bluekoala: So what's the point of hurd exactly?
mamalujo: the official critique : http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/critique.html
mamalujo: multiserver microkernel design, w cababilities based security model. would be impressive if done, in security and flexibility
mamalujo: cost performance inherently however, unless cleverly done
bluekoala: I got confused and gave up in the first paragraph: Hurd adopts an object-based architecture and
bluekoala: defines interfaces, in particular those for the composition of
bluekoala: and access to name spaces, that are virtualizable.
bluekoala: Doesn't sound like a project I would tackle anytime soon
markatto: whatever happened to L4/Hurd?
mamalujo: indeed :) but theoretically, idea is to move all code but interprocess communication from priviliged space. so you needn't trust much code, not even drivers . also a bit similar to a hipervisor like xen
mamalujo: L4/hurd seems to be still searching for the right kernel. now they will go with their own design , so that will take a while
mamalujo: they thought to use coyotos but that stalled, and the guy developing it got employed in m$, so had to stop working on floss
JEEB: Hmm, hurd seems still to use CVS (instead of anything saner), did it get halted or something? :3
DeathCrawler: lol
mamalujo: i think it trickles slowly, not many ppl prepared to chew on that in spare time, understandably
DeathCrawler: http://img.efetividade.net/img/xtra/martine-termine-gnu-hurd-2.jpg >>> :D
xorl: hahaha
DeathCrawler: kernel Viengoos
DeathCrawler: Is the future microkernel of hurd
DeathCrawler: ♬ Gamma Ray - 2 Dethrone Tyranny - No World Order! (1:19/4:17 30%) Volume 100
mamalujo: I think its a shame they don't use L4.verified , first microkernel that has formal proofs of it's correctness
mamalujo: thats a strong selling point on security, 'and we can prove it!'
DeathCrawler: "As of 2008, Neal Walfield is working on the Viengoos microkernel as an alternative to GNU Mach or L4"
mamalujo: yup
DeathCrawler: objective of gnu hurd is be microkernel independent
mamalujo: hm
DeathCrawler: DragonFlyBSD is a hybrid kernel?
DeathCrawler: Oo
bluekoala: I found that very interesting: theory the microkernel design would allow for all device drivers to be built as servers working in user space
DeathCrawler: yep
mamalujo: though I think its not true for mach
DeathCrawler: Linux is a monolitic-hybrid kernel, because modules
bluekoala: If I could read & write code I would look into that
bluekoala: If this thing ever takes off, being an admin could get you serious cash
SimmyD: omg
SimmyD: i am so bored
bluekoala: Most popular phrase on IRC
DeathCrawler: XD
DeathCrawler: ♬ Gamma Ray - 12 Insurrection - Land Of The Free II (1:23/11:33 11%) Volume 100
SimmyD: haha
DeathCrawler: [MEM] 1552/3962 MB [SWAP] 0/990 MB
bluekoala: I gotta go to bed
bluekoala: No g/f tonight
SimmyD: i need a pub
DeathCrawler: haha
bluekoala: Except the one in my head
SimmyD: hahah
bluekoala: Which is actually a number of them
bluekoala: zzzZZZZzz
SimmyD: i have a feeling we should stop him now before he keeps talking
mamalujo: bluekoala: when linus was making his kernel tannenbaum basically thought it insane ti develop a monolithic kernel for x86, like it was the 70s, not 90s, decade after RISC and microkernels. 20 years on, nothing is changed in the industry still, and supposedly this is a fast paced science..
DeathCrawler: lol
DeathCrawler: XNU...
Sleepy_Coder: Okay...
Sleepy_Coder: So now I've beaten Portal again.
Sleepy_Coder: Why don't they save the game to the Steam Cloud?
Sleepy_Coder: >.<
mamalujo: omfg, xkcd is brilliant: http://xkcd.com/342/
Sleepy_Coder: You know who must make a killing?
Sleepy_Coder: The guy who invented Sticky Notes.
Sleepy_Coder: Now that's brilliance.
Sleepy_Coder:
ragix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Fry
ragix: one day i am going to have a white-grey beard
Sir_Brizz: wow
Sir_Brizz: Civ 4 went Steam Play
Sir_Brizz: Valve must really be pushing for Steam Play support
giselher: hoy
giselher: oh a bins_linux.zip update again
Sir_Brizz: are you sure?
giselher: yes
giselher: I think it's for the server
giselher: mhm the checksum for steam_linux did also change
giselher: ahh no
giselher: doesn't work
Sleepy_Coder: maybe you caught them between updating all four :p
Sleepy_Coder: I'll laugh if there's a Valve employee in here, taunting us :p
giselher: we should ping all users in here
somename: g morning
jrgp: morning
giselher: Sir_Brizz: ?
jumbers: Anything new since the update?
Sleepy_Coder: Hmm I cannot tell if this is bait or... http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Facebook/Source
somename: actually almost everything got updated. but whats new?
Sleepy_Coder: Maybe it can post to Facebook now :x
Sleepy_Coder: that's all I wanted Steam for. Who cares about Portal?
somename: ***** OUT OF MEMORY! attempted allocation size: 3057479668 ****
Sleepy_Coder: Yep, must be for posting to Facebook.
somename: :O
Sleepy_Coder: :}
Sir_Brizz: somename: I get that too
Sir_Brizz: since yesterday
Sir_Brizz: it tries to allocate all of my ram
Sir_Gallantmon: >_>
Sir_Gallantmon: I really have MSVC
Sir_Gallantmon: burning on an effigy
Sleepy_Coder: 0.o
maligor: somename, nice.. who's trying to allocate 3GB?
Sir_Gallantmon: Its brokenness is so bad I'm tearing my hair out fixing
Sir_Gallantmon: in the Lugaru source code
somename: steam
Sir_Gallantmon: http://code.google.com/p/lugaru/issues/list
somename: the native linux one
Sir_Gallantmon: >_>
maligor: someone has a uninitialized variable doing allocation size :P
Sir_Gallantmon: V_V
Sir_Gallantmon: there is good news though
Sir_Gallantmon: it builds and runs for Mac and Linux
somename: at least they are working for it..
Sir_Gallantmon: builds... and somewhat runs on Windows with MinGW
maligor: Sir_Gallantmon, considering they sold it as working on both, why wouldn't it?
Sleepy_Coder: I wonder if they're compiling with debugging symbols..
Sleepy_Coder: Also: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/msg/e105e5d339edec01?pli=1
Sir_Gallantmon: ASCII art?
Sleepy_Coder: Yes and no.
Sleepy_Coder: :}
Sir_Gallantmon: maligor: the source code we're attempting to beat into shape is the Linux version
maligor: it's a program
Sir_Gallantmon: I can gather that much
maligor: it'll make more sense if you run it through the preprocessor
Sleepy_Coder: Very C-like C++. :\
Sir_Gallantmon: blugh
Sir_Gallantmon: no thank you
Sir_Gallantmon: I've had my fill of doing preprocessing debugging
Sleepy_Coder: maligor: gcc -E and gnu's indent :D
Sir_Gallantmon: had to do a lot of it to get zlib to compile right with lugaru
somename: how to save in torchlight?
zak_: steam for linux!
somename: yay!
zak_: i'll be trashing windows as soon as it's released haha
somename: i already threw windows out of my window
zak_: i've wanted too but i keep it for games
somename: ..yes ,i did...
zak_: though i do have most of em working in wine
maligor: it's not like the good games will come to linux with steam
zak_: if the source engine does i'll be happy
zak_: native l4d and tf2 will be all i really need
somename: more and more companys will join linux gaming. blizzard e.g.
zak_: unreal tournament 3 can wait lol
maligor: blizzard doesn't make good games
zak_: you blaspheme
somename: so what?
maligor: I want Paradox, Creative Assembly and Bohemia Interactive :P
maligor: and wouldn't mind Firaxis
mamalujo: civ works pretty good in wine
mamalujo: though 5 will be out in fall, so it will probably be an unplesant wait to get it working.
mamalujo: some friends would like to see league of legends (if thats the correct name, LoL for short, dota sequel)
maligor: well, HoN does have native linux
somename: cheese
Galaxy|: crackers
somename: some1 using kde here?
babai: somename, i do but now at work
somename: how do you get gtk apps looking like in kde?
somename: qt
babai: there's a gtk theme kde4-oxygen-molecule which looks exactly like qt apps
somename: cool
somename: lets see
babai: download it and use gtk-chtheme to changethe theme
somename: thanks... kde, here i come...
babai: u can also use qtcurve to apply the same theme to both kde and gnome apps
mamalujo: anyone perhaps know if Discworld Noir works under wine? its rated as 'garbage' but last results are very old
somename: alright. everything looks okay except firefox :/
GNU\colossus: mamalujo: just have a shot at it and update its appdb entry? ;)
mamalujo: yeah, I'll do that. Its a fairly sized torrent, so I thought to ask before dl it
somename: http://www.imagebanana.com/img/u66cldo/Bildschirmfoto4.png this is how it looks like
somename: pretty weird, uh
mastertheknife: somename: I have KDE4 and GTK apps look just fine in KDE4, look just like KDE4 apps
mastertheknife: somename: GIMP and pidgin are the only gtk apps i have, and they look perfect
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: any specific reason for using pidgin instead of kopete?
somename: and what browser?
somename: konqueror?
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: i'm just using it for long time
somename: lynx? :p
mastertheknife: somename: Opera 10.50
Ivanovic: somename: i use firefox and it works nicely
somename: cool
Ivanovic: search for the kfirefox plugin
somename: kfirefox, kfirefox... *searchs for it*
Ivanovic: makes firefox look a lot like a native kde prog
Ivanovic: (it is a plain firefox theme)
somename: dude
Ivanovic: *but* there are some qt-whatever themes that are able to break fonts in firefox
somename: firefox looks like an kde app now.. thanks :P
somename: it shows also text now... unlike the other theme
mastertheknife: I use firefox without any plugin and it looks just like KDE4 application
mastertheknife: how come?
somename: no idea
mastertheknife: try reinstalling gtk
mastertheknife: http://imgur.com/MMVDQ.jpg
Ivanovic: somename: do you have qtcurve stuff installed?
somename: Ivanovic, no
Ivanovic: some of those do break firefox font stuff (at least the preferences dialog)
tkmorris: x11-themes/gtk-engine-kde4
tkmorris: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/gtk-kde4?content=74689
somename: i think i got that already. (AUR)
somename: or something
mastertheknife: somename: I have gtk-engines-qt and gtk-engines-qtcurve if it helps
mastertheknife: and
mastertheknife: gtk-engines-qtpixmap
somename: i can find mayn qtcurve things in archs repository
somename: *many
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: some of those *do* create problems with at least firefox
somename: i'll try some
Ivanovic: i don't know anymore which one exactly was the one making all content of the firefox preferences vanish
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: I didn't even install those, but firefox works great
mastertheknife: the preference dialog also works great
mastertheknife: I guess they were pulled in as a dependency
Ivanovic: eg this priblem: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277726
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: can't reproduce it
mastertheknife: I close firefox and its no longer a running process
mastertheknife: just tried 3 times now
Ivanovic: it *can* be a problem
Ivanovic: that is: i often had it
Ivanovic: (yeah, not always interestingly)
mastertheknife: My firefox is 3.6.3 if it helps
somename: does opera use qt?
NigeyMoby: Weeeeee
Ivanovic: somename: IIRC it does
mastertheknife: somename: Yeah
somename: k...trying
mastertheknife: somename: but it doesnt fit well in colors except opera 10.50
Ivanovic: somename: you could try getting rekonq
mastertheknife: somename: Opera 10.50 and higher can use native system colors
Ivanovic: it is a slim webengine based browser (though still work in progress, not final/perfect yet)
NigeyMoby: This phone client sux
mastertheknife: hey NigeyMoby
mastertheknife: lol
Ivanovic: http://rekonq.sourceforge.net/
mastertheknife: phone IRC
NigeyMoby: Hey dude
NigeyMoby: It's Android though lol
somename: opera looks okay
somename: 10.10
mastertheknife: somename: 10.50 and newer look much better
mastertheknife: somename: 10.10 was ugly here and didn't use my kde colors well
d2kx: new bins_linux *and* new steam_linux, did you guys notice yet?
mastertheknife: d2kx: Wow, hopefully updated files inside
mastertheknife: and not just steamclient.so
somename: they updated almost everything
mastertheknife: why no one told me, lol.
mastertheknife: :)
d2kx: who knows what the updated steam_linux binary will bring though, isnt that the more interesting one
NigeyMoby: They didn't update anything important
mastertheknife: only steamclient.so and libtier0_s.so
mastertheknife: and libsteam.so is still from 10th march
Ivanovic: so any other steam related news?
NigeyMoby: Nup lol
Ivanovic: beside that the telegrapher people directly talked to valve and they confirmed it to them that there will be a linux release
d2kx: mastertheknife: does the actual steam binary from steam_linux matter anyway?
Ivanovic: (this being the source which of course can not be linked to some website)
mastertheknife: nah not really, most of the code resides in the dlls
mastertheknife: giselher: hey.. you saw the big message i replied to the troll yesterday? lol.
giselher: Some more believeable news: http://www.ozcarguide.com/technology/gaming/3089-steam-for-linux-games
giselher: mastertheknife: yes
mastertheknife: my rep jumped from 6 to 10 in 30 minutes, lol
giselher: you're the master chief, you know
giselher: :)
mastertheknife: btw that user
mastertheknife: is a mac user
giselher: I don't have the patient to write such long replies
giselher: mastertheknife: That explains everything :)
giselher: Mac Users are "a bunch of elitist "
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266335
mastertheknife: I expected to be flamed a little but nothing
somename: mac is a bad gaming platform...
mastertheknife: How will they get past the right click issue
mastertheknife: source games use right click as alt fire
giselher: mastertheknife: +rep
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: if you read the steam download page it is basically a system requirement to have a two button mouse
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: oh good to know :)
d2kx: http://img13.abload.de/img/mac_steam_rage_fffffuuu14q.jpg sums it all up
mastertheknife: what mouse do you all use by the way ?
giselher: 5 button mouse (left, right, wheel up/down, wheel button)
somename: normal one. right and left click and in the middle that scrolling thing
d2kx: logitech g5 refresh
Nevtus: macs don't still use one button mice do they?
Ivanovic: http://store.steampowered.com/about/
Ivanovic: "
Ivanovic: ntel Mac, OS X version Leopard 10.5.8, Snow Leopard 10.6.3, or later.
Ivanovic: Two-button mouse strongly recommended
Ivanovic: same mouse as d2kx over here
mastertheknife: d2kx: I had the Logitech G5 for two years, but it died and warranty gave me G500 as a replacement, its better especially the scroll wheel, much easier to click it now
mastertheknife: without tilting it to the sides
mastertheknife: I had 2nd generation Logitech G5
mastertheknife: (blue)
d2kx: MX510>MX518>G5 Refresh. I love my Logitech :D
giselher: <3 Logitech too
mastertheknife: If it dies, consider getting a G500, they perfected the G5 and called it G500
somename: logitech uae96 here
giselher: 100 times better
d2kx: good to know, but it seems far from dead right now
somename: simple mouse
mastertheknife: d2kx: My mouse wasn't really completely dead, just the sensitivity buttons.
d2kx: it is seriously called uae96, somename?
mastertheknife: d2kx: (The DPI buttons), they actually came half dead from the factory
somename: d2kx: yeah... google it
giselher: I buyed (whats the past tense for buy?) mine for 20 €
Nevtus: giselher: bought
Ivanovic: bought
d2kx: i didnt pay a cent for my g5 refresh
giselher: (facepalm) thanks Nevtus
somename: http://p.gzhls.at/217082.jpg mine looks exactly like this :P
somename: crappy mouse,uh
d2kx: uugh we had them at school, crap mouse
somename: i dont care. at least they are working
mastertheknife: The g500 has a call feature, there is a toggle button that toggles between free scroll wheel (it can spin freely) and the normal precise scroll wheel
mastertheknife: a cool*
d2kx: a mouse is something you work very often, it should be of quality imho. and without back and forth buttons i'd die a little bit inside
somename: why do you need so many buttons?
Nevtus: I can do worse, a Dell mouse
Ivanovic: somename: the back and forth buttons are the most used buttons on my mouse
Ivanovic: they are basically use as often as leftclick!
d2kx: if you want to go back or forth in the web browser or file manager do you honestly want to move the mouse to the buttons in the toolbar every time?
giselher: my mouse is not a 5 button mouse, it has 7 buttons (wheel left/right), didn't notice until today
Nevtus: I use keyboard bindings for back and forth
somename: actually..... yes :p
mastertheknife: somename: Yeah, there are back\forward thumb buttons, and there is tilt wheel for scrolling horizontally
Ivanovic: what i need: left/right mouse button and a wheel with the 3rd button (a plain wheel without right/left is perfectly fine!) plus two buttons for my thumb which do the forward/backward thingie in the browser (mainly backwards used)
somename: LOL
somename: on my ice tea package i can read "OMG04"
somename: Xd
mastertheknife: Ah i found a picture of it: http://careaboutyou2.com/images/Mouse/Logitech%20G500.jpg
giselher: somename: mine says ""30 % weniger Zucker
somename: ice tea rocks
Ivanovic: prefers drinking some lovely earl gray with rock sugar and milk!
giselher: mastertheknife: 2 guys in my use that mouse, it's a very good mouse
giselher: somename: So true
somename: :P
mastertheknife: giselher: yeah i got it as a replacement from the store after my 2nd gen G5 died
giselher: my mouse still works fine
mamalujo: ufuf, caffeine, thats a great idea Ivanovic ^^
somename: i wonder what xp-users will do after 2014 (at that year the support ends)
mastertheknife: The year of the linux desktop :P
somename: it could be this year :p
mastertheknife: hm
mastertheknife: I doubt we will have all the Source ported games to linux by the end of the year
mastertheknife: :/
mastertheknife: so probably 2011
somename: then.... this year belongs to chrome os
somename: netbooks ftw
Nevtus: I like netbooks but not Chrome OS
mastertheknife: I have a Lenovo S10 that i bought 1-2 years ago
mastertheknife: feels so old
mastertheknife: netbooks advanced real fast
somename: chrome os boots in seconds... thats what i like
somename: otherwise, only internet?
Nevtus: I'm still happy with my Samsung NC10
Ivanovic: somename: honestly, what does "official support ending" really mean?
Ivanovic: there will be no more patches from microsoft
Ivanovic: oh, wow
somename: and they stop selling it
Ivanovic: does not mean that the OS will suddenly be unusable
Nevtus: don't they stop selling it first?
mastertheknife: They will stop selling it much before i think
Ivanovic: yeah, MS stopping sales, does not do anything
Nevtus: like a few years before support stops
Ivanovic: there are many dealers selling "used" licenses
somename: yeah. but since nobody will support it, it will be a good virus target
mastertheknife: Nevtus: Exactly, they might even stop selling it this year
Ivanovic: somename: and how is this different from today?
mastertheknife: Nevtus: In order to boost Win7 sales
Ivanovic: somename: with microsoft sometimes taking years to fix important security issues
Nevtus: I remember them planning to kill it soon after Vista came out :P
somename: m$ does patches.... when they are bored^^
giselher: they already stop selling it, its only available for some old netbooks
mastertheknife: XP was released 2002 and is still more used than Vista, what a failure for Microsoft.
Ivanovic: eg windows xp professional is already available for some 20€: http://www.mydealz.de/12895/windows-xp-und-vista-fuer-je-25e/
Ivanovic: and yeah, this is of course not directly from micrisoft
somename: true.. there was a 15 years old bug or something
somename: they fixed it AFAIK
NigeyUK: yey a proper pc keyboard!
mamalujo: I wonder whether m$ fans who were enthusiatic about vista feel very silly now. win7 and xp support lenghtening are basically a silent concession that vista flopped even in m$ eyes.
Ivanovic: but what does *really* change for a normal (stupid) enduser?
mastertheknife: NigeyUK heh.
NigeyUK: hey mastertheknife !
Ivanovic: it will continue being a target for viruses and the likes
somename: nothing
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I'm still using a keyboard i bought in 2001, i really need to replace it
NigeyUK: i love my android phone but dam those iccle tiny frikkin keyboards!
Ivanovic: most normal endusers ain't able to install security updates anyway...
NigeyUK: haha i buy a new kb every 6 months, to much cigarette ash and coffee gets spilt in them to last much longer
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: LOL
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: Wow.. i just use the one i bought in 2001 and open it every half a year or so to clean it
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, i think i tracked down alot of my rebooting / crashing problems
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: related to the battery problem ?
mamalujo: Ivanovic: btw, and sorry for the incursion into privacy, but, is that a balkan surname?
NigeyUK: yeah
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: oh cool what was it
NigeyUK: seems ubuntu is not liking the c2d 6750 overclocked
mastertheknife: Oh i also have c2d 6750 :)
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: running 64bit ubuntu by the way?
NigeyUK: it had been running @ 3.2ghx perfect since day 1 but i think its having a bad effect now, so dropped it down to stock and seems ok, also when oc'd it appears it was running the pci-e card at x1 instead of x16 !
NigeyUK: no 32bit
NigeyUK: for now
Ivanovic: mamalujo: my nickname has nothing to do with my real name
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: wow thats strange, running the pcie card at x1, maybe not enough voltage or something
NigeyUK: going to run the test suite today and see how it performs at stock speeds
somename: iMac sounds like a burger :p
mamalujo: oh, ok
NigeyUK: yeah, either that or theres a bios setting to set the pci-e bus that i havent seen
Ivanovic: somename: in germany it is even worse
Ivanovic: somename: in germany "egg" is "ei"
somename: weiß ich :P
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: there are pcie settings in the bios such as clock speed
Ivanovic: but "ei" is just pronounced like the english letter 'i'
Ivanovic: and considering eating an "egg based burger", nah, not for me...
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I hope you aren't using a generic PSU, it can explain some of those problems
somename: yeah
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: not unexpected!
NigeyUK: oh.. ill have to check then, normally i just set the bus speed to 400 from 333, and the mem and pci bus auto adjust, so i though .. mem is rated from 400 - 800 anyway
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: You should use an quality PSU with at least 30amps on the 12V rail
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: once upon the time there was no problem running my old duron 800 at 900mhz
Ivanovic: after some time, due to increased aging effects, it was not stable at this speed anymore
NigeyUK: :o dam
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: what PSU are you using?
Ivanovic: yes, overclocking can increase aging of your cpu since temperatures tend to be higher and the likes!
NigeyUK: im gutted, it ran perfect at 3.2 .. no voltage increase, nice n cool, and solid as a rock, but lately, .. :( not so good
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, just some 550watt generic crap
NigeyUK: it needs replacing badly
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: Can you see how much amps it has on the 12V rail
mastertheknife: I can't find any reason for the 15 pcie lanes to shutdown and leave only 1 lane for the video card
NigeyUK: afaik its 25 ?
mastertheknife: 25 is not much
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: like i said, this does not have to do with your power supply and the likes, it can easily be the cpu that simply aged
NigeyUK: ohh dam Ivanovic :(
NigeyUK: i dont want it to go old and die *sobs*
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: I'm talking about his pcie card going from x16 to x1
Ivanovic: yes, overclocking *does* come with some dangers...
NigeyUK: im due an upgrade around xmas anyways
NigeyUK: but yeah i dont get the pci card going from x16 > 1 > 16
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: this tends to not have to do with voltage and the likes
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: For instance, an quality PSU like Corsair VX450 has 33amps on the 12V rail and its just a 450W PSU
NigeyUK: i only picked it up purely by chance when i looked at the card info on the nvclock applet i use to control the fan
NigeyUK: ah crap, time to get a new psu then
mastertheknife: Ivanovic: If he didn't change the voltage and clock speed of pcie, its possible, he said his 12V rail only has 25 amps, which is nothing for strong CPU and strong video card, most video cards even say in their system requirement 28A+ on 12V rail
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: what video card is it ?
NigeyUK: Asus EN8800GT
Ivanovic: okay, that card *does* drain some power
Ivanovic: what cpu?
NigeyUK: m/b is gigabyte p35dq6 rev 1.0
NigeyUK: c2d 6750
NigeyUK: and 3 gig ocz sli mem
NigeyUK: sli compatible should i say
NigeyUK: PCI Express x16 Gen1
NigeyUK: in nvidia panel
NigeyUK: when it was oc'd that only said x1
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I also have a 8800GT (from leadktek though with the bigger fan) but my PSU has 30A on its +12V (Enermax Liberty 400W, outdated though)
Ivanovic: hmm, lets see the tdp stuff: cpu: 65W, graphics: 110W, some harddrives and all the likes: no problem with a noname 550W PSU
Ivanovic: that is: i was running my system with a noname 550W psu for some time, too
Ivanovic: that is a C2D6400 and later on a C2Q9300 combined with a radeon hd3850 512MB
NigeyUK: hmm maybe it is just wear and tear on the cpu then
mastertheknife: Its possible, but keep in mind that generic PSUs efficiency is only about 60-70%, while quality PSU is 80%
Ivanovic: on a gigabyte p35ds3 rev1 board
NigeyUK: true mastertheknife
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: do you hear buzz from the PSU under load ?
NigeyUK: when i upgrade ill be getting a corsair 600w i think
Ivanovic: mastertheknife: i am running the same system with an enermax 425W psu now
Ivanovic: ;)
mastertheknife: Enermax Liberty 400W :)
NigeyUK: no but i hear the fans speeding up a touch
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: no need for such high wattage numbers if you use some good psu
NigeyUK: ahh i see
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: you can try increasing pcie voltage, the video card might return operating at x16
NigeyUK: well ill see how this runs today at stock speeds and go from there
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: but only by a little
mastertheknife: brb food
Ivanovic: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a312980.html
Ivanovic: that is the one i am currently using
NigeyUK: tbh id rather leave the pci-e alone, the only voltage that IS increased is memory, cause this board by default sets it to 1.8 and ocx state it has to be between 2 and 2.3
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: that is the one thing i *always* do increase
NigeyUK: is that 3 seperate 12v rails ?
Ivanovic: NigeyUK: since in my experience ram is a lot more stable with some additional voltage
Ivanovic: yes, it is
NigeyUK: oo looks tempting!
d2kx: haha got the same one Ivanovic
Ivanovic: looks like they also released some new version, no idea what the real difference is: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a502904.html
NigeyUK: probably a minor change to some unreferenced feature lol
d2kx: the upcoming Seasonic PSUs will be setting new standards though, 80 PLUS Gold certified and a new passive cooling
NigeyUK: :o
NigeyUK: hey espes
Ivanovic: d2kx: but how much will those cost?
Ivanovic: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=gehps&xf=360_300~1119_80%20PLUS%20Gold&sort=p
Ivanovic: at least this list is rather frightening to me looking at the prices
d2kx: no doubt they will cost you more than the average PSU. but there will be a 400W model which is enough if you are not an fermi user and it should be affordable
Ivanovic: the gold certified ones starting at about 100€ without shipping
d2kx: yeah but right now gold ones are 500W+
giselher: before I start gaming with linux, I should start getting the wayland server running, since it's said that wayland is faster than Xorg
NigeyUK: hey jumbers
Kovensky: is reminded of "thermi - the way it's meant to be grilled"
NigeyUK: has anyone got a fix for the audio lag in ETQW with pulseaudio?
NigeyUK: id rather not remove it entirely :(
Kovensky: there's no fix for lag with pulseaudio other than not using pulseaudio
jumbers: I think I finally got my TomatoVPN to work
Kovensky: gets 500ms latency for anything if he uses the default ubuntu install
jumbers: After fighting with it for months
Kovensky: is a happy OSS4 user
NigeyUK: thought that maybe the answer, it was fine the day b4 yesterday mind, then it just started lagging :(
jumbers: But I can't tell 100% for sure unless I go offsite and try to VPN in
NigeyUK: congrats jumbers :D
Kovensky: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound if you wanna try it
jumbers: I can ping 10.8.0.1 from this machine and 10.8.0.2 from the router, but that's while I'm still on the same network
jumbers: The only real way to tell will be to connect to another network
mastertheknife: jumbers: I also use Tomato (on WRT54GL), there is VPN for it?
NigeyUK: yup, off you trot! lol
Kano: michaellarabel: http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thread-3350.html
Kano: hi mastertheknife
mastertheknife: hi Kano
NigeyUK: kano!!
jumbers: mastertheknife: It's a modded firmware called TomatoVPN
mastertheknife: jumbers: good to know, thanks.
jumbers: mastertheknife: http://tomatovpn.keithmoyer.com/
mastertheknife: based on Tomato right?
jumbers: Right
Kano: penumbra overture source is available,but did not manage to compile it yet, maybe somebody finds out how to do that correctly...
NigeyUK: anyone else watching the space shuttle launch later ?
Nevtus: Kano: link? I don't see any updates on the humble page or frictional forums
mastertheknife: Yeah me neither
Nevtus: oh wait
Nevtus: ttp://www.frictionalgames.com/site/
mastertheknife: it says Opening.. for days
Nevtus: it's here
Nevtus: mastertheknife: it's because they have to clean up the code, make sure it builds etc
Nevtus: http://www.frictionalgames.com/site/node/102
Nevtus: interesting, a new open source game engine that has been proved in real games
Nevtus: great success
jumbers: Anybody want to run a cat5 cable to my house so I can plug into another network for testing?
NigeyUK: how about fibre optic instead? ;)
jumbers: Sure, anything so I can be on a different network for like 5 minutes
Nevtus: Kano: I've managed to make progress building the Penumbra engine but I've hit a roadblock, it wants Newton Game Dynamics stuff
Nevtus: hmm, it seems NGD allows free personal use even though it's commercial so it might not be a problem, can't get to the site to check anyway since it's down :/
Nevtus: for anyone else messing around with this I had to install angelscript and GLee too
mastertheknife: hey espes :)
Kano: Nevtus: do you know if the engine works with other games of the series too
Kano: Nevtus: it would be cool to add windows + fullscreen switching with alt+enter
Kano: thats what i am missing
mastertheknife: How to add alt+tab support for those full screen games?
mastertheknife: I should look into that.
Nevtus: they said it's the source to the entire Penumbra series
Nevtus: *engine
NigeyUK: yes alt+tab in game would kick ass! lol
Kano: i dont get whats the overture specific part is then
Nevtus: I'll rephrase that, it's the engine used in all the released Penumbra games so far
mastertheknife: Its so annoying that such games have no alt+tab
Kano: Nevtus: if you manage to add alt+enter fullscreen switching or even better alt+tab for all p games that would be cool.
Kano: i only need the binary
kloplop321: explosion!
NigeyUK: boom ?
mastertheknife: The problem with alt+tab not working seems to be the application grabbing all keyboard input
mastertheknife: the WM never gets the alt+tab during full screen
Kano: mastertheknife: yes,but p does not grab keyboard in window mode
Kano: just you can not switch between window + fullscreen
mastertheknife: the problem is SDL, it grabs all keyboard input in fullscreen
mastertheknife: window mode has no problems
mastertheknife: need to invstigate more into this
Kano: mastertheknife: well you can disallow that in window too, therefore lugaru has got that nomousegrab option
Kano: p is clever by default. you can leave the game in the menu but not while playing in w
Kano: the biggest problem is that you can not switch between w + f on the fly
mastertheknife: ah
mastertheknife: By the way, ctrl+G also disables mouse grab
Kano: where?
mastertheknife: its an SDL shortcut it seems
Kano: ah
mastertheknife: on any SDL game i believe
Kano: thats interesting
Kano: since when do you know that?
mastertheknife: just googled
mastertheknife: wow it works, lol.
somename: what works?
somename: aha. SDL
asraniel: there should be a wiki page with the current status of the steam linux client..
mastertheknife: asraniel: Slightly outdated but this may help: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/export/0UmBOBf27q/latest?format=html
asraniel: mastertheknife: thx :) just wondering. is there any hope for the text problem to be solved?
mastertheknife: asraniel: no it seems just incomplete
mjr: mastertheknife, hmm, thanks for that, might be useful in aquaria...
somename: welcome back?
mastertheknife: mjr: sorry what did you say? kde crashed
mastertheknife: thanks.. trying to open the penumbra installed with kwrite crashed my kde
somename: mastertheknife, hmm, thanks for that, might be useful in aquaria...
mastertheknife: ooh
mjr: yeah, it wants the mouse grabbed even when windowed. It's useful for some steering operations such as time-sensitive wall-jumping, but also annoying
mastertheknife: Ctrl+G works there ?
mastertheknife: Hmm.. penumbra seems bugged here
mastertheknife: no keyboard and mouse input
Kano: mastertheknife: you have to press esc first to enter menu
mastertheknife: When i press esc, it just asks me if i want to quit
mastertheknife: and i can press nothing
Kano: ~/.frictionalgames/Penumbra/Overture/settings.cfg
Kano:
Kano: or so
mastertheknife: that file doesnt exist here, it probably never created it because i never quit properly
mastertheknife: always killed it with -9
mastertheknife: the mouse input just doesnt work it seems, strangely
Kano: it works here
DonScott: the laser will be a 50 years old tomorrow.....http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20004989-52.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
somename: steam needs to break m$ monopol
mastertheknife: Fixed it, apparently something in xorg.conf
Nevtus: mastertheknife: don't you use irssi? why the need to part/join when restarting xorg?
mastertheknife: I don't use screen
Nevtus: :O
somename: type 111 if you hate microsoft
somename: 111
giselher: 111
Nevtus: I hate apple more
somename: why?
somename: microsoft is the evil in person (okay.. company)
somename: +d
Nevtus: if they were in microsofts position, everything would be much worse
somename: and why? game devs would use opengl then. it would be easier to port these games to linux, too
Nevtus: linux wouldn't exist since you wouldn't be able to run a different OS. apple wants (and always wanted) software and hardware to be fixed in the desktop market
somename: hm...true
mjr: apple is indeed more evil, though currently they're not in a position to _do_ as much evil
Nevtus: Steve Jobs wants "comsumer devices" not computers
Nevtus: mjr: yep, but the success off the iphone/ipad could lead to them getting what they want
Nevtus: *of
redeeman: mjr: they blocked world of warcraft from coming to linux.. that is something
somename: although google could make competition
somename: but they are somewhat evil too
bluekoala: How?
somename: spying their users
bluekoala: Name me one company that doesn't
redeeman: my company doesn't
somename: hmm
Nevtus: google have a different agenda, that everything is stored on their servers and local stored doesn't exist
Nevtus: *local storage
somename: google ist just too internetish
Nevtus: you'd then end up with thin clients instead of computers
bluekoala: That's a tought one to accomplish
bluekoala: I wouldn't
bluekoala: But what's sad is 70% of people wouldn't know the difference
Nevtus: I'd say more than 70%
bluekoala: And go for the cheaper and shinier option
Nevtus: isn't shiny more expensive?
bluekoala: Not necessarily
bluekoala: You can make a concentration camp shiny
Nevtus: I was thinking about apple, where people pay more money for less freedom
bluekoala: That will be cheaper than concrete buildings with proper facilities
Nevtus: bluekoala: don't give them any ideas!
bluekoala: lol
bluekoala: To a lesser extent, MS is like that too
Nevtus: for sure
bluekoala: But it also cost less money
bluekoala: Therefore we can only assume that more expensive things will be more restrictive
Nevtus: MS have a strangle hold over gaming with DirectX
bluekoala: And then steam for linux and OSX came along
somename: directX is the only thing that keeps them a monopoly
somename: and stupid users which say: "you cant have a computer without windows!"
bluekoala: And convinced game devs not to be dependant on opengl or directx
Nevtus: what about MS Office? I know openoffice and others are fine but for many people they just keep to what they know
bluekoala: Indeed stupid
bluekoala: My computer doesn't have a window
Nevtus: those stupid users are also the same people that think Bill Gates invented the computer
somename: Customer: (angrily) "You said I would get 98 windows with this computer. Where are they?"
bluekoala: I think the only genius thing Bill Gates ever did was step down as CEO and let ballmer deal with the sinking ship
somename: ballmer is even more stupid than gates
bluekoala: And crazy
mastertheknife: Its true, DirectX is pretty much the only thing keeps their monopoly
Nevtus: I don't think Gates is stupid, neither is Steve Jobs
Nevtus: they know exactly what they are doing
bluekoala: I don't think they're stupid either, just not as genius as people are led to believe
bluekoala: The Woz is more of a genius IMO
Nevtus: it's also annoying when people think one of those companies invented the desktop metaphor - it was Xerox!
somename: yeah. apple stole it from xerox, too
Cooshie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KwtogdSdY cause it brings out the genius in you
Nevtus: somename: I seen a Steve Jobs interview where he correctly said if Xerox realised what they had at the time they could have been the next IBM
somename: link?
Nevtus: can't remember, it was part of a larger doc I think
somename: :/
Nevtus: sorry
somename: never mind
bluekoala: Nevtus: The problem is always upper management not know when something new is good or bad
bluekoala: If you had geeks as ceos then.... google
Nevtus: a bit like Valve where devs are also the management
bluekoala: Exactly
bluekoala: Any company that decides to let the suits take over seem to eventually fail
bluekoala: Like Atari
bluekoala: But then again, Wal-Mart is doing quite well
bluekoala: People shop at wal mart cause they're poor and many people are poor because of wal-mart :P
Nevtus: the circle of life in action
bluekoala: I suppose people don't see far beyond price tags and new headlines
Nevtus: most people are depressingly responsive to marketing
bluekoala: I know
bluekoala: I like to think I'm not one of them
bluekoala: I don't like sales people
bluekoala: And ads
Nevtus: if you're here, you're probably not
bluekoala: Time for work
bluekoala: Got a lot of learning to do today
bluekoala: Got promoted to more responsibilities
bluekoala: And I'm still technically in training
bluekoala: "Senior support representative" I'm starting production next week
Nevtus: I'm still a student. I think I'll go back to bed in a few hours :D
mamalujo: I think its a more general issue of individually optimal behavior not necessarely being optimal for a group. like the prisoner's dilemma, maybe
mamalujo: Individually, lower pricetag might really be the best choice
bluekoala: mamalujo: I always look at who my purchase benefits; voting with dollars
giselher: are different BSD's binary compatible?
bluekoala: Ultimately I would like to not use money, as it benefits world bankers
bluekoala: Inyhoo, I'm outsky, have fun guys
mamalujo: bluekoala: agreed. though I see it more like a matter of personal ethics, than actually expecting it to have even marginal efect
bluekoala: If you're going to move a mountain, start with the small pebbles
mamalujo: Im not sure its really moving a mountain. For eg, is eating less meat protecting animals from cruel treatment or making oversized burgers cheaper to prolific meat eaters, making them also eat more unhealthy food in the process. I just dont have much faith in individualised action.
mamalujo: So I look at it more like 'who am I collaborating with' kind of issue
DeathCrawler: o/
mastertheknife: just played penumbra.. wow this game is really good, well done
ModplanMan: has it been open sourced yet?
kbios: it doesn't seem so
mattgirv: mastertheknife: Too creepy for me :)
somename: only lugaru has been OSSed yet
somename: when will the others get OSSed?
somename: when time is over?
ModplanMan: they said they hoped by the end of the week
somename: all togehter or separately?
ModplanMan: no idea, presumably they're working on it separately but are trying to coordinate
RambJoe: http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html you all seen that?
RambJoe: Port Windows-based games to the Linux platform.
somename: yeah
Sir_Brizz: we started it
Sir_Brizz: :p
RambJoe: lol does gabe reply to anyones emails?
kbios: Is there any qemu-kvm expert here? I'm getting awful graphic speed with -vga std and any linux guest
kbios: kvm 0.12.3
mastertheknife: mattgirv: its not that creepy, but its really a good game.
kbios: compiling 0.12.4 now
mattgirv: mastertheknife: Lol it bloody well is.. those creepy alien things. It wouldn't be so bad if you actually had a decent weapon :p
mastertheknife: Oh i didn't get that far
somename: how can it possible that when i write %c the compiler says that %c means an integer? its actually a char.. using gcc
mastertheknife: somename: what argument did you pass?
mastertheknife: somename: it prints a byte (char) as an integer, so for the character A you would put 'A' or 65
somename: actually i got a char array here
mastertheknife: prints a char as character*
somename: i wanna print 'em using for
somename: "for"
mastertheknife: somename: do a for loop and print yourchararray[i] then, that would work
somename: thats what i'm doing and it doesnt work
mastertheknife: somename: can you paste bin that area of code to http://pastebin.com
somename: alright. one moment
somename: http://pastebin.com/MSp1hdh1
mastertheknife: thats because table's type is char**, and table[i] gives you char*, you need char as input to printf
somename: hmm
mastertheknife: you can instead change the %c to %s (string)
mastertheknife: that would work, %s expects a null terminated string (char*)
somename: yeah. %s outputs no errors
kbios: Does gcc option -g slow down the compiled executable? Thanks
mastertheknife: now looking at the code, you have an error in it
somename: is a char array always char **?
somename: or what... i didnt get it though :p
somename: a 2 dimensional one
somename: not a string
mastertheknife: char table[9][1] should be char table[9][2] if you intend to use %s, because of the need for null terminator. If you want to use char, initalize with '1' instead of "1", that way it can fit into 1 char, and for printing those characters use printf("%c",table[i][0]
mastertheknife: somename: you actually made an array of 9 strings, each string being 1 byte long
The_Muh: news from valve?
somename: HMM
ModplanMan: another steam client update, probably little changed and already known about
kbios: Never mind, I've compiled now
somename: it seems to work with "char *table[9]=..." too
somename: does it make any difference?
mastertheknife: somename: http://pastebin.com/XTS5pH3i
mastertheknife: %s expects an array of chars, my bad.
somename: ^^
mastertheknife: somename: the null terminator is the value 0 (don't confuse with '0'), so string[0] = '1', string[1] = 0; also works. strings in C are null terminated, this is needed for functions like strlen() to know where is the end of the string
somename: that is what i know
mastertheknife: my paste helped? :P
somename: yeah. it helped me somewhat. i should find out more about char arrays :p
somename: i think i got it
mastertheknife: somename: i made a mistake with the single chars array, it should have been just char table[9] = {'1','2'} and so on and to access need table[i]
somename: table[i][0] means the i item of table and the char 0 of it. (which is a number in my case.) and the item 1 is \0. correct?
mastertheknife: the first code won't compile actually
somename: ^^
somename: http://pastebin.com/iR7Rr916
mastertheknife: somename: the first should needs to be just table[9]
somename: why?
mastertheknife: oh, you want strings
somename: i just want a char
somename: err
somename: string in sense of "a\0"
somename: nvm
mastertheknife: this code doesn't compile ?
somename: it does have the main part...
somename: i excluded that
somename: if you mean that...
somename: that code is actually a part of a function
mastertheknife: that code should work
christian_lappy: hehe topic changed :-)
somename: what topic?
christian_lappy: irc topic
christian_lappy: the stfu about steam is removed
mastertheknife: lol
somename: lmao
mastertheknife: he put it himself
mastertheknife: I mean
mastertheknife: it wasnt by michael or something, someone else put it
mastertheknife: here
mastertheknife: thats better
ModplanMan: valve trying to suppress the news
mastertheknife: anyways somename your code works now ?
somename: yeah. i understand now why it is like that
somename: ...my teacher (xD)
christian_lappy: somename: mailed valve already ?
somename: no, i tought you would do that
christian_lappy: somename: ah, ok, i will
mastertheknife: I hope all the bugs and problems on the Mac client won't delay the linux one
somename: yeah
mastertheknife: there seem to be so many problems with the Mac client at the moment
christian_lappy: thats ouc
christian_lappy: real problems or must complaining users
Nevtus: how serious are the problems?
mastertheknife: I just hope not serious enough to cause valve to rethink about adding another platform
mamalujo: so where could I find the relevant most current, most convincing posts, articles on this hopefully impending release? I saw the telegraph article, that seems convincing
pioto: re: topic? confirmed by whom? the telegraph?
Nevtus: a Linux client first would have likely been a better group to beta test with :P
somename: valve confirmed that to telegraph
mastertheknife: pioto: http://www.steamonlinux.com ;)
mastertheknife: but yeah valve confirmed that
Nevtus: at this point, Valve would have denied it if there was no truth in it
mastertheknife: there is so much evidence.. if its the half working client, the phoronix article, the telegraph article, and the valve looking job
mastertheknife: http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html
mastertheknife: " Port Windows-based games to the Linux platform."
pioto: yes, i've seen the job listing
christian_lappy: isn't that damn old already
pioto: that's the only credible thing i've seen so far
mastertheknife: valve will announce it next week probably
mamalujo: btw where's the link to the alpha client?
somename: it alpha client doesnt even work
mastertheknife: mamalujo: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux
mattgirv: That link is over a year old.
Nevtus: the most credible thing was the actual native binaries. That and Valve keeping them there when we found them
pioto: Nevtus: denying it like that... that presumes valve is even aware of the rumor
Nevtus: pioto: it's been reported on many sites now, even mainstream ones
mastertheknife: Valve would have denied the linux client if it wasn't true
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: do you get the out of memory error when you try to run now?
mastertheknife: not denying means something is going on
pioto: well, they already deny it on their support page
pioto: no. not denying it doesn't mean anything.
vilhelm: it is time to change my primary OS my friends!
Nevtus: the support page that also denied a mac client not too long ago?
pioto: it just means they haven't said anythign one way or another
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: the offsets in bins_linux changed, the new file doesnt work well with the old files
Sir_Brizz: ah
Sir_Brizz: you mean the patches?
mastertheknife: pioto: you are not missing anything regarding the client, its very incomplete, but here you can see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgqdlA_jE8
pioto: "if they deny it, then it does not exist" does not imply "if they don't deny it, it does exist"
giselher: I bet they will announce the linux client today
mastertheknife: In the past valve denied a linux client all the time
Sir_Brizz: pioto: there is lots of evidence for it
mastertheknife: and they always deleted threads about linux client
mastertheknife: I remember it
Sir_Brizz: that doesn't constitute an official announcement
pioto: they are likely too busy fixing last-minute mac bugs to care to deny it again
Sir_Brizz: but it does mean that it exists
mastertheknife: pioto: Valve contacted few big websites lately regarding the upcoming linux announcement
christian_lappy: pioto: the info from the telegrpah was DIRECTLY from valve
mastertheknife: The telegraph being one of them, of many others
christian_lappy: needs to get the picture olf the emial up
vilhelm: this is so awesome
mastertheknife: thats my guess, but i'm sure its 100% what happened
mamalujo: but, if they are looking for a job now, it may mean they'll need ppl to port games as they go, or that they are just basically starting work on it as anything more than a pet project of some group there..
vilhelm: what gpu drivers work best with linux nowadays?
vilhelm: nvidia or ati?
pioto: 'porting games'... could just mean porting the engine enough to make a dedicated server, you know
Sir_Brizz: or they just need more develolpers that can do that for upcoming games and their back catalog is already done
Sir_Brizz: :p
mastertheknife: mamalujo: The client wont be ready in 2 months, but they need to announce it sooner or later
Sir_Brizz: pioto: they have already done that
mastertheknife: vilhelm: nvidia
pioto: yes, for the source engine.
pioto: i'm sure they're working on a next-gen engine at this point.
vilhelm: mastertheknife: all right!
pioto: for halflife 3 or whatever.
Sir_Brizz: how are you sure?
Sir_Brizz: they haven't announced anything
Nevtus: vilhelm: nvidia closed drivers are still the most stable
ModplanMan: pioto that's not how valve works
somename: they will call it this time platinsrc... :p
ModplanMan: the source engine is modular
somename: nah... idk
ModplanMan: they just add capabilities as they need them
mastertheknife: I doubt they are already working on a new engine
Nevtus: source IS their next gen engine
Nevtus: they keep adding to it
somename: source is good enough
Nevtus: it's at version 13 or something at this point
mastertheknife: I believe they will only begin pondering or working on a new engine after finishing with the linux and mac client and porting
Sir_Brizz: even if they were working on a new engine, the justification behind believing that is even more weak than an official linux client
asraniel: where is the tutorial to get that stuff running again? have to bookmark that one
pioto: somename: "64k is good enough"
somename: bill gates ftw
ModplanMan: http://source.valvesoftware.com/
pioto: i'm sure they have a small team working on future stuff
mastertheknife: asraniel: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/export/0UmBOBf27q/latest?format=html
somename: but bill isnt working for valve
asraniel: mastertheknife: thx!
Nevtus: pioto: the new stuff makes it into new version of Source
Nevtus: *versions
mastertheknife: Also, they only ported the newest Source engine to Mac
mastertheknife: So now they are also busy porting all games (e.g. CS:S) to the newest Source engine
mastertheknife: They are almost done with CS:S from what i can tell, its a beta right now
christian_lappy: mhh
christian_lappy: linux will outperfrom mac for sure :-)
Shunt31: Can anybody remeber how to fix the Corrupt JPEG data: 57 extraneous bytes error?
somename: mac needs special hardware, doesnt it?
Shunt31: remember*
christian_lappy: somename: yup
mastertheknife: there is no point in porting multiple source engines to the mac, when you can just port the newest one and port all games to the newest one (which has better dynamic effects and stuff from what i've heard)
somename: another point why linux is better^^
Nevtus: not really, an apple computer is just an IBM Clone with an apple logo on it these days
christian_lappy: aplle branded
christian_lappy: +50% prcir
mastertheknife: Does Valve love apple and mac users so much to do all this for them? Port the client, the engine, port games to latest engine, create steamplay, etc
christian_lappy: its all about mone
christian_lappy: money
Nevtus: and the headlines
christian_lappy: MONEY
Nevtus: FAME
wasdude: apple uses the EFI loader so that's a bit different .. but that's firmware, not hardware ...
mastertheknife: I am saying, all that hassle isn't worth it for Mac alone, but Mac and linux can be nice
christian_lappy: hey, valve will be playing MONOPOLY when it comes to games on mac+linux
mamalujo: well, apple does have a sizable market share these days, right, almost or around double digits?
christian_lappy: nah
Sir_Brizz: if you believe Microsoft, Linux is more of a threat to them on the desktop than OSX is
somename: linux is globally used
wasdude: linux is more of a threat in the netbook and server market, not the desktop market
mamalujo: hm bizzare, I thought we were totally insignificant, still, and not making much progress
Cooshie: the biggest threat is stupid users on any OS..
christian_lappy: lol
Nevtus: Linux is also a ISO away. It's a huge threat to companies like MS if it took off for regular desktop users
giselher: lmao
mastertheknife: Gabe is a person that believes in certain platforms, for example he said in an article that the Wii will have more success than the PS3, he probably believes in linux too.
christian_lappy: mhh
wasdude: they wouldn't care Nevtus - their big money maker is enterprise systems, servers, exchange, enterprise workstation licensing
mastertheknife: Microsoft keeps pushing junk like DirectX, C#, .NET and many other stuff to keep people only developing for their platform
Nevtus: he said that because the dev tools for PS3 are hard to use with it's rather unique Cell architecture
somename: especially directx...
ModplanMan: Ubuntu Unity is trying to get installed on netbooks alongside Windows
mastertheknife: blindly locking the developers into Windows, before even understanding that
ModplanMan: People only use MS specific stuff because of MS's market share.
Nevtus: of all the lock in tech, DirectX is by far the worst from MS
ModplanMan: as soons as more competition from more directions appears, they get forced to use cross platform stuff
wasdude: but good developers learn to expand their own skillsets
mastertheknife: Xbox is also what makes many game developers use DirectX instead of OpenGL, because the Xbox and the Xbox 360 use DirectX.
somename: if rating an os would not be market share dependent, linux would win in every case
wasdude: starting with C, C++, maybe some java and on and on
somename: i know people who hate linux because games dont run on it
christian_lappy: hopefully the steam mac realese will push devs to opengl
mamalujo: xbox is not that huge globally, its basically a us thing?
somename: *popular
Nevtus: somename: depends what market share means. In terms of computer equipment in general and not just desktops linux could likely win
mamalujo: if money is the servers, it probably already wins :)
Nevtus: mamalujo: western countries mostly. it's fairly popular here in the UK
asraniel: should steam work with a 64 bit version of linux? just wondering because i get errors while preloading libraries
wasdude: did you know that you can run 30,000 virtual linux servers via IFL engines on a properly configured z9 or z10 mainframe?
mastertheknife: asraniel: Sure, those errors can be ignored
christian_lappy: never seen aa z9 or z10 live
mastertheknife: asraniel: and they are not related to 64bit
wasdude: no? impressive equipment
wasdude: big ass machines lol
wasdude: redundant everything
asraniel: mastertheknife: i see. just wanted to make sure. i'll find out what my problem is then
mastertheknife: asraniel: the x86-64 can execute 32bit code at the same time as 64bit code because 64bit is implemented as extension, it has different instructions and uses different registers
ModplanMan: Ha, valve mention Blender on their Source Engine pages
somename: where?
ModplanMan: "Artist Plug-ins. Streamline artist workflow by integrating Source modeling functions with familiar programs favored by creative professionals: Autodesk® Maya®, 3ds Max®, and Gmax®; SOFTIMAGE® | XSI®, Blender, LightWave 3D®, Maxon CINEMA 4D, Milkshape 3D, FragMOTION"
mastertheknife: asraniel: So you can run any 32bit program under 64bit linux as long as all the libraries required are also available in 32bit
ModplanMan: http://source.valvesoftware.com/modelingandanimation.php
somename: cool
mamalujo: among 9 others though
mastertheknife: asraniel: you have no problems, the patches in the link i gave you don't work with the newest update from valve
ModplanMan: doesn't matter - they mention it as "favoured amongst professionals"
Nevtus: mamalujo: the important thing is that it is there
Nevtus: since it is a viable alternative these days
mamalujo: no, I agree of course
Nevtus: nice to see them recognise that
asraniel: mastertheknife: ah, i see ;) ok, nice too see that something works at least :)
mastertheknife: asraniel: it worked until like 2-3 days ago
somename: did they update something important in this time?
Nevtus: I've never heard of Milkshape 3D or FragMOTION
mastertheknife: steamclient.so
asraniel: mastertheknife: how where those patches created? i'm a fairly good c/c++/java coder, but i have no clue how you can create binary patches
somename: and what does steamclient.so is for?
somename: -does
Wowi: with debugger :)
mastertheknife: asraniel: diassembling with objdump and debugging with gdb
asraniel: mastertheknife: i see.. sounds fun ;)
mastertheknife: ..not :( lol
Shunt31: mastertheknife: how do you fix the Corrupt JPEG data: 57 extraneous bytes error?
Shunt31: Its the main error I get with steam in wine
eXlin: has there been any word from valve about steam for linux yet?
Nevtus: no
mastertheknife: Shunt31: i didn't
mastertheknife: Shunt31: that error comes from libjpeg
christian_lappy: is just typing an email to the,
christian_lappy: them
Nevtus: email to who?
christian_lappy: valve
Nevtus: again?
christian_lappy: did not send one yet
Nevtus: other people have
christian_lappy: any response ?
Nevtus: if there was, it wasn't reported back
christian_lappy: i asked telegraph abiut theri source of information
christian_lappy: they told me it was valve directly and i should ask them for more infos
mastertheknife: valve wont respond
christian_lappy: then i will not press the send button :-P
Nevtus: hmm, I guess you could try if you say the telegraph told you too
mastertheknife: or they will tell you they can't talk about it
mastertheknife: it doesnt hurt to try though
christian_lappy: thats what i thought
christian_lappy: i will send it
Nevtus: the telegraph doesn't have a reason to lie in this situation either
christian_lappy: yup
christian_lappy: i included the mial from the telgraph guy
vilhelm: bet you just have to wait a little guys :P
vilhelm: patience
eXlin: yes, telegraph propably dont have any reasons to lie about this but why valve has confirmed it to them not some bigger newspaper?
eXlin: and not any1 else...
Nevtus: it does seem very weird
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1268750
eXlin: it might be the case but it feels like something dont fit with that
mastertheknife: Finally someone made a thread about it
eXlin: i am sure steam is coming but why valve decided to confirm some (small?) english newspaper instead of slashdot for example?
christian_lappy: when did valve confirm anything ?
christian_lappy: haven't seen a slashdot news also
Nevtus: it was up linking to phoronix a day or two ago
christian_lappy: ah
Nevtus: eXlin: perhaps because it still maintains the uncertainty around it while giving hope? Valve do like to play games
christian_lappy: phoronix points to the telgrpah
asraniel: anybody tried to run steam for linux on a fat32 partition (for the case sensitive names)
asraniel: ?
asraniel: ah, not bad. now he could find all the files he could not before
asraniel: i guess installing steam for linux on an usb key with fat32 is not such a bad idea
asraniel: well it still segfaults ;) but well
somename: yeah... the word PC confuses people
markatto: that is one of my major pet peeves
mastertheknife: somename: Yeah, I deleted Windows and installed Linux, now my personal computer isn't a PC anymore.
Nevtus: it's a marketing term Mac users like because they feel different. When linux comes they'll hopefully drop it
vilhelm: mastertheknife: Well. Technically correct to say that PC = Windows and Linux
vilhelm: it's two different platforms
mastertheknife: In the humble indie bundle they also said for PC, Mac and Linux
vilhelm: Mac and PC that is
markatto: maybe it's not "personal" anymore because you installed an OS that is useful for more than just personal use?
Nevtus: actually Macs are PCs too (in the IBM PC sense)
mastertheknife: Modern macs are completely PCs because they are running intel processors just like PCs
Nevtus: yup
mastertheknife: In fact
mastertheknife: nothing stops you right now from Installing OS X
mastertheknife: except that you might not have a driver available for some of your hardware
markatto: if it's not in a rackmount case, it's a PC
vilhelm: I guess it's from older days
Nevtus: markatto: depends on the definition you're using
markatto: Nevtus: indeed
Nevtus: it could be Personal Computer (in which case you're right) or IBM PC
Nevtus: and the IBM PC Clones
markatto: and what is then a workstation?
christian_lappy: hehe
Nevtus: they're usually "PC"s too these days, in the second sense
wasdude: o gawd ... we gonna have this debate again?
markatto: hopefully not for much longer
christian_lappy: with raid, more ram, xeon s
markatto: I want to see more cpu diversity again
Nevtus: this confusion is exactly why the term PC should not be used any more, it's been abused far too much over the years
christian_lappy: iwant to see steam linux news
somename: christian_lappy: and? mailed them?
markatto: christian_lappy: I want to see steam linux news *with real sources*
christian_lappy: markatto: on steam website
markatto: christian_lappy: ?
christian_lappy: markatto: telegroah calims to get inof directly from valve
christian_lappy: markatto: it has to be on steam website directly
markatto: telegraph is full of shit
markatto: and may well be confused
markatto: christian_lappy: I think we're trying to make the same point
christian_lappy: yeah
christian_lappy: somename: should i be more patient or simply send it ?
somename: hmm
NigeyUK: rar
christian_lappy: i think wating till next monday will not hure
christian_lappy: hurt
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: is the telegraph considered a serious news site in the UK ?
NigeyUK: yups
NigeyUK: telegraph is a major broadsheet in the u.k
mastertheknife: I doubt they would say the client is confirmed without a confirmation from valve then
christian_lappy: thats what thex told me :-=
christian_lappy: :-)
christian_lappy: info directly from valve
NigeyUK: ahh yeah you emailed them, if it wasnt confirmed they wouldnt have published.. period
christian_lappy: yup
christian_lappy: NigeyUK: not sure why the heck they choose telegrpoah
The_Muh: valve should give a statement today
NigeyUK: dunno, but most of the major broadsheets didnt even do an apple / steam article either
christian_lappy: NigeyUK: is linux usage very high in the uk ?
christian_lappy: mhhh
NigeyUK: not overly high, but we do tend to prefer it over apples crap
The_Muh: christian_lappy: in germany are many linux-users =)
somename: yeah
The_Muh: and "KDE" startet here
somename: SUSE too
r4: CONFIRMED?! LINK!!
The_Muh: yepp... but the suse-man have no medal
somename: KNOPPIX too
The_Muh: the kde-maintainer is the only programmer i know that have a Federal Cross of Merit ...
The_Muh: *who has
somename: when comes debian squeeze out?
Nevtus: NigeyUK: you must not live/pass through a student area. The amount of Macbooks on coffee tables is staggering
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: I only saw one Mac in my life
mastertheknife: they are pretty rare here in israel
wasdude: anyone know a good link for watching NASA tv through vlc?
wasdude: I try the mms:// address and it fails ...
The_Muh: when comes the new kernel?
somename: i never saw a mac "live" yet
Nevtus: really?
somename: yep
somename: everybody here got windows
somename: except me
somename: ^_^
NigeyUK: oh i do see lots of students with macbooks, but i discount students as normal cxitizens ;)
Nevtus: I see them all the time (at uni) and I've used some a few times
somename: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/BSoD_on_390_London_bus.jpg
somename: rofl... BSOD
Nevtus: there not really that intuitive too despite the marketing
NigeyUK: hahah woopsie
Nevtus: *they're
Nevtus: oh I hate those buses with ads playing in them
The_Muh: in germany the buses have the ads outside
NigeyUK: lol
somename: that photo is at london
somename: i got that from wikipedia
NigeyUK: buses where i live have bbc news24 constantly on (N)
The_Muh: sometimes you cant look through the window -.-
somename: when microsoft would sell cars, the airbag would first ask "are you sure?" before it would be actually used
The_Muh: lol
The_Muh: in german its funnier
NigeyUK: lol
The_Muh: the word for "sure" is the same for "safety"
ModplanMan: are you safety?
The_Muh: "sind sie sicher" -> are you sure / are you (in) safety ?
ModplanMan: Yes, No, WTF?
somename: when apple would sell bananas, they would make an apple logo on it
The_Muh: lol
somename: iBanana
NigeyUK: http://ubuntuone.com/p/2xj/
NigeyUK: tune \o/
christian_lappy: mac is case insenstive be defult ?!?!
Nevtus: yup, it's insane
somename: apple bought mcdonalds: they are selling iMacs
christian_lappy: absolutely
somename: and big macs
christian_lappy: that will be super ugly for theirlinux implementation
Kano: NigeyUK: who does that work?
Nevtus: Steam doesn't work for people that made their Mac filesystesm case-sensative
christian_lappy: and they told the mv guys case sensitive steam will not be done
Nevtus: mv?
christian_lappy: thats not a bug in their eyes
christian_lappy: mv ?
christian_lappy: mac
NigeyUK: Kano, the track ?
Nevtus: oh I see
Kano: the player
Nevtus: well they'll have to clean everything up if it's going to work on Linux
christian_lappy: my hopes for linux mac are getting smaller
NigeyUK: ohh, its all part of the ubuntu one stuff
Nevtus: it's just sloppy have all those case differences anyway, even if the OS doesn't care
Kano: it does not seem to be html
Nevtus: *having all
christian_lappy: yup
christian_lappy: way not simply use all lowercase
christian_lappy: thats*insane*
NigeyUK: weird, hadnt noticed lol
Sleepy_Coder: wants to see how quickly DirectCompute will die next to OpenCL :p
Sleepy_Coder: I wonder if MS will rewrite certain parts of Windows to use DirectCompute if a nice enough GPU is available, the same way Apple added in OpenCL to Mac OS 10.6.3?
Sleepy_Coder: I don't think Macs are particularly fast, but Apple does do a wonderful job of mediating/balancing out resources..
somename: M$ didn't even write 1 line of their code
Sleepy_Coder: Though aren't we only a year away from GPUs merging with CPUs? AMD Fusion, anyone?
Sleepy_Coder: GPUs are getting so big and clunky :<
Sleepy_Coder: Well hmm, the Core i3's have an integrated GPU... not very good though
Sleepy_Coder: I wonder if that's what AMD had in mind..
Nevtus: integrated GPUs, ewww
Sleepy_Coder: Hey now, they are finally something you can shake a stick at :p I remember using Beryl on my little Intel Celeron @ 2.4Ghz with some integrated Intel GPU onboard... <3
Sleepy_Coder: Not actually on the CPU, but somewhere in there XD
Sleepy_Coder: They just don't cut it for games like L4D2 at top settings :(
Sleepy_Coder: Sadly :(
Sleepy_Coder: do want. :(
christian_lappy: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8601-RYPX-5789
christian_lappy: unhappy case insensitive thingie
Sleepy_Coder: just wtf.
christian_lappy: how can this be done in linux ?
ModplanMan: wtf, I guess that's why it's still being considered beta
Sleepy_Coder: That's a hugely...
Sleepy_Coder: That is Valve's fault.
Sleepy_Coder: Hate that dumb error. T.T
Sleepy_Coder: Silly Windows thing. :p
christian_lappy: Sleepy_Coder: yeah
christian_lappy: Sleepy_Coder: why the heck didn't they use just all lowercase filenames
Sleepy_Coder: Haha, NTFS support case-sensitivity, but let's fuck with the users and make Windows case-insensitive anyway :D
Sleepy_Coder: All their fault :<
NigeyUK: lol
christian_lappy: mask linux ports less likely
Sleepy_Coder: It wasn't a problem on Windows because of that :>
mastertheknife: Yeah
mastertheknife: but its a minor thing to fix.
Sleepy_Coder: hates overwriting things with the same name on his desktop >.< When dragging and dropping in Windows...
christian_lappy: hiopefully
Sir_Brizz: OSX isn't case sensitive by default, either
Sleepy_Coder: Same name but different case..
Sleepy_Coder: Sir_Brizz: You're shitting me >.>
Sir_Brizz: nope
Sleepy_Coder: hasn't used OS X in a while so
Sir_Brizz: ther OSX Terminal is falsely case sensitive
Sleepy_Coder: wtfwtfwtfwtf :\
Sir_Brizz: the OS itself is not by default
Sir_Brizz: whatever their filesystem is cvalled, I dforget
Sleepy_Coder: So it's kind of a mix of case-sensitivity and insensitivity? You can create files with the same names but different case with the terminal, but not with the file manager, etc?
Sleepy_Coder: HFS+
Sleepy_Coder: or HFS
Sleepy_Coder: I thinks
Sleepy_Coder: wants Reiser4 :<
Sleepy_Coder: On everything.
Sleepy_Coder: I want to put it on my cat.
Sleepy_Coder: <3
mastertheknife: uses ext4 with extents enabled :)
Sleepy_Coder: I also, for the moment :<
giselher: mastertheknife: how do I enable extents?
Sleepy_Coder: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_cat.php?s=cb309b885dc5bd222c58bef340066bdc&id=81 You think there would be more issues...
Sleepy_Coder: I thought extents was a feature of ext4 :\
mastertheknife: giselher: by enabling extents it wont be backwards compatible with ext2/ext3
Sir_Brizz: what is extents?
Sleepy_Coder: loves that you can convert an ext3 fs to ext4 so easily <3
mastertheknife: giselher: I made the partition from the start with extents eanbled option on ext4.mkfs, but its also possible to enable them later using tune2fs
Sir_Brizz: I use ext4 and barrier makes it perform badly
Sleepy_Coder: Sir_Brizz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4#Features
Sleepy_Coder: 2nd one down :>
giselher: do I need backwards compatibly features? guess not
mastertheknife: to check if you have extents enabled: dmesg | grep extents, you should see this: [ 8.801917] EXT4-fs: file extents enabled
giselher: no ouptut
Sleepy_Coder: own't
giselher: output*
mastertheknife: Actually just do dmesg | grep ext4 to see what features are enabled, here it seems i have all enabled, barriers, delayed allocation, extents, mballoc
mastertheknife: err, dmesg | grep EXT4
giselher: only ordered data mode
mastertheknife: try dmesg | grep -i ext4
giselher: the same
giselher: That's Arch, everything uses upstream defaults
mastertheknife: giselher: http://pastebin.com/KhJXVDam
asraniel: Sleepy_Coder: is there a tutorial around for the conversion? my /home is still ext3..
Sleepy_Coder: can't remember if you have to do it from a livecd or if you can do it "online"...
giselher: mastertheknife: any links to some ext4 tutorials, btw, my boot partiton still uses ext2
Sleepy_Coder: tune2fs -O extents,unit_bg,dir_index /dev/sda_whatever
Sleepy_Coder: fsck -pf /dev/sda_whatever
giselher: thanks
Sleepy_Coder: mount -t ext4 /dev/sda_whatever /whatever
Sleepy_Coder: Guess that would be from a livecd...
asraniel: Sleepy_Coder: thx
Sleepy_Coder: Remember to change your /etc/fstab to match, and make sure your kernel supports that fs
Sleepy_Coder: Which would be a good thing to do from the start :x
Sleepy_Coder: :}
Sleepy_Coder: https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Ext4_Howto#Converting_an_ext3_filesystem_to_ext4
Sleepy_Coder: was looking at my little txt of things to remember beforehand XD
Sleepy_Coder: That would be fun to convert from ext2 to ext3 to ext4
Sleepy_Coder: >.>
giselher: Sleepy_Code: using 2.6.33 and ext4, only boot uses ext2
mastertheknife: giselher: Its okay my boot is ext2 as well, boot should always be ext2, most compatible and you won't gain anything from ext3 or ext4
markatto: i still use ext2 for /boot
Sleepy_Coder: uses ext2 for his /boot, yes :3
markatto: no reason not wo
Sleepy_Coder: Could use vfat :p
Sleepy_Coder: I would lol.
markatto: it's easy to rebuild /boot if something gets corrupted
Sleepy_Coder: hmm they use a different fsck...
giselher: mastertheknife: I use different ROOT and HOME partitions, are there some features not recommended for my ROOT partition
Sleepy_Coder: # e2fsck -fDC0 /dev/DEV
Sleepy_Coder: Do both for safety :p
giselher: lol
Sleepy_Coder: "LETS THROW EVERYTHING WE HAVE AT IT"
Sleepy_Coder: Well hrrm, I would probably trust the 2nd one more.
Sleepy_Coder: Though the first might just be a wrapper to the 2nd >.>
ModplanMan: cool, source engine has openAL support
giselher: fsck is a wrapper for the fsck.* afaik
Sleepy_Coder: contemplates installing the Natural Selection 2 alpha through Steam...
Sleepy_Coder: VMware has the prettiest GUI, at least for the installer, in all of Windows software >.<
mastertheknife: http://www.randombugs.com/linux/migrating-ext3-ext4.html
Sleepy_Coder: I wish things looked more like that :<
Sleepy_Coder: I'll cry if it's using Java.
Sir_Brizz: virtualbox is good enough
asraniel: who works on those steam patches? just wondering because they don't work anymore and i try to understand how they where done in the first place
christian_lappy: is wonderning why michaellarabel hasn't commented more on the steam thing yet...
asraniel: is wondering who michaellarabel is
asraniel: thinks he could be the phoronix guy ;)
ModplanMan: holy fuck
markatto: christian_lappy: probably because he's embarrased at reporting "CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!!" when the source turns out to be pretty sketch
ModplanMan: i can read peoples minds
ModplanMan: over irc :o
mastertheknife: giselher: just follow that link i just posted
giselher: I don't have any ext3 partition
mastertheknife: oh.
DonScott: lol who confirmed it ?
giselher: I only don't have any features enabled
mastertheknife: the instructions (the tunefs and fsck) will enable the missing features if you already have ext4
mastertheknife: brb
giselher: DonScott: steamonlinux.com
DonScott: bah
Sleepy_Coder: just always remember to fsck :x
Sleepy_Coder: fsck is a life-saver
Sleepy_Coder: <3
markatto: giselher: I love how that page isn't even html
markatto: it's just a text file
christian_lappy: lol
giselher: lmao
giselher: where is the valve hq?
Sir_Brizz: Washington
Sleepy_Coder: text files are lovely :p
Sir_Brizz: Postal address:
Sir_Brizz: PO BOX 1688
Sir_Brizz: Bellevue, WA 98009
giselher: thanks
asraniel: is anybody here that worked on those patches? the "CLinuxFont::GetTextSize Segmentation fault workaround" is not really explained in the "wiki". i would like to know more
somename: is that feature even implemented?
Sleepy_Coder: aww, Valve is on top of me :<
Sleepy_Coder: I knew they were the dominating sort.
DonScott: ewww
Sleepy_Coder: I should drive up there sometime.
asraniel: ok.. at least i could modify the steam binary to work around the patch of the textsize
asraniel: now i get another crash :)
asraniel: anybody ever seen this? http://pastebin.com/bD9EZC89
NigeyUK: yup
asraniel: NigeyUK: great
asraniel: NigeyUK: any hints?
NigeyUK: nope..lol i reverted back to a previous steamclient.so
somename: i get that error too
DonScott: i want to do this...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok
asraniel: NigeyUK: do you know how one can run steam with gdb? i'm not sure how to integrated gdb into the shell file that launches steam
giselher: asraniel: nope (only vgui patch)
giselher: asraniel: maybe STEAMEXE="gdb steam"
pioto: asraniel: my guess is: find the line that does 'exec steam', and change it to 'exec gdb --args steam', or something like that.
pioto: or that
asraniel: jeah, just found out how
NigeyUK: goto linux32 dir execute the binary then in gdb r - login
NigeyUK: -login not - login .. soz
pioto: so, does this alleged steam client even, like, render readable text at this point?
Sir_Brizz: alleged?
NigeyUK: no it does not
somename: GUYSS
somename: PENUMBRA IS OPEN SOURCED
somename: PENUMBRA IS OPEN SOURCED
somename: PENUMBRA IS OPEN SOURCED
The_Muh: nice
The_Muh: but... stop spamming =)
NigeyUK: love the way people say alleged, when its on valves own frikkin website in a public diretory
somename: http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overture-goes-open-source.html
somename: GPL v3
tkmorris: gr8
pioto: NigeyUK: has valve confirmed that they ever intend to release it as a thing? no. has valve confirmed that it isn't just some artifact of how their distribution system works for the HLDS? no. therefore, it is an alleged client in my mind until there is some actual verifiable confirmation
ModplanMan: who gives a shit if they confirm anything
somename: i do
NigeyUK: go spout that to someone whos A. going to listen, and B. gives a dam
ModplanMan: it's a half working graphical client that valve has continually updated and now the telegraph laim to have been ttold by valve directly that linux support is coming
ModplanMan: companies deny or stay silent on things that happen all the time
asraniel: NigeyUK: do you know how i can get the offset in the binary file from gdb? like when it crashes, i want to know where it is. Or that GetTextSize(wchar_t const*, int, int&, int&) function, i want to know where exactly it is
ModplanMan: silence being the most telling
NigeyUK: not sure dude, a bit out of my knowledge, mastertheknife is the guy to ask
pioto: well, if it happens, i'll be pleasantly surprised. but i personally would rather not get my hopes up until then.
Sir_Brizz: pioto, the client is right there.
christian_lappy: my opinio also..if valve would like the linux rumor they woudl have denied a linux port after announcing the mac version
Sir_Brizz: Alleged: Represented as existing or as being as described but not so proved; supposed
Sir_Brizz: the client exists. There is proof of that
pioto: yes, the 'client' that doesn't even render legible text, or let you launch any games. right?
Sir_Brizz: if you said "alleged official client" that would probably be more appropriate
ModplanMan: yes, the client that has a mostly working UI
The_Muh: someone tried running the client in valgrind?
DonScott: renderable test is for them Mac peoples..... lol j/k
ModplanMan: that loads a login window and the main steam interface
NigeyUK: right, ffs, if its not being released why are they updating it on a daily basis, numbnuts?
ModplanMan: and the friends ui
ModplanMan: that has been proven working by various people, including myself
NigeyUK: hes not gonna listen dude
NigeyUK: dont waste ure breath
Sir_Brizz: lol
NigeyUK: i can see it now even after valve do their press release their gonna say, its not coming out, where is the client etc etc etc yada fucking yada
DonScott: lol
Sir_Brizz: this ALLEGED client
Sir_Brizz: more like this "alleged" client
Sir_Brizz: lol
NigeyUK: Head > Brick wall = Confirmed!
Sir_Brizz: appropraite use of quotes
NigeyUK: lol
ModplanMan: it's like have i got news for you
ModplanMan: a show in the UK
NigeyUK: yes! lmao
ModplanMan: when they say things about celebrities they usd to addd allegedly
ModplanMan: yeven if it was true
NigeyUK: right food! bbs
DonScott: NigeyUK is "alledgedly" getting food...
christian_lappy: stop that
christian_lappy: *kids*
DonScott: k
ModplanMan: I am naked and dancing, "allegedly"
DonScott: .......eww
ModplanMan: lulz
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sir_Brizz: so you actually are then?
christian_lappy: lol
ModplanMan: lol actually no
ModplanMan: but I am allegedly playing TF2 right now
Sir_Brizz: oh I just figured since you put quotes around allegedly...
The_Muh: the word "allegedly" sounds nasty...
christian_lappy: i bet we have to wait another few weeks for an official announcement
The_Muh: christian_lappy: would be bad for valve... rumours are bad, right?
christian_lappy: nah
christian_lappy: great
christian_lappy: stay in the news
ModplanMan: rumours are bad when something isn't true
christian_lappy: ithink they would have stopped the rumors already then
markatto: i wonder if there's a valve employee in here spying :P
christian_lappy: HEHE
ModplanMan: that's what I;m thinking. No point letting rumours persist and even people saying it's confirmed if it isn't real
christian_lappy: +1
Nevtus: there wasn't this huge unknown stage with the Mac client, they teased it then within a short time confirmed it. I don't like waiting weeks just to be let down.
christian_lappy: me too
christian_lappy: maybe they aren#t sure what to do yet
markatto: good point
markatto: maybe they haven't decided what they're doing so they can't confirm or deny
christian_lappy: yeah
ModplanMan: as others have mentioned, it's the mac launch
christian_lappy: another point
ModplanMan: all eyes are sposed to be on that
markatto: they could have just one guy working on it to see what the viability is
ModplanMan: I think maybe the initial discovery was an accident
Sir_Brizz: they have at least two on it
christian_lappy: we will have to wait for an anncouncment until most mac bugs are fixed and most valve games are avaiivle for them
ModplanMan: Accidential discovery > Aah fuck it > continue teasing > half arsed confirmation via telegraph
christian_lappy: mac people would get angry if their client is still buggy and valve doesnt fixx it before annoucning a new plattform
DonScott: yeah
DonScott: see
Nevtus: arguably the new UI in general is quite buggy :P
Sir_Brizz: christian_lappy: mac people will complain about it even if it's not buggy
Sir_Brizz: Valve should charge $34.99 for Steam on OSX
christian_lappy: Sir_Brizz: thast true
Sir_Brizz: then none of them would complain
DonScott: lol
DonScott: true
DonScott: MAC's are more like status symbols
ModplanMan: produce and advert with coloured background and silhouetted people goin "That's bullshit!" on CS:S
asraniel: whii, i get a steam window
AsciiWolf: hello
asraniel: jeah
asraniel: i'm loggin in with steam :)
asraniel: and only one smaaaalll patch was needed
DonScott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTbL5elVXrU for mac peoples
Sir_Brizz: share please
asraniel: Sir_Brizz: need to find out how to create a patch.....
asraniel: Sir_Brizz: but i could just write a tutorial somewhere
giselher: asraniel: bsdiff
asraniel: but the windows are empty :( i can't see a thing (except 3 windows in my taskbar)
ModplanMan: asraniel that's generally normal at the moment
Sir_Brizz: three tiny rectangles?
asraniel: Sir_Brizz: exactly
Sir_Brizz: yerah
Sir_Brizz: I get that too
asraniel: Sir_Brizz: latest binaries?
Sir_Brizz: on KDE, not sure if it matters
asraniel: same here
Sir_Brizz: no
Sir_Brizz: I was getting it before
asraniel: ok, i get that with the latest binaries
Sir_Brizz: I did something at one point and it started loading the windows but it would always crash
asraniel: at least i think, it installed some updates when launching it
Sir_Brizz: might be something in KDE
ModplanMan: nothing to do with KDE
ModplanMan: using gnome here, and get the same kinda things
ModplanMan: though now the main window doesn't open at all. Segfaults
asraniel: where can i upload the patch? (if the patch works.. thats the other question, never did one)
asraniel: Or i can just tell you how to patch yourself
asraniel: very easy actually
ModplanMan: upload the patch to any file hosting service
giselher: filedropper.com
asraniel: at position 0xb04a8 in vgui2_s.so you will find the sequence e8 e3 fc ff ff . That sequence needs to be overwritten by 90 90 90 90 90. It removes the call to GetTextSize (int) inside GetTextSize (float) (i think)
asraniel: http://www.filedropper.com/vgui2sso
asraniel: i hope this works
asraniel: if not, do it the manual way, with okteta for example, very easy to do (just search e8 e3 fc ff ff in okteta and overwrite it)
asraniel: for me no other patch was needed. i executed steam on a fat32 usb stick and i have a nvidia card
kurros: less than 5 minutes until Orbiter Atlantis' likely last launch (baring a Launch on Need mission)
DonScott: wouldn't it be funny if they updated the client and it printed out "Linux - Confirmed!"
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sir_Brizz: that would be awesome
christian_lappy: lol
giselher: asraniel: you should remove the tolower call in steam
mastertheknife: hey guys
mastertheknife: you can find the list of changes in this link
mastertheknife: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/export/0UmBOBf27q/latest?format=html
mastertheknife: asraniel: if you want help just ask.. i wasnt here, and regarding your question how to see where it crashed, type bt to see a backtrace
r4: mastertheknife: so what does the case sensitive thing fix
r4: im assuming ill still see empty windows
mastertheknife: r4: which one.
r4: both
Sir_Brizz: it just fixes not finding some files
mastertheknife: the home folders
mastertheknife: steam creates those: steam, Steam, steamstore.steampowered.com, Steamstore.steampowered.com
mastertheknife: 4 folders, i changed it to only make 2
mastertheknife: steam and steamstore.steampowered.com
r4: nice :)
asraniel: mastertheknife: yeah, i know bt, but i found disas, that helped too
mastertheknife: asraniel: disas is nice but its hard to read in such a small screen, thats why you should use objdump on all files
mastertheknife: asraniel: Afaik the current files didn't change, so whats wrong with the current patch?
asraniel: mastertheknife: yeah, did that too. but with disas i can then find the line i'm searching in objdump
mastertheknife: only steamclient.so and libtier0_s.so changed
asraniel: mastertheknife: ah ok. don't know, everybody said they don't work or something like that
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: with the old patches I get that memory allocation error
asraniel: mastertheknife: in that case i learned at least something ;)
Sir_Brizz: the old patch*
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: thats because memory allocation resides in libtier0_s.so, which was changed, offsets no longer match
mastertheknife: and other crashes are related to the change of steamclient.so
mastertheknife: if you get steamclient.so and libtier0_s.so from few days ago, or from saturday (The big update), it will work
Sir_Brizz: oh you're saying they recently broke those
mastertheknife: its not something that can be patched, the offsets changed, the libraries end up calling invalid\wrong functions
Sir_Brizz: gotcha
Sir_Brizz: I suppose I'll just wait until they make another patch
Sir_Brizz: I couldn't get the main window up before anyway
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: or use the files from saturday with the bootinhibitall=enable setting
somename: seems like the steam devs dont test the client, do they?
mastertheknife: I have a link
asraniel: mastertheknife: what needs patching in those files? do they fix the empty windows bug?
mastertheknife: asraniel: no
Sir_Brizz: somename: I'm sure they do at certain times, just don't forget that the public links are built from an automated build server
mastertheknife: This is bins_linux from saturday (the big update), this one will work: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/bins_linux.zip.320aeefb3526c7fb2238e08a20c6a17e4bf2d727
mastertheknife: asraniel: But you need a setting to prevent it from updating
Sir_Brizz: what is bootinhibitall?
asraniel: mastertheknife: then why can i launch steam without any patches on those files? what will improve with the old files?
Sir_Brizz: oh
Sir_Brizz: prevents it from patching
mastertheknife: asraniel: i dont know.. i havent tried with new files
Sir_Brizz: asraniel: were you getting the memory allocation error before/
mastertheknife: asraniel: but people said that with the new files it doesnt launch anymore
asraniel: mastertheknife: it does here
somename: and? any new changes?
asraniel: empty windows
mastertheknife: BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable into steam.cfg will prevent it from patching
asraniel: mastertheknife: but i have to check, i always launch it with gdb. thats perhaps the reason it works
mastertheknife: from updating*
ModplanMan: yah, with new files the main window doesn't load
Sir_Brizz: I can get the login screen and welcome screen and install screen on the new files
Sir_Brizz: but once you login it crashes
ModplanMan: yeah, that's what I mean
mastertheknife: ModplanMan: you can use these files (only need steamclient.so and libtier0_s.so, these are only ones changed) it will work, but you need to add a setting to steam.cfg to prevent it from updating
mastertheknife: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/bins_linux.zip.320aeefb3526c7fb2238e08a20c6a17e4bf2d727
mastertheknife: Its from saturday (the big update)
ModplanMan: mastertheknife: <3
mastertheknife: :)
Sir_Brizz: guys stop playing with this alleged client or Valve will stop working on it
somename: its public
Sir_Brizz: lol
ModplanMan: yeah guys, steam might be shut down altogether
Sir_Brizz: Valve will sell off its steam service because people in Linux downloaded an alpha client
christian_lappy: yup
ModplanMan: ywe shouldn't be doing these things with publicly accesible files, valve gets angry
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Sir_Brizz: VALVE GET ANGRY LETS OFF STEAM STEAM ON LINUX CONFIRMED
DonScott: lol
Sleepy_Coder: blah.
ModplanMan: :o OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
mastertheknife: Its not like im patching it anymore
giselher: mastertheknife: your fried MADDOGGE :) http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14948255&posted=1#post14948255
mastertheknife: i just told them how to get it to work
somename: why would they get angry?
mastertheknife: giselher: the PC and Mac thread? yeah.. a troll
Sir_Brizz: I don't think Valve cares, tbfh
somename: they could abuse us as alpha-testers and we just dont know it
Sir_Brizz: if they never announce it, they're enjoying leading us on. If they do, they'll be glad people are interested
ModplanMan: somename: some people on various forums were saying people shouldn't be doing this
ModplanMan: taking the mickey :)
Sir_Brizz: heh yeah
Sir_Brizz: on phoronix forums lots of people were saying dumb things like that heh
mastertheknife: Yeah
christian_lappy: including me
mastertheknife: one said that im a Valve employee, lol
Sir_Brizz: "Don't mess with it because Valve won't like it and may just not make it after all"
christian_lappy: but i thought you guyswould upload modified steam files
mastertheknife: giselher: lol at your reply :)
Sir_Brizz: nah no need to
somename: shit, i dont have a pc!!1
giselher: in austria no one says pc, they say windows
mastertheknife: giselher: LOL someone other than you also replied to him
somename: and what is a mac? doors?
ModplanMan: a mac is another name for a certain kind of coat
ModplanMan: at least in some places
giselher: mastertheknife: As I said, we will rule the forum :)
Sir_Brizz: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14948336&postcount=22
mastertheknife: giselher: everyone attacked him in the linux thread so he abandoned it, and now hes getting attacked in this thread.. lol
ModplanMan: I think he's deliberately trolling
giselher: Sir_Brizz: +rep, good reply :)
Sir_Brizz: hehe thanks
giselher: I like trolls, because nobody likes them
Sir_Brizz: lol
somename: dont feed the troll!
Sir_Brizz: feeding trolls is funny
Sir_Brizz: sometimes you can get them banned
ChemBro: feed the penguin!
giselher: omg he replyed
Sir_Brizz: rofl
Sir_Brizz: awesome
JEEB: I'd feed the WallPenguin (he's developing an mp4 muxer atm, I want him to keep on so feeding him is a good thing)
mastertheknife: LOLL
mastertheknife: what a reply
giselher: Now, he is trying to act intelligent
somename: is he using mac?
giselher: It seems
mastertheknife: yeah he is
mastertheknife: he posted in the mac forum
somename: i wonder why almost all mac users are retarded...
Sir_Brizz: they have to be in order to spend the money required on Apple products
Sir_Brizz: smugness is required
DonScott: lmao
Sir_Brizz: for example, at the Apple store their techs are called "Geniuses"
Sir_Brizz: hello smug bastards
mastertheknife: somename: because of this :P http://img13.abload.de/img/mac_steam_rage_fffffuuu14q.jpg
somename: portal on mac.... could be funny ^^
Sir_Brizz: ROFL
giselher: mastertheknife: you like that image
Sir_Brizz: that is awesome
mastertheknife: giselher: love it
mastertheknife: I heard modern macs aren't sold with 1 button mouse anymore
andar: i believe they are
andar: you press control plus click a button to simulate a right-click
andar: at least according to a fanboy here at work
DonScott: I don't like macs all that much but they're commercials are funny......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HhncO6w4Pc&feature=related
somename: Hi, I'm a penguin
ModplanMan: penumbra is now open source!
ModplanMan: http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overture-goes-open-source.html
somename: i know
mastertheknife: penumbra is one amazing game btw
ChemBro: i cannot play penumbra, too scary
somename: although the game data itself isnt open sourced
Sir_Brizz: http://i.imgur.com/EFOH6.jpg
mastertheknife: See those commercials
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eTguZ5OzJ4&feature=related
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cldeHjFig_c&feature=fvw
somename: yeah
mastertheknife: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-329Czokjk&feature=related
mastertheknife: hehe
mastertheknife: those are all from Novell :P
giselher: Sir_Brizz: I posted that image to the Portal Mouse issue thread, I hope the mac users don't kill me
somename: microsoft and novell are just working together because m$ cant stand these vids
mastertheknife: giselher: I did it too, you didn't notice?
giselher: yes I noticed, I quoted you
mastertheknife: rofl
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266335
mastertheknife: we will probably get flamed
asraniel: mastertheknife: just that you know, using the old steamclient.so and libtier0_s.so (not patched) shows the steam windows
mastertheknife: asraniel: Yeah, they work.
mastertheknife: asraniel: I never made patch for these files anyhow
asraniel: mastertheknife: using only one small patch and a fat32 usb key
mastertheknife: asraniel: do you have fonts working?
asraniel: mastertheknife: no...
mastertheknife: asraniel: me neither :P
asraniel: mastertheknife: any clue what broke the windows in the latest update?
Wicked: hey all. just got in. any news? i see the topic has changed.
mastertheknife: asraniel: its because the offsets change
Wicked: any links to official confirmation?
mastertheknife: asraniel: the files end up calling wrong functions etc
mastertheknife: Wicked: http://www.steamonlinux.com :P
giselher: lol
mastertheknife: Wicked: well actually its from telegraph
Wicked: lol
asraniel: mastertheknife: ok... wrong functions where? so probably we just have to wait so that the other files get updated?
somename: valve will give next week an official statement maybe
mastertheknife: Wicked: and one emailed telegraph and asked them and they said they got their information from valve
mastertheknife: somename: most likely
Wicked: so its the same situation as 2 days ago? :)
mastertheknife: asraniel: I have no idea, but its usually what happens when you replace a library without re-compiling
mastertheknife: Wicked: have you seen the telegraph article ?
Wicked: i think i have
Wicked: let me check
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: your reply was hilarious, "how is the view from down there?" rofl
Wicked: this one? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/aapple/7715209/Steam-for-Mac-goes-live.html
Wicked: that mentions linux at the very end?
somename: 404
somename: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7715209/Steam-for-Mac-goes-live.html
Wicked: it just loaded for me
somename: in your like theres a typo: aapple instead of apple
somename: *link
somename: afk
Tallken: hum, valve has twitter? http://twitter.com/valvesoftware
mastertheknife: Yeah that one..
giselher: mastertheknife: Mac is the hardware and OS X is the software iirc
mastertheknife: Yeah oops my bad i will correct
somename: http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
somename: Linux 1.60%
somename: seems that linux grows
mastertheknife: thats just web
somename: so what?
mastertheknife: its not really accurate
mastertheknife: because for example, they count iPhone as Mac
mastertheknife: oh my bad, they did a separation now
Wicked: i still think...even if linux gamers are a small percentage....if valve ports steam to linux..they will undoubtedly have that market in their corner.
somename: yope
christian_lappy: they surely will rulethe linux gaming
christian_lappy: and mac
christian_lappy: monopoly for valve
DonScott: yeah
DonScott: but
mastertheknife: Wicked: linux will grow to at least 5% in 2 years
DonScott: steam is free
mastertheknife: Wicked: gaming is what holds so many people to windows
Wicked: yea
DonScott: the games cost money
DonScott: and they always will
Wicked: as they should
giselher: mastertheknife: MADDOGGE uses Vista64
DonScott: yeah
mastertheknife: Ok maybe 5% in 2 years is too much, maybe will grow to 4%, but it will definitely grow
Wicked: games talk a shitload of work. quality games are not gonna be written for free
Wicked: *take
ModplanMan: some stats posted before by somene put linux at 5% already
ModplanMan: having grown 2% over the past 3 years
mastertheknife: Wicked: The engine is what has to be ported
mastertheknife: Wicked: the rest is content, and the content will work on all platforms
Wicked: yea. i know
mastertheknife: at least with the Source engine
somename: lets see who will join after valve to linux gaming
Wicked: prob no one
mastertheknife: Wicked: the problem right now is that are many versions of the Source engine
mastertheknife: Wicked: Valve chose to only port the newest version of the Source engine to Mac, and to port all games (including windows ones) to the newest engine for better graphics and effects
wait4steam: i see we have a new topic. is it really confirmed by valve now?
Wicked: wait4steam, no
DonScott: i thought valve said they were standardizing the source engine though ?
wait4steam: :/
mastertheknife: CS:S is now being ported to the newest engine, its actually done and now its in beta
DonScott: yeah
mastertheknife: DonScott: The plan is to keep only 1 version of the Source engine (newest)
DonScott: yeah that's what I mean
mastertheknife: Garry mod is also working on porting his mod to the newest engine
DonScott: yup
The_Muh: y the engine isnt backward-compatible?
mastertheknife: http://www.garry.tv/?p=1745
mastertheknife: The_Muh: I think some changes require slight recoding
mastertheknife: No idea
somename: "Mac pwns PC totally.. Pc is for gay ass fucking losers" ... lol
somename: i love those people
Wicked: has anyone played any valve games on mac yet?
Wicked: if so. do they play just as good?
christian_lappy: ...It presents a DX9 compatible interface to the engine, engine calls me, I call GL, dots appear...
mastertheknife: Wicked: from what i heard, framerate is low because the mac video drivers aren't good
Wicked: :o
somename: linux is the answer
christian_lappy: i thought 42 is the answer ;-)
Nevtus: what's the question again?
somename: the question is 6*7
christian_lappy: no, 6*9
Wicked: lol
ChemBro: christian_lappy: maybe linux42 is the answer
christian_lappy: possible
The_Muh: l*i*n*u*x = 42
ChemBro: linux42.org
somename: #define linux 42
somename: gives an error, shit :p
christian_lappy: interesting post http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267720&page=2
christian_lappy: interesting post http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267720&page=1
Nevtus: hmm, so if my understanding is right they are reinventing wine by having a translator for DirectX -> OpenGL calls?
DonScott: yeah.....that's how i read it too
mastertheknife: rbarris post in first page explains
Nevtus: this is... worrying
DonScott: yeah
ModplanMan: The actual opengl part is native
mastertheknife: Nevtus: But they are probably doing it better, they have more access and control over the engine
mastertheknife: Wine is also OpenGL native.
mastertheknife: Its really concerning though.
DonScott: kinda lame actually
Nevtus: it shows how deep Microsoft tech goes in Valves engine and games
mastertheknife: I just hope its faster than Wine
willwh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ljFfL-mL70
willwh: har har
DonScott: although.....if it performs a lot faster than wine...then it'll be aight
mastertheknife: Nevtus: back in 2003 when the engine was developed, they wanted an engine that is easy to port to the only normal console back then, the Xbox
mastertheknife: Nevtus: and Xbox uses DirectX
ModplanMan: I can tell you guys haven't actually run a profiler on our stuff to see where the time actually goes each frame. There be dragons in the swamp..
ModplanMan: Also please share the names of the Mac GL-based titles any of you have worked on, I am curious!
ModplanMan: from rbarris
ModplanMan: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14949146&postcount=29
christian_lappy: oh, he was angry
mastertheknife: lol
mastertheknife: who is Rambjoe?
ModplanMan: let's flame him
mastertheknife: nah
mastertheknife: rbarris is very nice for answering questions like that
ModplanMan: not in the way he just did
christian_lappy: so we also will get a non native opengl version..
ModplanMan: his entire response is a classic fallacy
mastertheknife: It will perform faster than wine though
ModplanMan: "Yeah, well, you don't know anything so neh!"
Nevtus: mastertheknife: no excuse, Unreal (and other engines) can output to both DirectX and OpenGL render interfaces
mastertheknife: Have you tried running Source in wine using dx9 renderpath? its slow, forcing us to use -dxlevel80
christian_lappy: ask him if its faster than wine ...
christian_lappy: or cx
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: its ok in cx and cedega
Nevtus: they are basically reinventing the wheel (wine) with this method
mastertheknife: Nevtus: the unreal 2.X engine is very modular
christian_lappy: nativ vs.. cx will be interesting
ModplanMan: the source engine is supposed to be modular
mastertheknife: Nevtus: Valve could do the same, but seems like they were trying to save money or time
mastertheknife: Nevtus: You forget that DX9 through wine is very slow
Nevtus: I suspect that DirectX runs deep into the engine and Valve never considered that being a problem till recently
mastertheknife: Their approach is to intercept DX9 calls and covert them to OpenGL calls, with probably less overhead than wine.
ModplanMan: for the exact same reasons that valves method will be crappy
DonScott: dx through anything that isn't dx is slow though....
ModplanMan: no wander they don't allow geforce 7 series cards on the Mac versions
Sir_Brizz: < mastertheknife> Sir_Brizz: your reply was hilarious, "how is the view from down there?" <-- hehe thanks
ModplanMan: on windows it's fine but through Wine it's crap
mastertheknife: Hey its better than wine after all
mastertheknife: and maybe in the future will they use a faster approach
mastertheknife: who knows
Nevtus: ModplanMan: hah, yeah this explains the higher specs
ModplanMan: that's my point - they're not faster, hence why don't allow geforce 7 cards
christian_lappy: guys are angry cuase the ca use their 7300 with cx but not wth native steam
ModplanMan: because otehrwise framerate would be too low
ModplanMan: I use a geforce 7, having done so in windows & then through wine. In windows it was fine, in wine it's too low
ModplanMan: and here they are, stopping geforce 7 on macs from playing portal...
Nevtus: this could give OpenGL a bad name when people complain about the performance issues...
DonScott: yeah seriously
christian_lappy: one with a forum account should akshim why he think thats faster than doing ii with wine/cx
Nevtus: this is genuinely disappointing
DonScott: all it sounds like is Wine for steam basically
DonScott: which we already have
DonScott: and it sucks
christian_lappy: they wre so proud to not use a compatibiliy layer
Sir_Brizz: what is the netstat command to view what ports a remote server is listening on?
christian_lappy: the ap itself is mac binary
christian_lappy: netstat -nlp
christian_lappy: netstat -nlp|grep pidofyourpgrog
Sir_Brizz: thanks
christian_lappy: np
mastertheknife: by the way
mastertheknife: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX
mastertheknife: Good read
Sir_Brizz: wait
mastertheknife: "[10:freenode/#phoronix(+cn)] [Act: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
mastertheknife: [#phoronix]
mastertheknife: errr
Sir_Brizz: does that check a remote server?
mastertheknife: "[10:freenode/#phoronix(+cn)] [Act: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
mastertheknife: [#phoronix]
mastertheknife: what the heck
Sir_Brizz: basically I have a url and I want to see what ports that URL has open
mastertheknife: OpenGL is supported on every gaming platform, including Mac, Windows, Linux, PS3 (as a GCM wrapper), Wii, iPhone, PSP, and DS. Well, every gaming platform except for the XBox
christian_lappy: Sir_Brizz: so you want to check an remote server ?
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sir_Brizz: it's my server
christian_lappy: use nmap
Sir_Brizz: I just want to see if my firewall rule actually worked
christian_lappy: then nmapis the way togo
giselher: I replied to rbarris, I hope he does not quit working on the linux port
somename: directX....
Sir_Brizz: ah yeah nmap
christian_lappy: giselher: he surely will not like the comparision to wine
christian_lappy: but his rely will be interesting
DonScott: is bummed out now and has to go to work......
DonScott: later peoples
giselher: 3 linux/phoronix users in a row
mastertheknife: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173683&page=57
mastertheknife: what is this game he posted? you know it?
Gnurdux: no news from michaellarabel ?
somename: heroes of newerth?
mastertheknife: yeah
ModplanMan: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14949620&postcount=36
mastertheknife: ah seems need to pay $30 to make an account
ModplanMan: rbarris replied
giselher: ModplanMan: I think you're to aggressive
somename: thats a cool game, but costs money
somename: the beta of it was free btw
The_Muh: play wesnoth =)
ModplanMan: gisekher I don't mean to be, but I'm not going to treat him with kiddy gloves if he's ready to flame someone else like it seemed he was about to do
ModplanMan: My mentality goes that if someone flames/trolls or is disrespectful, I drop all pretenses
mastertheknife: The_Muh: wesnoth is free?
somename: yep
giselher: mastertheknife: you don't know wesnoth?
somename: although i dont like the graphics
Nevtus: if that's the method they are using for non-windows platforms, the graphical and performace problems could play right into the MS FUD about DirectX > OpenGL
Nevtus: this could damage the future of games on other platforms in a very public way
mastertheknife: giselher: no
ModplanMan: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14949620&postcount=36 that's his response
somename: this is all a part of m$ plan
ModplanMan: not sure if it clears anything up about whether it's WINE-like
mastertheknife: I used to play an MMORPG called wesnoth
mastertheknife: ModplanMan: He made 2 replies
The_Muh: mastertheknife: its not an MMORPG
The_Muh: its a turn-based strategy - but its awesome
The_Muh: *not a
ModplanMan: so from his reponse, is anyone experience enough to say that it is/isn't WINE-like?
The_Muh: what is wine-like?
ModplanMan: the method source uses for opengl
The_Muh: why it should be wine-like?
The_Muh: Oo
ModplanMan: rbarris made a reponse to a question about the method they used to implement opengl in source engine
Nevtus: The_Muh: read the backlog
The_Muh: hm... no... to lazy
ModplanMan: which suggested something akin to wine - translating DX calls to opengl
somename: as i understand him, its not wine-like
The_Muh: a non-valve-dev cant know how source is using OpenGL
ModplanMan: rbarris is THE valve developer who apparently implemented source opengl module
christian_lappy: yup
Nevtus: indeed, he looks to be THE guy for the opengl ports
christian_lappy: he knows what he talksabout
ModplanMan: The_Muh http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14949620
somename: i wonder which os he uses...
Nevtus: somename: I'm guessing Windows
somename: who knows
somename: except himself and chuck norris
Nevtus: and Gabe
ModplanMan: gabe wouldn't know, he's stuck at his desk
mastertheknife: The_Muh: Thanks i will give it a try
ModplanMan: one day he gained 5lb too many while in a chair barely big enough and...
Nevtus: giselher: are you trying to tempt him with spilling the Linux confirmation?
mastertheknife: he wont say anything
mastertheknife: so no point in trying
giselher: Nevtus: mhm ;-) maybe
The_Muh: i understand
giselher: It's worth a try
The_Muh: simple callback-programming
christian_lappy: giselher: nice try
The_Muh: i use this method for my MuhChatGTK-client
The_Muh: (okay - no opengl ;-) )
dusty_fox: will there be any performance hits with this method? like the performance hits with wine?
giselher: the one below, ruined everything
christian_lappy: likely not
ModplanMan: kill him
ModplanMan: the openAL question is answered in the Portal update news
mastertheknife: where is MADDOGGE.. the troll and run dude
christian_lappy: idiot
dusty_fox: good. i don't care if they have to use some sort of dx9 translation api, as long as it is just as fast
mastertheknife: dusty_fox: Exactly, DX9 through wine is very slow, through wine most play with -dxlevel80
The_Muh: dusty_fox: rbarris called it "api"? OO
Nevtus: dusty_fox: we don't know that for sure. Also the Mac version demands higher specs than the Windows version... a bit like wine does
christian_lappy: why< not simplyask for the port...damn idiot
dusty_fox: hmmm
dusty_fox: yeah, even at dxlevel 80 TF2 runs much slower in wine
dusty_fox: don't even try to play left 4 dead, heheh
dusty_fox: The_Muh: I dunno if he used "api", I just said it :p
christian_lappy: dusty_fox: try cx or cedega
dusty_fox: christian_lappy: I've heard cedega is kind of out-dated? is that right or wrong?
dusty_fox: I should probably update wine first though, since I'm using the 1.0.1 version from debian's repository...
christian_lappy: dusty_fox: right
christian_lappy: dusty_fox: they are working on an update.....
dusty_fox: The_Muh: he called them libs instead of apis
dusty_fox: I don't have too much incentive to fiddle with wine though, as long as I have a windows dual boot where it runs much smoother...
dusty_fox: maybe if I was exclusively linux..
christian_lappy: i am
ModplanMan: So am I. Last time I used Windows was with the Windows 7 RC
dusty_fox: do you have any windows vm's or anything to run the occasional completely-incompatible-with-wine program? I think if I got rid of my windows installs I'd still at least have to have one VM lying around
giselher: mastertheknife: the post between us dissapeared, mods admins or valve?
mastertheknife: giselher: in what thread?
dusty_fox: this one? "I am curious, why is geforce 7 series cards acceptable on Windows, but not on Mac (upped requirements to geforce 8 series)?
dusty_fox: Having used WINE which uses presumably a similar/same method of translating DX calls to openGL, Geforce 7200 GS can run source games pretty respectably in Windows, especially in DX8 mode. However, through WINE on Linux, it's not too good even on DX8, generally leading to a not good enough experience.
dusty_fox: So why would Mac need higher system requirements if there wasn't a performance loss from not doing it native (and not native in the sense of WINE)? Indeed, this method sounds exactly like WINE, but simply specific to source."
dusty_fox: i haven't refreshed my page for a while
mastertheknife: this one is still there
ModplanMan: that was mah post
giselher: mastertheknife: native OpenGL
mastertheknife: giselher: there was a one?
dusty_fox: oh wait, fail. lol
mastertheknife: giselher: what did it say?
giselher: Asking about Openal and Linux
christian_lappy: openal question
ModplanMan: source uses openAL, check the portal update news
ModplanMan: it specifically mentions it
giselher: but why was it deleted?
ModplanMan: but not by default it seems I should add
Nevtus: that's weird, why'd they delete that post?
mastertheknife: Maybe he found out the answer himself
mastertheknife: and decided to delete
giselher: not tinkering anymore with alpha software, instead getting information directly from valve :)
ModplanMan: it referenced linux specifically remember
dusty_fox: ModplanMan: is it an option in the options menu? Or something like a console command, or a config file you have to edit?
Nevtus: oh, you can you delete your own posts on that forum?
ModplanMan: dusty_fox a command you can set, i'll get the link
giselher: you cannot delete it
giselher: An admin, mod or VALVe!!!12 must delete it
ModplanMan: dusty_fox http://store.steampowered.com/news/3825/
dusty_fox: thanks ModplanMan
dusty_fox: what would portal use by default, besides openal?
Gnurdux: so wait what isn't clear from his response is whether he is writing replacement DX function calls or replacements for functions that themslves call dx
ModplanMan: dusty_fox core audio I think it's called
ModplanMan: OSX native sound system
dusty_fox: ModplanMan: oh I see. Well at least the openal code is written :)
giselher: (you can delete you own post)
ModplanMan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Audio
ModplanMan: aha, core audio actually includes an implementation of openAL
somename: wow, everyone leaving
The_Muh: somename: maybe a server burns
dusty_fox: maybe it's dinnertime? It's lunch time for me..
The_Muh: here its half past ten (pm)
mastertheknife: here its 23:39
giselher: here its 22:39
somename: 22:40
giselher: isreal and austria only 1 hour difference?
Nevtus: 21:38
giselher: is real = israel
Nevtus: I guess my clock is a minute off
giselher: masterthenife: I think rbarris will never replay again to us :(
Nevtus: weird, I just noticed that my clock is off in awesome, yet correct in irssi (and the date command) :S
Nevtus: restarted Awesome WM and now it is correct again :|
Nevtus: or not. oh whatever
The_Muh: use conky =)
somename: openbox ftw
The_Muh: ♥ conky
Nevtus: I never see my "desktop" anymore, what's the point?
mastertheknife: giselher: yeah, possible.
The_Muh: maybe i have a scot on my server... moment
The_Muh: http://themuh.ath.cx/scrot.png
giselher: Oh no, got caught in the next discussion
giselher: Why does this always happen to me
giselher: I should keep my opinion for myself
The_Muh: dunno... close your browser and start playing penumbra or so..
giselher: The_Muh: Don't want to play it without AA, but with AA low FPS :(
Nevtus: The_Muh: seems to do the same job as my top bar in Awesome WM
The_Muh: giselher: what is "AA"=
The_Muh: *?
The_Muh: Nevtus: i like my conky =)
Nevtus: I used to have a really jazzed out conky in my ubuntu days :P
The_Muh: "jazzed out"?
The_Muh: what means this?
Nevtus: lots of system stuff, rss feeds, "now playing" music information, etc
RambJoe: valve took down the steam_client_linux? :(
Nevtus: The_Muh: I just meant I had lots of pointless info on it
The_Muh: ah... okay
The_Muh: i "use" my conky very often...
Nevtus: RambJoe: any idea when this happened, very recently?
RambJoe: dunno hadn't looked in a few days
Nevtus: I think people mentioned an update in here earlier, must have been in the past few hours
Nevtus: wait
Nevtus: it's still there
Nevtus: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux
RambJoe: oh :S
RambJoe: oh i know
RambJoe: if you add a slash on the end it doesn't work
giselher: The_Muh: Antialias
ModplanMan: postal 2 i funny. Offensive, but funny (played demo)
The_Muh: a demo of portal 2 =!
The_Muh: nice
ModplanMan: lol no, postal 2
The_Muh: oh... damn
The_Muh: my brain replaced the s
ModplanMan: http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/info.php?id=22&
Sleepy_Coder: XD
NigeyUK: Windows 3.1 has been ported to Google's Linux-based Android phone platform by developer Shawn McHenry using the DOSBox emulator.
NigeyUK: haha awsome
Kosava: here is some kind of petition to µTorrent be ported to linux so who want to support http://utorrentideas.uservoice.com/forums/47263-general/suggestions/701286-make-a-utorrent-for-linux?ref=title
Sleepy_Coder: bleh
Sleepy_Coder: actually uses enhanced ctorrent or rtorrent on Linux :3
Kosava: im vuze user but why not... µTorrent is still most lightweight torrent client with gui
Sleepy_Coder: Though I could see how tracking an rss torrent feed or scheduling and bandwidth capping would be desired from uTorrent
NigeyUK: brb
giselher: If someone replies with "Uhm, No", did I won the discussion?
The_Muh: giselher: yup
giselher: yay
ModplanMan: win what discussion?
giselher: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1269107
giselher: To be honest WINE is not an Emulator, but I hate it when people point out "WINE Is Not an Emulator, bla bla"
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sir_Brizz: I can see how someone could say it is an emulator
Sir_Brizz: it's a software abstraction emulator
Sir_Brizz: :p
giselher: lmao
Sir_Brizz: he even proves your point in #13
Sir_Brizz: An emulator recreates the entirety of a piece of hardware
giselher: like his definition wine is the same as libc
JEEB: just added another app into winedb as "fully works"
maligor: helloworld.exe?
JEEB: http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2590/ugokiyagaru.png
JEEB: Subarashiki Hibi :3
Sir_Brizz: I had to respond
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sir_Brizz: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14951098&postcount=17
giselher: JEEB: What the Fsck?
JEEB: A visual novel?
JEEB: Lots of literature references and bucketloads of text
JEEB: just what I love
giselher: Sir_Brizz: lol
giselher: In japanese?
maligor: doesn't wine implement windows api bugs also?
JEEB: giselher, yes
maligor: hence being a emulator and not a clean api implementation
giselher: maligor: also viruse
giselher: windows virus works with wine in linux
maligor: due to the linguistic definition of to emulate
giselher: some
giselher: JEEB: which time it is now in japan?
cmdrk: woohoo. just rescued a powermac 8600/300 out of the dumpster. i wonder how long it'll be before i decide that it actually belonged in the dumpster after all
JEEB: 6:25
JEEB: AM
Sir_Brizz: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14951155&postcount=19
Sir_Brizz: am I going to blow his mind?
giselher: JEEB: then good morning
giselher: Sir_Brizz: Lol
JEEB: giselher, I'm in Finland atm, otherwise I wouldn't be up right now ^^;
JEEB: But thanks
giselher: well, he is a Mac users, we can never change his opinion
giselher: JEEB: oh sorry
Sir_Brizz: hehehehe
Sir_Brizz: his mind is about to explode
giselher: steam is in fact, a tool of the devil to destroy the steam community from inside
cmdrk: anyone have any opinions as to what non-apple OS I should throw on this ancient powermac?
giselher: as it will be available for OS X, Linux and Windows
ModplanMan: steam for linux confirmed!
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sir_Brizz: < ModplanMan> steam for linux confirmed!
giselher: confirmed
ModplanMan: CONFIIIIIRRRMED!!!!!!1111111111111
cmdrk: confirmed!
giselher: cmdrk: Hurd
cmdrk: lol Hurd
JEEB: lol hurd
giselher: http://archhurd.org
JEEB: yah, saw that the other day
cmdrk: I actually wanted to get Arch/Hurd running in a VM the other day
cmdrk: i was impressed they got X to work
giselher: I got it working
giselher: was a sh*tload of work
giselher: I compiled over 100 packages
cmdrk: is that your screenshot on the page?
giselher: nope, It was submitted from a user
giselher: we don't have any artists yet
cmdrk: ahh ok
cmdrk: i tried debian hurd maybe 4-5 months ago and I didn't have much success. i'm not an Arch guy myself, but my friends are big into it. Definitely worth a shot now :D
JEEB: arch wasn't bad the last time I tried it. It just wasn't for me
giselher: Sir_Brizz: omg, rofl, WINE is green winged unicorn
Sir_Brizz: lol
giselher: pleas can we change the topic to "WINE is a green winged unicorn CONFIRMED"
giselher: I see a running gag comming
The_Muh: green winged unicorn?
The_Muh: wtf
cracker: steam for linux confirmed?
cracker: by whom?
The_Muh: cracker: by me -> www.steamonlinux.com
cracker: cool xD
giselher: The_Muh: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14951196&postcount=21
cmdrk: lol
cmdrk: Steam for Linux. Netcraft confirms it.
giselher: Sir_Brizz: You pwned him, hihi
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Sir_Brizz: I blew his mind
Gnurdux: blargh
Gnurdux: we need michaellarabel to explain why he posted that article
giselher: trafic, money?
sado1: got overexcited like everyone here?
ModplanMan: just because some of us jumped around and occasionally made out doesn't mean we got overexcited
Sleepy_Coder: hopes FlatOut 2 will be ported to Linux
giselher: hopes: Dragon Age and Mass Effect will be ported to Linux
Sir_Brizz: if Borderlands got ported to Linux it would be the end of days
Sleepy_Coder: Borderlands was fun but way too short.
Sleepy_Coder: :(
Sleepy_Coder: I was level 50 in 4 days.
Sir_Brizz: wut
Sleepy_Coder: But perhaps I am an overzealous gamer...
Sir_Brizz: I've spent about 150 hours on the game and I have a couple of Level 50 characters
Sir_Brizz: but one of them I powerleveled
Sleepy_Coder: powerleveled?
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sleepy_Coder: What's that?
Sir_Brizz: I joined a game with a level 50 guy
Sir_Brizz: you can get to level 35 in about 20 minutes
Sleepy_Coder: Oh heh
Sir_Brizz: the DLC for the game is okay
Sir_Brizz: the first two weren't worth the price
Sir_Brizz: but the third was
Sleepy_Coder: I didn't want to pay for it, so I didn't get it :(
Sir_Brizz: the third one is a good couple of hours at least
Sir_Brizz: was worth $10
Sleepy_Coder: I think I powerleveled from level 40?
Sleepy_Coder: I dunno, I didn't discover multiplayer until the end
Sleepy_Coder: XD
Sir_Brizz: co-op made Borderlands good
Sleepy_Coder: Game gave me so many migraines up to that
Sleepy_Coder: I almost passed out I played it so hard >.<
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sleepy_Coder: I didn't like the visual style, but I did like how it 'felt'..
Sleepy_Coder: Loved the sound...
Sir_Brizz: I love the visual style
Sleepy_Coder: SCREW YOU
Sir_Brizz: the game totally doesn't take itself seriously
Sir_Brizz: it's perfect
Sleepy_Coder: :p
Kame: The visual style in that game was great
Sir_Brizz: maybe Bulletstorm will have a Linux port
Sleepy_Coder: I was playing at framerates of around 28, so it wasn't bad... just hmm. Never did try it on my newer hardware, I might have to reinstall.
Sleepy_Coder: I dunno, I didn't like all the cell-shaded look because of the aliasing
Sir_Brizz: I don't really notice it
Sleepy_Coder: And then the ancient alien race's weapons were dumb as hell :(
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sleepy_Coder: Slowest firing in the game, if super powerful :(
Sir_Brizz: the Eridian weapons are crap
Sleepy_Coder: It made me mad.
Sleepy_Coder: I was a sniper though, the sniper rifles were awesome.
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sir_Brizz: the Volcanos are great
Sleepy_Coder: Can't remember what the snipe rclass was...
Sir_Brizz: I also have one that fires like a machine gun
Sir_Brizz: Hunter/Mordecai
Sleepy_Coder: I loved my rifle, I had 2 epic ones that either burned or slimed (acid)?
Sleepy_Coder: Maybe I will reinstall it later :P
Sleepy_Coder: :p*
Sleepy_Coder: You're making me excited.
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Sir_Brizz: it's an awesome game
Sir_Brizz: definitely one of the best games of the last decade
Sleepy_Coder: nou
Sleepy_Coder: I should get my Radeon 4350 back.
Sleepy_Coder: If I'm going to be running solely Linux when Steam is released, I won't need my GTX 260...
Sleepy_Coder: I miss the 4350, didn't even have a fan :(
Sleepy_Coder: It did a fantastic job.
Sir_Brizz: I like my nvidia in Linux :/
Sir_Brizz: ATI has a bad driver
Sir_Brizz: I was using Linux almost exclusively when I got my Radeon 9800Pro
Sir_Brizz: it was almost unusable
Sleepy_Coder: The only thing I couldn't do when I was running ATi was launch the X server twice. I had to remove some temporary file in /etc/ati/...whatever and then I could :>
Sleepy_Coder: It's gotten a *lot* better :3
Sir_Brizz: yeah I've seen it's better
Sir_Brizz: but nVidia has a really nice working driver
Sleepy_Coder: And so does ATi :p
Sleepy_Coder: prepares to man the harpoons
Sleepy_Coder: I actually want Lost Planet 2 on Linux, also
Sleepy_Coder: That game was so underrated, imo.
Sleepy_Coder: Gameplay looks very fun.
ModplanMan: have they been suggested in the porting thread?
Sleepy_Coder: doesn't know which porting thread you're referring to :3
Sleepy_Coder: It's not put out by Valve..
ModplanMan: don't mean that
ModplanMan: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17492
Gnurdux: so does anyone have any idea why it is supposedly "official"/
ModplanMan: the telegraph reported it as so, and have claimed their info came directly from valve
ModplanMan: along side valve not denying it, and the half working client already found...
tkmorris: http://www.mrbigshot.com/
ModplanMan: the FSF have gotten into gambling?
tkmorris: lol
Sleepy_Coder: nice :o
Sleepy_Coder: ModplanMan: Lot of games i didn't know about :o
giselher: Sir_Brizz: The thread opener replied :)
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Sir_Brizz: eat that mixio
Sir_Brizz: mixvio
Sir_Brizz: whatever
ModplanMan: Sleepy_Coder may be worth it to at least suggest something in the thread
ModplanMan: you'll probs get a reply as to how feasible it would be
giselher: Steam on Linux Confirmed: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14951457&postcount=856
ModplanMan: wasn't that found before? though for the steam client itself
giselher: OpenGL 2.1 with nearly all OGL 3 features is used for the mac ports
Nevtus: giselher: the shell script conditional was one of the first things found quite a while back in the beta mac client
d2kx: http://cl.ly/15Yu
d2kx: i dont think i need to comment this
tkmorris: oh
tkmorris: "HL2" . sh
Sleepy_Coder: mac os x keeps getting sexier
d2kx: yeah it checks for linux when you start portal with the mac client
tkmorris: now that's a confirmation xD
Nevtus: dhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=steam_linux_script&num=1
Nevtus: already reported a while ago
NeoSageX: steam + linux....oh shit I just woke up
d2kx: Nevtus what you posted is a check when you start the steam client, not an actual game
NeoSageX: my dream came true :3
d2kx: well if youre not insane you must agree steam is coming to linux this year. the naysayers will keep their opinion forever
tkmorris: if it's inclued in this update already
d2kx: also someone asked the telegrapher about the source of their news article about steam coming to linux and they confirmed they indeed have been told by valve directly and didnt use any rumours on the internet
d2kx: but we all our conspiracy theorists
d2kx: +know
giselher: Steam will come for linux, but when?
Nevtus: if your talking about me I was just pointing out that similar news had already been reported. I'm fairly convinced Steam IS coming to linux at some point
Nevtus: *you're
d2kx: i wasnt talking about you but about the "steam is not coming to linux because its not in the steam blog today" group
Sleepy_Coder: I'll laugh when Valve officially announces Steam for Linux, Steam is released for Linux, we're all playing Portal, and a select few will still say it's a myth :p
tkmorris: or that it was made with wine.h
d2kx: giselher: let them stabilize and finish the mac stuff first which will take a month or so, then they will start talking more about linux. this doesnt mean they dont already work on it
giselher: I found already a way to spend my free time till the release of the linux client
d2kx: Sleepy_Coder: they will argue it is related to the death of Hans Reiser's wife and the Linux saboteurs
giselher: d2kx: wut?
d2kx: giselher: theyre now closed, but phoronix had some amazing conspiracy theorists on its forums, you wouldnt believe the stuff :X
Sleepy_Coder: :D
d2kx: 10 page long analysis on why hans reiser has not killed his wife and how he is going to prison because people dont want linux to become popular etc
Sleepy_Coder: Sir_Brizz: I want a Red Faction Guerilla for Linux :p
Sleepy_Coder: The destruction in that game was mouth-watering.
Sleepy_Coder: But it's a Game for Windows Live, so sadface :(
d2kx: Games for Windows Live = biggest pile of crap ever. Ever. EVER.
NeoSageX: I want a standalone game that isn't total bull released for linux first than other os's
Sleepy_Coder: So true.
d2kx: when GTA4 was out, boy you had to be HARDCORE to get the game running, and dont get me talking about getting the multiplayer to work
The_Muh: maybe portal 2 cames first for mac and linux
The_Muh: *g*
Sleepy_Coder: :D
mastertheknife: heh.. rbarris seems nice
NeoSageX: oh
d2kx: it wont happen but release at the same time is a great step already
mastertheknife: he answered my question
Nevtus: The_Muh: never
NeoSageX: steam has more power than ever now
The_Muh: mastertheknife: what did you ask
Nevtus: it'll be the same day
Nevtus: :)
NeoSageX: it has market power now
The_Muh: Nevtus: let my hope!!
The_Muh: *me
mastertheknife: The_Muh: what OpenGL version is used in the mac port
The_Muh: mastertheknife: 2.1?
d2kx: 2.1/3.0 i think because apple doesnt support more just yet but will soon
voidpointer03: hi - can anybody give me information on how i can modify my linux steam binaries so that it doesn't crash on logging in? i only see a flickering login dialog or a SIGSEGV on using the commandline login...
RambJoe: http://cl.ly/15Yu just saw that on steam form
d2kx: i posted it 20mins ago RambJoe
RambJoe: oh
giselher: voidpointer03: The offset of the binary changed you need the files from last weekend
giselher: picking on random people really makes me tired, see ya
mastertheknife: The_Muh: 2.1 with some 3.0 extensions
mastertheknife: The_Muh: because current version of OS X doesn't have support for newer than 2.1
mastertheknife: The_Muh: but 2.1 can be used with some 3.0 extensions
mastertheknife: The_Muh: It will probably take light years until OpenGL 4.0 will be supported lol
mastertheknife: OpenGL 4.0 was released 2 months ago, set to compete with dx11/dx12
The_Muh: light years != chronological
Sleepy_Coder: GAMEROOT=$(cd "${0%/*}" && echo $PWD) # >.>
Sleepy_Coder: Looks like a lot of silliness :p
Sleepy_Coder: I guess by cd'ing they're making sure it exists?
Sleepy_Coder: But they don't catch anything if it fails..
Sleepy_Coder: oh well 0 is the script itself, so nvm.
Sleepy_Coder: Just looks odd. :\
Sleepy_Coder: I wish Windows and Linux applications were more self-contained like Mac OS X :(
Sleepy_Coder: I sort of like that.
The_Muh: becomes depressive - damn women
Sleepy_Coder: I mean, it'd be cool if standard libraries were in their original place, but things like libsdl and such, I wish they were segregated from standard libraries, and I wish it were conventionally acceptable to have some libraries housed in the same directories as the executable ... to be self-contained like Mac OS X's.. would be nice :<
Sleepy_Coder: Think I'm rambling :p
The_Muh: hm...
Sleepy_Coder: Just seems like that if you want to do anything "right" on Linux, you should link against shared libraries, etc...
Sleepy_Coder: But I wish it were a mix, especially if we're going to be having more commercial software on Linux..
The_Muh: linux != windows, right?
Sleepy_Coder: oh you :p
The_Muh: and you should read what "unixoid" means =)
The_Muh: and ... maybe try arch and learn more about "KISS"
Sleepy_Coder: ... I use Arch.
Sleepy_Coder: Bleh, code reuse isn't always good. :p
Sleepy_Coder: Linking just because that's what is assumed to be the best practice is meh :<
Sleepy_Coder: And library pollution is icky.
Sleepy_Coder: Commercial software, especially, needs to keep specific versions of most libraries around. Like ut2004 and libsdl 1.2?
Sleepy_Coder: Not saying it's bad to link in libraries all the time, just don't like the concensus that everyone thinks it's always a good thing.
Sleepy_Coder: er... think I'm a bit redundant XD
The_Muh: you aren't "kiss"
The_Muh: right
Sleepy_Coder: Keeping it simple is perspective-bound. :p
d2kx: mastertheknife
d2kx: new steam_linux and bins_linux updates again
mastertheknife: d2kx: interesting, thanks
d2kx: new steamclient.so only, again :(
mastertheknife: yeah
d2kx: and steam_linux only new script steam.sh, dont know what changed
mastertheknife: heh.
The_Muh: d2kx: use diff
The_Muh: d2kx: anything working now?
d2kx: well its not worth trying without real changes in the libraries
d2kx: steamclient.so is not important afaik
The_Muh: hm
The_Muh: gn8 folks
d2kx: gm8
zak1111: where do you find these linux steam script updates?
Sleepy_Coder: zak1111: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux they just watch the checksums on each of the files for changes
Sleepy_Coder: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/public_all.zip.ecf7099c90e8936a7247f4289eddb2bde9dfc450 etc...
bluekoala: Any development on steam?
rsk: not oficially
strace: unofficially, the steamui.so still
bluekoala: Cool
zak1111: i can't wait
bluekoala: :)
bluekoala: Neither can I
bluekoala: So I think I'll go out drinking
bluekoala: :P
strace: i can wait..
bluekoala: I could wait if I didn't have 150+ titles on steam
strace: i only have like 50 :/
bluekoala: It's still a lot
bluekoala: You'll probably have at least 5 you can play on Linux as of launch
bluekoala: If you have any source games
strace: source games, umm HL2, EP1, EP2, Portal, TF2, L4D, CSS, DODS
strace: (i think that is it)
bluekoala: That's 8
bluekoala: You have world of goo on there?
strace: no, got that in the humble bundle
bluekoala: Just as good
bluekoala: Actually, better cause you can play it right now
bluekoala: :P
strace: :D
strace: and gish! :D
bluekoala: lol
bluekoala: I own both on steam and from huble
strace: (i like gish better then World of Goo :3)
bluekoala: *humble
strace: dude, the humble made over 1mill o_O
bluekoala: I didn't have patience for gish
bluekoala: How long was it up for?
strace: a little over a week
strace: maybe 2?
bluekoala: linux users gave an average of close to 15$
bluekoala: Which is what I donated
strace: more then Mac and Windows o_O
bluekoala: I think it was great for stats though
bluekoala: Windows users are cheap
bluekoala: Hence all the pirated versions of windows
strace: yeah
bluekoala: There's hardly any pirated versions of linux
Nevtus: I'm not a fan of Mac but I am of OpenGL, posts like this piss me off - http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14954024&postcount=14
bluekoala: But the comparison isn't exactly fair either
strace: holy effing shit! someone gave $3333.33
bluekoala: Accidental extra 3? :P
bluekoala: Or just wanted to see games open source
bluekoala: I'd love to see those in the Ubuntu universe
strace: won't happen
Nevtus: the game assets aren't open source
bluekoala: Why not?
strace: media won't be free
strace: (think quake engine)
Nevtus: it's like the Quake model
bluekoala: Oh
bluekoala: Ah
Nevtus: the engine is open but the game isn't
bluekoala: That still opens a lot of doors
strace: yep
strace: OpenGish!
bluekoala: If someone tackles an engine as a game project and makes something half decent, I'll check it out
Nevtus: the Penumbra engine has potental
Nevtus: I've yet to get it to build yet though
Nevtus: I've also yet to play through the Penumbra Collection that I picked up during the Humble Bundle, damn exams
strace: (about steamui.so, it is weird, strace shows it loading it just fine, steam then loads libtier0_s and libvstdlib_s.so after steamui then crashes with the steamui error O_o)
bluekoala: I tried Penumbra for about 30 mins
bluekoala: It's quite good
bluekoala: There's some "cheapness" to it though, but very forgiveable
Nevtus: it's like a modern Myst crossed with the horror genre
bluekoala: It's like myst
bluekoala: Except not boring
Nevtus: the menus look a little cheap but you only see them when you start it up
Nevtus: the puzzles so far have been quite logical yet still not too obvious
Nevtus: it's hard to get that mix right
bluekoala: They seem to have gotten it
bluekoala: I got raped by a wolf
bluekoala: And then I stopped soon after
Nevtus: I hate those damn wolves
bluekoala: Did you see any other creatures?
Nevtus: I've only seen wolves but I know at least one future enemy which a review spoiled for me in a screenshot
bluekoala: Have you managed to kill any?
bluekoala: They look like they're not natural wolves
bluekoala: Possessed + infected with zombie virus
Nevtus: I had a few swings at a wolf with a pick axe and it seemed like you could kill them
Nevtus: but them it killed me
Nevtus: *then
LinuxDonald: http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/05/penumbra-overture-goes-open-source.html
strace: ep
strace: yep*
strace: World of Goo is the only one that has said it isn't going open source
gitano: smells the Valve linux love
gitano: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1269214
kurros: is that a Glade Plug-in scent
kurros: interesting
gitano: yep :)
gitano: these switches always came handy when using steam through wine
gitano: no idea why they left 'em out in the mac release
gitano: but fixed now/ soon, anyways :)
gitano: could smell some use here if it ever comes to a linux release
Sir_Gallantmon: well...
Sir_Gallantmon: the open source Lugaru now works on Windows
Sir_Gallantmon: and Linux
Sir_Gallantmon: and Mac
Sir_Gallantmon: how well on Windows? Can't say
bluekoala: MS will have to open source Direct X sooner or later I think
bluekoala: 7 years
bluekoala: My crystal ball tells me
gitano: :p
gitano: if they got balls, they would, aye
gitano: but let's dream on, heh
bluekoala: They have no reason to do it now
bluekoala: They're still fighting the fight
bluekoala: But if OpenGL goes really popular again
kurros: 7 years?
bluekoala: And DX for wine gets almost to parity
bluekoala: Then they'd have no reason to fight anymore
bluekoala: And focus on other fronts
gitano: well, if my kids can play dx stuff on linux/ mac, i'd be fine
bluekoala: Right
gitano: or maybe my gradnchildren
gitano: does not expect either :p
bluekoala: I think the client server model is great
bluekoala: But we should all keep our servers
bluekoala: The could is eveil D=
bluekoala: *cloud ** evil
bluekoala: Now I know of a good cloud
bluekoala: Point cloud
bluekoala: I wonder how that's doing
gitano: prefes the green cloud
rsk: "It's Official: Valve Releasing Steam, Source Engine For Linux!"
bluekoala: Source?
rsk: "It's Official: Valve Releasing Steam, Source Engine For Linux!"
rsk: phoronix
rsk: er
rsk: "An announcement from Valve itself is imminent."
rsk: why be so clueless?
bluekoala: I was wondering if valve publicly announced themselves
bluekoala: Instead of Phoronix
gitano: rsk: phoronix aint no source :p
bluekoala: Valve can turn around right now and say FU; STFU!
rsk: gitano _everything_ is a source
rsk: bluekoala they can
bluekoala: But if they say it publicly themselves, then I hold them morally accountable :P
gitano: true that :D
gitano: phoronix is just a bushdrum, still
gitano: nothing wrong with that, as it at least stirrs up a few tribes, heh
rsk: so be wrong just because it's trolling
rsk: great attitude :)
bluekoala: It's legit
bluekoala: Hence the steam client
rsk: what steam client
bluekoala: And a lot of other things
bluekoala: The linux one
rsk: where can i get it
rsk: and verify it will be done by valve
rsk: in a certain ammount of time
bluekoala: You can fuzz arount on a public server somewhere
rsk: else = false article
gitano: wouldn't be the first ;)
bluekoala: None of the valve related ones have been false so far
rsk: so
bluekoala: It's your judgement
bluekoala: I already have my opinion
rsk: yep it's an opinion
bluekoala: And it's not wrong
rsk: why isnt it wrong
rsk: when it can be proven wrong with logic
bluekoala: Because there's no fact to say otherwise
rsk: right
rsk: so you bring religion into the debate
bluekoala: Troll
gitano: fact is, we're stil waiting :p
rsk: finally someone not ingnorant
bluekoala: I'll ignore that last comment ;p
gitano: and another fact: steam on mac is alive and kicking
rsk: gitano you could have it running on openBSD it's still not out for linux.
bluekoala: And another one: pre-alpha linux client is also alive and kicking
gitano: my personal opinion? yes, it will come. sooner or later. considering that theyre already working on it and seem to have some able folx on it (see posts above) :)
gitano: rsk: true that. though openBSD would be cool indeed :)
zak1111: they've already got opengl ports for their source engine. Why WOULDN'T they want money from linux users as well as mac users when the majority of the work is already done? all they have to do is port their little steam client. It's going to happen.
rsk: all just theoryes
rsk: theories
rsk: untill it's out and official
gitano: ya
zak1111: you just like shitting on people's dreams lol
bluekoala: zak1111: I think steam itself is the tricky part; I wouldn't be surprised if there's delays
rsk: i just done like lies
rsk: that are blatanbt
zak1111: oh don't get me wrong, i expect delays, after all it is valve haha
rsk: eh delay
rsk: so there's a date?
rsk: please people
rsk: :)
gitano: well, valve is not epic, after all :)
zak1111: no, but when they give a date, i doubt they'll meet it
zak1111: this is true
rsk: when they give a date?
zak1111: nor are they blizzard
rsk: where is this info coming from
bluekoala: If michaellarabel knows a reliable source and I trust his judgement of a reliable source, then that gives him credibility in my view; which shapes my opinion
gitano: (valve is valve + tons of other developers)
zak1111: rsk, there's no info, youre criticizing everything anybody says when they're not even saying anything
bluekoala: Simple as that
bluekoala: rsk: apparently end of summer
rsk: where can i read that from valve?
bluekoala: rsk: nowhere
rsk: ok so
bluekoala: ...
bluekoala: ?
rsk: it says nowhere it's out by the end of summer
rsk: someone makes it up
rsk: = it's true?
zak1111: xD
gitano: zak1111: nah, he's just excited as we all are ;)
zak1111: haha
zak1111: true dat
bluekoala: rsk: No, but you can still choose to believe it if you want
rsk: sure i can belive UT3 will come to linux
rsk: but it won't change anything
bluekoala: Oh
bluekoala: I'm glad you went there
gitano: uh
gitano: i am not
gitano: :P
bluekoala: EPIC did say they were releasing it a certain day
zak1111: aw i had given up on that
bluekoala: But then they didn't
zak1111: any more news?
bluekoala: zak1111: I can only hope it comes with the steam client or shortly after
gitano: note: never spell the three characters beginning with U and ending with 3, here
zak1111: i don't want to begin to try and get that rediculous thing working in wine haha
bluekoala: zak1111: Other then that I will probably give up on it forever
rsk: althou it's pretty amasing
zak1111: yeah, as soon as steam is released for linux i'm trashing windows for good, so unless ut3 comes eventually i'll never play it again
rsk: how such a crap peice of software is being so popular to get ported
rsk: it's not like steam does anything amazing
zak1111: i hated steam when i first got it lol
zak1111: i had to have it for the orange box though
gitano: smells ut3 will never come for other platforms anytime
bluekoala: I didn't mind steam after it was more stable
zak1111: probably not, they're probably workin on the next big thing now
gitano: as it was a major fail itself
gitano: but... give us the bloody ue3 engine, damnit!11
bluekoala: zak1111: They already have it
zak1111: really?
zak1111: i haven't been following the unreal series since i stopped playing ut3
gitano: anyone remembers these news? http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=139347
rsk: yea and it's probably proven with a scientific experiment
rsk: =)
gitano: damn, that made my day, 6 years ago
gitano: and now, where the heck is it
zak1111: under a layer of dust
zak1111: forgotten
gitano: :/
gitano: see, what i meant? never mention ut3 in this channel :D
Sleepy_Coder: I just hope that even if there is a secret UT3 Steam release on Linux, icculus will still release a standalone installer for those of us who don't want to run Steam.
Sleepy_Coder: I will be, but I would prefer to keep UT3 separate. :\
zak1111: anyone know where i can find the dependencies for compiling penumbra overture?
gitano: is depressed now
gitano: :p
gitano: well, maybe better to learn the source sdk now, heh
gitano: is excited if that one will make it to mac/linux
zak1111: damn there's wayyy too much to compile for penumbra overture, guess i'm giving up
zeroedout: remember when icculus said there was a really stupid reason for the delay and it was working fine. We just wouldn't belive the reason. Think they were waiting for steam?
gitano: zak1111: take ya time :)
zak1111: i can't figure out how to compile glee and it's not in the repos :/
zak1111: because i need to compile the engine seperately from the game, and i need to compile glee to compile the engine, haha
gitano: zak1111: ya, i personally liked the idea of the internal hdd crash/ data loss :p
zak1111: hahaha
Gnurdux: bluekoala, "none of the valve related ones have been false so far"
gitano: zeroedout, i meant to yell at :p
Gnurdux: wasn't steam supposed to be released for linux "soon" in like 2008?
bluekoala: Which one?
Gnurdux: i guess you can say it is "soon" but in that case i'm a bit worried about "imminent"
bluekoala: Soon is relative
bluekoala: If soon is 2 years
bluekoala: IUmminent must be 6 months :P
zak1111: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
zak1111: valve time
Gnurdux: bluekoala, anyway we certainly don't really have confirmation of steam or source for linux, other than some sort of development build that may or may not ever be released
Gnurdux: i would think that if it wasnt going to be released valve would take it down
Gnurdux: but can't be certain
gitano: aaanyways
bluekoala: I am lead to believe that it has been confirmed to michaellarabel from the article
Gnurdux: i think so too
Gnurdux: but he hasn't said or posted any clarification since then
gitano: all thsi fuss about steam srsly spoiled my sleeping rythmn
bluekoala: But the point of you arguing this in the first place is moot
Gnurdux: anyway, one thing that makes me a little pessimistic
Gnurdux: in the free portal thing
gitano: have fun spekulating, cya's
gitano: :p
Gnurdux: valve says ""I have a reason," some of you are probably typing into an angry email. "You see, sir, I own a Mac.""
DonScott: what's the news on steam ? is it still gonna be a new wine specifically for steam ?
Gnurdux: DonScott, no, it never was
DonScott: so we were mislead this morning then ?
bluekoala: The point of having it native is to eliminate wine from the equasion
Gnurdux: first of all afaik that was Source, not Steam
Gnurdux: second of all, it's not a "new wine"
Gnurdux: there was talk that perhaps internally it was done in a wine-like manne
DonScott: yeah
Gnurdux: building DX on top of OpenGL
DonScott: soooo....they won't be doing that ?
zak1111: I've been wondering this for wayyyy too long, what does one do in linux if a full screen program freezes (besides ctrl alt backspace)
DonScott: no idea
zak1111: hm
Gnurdux: DonScott, looking at the forum thread it doesn't seem rbarris clarified
Gnurdux: zak1111, what i do is ctrl-alt-f1, login to console, kill the program
Gnurdux: unfortunately the mouse is often stuck after this necessitating killing the X server anyway
zak1111: i read something about an xorg.conf option ctrl alt * that kills the program that has grabbed the keyboard/mouse, i'm looking into it now
bluekoala: That would be very useful
Gnurdux: yes it would
zak1111: Option "AllowClosedownGrabs" "boolean"
zak1111: This option enables the use of the Ctrl+Alt+Keypad-Multiply key sequence to kill clients with an active keyboard or mouse grab as well as killing any application that may have locked the server, normally using the XGrabServer(3x) Xlib function. Default: off.
zak1111: time to go turn that on
zak1111: it goes in the serverflags section
Gnurdux: does it also release the grab?
zak1111: Option "AllowDeactivateGrabs" "boolean"
zak1111: This option enables the use of the Ctrl+Alt+Keypad-Divide key sequence to deactivate any active keyboard and mouse grabs. Default: off.
zak1111: here's the whole shebang: http://www.x.org/archive/X11R6.8.0/doc/xorg.conf.5.html
zak1111: also there's a coolbits option :D
zak1111: oh nevermind i'm getting myself confused
zak1111: that's for the nvidia config file
zak1111: I'll be back, time to restart X and give this a shot
bluekoala: I vote for that feature to be deafult: on
DonScott: yeah ...that would be a lot better than hitting the power switch
DonScott: whih is really bad
zak1111: haha yeah
DonScott: *which
bluekoala: And it's not like anyone ever hits ctrl-alt-* from numpad by accident
bluekoala: Unless that's the desired result
DonScott: yeah
bluekoala: I tried ctrl-alt-all sorts of keys many times
bluekoala: Until I learned about ctrl-alt-f1 and ps aux
zak1111: i tried reisub alot, never was able to get it to work
bluekoala: Is that the elephant code?
zak1111: yup
bluekoala: I just remember elephant
zak1111: haha
bluekoala: I never actualy tried it
bluekoala: mmmmmm booooobs
zak1111: aw yes i got my gpu to overclock!
zak1111: mmmmm clock cycles
bluekoala: There's a chick that works at a store 50 feet from my desk
bluekoala: And she has humoungous boobs
bluekoala: Me and a colleague use a code phrase when she's there: "Milk is on sale today"
bluekoala: Yes, clock cycles are good
bluekoala: Even more so when you don't have enough
zak1111: lol
zak1111: hm ctrl alt * doesn't seem to be working
zak1111: i put this at the end
zak1111: Section "Serverflags"
zak1111: Option "AllowClosedownGrabs" "True"
zak1111: EndSection
zak1111: does that look right?
bluekoala: I couldn't tell you
bluekoala: But logically yes
bluekoala: Compare it to other strings if there are any
zak1111: it looks like it should work, i'm googling
bluekoala: Try a 3d game
bluekoala: Or a vm
zak1111: thats what i did
bluekoala: =/
zak1111: i'll try capitalizing the 'f' in Serverflags and see if that does it
bluekoala: Good eye
zak1111: and if that doesn't work i'll try "1" instead of "True"
jumbers: Changing my network's subnet, exciting
bluekoala: ooooOOOOOoooo
zak1111: no luck
zak1111: and i had to disconnect from #idleRPG twice for that, lol
bluekoala: Do people gets kicked for not idling in idleRPG?
bluekoala: Because they're out of character?
zak1111: no, you get time added until you level up next
zak1111: though if you talk to much i think you can get kicked
bluekoala: lol
zak1111: and if you get kicked they add a bunch of time haha
zak1111: *too
bluekoala: I should log on with the VPS,, it has an uptime of years
bluekoala: Cool
bluekoala: So if you're on the akick list you can lvl up really fast :P
zak1111: haha
bluekoala: My dinner tonight is curd cheese and peperoni
bluekoala: And my roomate is now manking lasagna; with curd cheese and pepperoni
zak1111: is away: movie
jelso: steam confirmed?
Wicked: no
Wicked: not from valve at least
jelso: they're not exactly denying it, however
jelso: so I guess, at least, they're leaving their options open
Wicked: nope
Wicked: my guess...not that it matters...is they are toying with the idea. even gone so far as to start some work on it.
Wicked: but could turn out to be more work then what they want....or they cannot get the quality levels they want without serious effort.
Wicked: i certainly do hope it happens though :)
zak1111: is back (gone 00:59:03)
Sir_Brizz: http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9441/myb.gif