Phoronix IRC Log: 2010-05-18
oxichroohiday: AnonTalk.se oxichroohiday maikmerten Flyser_ Kulag DeathCrawler superdump bacatta babai giselher Morten_ kurros Galaxy| tkmorris elfgoh giLL0r_ side88 Ivanovic Wagoo trunkwontopen cmdrk gitano|away dmb mattgirv AdrianBroher micket ackondro bmunger jrgp mamalujo_ pdusen TheUni jvizzle SWAT Nevtus Sir_Brizz wirechief jayne riisen ipx stulda c0nv1ct yuastnav TobiasTheCommie Oli``` sannn Kame rvalles CME F-GT zeroedout s_20 Varkk Ranakah krull_ Megagu
oxichroohiday: AnonTalk.se Tigge hylas mystix_2004 JEEB FireEgl tootroot mastertheknife Urgleflogue Cooshie thelinx Alam_Squeeze rsk jumbers Asy waninkoko GNU\colossus InfoAddict muedhiver r4 Kvisle Kovensky Azalyn robotti^ wereHamster jrdnyquist michaellarabel Igneous Heliwr grim Wicked markatto speed47 oxez Sir_Gallantmon wao olujicz Lattyware chmouel Wowi Sleepy_Coder bluekoala Davidian1024 LinDon|afk Wicla Rednaxela Gnurdux sefokuma The_Muh Bruners bullfinch
oxichroohiday: AnonTalk.se FuturePilot Miek Aondo Poka64 Roffnan LordHavoc fallenwizard znider phxlogger eddieate andar arab redeeman extnct xorl rektide anders Milyardo bkero mjr AbizzalsX libv ebbex
DonScott: something happened to my windows buttons
Morten_: the amount of spam is, sadly, increasing rapidly here on freenode :(
DonScott: as in they are gone.
jumbers: It's always increasing
Heliwr: all this highlighting spam I have seen the past few days seems to be coming from one source
jumbers: Yes, anontalk.se
jumbers: Pedo forum
Heliwr: how has this idiot not been jailed by now?
jumbers: I dunno, go look it up on EncyclopediaDramatica
jumbers: They have a huge article on it
jumbers: Anonymous has been trying to take them down for a while now
Heliwr: I did, I still can't fathom how the police haven't taken an interest in him - it seems his identity is known
jumbers: Probably technicalities
jumbers: How did Pirate Bay last so long?
jumbers: They had more evidence against them and lasted forever
Heliwr: I can't consider content pirates and pedophiles as equivalent criminals
jumbers: The method in which they're doing so is similar though
jumbers: No content is on the site, it's links
jumbers: If they were hosting it, they'd be gone in no time
Heliwr: people suck
DonScott: they shut down pirate bay servers but pirate bay just moves to another one.
jumbers: That's what anontalk.se does
jumbers: They need to go after the guy, not the site
jumbers: Or just let Anonymous deal with it, putting pedobear stickers on his door and such
plantain: everyone says steam on linux is confirmed from valve
plantain: but I don't see any actual press release from valve stating so
jumbers: They haven't put one out yet
jumbers: But apparently The Telegraph received word directly from Valve
tkmorris: Steam for linux is confirmed?
jumbers: Somebody emailed The Telegraph asking for their source for the comment that Valve confirmed it, and that person got an email back saying Valve was their source for that info
Kvisle: jumbers: who's "Somebody" ?
jumbers: Somebody from this IRC. I don't know who
jumbers: You can email The Telegraph yourself if you'd like
plantain: so has there been any indepentant verification from valve?
tkmorris: also: http://cl.ly/15Yu
plantain: yeah that doesn't convince me
jumbers: tkmorris: ??
plantain: games like WoW got all the way to working linux clients too, but weren't ever released
jumbers: Valve is not going to confirm anything to people that email them
xorl: how are you guys so blind to see, why would they put a publically accessible linux client up that's in development?
tkmorris: jumbers: Half Life 2 checks uf you're running GNU/Linux
jumbers: Go email Gabe. You'll either get no reply or "Thanks for the suggestion"
jumbers: No company will give the scoop for a new product/service to somebody emailing a question
xorl: jumbers: errr they do it all the time...
xorl: that's how the 21st century is.
jumbers: Maybe by accident
xorl: Everyone communicates via email.
plantain: if they actually are releasing it, why not mention it in any of their other press releases about it coming soon for OS X etc
DonScott: no but it lets them know there is interest in a linux client
tkmorris: jumbers: sometimes it does, but you have to sign some NDAs
xorl: which they send over via email in PDF form haha
jumbers: You're clearly missing my point
xorl: then you fax em back and they just send you a preformatted document with what's coming up
jumbers: Sure, everybody communicates via email, that's not what I'm talking about
xorl: I've gone through it before when I worked for Sony Online
tkmorris: if your point doesn't include "No company", I am
jumbers: If I email Valve: "Hey, so Steam for Linux is coming out soon right?" They're going to pretend they don't know what I'm talking about
tkmorris: they could send you to http://www.steamonlinux.com
xorl: jumbers: that's because youre not a media outlet.
xorl: They don't care about you as an individual.
xorl: And if you personally emailed gabe
jumbers: Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make.
xorl: you'd pry piss him off.
xorl: but I said I was from the inquierer, he'd give me an answer.
jumbers: Maybe, maybe not
xorl: that's the point
xorl: they don't tell random jackasses information
xorl: it's not credible.
jumbers: I know. That was the point I was making.
xorl: they'll tell a news source because it's credible
jumbers: Yes. I know.
xorl: like that article citing valve, theyre credible
jumbers: You're telling me exactly what I said before.
xorl: us trying to debunk them == pointless
xorl: they're more right than anyone in here
Oli```: Sir_Brizz: wtf?
Sir_Brizz: I thought people would be interested
Oli```: It's a C2D vs an i7 975EE
Sir_Brizz: no it's not
Sir_Brizz: look at the benchmark again
Sir_Brizz: it's two different tests
Oli```: I see
Morten_: very big difference indeed
Oli```: They're running both oses on both computers
Sir_Brizz: I have to point out
Galaxy|: right clicking isn't hard
Galaxy|: especially not on newer macs
rsk: really hard without a right button
Sir_Brizz: NOTICE: THE PREVIOUSLY POSTED IMAGE MAY BE A JOKE
Galaxy|: i know it makes sense on those moice
mjr: re: that gizmodo benchmark, what shrooms were they smoking if they ever thought that somebody would _rewrite_ a game for another platform instead of "just" porting it?
eddieate: lol you don't smoke shrooms
Sir_Brizz: you could mash them up and wrap them I guess
mjr: eddieate, my point exactly
skyhirider: anyone here knows if i can use an sql database for storing user accounts for shares in samba?
eddieate: mjr: ;)
jumbers: Oh, my aching internets
NigeyUK: mornin bitches
jumbers: Excuse me sir, but I am not a female dong
NigeyUK: lol gladd to hear it :P morning jumbers :D
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, no bin update again :|
jumbers: It's 2AM in Valveland
jumbers: They're not going to be updating at 2AM
NigeyUK: they already have :p
jumbers: At 2AM?
NigeyUK: thats why i said no bin updates
NigeyUK: nah bout 4 hours ago
jumbers: But they close at like 6
NigeyUK: yup, but their updates always seem to go through overnight
NigeyUK: must be an auto thing
LordHavoc: the amount of spam is, sadly, increasing rapidly here on freenode :(
LordHavoc: could make the channel require registration
NigeyUK: were alot of spambots on over the weekend :/
MACscr_lappy: anyone board and want to help me to create a xorg.conf on my ubuntu system so i can attemp to get my third monitor to work? =P
MACscr_lappy: i have a radeon 3200 integrated vid and a radeon 4850 pci express
babai: sudo nvidia-xconfig
babai: ididnt notice the ati
MACscr_lappy: everytime i run Xorg -configure, i get: (II) [KMS] No DRICreatePCIBusID symbol, no kernel modesetting.
MACscr_lappy: then it crashes
meGenius: who drew that image on steamonlinux.com :D
micket: Everyone keeps saying confirmed. But everywhere official it tends to say nono. Maybe I just missed it. I can't bother to browse through 40 pages on phoronix.
jumbers: It isn't confirmed
Ivanovic: jumbers: that there is no press release from valve directly is *NOT* the same as "It isn't confirmed"
mastertheknife: Valve is quiet about this
Ivanovic: jumbers: what if valve stated in a "private talk" to some papers "yeah, we are working on steam for linux"?
mastertheknife: they could have responded in forums with "There are no plans for a linux client at the moment"
Ivanovic: like eg to the uk telegraph which added that line
mastertheknife: but they are quiet with it
mastertheknife: i think they won't announce now because of the mac hype
mastertheknife: maybe in few days or next week
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: Yeah, i believe they did.
mesula: FFS I want my fucking Steam announcement already!
mesula: What's the soonest/latest dates they'll announce it?
mesula: I want an announcement before I finish my exams so that I can decide what hardware to get for my next PC.
rsk: there's is no indication whatsoever mesula
mesula: So I want an announcement by July.
mesula: rsk: Do you think there'll be one by July?
Nevtus: no ones knows except Valve mesula
mesula: Nevtus: Is there a Valve employee connected to this channel?
rsk: i can't "think" anything
Nevtus: no ones knows that either
rsk: because saying any kind of a date is a wild guess with no connection to reality
Nevtus: maybe, maybe not
mesula: That is bullwank.
mesula: Damn you Michael for getting my hopes up.
asraniel: at least he made some nice add money out of it (i suppose, with that many page visits)
mesula: asraniel: He's a lying bitch.
NigeyUK: hi nikakoi
NigeyUK: bye nikakoi
Azalyn: lol @ smoking shrooms.
Azalyn: plantain: i read the chat buffer from earlier. i should mention that the telegraph is a pretty reputable news source... the paper was founded in 1855
Azalyn: if you're american, you can think of them as being as high profile as the new york times.
Azalyn: if they say they got confirmation, they probably did. but valve might not want to make an announcement themselves yet, and are instead waiting for hype to build.
RambJoe: whats the best make for monitors
Azalyn: [03:29:50] http://gizmodo.com/5540716/steam-for-mac-benchmarks-windows-is-much-faster?skyline=true&s=i
Azalyn: as for that... they are retarded.
Azalyn: heh, as someone else points out, no one *every* 'recodes' the entire game.
Azalyn: it is always ported. whoever wrote that article doesn't appear to know anything whatsoever about programming.
Azalyn: RambJoe: tough question.. nec is superb, but in many cases you pay like an extra 200 bucks for that quality.
Nevtus: does that guy not know what the word "ported" means?
Azalyn: viewsonic, acer, benq are usually good.
Azalyn: oh, LG
Azalyn: lg is really good too from what i hear.
Azalyn: samsung too
Azalyn: samsung is considered really excellent.
RambJoe: ok thaknks
RambJoe: hmm lg have an LED one
RambJoe: lol my samsung i faulty
Azalyn: i don't think benq even makes monitors anymore, so maybe you should scratch that one. they seem to have mostly projectors.
Azalyn: well, if you're looking for a vendor that has 0% defects, maybe you should shop on another planet.
Azalyn: because here on earth, there is no such thing. :)
Azalyn: not with today's manufacturing technology anyways.
RambJoe: well i'd have to get a different one, looks like although i got it a month ago its discontinued
Nevtus: I have an acer monitor, never had any problems with it in the 1 1/2 I've had it
Azalyn: in the future they might be able to do it, who knows.
Nevtus: *1 1/2 years
Azalyn: acer is pretty high profile these days. they are selling a lot.
Azalyn: but in terms of quality i believe samsung is better.
Nevtus: if I were buying a tv I'd go Samsung
RambJoe: i really regret getting a vga one lol
Azalyn: by quality i mean image quality by the way, the circuitry is usually fine for all the vendors i mentioned.
Azalyn: it is the panel that really matters.
Azalyn: that's where the magic happens.
RambJoe: is dvi a lot better than vga
Nevtus: better support these days, more modern
Azalyn: nec's visual quality is apparently crazy, the color fidelity is unmatched from what i've read. and their monitors are used for all digital design and art-related stuff.
Azalyn: but yeah, you are going to pay a heavy price for that.
Nevtus: RambJoe: it's hard to notice much difference between DVI and VGA though
Azalyn: DVI's advantage is that it's digital.
RambJoe: thanks :)
Azalyn: in theory, if you have good cables, you should not notice a difference between vga and dvi
RambJoe: hmm could the cable cause the monitor to flicker
RambJoe: like lines going up and down
Nevtus: I must have good cables then
Azalyn: however, with LCD's, VGA is not good at all. there is something that LCD's need, that VGA doesn't provide, i'm not sure exactly, i remember reading about it.
Azalyn: but it causes quality to degrade far more easily than with a CRT
Azalyn: some kind of sync that is missing
RambJoe: oh i hvae and LCD
Azalyn: because DVI is digital, in theory, the signal that is sent out, is the same that is received. binary-identical.
Azalyn: even with lower grade cables in many cases
Azalyn: this is never true with vga. even with the best cables, the signal is analog so it 'changes', although that doesn't necessarily mean it will be bad or whatever, but still.
Azalyn: anyways, DVI itself is already obsolete.
RambJoe: is hdmi better then
Azalyn: if you are buying a new monitor, i recommend you look for displayport compatibility
Azalyn: no. hdmi is just an extension of dvi. it's more or less the same.
RambJoe: then i could have 3 monitors
RambJoe: you cant get DP monitors for less tahn £300 can you :(
Azalyn: hdmi has introduced various hacks to squeeze more life out of dvi, heh.. as a result hdmi can handle higher resolutions and such.. but really, it's based on a standard that is not suitable for future expansion.
Azalyn: displayport is orders of magnitude better in it's design, it's better thought out and more future-proof.
RambJoe: ok thanks
RambJoe: is there any less than £300 then
Azalyn: as for the price, i'm not sure. i haven't shopped around for monitors recently.
Azalyn: what size do you want?
Azalyn: hm, i guess not.
Azalyn: i didn't find any 24 inch ones under 300.
RambJoe: oh :(
RambJoe: are ebuyer likely to give my money back for a faulty monitor
Azalyn: even without displayport, the cheapest monitor i found that is 24 inches is this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009245
RambJoe: thanks :)
Azalyn: as for ebay, i don't know.. depends how much feedback they have, or how reputable they are, whatever..
RambJoe: nice refresh rate :P
Azalyn: honestly though, i would never buy something like a monitor on ebay. :|
RambJoe: oh it wasn't ebay its a shop in the uk called ebuyer.com
Azalyn: you can buy certain other parts.. but not a monitor.
Azalyn: i misread.
Azalyn: well, i suppose they would either give your money back
Azalyn: or exchange for a working one
Azalyn: although that monitor i linked isn't 16:10 though.
Azalyn: i personally demand PC monitors that are 16:10.
RambJoe: yeah i cant find any decent monitors that are 16:10 :(
Miek: depends what you mean by faulty. if it's stuck pixels or something they'll probably have some policy to get out of it, otherwise they should replace it
RambJoe: its like flickering with lines going up/down
Azalyn: seems like samsung is the only option.
Azalyn: for 16:10
Azalyn: but at that point, you're past the 300 dollar range.
RambJoe: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150964 thats mine
RambJoe: looks like they jacked the price again
Azalyn: i like that one personally.
Azalyn: it's expensive though
RambJoe: well similar, they got the specs wrong anyway, mine has 50000:1 dynacmic contrast and only vga
Azalyn: at that price i'd be better off finding one with displayport.
RambJoe: hmm that is pretty much like mine except the stand is higher
Azalyn: oh shit
Azalyn: you crazy brits. you confused me
Azalyn: i thought you said 300 dollars usd.
Azalyn: but you're talking british pounds.
Azalyn: i just converted it. that's like $433 USD
Azalyn: the samsung i just linked is $400 USD
Azalyn: that monitor can even be rotated
Azalyn: that would be cool for reading comics or something.
RambJoe: damn why is everything 1080 now :(
Azalyn: because it's less expensive to manufacture, and stupid rubes keep buying them anyways.
Azalyn: a PC should really be 16:10 in my opinion. since operating systems have panels which take up extra room.
somename: not all... openbox ftw
Azalyn: by the way, i am shocked that there are still monitors on the industry that only have VGA
Azalyn: openbox isn't an OS. :)
RambJoe: lol i can't believe i bought two
somename: but can be a part of it
somename: it doesnt need a pane
Azalyn: i want to stick with the crappy monitor i have now.
Azalyn: until i can afford to buy a NEC
Azalyn: or two!
Azalyn: OR THREE.
somename: or three
somename: or four
somename: or 42
babai: I couldnt boot to x on ubuntu karmic on my vga monitor
Azalyn: something like that
RambJoe: you can have 48 cant you
RambJoe: with the new 12 port coming out
Azalyn: well, you laugh... but the displayport standard actually supports daisy-chaining monitors together.
Azalyn: so with one port, you could have a few monitors connected
Azalyn: as long as you don't go over the bandwidth that displayport supports.
Azalyn: and it's max bandwidth right now with displayport v1.2 is is 17.2 Gbit/s
Azalyn: which is more than three times as fast as usb 3.0
Kano: michaellarabel: did you notice that ati silently replaced the 10-4 installer
RambJoe: i want
RambJoe: too scared to install, last time it messed up my pc
Kano: its very unlikely that ati can release a file thats generated on 29th on 28th april
Kano: before the file was from 15th
Kano: no announcement of that silent update was done
Kano: thats NOT normal
Azalyn: here's the nec monitor i found before. same price as the samsung! http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002462
Azalyn: Kano: i know that the new radeon cards are really impressive... but geez, they can do time travel too!? :O
Ivanovic: RambJoe: there are displays with DP for less than 300£
Ivanovic: as you see they do start below 100€
Ivanovic: sorry, had no sorting active
Ivanovic: those are displays port displays that you can get for <=300€ (since your line was 300£ you should have some spare room for shipping costs): http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=monlcd19wide&bpmax=300&v=e&plz=&dist=&sort=p&xf=100_DisplayPort
Ivanovic: there is even a 24" display in this list, an HP with 1920x1200
Azalyn: great, now all we have to do is be able to read it.
Ivanovic: the display names should be identical to those in other areas of the world
maligor: that list even has a IPS and PVA
RambJoe: thanks :)
Ivanovic: and most technical terms are international anyway...
Ivanovic: (that is with the measure unit you easily get what it is)
Ivanovic: the rest can be looked up in online dics like eg http://dict.leo.org/
maligor: the ZR22w.. curious
nigel_: Games that will be made available to the Linux community are listed below.
nigel_: * World of Goo
nigel_: * Quake Wars
nigel_: * Unreal Tournament 2004
nigel_: * Doom 3
nigel_: We can also now safely say that these games below will also be made available for the Linux peeps later on.
nigel_: * Counter Strike
nigel_: * Half Life 2
nigel_: * Team Fortress 2
Ivanovic: nigel_: most likely "only" CS:Source
Ivanovic: but yeah, the list *is* likely
Ivanovic: the first games already do have a linux version available
nigel_: love to know where they gor the games list
Ivanovic: the 2nd list is stuff that valve is most likely to port
Ivanovic: since those are their platform sellers
nigel_: afaik CS:S and TF:" are already ported to opengl, so yeah, wouldnt be any surprise to see them on linux at all
Nevtus: if the clients comes it would be a surprise not to
maligor: probably pulled the list out of their bottoms
RambJoe: so its more speculation based on telegraph?
Ivanovic: RambJoe: and if you want to have a list with "no tn panel" (going up to 350€ now, so 300£ without shipping): http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=monlcd19wide&bpmax=350&v=e&plz=&dist=&sort=p&xf=106_IPS~106_PVA~100_DisplayPort~106_MVA
nigel_: dunno, tis the first time ive seen a specific list from anyone
Ivanovic: from your link, NigeyUK|: "This news is almost official as various big-time news outlets have already reported about this. We are all just waiting for Valve to make a statement about this."
Nevtus: I think that link is just listing the games mentioned in the third paragraph here on phoronix - http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_steam_announcement&num=1
Ivanovic: what is likely: games that already *do* have a linux version and got their windows or mac version in steam will also appear in steam with their linux version
maligor: weird response the nec has.. 14ms.. I wonder if that's the real max response
NigeyUK|: or maybe some sites have been contacted and have published a little to early.
Ivanovic: unless a different company did the porting (eg sacred: gold was not done by the original publisher, so it is less likely to appear for linux steam)
RambJoe: so £273 + shipping to UK :)
RambJoe: thanks will thnk abut it
Ivanovic: RambJoe: you just have to search the right way and it is easy to find stuff
Azalyn: maligor: most companies lie about their response times.
Azalyn: toms hardware i believed did a deconstruction of that
NigeyUK|: mastertheknife :)
Azalyn: it's similar to the whole deception with 'real' contrast ratio vs 'dynamic' contrast ratio
Azalyn: i guess nec is just more honest.
maligor: I know what g2g response is
babai: you dont need less than 16ms resoponse
maligor: babai, depends on what the value means
maligor: it's g2g, then 14ms is very high
babai: if ur set to 60hz at max res, then anything under cannot be detected
maligor: it could be that the display isn't overdriven I guess
maligor: no, it's typical response
christian_lappy: ah..is michael off today..
RambJoe: would i be able to see gradients better on a dvi monitor
Sir_Brizz: bins update?
christian_lappy: my wlan sucks
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: any new files other than steamclient and libtier0_s ?
Sir_Brizz: nope just steamclient.so
Sir_Brizz: public_all update too
Sir_Brizz: I get lots of these
Sir_Brizz: Errors in public/subpanelwelcomeintro.res:
Sir_Brizz: error loading file 'public/subpanelwelcomeintro.res',
Sir_Brizz: they are all case sensitivity issues
Kano: just fix it and create a bspatch
Sir_Brizz: I would if I had enough time
d2kx: Sir_Brizz: i have the manifest file bookmarked and check regularly, trust me whenever there's a new update I have already checked it ;)
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: those are case sensitive errors
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: that error you just posted, its fixed in vgui2_2a patch, apply it
christian_lappy: i want an announcment now
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: The problem is that a function that loads those files calls tolower() while the filenames aren't named that way.. in the patch the call to tolower() was removed and now it finds the files
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/view/0UmBOBf27q/latest
d2kx: i wonder what updates valve will release to the mac tomorrow, as wednesday are the new patchdays for steam mac games ^^
christian_lappy: i bet for tf2
mastertheknife: I think tf2 too.
Kano: quantz/steam is much cheaper than the original homepage
DonScott: uh oh
Kano: did somebody notice that
christian_lappy: quantz ?
DonScott: wine broke steam or steam is broke.
Azalyn: i ran it just yesterday
Azalyn: you need some fonts from windows.
DonScott: Failed to load web page (unknown error).-2Failed to load web page (unknown error).
Azalyn: arial.tff i think.
DonScott: i get that when i click on community
christian_lappy: Kano: is there a native version for us ?
Kano: christian_lappy: in many cases you can exchange the binary by the demo
christian_lappy: Kano: so there IS a native linux version ?
Kano: yes, but it costs much more money
Kano: i prefer to buy the game not the specific binary...
christian_lappy: yeah, sure
Kano: also it would be very logical that you would get it as linux game as soon as steam/linux starts
DonScott: yeah, most likely
mastertheknife: I wonder how does he do it.
mastertheknife: sounds awesome
Kano: startx -- $(which appname) :1
Kano: you could run xterm and use that to start too
Kano: startx $(which appname) -- :1
Kano: thats the right order
Kano: xterm is so minimal it should not hurt ;)
mastertheknife: So simple.. cool :)
mastertheknife: but that will work? the started X will probably have no GUI or anything
Kano: sure thats the purpose
mastertheknife: no WM*
mastertheknife: I mean.. what will decorate the windows if no KDE or Gnome is running? etc
Kano: icewm or twm could be used if the game does not run fullscrren
Kano: but i would not run gnome or kde twice
manaphuun: i did that seperate x server thing back when i was on opensuse
manaphuun: but i havent tried it in a while
Kano: basically when you dont use the $(...) then you get your default wm just a 2nd time
mastertheknife: Kano: Thing is how to modify steam to launch on different X
Kano: you usually use a wrapper script
Kano: basically xinit can be used too, but thats needs root rights. maybe there is another laucher too
d2kx: another steamclient.so update just released... how borig
Kano: mastertheknife: just run xterm, then compiz --replace &
Kano: that should do it
RambJoe: hmm you can get the source code for source if you have any hl2 game right?
RambJoe: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1481378&page=273rd down
RambJoe: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1481378&page=27 3rd down
d2kx: let me quote "I have the source code for DOS 6.22 to Windows NT 6.1, all builds of Mac OS, and Yoshi's Island (actually, very short and simple)."
d2kx: and no you dont get the source code of the actual engine but some code and tools to do mods etc
RambJoe: you think hes bsing?
Daekdroom: You do?
xorl: I do.
Daekdroom: Really? DOS 6.22 to WinNT 6.1?
xorl: Dos 6.22 has been leaked forever.
Kano: well a troll
xorl: even I have the zip file of that when it was leaked early 2001
Daekdroom: xorl, what matters is anything that is between it and WinNT 6.1 itself?
xorl: Just because people say something on a forum, doesn't mean you should believe it.
xorl: I could say I am fucking warren buffet right now, you couldn't disprove me.
xorl: You could say "Bullshit" but that does that help?
xorl: Note: Fine grain of salt.
xorl: but what does that*
Megagun: I'M GABE
Megagun: STEAM ON LINUX CONFIRMED
xorl: haha, see exactly?
Megagun: now quit bugging me and let me eat my sandwich >:(
xorl: You could bullshit the world over the internet and say you're anyone.
xorl: People on a forum are fucking trolls, don't listen to their opinions or statements unless you hear facts from a legit cited source.
RambJoe: lol i did half believe but tehn when i saw the other stuff he was saying
xorl: Otherwise, they're just puffing smoke up the publics ass and not helping us go anywhere.
xorl: Believe what you want to, but only listen to the facts, you can find them yourself.
christian_lappy: what shall we do with steam then now ;-) ?
d2kx: steam... tomorrow it's all about the Google IO and what happens to VP8
christian_lappy: Vp8 to GPL !
christian_lappy: but whats google IO ?
d2kx: this is one thing, the other is if they will integrate it for youtube
d2kx: Google IO is their major conference where they will talk VP8, Android 2.2 (will be released also), Google TV, maybe the Google Tablet, and other subjects
christian_lappy: d2kx: why biy vp8 and not use it ?
d2kx: there are always livestreams of the event, i think it starts 7pm german time (19:00 uhr), just look at twitter trending topics shortly before
Ivanovic: christian_lappy: there is a difference between using vp8 and using vp8 exclusively
Ivanovic: (for hd stuff that is)
sado1: what's vp8, that vid codec?
christian_lappy: h264 replacement afaik
d2kx: google hasnt even said they are open sourcing VP8, they have said nothing. but there are rumours and often those rumours are true
christian_lappy: more likely than steam ;-)
christian_lappy: a google arm tablet would rock
RambJoe: don't we find out tomorrow
d2kx: i wouldnt be surprised if valve wouldnt announce steam before apples WWDC event is over in early june
RambJoe: e3 is in june
christian_lappy: d2kx: sounds reasonible
d2kx: Steve Jobs: "Steam is avaible for Mac, you don't need Windows." a day later, Gabe Newell "and while we're at it, here's Linux support"
achtung_: I still do not understand how an article in the Telegraph confirms Steam for Linux. Can someone tell me if there is more?
christian_lappy: not that i know of
d2kx: youtube also celebrates 5 years existance this week, so it is not unlikely google will announce vp8 plans for it tomorrow
d2kx: ok time for dinner and dr. house
christian_lappy: nah, simpsons
christian_lappy: then 2andahalf+scrubs
RambJoe: the onion networks should so a steam linux article
RambJoe: http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/18/the-onion-google-whisper-ads-detect-keywords-in-phone-calls/ lol
Kvisle: "this will FINALLY be the year of linux on the desktop!"
Bruners: Kvisle: why ?
Kvisle: Bruners: you're not familiar with the onion, are you?
Bruners: Kvisle: nope
DonScott: quantz is a pretty nice game....just tried the demo.
DonScott: has anyone played around with the illumination software creator yet ?
mastertheknife: lol, saving 1 cent
GNU\colossus: bargain alert
mastertheknife: not my screenshot.. dont have windows, surely don't have iTunes and definitely not AIM :P
MACscr_lappy: RambJoe: how do i install that newest kernel anyway
Tazer: damn you lucid/wacom compatibility
Tazer: damn yooooou
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: you can go toi the steam store and see that anyway :)
MACscr_lappy: eh, after reading a bit more about mainline kernels, it might be best that i stay away from them. =P I really dont know much about configuring modules for kernels, etc
RambJoe: just open the deb
RambJoe: how easy ist to upgrade kernal on arch linux
RambJoe: i might install it :P
Ivanovic: RambJoe: so have you found a nice display for you?
RambJoe: um i don't think its my display actaully
RambJoe: its either the vga lead
RambJoe: or graphics card potr
RambJoe: i tried on another vga monitor lol
Ivanovic: if i had the money i'd love this display: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a295188.html
Ivanovic: (a friend got this one, it is really nice)
Ivanovic: though my current 24" screen is still okay and i will probably continue using it for some more time
Shunt31: Is it just me or is my nick gray?
Shunt31: No pun intended
Ivanovic: it's just you and it depends probably only on your irc client
maligor: your love's are cheap: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a305006.html
RambJoe: cool how much is that
Ivanovic: yeah, those are *really* damn expensive ones
Ivanovic: though it does lack display port!
RambJoe: um damn i dunno if i still want my monitor although its not faulty
RambJoe: VGA :(
Ivanovic: no digital output available on your graphics card?
Ivanovic: or does your display simply not have dvi/hdmi/DP?
RambJoe: my display is VGA only
RambJoe: graphics card has dvi i think
Ivanovic: ah, either a rather cheap display or a damn old one
RambJoe: although hopefully i will get a new one in september or something
RambJoe: it was £180, pricing error
maligor: or a damn old cheap display
RambJoe: it was meant to be likt £215
RambJoe: got a month ago
maligor: odd that they'd do vga only inputs at that price
Ivanovic: RambJoe: which display is that one?
Ivanovic: sounds like some really cheap acer 24"
RambJoe: logging into ebuyer now
RambJoe: its confusing as they got the specs wrong
RambJoe: it actually has 50000:1 dynamic contrast
RambJoe: they also put it upto £215 then making me pay 201.11 for my second which i ordered at £182.36 (ordered a few days after i got my first)
maligor: oh, a samsung
Ivanovic: yeah, one of the cheapest 24" with 1920x1200
Ivanovic: sad that they still produce vga only displays for those resolutions
Ivanovic: (since there it does make a *real* difference in image quality)
RambJoe: they have only a few 1920x1200 monitors :(
RambJoe: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150970 better?
maligor: looks like a tv
RambJoe: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150964 VERRY similar to mine, lower contrast, although i swear it used to be £180 too
RambJoe: yeah lol
RambJoe: i blame all this "HD" shit for the 1920x1080 monitors
maligor: well, samsung does make decent displays
Ivanovic: in fact many displays these days come with a samsung panel
RambJoe: does dynamic contrast mean anything
Ivanovic: most panels these days come from samsung or lg/philips anyway
Ivanovic: RambJoe: ignore dynamic contrast, it is b******t anyway
RambJoe: oh :(
Ivanovic: (that is: the values you see are not too important and you should not trust in them at all)
RambJoe: ah well they've found a way to make 50" OLEDs in under two minutes so i'll get one of those monitors when they're out :D
maligor: dynamic contrast only helps when there's uniform level changes
Ivanovic: in fact for me most of the "image enhancement" technics in modern tvs tend to make the images look worse in my eyes
maligor: dynamic contrast isn't a bad idea as such
maligor: it's just how they use it in advertising
maligor: it doesn't improve contrast by the ridiculous claims
maligor: and it's not really a "image enhancement"
Ivanovic: maligor: i am not just talking about dynamic contrast
Ivanovic: but many of those features that modern lcd tvs come with
Ivanovic: enhanced color space or stuff like this
RambJoe: should i disable stuff like
RambJoe: magic color then
maligor: can't remember what magic color was
RambJoe: and magicbright
maligor: I seem to have MagicBright set to custom
maligor: this is a bit older samsung tho, 215TW
maligor: suffers from quite a lot of input lag, but wonderful display other than that
MACscr_lappy: RambJoe: i thought certain modules/drivers needed to be configured as well
Ivanovic: i am using this one: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test-dell-2405fpw.html
MACscr_lappy: RambJoe: as in to use those mainline kernels
RambJoe: i want this one http://www.ebuyer.com/product/198981
Sleepy_Coder: dynamic contrast ratio sucks :<
Sleepy_Coder: isn't buying any of this minorly updated shit until OLED monitors are out
Sleepy_Coder: Reasonably priced OLED monitors... T.T
Sleepy_Coder: I mean, I was even thinking about getting a bigger monitor that was still about the same quality just as a minor "upgrade" between now and then, but I found that most of the monitors I was looking at I couldn't disable dynamic contrast ratio on
Sleepy_Coder: What a bullshit hack for truer blacks.
Sleepy_Coder: And then ASUS started rating their dynamic contrast ratio on their monitors to their own scale.
Sleepy_Coder: How low can you get?
Sleepy_Coder: LOL 1,000,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio
Sleepy_Coder: stabs at the air
Sleepy_Coder: And you can never find smaller monitors with huge resolutions :\ Only on laptops it seems.
Sleepy_Coder: I want a 22" monitor with like... the crazy 2560x1200 resolution (not sure if the vertical is correct as I havne't used a monitor with a res that high)
Sleepy_Coder: I want a much higher dpi rating.
Sleepy_Coder: I mean, I set only 2 feet away, maybe a little more, I want to be incapable of counting the pixels on my screen.
Sleepy_Coder: I want sub-pixel rendering to be a thing of the past :<
Sleepy_Coder: I want my fonts to look like goddamn marble
Sleepy_Coder: MAKE IT CRISP
Daekdroom: Sounds futile.
Sleepy_Coder: throws a tantrum about the overpriced crap on the market
Daekdroom: is satisfied with his old 1440x900 19" wide LCD
Sleepy_Coder: DPI atm is 90 :<<<
Sleepy_Coder: Not even standard 96.
Sleepy_Coder: I cry now.
Sleepy_Coder: It's like they expect us to be viewing these monitors from four feet back or something.
Sleepy_Coder: Computer f-cking monitors.
mattgirv: Sleepy_Coder: Surely your DPI is based around your screen size and resolution, no?
Sleepy_Coder: These aren't TVs.
mattgirv: I thought that was the case, since forever.
Daekdroom: mattgirv, yes
Sleepy_Coder: 1680x1050 @ 22"
RambJoe: arch linux 10.05 is out
mattgirv: Sleepy_Coder: Aye, same here.. but 90 looks fine to me.
Sleepy_Coder: I just want the same physical screen space with a higher resolution :(
Sleepy_Coder: mattgirv: I'm over-anal about my fonts ;x
mattgirv: I'm pretty sure there are a few 1080p 22" screens out there.
RambJoe: whats the best desktop envireonment for arch
Sleepy_Coder: Everywhere I can see a clear division between the pixels on a character....
Sleepy_Coder: Le argh.
Azerthoth: RambJoe, what ever one works for you
Sleepy_Coder: I even got cleartype working on Linux.
Sleepy_Coder: Not very documente dI thinks T.T
Daekdroom: I have 88 dpi and I'm satisfied.
RambJoe: hmm i'll try openbox
Varkk: I just want a 19inch 1440x1050 LCD like my old laptop, but all I see is widescreen thesedays
mattgirv: Is it just me that gets terrible ghosting with sub-pixel rendering?
Sleepy_Coder: Hmm might be just you ;p
Sleepy_Coder: How would you describe the ghosting?
Daekdroom: Probably yes.
mattgirv: Heh, well actually it isn't so much ghosting as an offset of colour.
Sleepy_Coder: I can see that.
Sleepy_Coder: I don't think it's bad, but I have seen it.
mattgirv: It isn't terrible... but I just prefer it off tbh.
mastertheknife: Heh. I have a samsung 226BW, anyone remembers these?
Sleepy_Coder: I just want a DPI of something like... 130
mattgirv: It hurts my eyes after a while with monospaced fonts.
Daekdroom: 130? O.o
mastertheknife: with the S panel, C panel and A panel fiasco
Sleepy_Coder: Yes, 130 :p
Sleepy_Coder: I love small smooth fonts <3
Sleepy_Coder: mastertheknife: f-f-f-fail? :D
mastertheknife: Sleepy_Coder: Mine is an S panel though so its good.
Tazer: ): I don't suppose anyone here would know where i should ask about getting a wacom tablet to work with Ubuntu Lucid
Azerthoth: #ububtu ?
Sleepy_Coder: Google? :x
Daekdroom: #ubuntu ,rather
Azerthoth: rather, yes
mattgirv: Tazer: Yeah or check the forums and see if anyone else is using your model.
mastertheknife: Tazer: #linux might also work
mattgirv: Tazer: You could also check out http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/
Tazer: Tried both, actually. The most I seem to get from the forums is some installation things that seem to work for most people but only half works for me ;w;
mastertheknife: #linux is more like a chat channel than a support channel but its still great.. love being there
Tazer: linux might work, worth a shot ;w;
Azerthoth: meh, we all know that linux is just ubuntu rebranded anyway's, so maybe
mastertheknife: #ubuntu has 1600 people.. nice
Azerthoth: you count those as people?
Sleepy_Coder: ONE FOR EVERY PISSED OFF OPEN SOURCE ADVOCATE
Daekdroom: Almost 1700, as a matter of fact.
NigeyUK: :o newzbin has closed?
Sleepy_Coder: My sound card is too loud :(
mastertheknife: #gentoo just 909.. oh well its a geek distro anyway
mattgirv: Heh, my small IRC window can't handle #ubuntu
Sleepy_Coder: It actually puts out 109dB.
RambJoe: what will happen if you install grub when i install arch linux if i already have it set up to use windows and ubntu
maligor: #debian has 1034
Sleepy_Coder: I might go deaf :(
NigeyUK: what card is it sleepy ?
Daekdroom: RambJoe, Arch Linux's grub will overwrite ubuntu's
Sleepy_Coder: Creative Fatal1ty Pro
Sleepy_Coder: It was $20 from a friend ;x
NigeyUK: ahh theyre kick ass cards :D
Sleepy_Coder: I was so lucky :D
NigeyUK: give me! lol
Sleepy_Coder: I just wish the Linux drivers were a bit nicer.
NigeyUK: swap you for my 1337 xfi xtreme gamer ?
mastertheknife: I heard new grub is crap, no grub.conf anymore
Sleepy_Coder: Open-source or Creative's proprietary.
mattgirv: You can select whether to install GRUB or not when you are installing Arch anyway.
mastertheknife: (grub 2.X)
Azerthoth: mastertheknife, yes but gentoo has a prerequisite for spendning much time there ... literacy
RambJoe: so how would i add arch to my current grub
Sleepy_Coder: I offset Gentoo's time requirements with better hardware.
NigeyUK: grub 2 is cack!
maligor: how good are the x-fi drivers now?
RambJoe: um gurb doesn't have boot.lst it is all in grub.cfg now
NigeyUK: maligor, they're fine for me
Sleepy_Coder: I know there was a driver included for basic playback with ALSA
Sleepy_Coder: But that's about it.
maligor: Sleepy_Coder, I just wish creative could make windows drivers
Sleepy_Coder: They don't yet support the EAX extensions or Crystallizer or all those lovely features...
maligor: they make some of the worst drivers under the sun
maligor: crystallizer is rubbish
Sleepy_Coder: Friend said they made horrible drivers for XP... on Win 7 they've been fine for me ;x
Sleepy_Coder: Crystallizer is lovely.
Sleepy_Coder: If you care about hearing the exact copy of things, disable it...
maligor: heh, yes, win7 disables most audio acceleration
Sleepy_Coder: But I think it does improve the quality quite a bit. :>
NigeyUK: crystaliser sounds great if youve got it on a nice big amp etc
Daekdroom: Your damn rich hardware lovers bastards D:
Sleepy_Coder: Tired of hearing crappy recordings from even crappier studios.
maligor: basically win7 has a system similar to pulse
Sleepy_Coder: kill me :<
Sleepy_Coder: dmix in alsa works fine for me on Linux
NigeyUK: .. /kill Sleepy_Coder
Sleepy_Coder: Don't care much about application-specific volumes
Sleepy_Coder: volume setting*
maligor: you don't need dmix for x-fi
mastertheknife: RambJoe: thats Grub 2.0, in older grub its menu.lst\grub.conf
Sleepy_Coder: hasn't used this card with Linux yet, I just know the state of their drivers
mastertheknife: RambJoe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
Sleepy_Coder: Waiting for Steam on Linux and the end of term before I correct my very broken Linux installation
RambJoe: thanks :)
Sleepy_Coder: I upgraded a ton of my hardware recently and it broke my Linux install ~somehow~...
maligor: afaik the hw mixing should work for x-fi
Sleepy_Coder: Looks like the kernel is missing SATA support, but I know it was there before... as I was using SATA before the upgrades
maligor: most recent hw use ahci, most old don't
RambJoe: you know they had that distro check in the staem client, was arch linux there?
maligor: or rather, lots of recent hardware can support ahci
NigeyUK: err.. dont think so
jumbers: It checks for distro now?
Sleepy_Coder: maligor: I just know there was a driver committed to ALSA's repo for it a year ago and there have been rejoucing user posts on forums... and then Creative still has their strange proprietary driver... but both don't support all of what the card is capable of (EAX, Cryallizer, the other odd ones I can't remember...)
jumbers: I though it only checks for OSX or Linux
Sleepy_Coder: Before the upgrade I was using dmix for software mixing, yes
NigeyUK: i think it was in an old update, then it got replaced on the may 12th update jumbers
Sleepy_Coder: I wonder if that'll change when I can fix my install.
RambJoe: it checled for debian and stuff
jumbers: I noticed it checks for Linux first now
jumbers: And OSX is an elseif
NigeyUK: oh joy cs:s finished downloading, lets see if wine is as wank as it was a month ago when i last tried it.
Oddbio: wait... was Gentoo and Ubuntu on the distro check then?
Sleepy_Coder: EAX, CMSS-3D, XFi-Crystallizer, Dolby Digital Live, DTS Connect, ...
RambJoe: i think this was in the mac file
Sleepy_Coder: And then SVM for pretty much hardware ReplayGain?
jumbers: Does anybody know if most of the bugs in the Mac version have been fixed yet?
Sleepy_Coder: the only ones I really care about are Crystallizer, CMSS, and EAX
jumbers: Once it's fairly stable, they'll probably move on to us
RambJoe: that looks different to my grub
mastertheknife: RambJoe: you have grub 2?
jumbers: I don't understand why they still haven't even fixed the preload steamui.so
RambJoe: i have 1.98
Sleepy_Coder: Because it's probably a dummy client set up to make us think they're this far behind on the Linux port.
mastertheknife: RambJoe: grub --version gives 0.97 here, no idea whats 1.98
Kano: mastertheknife: grub2
RambJoe: The program 'grub' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
mastertheknife: RambJoe: as root :P
mastertheknife: RambJoe: or use the full path
mastertheknife: RambJoe: /sbin/grub --version
mastertheknife: but it doesnt matter now :P
Kano: RambJoe: what do you try
RambJoe: bash: /sbin/grub: No such file or directory
RambJoe: i have grub-pc installed, could this be a problem?
Kano: RambJoe: thats grub2
RambJoe: um i might install arch in a minute
Kano: what do you try to do?
RambJoe: getting ready to install arch but need to know what to do with grub first :P
Kano: finds other installs automatically
Kano: using os-prober
RambJoe: oh thanks :D
RambJoe: problem is when it does that i always have like 5 ubuntus in my grub :S
Kano: that will rewrite /boot/grub/grub.cfg - you can manually place scripts that write text to /etc/grub.d
Kano: RambJoe: thats simple: remove all unused kernels
Kano: b) change /etc/default/grub
Kano: remove the # to disable rescue entries
Bruners: anyone know the status on flash 10.1 beta3? as in have they actually fixed some performance issues on linux ?
RambJoe: i do that a lot lol, but i think sometimes it auto udpates my grub and they come back
Kano: RambJoe: remember: NEVER change /boot/grub/grub.cfg manually!
RambJoe: oops lol
RambJoe: what can it do
Kano: i told you what do do
Kano: do it
RambJoe: yeah i have i mean what can happen if i change that file as i've done it loads and i might have messed something up lol
Kano: update-grub rewrites it based on the content of /etc/grub.d
Kano: i told you that already
jumbers: It appears Ubuntu is telling me it's 52° and the weather report is for bacon
RambJoe: so how long should this take to install
DonScott: lol jumbers that means foggy or misty
jumbers: I say it's bacon
jumbers: I'd love for it to rain bacon
Kano: jumbers: + eggs ;)
jumbers: Not a fan of eggs
jumbers: RambJoe doesn't like raining bacon apparently
DonScott: bacon haters
mastertheknife: Kano: IMO the grub.d files should reside in /boot to be really effective
Kano: mastertheknife: you should learn about grub2 first!
mastertheknife: Kano: what if you have multiple distros, each has its own grub.d folder and running update-grub on a new grub.cfg will delete them all?
Kano: grub.cfg is inside the partition of the distro then
mastertheknife: Kano: I think all bootloader files should reside in /boot, easiest management
Kano: the main install will update the grub.cfg based on the other partitions using update-grub
Kano: that measn when you instlal a new kernel in a sub install you have to run update-grub on the mbr grub install partition
Kano: in etc are only SCRIPTS
Kano: the bootloader files are in /boot/grub
mastertheknife: I thought grub.d is the configuration files, entries
Kano: just input files
Kano: usually shell scripts
RambJoe: damn don't ati drivers support the new kernal
Kano: RambJoe: fglrx can be used up to .34 when you use my script and put fglrx on hold
Kano: you find the instructions in the phoronix board
RambJoe: ok thanks
Kano: but you need of course headers installed
Kano: image+headers packages
RambJoe: Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: linux-headers-2.6.34-020634
SageX: sudo eat sandwich
Tazer: sudo steal
SageX: noms faster
SageX: sudo taze tazer
DonScott: this is where you yell out the infamous "don't taze me bro !"
Tazer: but aren't I a tazer to begin with? This could be akin to sex.
RambJoe: where is the fglrc script
SageX: squirtle water blast
RambJoe: it wont let me install the header?
RambJoe: got the headers intsalled, how do i install fglrx?
RambJoe: on the new kernal?
Kano: sudo -i
RambJoe: thanks :)
Kano: DISPLAY= sh install-fglrx-debian.sh -z
Kano: then reboot
Kano: you may want do
RambJoe: what is sudo -i then
Kano: echo fglrx hold|dpkg --set-selections
Kano: before reboot
Kano: man sudo ;)
RambJoe: oh sudo -i is like sudo su
kloplop321: uses sudo su
Kano: basicially it is similar, just that i prefer -i
Kano: sudo bash
Kano: would also work in theory
bkero: got his GuruPlug in the mail today, gonna run PTS on it hopefully!
RambJoe: its downloading thanks :D
RambJoe: lol gparted says my ntfs paritions are unallocated this hates me :(
RambJoe: echo fglrx hold|dpkg --set-selections doesn't do anything
Kano: you can do the same for
Kano: echo fglrx-amdcccle hold|dpkg --set-selections
Kano: apt-get dist-upgrade will not update those packages
RambJoe: doesn't say anything either :S
Kano: in the repositry the packages do not support .34
Kano: man dpkg
RambJoe: oh did taht remove it from apt
Kano: hold status
Kano: dpkg -l|grep ^h
RambJoe: ok thanks, brb restarting
RambJoe: not installed :(
Kano: dpkg -l|grep fglrx
Kano: should show 2 packages
RambJoe: hi fglrx 2:8.723-0ubuntu1 Video driver for the ATI graphics accelerato
RambJoe: hi fglrx-amdcccle 2:8.723-0ubuntu1 Catalyst Control Center for the ATI graphics
Kano: dkms status
Kano: uname -r
Kano: dpkg -l|grep 2.6.34-020634-generic
RambJoe: ii linux-image-2.6.34-020634-generic 2.6.34-020634 Linux kernel image for version 2.6.34 on x86
Kano: you did not install what i told you
Kano: you need the HEADER packages!
RambJoe: i thought i did :S
Kano: you think too much
RambJoe: oh i know i instaled the all not amd64 as amd64 didn't work before
Kano: thats a depend of the other
Kano: usally you put all 3 in a dir and then
Kano: dpkg -i *.deb
Kano: did it trigger dkms
Kano: then dkms status
Kano: should show it
RambJoe: ii linux-headers-2.6.34-020634-generic 2.6.34-020634 Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.34 on x
RambJoe: ii linux-image-2.6.34-020634-generic 2.6.34-020634 Linux kernel image for version 2.6.34 on x86
RambJoe: how was i meant to install install-fglrx-debian.sh again
Kano: if dkms status
Kano: does not show something with .34 then do
RambJoe: fglrx, 8.723, 2.6.34-020634-generic, x86_64: installed
RambJoe: thanks :)
RambJoe: brb restarting
Kano: /etc/init.d/gdm stop
Kano: and then later start
RambJoe: thanks it works :D
Kano: i basically use arch patches inside the script for this
d2kx: valve has taken the metafile offline for win32 and linux :X
d2kx: so we cant see if theres new updates anymore
Azerthoth: and soon there will be no updates
d2kx: interesting though that they nuked the win32 one too
d2kx: someone doesnt want us to see the next couple of updates it seems
andar: or maybe someone broke something
RambJoe: aww hell naww
RambJoe: didn't they take it down like 2 weeks ago
RambJoe: then put it up again a day later
d2kx: yeah but that the linux one only
RambJoe: maybe it's ready to be released :P
d2kx: haha no its not
d2kx: 17.5 hours to go until Google IO kickoff :X
RambJoe: thats still forbidden
Kano: well osx is still there
Kano: maybe they are just being updated
d2kx: the actual files seem to be removed or moved also. an hour ago, i was able to download the just released new bins_linux.zip update but its offline now http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/bins_linux.zip.c45baaf287c331883793660b2e3dee412e01c037
d2kx: 2-3 weeks ago just the manifest was removed... or they released a big new update and dont want people to see it (with webkit etc.) ^^^
RambJoe: why was it up anyway lol
d2kx: win32 is online again
d2kx: linux is also online again but now "forbidden", but its definitly there ^^
tkmorris: You don't have permission to access /public/client/steam_client_linux on this server.
Kano: well most likely 600 ;)
d2kx: Kano have you seen Unigine Heaven 2.1 is coming soon
d2kx: oh its on phoronix already
Kano: as long as there is no dl it is boring
Kano: as it should not be that ati only tesselation it is of course the opengl4 tesselation, dx11 would be stupid on linux ;)
Azalyn: hm, i wonder if there will be a live stream for google's event.
Kano: whats so interesting with g?
d2kx: Azalyn i think there will be
d2kx: the last google events always had livestreams
d2kx: never found a link on googles own site or something, but just go to twitter and click on the trending topic related to google IO some minutes before the keynote and people will post links to the livestream
Azalyn: Kano: they might announce that they are opening up VP8
d2kx: android 2.2, google tv, tablet pc etc. will also be interesting
RambJoe: will they announce android 2.2
RambJoe: oh :P
Azalyn: "To watch the keynotes, log onto the Google Developers YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/GoogleDevelopers) on Wednesday, May 19, 9:00 -10:30am PT and Thursday, May 20, 8:30-10:00am PT."
d2kx: so the latest bins_linux file that was online 2 hours ago is not online anymore, but the linux metafile shows the files still lay on the server but are forbidden which brings us to the conclusion that there was indeed an update being released, probably bigger one now... :P
d2kx: Azalyn yeah but those will be recordings not the livestream
Azalyn: no, they're saying it'll be live.
Kano: Azalyn: vp8 is not hw accellerated so no option for mobiles
Azalyn: as far as i know there are two ways of doing hardware acceleration. one is codec specific, and the other isnt.
d2kx: Kano: with flash, Chrome OS wont have hardware acceleration either
Kano: but android will get it
Azalyn: early nvidia purevideo cards actually used the shader functionality to accelerate codecs.
d2kx: yeah but so far android does not use flash for youtube
d2kx: but chrome os would
Kano: Azalyn: xv
Azalyn: it depends how the chip is designed.
Kano: xvmc was dropped then
Azalyn: in either case though, google has enough market power to get someone to make a chip to accelerate vp8. assuming it's needed.
d2kx: do you really think google would buy the company to get the VP8 codec to do fuck all with it
Kano: it would be only needed for a few years
Kano: after that h264 will be free to use any way
Azalyn: this is really the only conceivable reason they would buy that company.
Azalyn: Kano: what are you talking about? :|
Varkk: After that current codecs will be obsolete and replaced by new patent encumbered stuff
Azalyn: the mpeg2 patents haven't even expired yet. and now h264 is covered by newer patents, they will take forever to expire.
Azalyn: by then it'll be obsolete
RambJoe: stll there
d2kx: yeah this isnt linux specific though
Azalyn: but i hope that even if we lose the war this time, we wont be caught off-guard like this next time.
d2kx: try http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/bins_linux.zip.c45baaf287c331883793660b2e3dee412e01c037 it was just uploaded today now gone
Azalyn: and that we'll be ready with a better codec in advance next time
d2kx: i know kano will disagree but i cant imagine someone from google standing in front of 5000 people smiling and telling them they are releasing VP8 and that it isnt as good as H264
d2kx: so regarding the efficiency i wouldnt hold my breath
Kano: basically only firefox need h264 support
Daekdroom: Firefox won't have H264 support..
Kano: even ie9 supports h264
Kano: Daekdroom: wild fox will
d2kx: firefox wont and who cares about some future IE
Kano: many ppl use it
Azalyn: they would not have bought it if it wasn't better, or at least at a state that it 'could' be better.
Azalyn: maybe vp8 is a better *format*, but they need to work on the encoder a bit to take advantage of that.
Azalyn: after all, even if the format spec does not violate any patents, and the decoders don't violate patents... an optimized encoder could in theory still violate some patents.
Kano: well the only thing they can do is open it for firefox integration and let the use be licence free for all, then maybe even ms would adopt it
Daekdroom: I didn't know optimization was pantented.
Azalyn: so it may be that they need to clean things up like thta on the encoder side.
Kano: but you need basically something that every browser can use
Kano: if one browser says no, then the video tag is useless
Azalyn: Daekdroom: in the USA they can in theory patent almost everything... like some algorithm that is used or whatever.
Daekdroom: Azalyn, which is sad
Azalyn: Daekdroom: yeah. i know.
d2kx: In Soviet Russia, Microsoft patents YOU
Azalyn: in windows, firefox could use h264.
Azalyn: if microsoft is going to have it in IE9, then other apps will be able to use it.
d2kx: but they dont want to and who can blame them
Azalyn: but firefox probably won't do even that, out of principle.
Daekdroom: Wasn't Mozilla on a blah blah blah regarding letting outside executables get into the browser?
Azalyn: yeah i know. i stand by them.
Kano: maybe wildfox will use ffmpeg, then much more codecs would work
Azalyn: Daekdroom: that would not be an outside executable..
Daekdroom: Azalyn, well, it would be a function that doesn't belong to Firefox, you know what I mean.
Azalyn: Daekdroom: kinda.. they would just interface with directshow basically..
Azalyn: and then any dshow codec would work.
Azalyn: doesn't windows media load up in firefox these days?
Azalyn: when you're on windows?
Azalyn: and you're at a page with wmv video or a stream
Azalyn: that's pretty much the same thing. and they do it.
Kano: not for the video tag
Azalyn: i'm not talking about that
Azalyn: i'm talking about an embedded wmv video.
Kano: what else
Kano: thats media player plugin
Azalyn: or even mpeg, like in the old days.
Azalyn: yes, i know what it is.
Azalyn: but in windows, if windows media player is on the system, firefox will load it up.
Kano: the thing is that the browser will NOT need any plugins
Azalyn: and play the video.
Azalyn: i have no idea what their source is...
Azalyn: but heh
Azalyn: interesting if true.
Azalyn: even hardware partners are mentioned.
d2kx: good find Azalyn
Azalyn: one of the comments there makes a very interesting point...
Azalyn: adobe and google have been working together lately..
Azalyn: what if adobe decides to support VP8 too?
Azalyn: in the next flashplayer?
Azalyn: then... vp8 support will be in every browser even if microsoft/apple decide not to support it.
Azerthoth: duke flashplayer forever?
d2kx: so what? video with html5 is the future and all know that
Azalyn: d2kx: yeah but adobe said they were going to make tools for html5
Azalyn: or make their existing tools capable of doing html5 content
d2kx: adobe says a lot and what they actually do is putting out crap
d2kx: tbh if youtube is completely usable free of flash then adobe can go fuck off, i dont need that crap
d2kx: nor do i want it
d2kx: would be funny if VP8 is the future and then microsoft releaes their IE9 in 2011 with only h264 support
Azalyn: sure, obviously they want to milk flash as long as possible, but right now, they know that a lot of people are backing html5, hence, they've announced that their tools will have html5 support. their plugin may also be able to do this though. to bring vp8 support to all browsers. that would be a good kick in apple's face.
d2kx: it would be ridiculous but come on if one is going to do that then them
Azalyn: basically, adobe could be an ally here. we see them as the enemy because they own flash, but they *are* co-operating with google... so it's possible that they may actually support html5 fully.
Azalyn: adobe is in the market of selling tools. the truth is, their plugin doesn't matter. in fact, they already opened the flash standard.
d2kx: ahh there's just nothing like speculating about things we will know in a day anyways
Azalyn: we could have made a better plugin in all this time
Azalyn: instead of bitching about the quality of theirs
Azalyn: the gnash project has practically gone nowhere.
Modplan: adobe doesn't give a shit
Azalyn: so they may not even care if flash dies. heh
Azalyn: as long as they can seem selling their tools
Modplan: they use flash as a lock in tool to sell their tools
Azalyn: yes but as i just said, how is flash an effective lock-in tool, when they've opened the standard? they opened it just like they opened PDF.
Azalyn: honestly, the community is partly to blame for not having come up with a decent replacement all this time.
Modplan: flash? open? Seriously?
Modplan: it's hard to blame the community for not being able to create a plugin for a proprietary moving target
d2kx: Azalyn they opened some stuff a year or so again but AFAIK it was nearly nowhere enough to be usable
d2kx: i think the gnash guys said somethig like didnt even bother reading it completely because it was useless
Modplan: a year earlier they had a fund raiser to support that same thing http://www.gnashdev.org/?q=node/65
d2kx: Kano http://blog.streamingmedia.com/the_business_of_online_vi/2010/05/if-googles-vp8-news-tomorrow-includes-hardware-support-then-things-get-interesting.html
Modplan: yes I know Azalyn
Azalyn: they've opened the specifications... heh
Kano: d2kx: the if ;)
Modplan: still not open
Azalyn: listen, i hate flash as much as the next person, but seriously, half of the blame is shared by the community as well as various companies that are badmouthing adobe.
Azalyn: i mean look at google's solution to the problem. it's so obvious that it's stupid.
Modplan: yes, it's so terrible bad mouthing a company that deserves it
Azalyn: they basically put plugins into their own process, that way it is impossible for plugins to crash the browser.
Modplan: yeah, because flash is shit
Modplan: they had to because of shitty plugins (like flash)
Azalyn: you're being redundant. i already acknowledged that point.
Azalyn: but why did it take google to find a proper solution?
Modplan: the proper solution is to remove flash
d2kx: cool so flash doesnt crash the browser anymore. still the problem that it is slow as hell and buggy and it sucks and i wish it would die.
Azalyn: no, because the entire idea of plugins, is that it's third party code. you can never trust third party code to behave well. hence, you should have a separate thread or process for it.
Azalyn: so that it does not put your application at risk.
Modplan: because of shitty plugins like flash :)
Azalyn: google has the right idea. and that is why mozilla is going in the same direction.
Daekdroom: Good lord.
micket: I fail to see how this somehow makes an excuse for flash?
Daekdroom: Firefox with each plugin on its own process? I need to buy more RAM
Azalyn: chrome is faster than any other browser...
Azalyn: and more resource efficient.
Azalyn: what are you talking about? :|
Daekdroom: What I'm talking about is that I can't get used to Chrome.
Daekdroom: and Firefox doesn't bother me so much....
d2kx: chrome is amazing but it still lacks proper adblock support. the only thing, and i mean really the only thing i dont like about it
Azalyn: well, i doubt the reason you can't get used to it is because it uses multiple processes...
Azalyn: that is something completely transparent to the user
Daekdroom: In fact, that's not the reason.
Daekdroom: Despite not denying it has horrible memory management, I still believe Firefox is a valid option..
Daekdroom: Hell, I used to run Songbird that had an even slower startup.
Rednaxela: likes how in Chrome, one can kill offending plugins (i.e. Flash) without killing the rest of the browser... :)
Azalyn: also, i'm not even making excuses for flash. i am saying that we've really got worse shit to worry about. adobe is the least of the problems out there. i still think microsoft and apple are far worse.
Azalyn: and the specification for it *is* open...
Daekdroom: I can't blame Microsoft. They're only unable to play the nice guys like Google does.
Modplan: there's more to flash than just swf and flv
Rednaxela: Still better than the whole docx fiasco though
Azalyn: actionscript... :|
Kano: Rednaxela: firefox 3.6.4 beta can do the same
Azalyn: which is also out.
Rednaxela: Kano: Yeah, I heard
Kano: i use this since the first beta
Azalyn: eh? seriously?
Kano: before it was a mod for 3.6.3
Azalyn: the multi-process stuff is already there?
Azalyn: is it just for plugins?
d2kx: 3.6.4 is what they planned as 3.7
Azalyn: or tabs as well?
d2kx: plugins only
Daekdroom: What bothers me is that, regardless of the outcome, there'll always be something to complain about.
Kano: well maybe you need another lang
d2kx: Daekdroom: stuff to complain about = exciting things to look forward to upon problem resolving
Azalyn: i wonder when they'll get multiprocess tabs released.
Rednaxela: complains about lack of JPEG2000 support in FF
Azerthoth: oh yeah, theres a showstopper
Rednaxela: doesn't think he will be able to look forward to it in the foreseeable future :)
Kano: maybe nobody likes wavelets ;)
Azalyn: and then after that, i wonder when fennec will be complete, and it's optimizations merged back to mainline to be in the desktop version..
Azalyn: feh.. so many things to look forward to
Daekdroom: There was something good about WinXP
d2kx: Azalyn: not until 4.1
Daekdroom: You could always expect it to be very up-to-date xD
d2kx: Azalyn: drastic performance improvements and the new GUI will happen with 4.0 in november though
Kano: 3.7 still does not complete acid2
d2kx: 3.7 != 4.0's gecko's engine
Kano: err acid 3 of course
Daekdroom: It's not all about passing those tests o.o
Kano: and which build should have the new engine
Rednaxela: I'm waiting for the day when IE 6 really truly forever dies, and IE 7 too
Kano: very unlikely
Rednaxela: Then people will actually be able to USE some of the more advanced CSS that the tests bother with
Rednaxela: Until then, the tests aren't of so much meaning
Kano: in most cases those browsers are in comporate or embedded use
Azalyn: have they said when multiprocess tabs will happen?
Azalyn: will that come earlier?
Kano: firefox 3.6.4 -> 94 acid, 3.7.5pre -> 97
Kano: a bit better however
d2kx: Azalyn: 4.1
Rednaxela: Chrome 5.0.342 for linux -> 97 in acid3
Azalyn: seriously? the hell... why so late?
Azalyn: the other shit sounds way more complicated
d2kx: lots of other drastic changes coming with 4.0 though
Rednaxela: Midori with an uptodate gtk webkid -> 100 on Acid 3
SimmyD: sup dawgs
Kano: that was long ago
Kano: webkit + opera finished support for that 2 years ago
Kano: chrome should learn to use rss bookmarks
Kano: then it would be much better
Azerthoth: meh, I'll worry about what chrome learns when google learns not to data mine
Kano: google does that with firefox too
Azerthoth: so ... basicly never
Kano: does not matter
Kano: when you use the search bar
Azerthoth: Kano, if you have google set
Kano: then every key you press is transferred to google
Kano: Azerthoth: who does not?
Azerthoth: um ... me
Kano: is yahoo/bing better?
Kano: self restriction ;)
Azerthoth: kano http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixquick
d2kx: time to sleep i think... interesting day ahead
mastertheknife: LOL anyone noticed that valve blocked access to the linux binaries?
HideMe2: can anyone tell me how to select another hard drive to test in Phoronix Test Suite?
mikeplus64: News at 7.
mastertheknife: he Ivanovic_
DonScott: well that would leave Valve in a very good situation if they are going to release for linux
DonScott: they would have no major competition for a long while
mastertheknife: Direct linking to the binaries gives 404, i think they deleted all, or all outdated
mastertheknife: Blocking access to manifest raises the question, is the project about to be nuked?
Modplan: doesn't work
mastertheknife: Modplan: however, osx and win32 are still publicly available
mastertheknife: linux is now restricted to few IPs or something, but the file is there because if you try something else you get 404
mikeplus64: I can't decide if this is good or bad.
mastertheknife: Modplan: do you think the project is about to be nuked?
mastertheknife: me neither.
DonScott: maybe they got tired of you guys poking at it.
mastertheknife: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux = forbidden(but there), http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_osx = works, http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_win32 = also works
mastertheknife: DonScott: most likely :P
mastertheknife: DonScott: they feel they had enough hype :P
Modplan: mastertheknife: Doubt it. If my original idea about about it being initially a mistake, perhaps they've now reverted back to entirely internal testing after some teasing
Modplan: the actual client can still connect to update servers
mastertheknife: Modplan: You mean returned to work on it? That makes sense and i hope its true
Modplan: mastertheknife: Yah. they may have already been working on it already, and left the public one up as it was
mastertheknife: Modplan: Yeah also possible
DonScott: it's still being worked on......they just want it to be a surprise.
Modplan: DonScott that boat sailed a while ago :p
Varkk: now they won't release it until we shut up and forget about it, even if it is ready tomorrow
mastertheknife: DonScott: Can't follow on the client's development anymore, this feels weird
DonScott: Darmok and Tinagra When the walls fell.
Modplan: last downloaded the .zip files only day before yesterday. should i put em up somewhere for everyone?
mastertheknife: Modplan: Nah
mastertheknife: Modplan: re-distributing their files is not legal, and if they removed them, i guess they had enough
HideMe2: can anyone tell me how to select another hard drive to test in Phoronix Test Suite?
DonScott: could mean they saw enough interest in it after everyone poked at it and are just avoiding any really bad legal stuff by removing access to it for now.
DonScott: or it might be back by tomorrow ....who knows ?
mastertheknife: Yeah who knows :)
DonScott: i don't think they needed any help with the code....I think they needed to see if there was enough people wanting it. I'm pretty sure they got their answer.
DonScott: marketing bitches
mikeplus64: Modplan: Went to that link and got 404'd.
mikeplus64: Went again and now I'm not.
Modplan: mikeplus64: which one, the steam one?
achtung_: Bah, they never planned to release it anyway.
mikeplus64: Modplan: The http://media.tinyvid.tv/br68xuy730im.ogg one.
mikeplus64: Now it works though.
Modplan: that's odd. Just been trying gnash and it works for embedded youtube vids, but not youtube itself
mastertheknife: achtung_: who knows
Rednaxela: Hmmm.... wonder what's up indeed with Valve blocking the linux builds. Why wait till now in particular I wonder. I would have expected them to have blocked sooner if they cared about it being under wraps... So I'm guessing that either they want to keep it more under wraps before making further major steps with it... or the project got shut down
rsk: linux on steam officially unconfirmed
mastertheknife: Rednaxela: Yeah, interesting mystery
zak1111: they probably decided to crap on it, in my experience corporations don't give a shit about anything i'm interested in
mastertheknife: hopefully not
DeathCrawler: i want steam
Rednaxela: The fact that it's a 403 rather than 404 is a good sign though
zak1111: the world is getting closer though, at least they THOUGHT about ACKNOWLEDGING open source platforms lol
DonScott: the code everyone saw was to feel out the interest of the community.
zak1111: thats what i was thinking too
Rednaxela: Or could have been an accident at first, but was left up as long as it was in order to do so
zak1111: they're just playin corporate games with us
Rednaxela: Best case scenario is that their developers might just want some 'privacy' while it's being worked on
Rednaxela: Which I would consider unsurprising
DonScott: that would be normal
DonScott: although if they have switched over to full development for linux .....it would be my estimate of next year and possibly put it up to late summer early fall for beta test or release.
Rednaxela: Worst case scenario would be somewhere in upper management it was decided that it was just not to be
DonScott: closer to what mastertheknife and modplanmad have said
Rednaxela: And yeah, that estimate of timing sounds good to me
Rednaxela: Sounds like what one would expect from 'Steam Time'
Rednaxela: if they said what the Telegraph claimed
DonScott: i dunno about that
DonScott: i'm just saying the fat the don't want you peeping at the code now isn't exactly bad news
DonScott: damn c key
Rednaxela: Yeah, agreed
Rednaxela: and the fact that it's 403'ed would suggest they're still using that URL internally
Sir_Brizz: they probably went into full development mode on it :p
Azalyn: they let the client stay online for this long because they wanted hype to spread.
Azalyn: i think it lends credence to my theory that they thought this would be the best way to get linux users' attention.
Rednaxela: Probably depends on how you define "full development mode" SimmyD
Azalyn: since they know we're geeks and like to tinker with stuff. heh
Sir_Brizz: probably as in releasing major patches daily
Azalyn: but now they figure there's enough hype out there at the moment.
Sir_Brizz: and they noticed a huge bandwidth soak
Sir_Brizz: I got two "large" updates in two days
Azalyn: also, they may be making an announcement soon.
Azalyn: so they're preparing for it.
Sir_Brizz: like 35mb but if you hit it 1,000 times that is 3.5gb
zak1111: i sure hope so
Rednaxela: "huge bandwidth soak" <- Probably not really, when you consider how much bandwidth they deal with on a regular basis
jumbers: Oh wow. When did they change the permissions on that?
Rednaxela: 3.5gb is less than one free portal download, after all
Sir_Brizz: well 3.5gb of transfer is nothing to balk at if you are releasing multiple 35mb patches every day
jumbers: I do 2TB a month in image downloads. 3.5GB is nothing
Sir_Brizz: do you think it's only getting hit 1,000 times?
Sir_Brizz: I only used that number to show that a relatively small group of people can have a rather large impact
Rednaxela: I'm sure the free portal download has many more thousand downloads a day recently, and that weighs 5gb per download if I remember right
Sir_Brizz: but you have to consider that that is a one time download for the most part
Sir_Brizz: also that is a released product
Rednaxela: Yeah, but I'm sure most people who downloaded the linux binaries only did once or twice
Rednaxela: not every update
jumbers: They've deleted the old steam_linux.zip
Sir_Brizz: and the updates?
Sir_Brizz: if you run the steam client it grabs the updates
Sir_Brizz: obviously Valve could afford it if they wanted to
Sir_Brizz: but it's not exactly good for build testing and such if you have thousands of people grabbing updates everytime you make a new build
jumbers: I don't see why not
Tazer: Wait wait I missed stuff we're talking about steam for linux, are there updates? :Allears:
jumbers: They changed the permissions
Rednaxela: 403'ed now
jumbers: steam_client_linux now 403's
Tazer: That means what? I'm not exactly very techy fluent but I'm working on it ;w;
jumbers: 403 is a no permission error
Tazer: As opposed to what it was before that was, 404 I think right?
DonScott: means they don't want people peeping at the code anymore.
Tazer: Ah, fair enough
jumbers: Right, 404 means Not Found
Tazer: So just to make sure I've got it right, last time they'd deleted the entry for the client code, but now they put it back up privately?
jumbers: The skins_all and public_all.zip are there, but they removed the latest build of steam_linux.zip and bins_linux.zip
Tazer: Ah O:
Sir_Brizz: or they removed the old builds :p
jumbers: I noticed before that they would leave old builds up for a couple days
Sir_Brizz: don't forget that those two packages had most of the bugs though :)
DonScott: they're ramping up development most likely and dont want you nosey parkers poking at it until it's beta. =)
jumbers: I like poking
jumbers: There are only 1309773799142205016354462501416515682085412709631 possibilities for the filenames to be
Sir_Brizz: write a program to start going through them and log ones that are valid
Sir_Brizz: then we'll see how long it is before Valve blacklists your IP
DonScott: it'll be out on linux before he would find them anyway
Sir_Brizz: he'd have to constantly start it over too, unless they are always increasing
DonScott: either way
DonScott: i think it's a good sign they 403'd it
jumbers: Either way, it's impossible to guess
Sir_Brizz: I think it's promising
jumbers: 5000 people trying every second of the day would take 24652328224045576543476060473444567079658773465 seconds or 7.817x10^38 years
DonScott: yeah........good luck with that. lol
jumbers: Which is 5.7*10^28 universe ages
zak1111: haha dammn
jumbers: Wolfram Alpha is the best
DonScott: I think the small press leak and the public code was a feeler to see if there was enough interest before they made a final decision.
DonScott: which they found was in their favor
jumbers: That could be
jumbers: They definitely had the plan though
jumbers: It was probably just to confirm their suspicion that it would be a good move, but they were most likely doing it anyway
DonScott: valve is sneaky like that
DonScott: they are also a potential paradigm shift in the way game companies/developers think about linux.
Sir_Brizz: mark zuckerburg is an idiot
Sir_Brizz: and I can't spell
DonScott: is that the facebook guy ?
mastertheknife: Maybe its like what Azalyn said, they are getting closer to an announcement
mastertheknife: and preparing for it
Sir_Brizz: seems likely
mastertheknife: The fact that steam_linux and bins_linux from yesterday return 404 means they updated them
mastertheknife: if they updated steam_linux, its likely they made some progress
ackondro: so what, a full rebuild followed by some qa
mastertheknife: ackondro: All this time they usually only updated bins_linux, the only files being updated were steamclient.so and libtiber0_s.so
jumbers: Somebody guess the SHA1 sum :p
mastertheknife: jumbers: what i said makes some sense ?
jumbers: Most likely
jumbers: But they used to leave the old builds up for a couple days
mastertheknife: jumbers: They wanted to remove traces to the known binaries so they removed them
mastertheknife: jumbers: Now there is no way to get steam_linux and bins_linux of any version (unless you already have it)
jumbers: Or if you guess the sha1
jumbers: You have a 1 in 1381713539437721317898092239355954113400192449917 chance
mikeplus64: Lets get guessing then!
dusty_fox: So...you're saying there still is a chance? :D
Galaxy|: i have indexed every single version since April 21
Galaxy|: and found a few manifests from before then with mostly incomplete file listings
jumbers: Galaxy|: Question is how many still exist
mastertheknife: I only have the May 7th (the big update) in my computer
Galaxy|: i will compile a list of the linux files i have
dusty_fox: so are they going to nuke it, or are they going to start work on it again without us linux people watching their every move?
mastertheknife: dusty_fox: i see you read my post :P... well probably work without us watching
DonScott: they're ramping up development on it most likely
jumbers: They're keeping it secret no
mastertheknife: dusty_fox: its possible they are getting closer to announcement so they are preparing for it
DonScott: and don't want people peeping at it
dusty_fox: mastertheknife: I sure hope so!
Galaxy|: the last 5 updates have changed bins_linux
mastertheknife: dusty_fox: The fact that steam_linux and bins_linux from yesterday return 404 means they updated them
Galaxy|: every time
DeathCrawler: i want steam official annoucement
mastertheknife: dusty_fox: if they updated steam_linux, its likely they made some progress
Galaxy|: mastertheknife: what cdn are you probing?
Galaxy|: cdn.steampowered... still has a lot of the files
dusty_fox: don't tell phoronix though. they'll go crazy.
mikeplus64: This is Phoronix! ;)
Galaxy|: let me do a run through of every single manifest i have and see which files come up missing
mastertheknife: Galaxy|: I'm confused.. whats that URL and whats a CDN
Galaxy|: CDN = Content Distribution Network
Galaxy|: aka Akamai
Galaxy|: steam uses 2 separate networks
Galaxy|: cdn.steampowered and shop.steampowered
Galaxy|: cdn gets the content first and seeds it to shop
jumbers: http://cdn.steampowered.com/public/client/ doesn't even exist
Sir_Brizz: it probably does
Sir_Brizz: it's just blocked
jumbers: No, it's 404
Sir_Brizz: getting a directory listing
mastertheknife: Galaxy|: How do you know all this..? You must be working for Valve :)
Galaxy|: i just know my way around cdns
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: It would 403 if there were no directory listing
Galaxy|: Valve and Nintendo use very similar systems setup with SOAP requests
Sir_Brizz: depends on how the httpd server is set up
jumbers: The server is setup to 403 on directories
jumbers: Try any directory on the server, it will 403
Galaxy|: they can't very well list http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/client
Galaxy|: without spilling the beans :)
Galaxy|: sorry about the confusion with the url
Sir_Brizz: I can't find one on cdn that it will 403 on
jumbers: Link to this supposed page?
Galaxy|: its store.steampowered and cdn.store.steampowered
Galaxy|: cdn is where its seeded and store is where the client sends its SOAP request
Galaxy|: link working for you now jium
mastertheknife: cdn.store.steampowered.com works but the manifest for linux is 403
jumbers: Yeah, you didn't say that it was cnd.store.steampowered.com
jumbers: Yesterday's files are gone from there too though
achtung_: I think I'll assume it's dead. That way, if it is actually released, I'll be ecstatic.
jumbers: It's definitely the opposite of dead
achtung_: If not, then no loss.
Sir_Brizz: 404 would be dead
Sir_Brizz: 403 is "hmmmmmmmmm...."
jumbers: 403 is "no peeking!"
mastertheknife: its possible that its dead, although not likely
Galaxy|: the cdn load bears
mastertheknife: DeathCrawler: your nick is depressing :/
Galaxy|: they may have switched it to a different store front
DonScott: nah its not dead.....they just pulled the drapes down.
Galaxy|: both linux and win32 versions disappeared for a few minutes around 3:55 PDT
Galaxy|: then they released an update at 4:30
Galaxy|: and the linux manifest has been gone since
Galaxy|: win32 came back at 4:30
jumbers: Right, but did they 404 or 403 at that time?
Galaxy|: i dont know
Galaxy|: 403 most likely
mastertheknife: Valve at the moment wants to see how the mac client pans out before rolling a linux version
mastertheknife: I know that for someone close to valv
jumbers: Well if win32 403'd, then the Linux one may come back
mikeplus64: Sausage rolling, at that.
Rednaxela: Worst case scenario: It's 403'ed pending review for possible cancellation.
Rednaxela: Unlikely worst case scenario though I think
Galaxy|: for anyone interested
jumbers: Considering Valve confirmed it to The Telegraph, I have a feeling they won't be canceling
Galaxy|: my logs since 1am this morning
mastertheknife: They had a meeting and in the meeting it was decided to delay the linux announcement, they want to see how the mac client pans out before rolling a linux one
achtung_: I think the Telegraph nonsense is just that... nonsense.
achtung_: We're talking about journalism.
mikeplus64: The Telegraph's 'confirmation' sounds a bit dubious.
jumbers: Somebody emailed The Telegraph asking for their source, and the Telegraph said Valve sent it to them
mastertheknife: The linux client was just a proof of concept
mastertheknife: I can't tell the source for this information, but its always good to know
casey_: i thought telegraph's source was phoronix
achtung_: Then I have to assume it is false.
Galaxy|: hopefully my info is beneficial to people
achtung_: No offense or anything, but I can't trust word of mouth.
Galaxy|: i made a script the moment i knew they were using akamai
jumbers: Somebody emailed Telegraph directly and they said their source was Valve
Sir_Brizz: I don't think anybody knows what the Linux client is right now
Sir_Brizz: one of Valve's contractors said it could be a proof of concept
mastertheknife: achtung_: someone really close to valve..
Rednaxela: mastertheknife: You mean you've heard from someone close to valve eh?
mastertheknife: that meeting was on May 10th
Sir_Brizz: was it rbarris? :p
jumbers: I'll email Telegraph myself and ask for their source
Happiness_: mah, this is sad, i want a confirmation soo
DonScott: don't worry Death....there will be.
Rednaxela: I wouldn't be so sure
achtung_: This place is a roaring pit of speculation and conspiracy. Where's an image of the steam logo with "I want to believe" around it?
mikeplus64: Hopehopehopehopehypehypehypehopehypehype. :)
mikeplus64: The topic title has the confirmation in it: www.steamonlinux.com
Sir_Brizz: rbarris said he didn't know if there was a linux client in the works, but he did say that they would probably do a proof of concept first
achtung_: OMG THERE ARE PENGUINS ON THE DESK IN THE MAC RELEASE PHOTO!
achtung_: Shit be confirmed.
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: when did he say that?
DonScott: change ..... it is inevitable.
xorl: achtung_: they did similar type stuff for mac
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: a few days ago
xorl: they threw hints in their content
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: really.. where?
dusty_fox: "Shit be confirmed" should be added to steamonlinux.com :p
xorl: like portal
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: someone emailed him
achtung_: I'm sure it is a hint.
Galaxy|: probing the CDN for all my known versions
xorl: you guys did decode the messages in portal stating it was coming to mac right?
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: well if thats what he said, its probably a hint
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: the problem with rbarris is that he is an outside contractor and his job is porting the engine to OpenGL
Sir_Brizz: so who knows how much he knows
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: he's still involved with valve
achtung_: Something to get us normally calm Linux nerds up in a tissy.
Sir_Brizz: yes but not like a regular employee would be
riisen: well i think they really can't ditch the linux client now.. and since they have made the mac client.. it can't be that far left
mastertheknife: They can't ditch the linux client because too many people know about it now and expect it
Sir_Brizz: and everyone actually at Valve has remained silent to all the emails
achtung_: Isn't the source engine being ported to linux already?
Sir_Brizz: which means they are either already sure what they are doing
Sir_Brizz: or they haven't quite decided yet
mastertheknife: Even if they nuke the client, in 5 years we will be able to prove its existence, there are screenshots, videos, etc
achtung_: For Postal or something?
Galaxy|: in about 5 mins ill have a rough picture of what is still on the cdn and what isn't
Galaxy|: quite a few things are popping up as not found though :\
Rednaxela: Sir_Brizz, Way to cover all the bases. You basically said "They're sure, or they're not sure"
riisen: mastertheknife, yea too many expect it... why would they wanna say no to customers :s
jumbers: Galaxy|: Just be careful with the rate that you're requesting
Sir_Brizz: I am guessing that they have already decided what they are doing and that the contents of the shell scripts for everything on the OSX client hints at what they are planning
Galaxy|: jumbers: no need
Galaxy|: i am querying akamai
Galaxy|: not valve
Sir_Brizz: Rednaxela: the silence can only means that they are sure of one thing: that it is not canned
Sir_Brizz: if they weren't doing it, they would say they are not doing it
mastertheknife: they are either confused, or doing it slowly
Rednaxela: Could be both confused and doing it slowly
mastertheknife: confused as not sure if to do it or not
achtung_: Don't they officially deny a linux client as of now?
mastertheknife: achtung_: They didn't officially deny
mikeplus64: The officially say nothing so far.
achtung_: If they are contacted.
Sir_Brizz: they haven't said anything since we found the link
achtung_: Has anyone even e-mailed them?
mastertheknife: achtung_: So many people emailed, no response..
jumbers: If they're contacted, of course they'll deny it
jumbers: They're never gonna confirm that to random people via email
jumbers: Not until an announcement
mikeplus64: Someone should try call Valve.
SimmyD: omfg just caught up with all this writing
SimmyD: god you guys dribble on :P
achtung_: Well I'll just have to call Obama then. Make this shit serious.
jumbers: mikeplus64: You do that
Sir_Brizz: you can ask him to pay off your house while you're at it
mikeplus64: Yep, don't let Obama be left out on this.
Sir_Brizz: if you get him on a good day, he might just do that
jumbers: You'd be better off driving a twinkie truck to Valve
jumbers: Special Delivery for Gabe
achtung_: I'll threaten him with revealing damning evidence on his nationality, and force him to contact Valve.
DonScott: he might be a lil busy bitching at BP and the oil industry at the moment
achtung_: It'll work. I know it will!
jumbers: "I'll reveal to the whole world that you're... AMERICAN"
mastertheknife: You should drive to Valve's offices and drop a few pengiuns there to walk inside their offices
mastertheknife: It will make the message clear enough
achtung_: No no no, SUICIDE penguins.
achtung_: Make it clear we mean FUCKING BUSINESS>
achtung_: Shape C4 like an egg, send them in the door.
achtung_: Sweat that Linux client out of them.
mikeplus64: We still have an elite army of drooling Phoronix readers at our disposal.
achtung_: Maybe there could be a follow-up attack with children dressed as devils with pitchforks.
achtung_: BSD needs love too, right?
Galaxy|: mastertheknife: seems so
dusty_fox: we don't get a linux client from anyone that's been blown to bits though. suicide penguins are fine. The penguins will walk in the door and promptly kill themselves. that'll get their attention
mastertheknife: Galaxy|: what seems so ?
Galaxy|: thus far every single bins_linux and steam_linux zip file are now gone
Sir_Brizz: here is the way to get gabe to talk
Galaxy|: almost done with the manifest list I have available
Sir_Brizz: offer him $20 to confirm the linux client
dusty_fox: or a twinkie
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: I think you mean $50,000 at least
mastertheknife: or a cookie
SimmyD: so the pulled all the linux stuff off? or just hid it
mikeplus64: $50,000 or a cookie... Difficult decision.
dusty_fox: hey man, cookies are serious business
Sir_Brizz: $20 and a cookie
jumbers: I'm gonna send Gabe this: http://pb.jnumbers.com/6
mastertheknife: SimmyD: Its possible that they deleted all files to remove traces (known links) to existing files
dusty_fox: jumbers: did you do that or get it somewhere?
Sir_Brizz: do it
xorl: wish gcfscape worked on mac
jumbers: I found it and added the chat bubble
SimmyD: mby that was poc
jumbers: I'll give it an innocent email title like: Comment about Steam
SimmyD: and now they approved it and its going full steam forward (pun intended)
mastertheknife: jumbers: LOL do that
Sir_Brizz: wait don't do it your email will convince them to cancel it and never work on it again
jumbers: It should give Gabe a good laugh
Sir_Brizz: I'm being facetious
mastertheknife: yeah he will laugh
jumbers: Unless he thinks I am trying to equate him to a penguin... :(
jumbers: Hmm, he looks better in small font
mikeplus64: Put 'Linux' on the penguin's belly or something so he doesn't think that he's being equated to a penguin.
Rednaxela: Tsss, fonts in email are evil, plain text~
jumbers: Oh, it seems to be truncating some spaces out
DonScott: lol Gabe's not stupid , he'll know what it means.