jumbers: The thing looks extremely fat because of the missing spaces
jumbers: Oh, I see the problem... The default font for Thunderbird is non monospaced, so 1 space != 1 character
jumbers: Sent.
DonScott: cool
jumbers: I changed it to "We're waiting patiently for our turn, Gabe!" though
Galaxy|: they removed all bins_linux and steam_linux zip files
Galaxy|: from cdn.store and store
jumbers: Locking it down for secrets
dusty_fox: hmm
dusty_fox: looks like it
Rednaxela: All known ones anyway
jumbers: Right, that's how they're keeping it secret
DonScott: no peeking
Milyardo: The files have disappeared before during updates of the client
Milyardo: its happened several times already
Galaxy|: i've seen some oddities before
Galaxy|: where i would fetch and get the new version one minute
SimmyD: does anyone know if htere is a file system in linux that can handle longer than 255 chars for a file name length?
Galaxy|: then 5 mins later its reverted to the previous manifest again
Galaxy|: then back to the new one and back and forth for a bit then stuck to the new one
Rednaxela: Note, they could still give 403 on them even if we knew the hashes at the end
jumbers: Which sha sum is that they're using for the files?
Galaxy|: SHA1
Galaxy|: 36^32 combinations iirc
Galaxy|: 36!^32 rather
Rednaxela: SimmyD: 256 in EXT4 ;)
Galaxy|: bruteforce simply isn't an option :(
Galaxy|: only option is to know the filename by way of the manifest
SimmyD: Rednaxela: lol looking for a smidge more than that ;)
jumbers: We already calculated the possibilities
jumbers: And how horribly impossible it would be
jumbers: Even with 5000 people guessing 1 per second
mikeplus64: As excited as we are about the possibility of a Steam Linux client I don't think breaking into Valve's servers is such a great idea. :P
Rednaxela: SimmyD: The wikipedia article on ReiserFS says "http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=620064", so I presume that limit is fixed for any linux filesystem
Rednaxela: er,misquotepaste
Galaxy|: mikeplus64: this stuff isn't on valve's servers
Galaxy|: its on akamai's
Rednaxela: *"4032 bytes, limited to 255 by Linux VFS"
mikeplus64: Oops.
mikeplus64: ;)
Rednaxela: Not that it's a good idea anyway XD
Galaxy|: valve would never be able to pull the hosting prowess together on its own nor the bandwidth to handle it
SimmyD: sigh
Galaxy|: its just a cdn
SimmyD: what a silly limit
SimmyD: :P
Galaxy|: akamai is a "service" much like Sirius in your car
Galaxy|: with certain device you can record the audio from it
Galaxy|: same concept applies here
Rednaxela: Well SimmyD, it's enough length for a twitter message, plus some metadata and a sha hash, to all be in one filename :)
jumbers: You could sha1sum various files on your computer and hope for a collision :p
Galaxy|: what strikes me as odd
Galaxy|: is that the last 5 revisions of the linux manifest
Galaxy|: bins_linux and steam_linux had unique hashes
Galaxy|: so maybe digging in there will get me a new manifest url
jumbers: What is "kvsignatures" a hash of?
jumbers: The last one looked like this
jumbers: "linux" "ab78b07183555aa309355f5eaea248af66bfff0d377ee8ec987a26370a0b5bcc51260d12af27417dbbb70d6906c2f6d5b435c05f6ff117f69254fb0ed84f9c69efcc2d1807417c58dca0680d6a345a6be75a30517afc7199013d026a6ccce24e9e00a5bea748ad6b61b346080c835997bddab24d9e9fdd06427565decf355fb4"
Rednaxela: For all we know, the hash could be salted with the millisecond timer of the computer that made it
Rednaxela: laughs
jumbers: :(
Rednaxela: Though probably not likely since it's probably used for validating that the download was correct
Rednaxela: maybe
Galaxy|: it looks like a partial digest
Galaxy|: it is
Galaxy|: http://www.java-tips.org/java-ee-tips/xml-digital-signature-api/using-the-java-xml-digital-signatur-2.html
jumbers: Looks like sha-256
xorl: so
xorl: they said a new mac game every week, wonder what game comes this week
jumbers: Tux Racer?
Galaxy|: TF2 im betting
xorl: Galaxy|: that's what I was thinking, maybe not?
xorl: It was out during testing phase
xorl: So, Could be
Galaxy|: well it makes sense that was the other game they were testing after all
jumbers: There may have been a nasty bug in it
Galaxy|: yeah that's why it didn't go out the door with portal and the client
Galaxy|: its kinda sad that they are using a DX>OpenGL translation wrapper
jumbers: Or they want to be able to build hype each week and draw people back, so they're staggering
Galaxy|: instead of just doing straight OGL
Galaxy|: but whatever works for em
xorl: Galaxy|: most people do :\
jumbers: Less work for them
xorl: starwars the force unleashed does it too
Galaxy|: yeah its common in the business
xorl: from aspyr games
jumbers: It allows them to build once, run anywhere
Galaxy|: at least they didn't cheat and just make a wine wrapper
Galaxy|: Sims3 disappointed me
Galaxy|: :(
jumbers: That would have sucked
achtung_: Hitler Does Not Like Greeen Eggs and Ham
jumbers: HDNLGEC > Steam for Linux confirmed
jumbers: GEH*
Sleepy_Coder: I love that I can't tell if my computer is on auditorially.
Sleepy_Coder: <3
dusty_fox: I can't either. I'm listening to music!
Sleepy_Coder: cheater :p
achtung_: That's real fuckin' neato.
Sleepy_Coder: ææææææææææææææææ Steam for Linux Confirmed! ææææææææææææææææ
Sleepy_Coder: I had to get that out of my system :p
Sleepy_Coder: Note to self, remove red from the foreground array of the pink background selection.
bluekoala: I don't see why Valve would use a wrapper for DX-OGL unless they plan on making a new engine in the future
dusty_fox: well the source engine does get updates every once in a while
Sleepy_Coder: I don't see why anyone would use DX in the first place aside from API-fetishes that still gets abstracted away.
jumbers: The engine has changed drastically since HL2
Sleepy_Coder: The same goes for OpenGL, but at least with OpenGL the abstraction means less work.
achtung_: Gallium3D
Sleepy_Coder: onu
Sleepy_Coder: er... nou*
Sleepy_Coder: wonders if DX ties into some Windows services that you can't benefit from with OpenGL
dusty_fox: they should switch to 3dfs glide
dusty_fox: *3dfx
bluekoala: Does Gallium3D really mean that game engines won't be API dependant if they support it?
Sleepy_Coder: They should switch to svgalib >8D
jumbers: It ties into Microsoft saying "Don't abandon us"
Sleepy_Coder: ^
Sleepy_Coder: I mean, there's no question that DX is great software... there's just that extra baggage...
Sleepy_Coder: Like an ex-wife.
Sleepy_Coder: "Do I really want to go through this shit again?"
dusty_fox: your wife wasn't open source?
Sleepy_Coder: Oh she was open.
Sleepy_Coder: Kidding, I'm only 20 :p
Sleepy_Coder: I'm also bi >.> But mostly people annoy me.
Sleepy_Coder: Like you, get off my screen.
Sleepy_Coder: throws macaroni
jumbers: And the chat goes silent
jumbers: lol.
mikeplus64: /me's.
jumbers: mikeplus64: Well done :p
mikeplus64: :)
Sleepy_Coder: I think I'm good at this game ;x
jumbers: Moo
bluekoala: lol @ Sleepy_Coder
bluekoala: My wife's not open source
bluekoala: And I'm glad
bluekoala: I once had a g/f who was open sourced
Sleepy_Coder: resists the urge to make licensing jokes about women
bluekoala: And it was all kinds of licensing issues
bluekoala: So f- that
Sleepy_Coder: :D
Sleepy_Coder: he did it :D
Sleepy_Coder: geifs bluekoala a cookie
bluekoala: :P
Sleepy_Coder: <3
bluekoala: :D
DonScott: GPL for women --- confirmed !
Sleepy_Coder: BSD!
Sleepy_Coder: For profit or pleasure.
jumbers: Apache?
Sleepy_Coder: WTFPL
Sleepy_Coder: I actually wrote a bad license once...
jumbers: Don't write your own license... :(
Sleepy_Coder: Let's assume my derived work is under the protection of An Hero.
Sleepy_Coder: You may do whatever you want with this code and you may not
Sleepy_Coder: hold me responsible for any negative affect it has on you,
Sleepy_Coder: your posessions, girlfriend, therapist, ... I would be
Sleepy_Coder: amazed if it caused damage to your computer, and if it does
Sleepy_Coder: I'll laugh at you. You have been warned.
Sleepy_Coder: Compliments of the Greater Lulz License version 2
Sleepy_Coder: I was bored.. though I've been told that if I include a license it means I implied the software's distribution.
Sleepy_Coder: But if there is no license it was not meant to be distributed so no terms apply and anyone using it is risking it themselves.
Sleepy_Coder: But mostly i do not pay attention to licenses.
Sleepy_Coder: I'm in it for fun, not profit.
DonScott: lol
Sleepy_Coder: I mean, i don't respect licenses, but I don't go around creating derived works and distributing to anyone... all personal entertainment :D Most guys have porn, I have almost a TB of source to peruse :(
Sleepy_Coder: Hmm must be some PDFs in there.
JEEB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISC_license <- I'm usually fine with giving people the right to modify and distribute my stuff so I use this one
Sleepy_Coder: funkeh
DonScott: aight people.....i'm out for the night....later
Sleepy_Coder: One of the main reasons I've never really applied licensing to any of my source is I didn't think my works were worthy of being copied. Didn't think anyone would want to... http://partyvan.us/sources I focus mainly on the basics, abusing C, playing with odd theories.. not anything serious/coherent.
achtung_: My ass.
Sleepy_Coder: I like to laugh at people who write large programs and abuse the little things :p
Sleepy_Coder: Originally I wanted to be a hardcore C programmer, but a lot of my friends sort of ruined whatever ambition I had trying to get me to enjoy C++.
JEEB: :)
Sleepy_Coder: I do think C++ can be a great language, I just think there is widespread abuse of it :<
JEEB: Yes
Sleepy_Coder: C seems clearer, at least to me :> I know not everyone agrees.
JEEB: I remember a Google employee talking about C++ in my uni
JEEB: He said that they use a strictly limited subset of C++ just to make it all more sensible to use >_>
Sleepy_Coder: XD
JEEB: (since the C++ standard really has your dogs and your cats)
Rednaxela: That's the only way I'd call using C++ sane really, with such subsetting of it
JEEB: yah
Rednaxela: Of course, one can do a fair share of messed up things in plain C too, so perhaps that should also apply there to an extent
Sleepy_Coder: I remember I once wrote to Ryan Gordan (icculus) about his opinion on C and C++... he wrote me back saying to ignore most of what C++ offers, stick to the parts that make clear sense. Paraphrasing a little and I hope he won't get mad a me for that T.T
Sleepy_Coder: I just always used to look up at him, just validating that I wasn't crazy for disliking ... a certain percentage of the language :>
Sleepy_Coder: That was until I learned of the state of UT3 :(
Sleepy_Coder: (on Linux)
Sleepy_Coder: Then I died inside.
Sleepy_Coder: Rednaxela: I don't like class methods/functions, method/function overloading, operator overloading, pretty much anything that messes with the syntactical rules of C... they make me cry at night. While I'm sure you can think of good clear uses for each of those, the possibility of misuse has always kept me away :>
Sleepy_Coder: I wish the C preprocessor were expanded upon for things like unrolling loops for a const amount of iterations, compile-time parsing of the format string for things like printf(), safer macros in general... not sure if the C preprocessor is part of the C standard as tbh that thing bores the hell out of me when I'm looking for something pertinent... but I think C could be a little more C++'like, at least for compile-time-known
Sleepy_Coder: data.
Sleepy_Coder: I think const_expr from C++0x is sort of a joke. I always laugh when someone mentions it.
Sleepy_Coder: Aren't they adding threading in C1X?
achtung_: I accidentally the whole Gulf of Mexico. Is this bad?
StuckMojo: hi. so where did valve actually announce steam for linux?
StuckMojo: glances at /topic
StuckMojo: it feels like bullshit
riisen: StuckMojo, valve hasent announced steam for linux.. (as far as i know at least)
giselher: any steam news?
rsk: giselher http://store.steampowered.com/news/
Morten_: bwahah :D
giselher: :D
rsk: wouldn't it be awesome thou
rsk: if they announced it the same second you clicked it
rsk: and you were all like "ITS OUT"
rsk: and i was like "no... u so funny"
Morten_: haha yeah, that would have been the best outcome.
Morten_: clicks the link again
Morten_: no luck :(
giselher: try again
Morten_: the same! :(
rsk: they're selling a SEGA pack
rsk: and not including sega rally 2
rsk: douche move
rsk: wow i read the mac news
jumbers: How quickly did the Mac beta fill?
rsk: "Steam has been a service exclusively for PC users since we launched it in 2004. For the first time we and our partners are bringing it to another platform. It's been a ton of work, but the Mac is great for the same reason the PC is great - they are both open systems that let gamers and game developers be as close as possible."
rsk: both open systems
rsk: i lol'd
jumbers: They're open in the sense that you can install whatever you want
Kvisle: "well"
rsk: "well" =
rsk: ?
jumbers: infinity
rsk: jumbers that's not open
rsk: just pluggable
jumbers: OSX is built off of Darwin which is free
rsk: dosen't change anything
xorl: jumbers: go read the Apple Open Sourc License
xorl: :)
xorl: It's not your average "Open" license.
xorl: BSD licenses are awesome, why do you think M$oft abused them for so long.
jumbers: APSL is OSI approved
xorl: That doesn't matter if it's approved.
rsk: well max and windows are unix certified
rsk: not linux
rsk: dosen't mean anything
xorl: anything can have an approved stamp on it, doesn't mean crap
rsk: more than a company giving a stamp
xorl: jumbers: go bitch to apple and get there "Closed" sourced framebuffer modifications that allowed darwin to do what it does now
xorl: you'll have a fun time.
xorl: only thing they provide are what they're required to by law, driver and straight barebone OS mods.
xorl: nothing more.
xorl: which are useless without the rest of mac software
xorl: I would know, I am speaking to you from a MBP right now haha
rsk: http://imgur.com/S7x3d.jpg
tkmorris: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fstore.steampowered.com%2Fpublic%2Fclient%2Fsteam_client_linux
tkmorris: :(
xorl: it'll be back
Sleepy_Coder: (09:04:43) < rsk> well max and windows are unix certified <-- POSIX conformant?
Sleepy_Coder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX-oriented_operating_systems
Sleepy_Coder: UNIX is pretty ambiguous these days.
Sleepy_Coder: Maybe the reason ports sooner go to Mac OS X than Linux is because Mac OS X is fully POSIX-compliant? I feel so substandard.
Sleepy_Coder: Though from how it reads... they state Linux as mostly-compliant because of how many distros there are.
Sleepy_Coder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification Could be referring to that, though...
tstellar: Has anyone here been able to run PTS on gentoo? When I try to run it, it just hangs.
espes: Since I've got most of this afternoon free, I've been having a look at getting text to work in the steam client: http://imgur.com/oEi7o.png
Flyser: huh? valve removed the steam binaries?
Sleepy_Coder: espes: looks sexy :D
giselher: espes: woh
Flyser: espes: nice
Sleepy_Coder: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Esr.jpg This guy has dreadfully off-white teeth.
Galaxy|: he's wearing a retainer
Sleepy_Coder: Galaxy|: Fire. Kill. It. With.
Galaxy|: retainers work well for realigning teeth
Sleepy_Coder: remembers his retainer :<
Sleepy_Coder: That was a cruel 6 months.
Galaxy|: least you could afford dental care
Sleepy_Coder: I actually straitened out my teeth and got out of braces entirely by ripping said braces off :x
Sleepy_Coder: Also got me out of school that day :D Bled all over the floor when I finally managed to get the back anchor off :x
Sleepy_Coder: Do you live in a slum? :D
Galaxy|: and why did you remove your braces yourself?
Galaxy|: :\
Sleepy_Coder: Because they hurt and I could taste jesus on my back molar.
Sleepy_Coder: back-left, to be precise.
Sleepy_Coder: er... bottom T.T
Sleepy_Coder: hides in a trash can
Galaxy|: k..
maligor: heh, windows isn't certified
Sleepy_Coder: Windowned :D
mikeplus64: Preowned!
cmdrk: so i have three identical NAS boxes sitting here with 4x120GB drives in each of them. anyone know of any hip file system i could use to make them appear as one unified FS?
Flyser: cmdrk: To make sure that when one breaks all the data is lost?
cmdrk: As experimental fun? absolutely
Flyser: are theses NAS linux boxes?
Flyser: these
cmdrk: they are currently OS-less. but certainly Linux/BSD would be ideal
GNU\colossus: cmdrk: just slam Linux-md w/ RAID5 on each of them.
GNU\colossus: you could then cluster them using Ceph
cmdrk: I was just looking into Ceph. seems interesting
GNU\colossus: that's recently entered mainline (in 2.6.34)
GNU\colossus: yeah, if it indeed works the way it's advertised to, it's gonna be steak sauce
Flyser: I was going to suggest ceph too. you might also want to have a look at glusterfs
cmdrk: so you think i ought to RAID5 each NAS and then cluster them with ceph? or should i make each device available individually?
GNU\colossus: due to Linux-md being so very awesome, personally, I'd opt for the RAID5 in each of them for sure
bittin: Steam on Linux <3
cmdrk: hmm alright. any distro suggestions?
cmdrk: difficulty: these NAS boxes only have serial and RJ-45. no optical drives or any of that nonsense (not evne USB ports! blah)
bittin: cmdrk: sounds like NetBSD is an idea?
Flyser: netbsd with linux-md? :D
jumbers: facepalms at The Telegraph
jumbers: Thank you for your note regarding our article “Steam for Macs goes live”.
jumbers:
jumbers: The information is given by Valve itself, on its website; we suggest you contact them directly in order to obtain further information.
rsk: hahahaha
NigeyUK: hah i asked them the very same question yesterday
NigeyUK: also i emailed gabe, and just after the linux client files disappear.. hmmm
jumbers: I emailed Gabe this: http://pb.jnumbers.com/7
NigeyUK: haha awsome
jumbers: I can't believe they ignored my entire question except for the URL
jumbers: What did they say to you?
NigeyUK: nothing yet, was about 5:30pm when i emailed so they wont get it until this morning
NigeyUK: but i know gabe did at least open my email, or 1 of his minions did cause i had the read receipt back from the valve mailserver
jumbers: I emailed them a couple hours ago and I just got a reply
jumbers: Gabe reads all his emails
mastertheknife: jumbers: LOL
mastertheknife: jumbers: whats the reply
NigeyUK: oh good, at least he read it, im not arsed about a reply
jumbers: mastertheknife: That was the reply
jumbers: From The Telegraph
Flyser: for »our« turn?
jumbers: Flyser: Yes
mastertheknife: jumbers: no i mean your email to gabe
Flyser: are you sure you dont need "your turn"?
jumbers: mastertheknife: Valve isn't open yet
jumbers: Yes
Flyser: s/need/mean/
jumbers: Yes, I said what I meant
NigeyUK: i wonder, if valve has just blocked access from all ips to the client files, internal ips only
jumbers: Maybe it's as primitive as requiring a referrer :p
Flyser: Well I don't understand the statement then ;)
jumbers: Flyser: The penguin is speaking on behalf of the Linux community saying "We're waiting for our turn [for a Steam client]"
Flyser: ahhhh, thanks for the explanation ;)
jumbers: :)
jumbers: NigeyUK: Do you have the headers from that read receipt?
jumbers: I'm trying to figure out Valve internal IP block
NigeyUK: yeah ill grab it off the laptop now, let me just grab a coffee
jumbers: Sure
jumbers: I'm surprised he allowed his client to send a read receipt
NigeyUK: surprised he read it at all tbh lol
jumbers: Nah, he reads all of his email
mastertheknife: jumbers: I believe its 64.XX.XX.XX
mastertheknife: There is something none of you have tried
mastertheknife: and that is seeing if the client can update
mastertheknife: the client uses a different User Agent
jumbers: I tried
jumbers: Didn't work
mastertheknife: jumbers: oh.
mastertheknife: jumbers: so its IPs then
jumbers: Probably :|
jumbers: Why did they have to hash the filenames with sha1? :(
espes: mastertheknife: ever figure out why fonts don't work?
jumbers: I bet they work now :p
babai: jumbers: so they pulled it?
jumbers: It's throwing a 403 error for now
jumbers: Probably until the beta starts, I'm guessing
espes: fonts don't render because DrawUpdateSubTextureRGBA is for some reason only applying the first pixel of the texture
espes: I think it's a problem with how it's calling openGL
espes: for one, it seems to be passing GL_BYTE instead of GL_UNSIGNED_INT_8_8_8_8 to glTexImage2D
espes: but that's not the root problem
espes: Actually, it should be passing GL_BYTE
espes: fails at opengl
jumbers: "The first collection of Mac titles will demonstrate "Steam Play," which allows customers to purchase a game once and play it on all Steam supported platforms." Is it just me, or does that description give it away that Windows and Mac aren't the only "supported platforms"?
jumbers: Every news source covered it as "Steam Play lets you buy once and play on Mac or Windows", but they missed that subtle Valve hint
mikeplus64: Yeah, it sounds like they don't want to have to re-do that just because they were specific about 'Steam supported platforms'.
Kvisle: it doesn't mean anything ... it's just a sensible way to phrase it
jumbers: In general, most people don't say "all" when they're talking about two things
jumbers: They usually say "both"
NigeyUK: personally, i think the reply i had from rbarris has told us all we need to know, but without official confirmation
jumbers: Pastebin?
mikeplus64: What was that reply?
Modplan: jumbers you're forgetting, it's marketing
Modplan: they're never sensible
Kvisle: NigeyUK: what reply?
NigeyUK: That would be a strategic / marketing decision. I'm a contractor on the GL module.. offsite at that.
NigeyUK: It would make sense that if they were trying to make a decision, they might do a proof of concept first. They probably also want to see how the Mac effort pans out, which could take a while.
NigeyUK: Sunday
NigeyUK:
NigeyUK:
NigeyUK: 05-16-2010 Re: Just an observation
NigeyUK: 08:02 PM rbarris
jumbers: NigeyUK: Did you find the IP from the read receipt?
jumbers: Or just the whole header
NigeyUK: oh yeah 2 secs then
mastertheknife: hey espes.. no, i believe its just not implemented
espes: mastertheknife: ?
jumbers: Fonts
espes: mastertheknife: the fonts are rendered to a texture
espes: you can dump them and view them if you want
mastertheknife: espes: you viewed them and saw fonts ??
espes: the problem is when it tries to render render/upload the texure
espes: mastertheknife: yeah
mastertheknife: espes: Can you upload to imgur.com a picture of the fonts.. ? :)
espes: http://imgur.com/BT7IV.png
espes: I didn't have anything set up properly, but there if definitely an "e" :P
jumbers: It looks broken
mastertheknife: you sure? that looks very weird
mastertheknife: espes: Have you heard, valve made steam_client_linux forbidden
jumbers: It looks like an interlaced something
espes: mastertheknife: yeah
Modplan: it looks like a digidoodle
espes: jumbers: yeah, it was just a quick test a week or so ago
espes: mastertheknife: in case you didn't see: http://imgur.com/oEi7o.png
mastertheknife: oh.. interesting
mastertheknife: how did you do that?
espes: that's from setting the first pixel of each rendered texture to 0x000000FF
Modplan: now that's awesome. I keep wandering what the other fields are
jumbers: It's the normal login screen
mastertheknife: espes: wow.. nice
jumbers: The same one from Windows
Ivanovic: really a nice one
espes: just need to fix DrawUpdateSubTextureRGBA and they should work
mastertheknife: espes: what does that function do?
espes: mastertheknife: basically creates an opengl texture from an RGBA texutre
mastertheknife: jumbers: does the client work regardless of the manifest being forbidden? it continues past updating?
jumbers: You have to tell it not to update I believe
mastertheknife: espes: I don't have the client installed but i will install it soon, i have the files from the big update (7th may)
mastertheknife: espes: What about the GetTextSize function, can it fail because of this?
espes: mastertheknife: it's not called for rendering textures
espes: I don't htink
espes: think*
espes: anyway, that was one afternoon's poking
espes: ima go finish some homework
mastertheknife: espes: Setting the pixel color to 0x000000FF was done where? inside that broken function?
espes: mastertheknife: after CLinuxFont::GetStringRGBA
mastertheknife: espes: ok thanks.. ill peek :)
mastertheknife: espes: I'm confused, how did you get rid of the artifacts, which i guess were improperly rendered fonts?
espes: mastertheknife: the artifacts were due to vgui::COpenGLSurface::DrawGradientFilledRect being broken
espes: mastertheknife: it's used for rendering the button backgrounds
NigeyUK: Unable to find font named %s
NigeyUK: Assertion Failed: IsValid()
NigeyUK: wats that? :|
espes: NigeyUK: install mscorefonts
NigeyUK: i have it, this is from the vgui file
espes: NigeyUK: then no idea
mastertheknife: espes: I can't reproduce what you did, I assume the unsigned char* is the RGBA texture, so when GetStringRGBA returns i set the first pixel of the first calls to 0x000000FF but nothing changed
espes: mastertheknife: try 0xFF000000
mastertheknife: Its possible that the gradient fill is hidding it? but probably not likely
espes: mastertheknife: just kill the gradient fill function
mastertheknife: espes: 0xFF000000 worked, the username field is now black
mastertheknife: espes: I think the problem is in GetStringRGBA, this function returns invalid texture
mastertheknife: espes: The pixels are all 0, at least the first ones
espes: mastertheknife: the top row are all 0, yes
mastertheknife: Oh.
espes: mastertheknife: I'm pretty sure it's valid
mastertheknife: This is weird, i set one pixel to that color and now all pixels have that color, this is probably the bug you meant in the function you wrote?
espes: mastertheknife: yes, it's not uploading it properly to an opengl texture or something
espes: I've yet to dig further
espes: I thought it might have been screwing up the dimensions somewhere, but that doesn't seem to be the case
mastertheknife: espes: that may be the case with gradients but doesnt seem the problem with fonts
mastertheknife: espes: I guess the first int to GetStringRGBA is the string size, but the 2 ints after are zero here, any idea what are they? and the 5th and 6th ints are size i believe
NigeyUK: what's a .dbg file? debug ?
espes: ok, the problem seems to lie in the loop in DrawUpdateTextureRGBA rather than in any opengl calls
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: yeah probably
NigeyUK: kk
mastertheknife: espes: Hmm, that makes sense because of the same pixel color
mastertheknife: espes: but that function doesn't exist here, perhaps you mean DrawUpdateSubTextureRGBA
espes: mastertheknife: yeah
espes: whatever :\
mastertheknife: espes: and there is no loop in it, it seems to just re-arrange parameters order and call DrawUpdateTextureRGBAHelper
espes: mastertheknife: yeah that
espes: I think the loop just does a hard scale on the texture, though it's just a hunch.
mastertheknife: have you tried changing the variables? :P
mastertheknife: to continue the loop
mastertheknife: wow that function has a lot of parameters
espes: gah, stupid compiler optimisations
espes: lolfail
espes: this seems to be caused by a stupid type
espes: %edi is never incremented
espes: now all is needed is a place to shove in a few instructions
mastertheknife: espes: if you increment %edi manually, fonts appear?
espes: mastertheknife: no
espes: no way I'm incrementing manually
mastertheknife: hmm.. maybe you are right, its probably impossible to increment it manually, will take forever
espes: it just looks like the programmer has done for (int y=0; y mastertheknife: espes: what about this, 83 c7 04 add $0x4,%edi
espes: mastertheknife: ?
mastertheknife: espes: Its in that function
mastertheknife: espes: Also, 31 ff xor %edi,%edi
espes: mastertheknife: address?
mastertheknife: espes: this clears %edi
mastertheknife: espes: 103d8e:31 ff xor %edi,%edi
espes: mastertheknife: it's not in the inner loop
mastertheknife: espes: 103f08:83 c7 04 add $0x4,%edi
mastertheknife: espes: oh ok.
espes: the loop is 103d45 -> 103d5a
mastertheknife: espes: whats %edx ?
espes: mastertheknife: x pos I think
espes: -0x20(%ebp) is the texture
espes: the texture object
espes: the target texture object
espes: mov 0x4(%ecx),%esi probably sets %esi to the width of the target texture
mastertheknife: espes: -0x20(%ebp) is a local variable though, not the parameter
espes: mastertheknife: yeah, the target texture is loaded into -20(%ebp) from GetTextureById
mastertheknife: espes: oh
espes: so just need to nudge in three bytes in that inner loop
mastertheknife: espes: no free nops nearby, it will probably have to be a long jump instead of a short one
mastertheknife: espes: you have here: 102ca6
espes: it may be possible to replace mov -0x20(%ebp),%ecx
espes: since it is loaded earlier in the function but cleared for use as a zero registers
espes: register*
espes: actually, disregard that
mastertheknife: espes: there are 10 nops in 102ca6
bittin: Somone know a good movie player to Mac OS 9?
NigeyUK: try macVCD think that does most formats
bittin: http://www.xvidmovies.com/mac/ Xvid Codecs for Mac OS 8/9 can try that
JEEB: too bad it's not Mac OS X... there's at least an up-to-date mplayer build for that :/
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQhsFCWTnN8&feature=player_embedded
mastertheknife: haha
cmdrk: installing Linux via serial console is pure pain
th0br0: haha, so they actually kicked us out of steam on linux ... http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux ... forbidden.
espes: http://imgur.com/m6qMm.png
espes: I don't think that's quite the intended effect
NigeyUK: its very.. dotty though.....
mastertheknife: ok well
mastertheknife: text shows up now
mastertheknife: just not as intended
mastertheknife: this is good though
espes: mastertheknife: I think the loop is doing something fancy
espes: that, or text render is broken after all
mastertheknife: its probably how the texture is
mastertheknife: espes: you made some amazing progress
espes: mastertheknife: actually..
mastertheknife: espes: those dots are not far from text
espes: it shouldn't be just incrementing edi, it should be calculating base[y][x]
espes: gah, need more nops
mastertheknife: bah :/
mastertheknife: If i had knew ELF format
mastertheknife: I would have increased the size of vgui2 to have more nops
mastertheknife: in the bottom or the file or something
mastertheknife: need to increase the .code\.text section, but this is tricky
espes: mastertheknife: or we could just write over dead code
espes: anyway, I might get time for more this weekend
mastertheknife: espes: by the way, mouse input works with that gradient stuff disabled ?
espes: mastertheknife: maybe?
espes: dunno
espes: I don't think it'd make a difference
Kano: michaellarabel:
Kano: checking fglrx-packaging.diff:
Kano: 1 file changed
Kano: missing files: 1
Kano: checking phoronix-test-suite.diff:
Kano: 13 files changed, 23 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
asciiwolf: hello
Kano: michaellarabel: cant you use a STANDARD web frontend instead of your crap?
asciiwolf: any news about Steam?
Kano: the file to parse is not readable anymore, chmod 600 most likely
NigeyUK: lol ello kano, asciiwolf
GNU\colossus: a web frontend for what?
Kano: for git, phorogit is stupid
Kano: it does not work correctly since the beginning
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/pts/prove-that-phorogit-is-unusable.sh
Kano: try it yourself
Kano: it compares tar.gz against git clone
rsk: asciiwolf they pulled the files
asciiwolf: rsk, :O
asciiwolf: no
asciiwolf: the files are there
asciiwolf: but they are not accessible...
asciiwolf: "You don't have permission to access /public/client/steam_client_linux on this server."
Kvisle: asciiwolf: how do you know they're there?
Ivanovic: they were there before
Ivanovic: either they were removed or the permission settings were changed
Kvisle: or both
Kvisle: or they just figured that people are using the wrong user agent string
jumbers: The files are not there anymore
jumbers: They've removed all old builds
Kvisle: I find it incredible how much it's possible to "know" about something through pure speculation
jumbers: There is no speculation in that statement
Kvisle: I'm mostly talking about the generic steam on linux discussions ... it's the feather that's quickly turning into a giant chicken
jumbers: Okay, keep your head in the sand, that's fine
Kvisle: I want steam in linux as much as anyone --- there's just no reason to come with statements as "it's official", yet
Kano: Ivanovic: removed gives another error, thats permission related
jumbers: Nobody in here has said, in any serious capacity that it's official
jumbers: Kano: The builds are all gone though
Ivanovic: Kvisle: it was already said many times, valve might have confirmed it to some people from the press already, just not published a whole announcement themselves
Kano: not really problematic, maybe they just want that you can not test em ;)
Ivanovic: Kvisle: and this would be a case of confirmed
Ivanovic: and yeah, there is zero way to verify the sources eg the telegraph has/had
jumbers: We can't be sure that story that the Telegraph posted about "confirmation" was real. I got a pretty useless reply from them
Kvisle: Ivanovic: I saw it on the telegraph the day it was posted ... and one can only speculate : do they know something we don't, or did they pick up on the same rumors as everyone else
jumbers: They said "Valve announced it on their website. I suggest you contact them for more information" which makes me think they ignored everything I said in my email, except for the URL to the article
Ivanovic: jumbers: those can easily be "auto replies"
Kvisle: that's a confirmation that they DON'T have a source within valve, imo
jumbers: Ivanovic: I doubt it was an autoreply
Ivanovic: Kvisle: or it is confirmation that they are not (yet) allowed to go all out
Kvisle: Ivanovic: then "we're not at liberty to tell" would be a much more appropriate answer
jumbers: "Thank you for your note regarding our article “Steam for Macs goes live”. The information is given by Valve itself, on its website; we suggest you contact them directly in order to obtain further information."
Ivanovic: Kvisle: but it would directly say that they do have information and signed an nda
Kvisle: jumbers: oh, autoreply ftw :D
jumbers: That's not an autoreply, it was several hours later
Ivanovic: jumbers: if there are enough questions about the article, this would be the *exact* auto reply to use...
Ivanovic: ;)
Ivanovic: but yeah, several hours later indicate that it was read by a human and copy&pasted
Kvisle: jumbers: it's the same sort of autoreply that the mods in world of warcraft use for their tickets, for instance ... "thank you for your blalldsfaklfdsk fldska fdslkf dsalfsklsd kthxbye"
Kvisle: also coming several hours later
Kvisle: jumbers: did you ask again?
jumbers: I'm gonna reply to the email and say it was a useless reply
jumbers: Kvisle: Replied to them. I complained about the form letter and asked for a real reply
jumbers: "Thank you for your email, which will be dealt with as soon as possible. blah blah blah" That's the autoreply
jumbers: Steam for Linux is old news anywa
jumbers: It was confirmed by Phoronix in 2008
jumbers: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=steam_confirmation&num=1
rsk: hahahahahhahaha
Kvisle: haha
Kvisle: *facepalm*
sado1: ahahahahahah lol
rsk: it's still as confirmed as vavle as it was then
Kvisle: exactly
Kvisle: we all WANT this, but seriously --- why jump to conclusions
sado1: "steam confirmed by phoronix"... last time was at least 10th
sado1: not saying it won't happen but "steam confirmed" is a bit too strong title for a news about linux files found on the servers etc.
rsk: a bit?
rsk: heh
jumbers: Also, Postal III is coming out in 2009
Hideme: I have multiple hard drives in my system, how do I select which one I'd like to benchmark in PTS?
Kvisle: I believe it will come --- eventually --- I just think we're getting our hopes up if we think it's imminent ... and the reason I think it will come eventually, is because I believe that linux will be the platform that stands victorious in the end
DonScott: i don't think that.....i think its coming to steam so they can make some more money which is a good thing.
DonScott: err linux not steam
somename: i cant access http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux anymore :O
DonScott: they hid it
rsk: or removed it alltogheter
murray: no.. they changed the permissions
mastertheknife: rsk: If it was removed it would give 404. Change the filename, you will get 404
mastertheknife: the file is there
maligor: it's just forbidden
maligor: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_donut gives 404
mastertheknife: its just restricted to some IPs
DonScott: steamy donuts
DonScott: lol
rsk: i'd kill for some steamy donuts
rsk: just ripped a few bonghits
mastertheknife: The file is no longer accessible, it doesn't matter why, but whats next
mastertheknife: Nuke the client, or continue work on it (Its development halted around march)
mastertheknife: I think option 2
rsk: oh
mastertheknife: they wanted to see for a while if there is interest for a linux client
rsk: it's confirmed then!
rsk: acts as a phoronix news-writer
murray: :D
somename: that would explain why it was public..
mastertheknife: The linux client will be far much successful than the mac one
rsk: i'm sure he got some mails from microsoft fanboys also
rsk: "linux not for gaming dont spend time on this shit!"
rsk: etc
rsk: i would kill to get my hands on thoose
mastertheknife: linux is free, got better drivers and opengl support, and over 80% of the people got cards that can play the games, unlike mac where only 40-50% can play the games
mastertheknife: heh...
somename: i would like to see microsoft dieing one day
maligor: and most people don't have laptops
somename: *dying
jumbers: somename: That would be bad. Competition is good.
maligor: laptops are rubbish for gaming
somename: they still deserved it
maligor: somename, I would like to see apple die first
rsk: well once linux evolves enough
rsk: microsoft is going to have to convert their buisness around linux-apps
rsk: and solutions
mastertheknife: maligor: The thing is that Mac laptops, 80% of them have onboard Intel cards that cant play the games, except some $3500+ laptops that got 9400M and 9600GT
somename: apple would die when there wouldnt be photoshop for it
somename: for mac
mastertheknife: yeah
maligor: mastertheknife, ah, yes, the cards that break at the seams
jumbers: Photoshop isn't the big Mac software, it's Final Cut and other video editing stuff
somename: what has mac otherwise to offer? nothing
rsk: high prices
maligor: I'd say linux is a better platform for video editing
jumbers: Pretty cases
rsk: linux is a better plattform for video rendering
rsk: it's not mature enough for editing
maligor: rsk, huh?
rsk: or the apps for it.
maligor: HUH?
mastertheknife: Mac offers easy OS for not so smart people, but at a great cost..
maligor: you're talking nonsense
rsk: sure?
maligor: linux is fantastic for workstation use
rsk: what big company uses linux for video editing?
th0br0: maligor: there is no proper video editing software
maligor: I dare say they don't use it because there's no software
th0br0: Except for maybe that BBC open source project.
jumbers: Sure, but the likelihood Linux will take off for video editing is low since the majority of people that do video editing are professionals that are taught on Macs on Final Cut HD
maligor: but as a platform, it's much better than mac or windows
maligor: for workstation use I mean
rsk: well it's no use if there's no software
jumbers: Cinelerra
mastertheknife: Linux can beat Windows in business use but the problem is that there is no good email client like Outlook
jumbers: Depends on your needs. Thunderbird is great
somename: outlook sucks
mastertheknife: corporations have lots of computers, paying for a windows license of each is lots of money
jumbers: Not really, they get a volume license and pay very little per license
jumbers: Plus, they pay huge support contracts to Microsoft so when anything goes wrong, they can call them and say "fix it"
mastertheknife: Why pay if you use Linux which is free, far more stable and FAR more secure? Something holds linux back
mastertheknife: if you can use*
jumbers: For the above reason
mastertheknife: I think Office programs such as Outlook and Active Directory are the ones to blame
mastertheknife: there are no good alternatives
plantain: fwiw there's several linux vendors who'll off those same support contracts jumbers
Japje: dont forget exchange
mastertheknife: I was a sysop in the army, responsible for 50 windows computers, i never found myself calling Microsoft
plantain: my uni for example pays red hat for the very same
jumbers: The other two problems are Office and Exchange though
plantain: my uni solves that with Open Office and google's email hosting
jumbers: Sure, that's great and all for a university, but when you have corporate monkeys that hardly know how to use a computer and they already barely have a grasp on Office, it's hard to make them switch
jumbers: Plus, IT would have to learn how to fix all of the various problems
jumbers: It's a HUGE cost to a company to switch to Open Office
plantain: not so huge in comparison to Office licence costs
plantain: IT is almost redundant, red hat covers the system support and google covers the email support
plantain: I have no idea how much they pay for either though
jumbers: Probably huge education discounts
plantain: I think the google stuff is free, doubt red hat is
jumbers: Google Apps isn't free for corporate use
plantain: I know
Japje: 50 dollars per inbox/user
Japje: per year
Hideme: I have multiple hard drives in my system, how do I select which one I'd like to benchmark in PTS?
redeeman: i don't think you do
redeeman: i don't know though
Hideme: Well that's just silly.
RambJoe: any news on why steam_client_linux is forbidden
somename: nope
DeathCrawler: =/
cmdrk: blargh
mastertheknife: RambJoe: either they are going to nuke the client, or continue development
RambJoe: aw hell naw if they nuke
somename: or they just tested us
RambJoe: that could stop me from buying portal 2
mastertheknife: I believe they wanted to see how much interest there is for a linux client
RambJoe: do you think we showed engough?
mastertheknife: Yeah
RambJoe: :)
RambJoe: i don't think there would be any other reasons for hosting a secret project on their site lol
mastertheknife: From what i know from an insider
mastertheknife: they wanted to see how the mac client pans out before rolling a linux version
RambJoe: hmm
RambJoe: so they care more about linux or mac
mastertheknife: and probably also to check how much interest there is for a linux client
mastertheknife: mac
RambJoe: oh
mastertheknife: which is wrong, linux will have more players
mastertheknife: but oh well, the games aren't ready now anyway
somename: yeah... no ex-windows user would buy new hardware just for mac
mastertheknife: valve is slowly porting all games to the newest Source engine, only then they can be ported to Mac
RambJoe: i think they should resease he client as soon as its done, not just wait for their first game
RambJoe: their are other devs like ID
Kano: i think today should be some new games or not for mac?
mastertheknife: Kano: Yeah, i guess TF2 is the one
Kano: every week one game... not that bad
Ivanovic: Kano: yeah, they announced that new stuff will pushed on wednesdays
RambJoe: yeah windows users can just put Linux on their own pc for free
mastertheknife: Kano: People in the mac forum got CS:S(the one on new engine, the beta) and TF2 to run on the Mac
mastertheknife: by copying all files to the Mac's engine (its same engine after all)
Kano: well you have to test it a bit, maybe you need to compile some binaries for the mods
Kano: so basically you should be able to do that in 1 week...
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1274161
d2kx: 75min to google until Google IO keynote :)
mastertheknife: Kano: Kind of, the engine in the Mac OSX is the latest engine, which is what Valve ported TF2 to and now is finishing testing CS:S port to newest engine
jumbers: Valve didn't develop that new CS:S
mastertheknife: jumbers: Valve ported CS:S to the newest Source engine because it has better graphics (and other new stuff) and because its the version they ported to the Mac
jumbers: No, Hidden Path Studios did
mastertheknife: jumbers: You sure about this? I thought Valve bought the CS mod
RambJoe: hidden path helped
jumbers: Sounded to me like Hidden Path did everything and Valve sorta helped them
Azalyn: [10:36:28] valve is slowly porting all games to the newest Source engine, only then they can be ported to Mac
Azalyn: "all games" ?
Azalyn: all their own games are already source engine games.
Azalyn: :|
Azalyn: they don't need to be ported.
Ivanovic: Azalyn: they have to be ported
Ivanovic: Azalyn: there are different "versions" of the source engine
DonScott: they need to update them to the newest engine though
RambJoe: opengl
Ivanovic: this you can call a port
jumbers: Not all of their games are source
Azalyn: all of those engines share the same codebase though.
Ivanovic: normally you develop a game based on a snapshot of the codebase from the engine you use
Kano: mastertheknife: has the WIN version of tf2 also the opengl renderer? i dont think so
RambJoe: oh yeah what are they doing about goldsrc
Azalyn: they just need to backport the patches
jumbers: HL, CS, TFC, DoD, those are all goldsrc
Azalyn: goldsrc is already opengl.
Ivanovic: so changes in the engine later on might require changes in the sourcebase, too
Ivanovic: goldsrc is a different thing
Azalyn: who knows if they're going to port that though.
Ivanovic: there you first got to port input and audio stuff
Azalyn: half-life has a source version.
RambJoe: will they release on mac/linux though
jumbers: Half-Life: Source is a joke
Azalyn: i wouldn't call it a "joke", it's just a bit buggy.
Azalyn: but it's practically the same..
mastertheknife: Azalyn: The are multiple versions of the Source engine, and valve ports all their games to the newest version of the Source engine, its not simple because a lot changed
jumbers: I think there's about 5 source engines now
cmdrk: don't TF2, L4D, L4D2, Portal etc all use different versions of the Source engine?
mastertheknife: GoldSrc is already OpenGL and is the same version for all games, it will be ported as is, but i heard it wont happen soon
Azalyn: they are all closely related enough that it shouldn't be difficult at all. the 'ports' are probably already done.
jumbers: HL2, HL2:EP1, Orange Box, Left 4 Dead, and I'm not sure if L4D2 had one
Azalyn: they are likely just playtesting
d2kx: TF2/Portal = Orange Box
cmdrk: ah, right
Azalyn: the d3d->opengl layer is probably giving them the most trouble.
jumbers: They're drastically different
Ivanovic: jumbers: don't forget the very first game that was released and based on the source engine
Azalyn: since the layer might screw up with one game and not another.
jumbers: Ivanovic: I didn't. I said HL2
Ivanovic: (not from valve and won't appear in steam either)
Ivanovic: the first game using the source engine was vampire bloodlines
mastertheknife: Azalyn: the layer is game independent and other than performance issues, it works suprisingly good
asraniel: i had irc problems. what did i see? linux client is no longer available and somebody could nearly get fonts to work?
Azalyn: i didn't say it didnt. but we have no way of knowing how it works for the other games.
mastertheknife: asraniel: Yeah, the file is now forbidden, most likely restricted to some IPs
asraniel: thats bad...
jumbers: Ivanovic: They came out the same day, so that means they're almost definitely from the same version
mastertheknife: Its not too bad if we won't get linux soon, the games aren't ported to the newest engine yet anyway
Ivanovic: jumbers: no, that does not mean that they are based on the same version
Ivanovic: jumbers: like i said, they do use snapshots of the engine
Ivanovic: and the outside studio might rely on an older snapshot
mastertheknife: asraniel: espes did make some progress with the fonts
jumbers: Not the same build, but it would have the same core features
asraniel: mastertheknife: jeah, if i was valve i would first get the osx version up and running with all/most games, and then go to linux. having two platforms in developement it just too much i suppose
mastertheknife: asraniel: espes changed the first pixel of each font texture to black and this was the result: http://i.imgur.com/oEi7o.png
asraniel: mastertheknife: didn't see his patches on the etherpad
mastertheknife: asraniel: later it was suspected that the loop is at fault, so he modified the loop and got this: http://i.imgur.com/m6qMm.png
somename: what was the lastest, available version of steam? 1273712753?
Ivanovic: jumbers: and what of the game dark massiah?
jumbers: Maybe. They've removed all the old files though
Ivanovic: that one was based on the source engine, too...
Azalyn: i don't see why people are being pessimistic about the linux port. i don't think them blocking it on their site means anything at all.
asraniel: mastertheknife: looks great. looking forward to his explications on etherpad
asraniel: Azalyn: well, i think it means SOMETHING
jumbers: Ivanovic: Never played it
Azalyn: it means that they don't want us to see it anymore.
jumbers: It means they don't want us peeking
asraniel: Azalyn: either it means they are now starting to really work on the linux version and don't want intermediate versions to come out
mastertheknife: asraniel: The problem seems to be in a loop inside a function.. as you can see in the picture, those dots are not far from fonts
asraniel: Azalyn: or they stoped the linux port
Azalyn: no it doesnt.
jumbers: If they stopped it, they would have deleted the file
d2kx: asraniel: thats what i personally believe (first assumption)
d2kx: yeah they wouldve removed it, they havent stopped anything
mastertheknife: I dont think they stopped
Azalyn: "stopping the linux port" is not even remotely a possibility at this point.
RambJoe: they did delete
RambJoe: then chmoded it
asraniel: mastertheknife: thats why i hope he postes a little "howto" on etherpad, then more people can try to debug
RambJoe: but they deleted win32 too
jumbers: Azalyn: It certainly is possible
Azalyn: i disagree.
Tigge: perhaps some user agent sniffing?
jumbers: Just because it's not likely, doesn't mean it's not possible
cmdrk: RambJoe, they removed the win32 client files as well?
RambJoe: they did i think
somename: i can access the win32 files
jumbers: Tigge: The client won't download it either, so it's not useragent
RambJoe: but they're back now
mastertheknife: You are wrong, they deleted all known files.. and the files from yesterday were also deleted, but they should be back there if the checksum is the same, but no, they aren't. seems like they updated the files
cmdrk: ahh ok.
Tigge: jumbers: ah, okay
mastertheknife: So i believe they returned to work on the linux client
Azalyn: ok, it's also possible that a meteor will come strike us down within the next five seconds.
asraniel: Azalyn: i didn't say they stopped. i just listed the two most probable possibilites. now one of those two is actually more probable than the other ;)
mastertheknife: win32 and osx stuff are still there
asraniel: mastertheknife: so if they updated the files we should be able to find them if we can guess the filename
Azalyn: asraniel: one is about as probable as the sun going nova on us in the next 10 seconds.
cmdrk: can someone drop a link for the win32 or osx client files?
RambJoe: i swear they delete win32 last night and then bought it back or soemthing lke tat
jumbers: Hopefully Gabe enjoys my email
Azalyn: hence not even worth mentioning.
mastertheknife: asraniel: you can't guess the checksum though.
DonScott: lol yeah jumbers
mastertheknife: cmdrk: change linux in the end to win32 or osx
cmdrk: alright
maligor: Valve has confirmed it! They're shutting down steam!
asraniel: mastertheknife: ah i thought somebody said it wasn't a checksum but actually a date. i'm wrong then
jumbers: asraniel: Have fun guessing 1 out of 1309773799142205016354462501416515682085412709631 possibilities
Azalyn: what probably happened, is they got sick of the bad PR of the mac port, and they are afraid that maybe linux users will get bad impressions from the current quality of the client.
mastertheknife: I think they released the mac client too early
mastertheknife: they released it with just 1 game
Azalyn: of course, what they don't know, is that we're not a bunch of whiny bitches like mac users are.
Azalyn: :)
d2kx: mastertheknife apple probably wanted it to be out before the WWDC so they can talk about it
mastertheknife: like the "steam on mac sucks" youtube video LOL
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: they released it with only one game from valve and that game is for free
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: so regarding this it is *not* too early
jumbers: There are like 50 games available or something
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: Yeah, no problems with that, but if i was in charge of valve, i would have delayed the client to release it with few games
Azalyn: geez, what is with this attitude that apple can actually control when other companies release their products
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: this way they got the platform out and directly get many testers due to the free portal
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: Timing is a critical role in a product's succession
Azalyn: valve *may*, and i say *MAY* have consulted with them on some things, but i'm telling you now, apple has no control whatsoever on what valve does.
asraniel: mastertheknife: actually it's a good move i think. like that they can fix bugs more easely. if they had 10 source based games that would be harder than just with one. and portal is a simple one, much less demanding that other. so they can slowly progress
Galaxy|: the linux manifest is still unaccounted for
Galaxy|: :(
Azalyn: and honestly i would not be surprised if they did not even communicate with eachother.
jumbers: Ivanovic: They're giving away Portal to get people hooked into wanting to buy Portal 2
Azalyn: especially given that the mac version doesn't follow any of the UI guidelines.
mastertheknife: asraniel: you have some point
Ivanovic: jumbers: i think they do so to get many mac users in as fast as possible
Azalyn: and doesn't even use cocoa. or anything.
Ivanovic: jumbers: since the "good game" is for free, many are likely to test it
Azalyn: you would think that if apple was in league here, that they would have told them to make it fit the UI on the mac. heh
Azalyn: since apple is so bitchy about that.
jumbers: It's not a coincidence that they did it at the same time as the Mac release, but they're doing it to get people to buy Portal 2 when it comes out
Galaxy|: Azalyn: Valve took the "same on every platform" approach
mastertheknife: I would love to play L4D natively
jumbers: It is a much nicer UI though
Galaxy|: they want the product to look and act the same everywhere
Galaxy|: and frankly you can't expect much more considering they aren't using native OpenGL and MacOS has no native DirectX to OpenGL wrappers
mastertheknife: SteamPlay is not just buy on one platform and play on another. It includes shared multiplayer (all platforms play together) and shared Steam Cloud (your save game from Windows can be used on Mac), etc
Galaxy|: their translation layer is the cause of a few minor graphical glitches
Galaxy|: SteamPlay was a wonderful idea
Galaxy|: and its one of the well rounded features to boot
jumbers: I'm pretty sure save games don't go to Steam Cloud, at least on current games
Galaxy|: they do
mastertheknife: jumbers: In L4D they do
mastertheknife: jumbers: I recently re-downloaded L4D and it asked me to if to download my save game from Cloud, or to use a new one
Azalyn: Galaxy|: what are you talking about? i KNOW all of that. i was responding to people who think that apple and valve 'co-operated' on the mac version.
Azalyn: i'm saying that it's unlikely because if they had, then apple would have insisted on them following the mac guidelines.
mastertheknife: Galaxy|: Although their translation layer acts like Wine, its much faster than Wine's DirectX9->OpenGL and probably looks better. One of the reasons its faster is the shaders. In Wine, HLSL is converted to DirectX shaders and wine converts that to GLSL, while Valve's translation module converts the engine's internal HLSL format directly into GLSL
jumbers: mastertheknife: But there's no way to save the game, you just launch a campaign and play
Galaxy|: mastertheknife: yeah I know
Galaxy|: it is more efficient
mastertheknife: jumbers: it does that automaticly
Galaxy|: i am glad they didnt go the Cider route
Galaxy|: that would have been a major let down
Galaxy|: apple doesn't really have aesthetic guidelines when it comes to cocoa apps Azalyn they do have code standard guidelines however
jumbers: So you're saying if I start a single player campaign and quit mid-game, it will start me back from where I left?
mastertheknife: jumbers: I'm not sure, but yeah its possible
mastertheknife: jumbers: I don't remember saving a L4D game either
mastertheknife: jumbers: Yet, when i reinstalled L4D, cloud had my savegame
jumbers: The feature says, and I quote "You keyboard, mouse, and gamepad configuration. Your multiplayer settings including spraypaint image"
Azalyn: i don't know why it's so shocking that save games and multiplayer works.. that seems like it would go without saying.
jumbers: you*
jumbers: I have portal installed and it didn't sync my saved games
mastertheknife: Maybe its not available for Portal
jumbers: I see a cloud right next to Portal in the game list
mastertheknife: Maybe a save from the old engine isn't compatible with the new engine
Azalyn: rolls eyes
Azalyn: or maybe it's just a bug.
mastertheknife: jumbers: no idea, really
Kano: depends on the way you store it
jumbers: I had to disable Steam Cloud because my spray kept disappearing in Left 4 Dead/Left 4 Dead 2
DonScott: damn i love the cheesy goodness of a quesadilla
jumbers: DonScott: I hate you... :(
DonScott: lol
Azalyn: hm.
Azalyn: google's IO conference starts in half an hour, right?
Azalyn: apparently they're gonna have a live stream here: http://www.youtube.com/GoogleDevelopers
sado1: anything interesting to be announced today on i/o?
sado1: android will be tomorrow afaik
maligor: I
maligor: I'm sure they'll have something interesting
Megagun: Steam for ChromeOS
maligor: Android for TV
mastertheknife: Megagun: ChromeOS is linux
mastertheknife: so as long as they make a linux client, it'll work
jumbers: No, ChromeOS is just a browser
Megagun: Quit spoiling my fun, mastertheknife. :(
Megagun: :P
DonScott: i was actually interested in Chrome OS until I found out it was basically just a big browser.
DonScott: for cloud computing
DonScott: it'd be good for a netbook i guess....with a very small hard drive.
Sir_Brizz: that's what it is meant for
d2kx: 5min until Google IO
d2kx: hopefully VP8 is a subject today, but i fear its subject of tomorrow's keynote only
d2kx: Livestream: http://www.youtube.com/googledevelopers
Sir_Brizz: yes, terrifying
Sir_Brizz: :p
maligor: It's started.. they just said they've built a deathray on the moon and want 1 billion dollars!
d2kx: i think today is mainly android 2.2 and rest tomorrow
Azalyn: hm
Azalyn: the live stream has started. there is a "standby" screen though.
d2kx: yeah 3mins to go
Azalyn: i clicked on the 720p stream. heh
Azalyn: it seems that fullscreen works, but if i try to click on another window it goes away. :\
Azalyn: (i have two monitors)
d2kx: i have the irc window on the left side of my monitor and 480p windowed stream on the right side, should be enough
d2kx: its starts
Azalyn: ya
Azalyn: volume is low.
Megagun: That's a wide screen
petabyte02: yeah they could turn up the volume a bit ...
Megagun: TURN UP THE VOLUME YOU PISS POTS
d2kx: yeah
d2kx: have all maxed out and can only just hear it
Azalyn: it's at max
Azalyn: :|
DonScott: same
Megagun: Google: giving you access to gazillions of gigabytes of information, but incapable of turning up a volume knob.
Azalyn: SURPRISES!
Azalyn: lol what io stands for. input/output, nubs.
NigeyUK: pmsl
Megagun: Suddenly, epic volume rise kills developers worldwide!
DonScott: lol
Azalyn: lol...
Azalyn: dont tell me that they're announcing vp8 NOW?
Azalyn: right off the bat
Azalyn: they're talking about html5 now
d2kx: yeah im wondering too but i heard keynote is about android 2.2 today
maligor: new form factors eh..
maligor: could be tv!
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQhsFCWTnN8&feature=player_embedded
Megagun: Well at least we now know that Google won't log all conversations near our PCs anytime soon! ;)
Megagun: please let him have a proper mic
DonScott: a surprise tomorrow morning.
Azalyn: hm
Megagun: Oh, the actual stream is low volume
d2kx: surprise = VP8 no doubt
sado1: so froyo should wait till tomorrow
mastertheknife: Megagun: This video proves all men have blue heads
mastertheknife: hehe
Azalyn: anyone want to be the first to make a racist joke about this guy's accent?
Megagun: hate-sh-tee-em-el-five?
Megagun: Did he just say twittel?
d2kx: damn the stream laggs for me
d2kx: need to do 360p
Sir_Brizz: looks purty in hd though
Sir_Brizz: :)
Azalyn: works fine for me in 720.
Azalyn: lolz, IE.
d2kx: in all modern browsers - people laugh ^^
RambJoe: lol at IE having like noting
Azalyn: XD
Azalyn: i have to rewatch that when they upload the vid later.
wait4steam: hi all. There are new steam binarys?
Sir_Brizz: new as in not available?
d2kx: no they took it offline and now go and watch http://www.youtube.com/googledevelopers
mastertheknife: wait4steam: the file is forbidden now
wait4steam: Oh :/
Sir_Brizz: this guy is a total nerd
Megagun: he's the new Carmack? :)
wait4steam: Whats that video about?
d2kx: livestream from google i/o
d2kx: VP8 announcement should be made today or tomorrow
mastertheknife: I hope steam announcement soon.. making the file forbidden might be a preparation for an announcement
Megagun: But does that app work in Lynx? D:
d2kx: mastertheknife its possible but as ive said often already, dont 100% expect it before apple WWDC is ove
wait4steam: or a "sorry there won't be steam for linux"
d2kx: wait4steam thats not gonna happen
wait4steam: Wwcd and steam on linux? I don't see the Connection
DonScott: i wanna clicker
d2kx: wait4steam apple will talk proudly about steam on that event no doubt
maligor: DonScott, huh?
RambJoe: i just noticed they are using XP lol
sado1: wait4steam: you really think apple wants people to focus on steam for linux when they talk about steam on mac
wait4steam: still no connection to linux
wait4steam: Hmm
wait4steam: could be the point
Megagun: The real question, though.. Is why the hell do this kind of thing in a damned browser?
DonScott: why not
d2kx: Megagun: because it works everywhere specially with android and chrome os etc
Megagun: Speed issues maybe?
d2kx: everywhere, except windows/internet explorer that is
maligor: yeah, the clicker.tv interface is a bit stupid
Megagun: It's nice tech, sure, but... I don't know :P
maligor: it's impressive as a html5 tech demo
sado1: here comes vp8?
Azalyn: VP8 !
maligor: but I don't see it being practical
sado1: vp8!
maligor: heh
asraniel: wait for it!
Azalyn: he's talking about video
Megagun: yep
Ivanovic: here it comes!
Megagun: if only I could hear the dude
maligor: mpeg1!
asraniel: dum dum
sado1: wma!
maligor: wma is audio
sado1: wmv*!
sado1: yeah ;d
Azalyn: OH SHIT
asraniel: gif!
Megagun: ONE hUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLAWLS
Megagun: ascii art!
d2kx: oh yes :D
Megagun: <(^ ^<)
Megagun: (>^ ^)>
asraniel: zipped ascii art i hope ;)
Ivanovic: aalib ftw
Azalyn: FUCK YES
asraniel: jeah
d2kx: YES
RambJoe: :D
Midler: wow
DonScott: royalty free w00t
Ivanovic: YES!
sado1: yeah
Hideme: I have multiple hard drives in my system, how do I select which one I'd like to benchmark in PTS?
Azalyn: HELL. FUCKING. YES.
asraniel: oh!
asraniel: good
Megagun: epic widescreen is epic
Midler: no, fucking yes no hell
Azalyn: those bastards, they actually did it :D
d2kx: flash on youtube = die
Azalyn: MPEGLA = PWNED>
wait4steam: What happened?
Megagun: YAY KITTEN VIDEOS :D
d2kx: wait4steam google opensourced VP8 and will use it for youtube etc
maligor: broad industry support... does that include apple?
RambJoe: as of today
Azalyn: holy shit, they've already started converting vids
sado1: vp8 will be open sourced and likely to be implemented in firefox, opera, chrome=die flash on youtube.
RambJoe: when will firefox get
asraniel: laalala :)
asraniel: hates flash
mastertheknife: d2kx: and when is that WWDC event?
Azalyn: dude, MOZILLA IS IN ON THE CONSPIRACY
Azalyn: they KNEW.
Azalyn: those bastards
d2kx: mastertheknife 8. june i think
mastertheknife: d2kx: Valve won't wait that long to make an announcement
mastertheknife: d2kx: Valve doesn't care about Apple
d2kx: mastertheknife maybe maybe not
Megagun: Bah, this volume thing is pissing me off
RambJoe: why was there a random mid sentence clap lol
Guest64539: WTF Why hasn't Steam been announced yet?
RambJoe: what is that browser :|
d2kx: minefield = mozilla trunk
RambJoe: i know but is that version 4
Guest64539: Minefield=somewhere you don't want to go.
asraniel: hehe, already nightly builds :)
RambJoe: im using namoraka now lol
Guest64539: I use Midori.
d2kx: lol
RambJoe: lol talk
Guest64539: ROTFLMFAO so funny!
d2kx: opera fail
RambJoe: lolol
Guest64539: I would use Firefox if it worked with gnome2-globalmenu
d2kx: he is nervous
Azalyn: i wonder if the file extension will be .wm
Midler: lol
Megagun: