Sir_Brizz: http://cl.ly/15Yu
Sir_Brizz: now that is quite interesting
jelso: hmmm...
jelso: it is quite interesting
jelso: I think steam on linux is likely
asciiwolf: hello
zak1111: is away: be right back gettin some food
zak1111: is back (gone 00:03:29)
chris_gamebox: mastertheknife: awake already ?
jumbers: Can somebody hit http://status.jnumbers.com for me so I can make sure my ports are forwarding correct?
chris_gamebox: jumbers: if you don't psh me an rootkit ;-)
jumbers: lol
chris_gamebox: just did
chris_gamebox: bithing happens
chris_gamebox: wating....
jumbers: Whoops, try again
chris_gamebox: jnumpoers is currently up :-)
chris_gamebox: so, seems to work
jumbers: Thanks, I've moved my network to a different subnet so I had to go through all of my router settings to reflect the new subnet
chris_gamebox: no prob
chris_gamebox: why the heck is michaellarabel so damn silent atm about steam
jumbers: Either he has an early press release or I dunno
chris_gamebox: maybe he really has to wait for seomthing/someday etc..
chris_gamebox: and then will push photos of a running steam client on Linux :-)
birdturd: so much win for linux
mamalujo: um, who is michaellarabel?
chris_gamebox: mamalujo: michaellarabel == phoronix
mamalujo: oh, I c
asciiwolf: guys, is there a working vgui2 patch for that new steam?
asciiwolf: old vgui2 patch doesn't work for me anymore :/
asciiwolf: it crashes on sigsegv after login :/
chris_gamebox: no idea, really
chris_gamebox: mastertheknife should know
giselher: hy,
somename: hi
giselher: uh, updates!
giselher: did something change?
somename: something must be changed
giselher: only steamclient.so
somename: bins_linux and public_all seems to got updated
somename: see checksums
giselher: oh, yupe, I'd like to see a running steam without patches
somename: lets see if it runs now
r4: i doubt it does!
r4: steam linux probably wont work until steam actually releases it
r4: no matter how much its hacked :)
somename: maybe they are just changing some bits and publishing it as a new version :p
somename: seg fault
r4: possibly
r4: who knows
r4: im just goign to wait patiently at this point
somename: still same errors
giselher: OUT OF MEMORY
somename: yeah... with that vgui patch it outputs out of memory
The_Muh: hacked into little pieces of sh...
somename: developers developers developers developers
Galaxy|: niet
mastertheknife: chris_gamebox: i'm here
mastertheknife: errr.. wrong person
mastertheknife: lol
somename: ↑
mastertheknife: wow people at steam forums are sick
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1269831
somename: lmao
Morten_: haha wtf
mastertheknife: :/
mastertheknife: Hey..
mastertheknife: I just realized something
mastertheknife: Valve will announce the linux client BEFORE the may 24th.
mastertheknife: It makes some sense. If they announce it before the 24th, the announcement will include that Portal is free until 24th may, and people will go creating steam accounts to get Portal to be able to play it later
giselher: yeah till 24th is a long time to annouce a second client
Ivanovic: *or* they announce on 25th
giselher: hah, I already registered portal
giselher: on my account
The_Muh: they should announce now - to kill all romours
mastertheknife: Valve likes to take its time
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: I can't believe people that say its all speculation and the client isn't real and that its wine
mastertheknife: there is so much evidence by now
mastertheknife: and valve would have denied a linux client if it wasn't coming
mastertheknife: how stupid can some people be
mastertheknife: lol.
mastertheknife: its coming, its just a question of when
somename: did they already port portal to linux?
mastertheknife: no
mastertheknife: well i dont know but dont think so
giselher: there is a shell script evidenc for linux
giselher: http://cl.ly/16n3
mastertheknife: thats steam.sh now?
mastertheknife: no*?
The_Muh: mastertheknife: thas hl2.sh
The_Muh: oh... damn
The_Muh: my bad
somename: the title says steam.sh
mastertheknife: lol.
giselher: http://cl.ly/15Yu thats the right one
mastertheknife: interesting
giselher: very interesting
mastertheknife: but i think that code was just copied from steam.sh
mastertheknife: i dont see any reference to check if to launch hl2_osx or hl2_linux
giselher: that would be in the if loop if they had an hl_linux bnary
giselher: binary*
giselher: they could just delete the lines to only 5 for the os x client
The_Muh: giselher: if-loops does not exist
The_Muh: its an if-statement, not a loop
giselher: whatever
The_Muh: if foo = bar then print "moo" end if <- executet one time only
mastertheknife: Is ubuntu going downhill?
mastertheknife: btrfs as default fs in ubuntu 10.10 ?
The_Muh: ubuntu goes experimental
The_Muh: upstart, btrfs, globa menu...
The_Muh: *global
somename: ubuntu 9.10 -> vista, ubuntu 10.04 -> mac os x ,ubuntu 10.10 -> ?
mastertheknife: Whats wrong with ext4?
The_Muh: <3 arch
somename: <3 arch ,too
mastertheknife: Its more tested and probably also more stable than btrfs
mastertheknife: <3 gentoo
somename: pacman -R brain
The_Muh: freedom of choice (i can use every fs i want)
giselher: <3 arch
rsk: mastertheknife it's slower
somename: whats the point of btrfs?
mastertheknife: rsk: I know that btrfs has some very cool features, but its still not tested enough
babai: <3 arch , three
somename: everyone is using arch except master :p
The_Muh: a german news-page called btrfs as "next-gen-filesystem"
scheka: <3 arch, four
giselher: arch with [gnome-unstable] and [arch-games] enabled
babai: arch with the best wm:openbox
mastertheknife: I am a gentoo fan i guess.. 64bit gentoo
giselher: The_Muh heise.de/open ?
The_Muh: giselher: yup
somename: i got: fluxbox, gnome and openbox
giselher: well, the troll site number 1
The_Muh: giselher: golem.de
The_Muh: even more trollz there
babai: tried kde on arch but kwins composting is really bad
babai: *compositing
giselher: The_Muh: thats impossible, there cannot be more trolls than heise
somename: ubuntu is getting worse every release
somename: +with
mastertheknife: Although some changes of ubuntu seem interesting
mastertheknife: such as rootless X
The_Muh: giselher: the golem-trolls trolls also against golem.de
babai: i cannot install lucid its saying cannot create partition : device or resource busy
babai: didnt happen with jaunty
somename: the only good thing was that they dropped hal and used devicekit
somename: who needs softwarecenter? who needs a mac-rip-off?
babai: waiting for fedora goddard
outer: i use archlinux with kde and openbox instead kwin
babai: outer: hmm, will try that
outer: you can change the window manager in ksystemsettings
babai: outer: I use fusion icon for that
outer: ok
The_Muh: anyone have the link to the steam-forum-post about the hints in the picture?
babai: I want to benchmark nexuiz through phoronix-test-suite ,but I dont want it to download it I already have it in my /home, so how to do that?
giselher: The_Muh: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14951954&posted=1#post14951954
mastertheknife: Anyone here with 8GB ram ?
somename: who needs 8 gb RAM?
The_Muh: people who have a little pe...
The_Muh: =)
mastertheknife: I want to double my RAM from 2GB to 4GB, i'm not sure what to do, to buy another 2GB of same type, or 2GB of different type, or just buy all new 4GB of ddr3 (mobo supports both ddr2 and ddr3)
babai: I have 1GB :P
somename: mastertheknife: are pointers to functions in C possible?
somename: in struct
mastertheknife: 2GB was fine in this 64bit gentoo when i was running KDE 3.5, KDE4 takes a lot of memory, using over 1GB of ram with just irssi, opera, amarok, pidgin running
babai: if possible buy 2GB of same type from same manufacturer
mastertheknife: somename: I believe so
somename: how?
mastertheknife: somename: No reason it shouldn't be
somename: nvm... i'll google
mastertheknife: somename: int (pf*)(int,char); will create a pointer to a function that returns int and takes int and char, the pointer will be called pf
The_Muh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb7c8Sbvzb8 < lol
chris_gamebox: the cto of transgaming alsom replied to te is it really opengl thread..
somename: field »func« declared as a function
somename: w8
chris_gamebox: something new in the new uodate of steam ?
The_Muh: someone have a script for loading and patching steam?
mikeplus64: Well, although I'm waiting for Valve to actually publicly announce the releasing of Steam for Linux, I must say...
mikeplus64: HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE! :d
mikeplus64: :D
scheka: The_Muh: http://pastebin.com/fJyv22Cs
scheka: will load steam, but dont patch it ^^
chris_gamebox: i want steam niw
chris_gamebox: +games !
mikeplus64: But I must say, although Michael says that he has his sources, I'm kind of partial to how 'official' it is. Still hypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehype though. ;)
Kano: hi mastertheknife
mastertheknife: hi Kano
chris_gamebox: michael is damn silent about this topic nowadays
giselher: maybe He is ashamed that valve didn't announce it yet
mastertheknife: heh
mastertheknife: somename: found a solution ?
somename: google ftw
mastertheknife: somename: I think i typed it wrong, it should have been (*pf) and not (pf*)
chris_gamebox: giselher: possible
chris_gamebox: giselher: if it does not happen, nobody will believe him anymore
giselher: .)
somename: seg fault...yay
mastertheknife: somename: is the calling convention in use the same in the pointer definition and the function's definition ?
somename: never mind. worked
mastertheknife: this can be the case if you are calling windows functions such as wine ones
mastertheknife: ok
somename: shall i free that pointer after calling it?
The_Muh: how i get steam "running"?
mikeplus64: I really hope Valve does say something about this, even something to acknowledge that it exists at all ( I mean, other than of course the files on their servers ).
mastertheknife: somename: free it? you mean set to NULL? if you want.. but if the function is loaded from a .so file with dlopen() and the address is from dlsym(), you should set the pointer to NULL after freeing the .so with dlclose()
somename: yeah
mastertheknife: by setting it to NULL you will ensure that you aren't calling an invalid function.. and the program should check for the pointer being NULL before calling the function as a check if the module is loaded
mastertheknife: or something
mastertheknife: you get the idea :P
somename: http://pastebin.com/wqgixg8P
somename: is this okay?
somename: it gives no errors but freeing func is weird :p
mastertheknife: you don't need to call free()
mastertheknife: free() is for allocated memory with malloc()
somename: ah...
mastertheknife: you can just do
somename: so it is okay as it is now?
mastertheknife: test.func = NULL;
mastertheknife: yeah that code is ok except the free() call, lol
The_Muh: and if you don't free the allocated mem, the kernel will do this for you
somename: its outcommented :p
mastertheknife: The_Muh: but he didn't allocate any memory
The_Muh: mastertheknife: i know
The_Muh: *and if you allocate then
somename: works... thanks again mastertheknife ^^
The_Muh: is this mvc? http://themuh.ath.cx/client.png
The_Muh: (model, view, controller)
mamalujo: so, can I mount 3 iso images into the same dir?
mamalujo: I mean, and get a union of what's on them, not only the last one, but having to umount 3 times
mastertheknife: somename: An example of memory allocation in your program: http://pastebin.com/aJzHyrWg
somename: i see... free is only used when i used malloc before?
somename: *is
mastertheknife: Yeah
mastertheknife: Its used on the base pointer returned by malloc
somename: ah..
mastertheknife: wow
mastertheknife: my code has an error
mastertheknife: i didn't even notice that i forgot to change the way you access the members of the struct
mastertheknife: somename: this is the correct one, my bad: http://pastebin.com/UM6t5hfP
somename: whats the difference?
somename: except "->"
mastertheknife: just the ->
mastertheknife: -> is equal to *(test).lol
somename: :O
mastertheknife: while(1) break;
mastertheknife: :P
somename: ^^
christian_lappy: wants to play l4d2 natively NOW :-)
somename: i want a time machine now
christian_lappy: to drive in the future to be able to play l4d2 natively i gues ;-)
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: is the updated stam ui working again ?
Kano: http://pastie.org/private/dwailx3hojqmi6dhcnr2w
Kano: if somebody likes to try
Kano: best have compiz active
Kano: you can use -login user pw
Kano: as option directly
The_Muh: Kano: why compiz?
Kano: because you can not use the mouse otherwise
giselher: without compiz the Xserver freezes, for me
Kano: well only for steam
christian_lappy: giselher: ouch
The_Muh: oO
The_Muh: someone tried that with tiling?
Kano: try it
The_Muh: its loading
christian_lappy: steam ?
mikeplus64: Water vapour.
The_Muh: water
Kano: christian_lappy: you can login,but you do not see text yet
christian_lappy: Kano: so, no progress
The_Muh: seg fault
Kano: no, but the script automatically will handle all patches + needed overrides
Kano: The_Muh: nvidia or fglrx binary
The_Muh: my driver? nouveau
Kano: will not work
The_Muh: damn
The_Muh: -.-'
giselher: works here with vgui patch
Kano: giselher: try the script, it should do everything automaticially, if not then the parsed files are not uptodate
somename: i get seg fault with that vgui patch
The_Muh: Speicherzugriffsfehler LD_PRELOAD=`echo linux32/*.so` ${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE} $@
The_Muh: sry for that german word (means segfault)
Kano: giselher: you see the series files in patch or override dir
Kano: very simple
The_Muh: if i run steam.sh i get only this: [ 0%] !!! Fatal Error: Failed to load steamui.so
wait4steam: i got the error too but steam launches anyway
somename: yeah.. the modules need to be preloaded
giselher: Kano: I will test your scritp
The_Muh: hm
The_Muh: kay... damn nouveau
christian_lappy: read somethingninteresting in the steam forums
Kano: The_Muh: too old card?
somename: no niveau ^^
NigeyUK: moooo
The_Muh: Kano: no.
Kano: why not use nv binary?
The_Muh: just nouveau...
Kano: faster anyway
christian_lappy: some guys fiddled around with steam on windows to get mac style look
The_Muh: Kano: kms =)
christian_lappy: and they got -> steam with no text
mikeplus64: christian_lappy: Oh the humanity! xD
Kano: The_Muh: for the 20s you boot? not that i laugh
wait4steam: ^^
christian_lappy: has anyone here tried with helvetica as steam fknt ?
giselher: Hy Confirmed :)
Confirmed: yes
The_Muh: hmm
Confirmed: hey ho
Confirmed: and its not a font issue btw
giselher: WINE is a green winged unicorn CONFIRMED
The_Muh: i tested nouveau, it works (not 3d) and i was to lazy to re-install the propritary driver
Confirmed: fonts are rendered as openl textures, which isnt implemented yet hence no font
Confirmed: opengl*
christian_lappy: ah
The_Muh: hmm
christian_lappy: so we simply will have to wait
Confirmed: thats why any updates without a new binary are pretty pointless trying
Confirmed: unfortunately yup, just the good ol valve waiting game
The_Muh: dissassemble it, fix it, compile it, give it to us
Confirmed: hehe offsets are all different, reverse engineering it wouldnt be possible now
mastertheknife: Thats why we have an etherpad with a list of fixes
mastertheknife: just need to tell them what to change in what function
Confirmed: hey master!
mastertheknife: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/export/0UmBOBf27q/latest?format=html
mastertheknife: oh nigey
mastertheknife: :)
NigeyUK: lol boo
mastertheknife: Kano i will test your scritp right away
NigeyUK: beats kano with the confirmed stick
mastertheknife: Kano is so good with bash
mastertheknife: its unbelieveable
Kano: mastertheknife: i think your site reports wrong type
Kano: it always wants to dl
mastertheknife: what do you mean
NigeyUK: i had that yesterday
Kano: the open*
NigeyUK: format?html makes it wanna download
mastertheknife: you mean trying to update ?
mastertheknife: oh
mastertheknife: that
mastertheknife: its normal
giselher: replace export with view
mastertheknife: Yeah but i hate the colors
Kano: disable css in browser
mastertheknife: Kano: it seems to work but i don't see where it patched vgui2 and the other files
Kano: you dont see the while ... bspatch .. done?
mastertheknife: I guess its patched though
Kano: sure
mastertheknife: i dont see multiple directories or fail loading .res
giselher: not found radUnselStd.tga
Kano: the script first only dl the linux client, it is executed to fetch the rest
giselher: but ln -s RadUnselStd.tga works
Kano: giselher: that would be no problem, i could parse a symlinks file too
NigeyUK: ya was jus gonna say symlink it
mastertheknife: wishes he know bash, sed awk etc like Kano
Kano: giselher: simple way would be a file with
Kano: ln -fs like options from main dir
NigeyUK: sed is a BITCH!
Kano: just without ln -fs
mastertheknife: I wonder if logging in still works
mastertheknife: Yeah it does
giselher: steam works for me except fonts, and the other windows
mastertheknife: but i dont see any windows, they are minimized
Kano: mastertheknife: you still did not install compiz?
giselher: main window works, friendsui not
mastertheknife: nah i didnt
mastertheknife: wow.. now i get segfault
Kano: too hard for gentoo ;)
NigeyUK: lol
mastertheknife: nah just no real use
mastertheknife: heh
mastertheknife: segfault
Kano: it is not huge
mastertheknife: hey does run.sh preload all files ?
Kano: yes
babai: anybody seen this? http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html
Kano: + delete one file
DonScott: yeah
rsk: lol babai
giselher: babai: :)
rsk: you're like the guy coming to the firefox channel asking if we ever used tabs
DonScott: lol
somename: nice... the steam main window works
giselher: but only the main windows
giselher: window*
babai: ya, u guys do surf the net a lot
somename: yeah... still no text
babai: and find these things
Nevtus: sup guys, any new news on Steam since in the past 12 hours?
NigeyUK: no just an update to steamclient.so again nothing major
somename: when will they implement webkit?
somename: for browsing
Kano: that would be logical
DonScott: i thought they already did implement webkit
Kano: not yet for linux
somename: yeah
DonScott: oh ok
The_Muh: http://pastebin.com/iv6hyZCD
giselher: The_Muh: #
giselher: Errors in public/steamlogindialog.res:
giselher: #
giselher: error loading file 'public/steamlogindialog.res',
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
mastertheknife: lol.
giselher: did you apply the vgui patch
mastertheknife: giselher: you didn't apply the vgui patch
mastertheknife: oh its The_Muh
giselher: mastertheknife: I saw that already
The_Muh: i executet that script from kano
mastertheknife: Kano ?
cmdrk: why did apple have to be such jerks with their old hardware? i have no idea where to scrounge up a DB15 (two-row) to DB15 (three throw) adapter and I have no clue where to get ADB input devices
Kano: yes?
cmdrk: save for buying them on ebay. blah.
mastertheknife: The_Muh has a problem with your script
mastertheknife: lol that video is hilarious
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
giselher: "Hack-Around" using firefox lmao
giselher: If he knew what we're doing
Kano: mastertheknife: i dont think the script has a problem
Kano: he does not use nvidia binary
DonScott: justin is a dumber than me....
The_Muh: Kano: err... i reinstalled the nvidia-driver (and use it now)
cmdrk: mastertheknife: this is hard to sit through
DonScott: mac is like a pc on easy mode for god's sake
Kano: The_Muh: compiz is running?
Kano: did you try: ./run.sh -login user pw
The_Muh: Kano: no - hate it...
Kano: you need compiz
Ivanovic: DonScott: uhm, no
Ivanovic: DonScott: you got the lovely posix tools around, too
The_Muh: compiz + i3 should be... strange
The_Muh: *would be
Kano: steam does not work without correctly
The_Muh: it failed to load a .res-file
giselher: use a symlink and try it again
mastertheknife: giselher: you saw that video? I can't stop laughing, lol
giselher: yes, but I can unterstand him, I didn't find the download for steam too
mastertheknife: giselher: same
giselher: It was easier using the linux client than finding the windows download :)
DonScott: ill give him that it's not so straight forward on finding the lient download but the rest of that was retarded.
DonScott: *client
The_Muh: i can get the login-window... after "SteamLogin() success" it crashes
Kano: The_Muh: did you use -login user pw
Kano: option?
The_Muh: jepp
The_Muh: the login-window appears, disappears, crash
Kano: The_Muh: right you need one extra patch or symlink.
The_Muh: hm
wait4steam: best new macbook is worse than my new notebook and coasts about 1000 $ more
The_Muh: i used your script
Kano: the script itself is not wrong
Kano: it only parses 2 files
Kano: one to get overrides and one for patches
Kano: all you need are correct input files
Kano: its generic
Kano: no hardcoded patches
Nevtus: that video is so stupid
Kano: if you change the dl location then you can update the files too
The_Muh: hm
wait4steam: http://www.gamestar.de/_misc/polls/poll.cfm?pk=11202
DonScott: good pie
wait4steam: 6.4 % says they'll switch to linux if steam is released for linux and 12.6 sayss
wait4steam: they already own windows AND linux
DonScott: yeah
wait4steam: thats more than you could expect
wait4steam: on a gaming magazin homepage
Nevtus: is this a mainstream one?
wait4steam: yes
Nevtus: interesting
wait4steam: largest german pc gaming magazin
somename: nice
rsk: 410 votes
rsk: :D
wait4steam: pool is new
DonScott: yeah....I seriously think linux has had more than 1% of the desktop market for at least a couple of years.
somename: it has
wait4steam: and hard to find :D
Nevtus: DonScott: especially with Ubuntu, it's done a good job getting new people in
somename: its hard to know because windows is preinstalled and many people delete it and install linux but it counts as windows
somename: *winblows
somename: my bad
DonScott: yeah ...I gotta say Ubuntu is what got me back into linux
Nevtus: if you buy a non-apple computer it counts as a Windows buy
Nevtus: usually
wait4steam: and they say there will be steam for linux too http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/news/2314910/steam_fuer_mac.html
rsk: wait4steam what source is they citing?
Nevtus: DonScott: I originally tried Linux through Ubuntu a few years ago, without I may have never tried it. I don't use it now but I've got a lot to thank for that distro
The_Muh: buyed his PC with freedos =)
somename: *bought
wait4steam: oh, it's Telegraph.co.uk ^^
rsk: wait4steam but on telegraph they don't have anything about steam4linux
Nevtus: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7715209/Steam-for-Mac-goes-live.html
Nevtus: last paragraph
wait4steam: it's the same source than phoronix :/
Nevtus: where does it source phoronix:?
rsk: eh
rsk: it says there
somename: next coming months, hmm
giselher: I bet VALVe will announce a linux client today
rsk: but valve hasn't announced it
Nevtus: rsk: on the telegraph?
rsk: yep
somename: giselher: why today?
wait4steam: they use the same source. gamestar and phoronix both use telegraph.co.uk
Ivanovic: giselher: today in "valve time"?
Ivanovic: ^^
rsk: oh
wait4steam: could someone mail telegraph to ask for their source?
rsk: phoronix takes rumours from thelegraph?
rsk: and blows them up?
rsk: :D
Nevtus: wait4steam: someone done it and they confirmed it was Valve
Ivanovic: wait4steam: they already said that their source is information right from valve!
wait4steam: really?
DonScott: i dunno that they will announce it today but if mastertheknife is right it should be anytime this summer.
wait4steam: nice!
rsk: i said something therefor it's true
rsk: no source needed.
Nevtus: wait4steam: apparently, if the paste bins can be believed
somename: i think they will announce it next week or something
wait4steam: maybe they read it on phoronix and post it and than phoronix took that as a confirmation ^^
Nevtus: I think they'll announce it once all the mac bugs are fixed
wait4steam: thats how great news work ^^
somename: they could directly drop mac support...
Nevtus: wait4steam: the telegraph wouldn't want to get sued posting false information, I'd say that would be unlikely
DonScott: i think they'll announce it sometime after the 24th still.....
Nevtus: well, for something as trival as gaming, why would they bother? :P
Ivanovic: Nevtus: uhm, simple
DonScott: just so it doesn't steal too much of the macss thunder
Ivanovic: Nevtus: game industrie is bigger than the movie industrie!
Ivanovic: (yes, games make more money than movies these days!)
Nevtus: Ivanovic: doesn't the mac story already get people in? In fact pretty much the whole article was about it
Nevtus: the Linux thing was almost an afterthough
Nevtus: *t
Ivanovic: yes, it is a tiny but rather important addition
The_Muh: if valve announce the linux-client - it would be the biggest linux-gaming-news since the release of nexuiz
DonScott: I think Valve said...."Since we're already going to do a mac port....maybe we should send a feeler out to linux too and see if they are interested too."
wait4steam: omg, there is nexuiz for linux?
Nevtus: I'd say the Humble Bundle was pretty big linux game news
wait4steam: jk ^^
Ivanovic: The_Muh: uhm, who cares about the release of nexuiz?
The_Muh: wait4steam: nexuiz, warsow, sauerbraten...
Ivanovic: IMO the humble bundle is by far more important
wait4steam: just kidding ^^
wait4steam: i know there is nexuiz
Nevtus: especially with the open sourcing!
The_Muh: Ivanovic: hmm... you're right
The_Muh: 2010 is a awesome year for linux
The_Muh: *an
The_Muh: brb
wait4steam: best linux games so far are world of goo and thedarkmod.com
cmdrk: year of the linux desktop?!
somename: the year of the linux desktop will be 2011
Ivanovic: wait4steam: wrong
Ivanovic: the best linux game so far is battle for wesnoth!
cmdrk|afk: the best linux game is bzflag. no exceptions
Nevtus: the game developers need to drop DirectX first
somename: the best linux game is /bin/bash
somename: its able to install and play any game^^
Nevtus: the best linux game is IRC
DonScott: lol
wait4steam: the best linux game is delete radom files and try to recover your system ^^
cmdrk|afk: wanders off to scrounge up goofy proprietary apple adapters
Nevtus: cmdrk|afk: you mean those VGA adapter things?
Ivanovic: the best game is this one: su -c "rm -rf /*"
Ivanovic: ;)
wait4steam: the windows version is not as good because you have to reinstall in 99% of the cases ^^
somename: rm -rf /* is only possible through bash :p
wait4steam: works with other shells too
wait4steam: ^^
somename: damn... forgot zsh
wait4steam: or dash
somename: or bsh
Ivanovic: somename: it is possible with basically all shells
Ivanovic: as long as you got the tool "rm"
somename: read mail really fast? ;)
Ivanovic: no matter if csh, zsh, bash, tcsh, ...
wait4steam: afk
DonScott: hey any of you know how to install xp after ubuntu is installed ? there is a guy named veepee in there asking about it.
christian_lappy: install it ?
somename: can windows access ext3/4 files?
christian_lappy: ext3 with adriver
somename: then it should work by editing the grub config, doesnt it?
somename: no idea... never tried
DonScott: he says xp can't install because it wants format the first partition that he has ubuntu on
christian_lappy: unlikely
somename: xp's installation thing is shitty
DonScott: that's what i told him
christian_lappy: he hopefully has space on the hdd left ?
kloplop321: any PR from Steam yet actually mentioning linux?
christian_lappy: nope
DonScott: he's got 2 partitions id0 for ubuntu and he wants to put XP on id1
kloplop321: Well, at least they are continually updating the online binaries..
DonScott: i told him to back everything up but he thinks that's too much work..... so i dunno
DonScott: i gotta poop now....brb
Azalyn: god damnit, valve.
Azalyn: stop teasing us.
Azalyn: valve is a cocktease. :(
somename: yeah
somename: i bet they already got the working binarys
Azalyn: they're probably having lan parties in-house on linux as we speak.
Azalyn: >:O
somename: lmao
somename: that would explain why they change not much on the public binarys
somename: nice... downloaded penumbra overtunes source code
somename: i saw a vid of their physics engine... it rocks
Azalyn: they already released it?
somename: yeah, yesterday
Azalyn: what license?
somename: GPL v3 or something
somename: from README: "All code is under the GPL Version 3 license. Read the COPYING file for terms of use of the license."
Azalyn: hm. not bad.
rsk: well
rsk: did they just give the engine
rsk: or did they put the art on there
somename: the "art" is still copyrighted though
somename: but at least we got the engine
Azalyn: well... i think it's obvious that they wouldn't release the art.
Azalyn: come on.
Azalyn: even richard stallman has said i believe that it's ok for companies to keep the art private.
Azalyn: the concern in free software is always about the software.
Asy: hi
somename: hi
Azalyn: hi
rsk: hi
NigeyUK: lo
somename: xD
DonScott: hey
Azalyn: damn brits, always ruining EVERYTHING.
NigeyUK: lol :p
Azalyn: i'm keeping my eye on you
NigeyUK: hides :(
somename: what is hpl.h?
somename: for what?
The_Muh: hp1 == the engine of penumbra
mjr: it's not "obvious"
mjr: but it is not unexpected
somename: cant
somename: it says: "#include "
somename: not "hpl.h"
somename: <> = in your include folder
somename: "" = in the current folder
somename: this is weird...
mjr: it's not very weird for some random code someone cooked up :]
somename: its still weird though^^
DonScott: even thought it's old now i'm gonna miss the space shuttle launches.
meGenius: did anyone try the displayport??
meGenius: is it "REALLY" better than the HDMI or it's just ads??
mjr: it does some things hdmi doesn't, hdmi does some things though that dp doesn't. You probably won't notice the difference if you're just wanting to put your usual consumer-level image on a display.
mjr: dp _does_ seem more sane in design, and _is_ more open
Azalyn: displayport is definitely better.
Azalyn: there is no way around it, you will have to upgrade at some point.
Azalyn: as mjr said, displayport is open. it's royalty-free, also, the DRM component is "optional", so no one has to really implement drm for it.
Azalyn: in practice you can expect most people to implement hdcp at minimum though, for compatibility with hdmi.
Azalyn: displayport supports *far* higher resolutions than HDMI does.
Azalyn: displayport was exactly designed to address DVI's resolution limitations. so think about this for a second, displayport was made because dvi is inadequate for future needs, and yet what is HDMI based on? DVI. heh
Azalyn: you can see right there, that hdmi is unsuitable, it's based on older technology.
mjr: well, hdmi does extend dvi also, though in a straightforward manner which carries with it dvi's legacy burden too
Azalyn: but it gets worse, the hdmi we all know, which is used on TV's and LCD's, is single-link only.
Azalyn: so the resolution limitations are even *worse* than DVI proper.
Azalyn: hdmi can't do anything higher than 1920x1200, just like single link dvi.
mjr: incorrect, the spec allows for more bandwidth over that single link (though first versions did not, and I'm unsure if a lot of equipment support that extended bandwidth in practice)
meGenius: so, i think i'm going towards the dp :)
mjr: anyway, of course I'm agreeing that dp is the superior and more future-proof solution
mjr: just that hdmi isn't quite as bad as you make it out to be, at least theoretically ;)
Azalyn: mjr: i don't think that's correct. the spec has a standard for dual-link hdmi, but it is a completely different connector, and it's wider, and of course not implemented on anything yet (will it ever be?)
meGenius: the problem in hdmi is the cable
meGenius: dp cables are a lot longer than the hdmi cables
Azalyn: mjr: it appears you're correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison
Azalyn: heh, i shudder to think what kind of hacks they had to pull off to get that.
Azalyn: meGenius: yeah. displayport can also use fibre optic cables. where the cable has built-in devices to convert the copper signal into the kind used over the fibre.
Azalyn: they designed the standard so that you can power inexpensive adaptors without any external power source.
Azalyn: that's why displayport can convert to pretty much any video standard with inexpensive (like 20 bucks maybe) active converter devices.
Azalyn: which i guess you could say makes it backwards compatible with everything.
Azalyn: in the case of hdmi, the standard also allows *passive* adaptors to be used for compatibility. this is the kind of displayports that apple uses i believe, they use passive adaptors to convert to hdmi.
mastertheknife: steam for linux will require Nvidia Geforce 8 series or newer
Azalyn: ?
somename: why? source?
Azalyn: that makes no sense whatsoever.
mastertheknife: The mac one requires geforce 8 or newer. Seems like Valve is targetting OpenGL 3.0/3.1 or even 3.2
mastertheknife: Yeah in the Source engine
mastertheknife: The OS X client uses OpenGL 2.1 with some 3.X extensions because OpenGL 3.0 is not yet available in OS X
mastertheknife: With OpenGL 2.1, Geforce 6 and 7 series are supported but valve left them out of the "System requirements for Source on Mac"
mastertheknife: Probably because they will switch to OpenGL 3.0 (or 3.1 or 3.2) at later stage
mastertheknife: They are putting pressure on Apple to release newer OpenGL for the OS X
Azalyn: given that the d3d renderer can fall back to d3d8 if it needs to, which is almost equivalent to opengl 1.x
Azalyn: i don't see that this makes sense
mastertheknife: It doesn't work that way
somename: i still wonder why i dont have hpl.h
Azalyn: i think you are making a lot of assumptions.
somename: penumbra overture needs it
somename: to compile
mastertheknife: In the OS X, DirectX level is locked at 9.0
mastertheknife: and there is a library the presents DirectX 9 interface to the engine, and translates those calls to OpenGL 2.1 (with some 3.X extensions)
mastertheknife: much like wine
Azalyn: i'm talking about the technology in general though, not the osx-specific limitations. there is no reason to assume that they will carry over the same limitations in linux.
mastertheknife: but probably a lot faster
NigeyUK: argh pulseaudio is a slaaaaaaaaaaag
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: 7xxx are not supported cause they lack a needed extension on mac os
NigeyUK: laggy sound laggy sound grrrrrrrrr
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: Seems like they are targetting OpenGL 3.0 then
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: not neccesary..the extension is there on linux on the same cards
NigeyUK: wish theyd shift their ass with opengl 4
Azalyn: also, even if they have a limitation like that, it's quite possible that they are going to add support later.
christian_lappy: i doubt they wills upport 7xxx cards in mac osx
Azalyn: well i use linux anyways.
christian_lappy: talking to cx devs, its a pita to work around that mossing extesnsion
meGenius: Azalyn: i didn't know that in fact :)
Azalyn: well, whatever, mac users are used to buying new shit for no good reason all the time anyways. :)
mamalujo: I wouldn't be suprised if it is wine's code
mastertheknife: Linux's OpenGL is much newer, Nvidia for example already has support for OpenGL 4.0 in linux driver 197.XX and newer, although there aren't OpenGL 4.0 cards from nvidia out there yet
christian_lappy: havily overprized new shit
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: gtx 4xx
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: are ogl 4 cars
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: Those are the fermi based ones?
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: yup
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: oh sweet
Azalyn: meGenius: the passive compatibility is optional. so your mileage may vary. in fact, apple's early laptops had passive-hdmi compatibility with their displayports, but not with audio. heh, their newer laptops have passive-hdmi with audio.
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: I can upgrade sooner than i expected then
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: my bro has one and will send it back this we
Azalyn: but active compatibility is pretty much always possible.
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: the card is like a hair dryer
meGenius: Azalyn: the dp audio was implemented by AMD, not by apple ;)
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: Heh, have you ever heard of nv30, the Geforce 5800..
Azalyn: in the case of audio, they have to be passing audio through to displayport, which is of course up to the vendor to do.
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: worst card ever
Azalyn: meGenius: i suppose. i guess they use ati chipsets? heh. i suppose amd didn't push audio to dp in the older chipsets. but in any case, i meant that the new laptops have it now.
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: i had a geforec 2, 4, 6, 7,8, and now gtx260
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: You remember all the hype about the nv30, and then they sent it to testers with the name Geforce 5800 and everyone called it a hair dryer and stuff.. eventually that card wasn't released
meGenius: Azalyn: no no
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: I had Geforce 2 MX 400, then Geforce 4, then Geforce 8800 GT and my next card will be Nvidia OpenGL 4.0 one
meGenius: Azalyn: i meant that AMD was the first to implement audio for the dp
christian_lappy: btw, is there a valve irc ?
Nevtus: doubt they'll be an offical one
somename: i just git cloned the HPL1engine repo
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: there is #steampowered but its unofficial one, and current ops are mac ones
meGenius: Azalyn: & since the dp is royailty-free, all the companies now implement their implementations
Nevtus: mastertheknife: what network?
mastertheknife: freenode
mastertheknife: lol many left now i see
mastertheknife: it was a place for mac fanboys to gather few days before launch
Nevtus: pff
Azalyn: so wait, did i hear this correctly? valve is using a d3d->opengl translation layer in the mac port? :|
Azalyn: has this been confirmed?
Azalyn: or is it just speculation?\
Nevtus: this channel has more or less become a version of that for linux users
giselher: sounds like ... wine
Nevtus: it does indeed
manaphuun: that would suck
Nevtus: Azalyn: a Valve employee stated that on the forum
mastertheknife: Yes, its in the forums
giselher: but rbarris said it's not like wine
mastertheknife: rbarris explained all.
mastertheknife: Yeah
manaphuun: mastertheknife: do you have a link?
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267720
manaphuun: thx
mastertheknife: read all the thread..
mastertheknife: :)
mastertheknife: he posted replies in all pages
Azalyn: they probably don't know what wine is then. heh
NigeyUK: The performance issues being investigated are generally driver level things - below this layering. The layering doesn't exhibit any noticeable overhead in our profiling.
NigeyUK: The whole app is compiled with gcc as a native Mach-O binary using the OS X toolchain.
NigeyUK: hmm
NigeyUK: sceptical
giselher: He didn't answer my question if it works in windows (or other operating systems) :-)
NigeyUK: true :p
Nevtus: if it did work in Windows you could very easily benchmark the performance differences (and whether it has got wine-like performance problems)
Nevtus: but I doubt they'll offer the opengl renderer in the Windows builds
Nevtus: in fact I think they confirmed they wouldn't somewhere
somename: if linux gets mainstream, microsoft would make something like wine and call it "lime"
Nevtus: somename: cygwin already exists
Azalyn: even wine isn't necessarily always a drain on resources. most of the wine code is implemented at the same 'level' as the windows libraries are in windows. the d3d->opengl library is the usual exception, until gallium3d there was no consistent lower level api to target. and even in the future gallium may not be on every platform that wine supports.
somename: :p
jumbers: Nevtus: That doesn't even make sense
Gnurdux: mastertheknife, he actually didn't "explain all"
Azalyn: and i've been told that it is theoretically possible for even the d3d->opengl library to run at native speeds. it's just a matter of optimization. idealy you'd only notice that it takes a bit longer to load, but once loaded the game would perform the same.
Nevtus: jumbers: what doesn't? Start it up in DirectX mode and note FPS and performance, then start it up in OpenGL mode and note FPS and performance
Gnurdux: reading that thread i can't even tell whether the calls he implement were directx
Gnurdux: or whether they were calls that themselves wrap on directx
jumbers: Nevtus: Comparing cygwin to wine
jumbers: They're exact opposites of each other
mastertheknife: I think we can all agree that DirectX 9 through wine is painfully slow..
somename: +1
Azalyn: also, if you implemented all of d3d on top of GLSL (in other words, both HLSL and non-HLSL functionality from D3D), then you could in theory eliminate almost all overhead for any card that supports GLSL
Nevtus: jumbers: ??? I was replying to somename's comment about running linux apps on windows
mastertheknife: their dx9->opengl thing will be much faster than wine dx9, and will probably also look a lot better
Azalyn: even so, i'm still disappointed with this. i would've expected them to have a native design.
mastertheknife: They have native for sound and input though
somename: since they got the source, it should be a lot better
giselher: and window buttons :)
Azalyn: like i just finished saying though, wine being slow is mostly an implementation detail. their layer is still a layer.
mastertheknife: maybe once linux and mac game community grows they will do a native solution
Azalyn: even if it's faster, that just makes it faster than wine, that doesn't mean it's different in principle.
Nevtus: it's also official supported which is a plus
asraniel: i think it's quite native what they did
Nevtus: *officially
asraniel: if done the right way it's just a wrapper, i don't see how that would affect performance
giselher: they only need to make a libsteam and libvgui and the community makes their own solution in gtk and qt
mastertheknife: Yeah its native but with unnecessary overhead
asraniel: i don't see how
mastertheknife: At least the GoldSrc engine is an OpenGL engine
Azalyn: the reason it installs both dlls and dylibs on all platforms is probably so that if you move the windows dir to a mac or vice-versa, it will work without having to go online to get the other files.
asraniel: if the compiler is good, it should optimize the wrapper out
DonScott: as long as it runs a lot faster than wine i'll be happy
mamalujo: isn't reimplementing wine a gigantic, slow process? doesn't some virtual machine use wine's code to get direct3d hw acceleration?
giselher: Azalyn: that would explain why portal has a hl2_osx binary and not hl2
mastertheknife: I'm sure in their next engine they will code OpenGL natively (probably together with Direct3D)
Nevtus: mamalujo: I think Virtualbox does
asraniel: it should. wine has alot of other stuff todo, that slows stuff down. But when reading the phoronix benchmarks i think the biggest problem for macs are the gpu drivers anyway
DonScott: yeah
mamalujo: i think there was another one, on mac, parallelis maybe?
mastertheknife: asraniel: Also, OpenGL support in OS X is very lagging behind
asraniel: that too
kloplop321: it seems they have very optimized screensavers though :P
Azalyn: the wine problems aren't really related to it having "a lot to do", in theory wine should be no slower than the original windows libraries.
Azalyn: the problem is that they have not optimized wine.
asraniel: giselher: they don't have to reimplement all of wine. just the direct3d parts, and not even all of it, just the stuff needed for the engine.
Azalyn: they are focusing on compatibility
Sir_Brizz: any of you guys familiar with hacking LCD TVs?
Azalyn: other issues are simply bugs and bottlenecks (like the DIB issue, which will be fixed whenever a DIB engine gets merged)
mastertheknife: asraniel: As far as i know from valve employees in the forum, sound and input is completely native inside the engine, with openGL being the only thing done as a layer
rsk: since when do you need to hack a TV?
Sir_Brizz: rsk, my TV has a USB port on it, and supposedly you can enable it for media playback
Sir_Brizz: unfortunately I can't find out HOW to do it
mamalujo: in any case, if opengl can convince developers it has gained some momentum again, it might be able to push directx to being an optional side-thing, rather than the dominant platform for contemporary games
Azalyn: heh... what kind of media?
Azalyn: images or something?
Sir_Brizz: yeah and videos
mamalujo: that's a better sollution than d3d emulations ;)
asraniel: mastertheknife: jeah, i see that too that way. would make sense anyway. so i think it should run at native speed
Azalyn: i don't see how.
mastertheknife: asraniel: much faster than wine :)
kloplop321: is crossover optimized?
Azalyn: where as jpeg is pretty much a universal standard for images... there are far too many video codecs for something like a monitor to implement them all.
asraniel: mastertheknife: of course, i don't see the connection with wine anyway everybody sees
Azalyn: unless it only supports mpeg.
Azalyn: but mpeg would be lame to support in a monitor.
Azalyn: the only issue right now with opengl is that it's not *included* with windows. except for the lame opengl->d3d layer that microsoft includes...
Azalyn: you have to install your vendor drivers to get it
mastertheknife: mamalujo: OpenGL 4.0 is a killer, i hope in 2-3 years we will have a lot of games using that instead of Direct3D crap that microsoft pushes to keep people developing for windows, blindly locking them to Windows.
Sir_Brizz: well supposedly it can do divx xvid and h264
mastertheknife: There is an interesting article on wolfire about this
Nevtus: Azalyn: gamers usually install vendor drivers though, plus you could bundle it or direct them to the link
mastertheknife: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX
Azalyn: Nevtus: yeah, i know. but game companies probably think that it's a bunch of trouble. and may be afraid of microsoft crippling it further, like they've been doing all this time.
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: read that and he is totally right
Sir_Brizz: although I think a lot of people use DirectX because the API is a lot easier to get used to than OpenGL
Azalyn: honestly, opengl has *never* been behind direct3d in my opinion. i mean ok, so some things were more 'difficult' to do in opengl... like before opengl2, you had to use the extensions to do shaders.. and as i understand those extensions had some kind of assembly-like syntax.
Nevtus: Azalyn: at some point, people just have to stand up for themselves. Id software have been doing it for years with their use of OpenGL
Azalyn: but still. it's not like the features werent there.
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: I did read it yesterday, its an awesome article.
Azalyn: any competent programmer would have always been able to get the same visuals from both APIs.
Azalyn: and post-GL2, that is even more true.
Nevtus: OpenGL is more powerful too, which is why it's used in professional graphics and movie CGI
Azalyn: everyone is too obsessed about wanting features rolled into the "core api"
mastertheknife: Azalyn: this is not the case anymore, many extensions are now part of the official standard and there is GLSL now for shaders
Azalyn: the extension-hate has to end. heh
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: Actually many say that OpenGL is the easier one, but like the article says, much code for DirectX because the Xbox and the Xbox 360 use DirectX, so porting is much easier later if they will choose they are intersted
Azalyn: mastertheknife: yeah, that's why i said post-GLSL it's even more true that they can get the same results with both APIs. because GL2 has GLSL
Azalyn: aren't there any middleware companies that offer an opengl implementation for the xbox?
Nevtus: MS wouldn't allow that
Azalyn: how could they stop it?
Nevtus: it's the DirectXbox ;)
giselher: lol
Azalyn: or don't modern consoles allow you to code bare-metal anymore?
Azalyn: any game console allows bare-metal programming as far as i know. but it's true that modern ones seem to have a hypervisor, which allows the "home menu" functionality, so it seems that some kind of OS must be running behind the scenes... but still.
mastertheknife: heh
DonScott: the only game i've regretted buying for the PC so far is GTA IV
Azalyn: if games consoles really no longer allow you to bypass the firmware to code bare metal, then honestly, consoles have become even more like PC's then i would have imagined.
mastertheknife: "OpenGL is supported on every gaming platform, including Mac, Windows, Linux, PS3 (as a GCM wrapper), Wii, iPhone, PSP, and DS. Well, every gaming platform except for the XBox"
Azalyn: there is no longer any advantage besides the perceived 'safety' from piracy, which is actually an illusion... to coding for consoles.
Nevtus: even if you did get opengl running on the xbox, MS wouldn't let you put out the game in any offical way
somename: M$ is pure evil
Azalyn: Nevtus: if they allow bare-metal coding, then i'm not sure they could do anything.
DonScott: i dont think they're evil i just think they're dicks
DonScott: err
DonScott: yeah
kloplop321: agrees with somename
mastertheknife: They want monopoly with everything, lol.
babai: Azalyn, ps3 have not been cracked. YET
babai: *has
The_Muh: somename: not pure evil... maybe 80% but not pure
Nevtus: it was sort of cracked, Sony dropped the Other OS support because of it :(
Azalyn: that's not why i said it's an illusion, babai. heh
The_Muh: okay... 90%
somename: lets say 99,9%
Azalyn: it's just that people seem to think it's the drm that protects them.. but it's more accurately the difference in components.
Azalyn: especially the architecture.
mastertheknife: Notice that even latest versions of Internet Explorer far from being full compliant with standards such as css2, because Microsoft to still code for IE (broken code), so people will use IE because it works on "all sites"
babai: every hacker in the world is waiting for geohot to crack it
Azalyn: i don't know if he's still working on that
mastertheknife: Microsoft wants sites to still code for IE*
Azalyn: he released his hack
Azalyn: others are still trying to replicate it
babai: that hack is of no use for pirating games
Nevtus: mastertheknife: basically, MS wants everyone to code for them
babai: its just a proof that it can be done
kloplop321: doesn't want to code for IE 7, but must eventually set a css file to fix the things microsoft is incompetent about
mastertheknife: Nevtus: Yeah
mastertheknife: If Microsoft could, they would have removed OpenGL support in windows
zak1111: true dat
Nevtus: they are probably still considering it
Azalyn: there's apparently these javascript libraries you can use, they're clientside. you host them on your site by using conditional if statements in your website.
mastertheknife: Its competiting with their DirectX
Azalyn: so 'if' an IE browser goes..
Azalyn: it will load the javascript, which fixes rendering errors
zak1111: yes at long last
zak1111: there's been a slow migration towards open-source in general
zak1111: i think it's inevitable it will overtake it eventually
Azalyn: microsoft is being watched by many government agencies these days
Azalyn: they can't do anything they want
zak1111: granted it may be like 20 years or so
Azalyn: look at how much they've been owned in europe.
Azalyn: heh
mastertheknife: zak1111: 10 years
zak1111: even better
Azalyn: 10 years is too optimistic.
babai: we all hope its 5 :P
Nevtus: OpenGL has been around longer than DirectX and is used heavily in many industries already
zak1111: i hope it's tomorrow
mastertheknife: And i believe in 5 years linux's market share will grow from estimated 1.6% to 10%
babai: mastertheknife, only if steam is released
zak1111: haha
Azalyn: there are many issues that need to be solved. way too many to solve in 10 years.
Nevtus: it's just the home desktop market that DirectX is heavily used
mastertheknife: babai: Yeah, it will make many others follow
Nevtus: because of MS FUD
babai: like adobe
Azalyn: one is that we need opensource video drivers that perform as fast as the binary proprietary ones.
zak1111: yes yes
zak1111: they're getting there though
babai: need better powersaving
zak1111: once the major hardware companies start cooperating that will happen very quickly
babai: from the opensource drivers
zak1111: i think it will happen suddenly, all at once
Azalyn: even the well supported opensource drivers for the intel chips don't perform as well as the windows driver does i believe..
DonScott: linux has come along nicely from 10 years ago though.
babai: its only been 19 :P
Azalyn: we will always have the stability and security advantage... and even performance for most other things... but for 3D performance it is extremely difficult.
kloplop321: http://www.garrysmod.com/news/?p=10261 linux server binaries are being tested apparently
Azalyn: and thus far the progress in that area has been very slow.
zak1111: every generation of programmers basically takes what the last generation viewed as science and makes it intuition
zak1111: 3d will be fine soon
Nevtus: Azalyn: not really, linux 3D graphics workstations have been used in film sfx for years
Nevtus: hence the good propietary drivers
Azalyn: Nevtus: yes, with proprietary drivers...
Azalyn: i'm talking about opensource drivers.
babai: better xorg,standardised packaging , better hibernating support: these have to fixed soon enough
zak1111: 3d will be fine soon, it's the 3d glasses stuff that will be the next struggle
Azalyn: we cannot count on proprietary drivers forever, they are a kludge, and are holding back linux's true potential.
Azalyn: we need opensource drivers that perform the same.
babai: reverse engineering gpu drivers is the hardest thing on the planet
Azalyn: it is an absolute requirement if we're ever to gain any real marketshare.
zak1111: yeah we need to move away from reverse engineering and start leading the field ourselves
mastertheknife: kloplop321: Suprising, thanks
Nevtus: I'm not sure I follow that. While open source drivers are good, having to use the closed source ones won't hold off linux gaining market share
Azalyn: even microsoft can't deal with drivers that aren't their own. that's why they needed WHQL, because they know third-party drivers suck ass.
Azalyn: they know you can't trust other companies to code worth a shit.
somename: microsofts one and only product by themselves: their mouse-driver
zak1111: nope
Azalyn: even windows 95/98 would probably have been 'decent' if it wasn't for all the driver problems.
zak1111: that came from xerox
mastertheknife: Azalyn: Actually intel drivers are dead stable, they just lack some support for OpenGL, i'm not sure if this a software or hardware limitation
somename: it was supposed to be a joke :p
zak1111: lol
Azalyn: mastertheknife: re-read what i said. i already said we have the stability/security advantage, but not *performance*
Nevtus: the problem is both graphic hardware is complex and (currently) closed spec
Azalyn: with the exception of ATI hardware.
Azalyn: heh
mastertheknife: ATI on windows is not that great either, well at least few years ago
Azalyn: AMD/ATI has released 2d/3d documentation for all modern ati hardware.
zak1111: nvidia really needs to follow suit
babai: if steam ends up on linux ati will lose many customers for their poor drivers
zak1111: nvidia has better hardware imho
Ivanovic: zak1111: how to write a driver lets say for an nvidia card with no specs and without reverse engeneering?
Ivanovic: sounds rather impossible to me...
Azalyn: zak1111: not anymore.
Ivanovic: babai: uhm, don't think so
mastertheknife: Azalyn: why not?
Azalyn: nvidia's latest hardware is broken and inefficient as i hear.
Ivanovic: babai: fglrx works really well with native progs
Azalyn: amd/ati has taken the lead now.
Ivanovic: it is just wine that does not work nicely
Azalyn: with their 5xxx series
zak1111: ah, well my card is an 8700M gt so i'm not exactly the most up to date with their stuff either
Azalyn: the 5xxx series is better in both performance and efficiency.
Azalyn: not only does it beat nvidia, it smokes them.
DonScott: yup
redeeman: Azalyn: except there are no drivers, so effectively nvidia still wins
zak1111: good to hear
DonScott: it's quieter....less energy and better performence
Azalyn: redeeman: on linux yeah, but i was responding to zak1111's "hardware is better" comment
zak1111: i mean that ati has taken the lead
redeeman: Azalyn: on any OS
DonScott: nvidia is still a noisy power hog
Azalyn: the windows drivers are fine.
redeeman: no they're not
mastertheknife: I'm looking forward to the 4XX series of Nvidia, OpenGL 4.0
DonScott: the 480 is
Ivanovic: redeeman: there are the proprietary drivers for 5XXX cards on linux
Azalyn: when was the last time you used ati? heh
Ivanovic: what makes you think that there are no drivers?
redeeman: no drivers that works that is
Azalyn: the legacy drivers were very bad, but they rewrote the whole opengl stack at one point.
Ivanovic: redeeman: if you want them to work with wine: they likely won't work perfectly
Ivanovic: redeeman: but for native apps they do work
redeeman: i want them to pass opengl compliance tests
Ivanovic: or exactly state what does *not*
redeeman: wine is a native app
Azalyn: i've played crysis in windows with an hd 4850, and it worked great. in both xp and windows 7beta.
Ivanovic: wine is a crude wrapper
redeeman: wine is native linux elf binary, yes or no?
Administrator__: Azalyn, 4850 is a great card , but boils eggs, literally
redeeman: now where wine gets its info on what opengl stuff to run from, is another matter, and entirely unrelated
Azalyn: actually the wine libs are hybrids. they are natively elf, but also have PE stuff in them.
Ivanovic: but you do use it to wrap over dx stuff and wine is known to not work nicely with ati cards since some time ago they were completely centered on nvidia using nvidia specific stuff
Azalyn: hence why the extensions of the libraries are "dll.so" for wine.
redeeman: not nessecarily
redeeman: Azalyn: lol, tahts merely because they implement those features from those dll's
Ivanovic: and honestly, at least for me wine does not matter at all, especially not for 3D apps
Azalyn: Administrator_: hm, it doesn't for me.. are you confusing it with the dual-gpu one?
Ivanovic: if you want wine: better install windows
babai: Azalyn, nope my friend has one
Ivanovic: since you already need to have a license for it anyway (IIRC there is some license infridgement with fonts otherwise)
redeeman: Ivanovic: you obviously do not get it, wine is an application that runs fully on linux, it must work same as any other
Azalyn: redeeman: uh, no. i have seen posts on the mailing list, where the developers discuss the design... the libraries do have some PE stuff in them.
rsk: Ivanovic if you want wine. you get wine. why would you get windows to get somethig you didn't want in the first place?
redeeman: what wine does other than its opengl pipeline is irellevant
Ivanovic: redeeman: and when have you exactly tested the last time what does not work?
somename: funny that you can vote your own packages in AUR
babai: somename, lol
redeeman: Ivanovic: thankfully i do not get to test these things myself, besides, it would be impossible seeing as how their shitty drivers doesn't even run on kernels that arent already being transported to museums
NigeyUK: lol
Ivanovic: redeeman: okay, so you state that their driver does not work based on "i never tested it myself"
Azalyn: redeeman is correct about wine being native though. heh even though it does implement some PE stuff, that doesn't make it non-native.
Ivanovic: this is great
Azalyn: it is a native app.
Ivanovic: ;)
mamalujo: well, basically, I couldh't care less , few fps more or less, given the crap game industry is producing generally for the last say half a decade, chances a great game will come along, and I won't be fine with waiting a few years to play through a backlog are miniscule
Ivanovic: i explicitly state that those apps that i *have* tested do just work and state that i don't know about wine since i have not tested it
redeeman: Azalyn: what wine does to pass through its opengl pipeline is entirely irellevant, fact is, that the rendering parts of wine are NATIVE
Azalyn: why are you telling me that? :|
redeeman: Ivanovic: i don't need to test myself to observe other peoples test results
Azalyn: i just agreed that it was native.
redeeman: Azalyn: you also said it was non-native
Azalyn: in fact i was saying the same thing before you even showed up.
Ivanovic: redeeman: honestly, what i see is often a case of "okay, so your system is f***ed up and you are suprised it does not work?"
Azalyn: no, i said it has some PE stuff as well.
Azalyn: which is true.
Ivanovic: so how can i really trust in those results?
redeeman: because i said so
redeeman: and its funny how those "fucked up" systems suddenly work so well when the graphics hardware/drivers are changed, no?
Azalyn: anyways, bottom line, we need performant opensource drivers in linux.
Azalyn: instead of all this proprietary crap.
Azalyn: i'm hoping the ati drivers get there, with all this documentation in the wild.
babai: is it only because of the nvidia drivers that cross platform opengl based games like nexuiz perform better on windows than on linux?
Azalyn: i've already decided to start buying ATI hardware only.
babai: or opengl implementation is better on windows
Ivanovic: babai: it is not
Azalyn: for now i'll just use a kvm and have a dedicated gaming box. and i'll deal with proprietary drivers. heh..
Azalyn: but eventually i'm hoping the drivers get faster.
Ivanovic: babai: in fact nvidia and ati both use the same opengl stack in their linux drivers that they also use in the windows driver
babai: so why is it giving less fps on linux?
mamalujo: Azalyn, agreed, but gallium is a fairly recent thing, as are the major projects to develop these. I personally plan to start using them in autumn, when new debian stable is out
Ivanovic: babai: *where* is it giving less fps?
Ivanovic: using which drivers?
babai: phoronix test results
Azalyn: mamalujo: that's the big issue right now... they've practically rewritten the entire 3D stack
Azalyn: from top to bottom
redeeman: babai: haha you can never trust phoronix results
Azalyn: the whole video stack even
babai: they only tried ubuntu though
Azalyn: i mean we've got DRI2, KMS, the TTM memory manager, Gallium3D, XRandR (version 1.3 is especially important, because before 1.3, you couldn't have multi-monitor with different cards)
Azalyn: and god knows what else... did i forget anything? heh
babai: i will test nexuiz on my arch box, but phoronix suite wants the download the whole game, but i already have it on my hdd
mamalujo: i'll be satisfied if its neatly packed, and can support xcompmgr, and as far as fps goes, don't give a damn
Ivanovic: babai: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part1&num=1
Ivanovic: seeing this i'd say that the ati driver is basically comparable on windows and linux
Ivanovic: speed ain't worse
mamalujo: the performance hit is definitely worth it to get rid of the ugly blob in the kernel. now if video tag adoption also picks up by then, hell I can go linux-libre and contemplate a motherboard supported by coreboot ;) 100% free
Azalyn: and apart from that, we also have a new Xinput API, which is probably going to be the preferred API for future applications. there's actually a bug in wine that cannot be fixed outside of using Xinput2
babai: Ivanovic, hmm but its giving mixed results on different systems though
Azalyn: and the next x server is going to just ditch HAL..
Azalyn: heh..
Ivanovic: babai: of course it is
Ivanovic: babai: but at least the ati driver is rather comparable
Azalyn: lots of shit is happening, and none of it is mainstream yet...
babai: Azalyn, xorg 1.8 is current
Azalyn: real pain in the ass to play the waiting game.
mamalujo: yeah, it does seem exciting. well better that then the period where x11 was basically stagnant
babai: Ivanovic, interesting to see opteron doing so good
Ivanovic: like i said, the ati drivers *are* okay
Ivanovic: at least i have not had any serious problems when using them
Ivanovic: and this is on gentoo unstable 64bit
Ivanovic: could play etqw, jack keane, ankh2, rainslick and other things without issues
somename: somebody ever worked with cmake?
Ivanovic: sure
somename: i got the building files. whats after that?
somename: penumbra uses cmake
Ivanovic: normally you build from a specific build dir to keep the checkout clean
Megagun: STEAM FOR LINUX CONFIRMED!?
rsk: no
Ivanovic: so create a builddir
Megagun: :P
DonScott: lol
Azalyn: babai: hm, interesting, didn't realize it launched. at least that's good news. however, while the server is out, the X11 release that includes it isn't.
Azalyn: X11R7.6 that is.
Ivanovic: mkdir penumbra_c
Ivanovic: cd penumbra_c
zak1111: oh i tried to compile penumbra last night
zak1111: failed horrible
zak1111: *horribly
Ivanovic: cmake ../folder_with_source_tree/CMakeLists.txt
somename: yeah, i already got the directory with the .cmake files
Ivanovic: afterwards you can run "ccmake ." to change some options (oder use cmake-gui)
zak1111: don't you need glee to compile penumbra?
Ivanovic: then build using plain "make"
somename: there is no makefile in it
mastertheknife: Penumbra:Overture is a great game, and the engine is also very good
Megagun: I'm too pussy to play Penumbra Overture
zak1111: maybe i'll give it another shot today
mastertheknife: good to have it open source
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: no binary patched needed :P
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: you can hack the source :-)
Nevtus: yes you need glee to compile it
zak1111: i couldn't get glee to compile
zak1111: nor could i find it in the repos
Nevtus: what distro?
zak1111: ubuntu
somename: luckily arch linux got it in AUR
Nevtus: ah, can't help then
Azalyn: [11:59:25] yeah, it does seem exciting. well better that then the period where x11 was basically stagnant
somename: AUR has everything :p
Azalyn: it is exciting... sorta..
Megagun: does AUR also have boobies?
Azalyn: but for us "stable users" ... we are still stagnant
Nevtus: somename: yup I got the PKGBUILD from the AUR too
Azalyn: :|
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: Yeah but if you read the code and see you want to change something, diassembling, finding it and patching can be faster than compiling if its a really small change
Azalyn: on gentoo, they still haven't stabilized baselayout2/openrc yet... and yet practically no one is using the old baselayout anymore... no one is maintaining it either. as a result no one can even help you if you have a problem with the old system.
somename: OH
somename: i got it
somename: cmake created a Makefile
babai: hows the new fglrx, neone tried it?
Azalyn: there's a new release?
babai: the one that supports xorg 1.8
Azalyn: is that the only change?
Azalyn: or did they do some other stuff
babai: i dont know, so i asked
babai: the previous ones were crap
babai: seems their only focus is workstations
somename: sigh...
somename: thousand dependencies
Nevtus: somename: penumbra right? you need angelscript, newton-dynamics and GLee, you also need to edit the GLee PKGBUILD so that it installs in /usr/include/GL rather than /usr/include
somename: ah... thats why it doesnt compile here :/ shitty glee
jvizzle: SupremeFX X-Fi sound card drivers out that work?
Nevtus: somename: I've still yet to solve the problem of not having a efx-creative.h
somename: me too...
jvizzle: Nevtus efx?
manaphuun: how long does it take to create a paypal account? i seriously want that humble indie bundle
manaphuun: and theres only 3 hours left
Nevtus: jvizzle: yeah I have a efx.h but penumbra wants a efx-creative.h too
christian_lappy: manaphuun: ydo you have onloine bacnking ?
manaphuun: yes
NigeyUK: antpk, :P
jvizzle: Nevtus: ahhh, I just can't get my microphone to work on quake wars and on my aspiring white boy hip hop career
christian_lappy: for activatin they will send you 2 cent or somethin gto you bank and you have to send it back to them
christian_lappy: manaphuun: i fear that will not work
antpk: Nige :P
manaphuun: but i guess that takes more than 3 hours
christian_lappy: sadly, yes
NigeyUK: jvizzle, how'd you get QW running without the sound lag ?
rsk: dont say qw
rsk: qw = quakeworld
jvizzle: NigeyUK: turn down the volume
rsk: please have some respect
NigeyUK: lol rsk sorry!
NigeyUK: jvizzle, hmm ok..
jvizzle: Nigeyuk: im trying to find a driver
jvizzle: Also if you don't hit escape while playing hte sound usually keeps up pretty good
NigeyUK: ahh ill give it a go
NigeyUK: not keen on removing pulseaudio :/
scheka: manaphuun: i think you can send your money directly with "giropay" to your paypal account. without confirming that your bank-account exist.
jvizzle: I usually find that when i hit escape to change a setting it really starts lagging.
r4: did someone say QW?!
manaphuun: scheka: how fast is it?
NigeyUK: yeah i had that earlier escaping to the limbo screen makes it lag badly
r4: rsk: there is nothign wrong iwth saying qw :P
jvizzle: who has a copy to send me i accidently deleted my fuhquake folder on my external.
rsk: it is.
jvizzle: NigeyUK: yeah it goes into 10 second lag
NigeyUK: ouch
rsk: say qw or et:qw.
jvizzle: QW
jvizzle: fuhquake
NigeyUK: lmao
r4: NigeyUK: look for a client called Fodquake, its not bloated like ezquake although it is beta
r4: Fodquake is a fork of fuhquake
r4: after it died
scheka: manaphuun: never tried it. but i think this will send your money directly without waiting to your account
scheka: manaphuun: you only need pin+tan
jvizzle: I need to download that quake and make you chew on my broomstick r4
r4: haha
NigeyUK: lol
manaphuun: i could try that, thanks
r4: the quake series is awesome... :)
r4: qw is the best!
r4: ql is ok :x
jvizzle: yeah my 55yr old dad still plays quake3
rsk: someone just said q4 is awwsome
rsk: and i died a little bit inside :(
r4: haha
r4: rsk: where ya from?
rsk: sweden
jvizzle: quake1 masters
jvizzle: deathrow used to own them though so its ok
r4: ahh :)
Megagun: q4 looked kind of okay to me. What was wrong with it?
jvizzle: Megagun have you played the other quakes?
r4: it wasnt qw :P
Megagun: (I must admit to never having played it all the way through, or even getting all that far with it)
Megagun: jvizzle, yep, all of em. :P
Megagun: But are you referring more to multiplayer or singleplayer?
jvizzle: Megagun: so whats wrong with quake 4 if you played others :P
jvizzle: Multiplayer
Megagun: I heard that q4 multi was horrible. But singleplayer?
r4: quake is known for its multiplayer aspect
r4: dueling is the best!
Megagun: I think I heard primarily nice things about q4 singleplayer
jvizzle: Singleplayer is like drinking a natural light instead of a corona
DeathCrawler: OALWrapper is free now
DeathCrawler: lol
rsk: quakeworld 1on1 finals today
rsk: =)
r4: both of those beers suck :P
rsk: 20:00 CET
Megagun: doesn't do alcohol; got a car analogy instead?
r4: get yourself a guiness :)
NigeyUK: eww
jvizzle: id rather slam my dick in a door
rsk: http://tastyspleen.tv/live if there's someone who wants to watch
r4: ok how about some heineken?
NigeyUK: pmsl
Megagun: (or rather, I'd probably drink the same amount of beer in a year as you do in a week... :P )
jvizzle: in moderation
Megagun: *alcohol
jvizzle: im going to watch RSK
jvizzle: ive been watching the old deathrow vs 9 tournies on youtube
rsk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IkAutnBl5A <- best youtube vid ever
jvizzle: old school or new stuff and the site is downloading like shit, has the feed started?
rsk: the tastyspleen?
jvizzle: yeah im there now
rsk: no it starts 20:00 cet in 90minutes
jvizzle: ahh i see you on there as Pappy-R
jvizzle: rsk: these are the 1v1's?
rsk: yep
jvizzle: rsk that youtube video is you getting owned by my broomstick
r4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kT_WGrL3Fs <----To show you how crazy quakeworld really is
r4: intro is roughly 1min long
jvizzle: i used to play in 1996 until I joined the army in 2002
Kvisle: joined the army in 2002? are you an american?
jvizzle: Kvisle: yes
Megagun: qw is too hardcore for me.
jvizzle: its fast
Megagun: It's like CS:S only 100 times worse
Kvisle: I'm curious about why one would join the army if one could avoid it :\
Megagun: In CS:S, I join and a minute later get headshotted by some guy 900m away from me.
Azalyn: are you a bad enough dude to play qw?
r4: watch that vid and you'll see how fast qw is :)
Megagun: In qw, I join and before I'd have spawned, I've already gotten owned at least 10 times. :P
jvizzle: get some armor and weapons
jvizzle: and run
Azalyn: is it really that bad?
Megagun: Yeah, I know. I still get owned though. :P
r4: no its not that bad :P
Azalyn: i've played nexuiz before which can also be very frantic... and done well
Megagun: Same thing with Quake Live.
r4: qw is the most hardcore fps game ever made probably though
jvizzle: Nexuiz is lame with the weapons though
Azalyn: yeah, the weapons are all ugly.
Azalyn: and not very 'memorable'
jvizzle: they have too many
r4: Azalyn: if you've never played qw before i guarnatee i could beat you 50 to some negative score becaues you accidently killed yourself
Azalyn: even if i've played other fps's? ...
Azalyn: the hell?
rsk: yep
r4: yes
rsk: probably more thou
rsk: maybe 70-80 on dm4 :)
Azalyn: what makes it so bad?
rsk: why is a game bad
rsk: when skill makes you frag the other guy
rsk: instead of having everything "balanced"
r4: qw is A LOT of skill
rsk: and extremly simple
rsk: lol
r4: when ppl of even skill play the scores dont get that bad ;P
Azalyn: games like nexuiz and legacy-quake aren't really 'balanced' either...
mamalujo: Kvisle: maybe the pay is good. I it puzzling though, yes
jvizzle: r4: if you know how to Bhop your good
rsk: what's legacy-quake?
Azalyn: in fact, that is supposed to be what nexuiz is about, going back to the 'roots' of fps games.
r4: jvizzle: somewhat :P
Azalyn: rsk: the original quake
rsk: ok
Kvisle: mamalujo: I think the real question is --- would one do it again?
r4: he's talking about NQ
rsk: that's usually called NQ or RQ
mamalujo: hah
rsk: not legacy-quake
Azalyn: feh, semantics.
antpk: bunny hopping, now the game that I always remember for that was action quake 2. some insane skill some people had
mamalujo: it cant be bad provided there are no wars ATM :)
Azalyn: hm... there's some other game that relies a lot on bunny hoping.
Azalyn: it's open i believe
mamalujo: swedish army, that I can imagine joining ;)
Azalyn: forgot the name though
Azalyn: damnit..
Nevtus: Warsow
Azalyn: yes!
Azalyn: is it like that?
Azalyn: that was a bit hard, but i did start to get the hang of it after awhile. but it is challenging.
rsk: it isnt bunnyhop in warsow
rsk: it's some automatic thingy that just makes you go forward faster over time
Azalyn: so quake world is more like real quake?
r4: not sure what you mean by that
rsk: quakeworld is rq with enhanced UDP netcode
Azalyn: in terms of difficulty, or need for skill
rsk: well it's not about that
rsk: quakeworld has the steepest and longest learning curve i would say
r4: rsk = ruskie?
rsk: so it's the "hardest"
rsk: but also why i think it's the most fun to play and watch
rsk: ye
r4: ahh :) ezq dev iirc?
r4: i couldnt get ezq linux to work properly with multiple configs :(
rsk: not really
r4: i had to drop it and switched to fodquake (which is surprisingly good)
Azalyn: these clients can all connect to the same servers and play with eachother, right?
rsk: yep
jvizzle: rsk i used to play clan arena
Megagun: I prefer teambased FPSes, 'cause I suck too much on my own. ;)
rsk: there's TDM in quake's
jvizzle: they still play clan arena???
Megagun: And I suck at the more quake-ish FPSes
rsk: no idea i never played it
Megagun: I'm a lot better in UT2k4
jvizzle: rsk: everyone starts with 100 200 and all weapons, usually a 4v4 or 5v5 on dm3
jvizzle: and no self dmg
r4: qw 1v1 is my favorite
r4: then probably 4v4
rsk: sounds boring :p
r4: im in NA
r4: 4v4 doesnt happen really
r4: i would like to play 4v4 tbh
r4: its fun
rsk: the financal crisis cut most of the qwteams in na so...
rsk: :(
r4: tdm qw has been dead in the NA for awhile
jvizzle: at least qw came with the TF series.
jvizzle: Megagun you play those games?
Megagun: TF? no.
r4: TF is played in NA quite a bit
zak1111: yessss i finally got the penumbra engine to compile in ubuntu!
jvizzle: team fortress
jvizzle: I wish I could play TF2 on ubuntu but im not having any luck, keeps crashing my comp when im moving in
Megagun: Currently I only really play NeoTokyo, a mod on the Source engine that's almost dead but has a hardcore few left who still play.. :P
Megagun: (And Left 4 Dead 1/2)
jvizzle: heading in to server = moving
Megagun: I don't really like TF2. All deaths seem like random deaths and I never feel as if I really made any difference to the game.
Megagun: If I end up sitting at a capture point for a little while, die, and a minute later my team caps the capture point, I don't really feel like I have contributed much.
r4: jvizzle: i have mine working great
r4: i can probably help
r4: i use arch but that shouldnt matter
jvizzle: r4: ill see startup etc and then right before i go in freezes my machine
Megagun: Whereas if I flank the enemy team, shoot two of them, and then allow the rest of my team to fall in with a nice rush mopping up the rest of the enemy team in NeoTokyo (NT does not have respawns; like in CS), I do feel like I have contributed much to a victory. :)
jvizzle: r4: i added that Direct3D registery key
rsk: one hour
jvizzle: im running Ubuntu 10.04
r4: ok you need to do more than that :)
jvizzle: I have wine 1.1.42
scheka: did you guys from phoronix have a steam-group we could join?
r4: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9901 <---follow that to a T
r4: personally i think you should use hte newest wine
jvizzle: i believe that is the newest?
JEEB: yah, I was a bit disappointed that the official repo wine isn't kept up-to-date any more :/
JEEB: 1.1.44 is the newest
JEEB: thankfully installing it is rather easy
JEEB: apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
jvizzle: r4: do you start tf2 from the cmd line?
JEEB: (run with sudo, it'll add the ubuntu-wine ppa to your list of repositories)
JEEB: then you can run sudo aptitude update and sudo aptitude safe-upgrade to update your packages, now your wine will be the newest possible :3
r4: no
r4: i just launch it thru steam
Azalyn: Megagun: it's influenced by ghost in the shell?
Azalyn: heh, i see tachikomas in the screenshots
Megagun: Azalyn, yes, very.
Azalyn: that's pretty interesting, i like the scenery.
Megagun: It has major problems, though.
jvizzle: r4 I have everything done i believe, the only thing is the dxlevel 81
jvizzle: the wine settings are all good
Azalyn: the scenery reminds me a bit of red steel. heh
Megagun: For one, there's no Linux server support. For two, there's a "left-lean" bug that allows people to look at you and fire at you without you being able to spot them.. :P
Azalyn: like the outdoor areas with the shops and such
r4: you start it and nothing happens
r4: hrm
jvizzle: no
jvizzle: i can get to title screen
jvizzle: and when i look for server it will lock up at sending client information
JEEB: http://www.winehq.org/download/deb <- anyways, you can get the latest wine by following these GUI instructions too :3
Azalyn: Megagun: really sucks when a mod gets abandoned. :O
jvizzle: JEEB i just got the new one
r4: i dont know without any information really :(
jvizzle: r4: hang on
jvizzle: ok i have wine 1.1.44 now
Megagun: It's a lot of fun, but it's very harsh to new players. Even more so since there's an in-game cloak thingy which can be very hard to new players.. My favorite thing to do is to cloak and kill people without them knowing where I am. No damage direction indicators don't help things to new players either. ;)
jvizzle: r4: anything special in the wine config i need besides what was posted on the site?
r4: hrm
jvizzle: im about to add that line
r4: i have steam.exe and hl.exe set to winxp mode
jvizzle: hmm
r4: hl2.exe
r4: even
Megagun: goes to play.
jvizzle: im about to try that
r4: -dxlevel 81 -w 1680 -h 1050 -full -console -nointro -novid -heapsize 1572864 -freq 75 -nojoy -noipx -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel -noforcemspd <---------my launch options for tf2
r4: if you just want smoothest gameplay possible and not worried about appearence...
Azalyn: it's a good idea to remove the dxlevel on subsequent launches. since if you change any video settings in the game itself, they won't be saved.
r4: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/214340/
r4: check that out
r4: it wont be pretty
r4: but it will run!
Azalyn: dxlevel doesn't just change the directx level, but also puts all video settings back to the recommended ones for the card. so yeah.
Azalyn: you do it once, and then it'll always use dx 81 on future runs even if you remove the command line switch. unless you change it manually again.
Azalyn: Megagun: heh, i loved using the cloak in crysis. :)
Azalyn: i'm not altogether inexperienced in using cloaks.
zak1111: l4d works on mine
jvizzle: r4: do you use that -dxlevel in your boot?
jvizzle: r4: when i tried to start it using that windows 98 trick steam would start.
NigeyUK: anyone know how to set the quake 4 demo screen res in the config? im stuck at 640x480 and shifted to the far right of the screen :@
r4: i do have it
r4: but even with it gone
r4: it still runs fine
NigeyUK: hmm
r4: if you use that config i pasted and you did all of hte stuff on winehq's site
r4: i cant really think of anything that will help
CME: NigeyUK, change r_mode
CME: but dunno which number was which mode, just play around with it :x
NigeyUK: ah oki
DeathCrawler: ♬ Helloween - 4 Twilight Of The Gods - Keeper Of The Seven Keys Pt. I (0:20/4:30 7%) Volume 100
CME: -1 is custom mode, which you can change .. well, search for "width" and "height" in the config
NigeyUK: hm still fooked, its shifted to far to the right
antpk: Nige turn off multi monitor. i remember u said it was on
NigeyUK: ahhh
rsk: r4 14minutes
NigeyUK: that kinda fixed it, frikkin twinview (N)
antpk: lol... still making qt4.7
rsk: qt
rsk: that shit took ages to compile on gentoo
rsk: my head is hurting right now thinking about it
antpk: been about an hour sofar
Azalyn: NigeyUK: if the game has it's own height/width settings, that is one way to fix it. another way is to run wine with a virtual desktop. hehe
Azalyn: where it will be windowed
jvizzle: Rsk you have tf2 running?
rsk: no
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
mastertheknife: hilarious video
giselher: how often do you want to post this video ? :)
manaphuun: the video answer is awesome too :P
NigeyUK: Azalyn, i dont run wine, was running the q4 demo linux client :D
rsk: r4 started: http://tastyspleen.tv/?page_id=207
mastertheknife: manaphuun: what video answer?
manaphuun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENTy1nAugOI&feature=watch_response
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: that is so retarded
jvizzle: Rsk: arg tf2 froze my comp
adrian_broher: oh wow
adrian_broher: that's the average maccie?
NigeyUK: pretty much
rsk: :)
mastertheknife: adrian_broher: Yeah, lol, you're watching the original not the video response right?
mastertheknife: the original is really funny
adrian_broher: yup ;)
manaphuun: mr. mac is getting owned a bit more seriously on this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtvgpDhQVtU&feature=related
adrian_broher: oh the stereotypes...
NigeyUK: looooooooool
Azalyn: [14:02:43] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
antpk: lol
NigeyUK: "this thing called steam" pmsl
Azalyn: this guy is either a dumbass, or the most successful troll in history.
mastertheknife: "Steam just started up, NOT COOL, I don't want steam to launch itself when i start the computer, i'm very specific about my startup items"
Azalyn: and i think it might just be the latter.
Azalyn: i mean he can't possibly be serious, he has to be trolling.
manaphuun: nah, hes totally serious
mastertheknife: I think he might be trolling, I don't want to believe that this is a typical mac user
wait4steam_: hi all
wait4steam_: my steam is updating atm
mastertheknife: hi, probably just another steamclient.so update
wait4steam_: and crashes with segfault
NigeyUK: steamclient.so got an update wait4steam
wait4steam_: k thx
somename: and? any news?
manaphuun: is font rendering already working btw?
mastertheknife: no
mastertheknife: not implemented yet
mastertheknife: or bugged
DonScott: lol yeah the mactard gets pwned on this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtvgpDhQVtU&feature=related
mastertheknife: haha
mastertheknife: yeah its funny
Nevtus: haha, I approve of this video. That guy is a total idiot
mastertheknife: Nevtus: saw the original ?
Nevtus: yeah
jvizzle: ugh
mastertheknife: This video makes me think if people use macs because they are too stupid to use a pc, so they prefer paying $3000 on an easier computer
mastertheknife: or maybe that guy is trolling
jvizzle: lol, link video?
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
mastertheknife: its hilarious
IsSuE-: holy crap this guy is dumb
DonScott: nah that guy look legitimately stupid
Nevtus: yup, I think it's real
Nevtus: if it's a troll, I'm impressed
Nevtus: watching it again, the intro video is so LOL
jvizzle: yeah
giselher: so much responses
Nevtus: if you imagine a mac user, you imagine this guy
jvizzle: this guy is a moron holy shit
mastertheknife: thats a typical mac user it seems
mastertheknife: hehe
jvizzle: download it retard
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: do you have a keyboar shortcut for pastin this link ;-)
mastertheknife: christian_lappy: middle link
mastertheknife: middle mouse*
mastertheknife: lol
Oddbio: I think I'm going to go crazy if they don't release the linux client soon! o_O
christian_lappy: lol
Nevtus: wait, look at the size of the folders on his desktop. Why'd he make them so big?
DonScott: jvizzle watch this one next
DonScott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtvgpDhQVtU&feature=related
jvizzle: where do you find these dumb people on youtube?
Nevtus: youtube is mostly dump people
mastertheknife: NOT COOL
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: "i'm very specific about my startup items"
Wipster: O_o
Nevtus: if he can't install it, I doubt he'd make it far in Portal anyway
Nevtus: does this guy not even read the specs? His video card isn't supported
mastertheknife: Nevtus: He paid $3000 for his computer 3 years ago, he expects it to work.
mastertheknife: or was it 4-5 years ago
mastertheknife: lol
NigeyUK: hah muppet lol
Nevtus: I bought my computer for about £400/500 3 years ago with a £30 graphics card. It can run Portal :D
mastertheknife: its funny how a $500 PC can run Portal, but a $3000 mac bought 4 years ago can't
mastertheknife: I can't believe people pay those prices
DonScott: it's not funny ....it's sad
mastertheknife: $800 may the actual cost of the computer, the other $2200 goes to apple
mastertheknife: may be*
christian_lappy: yup
Nevtus: can you still not upgrade the graphics cards in macs?
antpk: mac pros u can
christian_lappy: for $$$$$$$$$$$$ you can
mastertheknife: Nevtus: No, and if you still change, your mac is no longer supported by apple, and you can't find osx drivers for all cards
DonScott: mac is more like the console that is a computer.
jvizzle: lol
jvizzle: Scott that video is funny
mastertheknife: As far as i know, the most expensive macs ship with 9600GT
d2kx: yeah mac os x is of advantage for linux users for obvious reasons and their interface might be nice, but at the end of the day i would never buy a mac myself, way too many restrictions
DonScott: yeah
mastertheknife: and too pricey
mastertheknife: for $700 you can buy a real nice computer with a GTX 280 video card and for $2500 you can buy a mac with 9600GT
rsk: at least mac has steam xD
d2kx: with very few games
mastertheknife: soon here...
d2kx: with more games
DonScott: doesn't matter , if that guy is the sum of the mac gaming community ....i fear the worst.
jvizzle: I want to play them
Sleepy_Coder: wonders what Apple gets by maintaining their reputation of elitist designer crap
rsk: money
antpk: believe me, he's probably an idiot in the mac community
antpk: lol
Sleepy_Coder: If they only lowered their prices by a few hundred dollars they could easily take over MS :\
Sleepy_Coder: (imo)
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: antpk: he's making a good name to the mac community
christian_lappy: likely
rsk: Sleepy_Coder that's not good
mastertheknife: Yeah, very likely
Sleepy_Coder: I never once had a hardware problem while I was running my Powerbook G4, and their OS is very easy to use...
rsk: i prefer ms over apple
d2kx: they wont reduce the prices as long as their marketshare slowly grows
rsk: apple are far more restrictive
mastertheknife: rsk: true
Sleepy_Coder: I don't prefer either, Apple is the new MS.
christian_lappy: yup#
Sleepy_Coder: :p
christian_lappy: apple is ways more drm than ms
Sleepy_Coder: I just always found it strange... when Apple was still good, they were expensive. :\
Sleepy_Coder: Hmm I say no to that.
christian_lappy: Sleepy_Coder: if you could get a mac for the rpize of a pc+win lic..ms would be history in 5 years
mastertheknife: I think steam for linux will be much more successful than for mac because linux is free, has better drivers and its much cheaper to buy a PC that can play all games at medium quality than a mac
antpk: i use macs in work etc. nothing special. for gaming yea i'd have my own rig. but for supporting graphics designers etc, mac becomes nice and easy
Sleepy_Coder: Apple is exploiting hardware lock'ins with the iPad and iPhone and such, with their little proprietary ports, MS is exploiting software lock-ins with things like DirectX.
Sleepy_Coder: Have you seen the cords they sell for the iPad? :< Under 1ft and cost at least $30 :<
christian_lappy: apple pricing is sick
Sleepy_Coder: But then again, the iPad sucks dick so no one would ever get one :p
Sleepy_Coder: hides
Sleepy_Coder: Actually, my uncle got one :(
christian_lappy: many people will get one
rsk: well i'm very envious of apple
Sleepy_Coder: It was hard keeping a straight face when he brought it over to excite me
rsk: if i could sell some shit
Sleepy_Coder: But he's a rich bastard, so meh.
rsk: for way more than it's worth
rsk: i would do it anytime
Sleepy_Coder: He probably bought it with his pocket change.
DonScott: iPad is a giant iPhone without the the phone...
mastertheknife: Yeah its hard to believe how people pay those prices.. iPod and iPhone i can understand, those are very good products, but pay $2000 difference for a PC that runs OS X?
Sleepy_Coder: The only thing I've seen lately for the iPad that really screams innovation was the little app to control your Cable box and share channels with friends
mastertheknife: I wouldn't buy an iPad, its full of DRM
Sleepy_Coder: actually likes Creative mp3 players. even though they play ogg, flac, wav... more than an mp3 player. Don't use any proprietary ports, easy to replace the battery, mounts like another hard drive... <3
Sleepy_Coder: Don't need any dumb software to load songs.
christian_lappy: Sleepy_Coder: http://www.doobybrain.com/2010/01/27/ipad-vs-stone-tablet/
mastertheknife: And its Apple's DRM, which is the worst you can imagine. I have an iPhone, its very advanced and all, but i can't send or receive files through Bluetooth
Sleepy_Coder: hahaha
jvizzle: DonScott: I had to watch that video again
DonScott: lol jwizzle
Sleepy_Coder: Also, the widescreen argument is silly :p
jvizzle: my sister wants to buy a mac for graphical shit
Sleepy_Coder: You could do some excessive cropping to get it to 16:9
jvizzle: IPAD < www.notionink.com
Sleepy_Coder: I don't get it.
giselher: STEAM FOR LINUX CONFIRMED: http://www.worldbuzznow.com/after-steam-for-mac-steam-for-linux-in-the-works/9245
Sleepy_Coder: funkeh
Sleepy_Coder: gd, stop that :p
Sleepy_Coder: It'll never be confirmed.
Sleepy_Coder: Ever.
Sleepy_Coder: We shall be playing Portal and still waiting for a confirmation.
christian_lappy: Sleepy_Coder: http://techcrunch.com/2010/01/30/ipad-v-a-rock/
christian_lappy: Sleepy_Coder: that one is better
Sleepy_Coder: Oh seen tha tone :D
Sleepy_Coder: that*
Sleepy_Coder: "This news is almost official as various big-time news outlets have already reported about this. We are all just waiting for Valve to make a statement about this."
Sleepy_Coder: F U MEDIA
rsk: * Home
rsk: * Science
rsk: o Weather
rsk: o Space & Astronomy
rsk: o Natural Disasters
Sleepy_Coder: 0.o
mastertheknife: lol
jvizzle: hahah
rsk: fuck that's a bad website
rsk: it pastes invisible shit
jvizzle: lol
rsk: when i just pasted the text
mastertheknife: giselher: is that real ?
rsk: it sounds just like they are a part of the ripple effect
rsk: dosen't seem to be any source
mastertheknife: ah yeah
mastertheknife: just read it now
mastertheknife: Valve better do it next week
mastertheknife: all this hype is killing me
manaphuun: yeah, and valve better launch it with some source games already ported
rsk: some? f that
rsk: all thank you
giselher: mastertheknife: found it via google news
mastertheknife: Steam for linux will also arrive with performance improvements in the directx9->opengl translator
mastertheknife: because they are slowly improving that translator file now fixing rendering bugs and performance issues, and in few months its just a matter of re-compiling it for liux
mastertheknife: for linux*
d2kx: with linux, they dont have to worry about crap opengl support (2.1/3.0, what a joke on mac)
mastertheknife: d2kx: 3.0 isn't supported yet, just 2.1 but many 3.0 extensions are
DonScott: or too many idiots like the mactard that posted his fail on youtube
mastertheknife: d2kx: Yeah apple is really lagging behind, especially when considering that nvidia already got OpenGL 4.0 support in linux (nvidia driver 197.XX and newer)
d2kx: amd also got opengl 4.0 support
giselher: how do I know which OpenGL version my card supports (Geforce Go 7400)
d2kx: interesting question giselher, do dx9 cards support opengl 2.1 only or some 3.x?
mastertheknife: giselher: I think 2.1
mastertheknife: d2kx: usually 2.1 from what it seems. 3.X is supported by dx10 hardware and 4.0 supported by dx11 hardware
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: completely correct
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: 3.1 is for dx10 hw also
mastertheknife: DirectX10 and OpenGL 3.X are both about the same level, requiring about the same hardware
mastertheknife: yeah
mastertheknife: I heard that valve is putting pressure on apple to work on newer openGL, extensions etc
d2kx: they do and the first results are visible with mac os x 10.6.4 soon
d2kx: but valve said somewhere the opengl part is not the only problem with the mac, it has some issues elsewhere too (stuff like memory management etc.)
d2kx: also the source engine on mac is not optimized for performance yet
christian_lappy: d2kx: heya
DonScott: lol you said mac and performance in the same sentence relating to a game engine
christian_lappy: rofl
mamalujo: anyone here have experience in wine debugging? Im trying to understand its debug traces to see why discworld noir is failing..
DonScott: sorry couldn't resist
DonScott: =D
d2kx: DonScott: Mac bashing is fun, no need for apologies
rsk: yeah
rsk: bashing linux is easier
rsk: but not as fun
rsk: it hurts :(/
d2kx: i admit i have an ipod nano 1G and 5G but thats all i care about from that company
mastertheknife: iphone 3G here
mastertheknife: thats all though
rsk: my brain read that as
rsk: "macfag reporting in"
d2kx: bashing linux in a constructive way is healthy, like with the yearly "why desktop linux sucks" presentation
jvizzle: lol
mamalujo: haha
d2kx: android > ipone os
DonScott: steve jobs will release a new version of the iMac called the iGame ....it will cost $8000
rsk: :bDDDDDDDDD
jvizzle: It will have 2x2900xt's in it
DonScott: for last years hardware
rsk: does the warranty on the iGame cover it if you loose it?
DonScott: no but you get a 2 button mouse and nifty iSteam preinstalled
jvizzle: scroller?
mamalujo: d2kx, agreed. however, desktop generally sux, in gnu/linux I can at least throw it completely out of the window (no pun intended) and make a totally different ui
d2kx: oh isnt that cute, a bot found his love: another bot (phorogit) - http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?p=127647#post127647
DonScott: Steve feels that scrollers are overrated and will phase them out accordingly
jvizzle: ahh
jvizzle: so it is technology that we don't need
jvizzle: steve knows best
DonScott: lol
Sleepy_Coder: creeps me out that does.
Sleepy_Coder: @ d2kx
d2kx: michaellarabel: ban "love4u", new bot spamming quickly on phoronix forums
The_Muh: lol, steam system requirements (mac os): "Two-button mouse strongly recommended"
NigeyUK: haha
christian_lappy: rofl
jvizzle: heh
NigeyUK: "not compatible with mighty Mice"
mastertheknife: I hope Valve will not make an iSteam
NigeyUK: confirmed!
mastertheknife: and instead spend their money on a linux client
The_Muh: http://store.steampowered.com/about/ just on the right side
jvizzle: mac beat us to steam :(
mastertheknife: This is not too bad
d2kx: mac steam = beta for linux launch
mastertheknife: Valve is using the dumb mac users to locate any possible bug
Sleepy_Coder: How the hell is it not compatible with a Mighty Mouse?
mastertheknife: because they seem to dumb to use a software the way its intended
Sleepy_Coder: I thought they had 2 buttons... >.>
mamalujo: ah, so nice to see robotic romance developing :)
NigeyUK: wtf..lol
NigeyUK: android sex?
jvizzle: droid doews
jvizzle: does*
DonScott: digitallove the game oh wait thats already out...
Sleepy_Coder: droids does you doggy style.
NigeyUK: ouch
d2kx: btw is it true that vsync is on by default on mac within portal because the tearing is worse than on other platforms without it?
NigeyUK: i think its on by default
NigeyUK: dunno about the tearing though....
mastertheknife: VSync on is only good with triple buffering
mastertheknife: otherwise the fps drop from vsync is high
d2kx: i know, thats why i was asking. pretty shit to game on mac the
mastertheknife: heh
Sleepy_Coder: I wish the Myst game had been ported to Linux :(
Sleepy_Coder: Myst series*
Sleepy_Coder: I played that endlessly when I was a Mac user.
Sleepy_Coder: Back in like.. 1996 >.>
jvizzle: I wish TF2 would port
DonScott: the only reason Mac gets stuff before linux is because its marketshare is known.
d2kx: myst & riven = amazing
Sleepy_Coder: Maybe power-hungry corrupt CEOs are attractive to game porters.
mastertheknife: DonScott: At least we will get it with much less bugs, and many games already ported probably
Ivanovic: DonScott: the problem is that only a tiny fraction of mac users can actually play portal
Ivanovic: since it looks like the default onboard intel chip in their macbooks is too slow...
d2kx: the chip is good enough if you use windows i guess, but the opengl support on intel chips on mac is a complete joke i hearr
mastertheknife: Linux client will be more successful than the mac one for many reasons including the cost, better drivers(+performance), and freedom to use any gfx card..
christian_lappy: so, same for tf2,l4d,jl2
rsk: hehe
mastertheknife: d2kx: Yeah, intel only supports OpenGL 1.2
jvizzle: you can play tf2 on a shit computer....
christian_lappy: d2kx: samo for linux
rsk: intel has a high percentage of cards on the market
rsk: their drivers is utter shit. like really
rsk: that isn't to good so it evens up
Sleepy_Coder: >.>
Wipster: sounds about right
mastertheknife: Actually their drivers are very stable, unlike ATI, but just don't have proper support for modern APIs
Sleepy_Coder: what is jl2?
rsk: intel linux drivers are insanely slow
rsk: but stable ye
rsk: but dosent matter so much
Sleepy_Coder: christian_lappy: jl2?
d2kx: AMD's drivers, both open and closed are pretty stable nowadays mastertheknife
christian_lappy: hl2
Sleepy_Coder: oic
jvizzle: ATI?
mastertheknife: d2kx: Not the case with wine it seems
Sleepy_Coder: is only looking forward to portal, l4d2, and tf2 on Linux, the rest are extraneous pleasantries.
d2kx: mastertheknife not AMD's fault for the most part, unfortunately
d2kx: Sleepy_Coder css is important too and valve is freshening it up for other platform releases right now
mastertheknife: Valve is moving all their Source games to the newest Source engine
christian_lappy: makes sense
mastertheknife: Not because its newer and has some better graphics i heard, but because its the only version of the Source engine they ported to the Mac
mastertheknife: CS:S on the new engine is done, its now in beta
mastertheknife: Not just*
mastertheknife: lol
d2kx: i still think "clueless247" is a better name than wait4steam
The_Muh: they should
The_Muh: ups oO
d2kx: yeah they really should
The_Muh: release
The_Muh: (so... a complete sentence... xD)
d2kx: they really should ups release
The_Muh: -.-
d2kx: ;)
The_Muh: forget the "ups"
The_Muh: scheka: stop laughing
scheka: they should oO release
The_Muh: -.-
The_Muh: brb
d2kx: damn since we got lactose-free milk chocolate here in germany (since 2 months), consumption really got a bit out of control :X
DonScott: don't be so intolerant towards lactose.
d2kx: xD
Nevtus: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23842 worst spam bot ever
Nevtus: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=128589&postcount=2
d2kx: a bot-loving bot, is it a sin?
mamalujo: homononsexuality?
The_Muh: i imagine two portal-sentry having sex
The_Muh: ...
scheka: with theyre little guns?
d2kx: guys...
The_Muh: scheka: yup
DonScott: wow.....just wow..... portal turret porn
d2kx: this is what you get if you dont have steam news to talk about
mastertheknife: lol
The_Muh: i like the portal-sentrys
mastertheknife: michaellarabel: a bot is spamming the forums
Deanjo: Hey michaellarabel you know the forums are getting bombed by spam?
DonScott: the bot is looking for love in all the wrong places.....
The_Muh: and why they dont be allowed to have sex with their colleagues
The_Muh: *=
Deanjo: and who says linux nerds never attract the ladies :P
The_Muh: -.- *?
DonScott: HAHAHAHA
Nevtus: VIRTUAL ladies
DonScott: ROFL
The_Muh: ask scheka, he should know it
d2kx: i dont know whats worse... the bot on the forums or #phoronix talking about sex between portal turrets
mastertheknife: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23734
scheka: The_Muh: what should i know?
mastertheknife: rofl
mastertheknife: Deanjo: hilarious picture
The_Muh: scheka: dunno...
Deanjo: Ya it cracked me up when it happened mastertheknife
micr0spell: Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIO® VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBook® Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/
mastertheknife: argh
mastertheknife: what the heck
mastertheknife: mac users declared a war on phoronix or something?
rsk: you assume they are capable of such a thing?
rsk: giggle
d2kx: what you mean mastertheknife
Shunt31: don't want to a bit offtopic here, but how do you know that linuxfont.cpp exists?
Sleepy_Coder: :\
d2kx: Shunt31: on valves computers, yes
Shunt31: hmm
Sleepy_Coder: wonders what TF2's famous font is
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: please do remove those posts from "love4u"
Sleepy_Coder: And if Valve will open it up.
Ivanovic: makes reading the forums barely possible
Shunt31: They way the errors are, it seems like its actually a file in one of the folders
skyhirider: anything new on the fabled linux steam?
rsk: there's no steam for linux yet that works
rsk: or games
rsk: :(
rsk: that's whats up
skyhirider: but Portal is 100% opengl now, right?
giselher: only for MAC OS X, in windows it still uses dx9
scheka: made a picture with two portal sentrys: http://h.imagehost.org/0085/portalcombat.png
scheka: :D
DonScott: ewwww
DonScott: looks like prison rape
The_Muh: lol
Kano: michaellarabel: it seems a new bot found the board
Deanjo: Not a bot Kano. She just "want to love you long time".
Kano: haha
skyhirider: epic pic :D
d2kx: scheka, let us talk about your problems
scheka: youre first :D
Deanjo: dammit d2kx stop playing around with emac's psychotherapist
The_Muh: emacs? nice OS, but i miss a good texteditor
skyhirider: what on earth made you think of sentryrape? even worse, what made you draw that hilarious pic? :D
d2kx: emacs = linux app = mac in name = STEAM CONFIRMED
The_Muh: lol
The_Muh: steam for emacs - confirmed
skyhirider: do not say the m word near me, I will probably have nightmares about single button mice thanks to you
scheka: two portal sentrys (windows portal + mac portal) doing it and make a 3rd portal sentry (linux)
The_Muh: lmao
DonScott: a 3 way
Sleepy_Coder: make linux the main evil guy :p
skyhirider: heh, the baby would be a portal sg lvl 3 tank
Sleepy_Coder: Because Linux is so badass.
skyhirider: yeah, but its only a bird still, a badass bird
The_Muh: should i install arch on that hdd or not? hmm....
skyhirider: yes!!!
Kano: The_Muh: only kanotix ;)
skyhirider: and then tell me how to do it:D
d2kx: arch is not hard to install
The_Muh: skyhirider: open cd-drive, put the cd into it, reboot, load some packages, finished
ChemBro: Arch Linux \(^_^)/
d2kx: but you have to question yourself if the configuration stuff etc is worth it
The_Muh: putting the CD into the drive is the hardest
skyhirider: a cd drive? they still make those?
The_Muh: is that incorrect?
Kano: i would install from usb stick
skyhirider: or a network install
The_Muh: you can also install from an existing linux
Deanjo: Man cd is the old way of installing linux. Nowdays you just place the harddrive on the printed out hardcopy of the kernel
skyhirider: takes longer but at least you wont have to bother with updating packages
Deanjo: Installation via osmosis
The_Muh: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Install_From_Existing_Linux
skyhirider: I wonder, is a self built default Arch faster than Ubuntu with all the crap apps removed?
The_Muh: self built? Oo`
The_Muh: ?
skyhirider: Sorry, meant it that you have to manually set stuff up, my bad
ChemBro: not really
The_Muh: dunno... dont have tested ubuntu since 6.xx
skyhirider: If I compare, Arch has every possible package in the repo and all works, if not you can fix it, but Ubuntu has a smaller steady package list that can be further optimized, but they also add unopimized crap apps
The_Muh: skyhirider: you forgot the AUR
The_Muh: and ABS
giselher: ABS FTW!
The_Muh: antiblockiersystem =)
giselher: lmao
skyhirider: heck, if arch has airbags too il take two!
The_Muh: no... but we have pacman
manaphuun: whats the use of ABS? i've been using arch for half a year now and dont even know what it is *blush*
d2kx: please dont talk about drug abuse in here, The_Muh
manaphuun: lol
giselher: Arch Build Service
giselher: downloads core/extra PKGBUILD's you can change them to your need and then run makepkg
giselher: like enabling pulseaudio support in gnome-media via ABS
manaphuun: so you can compile your pks's from source, like gentoo?
The_Muh: manaphuun: yup
rsk: firefox plugin ? http://i.imgur.com/HrbuL.jpg
The_Muh: lol
kloplop321: wat
The_Muh: plug in, have fun
giselher: manaphuun: with makeworld you can build an entire repo or a sequence of packaes
RambJoe: lol i saw that on a forum earlier
mastertheknife: Gotta love the logitech g500's free wheel mode, useful when reading those long whine threads of mac users
Nevtus: to be honest I think linux users would have been better candidates to test Steam/Source on OpenGL and non-windows platforms before mac people. We understand beta/alpha level software, usually know how to provide feedback and there are probably more gamers in the userbase
kurros: you're delusional
Nevtus: probably
Nevtus: what point doesn't stand?
mastertheknife: Nevtus: you make a point
mastertheknife: Nevtus: But we will get it with many bugs already fixed probably
bkero: Linux probably doesn't provide a standard enough installation base for steam to beta test.
The_Muh: want some chunk
bkero: With OS X you're targeting a very limited set of targets
kurros: there are probably more people playing just world of warcraft on their macs than there are 3d gaming capable linux desktops in total.
mastertheknife: hey how does l4d run with -dxlevel80 ?
Nevtus: mastertheknife: I'm sure we'll find more unfixed bugs when it comes
Nevtus: kurros: I didn't mean with linux. Loads of people dual boot windows and wish to get rid of it
mastertheknife: Such as me
mastertheknife: I can't be bothered to reboot everytime i want to play a game
kurros: sure but we are ticks compared to the mac install base
mastertheknife: so i barely play them nowdays
mastertheknife: kurros: mac install base is around 5-6%, with over half of it can't run steam because the hardware is unsupported (steam on mac requires geforce 8 or newer)
mastertheknife: while on linux it will work with geforce 6 and newer
Nevtus: there is probably a few hardcore ppc mac people around still too
rsk: kevin mitnick uses osx
cmdrk: i just installed OS 8.6 on my Mac 8600/300 ;)
mastertheknife: Nevtus: I bet Steam for Linux will make move players than for Mac
rsk: and so does linus torvalds
rsk: so there's a few
kurros: sure, and its still more users than they would get on linux
mastertheknife: Mac isn't a good gaming platform as Windows or Linux is
mastertheknife: err.. i typed it all wrong
kurros: you are talking about people that have already bought the games and are dual booting. they want new purchases
cmdrk: OS X has a lot of overhead
Nevtus: I think the userbase isn't right. The OS is probably fine for games in the right hands
mastertheknife: Nevtus: I bet Steam for Linux will have more players than Steam for Mac
kurros: especially since many run acceptably under wine already. their priorities are obvious
NigeyUK: mastertheknife
NigeyUK: http://www.steamonlinux.com/
NigeyUK: pmsl
Nevtus: kurros: I think there are a lot of "lost" gamers that no longer bother with games due to having to reboot
rsk: haahahaha
Nevtus: or have moved to consoles
Nevtus: which Valve doesn't want
The_Muh: NigeyUK: hey! whats about my quote?
mastertheknife: You forget that: 1) Linux is free, Mac is expensive, 2) Linux video drivers are much better and support more nvidia\amd cards.
mastertheknife: Linux is just a better gaming platform than Mac at the end of the day. Mainly for the reasons i just wrote
NigeyUK: The_Muh, im gonna do a proper page tomorrow, including your quote :)
The_Muh: ah. k
kurros: i know all the philosphical arugments. but that doesnt change the fact that macs are a much much larger revenue source to sell games than Linux would be.
GNU\colossus: that's what most people would probably assume
Nevtus: no ones ever really tried to target linux properly
GNU\colossus: but why not put the assumption to the test?
Modplan: when did anyone bring up philosophical arguments
Kvisle: well, what's the demographics of mac users vs. linux users? who are/would be gamers?
Nevtus: also retail shops wouldn't stock the discs, with Steam that problem doesn't exist
Kvisle: are there any numbers on this?
kurros: Wildcard? Loki?
Modplan: http://somethingmild.blogspot.com/2010/04/linux-users-do-buy-things-after-all.html
mastertheknife: kurros: Steam for linux is a step in the right direction to help Linux grow.
Modplan: yes, there are numbers
Modplan: very clear numbers
kurros: i agree with that. but how does that mean that Linux should have been before Steam for Mac?
Modplan: ???
htpc: #phoronix, all steam, all day, every day
Modplan: I'm not sure what you're saying
The_Muh: oO a girl who says that tschunk isnt the nerdiest drink
mastertheknife: kurros: it doesn't matter, and maybe its better than they released mac first, because we will get it with less bugs. I have no problems waiting 2-3 months until the client is ready, but Valve should announce it already!
kurros: Modplan: Nevtus asserted that there were probably gamers on Linux than their were on macs, so Linux should have been first.
kurros: and I think thats crazy
kurros: er probably more gamers on Linux that is
Kvisle: from my experience, yeah, more gamers on linux, clearly
Kvisle: but from my experience, there are also more linux users than mac users as well --- and that's not true on a global scale
Kvisle: proper demographics would help clear that up
Modplan: then see this: http://somethingmild.blogspot.com/2010/04/linux-users-do-buy-things-after-all.html
Modplan: very clear data
d2kx: htpc: youre wrong, there was a discussion about sex between weapons an hour ago
mastertheknife: Linux is pure freedom.. OS X and Macs in general can only grow at a speed set by Apple. Linux is a totally free platform that grows at the rate of contributions\open source (patches, new features, etc)
dusty_fox: d2kx: interesting. Like showing a rocket into a rocket launcher?
dusty_fox: *shoving
The_Muh: dusty_fox: nope. two portal-turrets having sex
kurros: dude its #phoronix. we are all on the same page there. it doesnt change the fact that right now Steam for Mac represents more potential $ than Linux does. Not saying there is no money but for anyone to think we should have been first is delusional.
The_Muh: http://h.imagehost.org/0085/portalcombat.png
dusty_fox: The_Muh: LOL
kurros: The_Muh, that is...
dusty_fox: kurros: arousing?
kurros: lol
The_Muh: from scheka
Rednaxela: kurros: Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised that Valve first had plans for Mac and then someone there thought like "Oh... if we're porting to webkit, opengl, etc for Mac then.... we might as well..."
mastertheknife: You're making it sound like Mac has 20% market share
mastertheknife: Mac's market share is ~5%, while Linux's is around ~1.6%
kurros: it has more than Source engine capable Linux desktops
mastertheknife: Out of those 5%, only half can play steam games
d2kx: kurros: actually no i dont think that
Nevtus: for all of apples money, it's desktop market share is still quite pathetic
d2kx: kurros: most macs are intel igp based crap still
The_Muh: i dont believe that linux has only 1.6%
dusty_fox: how many windows users have steam though? think of how many people have a computer and don't play any games, let alone steam games
Modplan: there were other stats someone posted that showed Linux as near 5%
kurros: show me one mac on store.apple.com that has intel graphics
Nevtus: it doesn't. Linux by nature is hard to count
kurros: they've been in the only OpenCL-capable graphics camp for a while now
dusty_fox: kurros: no current macs use igp, but a lot of the recent generation ones did
The_Muh: Nevtus: true. and the thousands of linux-users who use windows for gaming...
dusty_fox: The_Muh: I'm one of those
Rednaxela: One thought, is it probably wouldn't be surprising if Valve keeps track of how many installs of Steam are done under Wine, and such
The_Muh: dito... rarely boot my windows, but sometimes...
Nevtus: Rednaxela: they can, and likely are, through the driver names reported
Nevtus: but that still doesn't represent the people that boot back into windows for games
mastertheknife: I'm so tired of writing this: Regardless of the current market share, steam for linux have more potentional than steam for mac, especially in a year or two
Rednaxela: Nevtus: Driver names reported is probably a likely way they are yeah.
kurros: so if "most" people already bought the games and just dont want to dual boot... how is that a huge $ win for Valve.
dusty_fox: good pr?
Modplan: it makes it more likelythat people will buy further games from them
Modplan: WINE is not a perfect solution, many people won't buy to get a crappy experience
mastertheknife: *potential
mastertheknife: my bad
The_Muh: dusty_fox: good pr? perfect pr
dusty_fox: yeah
Nevtus: and people drop gaming because dual booting is a tiring experience
Rednaxela: I for one would like to state the following: I haven't bought a steam game before (though I once tried an AudioSurf demo in Wine), but I might if it goes native
mastertheknife: Nevtus: Exactly! I don't play many games now because i cant be bothered to dual boot
kurros: judging by the OpenGL bugs on OS X that are going to require an OS update to fix some of the games its not so hot an experience there, either
Nevtus: mastertheknife: and worst for Valve, they often move to consoles
mastertheknife: If it goes native, i will definitely buy some more games
dusty_fox: How many reboot-to-windows linux users do you think there are compared to I-only-use-linux-and-thus-have-to-use-wine users?
mastertheknife: I use wine aswell, but L4D for example is painfully slow through wine
mastertheknife: so i dont play it all nowdays
Rednaxela: dusty_fox, I'd guess, a similar order of magnitude for each group.
dusty_fox: Valve wouldn't get any extra money from me for linux support, at least not at the moment, because I already have all of their games
dusty_fox: but i would like native ones
mastertheknife: kurros: Why? Linux's OpenGL is much straightforward than OSX's lagging openGL (only 2.1 supported)
RambJoe: has anyone contacted the telegraph to ask about their source?
Modplan: yes
d2kx: RambJoe
Modplan: they claimed valve were teir source
dusty_fox: what they say?
dusty_fox: ORLY
mastertheknife: kurros: err sorry i misread
dusty_fox: any proof?
d2kx: they say they did actually get the information from valve
Modplan: someone here contacted them
Nevtus: only pastebins
RambJoe: oh nice :D
mastertheknife: kurros: thought you said its not an hot experience "here" either
dusty_fox: pics or it didn't happen
Modplan: christian_lappy i think it was
Modplan: ask him
dusty_fox: that would be great if it was true, I'm just really skeptical :p
Rednaxela: I'd guess a 50% chance the telegraph is BSing
Rednaxela: Though maybe I'm cynical
kurros: i'm sure there are also lots of non obvious bugs in our implementations that making Source games native would reveal. and the way most distributions work they wont get fixes out as quickly as Apple could, either.
Nevtus: why would they do that?
d2kx: if valve was going to talk about in on steampowered.com people would expect to hear lots and lots of stuff and read about the details instantly but valve wants people to focus on mac now and take the time to develop the linux client
mastertheknife: christian_lappy did, and he uploaded the email to pastebin
dusty_fox: anyone have the link to it?
Nevtus: kurros: buys where?
RambJoe: i still don't get why valve tell one news paper :S
dusty_fox: yeah.
Nevtus: *bugs
kurros: look at all the bugs in winehq that are due to rendering bugs in the fglrx or nvidia drivers
RambJoe: and one from another country
Nevtus: that's wine
dusty_fox: well, maybe other people know but are under NDA
Modplan: kurros it's exactly the same on windows
Modplan: i you find a bug, it's practice that you contact the vendor
Modplan: if*
kurros: right. you think Ubuntu is going to be rolling out monthly graphics driver updates once we get steam? no way
kurros: or mesa or gallum or whatever is involved
Modplan: right, and you think our drivers are seriously THAT buggy?
Rednaxela: I'm guessing that the Telegraph either, 1) Heard a leak from a Valve employee, 2) They got pranked by spoofers pretending to be Valve, or 3) They're BSing
Modplan: consdiering we have various games that already have to go through opengl
RambJoe: how do i get opengl4 btw? in CCC it says i have 3.2 :( ati 4870
Nevtus: the closed ones are stable and the open source ones are constatly improving
Nevtus: Rednaxela: they've already recieved emails about it, they'd pull it if they weren't sure
dusty_fox: kurros: you can always download the drivers straight from nvidia. that's what I do for debian stable
d2kx: RambJoe: you will get OpenGL 3.3 within the next two weeks, but not OpenGL4, that requires DX11 cards
dusty_fox: debian stable's version is really old, and really awful
RambJoe: oh
kurros: Rednaxela, i just assumed they picked up on the Phoronix chatter
Nevtus: btw OpenGL is used heavily on Linux in workstation usage.
RambJoe: ah well i'll get a new card soon hopefully :)
Rednaxela: Nevtus: Perhaps I'm too cynical, but I don't feel prepared to rule out that maybe somebody spoofing a "From" field in an email tricked them. I'm not cynical about Steam for linux eventually, but the report by the Telegraph seems sketchy to me
dusty_fox: :p
d2kx: the telegrapher is not the only site contacted by valve, but i dont want to go into that
RambJoe: what opengl is valve likely to use?
mastertheknife: If valve won't release a linux client in the next 4-5 months, i'll be really disappointed (especially because of the hype and the unfinished client)
kurros: 1.2
NigeyUK: give us the source we'll finish it ;)
d2kx: they will give us source but not source's source
kurros: its all about the packed pixels
dusty_fox: heh ;) full source for steam + source engine + TF2 + L4D...god that would be awesome :)
NigeyUK: haha yush!
onemanX: whats the topic change about
RambJoe: will they port cs 1.6 that has opengl anyway
dusty_fox: onemanX: STEAM FOR LINUX CONFIRMED --> STEAM FOR LINUX NOT CONFIRMED
d2kx: RambJoe at a later date
dusty_fox: aw man :p
NigeyUK: lol
onemanX: says who
RambJoe: :)
onemanX: good lord
onemanX: demented
NigeyUK: says tux !
Modplan: gabe whilst wearing his penguin suit
dusty_fox: lol
rsk: :p
dusty_fox: i saw steamonlinux.com earlier today :p
sado1: ...
cmdrk: someone needs to set +t ;)
rsk: :)
mastertheknife: sigh... abuse
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: yeah +t is needed
d2kx: duke nukem forever is coming to GNU/Hurd, not linu
mastertheknife: but there are no ops on this channel
dusty_fox: lol
dusty_fox: it can be GNU/DNF
Rednaxela: Could call for all 148 people to leave, such that someone could get op... ahahaha
mastertheknife: rofl
Modplan: GNUKE nukem
dusty_fox: lol
mastertheknife: Actually, the channel is registered
rsk: how about "windows switches to GPLV3 license on all microsoft software?"
mastertheknife: ./msg nickserv info #phoronix
cmdrk: isnt it chanserv?
mastertheknife: yeah chanserv my bad
sado1: let's confirm windows media player for linux
NigeyUK: pmsl
d2kx: internet explorer 6 native port for linux would be ubercool
dusty_fox: yes
cmdrk: im using IE 4 on this mac. it's awesome
Nevtus: no +t is so exploitable
cmdrk: now i need an IRC client for OS 8.6
rsk: wasn't there ie for UNIX?
rsk: back in the days
sado1: there was ie for mac
The_Muh: d2kx: *über
kurros: there was a Windows Media Player for Solaris
kurros: dunno about IE
dusty_fox: kurros: really? holy crap
kurros: yup
Nevtus: why?
kurros: i dunno, they stopped it around the 6.2/6.3 timeframe. it never got updated once the went to 7 on Windows (same as the Mac OS version)
kurros: yeah there was a Solaris IE 5 and Outlook Express, too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_UNIX
The_Muh: who needs windows media player?
The_Muh: mpd & mplayer
dusty_fox: yeah
dusty_fox: sonata (mpd) and smplayer for me
kurros: situation was a bit different in 1999. i think it was more of a corporate desktop synergy thing
DonScott: all I need is steam for linux and all will be well.
dusty_fox: then our lives will be complete.
Kvisle: there were IE for "UNIX"
Kvisle: solaris / HP-UX
Kvisle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Unix
The_Muh: lol
dusty_fox: you know somebody will do it eventually lol
dusty_fox: if it hasn't been done already
Kvisle: linux for iphone has been done
Rednaxela: Someone has dusty_fox
scheka: ping.exe for windows ? confirmed! :D
Kano: i used ie on solaris
Rednaxela: dusty_fox: Android for iPhone has been done, and Android is linux based
Kano: well netscape was more popular those times
Kvisle: they've also done android for iphone --- with functioning gsm stack
dusty_fox: Kvisle: ooo cool
Kvisle: quite beta, but definitly a good proof of concept
bkero: is porting android right now :)
Rednaxela: From what I heard, it dual boots Android and iPhone OS even
Kvisle: dusty_fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yO2KQHkt4A
dusty_fox: wow over a year ago, linux kernel
kurros: kind of useless without any hardware buttons
dusty_fox: i haven't been paying attention :p
bkero: The iPhone does have hardware buttons
bkero: 5 of them ;)
kurros: you know what I mean :P
Azerthoth|D: 2 are volume
dusty_fox: rsk: lol
kurros: hit the home button 6 times for the menu button? :)
bkero: They're all controlled by software though
Rednaxela: Enough buttons for morse code, should be enough for anyone!
Azerthoth|D: 2g iphone is complete for android, 3g iphone is still missing audio driver
kurros: i'm curious how many iPhones are going to be making their way back to the apple store once 4.0 rolls out
Rednaxela: A propose that Apple ditch the keyboard, and remove everything but the one button from their mouse! :P
mastertheknife: heh.
kurros: AppleCare is going to get a huge boost
Azerthoth|D: baseband (texting/data) works though
mastertheknife: ugh, police.
dusty_fox: how many rich and/or die-hard iPhone users are there? that many
gitano: neither rich, nor die-hard, but i
gitano: fone-user, yes
gitano: :p
krull: l
The_Muh: anyone here who kills the goddamn buttflys for me? damn rain =/
The_Muh: damn weather
gitano: The_Muh: buttflys? oO
The_Muh: *butterflys
The_Muh: okay guys... who has stolen my letters?!
gitano: hides
The_Muh: Quantum Weather Butterflies
The_Muh: making storms and bad weather
The_Muh: kill'em !
gitano: would gladly exchange buuterfys for this bloody cold may
gitano: :P buuterfys, sounds like danish breakfast
gitano: and wth is up with rvalles
The_Muh: gitano: his connection between mars and earth is broken
gitano: The_Muh: seems so
rvalles: I don't know.
gitano: how was that again? "Madonna belongs on fuckin' mars, man!"
gitano: there he is :)
rsk: dont say that
gitano: ya :/
mastertheknife: Its amazing how the steam for mac video went from 16,000 views to 64,269 views in half a day
gitano: mastertheknife: whoch one?
mastertheknife: gitano: this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY
The_Muh: slaps gitano - whoch -
gitano: ah, that one
gitano: only saw the redub version, heh
gitano: well, if u look at the number of complaints in steamforums, he has a point somehow :p
mastertheknife: He doesn't have a point, that video was made on May 12th, the FIRST day of mac for linux
mastertheknife: bugs are expected
mastertheknife: including frequent updates, because its the first day
mastertheknife: *the first day of steam for mac
mastertheknife: my bad.. lol
gitano: well, anticipation, then :p
mastertheknife: but its an hilarious video though :P
The_Muh: he failed
gitano: so, do lots of others, heh
gitano: srsly, but finally after years steam for mac is out and what do ppl do: complain, complain, complain
The_Muh: i think the guy in the video is gay...
gitano: they should've released it to linux first, would've been a better start, heh
mastertheknife: Yeah, complaining is useless, should contact devs instead with bug reports and such
RambJoe: also notice how he said mw2 map pack came out 2 days after bc2
mastertheknife: The_Muh: thats possible, his voice a little gay
RambJoe: when its 2 months 2 days
rvalles: solved it
mastertheknife: is a*
The_Muh: mastertheknife: look at his eys when he talks
rvalles: I did turn my old pc on and stuff
rvalles: old as in 2000 old
rvalles: seems that it had static ip config, which collided with my current home server
rvalles: now it's dhcp and assigned elsewhere.
The_Muh: imo mac isnt for gaming
gitano: The_Muh: not yet, aye
gitano: probably apple wil see the signs, probably not
mastertheknife: argh, typed /quit instead of /part accidently
The_Muh: poor mac-users
gitano: doh, we arent supposed to bpoopoor" :P
gitano: XD
gitano: *be poor
mastertheknife: the bot is still spamming the forums it seems
The_Muh: gitano: mac users buy damn expensive hardware - after this they must be poor
The_Muh: my PC + OS + software: <300€
gitano: The_Muh: same here ;)
RambJoe: i swear this justins trolling
RambJoe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2w71L1vZwc&feature=channel
gitano: bleh youtube
RambJoe: how do people do that orange fail on youtube
RambJoe: http://i.imgur.com/Elilr.png
The_Muh: maybe is a bug... (a fail off youtube)
The_Muh: *of
The_Muh: damn typos...
RambJoe: oh, i need to know how this is done, think its something to do with the #
RambJoe: oh you do it in caps
gitano: http://www.resistanceandliberation.com/News/p2_articleid/56
gitano: oO
RambJoe: nice
mastertheknife: heh
mastertheknife: I want to double my ram to 4GB, what is better, to get ddr3 ram or get same type of ddr2 i already have
Kano: you have got s775?
mastertheknife: Yeah, my mobo can take both ddr2 and ddr4
mastertheknife: ddr3*
mastertheknife: it has 4 ddr2 slots and 2 ddr3 slots
mastertheknife: After upgrading this 64bit gentoo to KDE 4, 2GB just doesn't really cut it anymore
Kano: well you can reuse ddr3 with newer boards
cmdrk: would you be going from 2 ddr2 slots to 4 ddr slots?
Kano: but you can not combine ddr2 with ddr3
cmdrk: (in terms of usage)
mastertheknife: I currently have 2 x 1GB
cmdrk: i'd just get 2x2GB of DDR3. DDR2 is kind of pricey :(
cmdrk: I remember last summer it was dirt cheap, then manufacturers moved to DDR3 and it got expensive again
mastertheknife: Like with DDR400
cmdrk: yes
mastertheknife: DDR is more expensive than DDR2 and DDR3 now
mastertheknife: because its not mass produced anymore
cmdrk: i recycled my DDR2 into a MythTV box :)
mastertheknife: well.. It just seems difficult to find the corsair 2X1GB i already have
mastertheknife: and its expensive
cmdrk: yeah
cmdrk: I was debating on whether or not I should buy more 2x1GB corsair dominators or if i should just buy 2x2GB sticks of OCZ or whatever
mastertheknife: Kingston DDR2-800 2GB and Kingston DDR3-1333 are same price here, but whats faster? I guess the 800
cmdrk: 1333
cmdrk: well
cmdrk: misread, sorry
Kano: mastertheknife: go for ddr3-1600
cmdrk: thought you said DDR2-1333
mastertheknife: cmdrk: the 1333 has more bandwidth, but it runs at 333 MHz, while the DDR2-800 runs at 400 MHz
mastertheknife: kind of
Kano: thats basically the same price
cmdrk: aren't timings tighter on DDR2 as well?
mastertheknife: cmdrk: the result is higher latency, DDR-400 is same latency as DDR2-800 and that is same latency as DDR3-1600
The_Muh: yeay
cmdrk: ahh
The_Muh: *yay
The_Muh: i beat the alpha-wolf
cmdrk: i've been out of the loop with hardware for a while :/
mastertheknife: DDR-400 best timings are 2-2-2-6, DDR2-800's best timings are 4-4-4-12, DDR3-1600's best timings 8-8-8-24
mastertheknife: you get the idea
mastertheknife: I will check now how much ddr3-1600 costs
mastertheknife: wow DDR3-1600 is much more pricey than DDR3-1333
Kano: well then go for 1333
Kano: you can at least use it for i3/5/7
mastertheknife: I usually don't replace components though, just end up buying new computer every 4-5 years
Kano: well when you have got a high clocked quad s775 then you dont need to upgrade
The_Muh: i would buy i7 + 4gb ram + 2 tb hdd + ... kind of graphic-card
Kano: well but the speed diff is not more than 20%
mastertheknife: At the moment i have TWIN2X2048-6400C4 which can run at 4-4-4-12 at 2.1V
mastertheknife: from corsair
Kano: against i5-750 it would be less than 10 against my fastest quad
The_Muh: Kano: should be perform every game up to 2014
Kano: i7-980X ok...
Kano: thats a good upgrade ;)
kurros: BUY NOW
Kano: i can wait
Kano: will get an i3/i5 dual most likely next month to try h264 intel vaapi
kurros: when are the non extreme 6-cores supposed to roll out
jvizzle: they rolled out on AMD
Kano: x6 is not that impressive
kurros: hmm Q3 2010
Kano: http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=kano-20557-476-28375
gitano: in a way its funny how one has to explain mac users their own system :p http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1270421
Kano: my X3380 beats it serveral times
Kano: especially with multimedia encoding it is not worth that upgrade
gitano: thinks, in another 'tis sad, heh
Kano: x6 is not bad, but no upgrade from my quad
jvizzle: I never bought intel before....
Kano: most likely you can oc every intel quad to be faster than the x6 at stock speed
kurros: i just want to have 12 lines in gnome system monitor
kurros: with a 6C/12T cpu
kurros: gnome-system-monitor should be using about 40% of one CPU drawing all those cairo lines :D
jvizzle: Kano: $207 for x6 right now that im looken at
Kano: the low speed x6 is a joke anyway
jvizzle: 3dmark?
The_Muh: "hi-lo" - leonard is awesome...
The_Muh: big bang theory rocks
Kano: jvizzle: its slower than the higher clocked amd quad
Kano: in most benchmarks
jvizzle: I have the 965 right now
mikeplus64: I just thought that this ( http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux ) was interesting.
Kano: no need to upgrade
jvizzle: i have two computers
jvizzle: and my mobo fried on the one
Gnurdux: how come michaellarabel just vanished from this channel right after the "official" steam thing? :(
mastertheknife: he didn't vanish
mastertheknife: he's probably busy
mastertheknife: but he needs to wake up... a bot is spamming the forums
kurros: you're part of the coverup
mikeplus64: Conspiracy!
mikeplus64: ;)
kurros: Valve got an injunction against him so he cant say anything in public until Valve announces Steam for Linux
mikeplus64: How can I be sure that you are not another part of The Conspiracy?
mikeplus64: Just kidding. :P
kurros: except for monitor reviews
kurros: i may be
mikeplus64: The thick plottens...
DonScott: the penguin is a lie
kurros: OMG GUYS
kurros: i have a cherry popsicle
jumbers: Valve still hasn't made an announcement, right?
Nevtus: nope
mikeplus64: Confirmed!
jumbers: It bugs me that all these sites cite each other saying it's confirmed
DonScott: yeah...
jumbers: When nobody has any proof
Nevtus: journalism is dead
jumbers: If you have inside info, either post the proof or keep it to yourself. Saying "it's confirmed" with no source is just stupid and apparently builds hype
jumbers: Half the sites are saying "Valve confirmed it" but of course just cite The Telegraph which had no source
DonScott: yeah
DonScott: kinda sucks
mastertheknife: Well
mastertheknife: someone emailed telegraph and asked them
jumbers: And The Telegraph probably got that idea from Phoronix
mastertheknife: they said they got it from valve
jumbers: Why would a UK newspaper get the scoop on something like that?
Nevtus: doesn't make any sense
jumbers: Valve is an American company
Nevtus: but why would they make it up
Kvisle: because they read phoronix.com
jumbers: I don't know, this whole "announcement" seems fishy
Nevtus: I could understand a gaming site/blog doing it but a british newspaper?
DonScott: ratings ? ads ? lots of reason to make shit up
jumbers: Unless I see a link to a Valve press release, I'm taking all of these news sites with a grain of salt
Nevtus: it just seems weird, made up or official
jumbers: Sure, like Kotaku or something
jumbers: That would make sense
Nevtus: I could easily believe Kotaku pulling a stunt like that
jumbers: I mean, I don't at all doubt that there WILL be a Steam for Linux, but it's definitely not confirmed :|
jumbers: I'm betting by the release of Portal 2, around November will be the latest release date for it
DonScott: is the Telegraph a paper with paid subscriptions ?
Nevtus: for the website? not as far as I know
RambJoe: has anyone asked gabe?
jumbers: Yeah, you pay them money and they send you a dead tree
RambJoe: i dont think he likes me, he always ignores me :(
jumbers: RambJoe: He would only deny something like that over email until there is an announcement
mikeplus64: Or just ignore it.
jumbers: Or that
DonScott: i asked him on wed. still no reply
The_Muh: i asked gabe
The_Muh: but - no answer
jumbers: "While I don't have time to respond to all my emails, I DO read them all" -gaben
RambJoe: oh, seems weird how they answer the telegraph thogh
RambJoe: do valve have like UK employes or sometihng
jumbers: I think they're all in Washington
jumbers: They probably have people outside of the US for server management and stuff
Gnurdux: mastertheknife, they really said that?
jumbers: Because I believe they have official servers all over
The_Muh: http://pastebin.com/rdWP7HrV
Gnurdux: jumbers, if you don't doubt that, why did they do the obnoxious "I do have a good reason. I have a Mac!" thing on the free portal site
RambJoe: i wonder who they asked then, may have been an accidental leak which shouldn't have been annoucned
RambJoe: or valve is messing with us again
DonScott: i wouldn't really expect much until after he 24th this month anyway
jumbers: Gnurdux: How else will they appeal to Mac snobs?
Gnurdux: jumbers, i'm saying that if you acknowledge that Linux exists, you don't say that
Gnurdux: because then you let us say "I do have a good reason, I have Linux, motherfucker!"
jumbers: The wording of Steam Play even kinda gives it away
Gnurdux: actually i should email Valve saying that
Gnurdux: how?
jumbers: "It will play on all platforms supported by Steam"
d2kx: trust us Gnurdux it is happening ;)
jumbers: All two of them? Clearly there will be more
mastertheknife: Gnurdux: Yes.
Gnurdux: i think it's likely to be happening
Gnurdux: but i think it's premature to make any claims until they make an announcement
Gnurdux: i also don't really see what they lose from announcing it now
jumbers: Mac hype
Gnurdux: i guess they get a new buzz if they do it after the mac buzz dies down?
Gnurdux: i guess
Gnurdux: they got a buzz when mac was announced
Gnurdux: again when mac was released
jumbers: Mac buzz is gonna be going on for a little while
Gnurdux: then they can get another one when linux is announced
Gnurdux: and another when linux is released
Gnurdux: all free advertising for Valve
RambJoe: what i dont like is how windows and mac is one image called steam play http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/v5/platforms/platform_steamplay.png
Gnurdux: i dunno though
jumbers: They can just update the image
Gnurdux: i also don't know if that penguin among the macs was a hidden message
RambJoe: yeah but it would get a bit confusing as not all games will be three way
Kano: funnyly they still call Win=PC ;)
The_Muh: lol... "she let me" - awesome
Gnurdux: one the one hand, a hidden message seems like Valve's sort of thing to do
Kano: on my c64 there was written: personal computer ;)
RambJoe: where's the penguin
Gnurdux: but on the other hand, that was probably just those guy's work area
jumbers: Valve uses so many hidden messages
jumbers: Look at Portal
jumbers: (The update)
RambJoe: which page
Kano: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/C64c_system.jpg
mastertheknife: It was supposed to be announced very soon
Kano: should run there too ;)
rsk: The_Muh xD big bang theory?
mastertheknife: but i hope the current bugs with mac wont delay it
Gnurdux: RambJoe, i forget
The_Muh: rsk: yup
DonScott: Valve is sneaky
Gnurdux: it had a buncha macbook pros
Gnurdux: and other macs
Gnurdux: running valve games
jumbers: Kano: Nah, Steam is a memory hof
Nevtus: RambJoe: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/mac/MacSteam_AlfredJasonGabe.jpg
jumbers: hog*
Nevtus: next to the mug
mastertheknife: There are so many problems and bugs with the amc client that it might make them re-think about a linux client :(
RambJoe: oh that
RambJoe: oh yeah lol
rsk: LOL
rsk: <3
The_Muh: rsk: let me explain why i did what i dit .... -silence- .... she let me <- i lol'd
Gnurdux: whats the green thing?
rsk: ok now i am convinced it's coming to linux.
mikeplus64: I wonder if Valve has noticed a peak in the amount of Linux users browsing their sites.
Kano: mastertheknife: just do the job, they search linux devs
rsk: tux is almighty
Nevtus: mikeplus64: they've probably noticed all the posts too...
mastertheknife: Right Kano
rsk: i like how he is holding the mouse and keyboard
The_Muh: Nevtus: you mean the "CONFIRMED!!!!oneoneoneeleven"-posts?
rsk: i mean really?
mastertheknife: wow.. assembly and ipv6
rsk: mouse on left hand and the right on the numpad
Nevtus: The_Muh: that was great
Gnurdux: for all we know they have someone on this IRC channel, or at least reading the logs lol
rsk: nah they know there's hype
rsk: no need to stalk
mastertheknife: ok you got me
RambJoe: http://pastebin.com/rdWP7HrV about that, if it wasn't coming he would have just said, he wouldn't say thanks for the suggestion as i'm sure it's not something they have never thought of
The_Muh: rsk: you are the spy!
mastertheknife: I'm valve employee checking if there is a market for a linux client
DonScott: we knew it was you all along mastertheknife
mastertheknife: just kidding...
mastertheknife: :)
DonScott: lol
rsk: notice if you have superpowers
The_Muh: this mastertheknife is a spy!
The_Muh: i mean: this medic...
rsk: mastertheknife is crossing hi's fingers
The_Muh: damn
rsk: when he said that
jumbers: RambJoe: Interesting. He completely ignored the whole first part of the email
jumbers: I work for Valve. I'm actually gaben
mikeplus64: I was about to say I was wondering why a Valve employee would disassemble their own program. xD
RambJoe: it goes backwards lol
The_Muh: jumbers: its tofu. text oben (above), fullquote unten (down)
RambJoe: the original messgae is at the bottom, then gabe's reply above that
The_Muh: my new mail - gabes message - my old mail
Gnurdux: how does Gabe Newell actually reply to e-mails?
Gnurdux: i've seen other examples of this
jumbers: Oh
Gnurdux: but he must get hundreds of thousands a day
jumbers: Steve Jobs answers emails
Gnurdux: really?
Nevtus: why would you want to talk to him though
jumbers: Gabe doesn't get hundreds of thousands of emails
Gnurdux: at least thousands
jumbers: He says he gets about 10,000 emails when a product comes out
The_Muh: Gnurdux: dont think so... many people are thinking "oh... he gets 100 e-mails / day... he dont will reply to me..."
Gnurdux: lol
RambJoe: steam for mac just came out :P
jumbers: He says he gets about 10,000 emails when a product comes out
jumbers: Whoops
Rednaxela: About how many emails he gets, I imagine this much is certain and not an exaggeration: HE GETS TOO MANY
jumbers: He reads them all though
The_Muh: hm
The_Muh: maybe
jumbers: No, he does
rsk: if i was gabe i'd have the time of my life everyday
Nevtus: how could you know that... unless
jumbers: He's said in the commentary for every game so far that he reads every email he receives
The_Muh: jumbers: he "does read" them all <- right?
rsk: smoke some weed and answear mails all day
kurros: he translates them to that alien clicking sound in that star trek: tng episode and consumes them that way
rsk: yea man it's coming for linux dude!!
jumbers: The_Muh: Right
The_Muh: jumbers: and... past of "read" is "read"
jumbers: Your point is?
The_Muh: oh... damn
Nevtus: :S
The_Muh: my failure...
jumbers: lol.
The_Muh: needs to clean his glasses
Rednaxela: XD
jumbers: Grammar correction fail
The_Muh: there was bad grammar in one of my thee beers...
The_Muh: *three
The_Muh: and ... maybe i lost some letters by smoking on the balcony
jumbers: Indeed
The_Muh: is going searchin them now =)
DonScott: typing is overrated anyway and steve jobs will soon phase that out too.
DonScott: it will be call the iThink
Nevtus: DonScott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
DonScott: omg i was kidding
DonScott: LMAO
jvizzle: Nevtus is that real?
DonScott: nah its onion
DonScott: funny as hell though
jvizzle: rofl
jvizzle: hahah
Azalyn: you've never heard of the onion?
Azalyn: here's another funny onion vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ
Azalyn: :D
DonScott: this outta be good
Nevtus: oh it is
Nevtus: this one is good too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
Nevtus: ah wrong link
Nevtus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyVh1_vWYQ
jumbers: I <3 The Onion so much
The_Muh: lol
The_Muh: goddamn fucking piece of shit xD
DonScott: lol the sony one ......its like they have touretttes
jumbers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0nnU71ggro
jumbers: Best one ever
The_Muh: any more tech news from onion?
jumbers: The backlash from that last video was insane
jumbers: You just read the comments and they're hilarious
The_Muh: "wanna keep ur kids safe, keep them out of church!"
The_Muh: yup
The_Muh: did you noticed the "scandal" in germany?
The_Muh: afair the (un)holy father gave a statement
jumbers: Nope
d2kx: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2010/02/demons-really.html
Azalyn: the sony and the one i linked are funnier.
Azalyn: this one is only relying on the controversial/shock factor to be funny.
Azalyn: the others are far more witty.
DonScott: You should have screamed "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!!!" and flicked some of your soda at them :)
DonScott: lol
d2kx: ;)
The_Muh: demons... i'm atheist - atheists aren't tasty in the eyes of demons
The_Muh: so - i'm safe
Azalyn: HE HAS A BLOG!?
Azalyn: dear lord.
The_Muh: i have one too
Azalyn: you're not linus torvalds.
The_Muh: of course... but he's a human too, right?
Azalyn: no.
Azalyn: he's an alien.
The_Muh: lol
The_Muh: for the one who understand german: http://themuh.ath.cx/
DonScott: i dont understand germans at all
Nevtus: http://gawker.com/5539717/steve-jobs-offers-world-freedom-from-porn?skyline=true&s=i
DonScott: j/k
Nevtus: why would you want such a world?
jumbers: "Today Now" is mostly for the shock factor
jumbers: Another one they had was "Gymnast Shawn Johnson Put To Sleep After Breaking Leg"
Azalyn: [21:09:53] demons... i'm atheist - atheists aren't tasty in the eyes of demons
Azalyn: according to most theists, we are probably already demons in their eyes.
The_Muh: Azalyn: just a joke =)
The_Muh: Azalyn: oh...that fact explains a lot ....
DonScott: omg steve jobs is evil.....at least Microsoft lets you have porn....
mamalujo_: we're just apostates, we're supposed to reform somewhere between now and the moment of death...
Azalyn: you can't have pornography on a mac?
Azalyn: you know, in the bible, it's always god that is killing everyone and being a total asshole.
Azalyn: the 'devil' is never mentioned as having done anything bad at all...
The_Muh: Azalyn: do you watched "the man who sued god"?
Azalyn: nope.
The_Muh: you should
The_Muh: and after this you should read "small gods" from terry Pratchett
mamalujo_: funny you mention pratchett
Azalyn: what's really amazing about the onion by the way, is that it's so old, and yet to this day people are still fooled and take it seriously.
mamalujo_: I think I'll buy discworld noir, if I can find anyone selling it that is
The_Muh: mamalujo_: discworld is awesome
jumbers: Azalyn: It's mostly people that are either ignorant or outside of the US that fall for it
jumbers: But to be honest, if you see an Onion video, it's hard to tell sometimes that it's The Onion
mamalujo_: what's the onion?
DonScott: it's a fake news network
jumbers: I've been fooled about half way into a video before I starting thinking "Wait a minute, this can't be real" and then I see the Onion logo
mamalujo_: oh
The_Muh: hey! you damaged my brain! i cant switch back to german ...
The_Muh: gn8 guys
mamalujo_: cya
DonScott: im out too
Azalyn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U4Ha9HQvMo
Azalyn: lol...
gitano_: speakin' 'bout hidden messages
gitano_: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/mac/MacSteam_AlfredJasonGabe.jpg
gitano_: who else has discovered it? :)
Sir_Brizz: discovered what?
Sir_Brizz: the penguins?
Sir_Brizz: the allen wrenches shaped like Ls?
rsk: le penguin
Sir_Brizz: the black mesa mug?
rsk: anyone else notice the date
rsk: on the programmer
Sir_Brizz: the altec lansing speakers
Sir_Brizz: ?
rsk: it's definatly a hidden ETA.
Sir_Brizz: lol
rsk: X-9-1
rsk: hard to guess
Sir_Brizz: that's an iPhone shirt
rsk: (
rsk: :(
Sir_Brizz: and it says "June 9"
rsk: doh
rsk: i dont know bout other apple stuf
rsk: f
gitano: fail!
Sir_Brizz: I can't find a picture of it on google though
Sir_Brizz: it could still be something
gitano: was talking 'bout the two allen keys :P
Gnurdux: whati s the green blob?
Gnurdux: is it some portal reference?
Gnurdux: if the green blob is unexplainable that wouldn't be good for the penguin
rsk: no worries
rsk: one of the penguins is poking at the mac mini
bluekoala: Did anyone see the trolololo man without laughing?
Gnurdux: penguins plural?
rsk: yep
bluekoala: I personally think it's impossible
Gnurdux: i didn't notice
Gnurdux: but what iteh green blob
Azalyn: bluekoala: i did.
bluekoala: You must be a robot
Azalyn: no. i was like "wtf is this shit?"
Azalyn: i was too wtf'd to laugh.
bluekoala: Hehe
bluekoala: I exploded into laughter after the first 4 seconds when I saw his face
Azalyn: i was trying to comprehend what the hell i was watching
rsk: the penguins are def up to something
rsk: the big one has some tools also
rsk: at his feet
Azalyn: and i kept wondering WHY IT WASN'T ENDING
rsk: and the red stick gotta be magic coding penguin
Azalyn: it was just going on and on... and on..
bluekoala: And he didn't stop even when the back of my head was hurting from stretching my face from so much laughter
Azalyn: i laughed at the onion link i just linked
Gnurdux: what's the green blob though?
ackondro: the green thing looks like a chuzzle to me, goes with the turtle with glasses, as they are both from popcap games
Azalyn: not everything on the desk has to be related to a hidden message, if indeed there even is one.
Gnurdux: right, but if some of it isnt it makes it more likely that the penguins arent
Azalyn: not necessarily.
Azalyn: there's another green thing under the second monitor though. with glasses on.
Azalyn: heh
Azalyn: looks like a stuffed plushie of a worm. since it has glasses my guess is that it's a 'bookworm' plushie or something. hehe
Azalyn: in any case, it doesn't matter. we have the linux binaries, we know there is a steam client for linux, and we know they are working on it since it's being updated.
Azalyn: and the telegraph appears to have confirmation.
Azalyn: and there's also another source out there that claims their source was runic games, which mentioned the linux client.
Azalyn: so at this point it's just a matter of when.
Gnurdux: Azalyn, its also a matter of if they choose to release it ever
Gnurdux: they might decide its not worth supporting
Azalyn: i don't think they'd be putting this much effort into it otherwise.
Azalyn: to have gotten this far, they have likely already had their meeting about this, and have made their decision(s).
mamalujo_: true, that might be irrational, but large organisations arent allways rational on such matters, different people pulling in different directions. It's definitely concievable this amounts no nothing but unsupported alphas
mamalujo_: market circumstances change also
mamalujo_: Im optimistic though, its time for some such momentum, there's plenty of reasons for it to be a sane move, someone is bound to take initiative allready and try
mamalujo_: this might sound like counterinductionist thinking though :)
Modplan: Valve is not large
mamalujo_: well 225 employees put it on the upper part of the EU 'medium' classification, so you are right. still substantial
Rednaxela: currently works in a software lab that has roughly 10x the number of valve employees :)
Jelly_Donut: ok
NeoSageY: now_playing[Insane Clown Posse - Miracles] length[0:39/5:14]
NeoSageY: lol