouble with the neighbour :P
bluekoala: And the would go "Oh! I thought he was arab, my mistake"
mastertheknife: bluekoala: but arabic and hebrew sound very different
bluekoala: He's from Iraq
bluekoala: Ninaveh
mastertheknife: ohh
bluekoala: He speaks Aramaic
bluekoala: And he's christian
mastertheknife: Anyone saw "Don't Mess with the Zohan" movie?
MPX: TBH, I'm not too fond of israelis either. Well, TBH again, I was raised with prejudice, so my initial feeling screams WARNING WARNING. But then my senses kicks in and tell me to fuck off and accept that people are people no matter where they are from
mastertheknife: with Adam Sandler
MPX: It's funny that how you were raised will always stick
MPX: Yeah mastertheknife, I own it :D
mikeplus64: MPX: Not always true.
MPX: I forced my girlfriend to watch it :D
bluekoala: mikeplus64: He doesn't always own it? :P
MPX: Ofcourse not mikeplus64
MPX: Theres an exception to every rule
MPX: I'm not though....
mastertheknife: MPX: hope you liked it :P
mikeplus64: Then the exception becomes the rule.
mikeplus64:
MPX: I've grown up with racists, worked with racists, etc. It got to me in the end...it's just so effin dumb
MPX: I always tell racist folks
MPX: That the only kind that cares about colours are queers
bluekoala: lol
MPX: I don't mind gays...but they do...and calling them queer sure ticks them off :D
mikeplus64: Then you end up with people who hate queers instead. xD
bluekoala: Everyone hates queers, especially queers
MPX: People who hates blacks, most almost certainly hates gays
mikeplus64: Probably.
bluekoala: I've noticed that trend too
MPX: Theres just alot of racism here
MPX: Jew jokes about gas chambers are way common here among kids
MPX: It's a shame really that theres not much focus on that
bluekoala: I love racist jokes, but I don't judge people by where they're from or what colour they are
MPX: I don't like em...heard enough of them
MPX: I don't find joking about tragedies like mass genocide funny,...for some weird reason :p
mastertheknife: MPX: The thing is that most of the world think that israel is a religious country and people all religious following all rules such as not doing any work on the rest day and other stuff
MPX: hmmm...no
MPX: I consider them skirt chasers :P
MPX: You're talking about my view on muslims ;)
MPX: To be fair, I've met tons of religious nuts....only one that wasnt
mastertheknife: MPX: but to be honest, about 60% of israel are normal people that live normally just like any european or american, except they celebrate jewish holidays.. the other 40% are the religious ones
MPX: I'm religious
MPX: I don't celebrate anything though
bluekoala: It's the 40% that can be dangerous :P
MPX: Celebrating stuff is more of a tradition these days then anything else
bluekoala: I was under the impression that the israeli goverment had a very strong bond with judaism
mastertheknife: MPX: It creates a big conflict.. the 60% wants public transporation on saturday\rest day, but the other 40% don't and this creates a lot of conflict but in the end the 40% win because of israel's origins and because lot of people in the goverment are religious
MPX: Yeah I can see that
MPX: But then again, even if the bible tells us the "right way"
MPX: The bible also states how important it is to choose
MPX: Between following god or your own path
bluekoala: which leads to god?
MPX: It's funny how religious nuts have always skipped that part
MPX: :D
MPX: No
MPX: The bible states that god won't force anyone to believe in God
MPX: It's your choice
bluekoala: Who is god?
MPX: And choice is what it should be about
MPX: Well, usually it's the god of abraham
MPX: You know
MPX: Seeing as I'm reffering to the bible :p
bluekoala: Ah
bluekoala: And which god is that?
MPX: I don
mastertheknife: This is the also why Tel Aviv is far more poular than Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a dead city because of all the religious people that live in it, while Tel Aviv is like a 24/7 running city
MPX: 't know
MPX: Nobody does
MPX: that's the cool part of what is called Faith
MPX: That's why faith isnt called knowledge
bluekoala: Shuold you follow intuition to obtain faith?
MPX: I believe that if god created us in his image, we are a small fragment, a mirror of gods personality
MPX: I don't know what that means bluekoala, sorry...english is my third tounge
bluekoala: "Follow your heart/instinct"
MPX: I don't think so
MPX: I think it's quite arrogant to believe we are alone
MPX: But that's my opinion
bluekoala: I missed something
MPX: God just means Higher power :P
MPX: Nobody knows what god is
MPX: The bible defines god as pure love
MPX: as Life
MPX: but does not define what god IS as a form
bluekoala: So, I could go to your home with a rifle and be god?
MPX: No, a god is one with power to create life
MPX: ;)
bluekoala: I have that power
MPX: No
MPX: You have the power to mix life
MPX: to create new life
MPX: Or to continue life
MPX: as I like to put it :D
MPX: I'm a science guy
bluekoala: So
mikeplus64: To explain other religions, a completely nuts person I know said that Zeus, Yahweh, whateverhemadeup etc. were just all the Christian God when he was going through an identity crisis.
MPX: Science made me come to the conclusion of gods existance
bluekoala: By definition
MPX: Funny huh?
bluekoala: God is not alive?
MPX: I didnt say that
MPX: You assume that god has a starting point
MPX: I don't try to understand god
bluekoala: So you don't understand god?
MPX: Why try to understand something that isn't understandable when you are limited by your small human mind?
MPX: The universe is so large we aren't even dust in it
MPX: Nobody does
bluekoala: I do
MPX: but I understand the intention
MPX: Democracy and treat others equal
MPX: The bible says (well, you probably don't believe in the new testament I presume) that if one was to write down all the miracles jesus did on his time on earth, it would fill up every libary (not sure about the last, but it was measured to an extent of it not being enough room in the bible)
MPX: So, let's say that was true
MPX: Noone really has the knowledge to understand
MPX: That's why it's called faith, and not knowledge
bluekoala: I believe there's only 1 miracle
MPX: What's that?
bluekoala: Existence
MPX: I'm not smart enough to speak on the matter
bluekoala: If you believe in that miracle
bluekoala: The rest isn't so hard
MPX: I just know that the more I learn about life the less I know
bluekoala: That's true
MPX: The more I see
bluekoala: Because you learned from the top down
MPX: the dumber I get
bluekoala: Instead of the bottom up
MPX: No really lol
MPX: I come from poverty and all
mikeplus64: I learn from the Dennis!
MPX: I learned my way
mikeplus64: Towards the South-East
MPX: Read the bible myself two times
MPX: Either way, got to go :) Doctors app. cu :D
MPX: Nice talk :)
bluekoala: See you
MPX: It's always great to talk religion and whatnot without somebody screaming NUTS NUTS NUTS
MPX: Or...somebody being a fanatic...I hate fanatics
MPX: I like choice :P
MPX: Why I use linux :D
bluekoala: I use linux because I'm a fanatic ;)
The_Muh: i use linux because... i like it
mikeplus64: I can't understand how an all-loving god commits mass genocide on the people he loves ( Noah's ark, every first born, war after war etc. )... Someone will say someone about the Christian god apparently giving warnings over and over and over. I'm pretty sure Hitler gave a pretty strong warning to Jews and such but that doesn't make his actions any better.
bluekoala: :)
mikeplus64: Just my opinion, feel free to jump up and down on me.
bluekoala: mikeplus64: What's your definition of the christian god?
The_Muh: mikeplus64: and if you ask "why god does not help us" - "its because our free will" - "and whats about noah?"
mikeplus64: bluekoala: The god that Christians tend to believe in?
bluekoala: The_Muh: If God came to you and told you to start your own OS because all the other OS' will fail
bluekoala: It's not because he wants to help YOU
bluekoala: It's because he wants to help computers
bluekoala: mikeplus64: The god you described I believe is also the "jewish" god and the "muslim" god
The_Muh: bluekoala: christians (in germany) say "we have a free will. would god help us, we would lost the free will, so: god dont help us"
mikeplus64: Well, OK.
bluekoala: The_Muh: I think that's a great philosophy
mikeplus64: Do I have to say Jewish/Muslim/Christian god now? lol
bluekoala: :P
bluekoala: Abraham's god encompasses that
The_Muh: but if you ask why god has helped us (jesus, the ark, the story of moses...) then they look like "WTF?!"
The_Muh: "helped" xD
bluekoala: If you read the bible, I'm pretty sure it still applies
The_Muh: i read the bible
bluekoala: The number of the beast reminds me of the six sigma concept
mikeplus64: For someone who knows everything he should have known that creating everything was a bad idea.
The_Muh: okay - parts of the bible
The_Muh: after reading that, i was atheist
The_Muh: (9 years ago...)
bluekoala: So you have no theology?
The_Muh: i dont believe
bluekoala: In what?
The_Muh: not "in what?" - i dont believe
bluekoala: In who?
The_Muh: when i say "i dont drive" you dont ask "you dont drive in what car?"
mikeplus64: Atheism isn't a religion, it's a lack of it.
bluekoala: The_Muh: the sad reality of it is, you believe in reality
bluekoala: Don't you?
The_Muh: i know that the reality exist, i dont must believe in the reality
bluekoala: You believe you know
bluekoala: :P
The_Muh: why all humans must "believe" in everything?
bluekoala: It's a polarized concept
bluekoala: That all living things have
mikeplus64: Wait a moment I have to make up my mind on whether or not I believe you just messaged that.
The_Muh: bluekoala: all? you can ask a ladybug about her believe... =P
bluekoala: The_Muh: Ladybug doesn't have any religious beliefs
The_Muh: bluekoala: you said "that all living things have"
bluekoala: Ladybug believes it needs to eat shit and have sex
mikeplus64: If reality is not feasible to be created on it's own, then what makes a god that transcends everything any less feasible?
The_Muh: they dont believe - they are doing it
bluekoala: Because they believe
bluekoala: That they have to do it
bluekoala: They don't even question about god
The_Muh: no. why they should believe that they should do it?
mikeplus64: My desk doesn't believe it has to stand up for me.
The_Muh: they just doing it - and then its fine (for they)
bluekoala: The_Muh: Because if they didn't they wouldn't do it, therefore they wouldn't exist
The_Muh: and... the mind of a ladybug is filled with "i must eat" and "i must have sex" - no space for "i believe that i should have sex now"
bluekoala: You're missing the point
mikeplus64: You're missing the point!
bluekoala: You believe that you have no belief
The_Muh: no. I know .
The_Muh: its my mind - i know my mind like... like my mind
bluekoala: Or so you believe XD
The_Muh: and i think that you arent know anything about my mind
bluekoala: You can believe that all you want
bluekoala: And I can believe it too
bluekoala: Now let's write a book and make it a religion
The_Muh: you should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
bluekoala: kk brb
The_Muh: i expect that you already know the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Flying spaghetti-monster
mikeplus64: Hey leave His Noodliness out of this!
The_Muh: his what?
bluekoala: ARRRRGH
The_Muh: my wife isnt a big hippo! oO
The_Muh: =)
bluekoala: The_Muh: You believe is dischodianism, that's ok too
The_Muh: bluekoala: i already said: i dont believe =)
bluekoala: So, to you, is dischordianism true or not?
The_Muh: but the discordianism is fun
The_Muh: also the IPO and the flying spaghetti-monster
The_Muh: *IPU
bluekoala: Right
mikeplus64: Don't be led astray from His Noodly Appendages, young ones.
bluekoala: You have fun pretending to believe in something that mocks the beliefs of others
The_Muh: you are a chrstian?
The_Muh: then you shouldnt say something like this =)
bluekoala: I guess I classify as one
Tazer: Are we having religowars?
The_Muh: yup
Tazer: ooo bring me up to date
Tazer: I love religowars
bluekoala: Yes, you've joined just at the right time :P
bluekoala: The_Muh keeps saying he doesn't believe
Tazer: bluekoala~ what did you say, you naughty catholic schoolboy
Tazer: believe in what?
bluekoala: But I keep pointing out that he believes in not believing
bluekoala: Exactly
mikeplus64: And I keep butting in with something with no value to the conversation.
mikeplus64: :)
Tazer: c"
Tazer: C:
The_Muh: Tazer: not "believe in what?" - when i say "i dont drive" you wouldnt ask "in what car?"
bluekoala: He used that stupid analogy earlier
bluekoala: Which has no real bearring on the subject
bluekoala: IMO that is
mikeplus64: I'll repeat what I said as well then: "If reality is not feasible to be created on it's own, then what makes a god that transcends everything any less feasible?" because I didn't ( or did I? ) get an answer.
Tazer: The_Muh: The problem with that analogy is that a car is something physical and belief/want/etc are ideas. language treats them differently. If someone is yelling "I dont want this" you're inclined to wonder what it is
The_Muh: Tazer: why i should believe?
Tazer: I never said you should
bluekoala: The_Muh: Not that you should, just that you do
The_Muh: but when i say that i dont believe then you ask "in what?"
Tazer: Right?
bluekoala: ...
Tazer: You could "not believe" in any number of things o;
Tazer: I don't particularly "believe" that republicans aren't full of shit, for instance
The_Muh: bluekoala: then explain me _what_ i believe ... i'm waiting =)
bluekoala: You believe that you have a monitor in front of you
bluekoala: And that when you type shit, it goes to my screen
bluekoala: Do you not?
mikeplus64: And coincidentally, it does!
The_Muh: no i know that. (not the part with the shit)
bluekoala: Then you believe in something
bluekoala: You believe you know things
bluekoala: But no one really knows anything, they just believe a whole bunch opf stuff
The_Muh: i can touch the monitor, i can see it, i can smell it, i could taste it (i wont lick it), ...
bluekoala: Ok
bluekoala: So you believe the monitor is real then?
Tazer: Suppose God is the collective experience of all reality
mikeplus64: bluekoala: Completely OT but I think you would like Buddhism.( and no, I'm not Buddhist )
Tazer: You could theoretically taste/smell/hear/touch something like that
The_Muh: i know that its real. when the monitor isnt real, i couldnt read your messages
Tazer: you could do things to something like that that you didn't know were possible
Tazer: In that sense, you could "Know" God exists, anyway
The_Muh: Tazer: god isnt logical
bluekoala: Tazer: That depeneds on someone's definition of god
Tazer: Of course
Tazer: I said "Suppose", after all
The_Muh: if god made all - who made god?
mikeplus64: ME!
The_Muh: mikeplus64: =)
mikeplus64: Okay, it was an accident.
Tazer: But then again, the christian god and I think most gods say at one point or another "I am all that is"
mikeplus64: Sorry about that, guys.
Tazer: That implies that by most religious accounts, God /is/ the collective experience of reality
The_Muh: Tazer: any logical hints that god do exist?
bluekoala: I'm reminded of the line " I am everyfuckenthing a just a little more"
mikeplus64: Okay, how about this: There are two gods who constantly recreate each-other to justify the other's existence.
The_Muh: mikeplus64: who made which one first?
Tazer: The_Muh, that depends on whether you're willing/capable to listen to my enormous convoluted collection of little ideas about how God exists
The_Muh: and... who made the god that was first there`
Tazer: The_Muh, you realize that in your attemp to cancel out a paradox you only create another one, right?
The_Muh: new ones?
Tazer: A new paradox
mikeplus64: The_Muh: Wait a moment whilst I hit my head on a wall to try and become less logical and create an even less possible solution.
The_Muh: where?!
Tazer: You can ask "Who made God"
Tazer: But if there is no God you can ask "Who made everything else"
Tazer: In essence, they end up being the same question
The_Muh: Tazer: you believe (?) that god exist. i ask "who made it?"
bluekoala: And I ask: Who would make who makes god
Tazer: I don't believe God was made or began existing or stopped existing
The_Muh: endless recursion .
Tazer: My personal idea of God is that it's
Tazer: You know how the big bang ocurred by the explosion of a tiny singularity?
The_Muh: god made by god2 made by god3 made by god4.... but where is the beginning?
Tazer: The_Muh: There isn't one
Tazer: No End either
Tazer: Your question is based on the idea that time exists
bluekoala: Tazer: Has this fact been observed?
Tazer: And the dirty little secret is that it doesn't
The_Muh: you cant explain the beginning of the universe with "god" when you dont explain the beginning of god
The_Muh: if you do it you only change the question.
Tazer: No, of course not, but again we're dealing with beliefs here
bluekoala: The_Muh: I think that's a good point
Tazer: Who's to say theory isn't a set of beliefs based on hypotheses?
The_Muh: so i dont believe. believing isnt usefull
Tazer: Personally, I'd beg to differ, but then again..
bluekoala: The monkey believes the banana is good
bluekoala: Whether it reallyu is or not, is not important to the monkey until he actually gets it
The_Muh: ...
Tazer: So let me get things straight here
Tazer: Muh is an atheist, and blue, you're a christian, right?
The_Muh: you dont believe in the difference of the word "believe" and "Know" or?
The_Muh: @ bluekoala
The_Muh: Tazer: yup
Tazer: I'm not sure if I fall in the middle or in the insane fringe area between you two
Tazer: I'm like uber new agey "The Secret" type shit, but it works for me
The_Muh: agnostik...
bluekoala: The_Muh: I believe there is a difference
Tazer: I'm not agnostic at all
bluekoala: I believe that no one knows anything, just believes stuff
The_Muh: bluekoala: but you dont get it... imo
Tazer: I very definitely know God, he's got a great sense of humor
The_Muh: bluekoala: lol... so you belive that you believe in god?
bluekoala: Hence we all do
The_Muh: and... you believe that you believe that you believe in god?
bluekoala: I never said that
The_Muh: ....? xD
The_Muh: sry
The_Muh: of course you said that...
Tazer: Suppose Humans are Gods, though
bluekoala: When?
The_Muh: just read =)
bluekoala: Copy and paste the line
Tazer: The_Muh, let's get back on topic though
The_Muh: I believe that no one knows anything [...]
bluekoala: Ok
Tazer: Like I said, the question of who made God isn't valid because it's based on the concept of linear time
bluekoala: That has nothing to do with me believing in god
The_Muh: so you dont know that you believe. you believe that you believe
Tazer: And linear time is a man made measurement, not a fact of physics
The_Muh: thats u're believing
The_Muh: i lol'd
The_Muh: goes smoking
Tazer: ?_?
bluekoala: Tazer: It's an observed fact; that has people believing that it is linear
bluekoala: The_Muh: Yes, I believe that I believe stuff
Tazer: Yes, but all of physics says it isn't
Tazer: I know why people /believe/ it's linear, but that doesn't make it a fact
bluekoala: Tazer: That doesn't change the fact that time moves forwards :P
Tazer: It certainly doesn't change the fact that we believe it does
bluekoala: Correct
bluekoala: So can time be explained?
bluekoala: I believe it can :)
Tazer: Can God be?
bluekoala: I believe it can :P
Tazer: Factually, however. In a way people can experience.
bluekoala: It always depends on which context
Tazer: Because I think Time is already explained, it's simply that people can't experience it as it really is
bluekoala: Tazer: You did earlier
Tazer: Exactly
Tazer: What I'm trying to stress is that for us, time moves sequentially, because that's how we have to experience it to be able to act in our universe in the way that we do
Tazer: For Gods, that limitator simply doesn't exist
Tazer: hence, what came first is a meaningless question
Tazer: ...Apparently this idea is soighmehow laughable enough to ditch in order to go get h
Tazer: go get high*
Tazer: somehow*
bluekoala: I got weed
Tazer: Well I've got Coca Cola
bluekoala: And a pipe made out of a corn cobb
Tazer: but it's 3 in the morning and I'm way younger than either of you, it probably comes down to about the same
The_Muh: i'm out... begin to believe that this dicussion is senseless ;-)
bluekoala: Oh
Tazer: this coke is really really good
bluekoala: I got weeds in mny garden
bluekoala: That I should tend to tomorrow morning
Tazer: Nice try
Tazer: ~oh no, you've corrupted kids on the internets~
bluekoala: :(
Tazer: That's gotta earn you a few years in purgatory I guess(I'm heading straight to hell)
bluekoala: How can I get to purgatory when all I do is my best?
mikeplus64: Laugh with the sinners and cry with the saints.
Tazer: Well you corrupted kids on the internets!
Tazer: Maybe you shouldn't have done that you naughty boy, tsk tsk
bluekoala: But I did my best
bluekoala: And I tried, remember? :P
Tazer: Fair enough :p
mikeplus64: I'm 14, I must say, I am definitely corrupted due to this conversation.
mikeplus64: That'll be $1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 compensation.
mikeplus64: Because money makes it alll beeettteerrr.
mikeplus64:
Tazer: Gawd seriously
bluekoala: Money makes my wallet better
Tazer: you ruined my lives by mentioning weed in passing nooooo
Tazer: has multiple lives, also
bluekoala: I ruined all of them
bluekoala: :(
Tazer: Every last one.
bluekoala: How many live had you had before?
bluekoala: 30?
Tazer: a little over six thousand
bluekoala: All in this galaxy?
Tazer: not counting when I was born as twins
Tazer: yes
Tazer: There's sentient life on the sun, who knew
bluekoala: IN the sun
Tazer: It is the sun
Tazer: *met an astrologist once who thought that stars were the representation of God in each of their solar systems*
bluekoala: I wonder when the next flood is going to be
Tazer: he told me one of my parents was going to die early
bluekoala: I had dreams about it
Tazer: Flood? Dreams? U:
bluekoala: Yep
Tazer: you have what're they called, not premonitions
Tazer: oh fuck it, you see the future in your dreams?
bluekoala: Yeah
Tazer: O:
bluekoala: But I usually don'tremember
bluekoala: Until it happens
Tazer: That's happened to me a couple of times
bluekoala: And I dream of the lamest futures
Tazer: I bet I'm worse.
bluekoala: Except for the flood one
bluekoala: That was cool
bluekoala: And intense
Tazer: what was your lamest future
Tazer: did the flood involve you also
bluekoala: Spacecrafts were coming down to pick up cars and people and stuff
bluekoala: And there was a hugh portal type thing in the sky
Tazer: ahaha oh my god seriously?
bluekoala: And the water was comming fast
Tazer: oh my god dude you dreamed of 2012
bluekoala: 2012? meh
Tazer: pfffhahahahhaa
bluekoala: We'll see
Tazer: yes! We will :P
Tazer: I think it's a hilarious crock
bluekoala: Water came from the east coast of america
Tazer: cant remember
bluekoala: About 15km's tall
Tazer: is the east where the carribean is?
Tazer: or the other side?
bluekoala: I saw it from the north
bluekoala: I hear it's a common dream these days
Tazer: easier question: did the water hit California or Florida?
bluekoala: I wonder if it's something psycological that people have or if it's really something that'll happen
Tazer: you could check
bluekoala: More than likely
bluekoala: No I can't
Tazer: If more than one person has it I'm betting psychological
Tazer: Why can't you?
bluekoala: Yup
bluekoala: I'm going to google it
bluekoala: See what it says
bluekoala: There should be something out there
Tazer: http://www.dreamsleep.net/meaning-of-flood-dream.html
bluekoala: Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
bluekoala: Big flood = unexpected and expected changes.
Tazer: Best guess; the area that was flooded had some emotional importance to you?_?
bluekoala: I lived there all my life
Tazer: Do you feel emotionally overwhelmed about where you live
bluekoala: No
bluekoala: And I wasn't at the time
bluekoala: You may be feeling helpless in some aspect of your life. That is why you vent it out in dream.
bluekoala: ^^^ From internet
Tazer: the internet knows all
bluekoala: I don't think it was the case
bluekoala: Hence spacecrafts
Tazer: Also Death generally represents change
Tazer: not...floods.
Tazer: although the flood could represent death?
bluekoala: It's been like, 3 years and no one died
Tazer: Then I guess it was just a really cool dream?
bluekoala: Guess so
bluekoala: Going by what's on the internet
Tazer: eh, i need to reread conversations with god
bluekoala: I would have to say that extra terrestrial beings are keeping tabs on us and there's going to be a big change
Tazer: yeah
bluekoala: http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal
bluekoala: I liked it
bluekoala: I'd say it's more up to date than previous books
bluekoala: And many less pages
Tazer: Well
Tazer: this god certainly has a good portion of the total picture
Tazer: That was quite interesting, bluekoala, thanks
Tazer: Interesting that life can transcend universes, I always suspected it
Tazer: Also gives you a really good scope of how far there is to go
mikeplus64: A surprise VIA driver appears!
mikeplus64: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=via_open_turn&num=1
Tazer: throws a poke ball
giselher: Half life 2 26.5.2010 on OSX
Tazer: it's out? U:
giselher: http://store.steampowered.com/video/220/5724
Sleepy_Coder: :o
MPX: mikeplus64: Basically, why god allows it is because adam and eve said Fuck you god, we are on our own and we wanna be just as big as you (which you owe us btw)
MPX: And then god said okay lol here, free will. Do as you want and lets see for some thousands of years how ya do. Will you wipe yourself out or will you figure out ya need me afterall
MPX: Well...basically ;)
mikeplus64: MPX: Eh? Allows what? He didn't say "I allow myself to flood the world." with Noah's ark or something?
MPX: Or you could rephrase it as Ok lol if you think yer better at this job then I am then have a go. Solve your own problems and be your own god
MPX: When it came to Noahs ark
MPX: the world was filled with such violence that had never been seen before
MPX: God wanted to wipe humanity out and start over
MPX: and that means all of them
MPX: But then his man Noah was available so he said
MPX: Ok dude, you need to build me a boat and save everything but humankind (except for those who love me )
MPX: Lets start over! High five n stuff
MPX: I know these are good questions and all
MPX: And a priest would probably try to talk his way out of it like a politician avoids answers
MPX: But I've read the bible and it pretty much (don't have to believe in it though) defends god in every position, making god non evil
MPX: It's just that...
MPX: The priests say that "god works in mysterious ways"
MPX: cus they got no clue what it says in the book
MPX: Being a priest these days is a paid job.
mikeplus64: Right... Again, sounds a bit like Hitler, Hitler loved Germany so much that he had to rid it of what he saw as a vile population of Jews and whatnot.
MPX: If you don't get paid, you quit the job
MPX: Well
MPX: If you want to put god on a humanlevel, then sure
MPX: But god is god, and if god exists and created it all
MPX: I'm sure he created sorrow as well
MPX: So death might not be the same for god then it is for us
mikeplus64: But is that what someone who loves absolutely everyone unconditionally would do? Doom every last one of them to the hell he created?
MPX: Ya can't understand god :P
MPX: Well mikeplus64, who says hes dooming?
mikeplus64: MPX: You may as well have said "god works in mysterious ways" then.
MPX: Not really, the bible explains gods actions
MPX: That's why it's such a cool book imho
Nevtus: the bible isn't one book. it's a collection of books (written by mad people)
MPX: And again...god dooms who?
MPX: It's 66 books
MPX: Written by geniuses
mikeplus64: MPX: If you go to hell by not repenting for your sins and all of humanity is wiped out suddenly and what they would see as randomly, then wouldn't they all be going to hell because of this god?
MPX: If you think it's written by mad people you are trippin
MPX: If they were mad, noone would have cared for the book thousands of years later
MPX: There were alot of loonies back then
MPX: mikeplus64: hell isn't mentioned in the bible
MPX: It was a tool invented by the church to scare the people
MPX: To let them selfs have control
mikeplus64: Right... You know lots of people care about cave paintings that were even older than the bible, right?
MPX: You know...the whole church state thing
Nevtus: hell has the good music and the kinky girls. I can't wait to go there
MPX: the bible doesnt even neglect aliens mikeplus64
MPX: let alone cave paintings
MPX: It doesnt even neglect evolution
MPX: It says in the bible that God used tools in the creation of man
MPX: Jesus was a carpenter ya know...for a reason
mikeplus64: I'm just saying that because a book is old it doesn't make it valid.
asraniel: oh oh
MPX: Ofcourse not mike, I understand yer points
mikeplus64: Oh oh indeed.
MPX: Nobodys forcing anybody here to believe :D
asraniel: i like lord of the rings, cool book
MPX: But I know that some people might want to try to make me not believe by putting me in a corner
MPX: that is just as bad as trying to make people believe :P
Nevtus: asraniel: it was 6 books, published as 3 ;)
MPX: Pushing yer opinions onto others
MPX: I'm very fond of the word respect :D
mikeplus64: I'm going to assume that you think that either: evolution occured in the 7 days of creation? OR that the 7 days are actually thousands of years or something. If it's the former then: Keep dreaming. If it's the latter then: Do you really think that plants could survive for a thousand( if not more) years without the sun?
MPX: Well
MPX: It says in the bible that a day for god MAY BE like a thousand years for us
asraniel: i would so love to join that conv, but i need to eat! (stupid god, why do we need to eat????)
MPX: So one god day might be 64 million years
MPX: 3 billion perhaps
MPX: asraniel: because food tastes good
MPX: You don't need a god to figure that one out :P
Tazer: Again
Tazer: The whole time concept simply doesn't work with god
MPX: Sure it does
MPX: That's the easiest part imo
MPX: Even the eternity theory is easy
MPX: a beginning without a start
MPX: etc
Nevtus: did god invent time? there is no mention of that yet the days past right from the start
mikeplus64: Somewhat off topic but: What purpose would an all-knowing and perfect god have for a universe or life that he created?
MPX: Yes Nevtus
MPX: It says that time does not exist where god lives
MPX: So god invented time
Tazer: okay um
Tazer: it's 6 in the morning
MPX: You know it says in the bible that during one of the big battles
Tazer: I'm not going to discuss this
MPX: God stopped time
Tazer: good night guys!
mikeplus64: Cya.
MPX: The sun stood still upon in the sky
MPX: Funny thing is
Nevtus: on day 1, god invents time. ... that makes no sense
MPX: Some scientists are trying to figure out if the whole universe is a clock
MPX: and if you stop it, will you stop time :D
Tazer: wat
MPX: Actually it doesnt say when god did invent certain things
MPX: Let's say the evolution theory was a tool
Tazer: Literally all of Physics says that's the biggest load of crock ever :U
MPX: the bible is what? 1600 pages?
Nevtus: I'm surprised this conversation is happening in a linux channel
MPX: Tazer: Not really, thats why they are researching it
MPX: I think I actually read it on engadget a long while back :D
MPX: engadget...there you go
MPX: Linux talk :p
mikeplus64: Engadget... Oh... I see.
mikeplus64: ;)
MPX: mikeplus64: if you are by definition love
MPX: It would be evil not to share
MPX: Thus, god is forced to create
MPX: Thats my opinion anyway
mikeplus64: But with nothing created he has nothing to share with.
mikeplus64: So why create?
MPX: Because he can
MPX: And not using your powers to share
MPX: would then be evil
Nevtus: he was bored and wanted some toys to kill
mikeplus64: And if he really is all-loving, what does he have against the Amalekites(among others)?
Tazer: oh no we got into the whole love vs evil thing i'm leaving
MPX: Amalekites...sorry is that in the bible?
mikeplus64: Yes, it is.
MPX: Must be the english word for a group of people
MPX: I find it hard reading an english bible because of the different names
Nevtus: why is god a he anyway? It'd make more sense if god was a woman, giving life and all that
MPX: Like here, the book of genesis is called the book of moses
MPX: But then again Nevtus
MPX: You're breaking god into human level
MPX: Perhaps theres a 3rd, 4th, 5th choice for all we know
Nevtus: I'm just making a comment about the way most people think of "god"
MPX: And yeah, be sure to make jokes :D
mikeplus64: MPX: Again... And if he really is all-loving, what does he have against the Amalekites(among others)?
mikeplus64: Look up Amalekites if you need to.
MPX: mikeplus64: I really have no idea what the Amalekites are in my language
MPX: okay
MPX: arte those that he took the land away from?
MPX: and moved others in?
MPX: The promised land you know?
mikeplus64: I don't recall other than a "Command to kill Amalekites" somewhere.
MPX: Well
mikeplus64: Something about not forgetting what they have done to you when you were leaving Egypt.
MPX: Theres been alot of questions as to why god ordered the people living peacefully on the promised land
MPX: to be killed
mikeplus64: ( leaving Egypt?! I left Egypt?! )
MPX: Reason is explained in another book where god said he had told the people not to settle on the promised land
MPX: But they did and they worshipped false gods and stuff
mikeplus64: So what? Lots of people have worshipped 'false gods' ( in the Christian definition of it ) .
MPX: You know, this talk is exhusting :S Just been drained alot of blood from the doctor,
MPX: It's a heavy topic
mikeplus64: `I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'
MPX: Well according to god, there is only one true God, but there are many gods
MPX: notice the G difference there
MPX: Do not worship those gods he says
MPX: I am the one and only true God, the God of abraham
mikeplus64: Then how do we know he is the true god?
MPX: Well
MPX: We may never know
MPX: Perhaps god is an alien that comes here to harvest us every now and then
mikeplus64: /facepalmtree.
MPX: puts us back on 0 and gives us the bible
MPX: But seriously man
MPX: facepalm all you want
MPX: But we don't know jack shit :P
MPX: That's why it's called faith (Felt like I've said this before)
mikeplus64: What was that about respect I heard you say earlier?
mikeplus64: :P
MPX: What about it?
MPX: I'm not disrespectful
MPX: Matrix brings up a few ideas
MPX: But then again, the matrix theory is built up on a theory by old Philosophers
mikeplus64: Nevermind. It's not important to this conversation.
Nevtus: are you talking about the film?
MPX: You don't know and you probably won't ever figure it out
MPX: No, I'm talking about the theory behind the film
MPX: Not keanu reaves firing bullets no
Nevtus: you mean descartes and his evil demon theory?
MPX: Beats me, havent read it
MPX: But you have
MPX: Will you share?
Nevtus: substitute computers/robots for an all powerful evil demon
MPX: Ah yes
MPX: Well, the funny part is
Nevtus: all of the world you see right now is a creation of the demon, etc
MPX: I find it so anyway
MPX: I find all of these theories connected
MPX: Even pitch in the bible
MPX: It speaks of an alien lifeform (alien being not human ofcourse, not from earth)
mikeplus64: MPX: Here's some link I found that have a bunch of passages that say that there is only one god ( according to the Bible, that is ) http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-oneness-unity-one-god.htm
MPX: and worshipping
MPX: mikeplus64: I was not dissagreing
MPX: See
MPX: Jesus is a god
MPX: Gabriel is a god
MPX: God means higher power
MPX: Anything over humans are gods
MPX: but there is only one true God
MPX: thats why the bible reffers to god as the Almighty God
MPX: as in the creator of all things
mikeplus64: And despite the above passages you believe that there are many gods?
MPX: Did you read what I said?
mikeplus64: Yes, I did.
MPX: Okay
Nevtus: mikeplus64: MPX is clearly monotheistic
MPX: Let me rephrase it
MPX: God means a higher power. Anything higher then humans would be a god. Through old times, even people with alot of power has been considered gods
MPX: It comes down to power really
MPX: then there is the Almighty God
MPX: sorry
MPX: Allmighty
MPX: I hope I made myself easier to understand :)
MPX: Nevtus: tell me more about this demon :D
MPX: I find such things fascinating :)
mikeplus64: If there is only one god/'Almighty God' then to explain other religions in a way that doesn't involve "INVALIDINVALIDINVALID" is it that the 'Almighty God' had an identity crisis? Or are they just lesser gods?
Nevtus: MPX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_daemon
MPX: mikeplus64: the reasons for the thousands of the religions based upon one book
MPX: is because most didnt have the time to arse it down
MPX: And
MPX: Because people pick out what they like and use it for power
MPX: Like in the medievil ages :D
mikeplus64: What about the Ancient Greeks? Egyptians? They of all things did NOT believe in the Bible.
MPX: Thanks for the link! Will read now :)
MPX: No
Nevtus: MPX: you'd probably like Descartes, he was a believer in god too
MPX: They worshipped the lesser god
MPX: There is a place in the bible where there is a table that is talked about
mikeplus64: What would members of other religions think about it? They would think that you are worshipping the 'lesser god'.
MPX: and how many of the judges sat around the tables (the higher angels)
MPX: and they all had the faces of animals
MPX: Seem familiar?
MPX: Anyway, I'm off to read :) Ill check him out Nevtus! Cheers m8 :D
MPX: But one thing I'll agree on...the bible is based on alot of trust
MPX: Nobody knows if god truly is loving if he exists
mikeplus64: That doesn't prove anything ( but then again it seems you're partially agnostic to Christianity so I'm guessing, I may be wrong, that you'll respond that you don't know ). I wrote down when I was young that clouds were giant mashmallows, does that make it true? No.
MPX: he might be evil towards us
MPX: Thing is
MPX: God can kill in the name of love, and it would be love
MPX: Because god is all powerful, anything that god does and god decides
MPX: Is.
mikeplus64: What purpose would an all-knowing god have for thinking? ( to make decisions/judgements )
MPX: God could torture us and if god said that was love, it was love
MPX: God made the definition of love
mikeplus64: Right.
MPX: Well none really
MPX: It says in the bible that everything that is happening under the sun
MPX: Has happened under the sun
MPX: Thus, nothing is new
MPX: the future is the past or something
MPX: You might wonder why God was able to predict Judas for example
mikeplus64: So everything, even other religions that conflict entirely, is part of this god's plan?
MPX: I think free will is a myth
MPX: If we are all math, and the universe is all math
MPX: It can be put together to create a formula
MPX: Hence destiny is created
mjr: (an opinion isn't objective just because it's some hypothetical god's, by the way)
MPX: But then again, some would disagree with me :)
MPX: mikeplus64: you might say that. Gods plan was to let the devil rule, and the devils plan was the religion confuseness.
MPX: But if god knew already, it was all gods plan
MPX: so is god evil?
MPX: :) One of many questions
hylas: no, his fiction
MPX: But I want to read now :D
MPX: Another bright answer hylas
mjr: Certainly Yahweh is an evil character as described in the Bible
MPX: Bravo
MPX: Evil to us
MPX: But then again, incest was okay before
MPX: Now it's not, it's not natural
MPX: God decides what is and what isnt
MPX: In my opinion
mjr: no, everyone decides
MPX: I don't think anything is evil in gods eyes
mjr: opinions are subjective, even God's
mjr: as I said
MPX: You're breaking god down to a human level
mikeplus64: What? Why would an all loving god's plan want the devil to rule?! The devil is by even this god's flexible definitions of things absolutely not something that he would want to roam around and rule.
MPX: God is not human
MPX: if god would exist
MPX: Hence god does not think like a human
mjr: MPX, no, I'm not.
MPX: and you do not think like god
s_20: from "STEAM ON LINUX CONFIRMED" to theological discussions, i am in awe.
MPX: mikeplus64: beats me :)
mjr: doesn't matter how one thinks, it doesn't make opinions truths
MPX: Theory is though
MPX: That when the bet was made
mikeplus64: What bet?
MPX: The devil said, okay old man I'm gonna prove that the humans dont need you
MPX: You know
MPX: THe good old question of who will mankind follow
MPX: Heres the theory
MPX: God let it happen because he knew he had to earn the trust of his angels (Why? I don't know...may be because angels are more like humans)
MPX: God could say
MPX: Ok, I know this isnt gonna work
MPX: But that would prove nothing
MPX: So, god gave the thumbs up
MPX: Like a teacher asks a student to do his own wrong version of a math equation on the blackboard
MPX: been there done that
MPX: It's to teach a lesson and to show it to the whole class
MPX: But yeah
MPX: Steam on linux is confirmed! :D
Azalyn: MPX: assuming that god exists is far more unreasonable that assuming he doesnt. your illogical notion of "we don't know everything, therefore it's certainly possible that god exists" is really quite ludicrous.
MPX: And theres a reason why the devil got so many angels on his side
Azalyn: you could say the same of any stupid belief.
MPX: Demons = old angels
mikeplus64: That's the theory?
MPX: By all means Azalyn
Azalyn: "we don't know everything, therefore it's possible that santa claus could exist"
MPX: Your claims is as dumb as mine
mikeplus64: What basis does it have or did someone just pull it out of their ass so to speak?
MPX: I'm not claiming god exists though
MPX: And certainly
MPX: We don't know jack shit :)
Azalyn: actually, no. i make no claims. however there is a reasonable way to approach life, and an unreasonable way.
MPX: And no
MPX: I've never said that it's most certainly possible that god exists
MPX: I say that I find it very arrogant to think we're alone
Azalyn: you approach life with the knowledge you have, and you make the best of it.
MPX: One way or another, god or aliens or whatever you want to call it
mikeplus64: I think it's very arrogant to think that we're not alone.
MPX: Sure, we all do
mikeplus64: :P
MPX: Does your faith control your life?
MPX: No
MPX: Does mine? No
MPX: I think these days, more and more people ask the question, are we alone
Azalyn: everything we know tells us that a god can't exist. and to use god as an explanation for the universe's complexity, when god would have to be far more complex to have created it, is clearly circular reasoning, because then what created him?
MPX: We're only just know figuring out how big the universe is
MPX: It would be arrogant to claim that we are not
MPX: *that we are
MPX: sorry :D
MPX: Why's that Azalyn?
MPX: Because of...the evolution theory?
Azalyn: wasting your life on "what ifs" gets you nowhere.
MPX: I don't waste my life
MPX: I have a brain
MPX: I can do more then two things at once
Azalyn: we build on the knowledge we have.
MPX: You know, I can think about these things and still decide what to have for dinner
MPX: Most people can
mikeplus64: I mean alone god-wise, not whatever it was you were thinking. ;)
MPX: Stop being so arrogant
MPX: The bible does not neglect the evolution theory
MPX: In fact
MPX: It does not neglect much
MPX: Prove me wrong
MPX: Christians and the likes do not equal the bible
MPX: If they did, we'd only have on religion
MPX: You listen to those christians and tell me I should stop wasting my life
mikeplus64: Either evolution occurred over 7 days or plants survived for thousands if not more years with no sunlight.
MPX: But you aren't entitled to until you read the bible yourself
MPX: Until then
mikeplus64: I'm sorry but they are not plants if that's the case.
MPX: goes onto wikipedia...finally...to read what Nevtus gave to him
Azalyn: MPX: the problem is that you are trying to take the position of an open-minded individual, but in the end, there is no rational basis for a neutral pov on this issue. you either believe in fairy tales or dont. people give religion a 'get out of jail free' card when other beliefs would typically be frowned upon.
Azalyn: like belief in santa claus, etc
MPX: You know whats a fairy tale?
MPX: That we live on a planet among billions
mikeplus64: I have read the bible ( King James version? Something like that ), it was a while ago, but I have. :P
MPX: The universe has an end
MPX: We are in a solar system, among billions of others
MPX: and we are stupid enough to think we are alone
MPX: And we can't reach beyond the moon
Azalyn: i don't think anyone believes they are 'alone'
MPX: THAT Azalyn. THAT is stupidity
MPX: And as I said earlier
Azalyn: most scientists accept that alien life must exist somewhere.
MPX: God means higher power
MPX: It could be anything out there
MPX: get your facts straight please before coming to me with an attitude, I will tear you down
MPX: Well that is, if you want to discuss the bible
MPX: But I don't. I've spent the last hour doing it and you joined the party too late
Azalyn: you couldn't even tear your way out of a paper bag, never mind tear someone else down. :)
MPX: Some scientists also say that the bible was inspired by alien meetings
MPX: Who knows?
MPX: Yeah good one sport
MPX: Keep believing that :)
mikeplus64: Some scientists are completely nuts. :P
MPX: These days, there are more atheist nuts the christian nuts
MPX: :p
Azalyn: the problem is "who knows" is a stupid question. we should not be asking such questions. we should be focusing on questions that we have the capacity and potential to answer.
MPX: Yes, and thats why people reached for the stars
mikeplus64: Some scientists are completely nuts. :P
MPX: Oh I just bet you are the real inventor! :D
mikeplus64: Oops pressed up on the arrow key thingo.
Azalyn: questions that have no immediate answer may be interesting in philosophical senses, but when it comes to science, we have to know our limits, and focus on what we can do, and build upon that to better ourselves.
mikeplus64: Azalyn++
MPX: Hey theres a saying that you shouldnt read about all the stuff you know
MPX: But focus on the stuff you dont know Azalyn
MPX: It's a famous saying, you should try it
MPX: That's how you figure things out
MPX: In the meanting, Who knows?
MPX: Some like bug fixing, some likes implenting feautures
mikeplus64: Well no one will know if everyone just says "Who knows?".
MPX: Some like the 2.4 kernel...
Azalyn: you misread what i said. i said that we should focus on things that we *can* answer, not things that we already *know*
MPX: We should focus on the things we CANT answer
MPX: so that we one day may have an answer
MPX: That's why people are ...oh I don't know...researching on cancer and stuff
mikeplus64: If we absolutely can't then there is no point. If we are unsure of whether we can't then maybe there is.
MPX: Trying to find that immortality gene and stuff
Azalyn: actually, the people researching cancer are doing what i said. not what you are saying.
MPX: and ps: I would not tear my way out of a paper bag
MPX: A paper bag would have a hole
MPX: Silly guy, look up :P
MPX: actually
MPX: They are trying to figure out the questions and the answers
Azalyn: they know their limits, and are working on things that they know are possible.
mikeplus64: People researching cancer do not know whether or not they are doing something futile, they know they have a chance of doing something worthwhile however.
MPX: But I would never be as arrogant as to claim the prize
MPX: Saying that they are doing what "i' said
MPX: One things for sure
Azalyn: we know that it is possible to kill cancer. the trick is killing it without killing the individual as well. so it isn't something "impossible", and we know this. it is more like a puzzle. that we are trying to figure out.
MPX: If you discuss with someone...yer gonna come a long way without an attitude
MPX: May hit a brick wall with one though
Azalyn: what you are suggesting, is that we sit here, and talk about whether a god "could" exist "somewhere"
Azalyn: "somehow"
MPX: Azalyn: we don't know that :)
MPX: We think we know that, and we have theories
Azalyn: even though such a thing would not change things in the slightest.
MPX: Azalyn: Perhaps. People do share thoughts you know
MPX: Have done that for thousands of years
MPX: Good things have come out of it...Like equal rights
MPX: Dude, you are failing on this convo on so many levels
Azalyn: yes... and for thousands of years, 'sharing' religion has been one of the greatest causes of war, death, and suffering in general.
MPX: I know you won't admit it and give me some smartass remark but whatever
MPX: I'm going to read about the evil dæmon now
mikeplus64: MPX: Not exactly on topic at this very moment but: The Bible of all things isn't exactly a promoter of equal rights. ( women, homosexuals come to mind )
Nevtus: religion was never about equal rights
MPX: mikeplus64: It is
MPX: It says to never judge
Azalyn: aren't you the one making smartass remarks? you are the only one making personal attacks here.
MPX: Not gays not hookers
MPX: In fact, did you read the part where jesus praised a hooker?
mikeplus64: That doesn't mean anything for equal rights at all.
MPX: Well
MPX: If by not judging
MPX: I would call that equal rights
MPX: If you don't judge, you treat people as equals
mikeplus64: This god has made the judgements already in the Bible.
MPX: Sure, it says so too
MPX: But it's not for man to judge
Azalyn: dude, are you kidding me? women's status in the bible is inferior to men. how can you possibly talk about the bible as if it preaches equal rights with a straight face?
Azalyn: are you trolling?
mikeplus64: And of course you are supposed to obey what the Bible says.
mikeplus64: The punishment for rape comes to mind, is that really equal rights?
MPX: and hey if you want to call god evil for wanting to slay homosexuals...though...it states men sleeping with other men....not a man loving another man...anyway it doesnt matter
MPX: I won't disagree with ya
Azalyn: god says at one point *literally* that men are above women. and also says he shall not permit a woman to speak in 'his house' (church)
MPX: Just to cut in
MPX: God says that man is the head of the family
MPX: Man is the builder
MPX: Man is still the builder
MPX: Thus, man is the natural leader
Azalyn: not to mention that in the bible, if a woman is raped, she is either put to death along with the rapist, or *forced* to marry him.
MPX: And I ain't talking to you
MPX: Actually no
MPX: The rapist is to be stoned
MPX: But then ofcourse
Azalyn: with the rapist having to pay the father for soiling the father's "property"
mikeplus64: At some point in the Bible it gives a monetary value to adult men, women and young boys and girls in silver shekels.
Nevtus: I thought the woman got stoned
MPX: They didnt practice that back then
MPX: But that does not mean the bible said it was okay
MPX: Afterall, the bible spoke of false prophets
mikeplus64: The rapist pays 50 silver shekels to the father then marries the victim.
MPX: Jesus even saved a woman from getting stoned
Azalyn: now you're moving the goalposts. we're not talking about what they practiced (i would still argue that it *was* practiced, but that is besides the point)
MPX: Why the hell would he do that if the bible teached otherwise
MPX: As I said Azalyn
mikeplus64: So you're saying that we should all believe in the Bible even though we know some of it may/will be false?
Azalyn: the point is, you're talking about equal rights
MPX: There are two kinds of people
MPX: The religious ones, trying to force their opinion about god onto you
MPX: And the atheist ones, trying to force their disbelief onto you
Azalyn: but the bible is the worst book you could possibly quote for equal rights... heh
MPX: Both are JUST as bad
MPX: So please man
MPX: Show some respect and drop it
MPX: I never said I was christian
mikeplus64: I don't recall anyone ever saying that you were.
Nevtus: atheism is about logic, not faith
MPX: mikeplus64: I aint saying anything
MPX: I've read it, that's all
Azalyn: that's just your problem though, you're the one trying to act superior with your "neutrality" and hollier-than-thou NPOV attitude.
MPX: Thats a load of crock
MPX: Even scientists have faith
MPX: Not in god, but in science and the fruits...heres the best part...it MIGHT bring
Nevtus: MPX: faith has nothing to do with their work or method
Azalyn: it gives you an ego trip to feel like you have the ultimate solution, and you have it all figured out, and that everyone who takes a "side" is an idiot.
Azalyn: heh
MPX: Azalyn: Where I come from theres a law thats called Jante Loven
MPX: it goes like this
MPX: Don't believe your shit
mikeplus64: So what about scientists? Anyone can 'have faith'.
MPX: Don't believe you know better then anybody
MPX: Don't believe you can do better then anybody
MPX: Catch the drift?
MPX: I don't believe in that law
MPX: Yes I know the bible
Nevtus: you seem to think you know better
Azalyn: don't worry, we atheists have you agnostics figured out. ;)
MPX: That don't make me a bitch
MPX: Nevtus: I know the bible better then most yes
MPX: I'm sure if you read the lord of the rings books
MPX: You'd know tha tshit better then me
MPX: And Azalyn...psychiatrists have you nut jobs figured out a long time ago too
mjr: I'd say science has already pretty much proven it can bring quite tasty fruit
MPX: thanks to science :)
Nevtus: MPX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
mikeplus64: MPX: If you can't be bothered to click the link Nevtus gave you: attack the argument not the arguer.
MPX: mikeplus64: Just repaying
MPX: He called me an agnostic, which I'm not
MPX: saying he had me figured all out
MPX: Basically, he tried to insult me
MPX: When somebody swings at me, I tend to swing back
Nevtus: that's what Jesus taught, oh wait
MPX: Yeah
MPX: But then again, I never said I believed the bible and what jesus taught either
Azalyn: yes, we are totally insane. how dare we try to get society to approach problems and conflicts in a rational manner, instead of allowing people to use fairy tales and superstition as a justification for their actions... even when said actions can affect the lives of billions of people and have dangerous ramifications.
MPX: Now I'm going to read about the dæmon
MPX: and you Azalyn: rant all you like
mikeplus64: MPX: I must say, that if you accept that there /may/ or /may not/ be a god then you are indeed agnostic, it's not an insult.
mikeplus64: Feel free to substitute "accept" with "believe"
MPX: I never said that
MPX: I just raised the question
MPX: To get input, as to what you guys think
MPX: I believe we're not alone. That's it
Nevtus: it's a description. Calling someone an agnostic isn't really an insult unless you hate the idea of sitting on the face
Nevtus: rof
riisen: God rocks, cuz without him there would be no boobs and beer :<
Nevtus: *fence
MPX: I know, but he made it as an insult
Nevtus: not sitting on the face. wtf I'm I thinking about
Azalyn: MPX: weren't you the one to throw the first stone? when you said earlier that you would "tear" me down?
Nevtus: must be evil thoughts creeping into my non-believer mind
MPX: I like to listen as to what people believe in. Not to tell them otherwise, like Azalynis trying to tell me that it's ridicoulus of me to "believe"
MPX: I like user input :)
MPX: Dude
MPX: You gave me the attitude of a whimpy girl (not an insult...whimpy girls have attitude)
MPX: I also said
MPX: To get far in a discussion, you shouldnt bring attitude
MPX: You might hit a brick wall
MPX: You know, things tend to bounce of a brick wall
MPX: I love a dialouge, not a fight
Azalyn: I had said nothing offensive to you before that point (and still haven't actually, i did make a few passive aggressive passes, but none contained anything like your attacks towards me, you used direct attacks like "nut job" and what not)
mikeplus64: MPX: I don't believe that it's likely that we are "alone" in this unfathomably large universe, just that you were implying that the 'other' life in this universe could be 'gods' and that is what I think is silly.
MPX: mikeplus64: Your opinion and I respect that
MPX: I'm just taking the literal word GOD , which means higher power
Nevtus: a discussion should be about the topic, not the people or silly insults directed at said people
MPX: if anything out there exists and is more powerful then us, they would be "gods" to us
Azalyn: attitude...? man, talk about grasping at straws.
MPX: (Trying to explain my view if I didnt make myself clear)
Nevtus: so you think gods are aliens?
Azalyn: is "you had an attitude" just a way of saying you couldn't take the heat? heh
MPX: [12:11:12] MPX: assuming that god exists is far more unreasonable that assuming he doesnt. your illogical notion of "we don't know everything, therefore it's certainly possible that god exists" is really quite ludicrous.
MPX: Hmm...yeah...I don't know
MPX: I see attitude and somebody using my logic
MPX: While telling me my logic is stupid
MPX: Nevtus: doesn't alien mean stranger?
Wipster: I love the enter key as punctuation
Azalyn: Nevtus: as i understand, he's a "what if"-tard. like "anything is possible" and so on. "anything is possible so we should never EVER say that someone is a loon, even if they believe that they're receiving coded messages from tau ceti"
MPX: Sorry Wipster, never was really good at school...I'm learning :)
MPX: And yeah.....Speaking of honouring the argument
MPX: Nice going called me a tard there...not subtle enough
Azalyn: it's a common suffix. i've referred to myself even as a freetard before, in this very channel i believe.
Azalyn: for my support of opensource.
MPX: That doesn't mean you should apply it on others
MPX: I might hit myself on the forehead
MPX: I don't hit others on the forehead if they do something dumb :P
MPX: Anyway, Nevtus: does not Alien just mean stranger?
Nevtus: 'tard has negative connotations
MPX: And if God means higher power, wouldn't god be an alien then? I'm just asking
Nevtus: MPX: it means foreign
Azalyn: oh... you want to force your opinion on me now? that i shouldn't use language the way i want to?
MPX: Ah right
MPX: Yes Azalyn
Azalyn: how interesting.
MPX: Inside my sentences, I'm also calling you out
MPX: Trying to make you pay me one hundred dollars
giselher: I like beer.
MPX: Nevtus: so if Alien means Foreign, and god means higher power...and since we are the highest power we know of...would that not make god an alien?
MPX: Just..technically speaking :)
giselher: Alien doesn't sound bad to me :)
Azalyn: by your logic, if we were to have the same power as these 'aliens' ... then we would be gods too...
meGenius: who tried fc13??
Azalyn: if we reached that level one day.
MPX: And if there were aliens out there, and they had more power then us, wouldn't their leader be a god?
MPX: I'm just asking Azalyn
Nevtus: aliens aren't omnipotent, they wouldn't be gods in the true definition of the word
MPX: I might wonder about those things too
Azalyn: only if their leader's power is over nine thousand.
giselher: lol
MPX: Sorry Nevtus, english is my third tounge...what does omnipotent mean?
s_20: all powerful
MPX: Ah..
MPX: But if the bible states a one true Allmighty god
Azalyn: god is also supposed to be omniscient though. at least the biblical god.
MPX: They might be gods, even thou they are not all powerful right?
Azalyn: which means he's also "all knowing"
s_20: and omnipresent
s_20: lots of omni for one god
MPX: omni...sounds like something you'd call a good chocolate bar
MPX: But hthat is if you follow the logic that there is only one God right?
MPX: leaving out that god means higher power
Nevtus: Omnibenevolence - all-good too
MPX: and leaving out the allmighty god
MPX: Just one god right?
giselher: there is an infinite amount of god
Azalyn: there is no logic here.
Nevtus: all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good == god
Nevtus: that's the definition
MPX: I've read that God means higher power
Azalyn: and he's a total asshole to boot.
Nevtus: the all-good bit is obviously a bit shaky given all the killing :P
Azalyn: it's ok Nevtus, those mother fuckers were totally asking for it.
MPX: *Shrugs*
MPX: I just wish we had reached into space before I was born...and I'm not talking about the moon landing
MPX: :)
Azalyn: like those children that god massacred because the kids made fun of a elisha's bald head.
Azalyn: (elisha was a prophet of god)
MPX: I feel like I'm going to miss out...all the research on traveling thru black hole and whatnot
Azalyn: -a
MPX: I feel like i'm going to be dead and buried before anything happenes...
Azalyn: ... are you sure you don't mean wormhole?
Azalyn: :|
MPX: Yes
MPX: They've talked about the black hole
mikeplus64: They?
MPX: Unless I'm missing out on something
Azalyn: i don't think you'd want to be anywhere near a black hole.
MPX: Well...articles written by people
Nevtus: a black hole would kill you
Azalyn: much less 'travel' towards/into it.
MPX: You know, you often use the term "They"
MPX: I know Azalyn and Nevtus
MPX: Doesnt stop them from researching on it though
Nevtus: well, you wouldn't know it was there due to it sucking up all the light around it
Azalyn: a black hole and wormhole are two separate things.
Azalyn: that are unrelated
MPX: Yes
Azalyn: a black hole isn't even a 'hole' at all.
Azalyn: it's an incredibly dense point of mass.
MPX: It's like a fat lady having a go ontop of a dwarf
MPX: sorry, couldn't help it
MPX: Linux talk anyone?
Azalyn: steam linux confirmed. etc.
MPX: Yeah penguins and stuff
MPX: :)
Wipster: please, about 'bout that clang ehh mmmmmm
MPX: michaellarabel was in earlier
Nevtus: would god use Linux?
MPX: Saying that he was confident that steam was coming
Nevtus: ./start-flood
MPX: He had his sources
MPX: He might reveal some big info on linux tag that hes sitting on
MPX: Well, that's what he said
meGenius: Nevtus: unless He can't do that without a computer
Nevtus: tux died for our sins
Azalyn: i want them to announce it before apple's conference.
MPX: I hate apple ...
MPX: That is
meGenius: Azalyn: why??
MPX: I don't like mr jobs
MPX: Dude is the satan!
Nevtus: well, eve DID take the apple
meGenius: MPX: steve is a nice guy
MPX: Demon!
Azalyn: meGenius: because i want people to know that there will be a linux version out, before jobs goes on stage and starts bragging about how the mac is now an awesome gaming platform or some bullshit.
mikeplus64: MPX: Respect him too. ;)
mikeplus64: *Steve Jobs that is*
MPX: Jobs may be a nice guy on the personal side...I don't know
Nevtus: is this apple conference today?
MPX: I don't like him business wise
meGenius: Azalyn: you are right!
Azalyn: i don't know when the apple thing is.
meGenius: MPX: you can't say that jobs is a bad CEO
Azalyn: it's called wwdc i think. "world wide developer conference"
MPX: I find it surprising Jobs didnt make them call it iSteam =D
MPX: He's not...he makes lots of money
Nevtus: I was watching a documentary about hackers (the original use of the word) last night and apparently Steve and Woz got arrested once while trying to blue box a payphone
MPX: He's just too power hungry for my taste :D
MPX: Nevtus: yeah I've heard something similar too :D
meGenius: Nevtus: that's too old story :D
MPX: I won't ever forget the mugshot of Bill Gates though
MPX: It was like
Nevtus: yeah, it's kinda funny still though
MPX: I'm such a nerd, and I got busted...this is priceless
MPX: You could see he had a little smile in the shot
Azalyn: Nevtus: what documentary?
MPX: "My friends won't ever believe me"
Nevtus: Azalyn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnI0ndIF6BI
Azalyn: i saw that in "pirate's of silicon valley"
Azalyn: if you like that kind of stuff
Azalyn: look up the bbs documentary
Azalyn: and watch that
Azalyn: :)
Azalyn: i'd also recommend pirate's of silicon valley, which isn't a documentary, but an actual film about the growth of apple/microsoft in the early days.
MPX: Screw that
Azalyn: also, "revolution os", a documentary about linux and it's growth.
MPX: I want documentaries on beos
MPX: :(
Nevtus: yeah I've seen Revolution OS, it's a good one
MPX: I've probably seen most of whats on beos on youtube
MPX: and amiga...
Nevtus: it's interesting to see RMS and Linus visibily riff on each other
neorazorx: Valve will release Half life 2 on OSX today ... what about Linux?
MPX: Never liked the game Linus
MPX: such a dorky name....
Nevtus: you don't like Linus's name?
MPX: Not saying my name is great
MPX: But you wouldnt call someone labbaree the third
MPX: From where I'm from (scandinaiva)
MPX: Linus is a common one
MPX: But also regarded kinda dorky :)
MPX: You know, some people generalize on name...
Nevtus: so are they going to play the Half Life 2 1984 style ad to the audience at the mac conference? That'll be ironic
MPX: Prison names, geek names and the like
MPX: Too true Nevtus :D
neorazorx: http://store.steampowered.com/video/220/5724
Nevtus: the original 1984 apple ad is actually pretty scary given what apple now represent
MPX: The sad part is, if they do show the ad, nobody there will probably find it ironic :p
Nevtus: they are the faithful party members, of cource they won't find it ironic. They love Steve after all
MPX: Fanboys will always think "theyr" company should recieve gold and glitter
MPX: true true
MPX: I find it weird when a man....loves another man....just because he makes a product you enjoy. I don't love IE the ceo of...let's say...Toyota
MPX: And I never did get the whole collar thing
Nevtus: :S
MPX: The black polo sweater...
Nevtus: get the iLube
MPX: My mom used to want to dress me up like that before school...I told her the guys would beat me up before I had even reached school
MPX: Hahahaha that's funny :)
MPX: is away
giselher: No UT3 for Linux :( http://www.games4mac.de/content_g4m/meldung.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=8107
Modplan: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Microsoft-release-open-source-Outlook-PST-tools-1007989.html
giselher: Modplan: This site looks exactly like heise.de :D
giselher: but in english instead of german
Modplan: that's pretty much what it is as far as I know
Modplan: it was originally heise in english too but they rebranded
giselher: ah :D
Modplan: they have a really awesome "kernel log" feature where they go into all the changes being made to the latest kernels
tkmorris: Galaxy|: I couldn't e-mail gabe
tkmorris: tested 3 addresses
Sleepy_Coder: hmm funkeh.
Sleepy_Coder: I hate nothing but potato salad for a whole week, drank only pepsi and iced peach tea, lost 12 pounds.
Sleepy_Coder: I am going to have so much fun exploring this craving.
giselher: I am from Austria and If download a game with Steam Is that game censored like the German version or do I get an uncensored version?
Ivanovic: giselher: this is a question that you should ask valve!
wirechief: anyone have good/bad experience with latest gigabyte Motherboards ?
giselher: thanks Ivanovic
Ivanovic: wirechief: got a P35-DS3 over here and no problems with it, it "just works"
Ivanovic: (okay, i have not tried the onboard sound, but the rest does work
wirechief: nice.. does that have usb3 ?
Ivanovic: so far i only had good experiences with gigabyte boards
Ivanovic: nah, this one is *ancient* regarding current stuff, no pcie 2.x and the likes
wirechief: im thinking gigabyte too, just wondered if they still have a good reputation.
Ivanovic: intel board based on the P35 chip (current is the P55, IIRC)
wirechief: my current board is getting grey hair and am thinking of replaceing it.
wirechief: 1.4ghz processor
wirechief: my problem (if you can call it a problem) is i have too many Desktops with them all being old
Ivanovic: hmm, my laptop has a 1.5ghz cpu
wirechief: is it a netbook?
Ivanovic: (okay, a low voltage core2 duo)
wirechief: ah, ok.
Ivanovic: so yeah, 1.5ghz can still be fine, even these days
Ivanovic: ;)
wirechief: hehe.
Ivanovic: okay, if it was a 1.4ghz p4: an upgrade would probably make lots of sense!
Ivanovic: :)
wirechief: yes it is.
Ivanovic: outsch
wirechief: i have a gateway dx4300, the motherboard went out, i decided to let the warranty take care of repairing and watched the mb replaced
wirechief: its really not a bad operation now days.
Ivanovic: you still have warranty on such an ancient device?
Ivanovic: wow!
wirechief: i replaced mb's back in early 90's and they were a pain to change.
Ivanovic: 1.4GHz desktop, this must be some 7 or 8 years old
wirechief: yeah, thats about the age of my giga byte
wirechief: and it still runs, but geeze quad cores are getting pretty cheap now days.
wirechief: im not too happy with the gateway, its like they were in a hurry to build them.
Ivanovic: no idea, i tend to build my computers myself anyway
wirechief: first one died after one month, and now this one dying after only 9 months.
wirechief: yes, i should of done that instead of getting talked into it
wirechief: but parts were about the same price so it was a push for cost
wirechief: but im thinking gigabyte again, sounds like they are still a good board to have.
wirechief: ok thanks for your views... Ivanovic
NigeyUK: The Pac-Man game Google put on its home page gobbled up almost five million hours of work time, suggests a study.
NigeyUK: haha awsome
meGenius: the most awesome is that game gathered $120m from the internet users
meGenius: somebody pulled that game to play it offline :D
giselher: NigeyUK: Saw that already? http://store.steampowered.com/video/220/5724
meGenius: giselher: too old :P
giselher: The best was, that I was eating a sandwich while watching it for the first time :D
NigeyUK: giselher, interesting
Ivanovic: giselher: uhm, and?
Nevtus: Ivanovic: the speech is broken off at the word "sandwich", probably a hint at TF2
NigeyUK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-wdKTNVnO8&feature=channel
NigeyUK: \o/
Nevtus: anyone here used OIS over SDL for an input system?
Wipster: any news on the steam pokers, or has it reached an end on what they can do?
mastertheknife: hey Nigey
NigeyUK: hey mastertheknife !
mastertheknife: Wipster: no one knows anymore
NigeyUK: Wipster, boycott steam ;)
Wipster: lol pish posh
mastertheknife: This is the also why Tel Aviv is far more poular than Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a dead city because of all the religious people that live in it, while Tel Aviv is like a 24/7 running city
mastertheknife: errrrrrrrrrrrrr
mastertheknife: wrong paste
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: http://i.imgur.com/l1TQA.jpg
Wipster: heh
NigeyUK: woohoo nice 1 master :D looking sweet
NigeyUK: shame its windows..lol
mastertheknife: thats the program im coding
mastertheknife: its almost ready
NigeyUK: awsome ! :D:D
mastertheknife: heh next project will be linux\qt4 probably but no idea what to do\code
NigeyUK: i may have a few ideas there ;)
mastertheknife: heh ill finish one first then :)
NigeyUK: suppose i better start putting some content on this steam site then
NigeyUK: btw master, did u install the new beta of qt stuff on linux ?
mastertheknife: no
NigeyUK: ant tried it out, much better than the current stable versions
mastertheknife: I think i have qt 4.4.6
NigeyUK: took 4 hours to compile mind..lol
mastertheknife: 4.5.3 and some 4.6.0 actually
NigeyUK: think it was 4.6.2
meGenius: who think that the humble indie bundle failed??
meGenius: http://www.elecorn.com/caster3d
meGenius: all the companies is doing the same now :D
NigeyUK: tell a lie it was 4.7
NigeyUK: http://qt.nokia.com/about/news/betas-of-qt-4.7-and-qt-creator-2.0-now-available
NigeyUK: meGenius, thats gotta be a good thing ? :D
meGenius: NigeyUK: since we are getting the games for the price we want, why not :D
meGenius: i just bought it for $1
NigeyUK: haha sweet!
The_Muh: omfg... sheldon likes ubuntu oO
The_Muh: (sheldon cooper, big bang theory)
NigeyUK: lol ello muh
The_Muh: i though sheldon uses somethin like slackware
The_Muh: hi NigeyUK
mastertheknife: you know it when you write code and look at it 1 year later and barely understand anything
mastertheknife: heh
giselher: Why is sandwich a hint for TF2?
NigeyUK: http://www.steamonlinux.com/?p=41
NigeyUK: be nice on me, imnot a journalist..lol
s_20: NigeyUK: it's "its" ;)
NigeyUK: oh dam, spellchecker didn't pick that up lol, cheer, will run through it again now
s_20: and it's "too" :P
s_20: (again, no offence, i'm glad someone is doing this)
NigeyUK: :d none taken, im not to good with grammar etc, glad someone is taking the time to check it over :)
s_20: and a couple of missing apostrophes, but i guess that really is minor in this day and age ;)
NigeyUK: lol oki, thanks dude, ill update now.
s_20: i can't tell you anything about formal english grammar either, all i can tell you is whether it looks right or wrong to me :)
Nevtus: NigeyUK: perhaps the Phoronix irc chat mention should be a link to http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=irc or even http://www.steamonlinux.com/?page_id=10
NigeyUK: ahh dammit i thought i did that link
Nevtus: a copy of the disclaimer should maybe be in the footer too
NigeyUK: doing that now, have to edit the php file directly to add it :(
Nevtus: can't you use the workpress theme editor thing?
NigeyUK: yeah but i dont want the folder that contains the theme files world writeable, so ill edit them manually
Nevtus: it's probably quicker to do it with vim/ssh too
NigeyUK: yup, much!
NigeyUK: hm wonder if i can embed php into a wp page
xorl: yep, you can.
NigeyUK: oh thats great :D
NigeyUK: hey xorl btw :)
xorl: hows it? still having fun with your WP?
NigeyUK: haha id defo not call it fun, but going ok i think
Kano: hi michaellarabel
Gear0: So if the Steam Linux Client goes into "closed" beta testing, how do they choose who will be able to take part? and what can I do to possibly be selected?
NigeyUK: no idea :(
Kano: if that happens it will be most likely like the mac variant
RambJoe: they did that on mac
RambJoe: had sign upp on site
Gear0: but how do you get to be a closed beta tester, just first come first serve?
Gear0: or do they select prominent forum users or people they like or something.
Kano: or add a hash sum on the date+login and sort it ;)
RambJoe: you had to upload system info file
RambJoe: think it was only sent to like news peopkle
Kano: http://www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/ati-driver-installer-10-5-x86.x86_64.run
Kano: out now
RambJoe: do they work on 10.04
Kano: if you cant wait to try it, copy it to /usr/src
RambJoe: ok thanks whats that do lol
Kano: and run my script with: DISPLAY= sudo sh install-fglrx-debian.sh -zv 10-5
Kano: will update it soon
RambJoe: ok thanks
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/install-fglrx-debian.sh
Kano: version override should be fine
Kano: basically you do not even need to dl it before
Kano: will do my script as well
Kano: as it is on the normal postition
Lazy^: How does ATI work with linux nowdays ?
RambJoe: so i just run script and dont need to donwload
Lazy^: still proplematic ?
Kano: but when you try unofficial releases you have to do that
Kano: RambJoe: with those options yes, then reboot
RambJoe: thanks :)
RambJoe: so that link up there will do the latest ones?
Kano: well the script will get the new pci ids soon too
Kano: then 10-5 will be default
RambJoe: ohh
Kano: done. lets test it ;)
Kano: autopatch for .33/.34 still active
RambJoe: :D
RambJoe: Error: No KANOTIX found. Do not ask for support!
Kano64: Host/Kernel/OS "Kanotix" running Linux 2.6.32-21-generic x86_64 [ Kanotix Excalibur 20090804-12:50 ]
Kano64: CPU Info (1) Intel Core2 Quad Q9300 @ clocked at [ 1999.000 MHz ]
Kano64: (2) Intel Core2 Quad Q9300 @ clocked at [ 2499.000 MHz ]
Kano64: (3) Intel Core2 Quad Q9300 @ clocked at [ 1999.000 MHz ]
Kano64: (4) Intel Core2 Quad Q9300 @ clocked at [ 1999.000 MHz ]
Kano64: Videocard ATI RV710 [Radeon HD 4550] X.Org 1.4.2 [ 1280x1024 ]
Kano64: Processes 177 | Uptime 7min | Memory 385.0/3961.7MB | HDD Size 1160GB (74%used) | GLX Renderer ATI Radeon HD 4550 | GLX Version 3.3.9836 Compatibility Profile Context | Client Konversation 1.1 | Infobash v2.67.1
Kano64: RambJoe: sure i test it first with kanotix
RambJoe: :S
Kano: RambJoe: fglrxinfo working?
RambJoe: yeah thanks :)
RambJoe: OpenGL version string: 3.2.9756 Compatibility Profile Context
RambJoe: is that right
Kano: no
RambJoe: oh
Kano: you did not fetch the latest script
RambJoe: oh did you update it but kept the same url
Kano: the latest will give you 3.3.9836 or 4.0.9836
Kano: sure it will always be the same url
RambJoe: whats the link again
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/install-fglrx-debian.sh
RambJoe: thanks
Kano: use wget -N url
Kano: that will not create backup .X files
dandel: hmm... any ideas on how to fix the cpuinfo? (it's kicking back the wrong frequency)
Kano: so lucid tested too, works there
RambJoe: OpenGL version string: 3.3.9836 Compatibility Profile Context :)
maligor: new drivers?
Kano: RambJoe: now you can try: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/mplayer-vaapi-latest.txt
Kano: sudo sh mplayer-vaapi-latest.txt
maligor: oh, 10.5 hidden in the mirrors
RambJoe: whats this do
Kano: compiles mplayer with vaapi support
RambJoe: ok thanks :)
Kano: i have got scripts for vlc / xbmc too
maligor: RambJoe, is that catalyst 10.5 then?
Kano: sure
RambJoe: think so
dandel: Kano, xbmc has good glsl now
dandel: at least on radeon drivers
maligor: I wonder if they've fixed fbo's
dandel: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=74572 (the patch)
Kano: dandel: i dont think it uses glsl at readon
Kano: dandel: in git yet?
dandel: yes
dandel: it's in the latest revisions of xbmc
dandel: that's just the required fixes for the mentioned revision
Kano: last time i checked it did not find the skin
dandel: anything after that revision has broken scripts and plugins (still hasn't been fixed)
Kano: so thats a patch for the old working one...
Kano: ok, i have got a script for this too ;)
dandel: although, due to the fix for this, it inspired repairs like this: http://trac.xbmc.org/changeset/30591/trunk
Kano: you need to patch that version too for lucid
dandel: lucid, easy
dandel: just undef byte in the libdvd mms whatever it is.
Kano: wget -qO- "http://xbmc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/xbmc/trunk/xbmc/cores/dvdplayer/DVDInputStreams/DVDInputStreamMMS.cpp?r1=27986&r2=28700&view=patch"|patch -p1
Kano: ;)
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/xbmc-latest-working-local.txt
Kano: just add the patch there...
Kano: a dl location would be more easy
Kano: or i have to put it on my server
dandel: will that allow vaapi on xbmc?
Kano: not this
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/xbmc-latest-local.txt
Kano: or
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/xbmc-latest-pvr2-local.txt
Kano: but run the mplayer vaapi script before for the needed depends
maligor: what's pvr2-local?
dandel: 0o' hmm... it's not using all of my cpu
Kano: all local scripts install only in home, on debian/ubuntu the build-deps are fetched as root
maligor: did they merge the pvr-testing2 yet into trunk?
Kano: no
maligor: or master I guess
dandel: kano, can you update the script to dynamically add -j4 to the make builder so it'll turn the app out much faster?
Kano: dandel: time make -j`grep -c ^processor /proc/cpuinfo 2>/dev/null||echo 1`
Kano: what do you think this is
Kano: dandel: for mplayer i patch it
Kano: its in the optimize diff
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/vlc-vaapi-local.txt
Kano: vlc works with vaapi too
Kano: as i dont use gstreamer i dont have got a script for that
Kano: vlc creates a fresh compiled ffmpeg in home too
dandel: kano, just is a bit odd, my cpu wasn't going to max while compiling :/
Kano: with latest x264 too
Kano: dandel: becasue you dont use bfs patched kernel as kanotix does
Kano: for bfs the number of theads should be equal the number of cores
Kano: for cfs you need more threads
maligor: you're shipping bfs?
Kano: even ck with unofficial iso images
maligor: have you benchmarked it on big machines?
Kano: i wanted that pts gets a bfs check, but it was not added
Kano: on my fastest
maligor: I saw some nice benefits on embedded, don't think I ever saw any desktop tests
Kano: usually you get around 5% more speed
dandel: i'm doing a quad core at 3.5ghz
Kano: http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=kano-20557-476-28375
Kano: xeon is my fastest box
Kano: dandel: that should not take more than 60s anyway
dandel: now it's working
dandel: flash was buggered and prevented make from using 4 threads
Kano: it does not matter what else runs
Kano: but flash can occupy one core,thats clear
dandel: where are the latest mplayer deb files generated by your script put at?
Kano: in /tmp/mplayer-vaapi
Kano: together with all depends
dandel: /tmp/vaapi 0o'
Kano: err just /tmp/vaapi for the depends
Kano: and then the mplayer-vaapi subfolder for mplayer
Kano: mplayer -va vaapi -vo vaapi:gl:reflect will look funny
Kano: 10-5 is the first driver to show h264 l4.1 with correct colors
Kano: level 5.1 is still broken
Kano: be sure not to enable vdpau with ati ;)
Kano: otherwise it will crash in xbmc
Kano: i build xbmc with support for both
Kano: to copy the dist dir over to other pcs
Kano: dist/src can be deleted however later
RambJoe: is firefox 4 nightly out
dandel: kano, can you update the latest working to include the radeon glsl patch i mentioned before?
Kano: dandel: i could
Kano: is it in svn too to fetch it from there
dandel: yes
Kano: then give me the link
Kano: similar to the other patch
Kano: i have got already in there
dandel: http://trac.xbmc.org/changeset/28452 (required or else the other shaders don't work)
dandel: http://trac.xbmc.org/changeset/30566 (final fix for the dancing blocks)
dandel: http://trac.xbmc.org/changeset/30565 (also required, 30566 uses this as base)
Kano: are you sure all 3 apply?
dandel: yes
dandel: all 3 do
dandel: 28452 is required for the shaders, like bicubic scaler.
Kano: will try
Kano: but that will not give you vaapi
dandel: i know :/
Kano: only vdpau is supported in latest working
dandel: however, glsl fixing drops cpu usage on most videos down to less than 15% at 1ghz.
Kano: the only interesting videos i watch have bitrates up to 48mbit
dandel: odd 0o' the vlc vaapi gives me no video :/
Kano: resize window
Kano: little error in vlc git
dandel: did and it's a green screen
Kano: using which content?
Kano: well i mainly test those things with nvidia gt220
dandel: h264 avc
Kano: will not work anyway with 5.1
dandel: marks as avc1
dandel: mplayer works just fine with the file tho
Kano: ah
dandel: with vaapi patch
Kano: using vaapi options it told you
dandel: yes
giselher: Is it only me or is the steam forum down?
Kano: well i only need vlc/xbmc for m2ts subs
dandel: although i run mplayer through the front end smplayer (so i had to configure it)
Kano: use it purely
Kano: did you see the effect
dandel: garbled video
Kano: dandel: try vc1
Kano: btw. added the 3 patches
dandel: redownload the script for vlc?
Kano: no
Kano: for xbmc
Kano: i mean
Kano: the 3 lines with |patch -p2
dandel: it's compiling now.
Gnurdux: i think we've already passed the point of "imminent" for a Valve announcement
Gnurdux: are there any recent estimates by anyone in the know for the date of an announcement?
asraniel: yesterday
Nevtus: it was already annouced in another dimension
giselher: lol: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15126984&postcount=71
NigeyUK: lol
asraniel: ah i forgot, the telegraph announced it already
asraniel: linux tacos, same amount of letters! linux confirmed!
dandel: Kano, works properly with the latest patches
giselher: HL2 & EP2 are available for OSX :O
asraniel: already? i only saw the announcement video
giselher: yupe
asraniel: nice
asraniel: the mac people are actualy our beta testers
asraniel: when steam comes to linux, the opengl engine will run nice and smooth
Ivanovic: asraniel: exactly
bnv: hi
asraniel: and i think that as long as the don't have the whole orange box on osx, they won't announce linux. that way they are constantly in the news. no reason to give out too many news at the same time
Ivanovic: not too much is left from the orange box
asraniel: jeah
Ivanovic: there is just cs:s (in beta with the new render engine from the orange box), tf2, dod:s and hl2 dm
bnv: What do you know about the status of the Steam on Linux?
asraniel: so until that is out we need at least a month.
asraniel: bnv: nothing. nobody knows a think
asraniel: *thing
bnv: asraniel, thanks
dandel: odd...
dandel: phoronix test suite won't run on ubuntu 10.04 in gui mode
asraniel: who needs a gui anyway
giselher: bought HL2 :D
Kano: orange box?
giselher: nope don't need TF2 and already have portal
Kano: basically everybody has portal ;)
Ivanovic: giselher: for playing on mac or on windows?
giselher: both :D
giselher: now win7
giselher: HL2 + EP1 + EP2 =16,07 € the orange box costs ~30 €
Kano: michaellarabel:
Kano: checking phoronix-test-suite.diff:
Kano: 23 files changed, 63 insertions(+), 54 deletions(-)
Ivanovic: giselher: i already saw it for some 10€ as retail version!
Ivanovic: ;)
Ivanovic: (yeah, in a local shop)
Ivanovic: giselher: no problem at all finding it for 19,49€ in the nets
Ivanovic: http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/3383507/Half-Life-2-The-Orange-Box/Product.html
Nevtus: I have a retail copy of the orange box, got it for about £13 off amazon
Ivanovic: i won't buy it until a linux version is available
Nevtus: I bought it at the start of the year, before the Steam on Linux thing started to really get going
Nevtus: I'll probably buy some more valve games if it does happen like L4D
RambJoe: i'll buy portal 2
RambJoe: i have most of the new ones anyway though lol
RambJoe: except l4d1
Ivanovic: i got portal
Ivanovic: ;)
RambJoe: yeah that was free lol
RambJoe: i already had it but valve deserve the money
RambJoe: although i dunno if they should get more till they release my linux client
Nevtus: they shouldn't
RambJoe: how do we let them know the reason we're not buying their games though =/
RambJoe: more people are playing css right now taht mw2
maligor: doesn't mean either is any good tho :-P
RambJoe: lol the beta is
RambJoe: although only 126 are playing :(
maligor: the css beta?
RambJoe: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1283764 wow
RambJoe: yeah
maligor: what's so good about it?
RambJoe: http://store.steampowered.com/app/260/
RambJoe: better hitboxes
RambJoe: newer engine, multicore
maligor: so.. how does it make it better?
adrian_broher: it's still the old community...
RambJoe: because you dont get random headshots when aiming the other direction
RambJoe: and it has stats, achievements
maligor: ok.. so they fixed the hitboxes..
RambJoe: that was one of the shitty things about css lol
maligor: no... I don't think it was
RambJoe: what was then
maligor: I think the gameplay was the shitty bit and the kiddies
RambJoe: deport kids to mw2
maligor: ofcourse I had more of a background in AQ2
RambJoe: do you like cs 1.6
maligor: no, I lost interest after CS beta 6 or so
RambJoe: oh
The_Muh: http://scheka.org/files/platform_steamplay.png
The_Muh: just a dream...
Gnurdux: honestly you shouldnt even make things like that
kurros: tux looks like a bowling pin
Gear0: he does, lol
Ivanovic: have you ever considered this?
Ivanovic: tux *is* a bowling pin!
kurros: hehe
Gear0: O.O
The_Muh: f5
scheka: f5 again
The_Muh: looks rly like a bowling pin
scheka: hm looks like gabe
The_Muh: lol
NigeyUK: sooo.. anyone want to help with a few articles for steamonlinux site? :p
Tazer: I would if I wasn't so sure I'd fuck up. Never written anything serious before, ever. also here have this http://images.4chan.org/v/src/1274905069711.jpg
NigeyUK: lol cheers
s_20: NigeyUK: what kind of articles do you want to put there? it's not like there's all that much we know right now ;)
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I might help tomorrow
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: i spent all day cleaning up my room i had a big closet break and now its all messed up.. i put all clothes on my bed etc
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: barely have place to walk :P
NigeyUK: oh crap lol appreciate the help tomoz though, thatd be awsome :D
mastertheknife: heh
mastertheknife: when you clean up mess you find so many old documents
mastertheknife: from 95 etc
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: by the way i see the homepage..
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: its nice :)
NigeyUK: haha yes!
NigeyUK: ohh cheers, another article to put up tomorrow morning, im working on it slowly
mastertheknife: take your time no need to rush :)
NigeyUK: very true, im being careful to check facts aswell
NigeyUK: In our first article we look at why linux can be, with the right support, a viable, profitable 3D Tier 1 gaming platform.
NigeyUK: its gonna be pretty long..lol
giselher: NigeyUK: You should make a proper About page :D
NigeyUK: got someone working on that
NigeyUK: thats going to be a kinda history page to, the background to where we are now, so its going be a few days before that's up.
mastertheknife: heh.
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: A history page is a great idea
Tazer: okay, why does linux randomly log me out of my desktop guys?
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: make sure it includes links to important phoronix articles
mastertheknife: Tazer: LOL
mastertheknife: Tazer: it just takes you back to the login screen?
s_20: Tazer: X is crashing for some reason?
Tazer: Yes!
mastertheknife: Tazer: X must be crashing
Tazer: Is that how X crashes?
Tazer: How do I check why X is crashing
mastertheknife: Tazer: does it logout cleanly or screen turns black and you're at login screen ?
Tazer: it turns black
mastertheknife: Tazer: X is crashing
Tazer: everything shuts down
Tazer: okay how do I check whats wrong then
Tazer: so I can fix it
mastertheknife: Tazer: upload /var/log/Xorg.0.log to pastebin.com
mastertheknife: or 1 actually
mastertheknife: Xorg.1.log
mastertheknife: Wait um im not sure which log file is the right one
s_20: maybe he should just upload both
mastertheknife: Xorg.0.log is current so it wont contain crash information
mastertheknife: Xorg.1.log might be the previous one, or maybe its for 2nd X server
Tazer: http://pastebin.com/AqmGLpRK
s_20: mastertheknife: does it get rotated every time X is restarted
mastertheknife: s_20: I have on my system Xorg.N.log and Xorg.N.log.old
mastertheknife: N from 0 to 3
s_20: Tazer: wait, and you say it only crashes sometimes but X runs?
mastertheknife: thats VT2 so its probably not the right one
mastertheknife: Tazer: try Xorg.0.log.old
Tazer: X runs fine, it crashes maybe once a day like this
mastertheknife: "(--) using VT number 2"
Tazer: Not a particular annoyance but since it just happened while I was raving about how great linux is!
mastertheknife: so Xorg.1. is used when running a 2nd X server
mastertheknife: try Xorg.0.log.old
mastertheknife: Tazer: Well its great.. i personally never had X crash
mastertheknife: well not a crash that i remember of
Tazer: yeah preaching to the choir kinda, I'm totally hooked on Linux :P
mastertheknife: Tazer: try uploading Xorg.0.log.old
mastertheknife: it exists on your machine?
s_20: mastertheknife: i used fglrx back when it was still called ATI, i had lots of crashes :(
Tazer: http://pastebin.com/KNkCvqCh
Tazer: yes
mastertheknife: s_20: I still call it ATI.. AMD just feels weird :P
MPX: dandel: Did they fix the issues with FBO on catalyst 10.5?
mastertheknife: I remember the early ATI days, ATI Rage, etc so its hard to say AMD now
mastertheknife: I even have an ATI Rage 2MB
JEEB: just calls it ATi/AMD
JEEB: (when talking about GPUs)
mastertheknife: Tazer: that one doesn't seem to contain crash
s_20: mastertheknife: mach64! ;)
Tazer: yah
Tazer: yeah*
Tazer: i dunno wtf anymore
mastertheknife: Tazer: what distro are you using btw ?
Tazer: linux mint
mastertheknife: Tazer: generally nvidia is very stable on linux at least here
mastertheknife: suprising to see problems
Tazer: Well
mastertheknife: oh.. no experience with that one
Tazer: It's just Ubuntu
Tazer: with some new themes and lots of green
Tazer: tries to stay more updated and stuff too
Tazer: but anyway
Tazer: I used to have X crash alot on me
dandel: MPX, not sure... what application is having issues?
Tazer: with my old wacom tablet, which was broken and would disconnect/reconnect on its own
MPX: Wine bug: Left 4 dead remember?
Azalyn: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4264353274_2012434a9c_b.jpg / http://www.wattreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/01airwickfreshmatic.jpg
Tazer: I have a new one but that doesn't seem to be an enormous problem
Azalyn: we just got two of those things
Azalyn: for our bathrooms...
dandel: oh, that.
Azalyn: you know what they remind me of? :)
Azalyn: "are you still there...?"
mastertheknife: MPX: hey i'm also playing L4D through wine
Azalyn: they actually have movement sensors. when someone moves in their proximity, they spray air freshener
dandel: the issue is linked to the missing texture formats.
MPX: So, dandel...it's not fixed?
dandel: i can't find the right function in the source to fix this :/
MPX: Oh okay :)
MPX: See...I really NEED steam for linux now :P
mastertheknife: dandel: wine programmer? :)
dandel: no, just a regular programmer that knows how to read specs.
Azalyn: fine, don't comment on my amusing portal-related anecdote. :(
Tazer: it was adorable, Azalyn
dandel: MPX, make a bug report requesting for addition of missing texture formats.
MPX: Well, I joined the bug discussion on wine, cast a vote and all
alexandernst: wants wine-bug 8754 to be fixed!
alexandernst: (apart from having full x64 support, usb support, and...maybe some more things... :p)
pbrook_: hey
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1284030
mastertheknife: rofl
pbrook_: I have a dell studio xps 1645
mastertheknife: this is only because there are fools willing to pay $2500 for a Mac
pbrook_: running an ati radeon 4650
pbrook_: with ubuntu 10.04
alexandernst: I never understood WINE guys. They have that really cool bugs-to-fix-for-version-X.Y. They add bugs and fix them keeping the number of bugs almost the same for years, then when they finally will release another stable version they just move those bugs from X.Y to X.Y+1
pbrook_: and sometimes, compositing works fine with opengl/3d stuff
mastertheknife: alexandernst: Its really not an easy job
pbrook_: but sometimes it doesn't, resulting in flickering of the opengl window
pbrook_: and the opengl box not moving when i move the window
skyhirider: you fix one bugs, and 6 more pop up
mastertheknife: alexandernst: and there is hardly any interest in fixing those bugs, which is why developers are generally lazy when it comes to fixing those bugs
mastertheknife: alexandernst: also, its very hard to fix them, some require reverse engineering windows functions with a debugger etc
MPX: Sounds like Windows Me
MPX: Implent stuff guys, don't fix the old :D
Azalyn: Tazer: i read the backlog, what kind of machine is this?
Tazer: Macbook late 2008
Azalyn: you say you've had non-video related issues in the past? like the tablet disconnecting and such?
mastertheknife: pbrook_: using latest fglrx?
Tazer: Yeah
alexandernst: mastertheknife: I'm not saying that it is, what I'm saying is that they just don't really use the bugs-to-fix-for-next-version page
pbrook_: yeah, as far as I know
Tazer: But this tablet is new and no issues like that thus far
pbrook_: it is the driver the ubuntu installed
Azalyn: heh... it could be a motherboard failure.
Azalyn: motherboard failures usually happen very slow...
Tazer: wat
Tazer: no don't say that ;w;
pbrook_: and it updated when i updated to 10.04 a week or so ago
mastertheknife: alexandernst: Yeah, but they have milestones for big versions like v1.2
Azalyn: it starts with some weird unpredictable issues. and gets worse over time
Tazer: noooooo
Azalyn: the more time passes, the more unstable it becomes
Tazer: how do i have checked motherboard, then
mastertheknife: alexandernst: and because each release has a date.. so if a fix made it inside the code before a release.. nice, if not, it needs to wait for next release
Azalyn: well, there is another possibility, since it's a laptop.
Nevtus: Tazer: does it restart when you disconnect the tablet? My wacom causes X to restart when I unplug the usb
Azalyn: it may be overheating
Azalyn: could be a fan failure.
alexandernst: mastertheknife: what milestones? :s They just said that 1.2 will be released somewhen in the future when quartz or usb support or x64 support or _another_big_bug_ is fixed.
Tazer: oh, maybe!
mastertheknife: alexandernst: One of the milestones for v1.2 for example was XInput2 support but i believe that didn't make it into v1.2
alexandernst: mastertheknife: but still that they have that "1.2 bug to fix"
pbrook_: mastertheknife: any ideas?
Tazer: the macbooks are always said to run hotter than on OS X
Tazer: and I haven't configured the fans yet
Tazer: I'll do that now and see if it keeps happening, thnks
mastertheknife: pbrook_: no sorry.. i'm nvidia user barely know anything about ATI\AMD on linux :/
pbrook_: hmm okay
pbrook_: any suggestions for where i could look?
mastertheknife: pbrook_: you can try #ubuntu and #linux
pbrook_: hmm
pbrook_: is #ubuntu on freenode?
alexandernst: mastertheknife: btw, is it me or WINE is just getting slower (for games) after every release?
Nevtus: yeah
Azalyn: as for "checking" the motherboard, i'm not sure, it's a tricky thing. usually you use low level testing stuff. like memtest, which tests the memory, but since the motherboard interconnects all the components, if there is a problem with it, it will cause errors in memory as well.
mastertheknife: accidently killed irssi lol
Azalyn: if it's a desktop, you usually swap components and test everything by process of elimination
alexandernst: mastertheknife: btw, is it me or WINE is just getting slower (for games) after every release?
mastertheknife: alexandernst: Actually i think DX9 performance greatly improved
Nevtus: on the rc?
alexandernst: mastertheknife: then it's me/my pc
mastertheknife: I remember playing DX9 games 6-12 months ago with just 2-5 fps
mastertheknife: now i get 20-30 fps
Azalyn: like you can run memtest on your macbook, then remove the memory and put it into another laptop, and if the memory tests ok in one laptop and not in the other, then either it's a memory incompatibility (unlikely since you probably got the memory with the laptop), or something else is failing on the board of the other machine.
alexandernst: mastertheknife: anyways, only game that I play on pc is cs 1.6. I was gaming a lot on the pc a few years ago, but not I really enjoy more my ps3.
alexandernst: mastertheknife: I just got tired of all that crap of wine... install... mounting... patching... fixing... debugging...
Nevtus: it's pretty depressing when 30 FPS is an improvment :P
mastertheknife: alexandernst: CS 1.6 (openGL) works so nice over wine, i even have mic working
alexandernst: mastertheknife: On my ps3 is just "buy game" > "insert game disc" > "enjoy"
Tazer: I see
Tazer: thanks
Azalyn: there are some dedicated tools designed to test motherboards.. but that would involve spending money, and i'm not sure how much the tools to diagnose laptops cost.
Tazer: Why would the mother board crash, though?
Tazer: its only like, two years old
asraniel_: mine had a little nearly invisble crack that caused random bit errors on a bus
Nevtus: alexandernst: PS3 games are pretty terrible though and the network play is no where near as easy to use (when it comes to consoles) as Xbox Live
alexandernst: mastertheknife: cs 1.6 has some bugs, and most important, apps used with cs 1.6 don't work (I'm talking about ventrilo, ts2, and an app that is used for making screenshots during matchs)
Azalyn: well, if it's a fan failure, fans and any mechanical components fail very commonly.
Azalyn: if it's actually the board.. there can be many different causes..
mastertheknife: alexandernst: f5 works for screnshots
alexandernst: Nevtus: I can say only "Há!"
mastertheknife: alexandernst: and use skype, it has a linux client
Azalyn: years ago, there were problems in desktop motherboards relating to capacitor failure
alexandernst: mastertheknife: I'm talking about anti-cheat system based on screenshots
RambJoe: cs 1.6 doesn't work for me
mastertheknife: Azalyn: Ah those fake exploding\leaking capacitors :)
RambJoe: id i get it to work i get like literally 1fps
RambJoe: ati ftw
alexandernst: mastertheknife: LOL, that was a good one. You really arent a professional cs player, are you?
mastertheknife: RambJoe: RambJoe really strange, mine is like maxed at 72 fps
mastertheknife: RambJoe: are you using it in OpenGL mode ?
alexandernst: I'm not eighter, but a lot of friends of mine are
RambJoe: yeah
Nevtus: alexandernst: I have both a PS3 and a 360 btw. I'm not just saying that
mastertheknife: alexandernst: I dont play often
RambJoe: well now i dont think i can even make it play
mastertheknife: alexandernst: I dont play in a clan eithr
RambJoe: the menu just freezes and i have to reboot pc
alexandernst: and if I say them "I switch you to linux, but you have to use skype instead of ventrilo" they will just ...kick me in the face
mastertheknife: heh
Azalyn: they weren't 'fake' technically. what i heard is that one company was working on some new type of capacitor... and some other companies stole the plans through industrial espionage.
Azalyn: but the plans were incomplete
Azalyn: they ended up going to market with defective capacitors
RambJoe: they're making vent for linux aren't they
Azalyn: and everyone got screwed.
RambJoe: http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php
Azalyn: i've dealt with a few of those motherboards with bad caps.
Tazer: Apple did that, Azalyn?
alexandernst: Nevtus: I haven't used xbox live (don't have xbox 360), but ps3 online is pretty simple. I don't know why you would say that it's difficult to use :s
Nevtus: alexandernst: MGS4...
alexandernst: Nevtus: I know that xbox has more features and bla bla, but I just don't care about points and stars and so one, I just wanna play online. And my ps3 does that
Azalyn: they usually have similar instability issues. seemingly unpredictable. and the machine appears to function decently, until it starts having weird stability problems. that seem random.
Nevtus: there was about 3 different login accounts to set up
alexandernst: Nevtus: MAG :p
Azalyn: Tazer: no, not apple.
alexandernst: Nevtus: only 1 account (psn account)
Azalyn: this was in the pc market. on typical motherboards
alexandernst: Nevtus: and you use it for everything
Azalyn: i believe apple was still using powerpc back then
Tazer: ah
dandel: mpz, which version of wine are you using?
Azalyn: have you been using that laptop with linux for a long time?
Nevtus: you haven't played MGS4, you need a konami account and a Metal Gear Online account, etc
Tazer: Well, it never crashed in Windows, come to think of it. Or OS X the few times I use it
alexandernst: Nevtus: also I'm pretty sure that xbox has some kind of account system that you must set at first attempt to log in too.
mastertheknife: MPX: have you tried wine 1.1.44
Tazer: I've triple or double booted in varying fashions for about a year and a half now
MPX: am on 1.2ec1
MPX: rc*
alexandernst: RambJoe: Yeah... They are making it since 2005
Tazer: Like a month ago I started using Linux as my completely main system
Azalyn: Tazer: and has it *always* been crashing in linux? or is it a recent problem?
RambJoe: oh lol
Nevtus: alexandernst: the xbox live gamertag system is fully integrated into all the xbox titles. You always use the same name across everything and (apart from the odd EA game) it requires no extra setup
alexandernst: RambJoe: they must be doing it in ASM or something...
Tazer: No, this particular thing I think is more recent
Nevtus: MS is an evil company, but xbox live works well
Tazer: Buuut I'm inclined to think it's because of my graphics tablet which isn't entirely supported in linux yet
dandel: try the latest git
alexandernst: Nevtus: I know, but as I said, I really don't care about gametags, points, stars, etc. I only need to play online and have fun. And setting an account in psn will let me do that (for all games)
Azalyn: i suppose that may be possible... but it's not supposed to cause problems with X crashing...
Tazer: yea, but then again, some wacom tablets make X crash when disconnected
Tazer: my last one did and I think it's alex that also does?
Azalyn: actually, you're right, i think i experienced that problem with my bamboo tablet.
Tazer: right
Azalyn: which is why i decided to just not use it until it gets stable.
Tazer: Bamboo fun?
Tazer: or Bamboo Pen and Touch(new one)
Azalyn: but it usually happens when you disconnect immediately. not like, later on or whatever.
Azalyn: you are suggesting that it just happens randomly
Azalyn: which isn't the same
Azalyn: pen & touch is what i have.
Tazer: No, my tablet was a special case
Tazer: it was slightly broken for me, you see, and when you moved it it would just die and come back to life
Nevtus: alexandernst: unless something has really changed with PSN (like coping live), the system account was never unified into the online presence people use in games and so required no extra login/ToS/etc
Tazer: it was awful on it's own but combined with the fact that it caused X to crash when disconnected, it was unusable
Tazer: That was a bamboo fun
Nevtus: for example, can you use different nicks in different games on PSN?
Azalyn: it's my first tablet, i wanted to give tablets a try. i was playing around in gimp at the time, trying to learn a bit more about image editing.
Azalyn: and i got over-zealous and bought a tablet just on a whim :)
Tazer: c:
Nevtus: if you can, it's still a mess
Tazer: Tablets are really great
Tazer: So the pen and touch crashed X for you?
Azalyn: i do plan to play with it again sometime, when it's more stable.
alexandernst: Nevtus: then it has to be changed, because right now I can login and I can see trophees of all my friends
mastertheknife: tablets are amazing
Azalyn: Tazer: yeah but i wasn't even using a stable driver...
alexandernst: Nevtus: nope, only 1 nick for everything
Tazer: Neither am I right now!
Azalyn: i was using a third party patched driver.
mastertheknife: Tazer: but you should try disconnecting it for a day or two, to see if its the one crashing X
Tazer: Oh
Nevtus: lol, so they ripped off live. awesome
Tazer: yeah
Tazer: guess I'll use the mouse for awhile
Azalyn: yeah but i wasn't even using the "unstable" releases on the linux wacom site. i was using one that was patched by some guys in the ubuntu forums
Azalyn: the patches hadn't even merged upstream yet
Tazer: Ah
Azalyn: even in the unstable branch
Azalyn: so yeah
Tazer: Well, this version is alot more stable
Azalyn: the latest stable release has p&t support now i think.
Tazer: Not exactly
Azalyn: so i might go for that
Tazer: It supports okay(atleast on Lucid) the stylus
Tazer: no touch gestures and I can't even click with the touch yet
Tazer: And of course, the crashing if it's causing it
Azalyn: i think i will wait for them to support the new X servers.
Azalyn: they don't even support x server 1.7 yet
alexandernst: must go. gn *
Azalyn: nevermind 1.8
mastertheknife: haha: http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/epic-fail-crosswalk-fail.jpg
Tazer: I'm using 1.7
Tazer: which might be why it's crashing for me also
Azalyn: 1.8 is a very important release. since it ditches hal and starts using udev for everything. the new version of udev that has all the devicekit functionality merged in.
Tazer: *has no idea*
Nevtus: have you tried using these drivers? - http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/
Tazer: yup
Tazer: those are the main ones
Azalyn: you might also be using the xorg driver. there's actually two drivers. the linux-wacom one, and the xorg one. the xorg one is a fork of the linux-wacom one i believe, and they both 'sync' to eachother periodically.
Nevtus: I've got a wacom bamboo, and everything works more or less as expected
Azalyn: linux-wacom is the more cutting edge one
Tazer: bamboo pen and touch?
Nevtus: yup
Nevtus: oh
Nevtus: what do you mean by touch
Tazer: you can use the pad as a touch area
Azalyn: Nevtus: giant touchpad
Tazer: like itouches or whatnot
Azalyn: :)
Tazer: does yours have a mouse and pen
Nevtus: no I've just got a pen
Nevtus: it doesn't work as a touchpad or anything like that
Tazer: then it's a bamboo pen I guess
Azalyn: i want them to support xinput2
Azalyn: which may solve a lot of these problems
Tazer: the new system wacom used was ridiculously dumb
Azalyn: and make it more hotpluggable.
Tazer: "here have something that only has touch or only has pen"
Azalyn: without having to configure xorg for it
Tazer: "we also have super deluxe pen AND TOUCH"
Nevtus: Tazer: so your wacom doesn't have a pen? :S
Azalyn: right now you have to configure the xorg.conf for it.
Azalyn: rolls eyes
Azalyn: i mean come on. 1998 much?
Tazer: mine has a pen and a touch
Tazer: I bought the priciest one because i am spoiled
Azalyn: earlier xorg releases solved hotplugging for mice and keyboards it seems, but not for tablets. you have to configure it. once configured you could probably hotplug, but yeah, still annoying.
Azalyn: so basically it's hotplug, but not "plug n play"
Tazer: yeah
Tazer: hopefully the tablet support will get betterr
Tazer: better*
Azalyn: is yours the silver one that is bigger?
Azalyn: mine is the smaller black one.
Tazer: It is, only it's black
Tazer: they all come in the two colors
Azalyn: eh!? really?
Tazer: yeah, i think so!
Azalyn: back when i was shopping they didn't seem to have the big one in black
Tazer: All the ones at best buy were black for me anyway
Azalyn: i hate silver, it's ugly.
Tazer: I love silver/black/green
Nevtus: black goes with everything
Tazer: I'm a slytherin I guess
Tazer: nerds
Azalyn: i mean if it's real aluminium that is one thing... then it's just metallic.
Azalyn: and can look nice
Azalyn: like the macbook or whatever.
Azalyn: but when you take *plastic* and make it look silver or aluminium
Azalyn: that is just so lame
Azalyn: and looks terribad.
Tazer: haa
Tazer: is happy with his plain black one
Tazer: c:
Tazer: anyway!
Azalyn: me too. even though i haven't touched it for months :O
Tazer: My reccomendation: reinstall it
Azalyn: but i will again someday
Tazer: It's pretty stable now for the stylus
Tazer: works pretty much perfectly
Tazer: you have to work around it some to make it work with X 1.7
Azalyn: well, i think i'd prefer waiting until xinput2 support is in there
Tazer: but even if it /is/ causing the X crashes it ruules
Nevtus: what applications are you using it for? Have you discovered MyPaint yet?
Tazer: MyPaint?
Tazer: I only use gimp ;w;
Tazer: and am bad at gimp
Nevtus: http://mypaint.intilinux.com/
Nevtus: it's a graphics program designed for tablets
Azalyn: xinput2 is really what is going to allow multitouch & gestures, as well as having multiple devices with their own pointers, and *proper* plugnplay/hotplug support for X devices.
Azalyn: so i'm excited about that.
Tazer: when does that happen, Aza?
Nevtus: you can do sculping in blender too
Tazer: O:
Tazer: Mypaint
Tazer: downloading now
Nevtus: yeah don't be put off by the name
Azalyn: that will finally make linux more complete in the desktop world. i mean we got pnp/hotplug support on the kernel side a long time ago, and udev perfected that support. but the X side has been stagnant for awhile, and you still have to configure so much stuff in X just to get up and running with a new input device. it's so annoying.
Tazer: I don't really love the interface of Gimp
Azalyn: as for 'when' ... well
Nevtus: they should rename it imo, it sounds like a paint.exe clone
Tazer: so meeting another program is great
Azalyn: xorg server 1.8 is already out now. so the X guys have done their part
RambJoe: 2.7 has single window mode
Azalyn: and Xinput2 was in 1.7
Azalyn: now it's up to the other guys to get their act together.
Tazer: but when does it become standardized?
Tazer: right, exactly
Azalyn: 1.7 (which as i just said, has xinput2) is already considered "stable" by many distros.
Tazer: okay...
Tazer: now I'm confused
Azalyn: ubuntu lucid lynx has 1.7
Tazer: right, meaning I have xinput2?
Azalyn: yeah. but it's a different API, which means the input drivers have to be written to support it..
Tazer: Ooooh
Azalyn: and of course, toolkits like GTK and Qt also have to be written to support it.
Nevtus: Tazer: it you're interested in more 2d grapics programs Alchemy is interesting http://al.chemy.org/
Nevtus: you should watch the videos first though, it's kinda weird
Tazer: which is why I had to install
Tazer: the original linuxwacom driver
Azalyn: linuxwacom doesn't do xinput2 yet i believe. but hopefully they're working on it.
Azalyn: xinput2 will also fix a few wine bugs. once wine implements it
Tazer: so I'm /not/ using xinput2, I'm using the linuxwacom driver that doesn't support 1.7 but is patched a little so that I can use it on my distro
Tazer: Meaning xinput2 won't really work on my tablet yet
Tazer: Do I have it right? ?_?
Tazer: I'm new to all the linux stuff so this is kinda hard to get my head around
Tazer: O: thanks, Nevtus
Tazer: they both look interesting
Tazer: I think I'm gonna go on an art program spree
Azalyn: yeah, you have it right.
Tazer: right
Tazer: yeah that whole disconnecting the tablet thing is gonna wait awhile
Azalyn: xinput2 has the same library as xinput1, the new api is sort of in a different namespace. and you link to it with a different header file.
Azalyn: so the old xinput is still there, for older apps
Azalyn: which is why everything still works, even though most apps are not using xi2 yet.
Azalyn: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6971
Tazer: right
Azalyn: that bug has been a thorn in wine for so long
Tazer: So what date or so do you imagine having all this released?
Tazer: working normally with all tablets, I mean
Azalyn: basically, xinput in X just doesn't have what it takes to support the various behaviors of microsoft's dinput api. so wine has been screwed all this time. finally though, there will be a solution that should solve pretty much all the random mouse/cursor related issues in wine.
Azalyn: well, i am not a developer on any of these projects, so i can't give an estimate.
mastertheknife: alexandernst = giselher? :P
alexandernst: mastertheknife: uh? :s
mastertheknife: oh..
alexandernst: brainfart?
mastertheknife: guess not
alexandernst: I don't know what giselher is
mastertheknife: he sometimes logs in as alex so i thought it might be you
mastertheknife: heh
alexandernst: ah, ok :)
mastertheknife: alexandernst: hows its going with amsn porting to qt4 ?
mastertheknife: or i confused you again with someone else.. sigh
mastertheknife: lol
alexandernst: well, I'm busy with work, but as soon as I get a little bit of free time I'll finish changing some things and qt4 front end will became usable :)
alexandernst: mastertheknife: nah, It's me, amsn/2 dev :p
MPX: Yes! Left 4 dead works with the newest Catalyst 10.5 driver thru wine! woohoo!
MPX: 60 FPS....but the engine stutters alot :S
MPX: (locked, vsync)
mastertheknife: 60 FPS? nice!
mastertheknife: I get 30-50 on my 8800GT at 1024x768 all low
mastertheknife: MPX: Yeah, it freezes all the time
MPX: Yeah
MPX: I get it on 1920x1080 with everything on max, except for models being on medium (or else graphics are screwed)
MPX: I didnt encounter any graphical artifacts of any kind :D
MPX: Except for engine stutter :)
mastertheknife: wow that is really strange
mastertheknife: wine 1.2rc1 must be really fast then
MPX: Perhaps I'm just lucky with my config
mastertheknife: In windows i run the game at 1680x1050 all highest + some AA and AF on my 8800GT but in linux i play 1024x768 all lowest
MPX: But it must help having three 5770's in crossfire on a quadcore that's overclocked...alot
MPX: Well, tried turning off compiz?
mastertheknife: oh you have three 5770s
mastertheknife: that explains a lot
mastertheknife: I dont even have compiz installed on my gentoo
MPX: Oh :S
MPX: I was gonna say sorry for your loss lol
MPX: Try out the 1.2 and see if itmakes a difference :)
MPX: I'm gonna watch some scrubs! D:
MPX: PS I bought the 5770's when they came out...the site I bought them from had their pricing wrong
MPX: Cost me 120 each :)
mastertheknife: MPX: lucky!!! :)
MPX: vvery :)
mastertheknife: whats the real\corrected cost?
MPX: And the 955BE edition alongside the Asus m4a79T deluxe mobo doesnt cost alot
MPX: about 220 :)
MPX: Well, here anyway :)
MPX: I got my 24 inch for 100 too :)
MPX: Special opening day offer :)
mastertheknife: nice :)
SageX: I don't even think sli works in linux
DeathCrawler: Steam... :(
Rednaxela: What's this DeathCrawler?
Rednaxela: The usual impatience? :P
DeathCrawler: Yes,
DeathCrawler: *;
Zeroedout: steam... :D
dandel: Zeroedout, steam has bugs with ut3 and l4d/l4d2 due to unimplemented threading features.
DonScott: did i miss anything cool in the last two days ?
Rednaxela: Nah
Tazzypillar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryTOjUJz1PM&feature=related
bluekoala: Gentlemen
bluekoala: Record breaking heat today in Ottawa
DonScott: past freezing ?
DonScott: j/k
bluekoala: Almost
bluekoala: 32
bluekoala: Felt like 38
bluekoala: And we
bluekoala: 're still in spring
mastertheknife: we're killing our earth
bluekoala: That's 90 felt like 93
DonScott: fucking oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico doesn't help either.....
bluekoala: Yes mastertheknife; I've been through a few years of crisis
bluekoala: Nah
bluekoala: The earth will heal
bluekoala: Right after those pesky humans die off
bluekoala: The world is ruled by money
bluekoala: Banks and corporations have all of it
bluekoala: And they don't care about humans and their needs
bluekoala: Only humans do
bluekoala: AFAIK
bluekoala: With 2 trillion dollars I would change the way energy is made these days
bluekoala: See where that takes us
Tazzypillar: O:
mastertheknife: How is energy made in the US\canada? nuclear power plants ?
bluekoala: Some
bluekoala: Canada a LOT of hydro
bluekoala: Some coal
mastertheknife: Here in israel we're still using coal for energy and some natural gas
bluekoala: Some nuclear
bluekoala: Solar's the way to go
bluekoala: On deserts
bluekoala: I think it's pretty simple too
bluekoala: You buy enough solar infrastructure to make a nice profit
mastertheknife: Solar is the future energy source
bluekoala: And use 40% of the profit in more infratructure
mastertheknife: but solar is such an expensive technology at the moment
mastertheknife: I mean.. we got free energy from the sun, why not use it
bluekoala: How long does a solar panel last?
mastertheknife: no idea
bluekoala: Wait
bluekoala: Google will answer it for me
mastertheknife: Coal power plant next to my house, biggest coal planet in israel: http://www.environment.gov.il/Enviroment/Static/Binaries/Articals/HH-hadera-05-04-001_1.jpg