# Phoronix IRC Log: 2010-05-09

rsk: xorl lemme show you something funny
mastertheknife: im bored
mastertheknife: lol
bluekoala: Funny thing just happened
bluekoala: Screen saver was on on the guest machine
bluekoala: Logged into it
bluekoala: My screen turns black
bluekoala: For my host machine
bluekoala: Let's see if lfs goes better with a few drinks in the tummy
mastertheknife: hey bluekoala :)
bluekoala: Hiya!
mastertheknife: bluekoala: have you seen the recent progress with steam
bluekoala: How's it going?
bluekoala: No
bluekoala: Library tab?
mastertheknife: bluekoala: Apparently under gnome and compiz on, there is no flicker and the UI responds to mouse input, its possible to click on things, move windows, etc
bluekoala: You think steam might require compiz???
mastertheknife: no i just think they coded on a ubuntu machine with compiz on
mastertheknife: :P
bluekoala: lol
mastertheknife: or something like that
mastertheknife: fonts fail to load though
bluekoala: I wouldn't be surprised if steam required compiz
bluekoala: It does use compositing for overlay; right?
bluekoala: Interesting note, steam browser on windows gets 100 on acid3
bluekoala: According to wiki
mastertheknife: compositing will be required i believe
rsk: then it's probably using webkit, right?
bluekoala: Indeed
bluekoala: I find it amusing that IE is struggling so hard and valve has it
bluekoala: It really shows the shortcomings of a monopolistic company vs the world
Azerthoth|D: and to think, if they would just accept sharing the code for just certain areas, they could use all the GPL'd software in the world and there isnt anything anyone could do about it
bluekoala: I'm sure it's goinbg to come to that point
bluekoala: Windows has been resembling unix more and more over the decades
rsk: and likewise with linux
rsk: :)
bluekoala: True
bluekoala: But MS didn't invent the gui
rsk: prepare for the merge
xorl: that's true, bluekoala answer me who did haha
bluekoala: Could be xerox
bluekoala: But I somehow doubt it
bluekoala: The idea probably came from somewhere else
rsk: the mouse and the gui, the 2 most important inventions imo
bluekoala: Trackball
bluekoala: I went to school in Ontario
bluekoala: We had computers running QNX
bluekoala: Called "unisys"
bluekoala: QNX is now user is cisco CRS-3 switches
bluekoala: I played a robot development game on that OS
bluekoala: It was awesome
rsk: kind of like linux games today
rsk: =)
bluekoala: I don't code :(
mastertheknife: Microsoft is a monopoly that has to fall to crater
bluekoala: I think I've been doing it wrong
bluekoala: I should just focus on learning to be able to read code
mastertheknife: they had monopoly with IE, with windows and with directX
bluekoala: Before I try to write it
mastertheknife: bluekoala: C is my favorite language and its pretty simple
mastertheknife: bluekoala: you can find many C tutorials in google
mastertheknife: bluekoala: and maybe at later stage also learn C++ (its much easier once you know C)
rsk: C++ is evil
rsk: it was written as a joke
mastertheknife: I think C++ should only be used in moderate to big programs
mastertheknife: I hate when people use OOP in a <200 lines program
mastertheknife: so useless
Azerthoth|D: hey I still have computers running qnx
mastertheknife: and bloated
Azerthoth|D: mind you I want to take an axe to them
bluekoala: What are they?
bluekoala: Unisys?
mastertheknife: rsk: you agree? :P
Azerthoth|D: custom jobies, they run weather systems
bluekoala: Cool
mastertheknife: rsk: C++ is nice and save some code but only in big programs.. otherwise useless imo, in windows many times i coded my code as C++ just for the const and better type checking, although my code was C
Azerthoth|D: Nexrad's are more interesting, they atleast run on Redhat
rsk: no i see no use for C++
bluekoala: If I had the patience for it, I'd learn assenbly, c, c++, php and so on
bluekoala: I haven't come to a point yet where I actually need it for my career
mastertheknife: bluekoala: its better to learn C before C++ because then you some differences
mastertheknife: it never hurts knowning just as a hobby etc
mastertheknife: I know Perl, PHP, C, C++ and some assembly
mastertheknife: and some pascal too
xorl: well
xorl: I still call C++ C99
xorl: without a proper context of one, you'll fuck yourself over down the road
xorl: Like my co-worker steve likes to re-write shit in C99 in regular C, fucks up programs all the time
mastertheknife: C99 is a nice update to C
xorl: C99 is essentially C++
xorl: same constructs :)
mastertheknife: for some reason i dont have any sound in flash now
mastertheknife: both in opera and firefox
xorl: weird
mastertheknife: closed them like 10 timesn ow
bluekoala: Oddly enough, flash works better on ubuntu than it did on windows with this hardware
bluekoala: Windows the picture kept freezing in fullscreen
rsk: steve is such an awesome name
bluekoala: I guess so if your name is Steve
rsk: it isn't
rsk: unlucky!
mastertheknife: Steve ballmer
mastertheknife: ? :P
bluekoala: Why do you envy the name Steve?
bluekoala: Steve Jobs?
rsk: it sounds baller
rsk: jobs dosen't
xorl: Steve Handjobs?
xorl: yeah.
bluekoala: Steve Balljobs?
xorl: I hate the man, but love his products haha, well, somewhat
bluekoala: Jobs is a psychopath
bluekoala: Plain and simple
rsk: you _love_ apple products?
rsk: wow
bluekoala: He comes up with great stuff
bluekoala: If you accept to join his shiny concentration camp
rsk: he does shit that's already done
xorl: rsk, now that I can truely dual boot with grub on a mac
xorl: I am back to normal
rsk: and markets it
rsk: nothing special
bluekoala: I have an ppc Imac in my bedroom
bluekoala: Been meaning to put suse on there
rsk: i have a mac i found in the thrash
bluekoala: I did almost successfully
bluekoala: Intil I powered off
bluekoala: Damnit, I even got wireless working
bluekoala: I made a /boot partition in apple's stuf fs
mastertheknife: xorl: hey if you work in the IT industry (sysop?) you'll like this video, its long but hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_Kfjo3VjU
bluekoala: *stuf=stupid
bluekoala: I've done a few things in IT
bluekoala: Yeah saw that
bluekoala: lol
bluekoala: I love it
bluekoala: I got the IT guy's job
bluekoala: My previous job
bluekoala: at HP
bluekoala: Now I work in telecom
xorl: bahhahahaha
bluekoala: Gmod idiot box if you never seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2eUUHkpvQA&feature=PlayList&p=F41B4E15D5443537&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1
xorl: that shits hilarious
bluekoala: Ever watched the IT crowd?
bluekoala: or was that IT crew?
xorl: "hold on i'm taking a picture of this"
mastertheknife: xorl: you can't arrange them by penis :P
mastertheknife: sigh brb quick reboot to get sound back alsa messed up
xorl: hahaha
xorl: my friend just called me
xorl: "So I cracked a bottle of scotch, my wife pours me a glass and puts crushed ice in it, I thought 'oh what the hell', i took a sip and literally vomited it tasted like rabid vagina'
andar: yum
xorl: haha
xorl: tap water crushed ice + good scotch == taste like ass
andar: that's a bit odd
andar: it might help shitty scotch out
andar: makes me want to pour myself a scotch :D
mastertheknife: lol those steve ballmer videos kill me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8M6S8EKbnU&feature=related
bluekoala: I have a lot of scotch
bluekoala: But I can't drink the stuff
bluekoala: Unless I mix it with drambuei
xorl: O_o
xorl: you mix scotch?
xorl: that's a sacrilege
andar: yea
andar: it really should only be mixed with water if anything
xorl: and only distilled water at that
bluekoala: I never tried it with water
bluekoala: I'm guessing that's what it's supposed to be mixed with
bluekoala: To kill bacteria from water
xorl: haha
bluekoala: "largely for medicinal purposes, such as the treatment of colic, palsy, and smallpox."
bluekoala: I guess it never was for the treatment of water
asciiwolf: hello
mastertheknife: hey
mastertheknife: hey asciiwolf
asciiwolf: hello
mastertheknife: asciiwolf: apparently through gnome with compiz on there is no flicker and it responds to mouse input.. can move windows, click on stuff, etc
asciiwolf: ye :)
asciiwolf: I know, I have compiz :)
mastertheknife: nice :)
asciiwolf: but i though it also works ok without compiz O.o
mastertheknife: it should i think
espes: mastertheknife: hey
espes: anything new?
xorl: mastertheknife, yeah works WITHOUT compiz but flickers like the dickens
espes: http://imgur.com/iUkER.png
espes: the game browser, kinda
mastertheknife: hey espes
espes: mastertheknife: anything new?
mastertheknife: no not really i didnt try anything yet
mastertheknife: but i plan on checking the fonts stuff again
espes: mastertheknife: they all seem to load fine :\
espes: (at least with them installed)
mastertheknife: espes: I found what causes the segfault
espes: mastertheknife: ?
mastertheknife: espes: GetFont() returns NULL
espes: mastertheknife: which getfont?
mastertheknife: It was yesterday i dont remember.. one sec
mastertheknife: i dont even remember where was it
espes: CFontAmalgam::GetFontForChar returns null, fron what I foun
espes: from what I found*
mastertheknife: no not that one
mastertheknife: espes: vgui::TextImage::GetFont()
mastertheknife: the NULL it gets from this gets passed on and on until CLinuxFont::GetTextSize and crashes there
mastertheknife: or something else
mastertheknife: but anyway i dont think it should return NULL
espes: mastertheknife: the font passed to GetTextSize comes from GetFontForChar
espes: but it might be further down the chain when loading stuff
asciiwolf: I got new window!
asciiwolf: maybe some steam survey...
mastertheknife: espes: depends where, on where i backtraced, vgui::TextImage::something->CBaseSurface::GetTextSize->CFontManager::GetTextSize()->CLinuxFont::GetTextSize(float version)->CLinuxFont::GetTextSize(int version)
asciiwolf: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3571/steam7.png look :)
mastertheknife: yeah thats probably the survery
mastertheknife: brb
espes: mastertheknife: nothing seems to use GetFont's return value
espes: :\
mastertheknife: this is so frusturating
mastertheknife: hey espes i found something unrelated but interesting: stat64("/home/kfir/steam/package/beta", 0xffff52d4) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
espes: mastertheknife: yeah I saw that
espes: mastertheknife: maybe it's called from somewhere interesting?
Sir_Brizz: unfortunately it doesn't do anything with that folder
Sir_Brizz: we found that last week
mastertheknife: its a file
mastertheknife: stat64("/home/kfir/steam/package/beta", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2, ...}) = 0
mastertheknife: open("package/beta", O_RDONLY)
mastertheknife: i need to find out what the client expects there
mastertheknife: but thats less priority now
Sir_Brizz: mastertheknife: I'm getting a mix of these two errors
Sir_Brizz: http://pastebin.com/3r4BK5yu
Sir_Brizz: http://pastebin.com/D3ES7HYx
Sir_Brizz: it seems to happen when the friends popups close
xorl: ah
xorl: you're getting the free issues
xorl: I got that when my card didn't have direct rendering enabled
Sir_Brizz: glxinfo says it is on
Sir_Brizz: I get some goofy error about vsync or something
r4: mac client comes out on the 12th right?
xorl: thought so
Sir_Brizz: do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Sir_Brizz: Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
Sir_Brizz: I've messed with that in driconf
Sir_Brizz: but it doesn't seem to have any effect
Sir_Brizz: anyhow I gotta hit the sack
Sir_Brizz: it's 2:40
Sir_Brizz: nn ppl
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: weird.. hmm
xorl: Sir_Brizz, does glxgears work?
Sir_Brizz: yes
mastertheknife: espes also interesting: open("/home/kfir/steam/steam_dev.cfg", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
Sir_Brizz: kfir
espes: mastertheknife: vgui::TextImage::GetFont() returns a font character, which can be 0
Sir_Brizz: nobody named that on their poeple page
Sir_Brizz: it's interesting that Brandon Reinhart works at Valve
Sir_Brizz: I think he's the one who made OpenUT
Sir_Brizz: anyway gnite
xorl: hah
xorl: there is a guy called
xorl: "Kfir Itzhak"
xorl: on the steam facebook page that linked to the linux video
mastertheknife: thats me
mastertheknife: :)
oNNy: :D
xorl: ah
xorl: rofl
xorl: figured the ~kfir was hardcoded
xorl: dev's like to do that shit in test builds
xorl: didn't bother to strings the binary haha
mastertheknife: it was strace
xorl: oh i know that
joris_: hi o/
xorl: :)
joris_: any news concerning steam ?
joris_: still this font problem ?
xorl: yeah, still the font problem
xorl: we've all been digging but nothing so far
joris_: has anyone thought about emailing valve =D
eXlin: joris, i am sure that valve is not going to answer mails regarding linux client untill they are ready to make press release.
joris_: then let's wait to may 12
asraniel: whats on may 12 ? mac osx release?
joris_: yep
joris_: well, Valve said that ;)
mastertheknife: there wasnt a single press release about a linux client
espes: the etherpad servers are going down in a few days
mastertheknife: following the strace, it only loads marlett.ttf from the resource/fonts folder, arial and sans dejavu from system
espes: mastertheknife: yeah I know, it loads all the fonts successfully
mastertheknife: also, it uses libfontconfig and libfreetype
espes: mastertheknife: you can break at FT_Make_Face and see
mastertheknife: it opens the files, that doesnt mean they are loaded successfully
espes: mastertheknife: true
mastertheknife: espes: I wonder how the steam people got the fonts working
mastertheknife: espes: maybe its a setting in the .cfg or steam_dev.cfg
espes: mastertheknife: what do you mean?
mastertheknife: espes: i mean at valve, they probably have the fonts working
mastertheknife: but how :|
espes: mastertheknife: steam_dev.cfg is referenced in InitializeVGui
AsciiWolf: mastertheknife, maybe we should look what's in the .cfg files in Mac version of Steam :)
espes: AsciiWolf: there isn't one
mastertheknife: espes: I tried editing steamscheme.res and telling it to use a different font.. no luck
mastertheknife: espes: Suprisingly, according to the strace, it didn't even try to load the font i typed in there. it still tries to load Arial
espes: mastertheknife: weird
babai: suggest a good hex editor?
mastertheknife: espes: You know, in each .res file there are 2 versions it seems, a windows and an OSX one
espes: mastertheknife: O-o
The_Muh: hello
The_Muh: anyone checked if the linux-steam-client do search the fonts at the right path?
Ivanovic: The_Muh: it looks like the whole function is simply not implemented
Ivanovic: (intentionally left out?)
mastertheknife: espes: I made an interesting discovery
espes: ?
mastertheknife: espes: in resources/styles/steam.styles, if i change basefont from Arial to something else, it crashes
The_Muh: gabe should the client as Open Source... 24h later it runs on all plattforms
The_Muh: *release
espes: mastertheknife: it tries to reinstall the archive
mastertheknife: espes: by the way, you see those [$OSX] references? espes: mastertheknife: yeah Dark_Wizard: you already run steam under Linux? espes: Dark_Wizard: somewhat Dark_Wizard: And after the Linux OS will be playing TF2, L4D? The_Muh: steam != source engine The_Muh: but steam for linux doesnt make sense without any games, right? mastertheknife: The_Muh: neither does steam for mac The_Muh: okay - there are already some little indiegames The_Muh: altitude ftw =) Kosava: maybe it will be valve games in begining... Dark_Wizard: I think we can play all the games on the Source-engine, otherwise what's the point of steam? Not a wine to run the same, right? :) mastertheknife: Dark_Wizard: we will mastertheknife: Dark_Wizard: valve is porting their Source engine to opengl mastertheknife: espes: the basefont change leading to a crash, how did you find out where its coming from? i have no backtrace mastertheknife: espes: it seems corrupt espes: mastertheknife: I didn't espes: mastertheknife: Just editing that file makes it think the client is outdated so it unpacks all the files again mastertheknife: espes: Not here, i have BootStrapperInhibitAll = enable espes: ah espes: in steam.cfg? mastertheknife: espes: I noticed steam loading Arial, DejaVu Sans and DejaVu Sans Mono so i edited SteamScheme.res file and changed all Arial references to DejaVu Sans and console font (mono) to DejaVu Sans Mono mastertheknife: espes: Yes, then you can edit any file even change its size and it wont update mastertheknife: espes: Editing steamscheme.res doesn't give me a crash, but changing the basefont in styles/steam.styles does espes: editing basefont works for me mastertheknife: espes: to what have you changed? espes: Courier mastertheknife: Oh, i changed to DejaVu Sans mastertheknife: I will try that mastertheknife: espes: here is what happens: http://pastebin.com/1susB7FZ oNNy: mastertheknife: intresting mastertheknife: espes: Courier crashes here, can you try "DejaVu Sans" Kame: Wait, did the steamui patch become not needed? mastertheknife: Kame: no why Kame: Because I can run steam without it? mastertheknife: Kame: I doubt it, you sure? Kame: Fairly positive Kame: lemme delete steamui.so and check mastertheknife: because for me it wasnt that way Kame: Yeah, it's definitly running without the steamui patch mastertheknife: Kame: Hmm, very strange Kame: It could be how I'm calling it mastertheknife: Kame: because for me it wasnt, thats why i remade it Kame: LD_PRELOADing everything mastertheknife: Kame: Ah, thats probably why mastertheknife: bloody fonts mastertheknife: lol espes: mastertheknife: any progress? :\ mastertheknife: espes: no it still crashes but i think its not the problem mastertheknife: espes: I will change my scheme and steam.styles back to default (arial) and test the output of a successive call to CLinuxFont::GetTextSize() mastertheknife: maybe its not implemented and returning sizes of 0,0 or something really small mastertheknife: I assume the purpose of this function is to measure the size that the font will take, and then the output is used for creating a text window\label\object\whatever-you-call it :P mastertheknife: maybe its returning 0,0 or something strange mastertheknife: espes: If its the function at fault, it shouldnt be too hard to write a generic function that puts 5 in Y and strlen(string)*2 in X, or something simple like that mastertheknife: espes: that would ignore the font and its style in use, but it would probably work mastertheknife: espes: think i should try it ? espes: mastertheknife: might as well espes: mastertheknife: ok, the float version seems pretty broken espes: the int version seems to work mastertheknife: espes: why ? espes: the float version is returning -1.8089149009627335e-47 and 2251800362090496 mastertheknife: espes: I noticed in the first call to GetTextSize(float), it doesn't call the int version, only the 2nd call in the program mastertheknife: and the 2nd call is the one that segfaults mastertheknife: espes: that output is probably because we skip the int version (vgui2 patch) espes: mastertheknife: no, I reverted patches espes: mastertheknife: it definitely sets the value mastertheknife: I need to re-do my installation mastertheknife: it crashes even basefont=Arial espes: mastertheknife: :\ mastertheknife: espes: have you tried setting the output values manually espes: mastertheknife: not yet espes: mastertheknife: actually, it seems to be working now :\ mastertheknife: the first call returned 74 and 15, there too? espes: 73 and 15 for me espes: probably because of dpi difference espes: the floating point version just uses the results fomr the int version mastertheknife: espes: the second call returns bad values espes: mastertheknife: does it? espes: ah, that call is only made when displaying the welcome screen mastertheknife: espes: one output is$32 = -1.88047549e+33 and the second is 1
mastertheknife: the second is 15
espes: mastertheknife: doesn't it segfault on the second call?
mastertheknife: Yeah i remember that too
mastertheknife: no idea whats going on
mastertheknife: i'm now analyzing the 3rd call
espes: yeah, the functions work fine
mastertheknife: espes: the 2nd call returned that huge value i just showed you, so i doubt it
mastertheknife: espes: I corrected it to 74 and continued the program
espes: mastertheknife: that doesn't happen for me
mastertheknife: and i have all patches off except steamui
espes: mastertheknife: set a trace point
mastertheknife: 3rd call returned 15 and 0
mastertheknife: espes: All 3rd calls returned 15 for one of the parameters, but different result for the 2nd parameter every run
mastertheknife: espes: what do you mean?
mastertheknife: espes: i'm now in 4th call, strange enough
espes: mastertheknife: it doesn't segfault if the profile is already configured
espes: not until it tries to launch the window
mastertheknife: espes: and what profile already configured?
mastertheknife: espes: I can try deleting it
mastertheknife: espes: but first ill finish my current GetTextSize() corrections to see what i might get, i'm on 4th call
nix-7: so the steam client not yet usable?
mastertheknife: espes: on 6th call, 4 and 5th call were actually fine
espes: nix-7: define 'usable'
espes: it launches, but there are no fonts or images and you can't click on anything
nix-7: well yea, unable to click on anything would tend to make it un-usable
nix-7: ]=)
mastertheknife: nix-7: You can actually click and even move windows, but only in gnome with compiz
nix-7: ah ok
nix-7: so is the concensus with people that valve will indeed release it for linux, or is it still wishful thinking?
espes: nix-7: All we know is that they have done some work on it
mastertheknife: espes: I'm on the 16th call. All calls gave good return value and outputs except the 2th and 3th ones
mastertheknife: i'm puzzled
C0BRA: hey
C0BRA: any news on the linux client (steam)
C0BRA: hey?
eXlin: client still isn't working
eXlin: but (depens what you heard last) progress has propably happened...
C0BRA: same, i cant get a box to show
C0BRA: ime getting this error: Errors in public/subpanelwelcomecreatenewaccountaccountname.res:
C0BRA: Errors in public/subpanelwelcomecreatenewaccountemail.res:
C0BRA: Errors in public/subpanelwelcomecreatenewaccountnamecollision.res:
C0BRA: Errors in public/subpanelwelcomecreatenewaccountsecretquestion.res:
C0BRA: CLinuxSurface::CreateHTMLWindow needs ImplErrors in public/subpanelwelcomecreatenewaccountprintdetails.res:
C0BRA: Errors in public/subpanelwelcomecreatingaccount.res:
C0BRA: ./steam.sh: line 63: 2190 Segmentation fault ${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE} $@ C0BRA: CAsyncIOManager: 0 threads terminating. 0 reads, 0 writes, 0 deferrals. C0BRA: CAsyncIOManager: 0 single object sleeps, 0 multi object sleeps C0BRA: CAsyncIOManager: 0 single object alertable sleeps, 0 multi object alertable sleeps somename: apply this patch: http://www.filedropper.com/vgui2s-1273290921 somename: and use pastebin for output stuff cracker: I am getting this error after login Platform Error: bad module 'bin/friendsui', not loading C0BRA: thanks C0BRA: what file do i patch, steamui? somename: vgui2_s.so C0BRA: k thanks rfdparker2002: cracker: I think also preloading friendsui.so and serverbrowser.so fixes the bad module error (if I remember from trying to follow this yesterday) somename: how do you guys even login there? i only get that weird splashscreen cracker: thankyou rfdparker2002, it works :D C0BRA: is there a list of patches i need? or a sh script todo it auto C0BRA: i just keep hiting errors The_Muh: how do you patch the client?! C0BRA: http://pastebin.com/Ag7Tqr9e C0BRA: thats my output C0BRA: ideas? C0BRA: anyone there? mastertheknife: C0BRA: How odd, no error mastertheknife: C0BRA: you sure you don't see a window ? C0BRA: yes C0BRA: is there a guide to follow? mastertheknife: you can try patchin steamui aswell C0BRA: i have :S C0BRA: i dont know if i have the latest version though C0BRA: link? mastertheknife: C0BRA: Delete steamui.so (or any .so file) and start steam so it will reupdate with fresh files mastertheknife: C0BRA: and ill give you links C0BRA: ok mastertheknife: C0BRA: http://www.filedropper.com/steamui-1273290921 http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s-1273290921_2a.bspatch mastertheknife: somename: that vgui2 you linked to is somewhat outdated somename: maybe... Gnurdux: mastertheknife, are any of the new things due to Valve updates, or are they all due to your hacks? mastertheknife: Gnurdux: valve updates mostly, and i didnt really hack (not in the sense of bypassing), i hacked in the sense of (fixing an error or two) and it wasn't just my work, its espes aswell eXlin: rofl: Apple should just venture into the porn business. They could make millions by patenting a certain other hand motion ... Gnurdux: mastertheknife, that was what i meant by "hack" and "you" referred to all you cool people mastertheknife: Gnurdux: And we just found that the steamui patch is now obsolete, its possible to start steam now even without it Gnurdux: but that's really strange Gnurdux: why would Valve be making such updates? C0BRA: same output eXlin: to fix bugs? mastertheknife: Gnurdux: By preloading all the .so files in the linux32 folder, the curent version will start even without the need to apply steamui patch Gnurdux: interesting Gnurdux: maybe they fixed it after they saw your patch :P C0BRA: mastertheknife, eta? Gnurdux: or maybe they are just working like mad on it mastertheknife: C0BRA: When the client will be released? I hope 3 months, but never is also possible C0BRA: hm C0BRA: mac was released, both based on unix, i think its just around the corner mastertheknife: Gnurdux: in the previous version, the steamui patch included many fixes, but in the current one, it only had a workaround for getting the libraries to load. this means valve did fix some stuff espes: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/view/0UmBOBf27q/latest mastertheknife: Gnurdux: My guess is that valve is indeed workign on the client, but at very slow rate. Maybe now after releasing Mac OS client, they'll begin fully working on the linux one Gnurdux: it seems like a bizarre coincidence that it starts actually working (sort of) just around when it becomes visible to the public Gnurdux: that leads me to suspect that perhaps it isn't a coincidence at all mastertheknife: Gnurdux: More bizzare is that you can even login, unlike in mac version Gnurdux: lol C0BRA: lol C0BRA: screencast? C0BRA: or upload the files? C0BRA: so we can download and run them Gnurdux: i think this might be analogous to those hints dropped in Portal C0BRA: haha, i loved the way they announced portal 2 mastertheknife: Gnurdux: Vavle has two universes, store.steampowered.com one and store.internal.steampowered.com (This is the one they use in their lab), why release the files to the public one and make them publicly available? Maybe they are teasing us C0BRA: i hope they got a workin version Gnurdux: i think we can be reasonably sure that there is a working version somewhere... C0BRA: i agree mastertheknife: Gnurdux: I doubt it because our files were compiled on may few days ago Gnurdux: you think there is no working version? Gnurdux: i just meant mastertheknife: I doubt it because the date of the files Gnurdux: a version that works in Valve's lab mastertheknife: but that doesnt mean its not possible Gnurdux: due to whatever differences in setup mastertheknife: if you remove your steam.cfg file, it will try to use their internal universe (store.internal.steampowered.com) which is unreachable for us C0BRA: can you upload a zip of your steam contents? C0BRA: so i can get a working version mastertheknife: C0BRA: just upload the current error to pastebin.com C0BRA: its the same C0BRA: both files are pacthed Gnurdux: i guess its possible that it is modular enough that they just wrote some new GUI etc code, tested that code, and swapped it in, and are now trying to fix weird subtle bugs mastertheknife: C0BRA: what is the filename of the vgui file you applied asciiwolf: well, after preloading all .so from linux32, the steam works for me without applying the steamui patch (only vgui2 patch needs to be applied)... but it crashes on sigsegv after login :( C0BRA: steamui.so and vgui2_s.so mastertheknife: C0BRA: my bad, the name of the patch you used for vgui2 C0BRA: i dont have that one C0BRA: or you mean _s mastertheknife: C0BRA: _s yes C0BRA: vgui2_s-1273290921 mastertheknife: C0BRA: thats outdated C0BRA: new one? mastertheknife: C0BRA: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s-1273290921_2a.bspatch mastertheknife: C0BRA: notice the _2a at the end C0BRA: yes mastertheknife: asciiwolf: Interesting, can you try patching steamui.so and see if that solves it? asciiwolf: wait asciiwolf: I deleted the Steam files from my homedir and now it works ok asciiwolf: I got steam window asciiwolf: :) asciiwolf: with this patch only: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s-1273290921_2a.bspatch mastertheknife: Great.. this is good news mastertheknife: In the previous version steamui patch included more fixes, but in current version, steamui pach only had a workaround for getting the libraries to load, this means valve did fix some stuff mastertheknife: and now its not even needed at all C0BRA: same error C0BRA: oh noes, i lost my mouse cursor C0BRA: dam C0BRA: ill redo the patching and stuff mastertheknife: C0BRA: no idea then C0BRA: need to restart xserver C0BRA: uhh, ctrl shifr backspace dont restart it anymore? asciiwolf: :) C0BRA: cmd to restart xserver? asciiwolf: ctlr + alt + F1 asciiwolf: login as root asciiwolf: then restart the login manager from init joris_: stupid question but : what's the command to apply the patch N asciiwolf: joris_, bspatch joris_: asciiwolf: i know, but then ? eXlin: btw. just crossed my mind. is valve allowing their employees to work that one "free" day in projects they like? eXlin: just like google and many other companies Tigge: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/DontZap Tigge: so, AltGr+SysReq+K should restart X too mastertheknife: espes: Is it possible to lock people modifying that file? asciiwolf: I'm also getting this error asciiwolf: Error: texture file 'graphics/RadUnselStd' does not exist or is invalid mastertheknife: espes: that way we could add instructions there and link people to there. mastertheknife: asciiwolf: I get it too.. eXlin: just wondering if this linux clien't could be something like that. some employees want to see it on linux so they are working their "extra time" on it. would be one explanation why there is happening progress but slow one. ofc better explanation would be mac client taking all their time atm asciiwolf: in graphics dir, there's a file named radUnselStd.tga asciiwolf: but not RadUnselStd.tga mastertheknife: asciiwolf: rename it then or run ln -s radUnselStd.tga RadUnselStd.tga mastertheknife: there are many case sensitive issues like that asciiwolf: Masanator, I'll try ;) mastertheknife: asciiwolf: this is one of the things the vgui2 patches do, if you try to run steam without it, it will tell you its not finding the .res files because its searching for them in lowercase joris_: eXlin: That's an idea, but I don't think it's going slowly, everyday we have updates :p asciiwolf: mastertheknife, ah :) mastertheknife: eXlin: maybe mastertheknife: asciiwolf: complete list: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/view/0UmBOBf27q/latest asciiwolf: Masanator, http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1236/steam8.png look what I get! mastertheknife: asciiwolf: nice :) asciiwolf: masa-, sorry, it was for mastertheknife :D mastertheknife: asciiwolf: Now we just need the fonts working asciiwolf: :) asciiwolf: ye eross1: sorry but have to ask asciiwolf, what is that - steam for linux in closed beta / testing? c0bra: heres my error: http://pastebin.com/bmH4Z4ku asciiwolf: eross1, an pre-aplha version of steam for linux, found and downloaded from valve web :) asciiwolf: *alpha mastertheknife: eross1: There is a lot of confusion in this matter. Its a client that it is hosted and updated frequently on valve's website eross1: cool mastertheknife: c0bra: You aren't launching right, either apply steamui.so or use the launch method described here: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/view/0UmBOBf27q/latest c0bra: http://pastebin.com/H5cKyd8c mastertheknife: Segmentation fault.. hmm, apply the _2a vgui2 patch, and if already applied, try adding -login mastertheknife: thats how we login c0bra: ok c0bra: i done the patch, ill try that now c0bra: same error c0bra: and now my mouse has gone again mastertheknife: no idea then :/ c0bra: k my mouse is back c0bra: is there any bash script that can do it all? c0bra: incase ime doing something wrong mastertheknife: c0bra: not that i know of cracker: mastertheknife, try -login user pw -install 240 cracker: i got fullscrenn cracker: then crashed mastertheknife: cracker: interesting mastertheknife: cracker: I didnt get any full screen, but i dont have vgui2 applied at the moment, one second mastertheknife: Segfault now everytime i try with -login mastertheknife: sigh mastertheknife: deleting the blob file will fix it mastertheknife: cracker: nothing happens with -install 240 here mastertheknife: c0bra: have you tried deleting ClientRegistry.blob? cracker: :/ c0bra: yes, ive deleted the steam folders c0bra: in /home Kano: hi mastertheknife , any news today? mastertheknife: c0bra: try deleting just clientregistry.blob c0bra: how are you getting the linux files? c0bra: i got a bash script todo it, what about you? mastertheknife: Kano: it seems that with the current version, no need for the steamui patch, the client can be started by preloading all .so files Kano: i have a script mastertheknife: c0bra: I download and extract manually Kano: mastertheknife: no patching or the v* patch? c0bra: oh, and then you just run LD_LIBRARY_PATH=linux32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH LD_PRELOAD=echo linux32/*.so ./steam.sh
c0bra: no patch?
mastertheknife: Kano: technically both aren't needed anymore, but without vgui2 you will have case sensitive issues not finding .res files and maybe an opengl error, and maybe also a segfault
Kano: a new update?
c0bra: uhh, someone needs to make a working guide on how to run it
mastertheknife: In previous versions, steamui patch included many more fixes, but they are all fixed by valve, in this version it only included a workaround to get the libraries to load, and now it seems there is another way to load the libraries, so no need for the file
mastertheknife: Kano: I mean yesterday's update
Kano: mastertheknife: btw. i patched aquaria just for fun to be able to go back to desktop without closing
mastertheknife: Kano: how you do that, its so annoying that i can't alt+tab out of linux native games
mastertheknife: Kano: World of Goo has the same problem
Kano: no world of goo works
Kano: i can leave it in window mode
mastertheknife: Kano: hmm, you use alt+tab ?
Kano: in window
mastertheknife: oh, i play full screen
Kano: well i press alt-enter then alt-tab
mastertheknife: Kano: cool, thanks!
Kano: same way with patched aquaria
Kano: you can move the mouse out of the game in window
mastertheknife: Kano: cool.. :)
mastertheknife: Kano: Seems like you know debugging.. how about try to get the fonts to work :P
Kano: mastertheknife: i disabled the xserver check in fglrx and also disabled the logo
c0bra: someone set up an svn with a working version of this stuff
c0bra: i know
c0bra: but it does NOT work for me... how many times do i have to say
Kano: but the objump of steam is not so good readable for me, most likely because i did not install dbg packages
mastertheknife: Kano: me and espes dont have anything, just objdump -S file.so > textfile and gdb
Kano: i use -d normally, much faster ;)
mastertheknife: ah so thats why it took me 30 minutes to diassemble all .so files
NigeyUK: hey hey :)
mastertheknife: hey
NigeyUK: is anyone else having problems with ubuntu 10.04 and a screen saying checking battery state? :S
mastertheknife: I'm gentoo user :)
NigeyUK: bah :( :P
somename: arch linux here
mastertheknife: I'm now studying about X11's fonts and texts
NigeyUK: its weird, its on my desktop to, it doesnt have a bloody battery! lol
mastertheknife: I've been debugging the fonts for over 4 hours to no luck
NigeyUK: ah dam dude, well i searched and searched for a clue about fonts in the strace yesterday and got nothing
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: Internally things aren't perfect and precise, but the code is there, the fonts should work
NigeyUK: hm thats very odd
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I tried following many font functions with no luck so i thought i will just check how the program interacts with X11 about fonts and text
NigeyUK: i did find references to the icons folders n stuff that were missing, but i doubt thats anything major
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: However, the client tries to use the Arial font, you need it installed in your xorg
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: can emerge mscorefonts
NigeyUK: ahh ill try that, i tried copying the macos fonts to the pc and that didnt help either
Kano: michaellarabel: it seems the search feature is borken in your board
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: Mac OS uses different font, you can see in resources/SteamScheme.res and resources/styles/steam.styles
michaellarabel: KanoL how so
NigeyUK: i'll look now
NigeyUK: need to fix this ubuntu battery problem first, it's hard locking the pc :(
Kano: michaellarabel: i know that somebody patched sdl and posted something about it, but i can not find it
somename: steamui.so doesnt need to be patched anymore ,right?
mastertheknife: somename: thats correct.
mastertheknife: somename: assuming you preload all libraries before starting steam
Kano: mastertheknife: does not run here
somename: i do that
mastertheknife: there is a linux font called cursor?
Kano: isnt that a mouse cursor?
mastertheknife: thats the only font the client is trying to load it seems
Kano: mastertheknife: /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc/cursor.pcf.gz
Kano: in theory there is such a font
Rednaxela: Which apparently contains the default X11 cursor
Deanjo: What a great day to do 955 BE vs 1090T benchmarking
Kano: you got a 1090T?
Kano: with patched kernel?
Kano: or 2.6.34 after rc6?
Kano: because up to rc6 you can not use full speed
Kano: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blobdiff;f=arch/x86/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/powernow-k8.c;h=b6215b9798e202dcd78a5e929427b20a2e4e0065;hp=d360b56e9825e43e16b185b00746a016e806c1f5;hb=b810e94c9d8e3fff6741b66cd5a6f099a7887871;hpb=56f0e74c9cf98941af700b61466648a2d06277bb
Kano: i think there are 2 other patches affecting speed
Deanjo: Benching it with patches, without patches, lin and win
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, i'm gonna wipe my steam dir and start again, ive messed up with the patches somewhere, whats the patches i need now, just the 2 on the public pad?
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: just the _2a one if you use the start method inside ^^
NigeyUK: oki, cheers dude :D
r4: does the steam is coming to linux dance
NigeyUK: hehe
NigeyUK: mastertheknife, still use the first patch for steamui.so ?
NigeyUK: hey r4 be better when you do the "playing tf2 natively on linux" dance ;)
NigeyUK: ello x-pilot
x-pilot: NigeyUK: hi
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: apparently its not needed anymore in this steam version if you preload all the modules
NigeyUK: yup, got it running, invisible windows at the mo..lol
r4: NigeyUK: most definitely :)
r4: although i already have tf2 running quite well with wine
r4: like stable 70fps
NigeyUK: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=linux32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH LD_PRELOAD=echo linux32/*.so ./steam.sh -login nigeyuk univ3rse NigeyUK: oops Oddbio: I had TF2 running, until they did the new steam GUI update.. now it doesn't join servers properly. NigeyUK: XIO: fatal IO error 0 (Success) on X server ":0.0" NigeyUK: after 38 requests (33 known processed) with 0 events remaining. NigeyUK: thats new r4: that stinks Oddbio r4: do you launch tf2 first? r4: or try to join from steam Oddbio: r4: ya r4: ok Oddbio: r4: It's ok though, that's why I have still keep a windows partition around r4: its never worked as good as it does now for me...including steam itself r4: same r4: although im SUPER close to getting rid of it tshepo: Hi every1 r4: then just run a windows virtual machine Oddbio: r4: ya it's funny, because overall steam seems more responsive in wine now. But it just doesn't get to the "joining server" screen. r4: that stinks :( Oddbio: all will be good though when the linux steam client comes out :) AsciiWolf: NigeyUK, change you password ;) AsciiWolf: *your NigeyUK: i did AsciiWolf: :) NigeyUK: lol AsciiWolf: it happened to me too :D NigeyUK: i felt a right muppet posting that yesterday lol AsciiWolf: yesterday :D NigeyUK: right what is this for i wonder ... NigeyUK: 2785 open("/home/nigel/steamtest/linux32/libfreetype.so.6", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) NigeyUK: some very odd libs in this mastertheknife NigeyUK: very nvidia specific kloplop321: loves seeing this continuous development NigeyUK: hehe im no developer, jus looking at an strace to see what's going on NigeyUK: never seen a libnvidia-tls.so b4 though kloplop321: Well at least it is being discussed. eXlin: stange. i got windows once open, i clicked some random buttom and it crashes. now when i try to execute steam again, after it's added licences to games and says loginsuccess() it gives me error: eXlin: CLinuxSurface::CreateHTMLWindow needs Impl./steam.sh: line 63: 9124 Segmentation fault${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE}$@
NigeyUK: true :D
Kano: NigeyUK: no thats only the first search path override with ld-libary-path, thats normal
NigeyUK: ahh so i can ignore looking at all the .so errors ?
kloplop321: uuugh I hate segmentation faults!
NigeyUK: segfaults suck
Oddbio: do you guys think that they might want Steam Linux Client testers? Or will they just keep it all in the dark until they release the final thing?
somename: i guess they will make an open beta or something
NigeyUK: god knows, they havent even acknowledged this code exists, but id imagine theyd want it tested as well as the mac version .. so some kind of beta would pop up im sure
asraniel: exciting times.. steam "hacked" to work on linux, iphone hacked to run android.. :)
eXlin: well steam doesn't work yet
eXlin: and don't really care about iphone, soz. but exiting times still never the less :P
kloplop321: doesn't even own a cell phone, yet apparently is the most tech-y guy in high school
rsk: exciting times.. steam came out in 2003 and now you can barely run the GUI portion of it
rsk: just imagine how much work it is porting let's say the source engine compared to the steam gui
asraniel: hey, be optimistic :)
rsk: OK ITS OUT
rsk: so in my calculations
NigeyUK: you'll prolly find the engine is well and truly ported by now, theyve had a linux dev there for over 2 years
kloplop321: at least it seems that they haven't depended totally on DX
rsk: they might be done let's say 2200 ?
kloplop321: nah
rsk: if they keep this rate up
NigeyUK: its actually not that much work ya know
rsk: haha
rsk: so why isn't it done then
rsk: if it's just a little bit of work
NigeyUK: i mean theyve done osx in under 2 years
rsk: and one guy has been working on it for 2 years
skyhirider: hope they loose dx altogher and inspire others to do the same and get ppl working on opengl
NigeyUK: DX will never go away
somename: whats so good on directx anyways?
skyhirider: noo, do not take my hopes away :P
kloplop321: it is "sponsored" by Microsoft
NigeyUK: but diminish in dominance hopefully .. IF they can get opengl 4 up to scratch
somename: so what? microsoft isnt the only company on the planet earth
skyhirider: from what i heard, microsoft made their first dx that was absolute garbage, them they "borrowed" the whole opengl stack and made their usable dx that has then stolen the market
bluekoala: All these LFS instructions are nice
oNNy: yeah the greens are very strong in the german election :D
bluekoala: But I just wish they could elaborate on what they are and why I need them
kloplop321: somename: yeah, well a lot of people on earth pretty much believe it is
bluekoala: I hear DirectX is more pleasant to work with
NigeyUK: its more ...
bluekoala: That's the only advantage it can have over OpenGL
NigeyUK: EASY
NigeyUK: directx = audio, video, input stack
NigeyUK: an all in 1 kinda thing
bluekoala: So yeah, easier means you can then outsource development and save money
will: DirectX is pleasant for studio because Microsoft give somes  for using it
NigeyUK: yup, and port to / from consoles quicker
will: and because the market is larger
bluekoala: MS has been using scare tactics to scare people away from using OpenGL
bluekoala: *Dev's
bluekoala: That's how they gained their dominance
will: All in one products often give one crappy product like Live Messenger
kloplop321: haha
eXlin: rsk: and beside a lot of job that is needed for linux client and games is done by now with mac os x porting
eXlin: it maybe were not "just a small job" but porting for linux is relatively small job now when they have done job of getting away from MS techs to unix based platform...
will: but video games developers are poor developers
will: their job is based on MSDN & DirectX
will: they never learn a thing
bluekoala: John Carmack would salp you with a large trout if he was here
will: just copy/paste some snippet
NigeyUK: lol
will: John Carmack isn't a game developer
will: he's god!
will: :-D
rsk: he's an engine developer
rsk: a manly mans job
bluekoala: Who just happens to develop games? :P
rsk: he dosen't do art and cutscenes
rsk: that's what a game is basicly
eXlin: bluekoala: my dream ;)
rsk: scripted events etc
rsk: content
rsk: the engine parses it
eXlin: and on steam's weekend deal. civ4 complete edition 10€. that is temptating....
bluekoala: So you are temptated to get it?
manaphuun: hi folks
manaphuun: any news? is portal 3 already running?
AsciiWolf: portal 3?
Modplan: No, but half-life 4 is
bluekoala: Sorry, just had a nerdgasm
eXlin: yea, i am considering buying that one. think it's runnable on wine. (i am big fan of strategic games...)
Kano: sure postal 3 runs with scissors
bluekoala: ;)
bluekoala: Kano, Here's what can happen to your face when you run with scissors
Kano: scroll down
bluekoala: The .gif file? :P
Kano: you got it
bluekoala: lol "When Shao Kahn lets Kano live; he fails to realize the resourcefulness of the scheming human. Kano lures Kahn's army away on a false mission; the nukes them using a stolen weapon."
oNNy: 6,3% andere
oNNy: oh wrong chat
oNNy: sorry
bluekoala: test
mastertheknife: espes: I think i found something.. here?
mastertheknife: bloody fonts
eXlin: any1 has experience of samorost2? apparently its "bonus" to humble bundle
AsciiWolf: eXlin, ye... nice game :)
eXlin: tho it apparently don't want to work with my flash...
dashcloud: eXlin: if it's anything like Machinarium, it comes bundled with it's own flash
eXlin: well, it i opened .html on firefox witch loaded flash. all mouse-overs seems to hightlight text but it doesn't accept any commands
dashcloud: it appears to need actual flash
eXlin: yeah, well i am not too worried about it. i might try to get it working it some day. world of goo and penumbra was reasons to buy bundle
bluekoala: Anyone get killing floor to work?
bluekoala: I know it uses UT2004 engine
bluekoala: I'm assuming it's possible
dashcloud: hi, anyone have s-video out working with Fedora 12 & intel graphics?
somename: Sometimes... I dream about cheese
bluekoala: mmmmmmmmmmm cheeeeese
eXlin: dunno, but to get ut2k4 working in lucid you need to download libstdc++5 (lucid comes with only v6 and 5 can't be found in repos either)...
somename: libstdc++5 is in jauntys repo
kloplop321: what are you on now
travis: hi
somename: arch linux
kloplop321: I see.
travis: how do i get the steam linux binaries
Guest41879: how do i get the steam linux binaries
bluekoala: You repeat the same message over and over until a chanbot kicks you; then it should be in you ~ dir
dashcloud: Guest41879: you are aware they don't really do anything now right?
Guest41879: yes
Guest41879: still I would like them
kloplop321: and that no games work
Guest41879: I understand
kloplop321: why did you rename yourself from travis to some random guest name?
eXlin: http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux is list of files. just replace steam_client_linux part with filename
Guest41879: idk it did it automatically
bluekoala: The name is taken
bluekoala: watch
bluekoala: ohh I can't
bluekoala: Must be something else then
kloplop321: is the version config in there a standard unix timestamp?
mastertheknife: kloplop321: the manifest file? (steam_client_linux)? yes
kloplop321: okay
NeoRazorX: I get this on steam linux client: Adding license for package 220
mastertheknife: NeoRazorX: its games\stuff that you own
x-pilot: wtf?
Guest41879: wtf
mastertheknife: NeoRazorX: ok but no need to flood
somename: what is 0 ?
dashcloud: NeoRazorX: you'll want to use pastebin for that kind of thing
somename: i got 0 ,too
mastertheknife: NeoRazorX: http://pastebin.com
NeoRazorX: ok, sorry
xorl: Let the tards flow in.
mastertheknife: I get 0 and 1 aswell
mastertheknife: hey xorl :)
xorl: hey mastertheknife find anything new?
mastertheknife: xorl: I spent so much time today trying to debug fonts
mastertheknife: xorl: no luck i dont have experience with X11 and fonts
oNNy: does someone know how to convert a mpz_class-integer to a string?
oNNy: in c++
xorl: yeah, he doesn't use standard rendering methods by any means
Guest41879: um how would i run the binaries
xorl: From what i've seen
xorl: No fontconfig called or anything like that
mastertheknife: xorl: It actually opens libfontconfig and libfreetype on startup
GNU\colossus: can you recommend me an affordable, reliable, ideally (continental) EU-based XEN VPS provider for my personal hosting needs?
eXlin: Guest41879 once you unpacked them successfully you sould find steam.sh
Deanjo: was ready to patch the kernel for Phenom II x6 support only to find that Jeff Mahoney already pushed it through an update :D
Guest41879: oh joy im not that good yet may you please explain to me how to do this.
bluekoala1: oooooooOOOOOOOooooooo
bluekoala1: Do you have a phenom X6?
Deanjo: Yup
Deanjo: 1090T
bluekoala: Did you try to OC it yet? :P
Guest41879: eXlin may you explain to me how to d this.
Oddbio: I believe that "Adding license for package ####" refers to the applaunch codes
Deanjo: lol, not even installed yet. STill benching the 955 BE
mastertheknife: GNU\colossus: I i'm not sure what you mean EU based XEN, but fsckvps is good
xorl: Deanjo, how's the OC performance
mastertheknife: GNU\colossus: I wanted to try out fsckvps once but then a friend got us a dedicated server
Deanjo: I'll let you know once I get there. Could be a while though, benching the current 955BE before swapping it out
mastertheknife: GNU\colossus: http://fsckvps.com/ you can google about them if you aren't sure
xorl: Deanjo, ah, cool
bluekoala: AM2+ or AM3?
GNU\colossus: mastertheknife: I'll look into them. other suggestions still appreciated.
Deanjo: On a nvidia board, AM2+
bluekoala: Ah
Deanjo: Usually get better overclocks with it then the ATI 890 board I have as well
GNU\colossus: I'd like the VPS provider to have their datacenter(s) located in the UI due to latency concerns
xorl: GNU\colossus, Linode, they have Xen VPS' in London :)
bluekoala: I have a x4 9500 I'd like to swap out for something more speedy
eXlin: in terminal go to directory where you have unpacked them and run command: ./steam.sh or double click it and tell it to run it in terminal if you have execute rights on it
Deanjo: While I'm at it, might as well bench it against the old 9850 as well
NeoRazorX: http://pastebin.com/fiU0jP85
GNU\colossus: xorl: they don't offer a package small enough for my needs ;)
Guest41879: eXlin how do i unpack them
GNU\colossus: I'd like to stay below 10€/month
GNU\colossus: and 128mb RAM is enough for my purposes
xorl: you won't find that really :\
Guest41879: what i have done so far is saved the text from the link i was given in a file called steam.bin
xorl: It's cost ineffective
GNU\colossus: xorl: there's PLENTY of such offers, really
mastertheknife: xorl: for $9/month you get 384MB ram at fsckvps, and for$12.95 you get 512MB ram
xorl: GNU\colossus, In the US yes.
GNU\colossus: xorl: look at www.lowendbox.com for example
GNU\colossus: xorl: also in the EU
xorl: Then why are you asking if you already found one lol
bluekoala: lol
xorl: That's not logical :\
bluekoala: I think he wants a 128mb one for 5$GNU\colossus: xorl: I found plenty of different offers to evaluate. I'm looking for a personal recommendation to make it easier to weed out the better ones. doesn't that sound reasonable to you? xorl: ah, well linode, no matter how much the cost xorl: is worth *every* penny :P xorl: I have two Euro 720's and 4 stateside in there different DC's eXlin: if you use ubuntu just rigthclick over package and use unpack there. otherwice search google for it xorl: I don't trust OpenVZ containers, though. xorl: why I stick to linodes xen setup GNU\colossus: I'd like to leave my current OpenVZ contract for something with Xen xorl: on another note xorl: i've heard good things about http://www.rackvm.com/ <--- xorl: they are on that page xorl: Looks about what you need GNU\colossus: I'm monitoring their offers; they have some of the best to date Deanjo: wishes coolit would hurry up with his cooling system Guest41879: wait so I have a document on my desktop called steam.bin that I saved the code from he webpage in how do i unpack it if there is no button for it bluekoala: Water? Deanjo: ya xorl: bbiab xorl: mothers day crud :\ bluekoala: Do you know of any good passive cooling solutions? GNU\colossus: a ton of solid copper should do mastertheknife: Guest41879: I never heard of steam.bin bluekoala: I have a big jar of pennies :P Deanjo: Well right now the old Thermalright 120 extreme does a good job for me Guest41879: me nether i just made a name for it NigeyUK: mastertheknife, i found some more references to fonts here .. eXlin: Gnu\colossus: "my" company pays around 29€ / mo from 2x (512Mt, 10Gb hd, 2 own core's from xeon) tho even that's over that 10e mastertheknife: NigeyUK: sure.. you want to paste and give me link ? Guest41879: idk how to do this im rather a noob when it comes to .bin files NigeyUK: sure NigeyUK: http://pastebin.com/MGqDnFpR GNU\colossus: eXlin: I actually do operate some dedicated, physical machines in two german datacenters, I'd just like to have another VPS at hand for little money Guest41879: all i know is that I got the webpage for the binaries http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linuxand I am some how supposed to unpack them NigeyUK: no idea if its useful but its font related so ... mastertheknife: xorl: We used to have a VPS in europe (the box had a Q6600 processor with 4GB ram, 1GB and 1 core for everyone), this was$50/month
NigeyUK: dam theres alot more to :s
GNU\colossus: brb, PSU change
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: I have seen that already, this is probably referenced by libfontconfig or libfreetype
NigeyUK: ahh oki np
mastertheknife: Guest41879: and then unpack them to /home/you/steam
NigeyUK: 2785 stat64("/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts", 0xbfa669fc) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
NigeyUK: 2785 stat64("/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts", 0xbfa66aec) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
Guest41879: ok ty much i am sure i can figure out how to download them but is there a quick command for it
NigeyUK: oops wrong box
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: it actually loads the fonts fine into the RAM, the issue is somewhere else
NigeyUK: yeah that's about what i'm seeing here, how very very strange
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: and most font functions seem to return success
eXlin: Guest41879: just use firefox or webbrowser of your choise. put those locations to it's addressbar and it asks where you want to downlaod them
Guest41879: i know
Guest41879: im already on 4th one
NigeyUK: yup, only 1 or 2 errors related to the actual font files themselves
Guest41879: i like the teminal though so just wondering if there was a command
atmartens: wget
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: Steam's UI system is very complicated. Steam's GUI resides in .res files of a custom format, and there are so many font and GUI classes inside the client
Guest41879: ya i remember wget used it like 3 times but still i like that command
NigeyUK: yeah ive learning that, and alot of it in plain txt files to
mastertheknife: By the way, wikipedia was updated by someone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(content_delivery)#Linux
NigeyUK: nicey :D
somename: i still wonder why valve delayed the release of the mac client
mastertheknife: to may 12th? probably because they discovered bugs
Guest41879: do i extract the zip folders to one folder or what
mastertheknife: Guest41879: extract all to /home/you/steam
Guest41879: ok do i take them out of there normal folders
AsciiWolf: Guest41879, extract only steam_linux.zip
Guest41879: like linux32 public_all skins and ect..
AsciiWolf: the rest will update automatically...
Guest41879: ok
mastertheknife: AsciiWolf: Yeah, good point
NigeyUK: id be very keen to see what happens to the linux files once the mac ver is oficially realeased, after 12th may they may get an update, or they may vanish
Guest41879: ok i extracted it into home/travis/steam
Guest41879: now i have steam_linux.zip..... in the folder
AsciiWolf: NigeyUK, ye
Guest41879: now how do i run
AsciiWolf: place it into steam dir
AsciiWolf: and run chmod +x on it
AsciiWolf: (chmod +x run.sh)
AsciiWolf: then run ./run.sh
AsciiWolf: also, before that you must run chmod +x on linux32/steam
AsciiWolf: somename, after updating...
c0bra: how do you get the team files?
c0bra: steam
c0bra: i cant get the same ones (i dont think)
AsciiWolf: and place it in steam dir too
Guest41879: alright
AsciiWolf: hm
AsciiWolf: some error?
Guest41879: i get Universe = store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux
TobiasIsACommie: Guest41879: wget http://pub.asciiwolf.com/software/linux/games/steam/steam.cfg
somename: thats not a error
mastertheknife: In this version of steam, patching steamui is not needed anymore if you preload all libraries in linux32 folder
c0bra: [----] !!! Fatal Error: Failed to load steamui.so
c0bra: no modifications
Guest41879: hay do i have to chmod steam.cfg
c0bra: no
c0bra: chmoding with +x sets it to executable
mastertheknife: c0bra: you didn't preload steamui.so then, or you miss some libraries
Guest41879: crap my cursor is gone on ubuntu after i ran the file
c0bra: what libarys?
mastertheknife: c0bra: Try the run command in the link i just posted
c0bra: ok
Guest41879: gota restart dang cursor
dashcloud: try typing reset into the terminal
somename: oh noes.... kernel update
Guest41879: blahhhhh stupid cursor
Guest41879: brb
somename: luckily arch doesnt bother me when i updated the kernel
AsciiWolf: Guest41879, enable compiz before running steam ;)
Guest41879: why
mastertheknife: Guest41879: with compiz enabled it seems to work fine on ubuntu, see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgqdlA_jE8
travisman: hi im guest lol the reboot fixed it
maligor: so they've fixed some of the bugs you fixed earlier?
maligor: or whoever did it
travisman: ok so now that my cursor is back how should i go about runing steam now
mastertheknife: maligor: I don't know, but previous version of steam required some changes in steamui.so to get it to work, other than loading libraries bypass. in this version of steam, steamui patch only included libraries fail loading workaround, so yeah its possible they fixed some stuff
travisman: brb restarting again
travisman: lol
somename: epic restarting
Kame: Why exactly do you need to restart?
cracker: how to tell the client not to check the files
mastertheknife: cracker: easy
mastertheknife: cracker: let me find it 1 second
Kame: BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable
NigeyUK: 2785 read(14, "\"Registry\"\n{\n\t\"HKLM\"\n\t{\n\t\t\"Softw"..., 629) = 629
NigeyUK: haha
Kame: Pu that in steam.cfg
Kame: Put*
NigeyUK: wish theyd stop being sloppy and take the windows crap out
cracker: thank you kame, mastertheknife
mastertheknife: Kame was quicker, lol
TobiasIsACommie: NigeyUK: you got that on linux? hah
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: Yeah, so much of the client is built on windows, its like a duct taped client
NigeyUK: yup lmao
NigeyUK: ive seen windows, and macos stuff in here, its a right mess :|
Kame: So valve wants to make their own registry, let them have their fun
travisman26: so what should i do now to run steam
Oddbio: wait.. they are going to make a registry for the linux client?
maligor: Oddbio, yes, it's going to replace /etc completely
NigeyUK: 2785 stat64("/home/nigel/Steam/registry.vdf", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=629, ...}) = 0
Oddbio: wow...
NigeyUK: registry :)
travisman26: wouldnt that be a bad thing?
travisman26: lol
Oddbio: maligor: maybe that's just a temporary solution so they can release it, but one day they might do it right...
NigeyUK: lol
maligor: does it really matter
Oddbio: I guess not
somename: nobody cares
TobiasIsACommie: Oddbio: it is probably just ugly hacks to get it barely working
NigeyUK: as long as it works who cares
maligor: it's a bit daft but...
mastertheknife: ClientRegistry.blob is one of the registry files
Kame: Not really ugly, it just creates a config files
Sarto: as long as it works well
TobiasIsACommie: Oddbio: once it is barely working you refactor the ugly hacks and, well, make it good and usable
eXlin: bad? not really. doesnt matter if its conf file in xml-format or their custom. as long it's not every single setting system has in single text file
Kame: just because they name it registry and have it in vdf format
Sarto: and beats running it in wine
mastertheknife: TobiasIsACommie: I hope.
TobiasIsACommie: mastertheknife: well, is how i would do it
travisman26: ok so now do i just clcik run.sh
travisman26: ?
travisman26: and run it
NigeyUK: i think mastertheknife will be dreaming of X11 and fonts for weeks to come..lol
TobiasIsACommie: hehe, true, but i will say quite entertaining
TobiasIsACommie: i don't play games, i don't use steam, but i am really enjoying watching the hacking and seeing what people are doing, and how they are doing it.
maligor: I'd probably use protocol buffers over xml if I was writing a settings store :P
TobiasIsACommie: i haven't even tried the patches, then again, there would be no point, i can't help with the hacking, and i don't even have an account to check it out. But, interesting to see how it is done
travisman26: ?
travisman26: ./steam.sh: line 63: 1819 Segmentation fault ${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE} $@ travisman26: CAsyncIOManager: 0 threads terminating. 0 reads, 0 writes, 0 deferrals. travisman26: CAsyncIOManager: 0 single object sleeps, 0 multi object sleeps travisman26: CAsyncIOManager: 0 single object alertable sleeps, 0 multi object alertable sleeps travisman26: XIO: fatal IO error 0 (Success) on X server ":0.0" travisman26: after 24 requests (21 known processed) with 0 events remaining. travisman26: cant run the client c0bra: awsome mastertheknife, that worked mastertheknife: travisman26: use the run method here: http://openetherpad.com/ep/pad/view/0UmBOBf27q/latest travisman26: o joy idk how but ill try mastertheknife: TobiasIsACommie: Interesting. I am actually a steam user with many games that work crap through wine TobiasIsACommie: maligor: uh nice, didn't know about protocol buffers, interesting mastertheknife: TobiasIsACommie: What drives me nuts is not the fonts or bugs, its valve not announcing their intentions regarding a linux client somename: i hope they will soon Kame: I think that they're going to announce it tomorrow TobiasIsACommie: agreed, as a linux user i really want steam soon, even if i won't personally use it, it is still a good thing mastertheknife: We should kidnap a valve employee and put a gun to his head and ask whats going with linux TobiasIsACommie: Kame: i think that is optimistic mastertheknife: :P c0bra: how do i log in with my user name or password somename: lol Kame: c0bra: -login UserName Password somename: ./run.sh -login name pw c0bra: ty TobiasIsACommie: mastertheknife: we should kidnap a valve employee and get him to provide us with his dev environment. Just the needed requirements, etc mastertheknife: lol :P NigeyUK: the funny thing is .. Kame: No need to kidnap there TobiasIsACommie: i mean, he probably develops on 9.04, but i don't think anyone has tested with 9.04 Kame: just some simple hacking could do hat Kame: that* maligor: 9.04? NigeyUK: its probably something fairly simple needed to get this showing the fonts .. simple if you have the src files anyway TobiasIsACommie: mastertheknife: i honestly think it would be a good idea to try 9.04 LTS in a virtualbox and see if that doesn't fix some of the problems maligor: it has gcc version strings from ubuntu 904? TobiasIsACommie: maligor: yes, the linux steam is being developed on ubuntu with gnome and compiz, but it doesn't appear to be 10.4 Kame: Steam runs fine for me without compiz TobiasIsACommie: maligor: no, but i think it is way more probably that the developer is using an LTS version of ubuntu than, well, not. maligor: is there any script that pulls it? TobiasIsACommie: maligor: any company of this size should use LTS versions of ubuntu maligor: any company of that size shouldn't use ubuntu in the first place Kame: nothing wrong with ubuntu TobiasIsACommie: Kame: i think mouse clicking works (better?) with compiz, and there should be less flickering. maligor: Debian! Debian! TobiasIsACommie: maligor: hah TobiasIsACommie: :) Kame: Yeah, now that you meant it NigeyUK: hmm might it be worth putting 9.04 on my laptop to try it then Kame: mention* mastertheknife: I dont think its the distro version, i think we are missing files, it can be anything, even a simple steam.cfg (or steam_dev.cfg) option c0bra: i get mine to run but after a few seconds on the steam home i get this: X Error of failed request: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter) TobiasIsACommie: NigeyUK: why not just try a virtualbox? NigeyUK: i need to redo the laptop anyway, itd only take 30mins TobiasIsACommie: mastertheknife: yes there is probably a lot of that. But certain things have been removed from ubuntu from 9.04 to 10.04 TobiasIsACommie: not sure if fonts have been changed, but in increasing boot times they have removed a lot of stuff. TobiasIsACommie: it wouldn't surprise me if fonts "just worked (tm)" on the correct version of ubuntu travisman26: can someone make a tutorial on how to start steam and put it on phoronix NigeyUK: mastertheknife, totally agree with you there, could even be just 1 line from a file we have already.. we just dont know travisman26: i still cant get it to start mastertheknife: I know for a fact that it uses the Arial font, but i tried copying it to my xorg etc NigeyUK: travisman26, i might write 1 later with a script to accompany it TobiasIsACommie: mastertheknife: even if it isn't the distro version as such, it would still be interesting to try it on the same version mastertheknife: in case anyone wants to try, its the arial font and it can be found in mscorefonts package NigeyUK: snap, ive tried same as mastertheknife .. even gone as far as copying all the osx fonts aswell, no joy Kame: [2010-05-09 14:30:24]: [AppID 7] Download OK for file serverbrowser_hist.vdf Kame: [2010-05-09 14:30:32]: [AppID 7] Download OK for file sharedconfig.vdf mastertheknife: I even debugged the program and saw its loading Arial just fine, its in the program's ram and everything Kame: Since when does steam download single files? travisman26: i put the run.sh file the steam.sh and the steam.cfg in it and cant get it to start TobiasIsACommie: mastertheknife: uh, i didn't know that. i thought i had read the entire backlog. somename: i have arial, but i still don't see fonts eXlin: eh, 9.04 is not LTS eXlin: its 8.04 TobiasIsACommie: eXlin: shows how stupid i am, doesn't it? travisman26: its also 10.04 travisman26: lol mastertheknife: 10.04 is new, i doubt they already upgraded to 10.04 eXlin: yea, we got 2 lts realeases. 8.04 and 10.04 TobiasIsACommie: yeah, that is extremely doubtful Kame: Also, I've got a bunch of debugging options for steam.cfg if anyone thinks they'd be useful eXlin: i am maintaining 4 ubuntu 8.04 servers actually... travisman26: i can see ubuntu 11.94 being beasty with steam and crap on it Kvisle: 10.04 is almost two weeks old --- mastertheknife: Kame: sure i won't mind.. travisman26: i like 10.04 TobiasIsACommie: travisman26: i really don't like what they have done with the netbook remix TobiasIsACommie: well, jsut some small minor problems mastertheknife: Kame: send it to me please :) travisman26: oh what did they do with it Kame: I am TobiasIsACommie: well, i can no longer right click on anything in the top bar, or i can, but all the menu items are greyed out TobiasIsACommie: there are a lot of options i can't remove from there (like the email notification) and i can't add my own things up there Kame: http://pastebin.com/bnY0BKfJ c0bra: so nobody has got into steam chat or anything yet then? Kame: I'm not sure what most of them do, and some of them may not even do anything TobiasIsACommie: and terminal launches a new window instead of a new tab when using the keyboard shortcut for "new tab" Kame: We can do steam chat Kame: sort of travisman26: oh i actually liked the netbook remix mastertheknife: Kame: its missing some options such as the Universe or the bootstrapper skip Kame: more or less travisman26: better than befor Kame: Well, those are just the debugger options TobiasIsACommie: ok ok, that's it, they just made it harder for me to make it how i want it travisman26: ya travisman26: ubuntu is about customization Kame: The only options I personally know of that aren't on there is preferredcontentserverids, bootstrapperinhibitall, and universe travisman26: istill like the netbook remix just I hate when they get rid of customuzation TobiasIsACommie: yup, i use it on my macbook travisman26: tobias do you agree with me that gnome is becoming annoying travisman26: they keep making gnome less customizable travisman26: i am dreading gnome shell TobiasTheCommie: not really, i barely use anything that ubuntu offers TobiasTheCommie: i literally have two windows open TobiasTheCommie: a terminal window, and chrome. everything else is overkill for how i use my computer TobiasTheCommie: and yes, by that i mean i don't use nautilus TobiasTheCommie: so i honestly couldn't comment :) travisman26: i hate nautilus eXlin: any1 know where to download ubuntu 8.04? eXlin: cant find link for installation image TobiasTheCommie: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hardy/ eXlin: i have server versions of ubuntu in my hd but... eXlin: thx somename: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hardy/ somename: aww TobiasTheCommie: somename: nah nah nah nah, i'm faster than you somename: damn TobiasTheCommie: in every single respect TobiasTheCommie: trust me, not good with the ladies c0bra: *aspect travisman26: gnome would be awesome if they removed nautilus from gnome c0bra: in evry single aspect* c0bra: looks like you not with me xD travisman26: because its to much like windows with there explorer bs TobiasTheCommie: sorry, yes, bah, stupid me. eXlin: ok, i have installation image in 14mins travisman26: brb TobiasTheCommie: mastertheknife: just wondering, what did you want to tell espes? anything interesting? c0bra: nautilus should not have the buttons instead have /home/ ect TobiasTheCommie: HAH TobiasTheCommie: i can say "in that respect" TobiasTheCommie: (usually preceded by in') a detail or point; "it differs in that respect" Kame: Here's a site with some (badly formatted) steam.cfg options: http://cs.cobra.lv/demos/platform/Steam.cfg Kame: Better formatted: http://pastebin.com/2RDAV64R will: travisman26: when you don't like things you still use them in order to complain? NigeyUK: hm you think virtualbox for karmic will run ok on lucid ? travisman26: um if ubuntu starts using gnome shell lets jsut say i WONT use it eXlin: i hope so ;) mastertheknife: TobiasTheCommie: Something about fonts, nothing important NigeyUK: ill try it and be the guinea pig lol mastertheknife: I think Ubuntu should have came with KDE4 mastertheknife: KDE4 looks so awesome eXlin: i downloaded and installed that. soon 804 should land and i can test to see what will happend... travisman26: i like kde c0bra: kubuntu? somename: whats so good at kde? mastertheknife: this is my kde4 desktop: http://i.imgur.com/qwPSx.jpg somename: it just looks cool somename: but otherwise, sucks c0bra: why not get kubuntu if you want ubuntu with a kde desktop travisman26: thats awesome kde desktop TobiasTheCommie: nice, edit fields travisman26: what theme Kame: That's nothing you can't do with Compiz and Conky! somename: oxygen somename: what wallpaper? mastertheknife: oxygen.. wallpapers are widescreen wallpapers from: http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/downloads/date/any/ travisman26: if anyone would be kind enough to make a tutorial on phoronox on how to run steam that would be awesome somename: nice... somename: is bookmarking the wallpaper-site NigeyUK: eXlin, NigeyUK: The following NEW packages will be installed NigeyUK: libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libsdl-ttf2.0-0 virtualbox-3.1 NigeyUK: this'll be fun lol will: people are still waiting for others to do things for them instead of DIY somename: i found mastertheknife's wallpaper http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/details/2235/atlantic_west_coast.html mastertheknife: :P travisman26: mastertheknife may you put something on phoronix that shows how to succesfully run steam plzzzzz Wait4steam: Hi all somename: steam doesnt even work atm dashcloud: travisman26: what's the point in a guide for something that doesn't do anything useful? c0bra: it runs but you cant do anything with it travisman26: so I ca see it dashcloud: search on youtube for videos then travisman26: i like things that dotn work somename: there are enough screenies showing them dashcloud: several folks have posted some videos showing it working briefly Kame: Library tab :D http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7756/201005082018061024x680s.png travisman26: but still c0bra: nice came, keep up the good work c0bra: mine doesnot stay up, it closes shortly after i started it :( mastertheknife: c0bra: have you applied the 2a patch ? Wait4steam: Is this hacking usefull anyway? We can't play anything without an official valve client anyway, can't we? Kame: We can use the chat features! mastertheknife: Kame: you tried chatting? c0bra: yeh mastertheknife: Kame: but you cant see what you type\receive xorl: Kame, Nice c0bra: it loads, but just crashes Kame: Yeah, but why would that stop us? mastertheknife: c0bra: have you applied the vgui 2a patch Kame: He asked if the hacking was useful Kame: and if fonts ever get displayed Kame: then it will be Kame: because of chat c0bra: mastertheknife, yes mastertheknife: Wait4steam: Its a waste of time, but we are excited and looking for evidences if valve is working on a client Kame: The backtrace from the library tab crashing after it was only open for a split second was interesting xorl: mastertheknife, I think we have substantial evidence haha xorl: well, evidence enough to suggest so TobiasTheCommie: mastertheknife: can other people receive the chat messages? Kame: TobiasTheCommie: Yes mastertheknife: TobiasTheCommie: Yep, i believe they can. Wait4steam: Kk Kame: And they can send them to you Kame: But, well, you don't have any text so.... mastertheknife: I have to go.. be back later, if anyone wants to try gets fonts working, its the Arial font and you can get it from the mscorefonts package TobiasTheCommie: mastertheknife: nice. good that it is just the presentation that is fubar, and not the underlying code somename: i got arial installed and it still doesnt work will: Valve won't work on a linux client for Steam because almost no commercial game are made for GNU/Linux OS Kame: Steam already has a lot of games that have linux ports Sir_Brizz: indeed will: and no publisher will support GNU/Linux because the current market is too small TobiasTheCommie: will: so, the fact that they ARE wokring a linux client doesn't disprove your argument that they won't? Sir_Brizz: there is no way to know that Kame: Now you're just trollin' will: with financial crysis the biz won't take any risk TobiasTheCommie: will: then how do you explain the updates? Kame: Trooooolllliiiiiiing xorl: well xorl: put it this way xorl: for them to *develop* a binary at all, cost them money. xorl: so, financial crisis or not, they've already spent time on it xorl: and time == money. xorl: So all the facts are there already. c0bra: Corrupt JPEG data: 57 extraneous bytes before marker 0xdb Kame: That's normal Kame: happens on the windows client to xorl: You don't build a dev environment (time + money), Hire a developer for mac or for this in peticular (costs money), or publish a binary (time + money), without further intentions c0bra: XIO: fatal IO error 0 (Success) on X server ":0.0" travisman26: lol this page is so funny http://supportwiki.steampowered.com/wiki/Steam_for_Linux travisman26: the steam team is such a lier NigeyUK: c0bra, same as on mine c0bra: yhyh, clientreg.blob del fixes it doesent it? xorl: travisman26, not a liar, they haven't even publically acknowledged this package :) will: xorl: their intentions is to make money on Apple fanboys will: that's the facts xorl: will, Not just that. TobiasTheCommie: will: you mean the apple fanboys that use linux and not apple? Kame: xorl somename: linuxusers got the most money...ha! Kame: Stop feeding trolls TobiasTheCommie: will: got evidence to back up your facts travisman26: still a liar because they said there is currently no plans c0bra: why are apple users so stuck up anyways? xorl: Kame, I like it :D travisman26: bull crap xorl: Kame, gives me exercise :D xorl: Well mental exercise lol TobiasTheCommie: Kame: aww, come now, what is better than baiting trolls? TobiasTheCommie: especially when they are as incompetent as this one appears to be Kame: He started out okay xorl: I'd rather just poke a troll with a stick :) xorl: they're funny Kame: but then just ignored points instead of refuting them with broken logic dashcloud: why not use the good ole slap? will: call that a troll won't change the real facts of the market xorl: what facts of the market? TobiasTheCommie: will: you have provided no facts xorl: All you've provided is heresay lol will: Linux commercial gaming is almost dead xorl: ... TobiasTheCommie: will: evidence? TobiasTheCommie: lacking! xorl: Just because unreal tournament 3 didn't come to linux doesn;'t mean you get your nickers in a twist :P xorl: lol Kame: Now see, here a good troll would cite the decline of quake 1 sales Kame: and how they stopped updating quake 2 linux port xorl: HAHAHA xorl: i almost fell out of my chair Kame xorl: this is sad :( Kame: haha xorl: sad day for trolls world wide NigeyUK: will .. politely.. stfu? :) xorl: Trolls have stooped to an all new mental low. TobiasTheCommie: Kame: bahahaha xorl: I thought they couldn't get that bad. xorl: We're all doomed :( will: NigeyUK: politely and shortly shut up NigeyUK: hah xorl: that was original haha TobiasTheCommie: xorl: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/717889/invader_zim_the_doom_song/ xorl: he rebutted you with your own statement NigeyUK: lol, not even worthy of a reply that c0bra: nedm is discusting TobiasTheCommie: will: i have one thing to say to you TobiasTheCommie: you are wrong TobiasTheCommie: You are wrong. You are not right. The statement you made has no truth to it whatsoever. Your statement is inconsistent with the actual universe. You have not given accurate information. The information is, in fact, innacurate in every way. On a scale of 0 to 100, your statement has a truth value of 0. No aspect of it is consistent with any aspect of the world. You have failed fully and completely to make a truthful statement. You are the TobiasTheCommie: will: care to prove me wrong? eXlin: results with ubuntu 8.04 clean install so far: http://pastebin.com/LrMvAMra somename: err xorl: TobiasTheCommie, he's on the googles troll failing right now Flyser_: eXlin: run "bash ./steam.sh" xorl: TobiasTheCommie, probably cruising 4chan for a super sekret link to his troll communion haha TobiasTheCommie: troll failing or troll flailing? xorl: Don't think it's flailing, he would have cited things properly TobiasTheCommie: xorl: or encyclopedia dramatica will: I'm not gonna prove that you guys are a bunch of waiters TobiasTheCommie: ah, so i take that to mean that we aren't TobiasTheCommie: thanks Kame: .... we server food for a living? Kame: serve* xorl: Kame, I was about to ask the same xorl: Well, in that case, I work at a 5 star resteraunt downtown new york xorl: make about 300 dollars in tips a day, it's a great job. xorl: lol eXlin: Flyser_: same issue Kame: run chmod +x steam.sh linux32/steam somename: your mom is so fat, she got rick roll'd twice in a row Flyser_: eXlin: oops. Kame is right TobiasTheCommie: somename: your mom is so fat she had to change to ntfs NigeyUK: eXlin, got 9.04 installing in virtualbox here somename: actually chuck norris said that its now called "old technology filesystem" somename: he's right TobiasTheCommie: if chuck norris said it, it must be true somename: of course. c0bra: hehe eXlin: not too good progress even with asciiwolfs run.sh. http://pastebin.com/W8WKVZwm Flyser_: I guess libc is too old Kame: eXlin Flyser_: no I am wrong. Kame: are you sure you have a linux32 folder? Flyser_: is talking bullshit and shuts up. Sir_Brizz: eXlin: that looks like the same issue I had on my machine before I install ia32-libs Kame: Also, are you sure you're CDed into the steam folder? eXlin: ah, might be that. thas brizz eXlin: yes kame. both positive Kame: Hrm Kame: I got nothin' then Kame: You using 64 bit? eXlin: yea Kame: I thought you were doing a clean install to try and match the Valve environment? eXlin: ok, it started to update Sir_Brizz: \o/ eXlin: i was doing that... Kame: Somehow I don't think they're using 64 bit :p eXlin: true, good point. Sir_Brizz: well Sir_Brizz: it's a 32 bit binary c0bra: check if there are any 64 bit binarys Flyser_: there are none c0bra: uh eXlin: major opcode of failed request 1: (witch is X_CreateWindow) c0bra: eXlin, few of us get it c0bra: dont know why c0bra: was the window created then crashed? eXlin: nope eXlin: tho i cant enable compiz when doing it in virtual machine. tho that shouldn't matter too mutch c0bra: did they release an update? i got an update michaellarabel: might have new info to report on Valve Linux tomorrow.... :D Kame: Looks like it Kame: Curse you and your forshadowiing michaellarabel! xorl: michaellarabel, haha NigeyUK: guys NigeyUK: theyve updated again NigeyUK: "linux" joris_: just now ? NigeyUK: { NigeyUK: "version" "1273433425" NigeyUK: "public_all" NigeyUK: literally in the last 5 mins Modplan: yup, downloading update now c0bra: yh, i told you c0bra: patch still works joris_: NigeyUK: that's cooool :p Kame: Yeah Kame: Which package did they update? Flyser_: fonts?^^ NigeyUK: not sure Kame: There wouldn't be fonts anyway Kame: if you're patching c0bra: ZOMG, it think there is a VALVe developer in here, who agrees? Kame: the patch pretty much skips fonts I think Kame: anyone know which package they updated? NigeyUK: and the ui looks different Azerthoth: changes channel name from #phoronix to #selfflagellatingvalvegrouppies Modplan: Well, Gabe is everywhere technically c0bra: haha c0bra: thats horrible xD c0bra: hes like moon 2.0 c0bra: rofl Modplan: lulz, I couldn't resist joris_: and if there's really a linux developer behind that, why would they release the updates ? To buzz ? To make us work ? c0bra: hehe, still funny, i know hes fat but still an awsome guy joris_: xD c0bra: maybe to develop the client? joris_: yes but they can do that internally eXlin: i got really dark black splash screen with steam's logo and then it crashed on my lucid c0bra: ^^ c0bra: exit error? c0bra: something about x server? NigeyUK: Kame Flyser_: NigeyUK: screenshots! feed us with screenshots ;) NigeyUK: they updated the bins package, diff filesize NigeyUK: working on it Flyser_ c0bra: figure out what they did to it Kame: Or we could just look at dates Kame: Looks like all they updated is steamclient.so c0bra: oh c0bra: they need to fix fonts so we can go in steamchat x#d eXlin: linuxfont.cpp (378) : Assertion Failed: implement CLinuxFont::GetTextSize kind of errors Modplan: still errors when using without patch Flyser_: has anyone even tried to fix the font errors by himself? (with a binary patch thatis) Kame: People have been looking into it joris_: yes joris_: a long time NigeyUK: http://www.nigey.co.uk/Steam.png joris_: and they didn't find anything Flyser_: okay .. c0bra: without a patch? Azerthoth: makes #valvdiots channel joris_: NigeyUK: try to connect ? eXlin: NigeyUK: same kind as i got NigeyUK: cant do anything, it crashes right after displaying that box c0bra: NigeyUK, is that without the patch? Kame: Not that they didn't find anything, they're just still looking into it Kame: debugging asm is hard work joris_: NigeyUK: in this case add "-login pseudo pass" :\ NigeyUK: its from updating itself since i ran the ver with the phoronix patches, so god knows .. lol eXlin: c0bra: attleast i patched installation but nothing after update Kame: Once it updates you have to repatch c0bra: uh, i patched vgui but non others and it acts like normal Kame: But you can get a login window without a patch now, which is cool c0bra: :P Flyser_: Kame: really? sweet Modplan: Can login without patch and it creates initial window, but then seg fault Modplan: and closes c0bra: looks like there working hard on it for release with the mac client (mybe) c0bra: or maybe there just gna announce it at that time joris_: Modplan: this was the case even before this update Modplan: aaah Flyser_: I dont think they will release it so soon. They will start a closed beta first c0bra: not for me Kame: Modplan: Hmm? I don't see the steam main window joris_: but the login windows is still full black ? Kame: unless you mean the initial login window? Modplan: Yeah, initial login window c0bra: inital login window he means Kame: I can see the login window fine Kame: move it and everything joris_: cool :) joris_: that's new Modplan: you using patch? Did mine without Kame: Yeah, without the patch c0bra: be back soon Kame: I think without the patch anyway, but I may have changed some other stuff Kame: lemme grab a new copy NigeyUK: mines screwed, crashing after login Kame: Yeah, it crashes after login unpatched joris_: and with the patch ? Modplan: damn, trying it a second time without patch and now it just seg faults without logging in nor any windows NigeyUK: patched .. Kame: Ah, I see why mine works to the login window unpatched Kame: at one point or another I created symlinks to all the .res files with uppercase characters Kame: with the symlinks in all lowercase NigeyUK: i had an odd feeling they were gonna update it tday Kame: joris_: With the patch you get just as far as you did before joris_: ah :( joris_: but how did people manage to get to the main screen ? eXlin: i run patch and i get past that splash screen (suprise), but i get only really small window what isnt drawing properly and this crashes eXlin: i get CLinuxSurface::CreateHTMLWindow needs ImplError: texture file 'graphics/RadUnselStd' does not exist or is invalid Kame: That's not what's crashing it Kame: Those are normal errors joris_: "normal" lol teledhil: you should have graphics/radUnselStd.tga, just copy it as RadUnselStd.tga cracker: i am getting this error after patching cracker: [----] !!! Fatal Error: Steam failed to load: *SteamStartEngine(0xbf96ce58) failed with error 1: CMultiFieldBlob(pSerialized): Bad field - extends past end of blob cracker: any idea? NigeyUK: looking :S TobiasTheCommie: hm, so valve isn't working on steam for linux TobiasTheCommie: riiiighhhtt TobiasTheCommie: stupid troll NigeyUK: pmsl TobiasTheCommie: pmsl? NigeyUK: well with the 2a patch, the ui crashes as before, and looks different christian_lappy: mastertheknife: how the heck did you get past ogin screen ? christian_lappy: mastertheknife: did valve bring some new functions in ? eXlin: well one way (attleast were) was to give -login username password parameters eXlin: and it still returns info about successful login. joris_: i confirm joris_: but it crashes anyway NigeyUK: aye ive had successful login Kosava: so this this list of games will be on linux http://store.steampowered.com/sub/2546/ Kosava: ? christian_lappy: ? christian_lappy: Kosava: that llink does nothing eXlin: lol, it lists valve complete pack :) eXlin: yes, hopefully Kosava: yea christian_lappy: not for me joris_: and he's right eXlin: oen of example of running games (naturally..) Kosava: what other games we can exapt for linux Modplan: ID Tech games (Doom 3, ET:QW) are possible Flyser_: postal Flyser_: new releases like portal 2 eXlin: well, dunno really. at beginning those who allready has linux versions but havent been able to sell them throught steam to linux joris_: Kosava: this : http://www.vossey.com/news/Exclu---La-liste-des-jeux-Steam-sous-Mac--i16687.htm Flyser_: world of goo Modplan: Penumbra games mattgirv: Plants vs Zombies! Kosava: nice mattgirv: and most of the PopCap games eXlin: well, think id woudl be stupid not to take benefit of hype for steam linxu client and put doom etc... on sale Kosava: good collection for beggining Kosava: i hope it will be some racing games :D Modplan: LGP and tuxgames may not be too happy in some cases Modplan: if steam were to undercut their prices... eXlin: well, i see no reasons why LGP couldn't start selling games throught steam and dump their own drm mattgirv: Oops my bad, PopCap haven't released for Linux yet :/ Afaik it was in the works though. Kosava: competition is good thing :) Modplan: I'd forgotten LGP actually had rights to resale, not just did the porting... eXlin: Modplan: i think it depens a lot what publisher want's and how good deal lgp can do with them christian_lappy: hopefully say will give us more infos after the mac release... eXlin: what you think how mutch success of mac version is affecting linux one? Kano: Deanjo: where are your benchmarks? Deanjo: For the GTX 480? Deanjo: or the Phenom x6 Kano: both Kano: i only see anonymous Deanjo: The GTX-480 I'm still waiting on the waterblock Kano: you want to cool em with water, interesting idea Deanjo: The phenom I'm still installing the various pts tests (and fixing bugs :P) Kano: nobody with php knowledge fixed the ram monitoring code Kano: i know bash not php.. Kano: so somebody else should fix that Deanjo: Ya got coolit assembling a waterblock for the GTX-480 Deanjo: Had it in for a bit but waiting for the the rest of the setup before permanently installing it Kano: how much could you oc your x6? Deanjo: Still haven't installed it yet, getting PTS installed and got to bench the 955 BE first Kano: basically those cpus are easy to oc as the multi is open Kano: no extra fast ram needed Deanjo: Ya, I know the 955 can OC to 4.2 on air if I push it Kano: prime stable on all cores? Deanjo: ya riisen: nice Deanjo: She does get a bit warm at that speed. :P Kano: well i could go up to 3.7 ghz prime stable with x3380 and 3.8 for some benchmarks - on simple air cooler Kano: maybe i need better cooling Deanjo: The cooler I have on it is the Thermalright Xtreem 120 in a push pull r4: ok i think its time for some tf2 Kano: freezer 7 pro only r4: :) mastertheknife: Hey i wasn't here, didi hear right? they updated the binaries? eXlin: yea eXlin: it dont get past login anymore Deanjo: is thinking that a handbrake test wouldn't be hard to add to pts eXlin: http://www.nigey.co.uk/Steam.png is ss eXlin: from nigeyuk eXlin: by* Deanjo: Hey Kano, picked up one of those Hauppague HD PVR's a couple of weeks ago, works pretty nice. eXlin: tho it looks same on me Kano: eXlin: thx for login+pw ;) eXlin: uw Kano: may i play yor games now *g* Modplan: nigey forgot to remove his login details lulz eXlin: he did? lol. tho i was thinking to update my screenshot also... eXlin: and hes not first today to give away login info today eXlin: NigeyUk: change your password mastertheknife: Sigh, i hate when they do this mastertheknife: only update 1 binary instead of all Modplan: NigeyUK at least remove the picture mastertheknife: it breaks function offsets eXlin: nah, too late. he should change password eXlin: like 100 ppl know it by now NigeyUK: pass is changed and pic removed, was done almost as soon as it went up eXlin: ah, ok NigeyUK: hehe Kano: Deanjo: does the hd variant work with ivtv? NigeyUK: thats twice ive done it, im going for a record 3rd time by the end of the night Kano: NigeyUK: well you only have to try a few numbers at the end, right ;) eXlin: http://burnover.net/steam1.png NigeyUK: haha not quite ;) eXlin: there is mine of same window eXlin: see no password ;) NigeyUK: im surprised you can your text in the term mattgirv: eXlin: I can see your parental control password though :) NigeyUK: that would kill my eyes lol mattgirv: Whatever that is. heh mastertheknife: Everyone: I get it segfault, but after re-applying the _2a patch it works just fine. NigeyUK: lol mastertheknife: I got it segfault* eXlin: lol eXlin: true eXlin: tho only 5 first letter eXlin: and hit is its for my little brother's wow account mattgirv: ;) eXlin: cant do anythign with it without knowing actual password mattgirv: eXlin: Don't worry, I pastebinned my irssi config the other day, forgetting I had my nickserv password in it. mattgirv: :p mastertheknife: So far the oldest file is libsteam.so mastertheknife: its from 10th march Deanjo: the hd pvr works pretty much with any source Kano. It uses the component out of the video source (or composite/svideo) Kano: Deanjo: no i mean the linux driver Kano: here in germany there are usually no hd sources analog mastertheknife: eXlin: do you a .res error in your console? Deanjo: ya it uses the ivtv Kano: you use the usb variant? Deanjo: That's the only variant Kano: ah eXlin: only clinuxsurface Kano: is it possible to use use just the encoder? eXlin: ::createhtmlwindow mastertheknife: eXlin: is the vgui2 patch you applied ends with _2 or _2a Kame: mastertheknife: At least it'll pull up a window without any patching now, that's some improvement Deanjo: You mean without capturing Kano? ie transcoding eXlin: with that screenshot none of patch were applied after upgrade mastertheknife: Kame: that was also in the version from yesterday, Kame: Oh, was it? bluekoala: joins #valvdiots Kano: Deanjo: yes, faster than realtime of course eXlin: after patch with 2a i get windows (those 3) but they close before they are on too long Kano: Deanjo: can you upload a sample? 13.5 mbps for hd is not that much Deanjo: Well yes and no. You can in windows using graphedit, not in linux, and your pretty limited to what the USB connection can handle for bandwidth mastertheknife: Yeah, Yesterday as soon the update came out i worked on trying to get it to work to create a patch, and unlike the previous version, it seemed that the only thing that stopped it from working is the libraries failing to load so i did the workaround i used in the previous version and it worked.. but now we found out today that PRELOADing all .so files also gets the libraries to load properly, so steamui patch is obsolete Deanjo: Ya I could do that later Kano The_Muh: why you don't start a wiki? eXlin: and i have patched only with vgui2 one ending with 2a The_Muh: for the steam-linux-stuff mastertheknife: eXlin: thats strange. all GUIs work good here.. eXlin: well think this is changing bit too fast atm... mastertheknife: eXlin: Tried deleting clientregistry.blob ? Deanjo: 13.5 is only on fixed bit rate. It can handle higher peaks when running VBR (up to 22Mbit IIRC) eXlin: mastertheknife: http://pastebin.com/riWQyUFB is output with password and username covered Deanjo: Trying to edit the streams properly in linux, however, is next to impossible. mastertheknife: eXlin: i will try to reproduce it.. but anyways, you can prevent it from updating and put the old steamclient.so back mastertheknife: eXlin: add this to your steam.cfg: BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable now you can put the older steamclient.so back for now eXlin: it's cool. i have seen that window. i just want to "live in bleeding edge" and see if there happends upgrades ;) mastertheknife: eXlin: we just need to sit back and watch the client getting more and more in shape mastertheknife: eXlin: steamui.so and vgui2_s.so are the important files mastertheknife: eXlin: well if you want i can tell you how to get a backtrace and you can pastebin it and show me mastertheknife: eXlin: cd to steam folder, LD_LIBRARY_PATH=linux32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH LD_PRELOAD=echo linux32/*.so gdb linux32/steam
mastertheknife: eXlin: in gdb type: -r login and then after it crashes type "bt" and then copy all (except user/pass) to pastebin.com
Sir_Brizz: but now we found out today that PRELOADing all .so files also gets the libraries to load properly, so steamui patch is obsolete
Sir_Brizz: what?
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: Yeah, its obsolete
Sir_Brizz: do you get that "Error the package couldn't be preloaded" thing?
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: yeah you can ignore those
Sir_Brizz: oh
eXlin: undefined command -r?
Sir_Brizz: without the steamui patch I get nothing
mastertheknife: well its ok to use the steamui then in that case, they accomplish the same thing
Ivanovic: was not really following in the last hours
Ivanovic: how are things looking atm?
eXlin: mastertheknife: http://pastebin.com/4RPpVp6h
Ivanovic: any great new relevations?
mastertheknife: eXlin: killall -9 steam
eXlin: mastertheknife: still same exit code
mastertheknife: strange
eXlin: and i run killall -9 steam. and i hunted before that allready all steam instances throught system monitor
mastertheknife: eXlin: check in /tmp
mastertheknife: eXlin: it makes 2 files there
eXlin: ok.
eXlin: wondering if this has soemthing to do with multicore: CAsyncIOManager: 0 single object alertable sleeps, 1 multi object alertable sleeps
mastertheknife: eXlin: when a multithreaded program shuts down it has to do it cleanly, it signals all threads to close and waits (sleeps) until they all close
mastertheknife: its normal.
Kano: mastertheknife: did you emerge compiz?
mastertheknife: Kano: no :/
Kano: without it looks like crap
Kano: flickers all the time with kwin (kde3)
eXlin: still same issue. i did killall again and hunted all where was 'steam' and deleted them
eXlin: still same exitcode
Kano: rm -vrf ~/[sS]team
Kano: i added that to my start script
NigeyUK: its updating again
eXlin: it is?
NigeyUK: larger file size to
mastertheknife: updating again???
Kano: mastertheknife: you get steam update news
NigeyUK: it was 26480 earlier
mastertheknife: it doesnt update here again
Kano: thats the title of the window
mastertheknife: Kano: hey.. no i didnt
NigeyUK: hmm odd, its def updating here
mastertheknife: xorl: why ?
xorl: n/m
eXlin: didn't update on me neither
CyberKitsune: Steam for linux updated today
NigeyUK: hm
CyberKitsune: and broked the patched libs that made it run =P
xorl: yeah
CyberKitsune: =O
xorl: but the forms are gone
xorl: lol
xorl: i see the steam graphics now w/out corruption
CyberKitsune: Do I have to reapply the bspatches then?
mastertheknife: CyberKitsune: just vgui2 (2a) probably
Kame: I didn't get another update?
mastertheknife: Kame: there is no update
xorl: damnit whats the url for 2a again
mastertheknife: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s-1273290921_2a.bspatch
xorl: note: they think theres another update
xorl: if you remove *ANY* file before starting it
Kame: No it doesn't, it just unzips it again
xorl: it did that for me
xorl: wow yeah
xorl: only need the vgui patch to run now :D
mastertheknife: Go west.. when the sky is all blue
wait4steam: so the steam linux client is still updated from valve? i read on phoronix they delweted it from the server
mastertheknife: wait4steam: Yesterday it had a major update, and today a small unrelated update
d2kx: i take it you have seen the bins_linux.zip update that was just released an hour or so ago?
mastertheknife: wait4steam: nice nick :)
wait4steam: so it's back on the server? nice!
mastertheknife: d2kx: only steamclient.so updated, this is a file used on dedicated servers
wait4steam: ^^
mastertheknife: wait4steam: for over 3+ weeks
wait4steam: i hope valve really realease steam on linux +9 all sorce games
Ivanovic: *IF* valve really does release as well as some of the source engine based games, 2010 will really become a year for the linux desktop
Nevtus: if Steam comes, so will the Source games (and perhaps the Goldsrc games)
d2kx: wait4steam: i think at this stage we shouldnt take about hope but about possible timeframes
d2kx: -take +talk
Nevtus: got a point. it's more like when :)
mastertheknife: Nevtus: GoldSrc is old but fairly simple to port because it already uses OpenGL, but because of its age i'm not sure they will bother, at least not at first. I would really like them to port it though because i like CS 1.6
d2kx: the first half-life 1 mac port was announced in 1999 i think
mastertheknife: check out that video, it responds to mouse clicks etc
will: If people need steam just buy MacOS X or Windows 7
Nevtus: I think for launch I could see them concentrating on Source. I'd say the orange box + L4D 1+2 + CS:S
d2kx: never happened because valve wasnt happy with the quality
Kano: mastertheknife: i hope the do, thats the only thing i enabled in steam
wait4steam: thx 4 the video link. but what of that stuff is hacked and what is from valve?
will: Steam for GNU/Linux will only be a dream
will: for waiters
The_Muh: do you know that Postal 3 will use the Source-Engine? AND postal 3 will released for linux
mastertheknife: wait4steam: all from valve, and now you can even get to that window without any patch, but there is a segmentation fault and some other program errors
wait4steam: well i think they have to realease steam for linux when portal 3 arrives
wait4steam: k
godofgrunts: Portal 3?
NigeyUK: mines not segfaulted yet .. its jus sitting there merrily
The_Muh: Postal
Kano: wait4steam: poStal
wait4steam: postal i mean
will: The_Muh: in time we'll see
The_Muh: not portal
godofgrunts: Ah
mastertheknife: NigeyUK: because you used the vgui patch probably
godofgrunts: Scared me there lol
Nevtus: would Valve Running with Sissors to have their future plans years before though?
NigeyUK: the right 1 this time..lol
Nevtus: *would Valve trust
r4: weird...steam thru wine wont launch any of my games all of a sudden
godofgrunts: Do you guys help with the Test-suite?
The_Muh: maybe you can write a mail to running with scirssors...
wait4steam: but steam + all valve games would push gaming on linux
The_Muh: *-r
wait4steam: sofar there are so less good commercial games
wait4steam: best are doom 3 and world of goo so fasr
Kano: NigeyUK: rm -vrf ~/[sS]team
x-pilot: wait4steam: It will push even w/o VALVe's games
Kano: did you do that?
d2kx: godofgrunts: PTS can be discussed here, but please note that due to recent news the channel is overloaded with Steam (Valve) discussions
will: I'm not pretty fan of the Valve spyware
wait4steam: x-pilot: steam without any ganmes is very useless ^^
Conan_Kudo: 「名探偵コナン」
godofgrunts: d2kx: Thanks. I know, I've been in here talking about steam a lot. I just can't get the Test-Suite to work on Ubuntu 10.04 or Arch to save my life.
CyberKitsune: has anyone tried -install on the script?
wait4steam: steam > microsoft live > ubisoft shit
CyberKitsune: -install 440 for TF2 for example
Conan_Kudo: will: Steam is one of our best shots at getting more gaming on the platform
x-pilot: wait4steam: I didn't said "any" ;) I think, that Indy developers will be happy anyway (if Steam will be released, of course ;) )
Ivanovic: will: though steam is accepted in the industry
will: Steam is a proprietary spyware to sell games
Ivanovic: will: leading to publishers looking at the results of steam on linux and on the sales numbers
mastertheknife: Try -login -install -240 i heard it opens a fullscreen
Conan_Kudo: will: at least Steam doesn't hook into the lowest levels of the OS like all the other crap out that
Ivanovic: so *if* it is a success (which is likely) it will make publishers think about offering a linux/mac version, too
Conan_Kudo: s/that/there/
godofgrunts: I wish Valve would release sales numbers.
Conan_Kudo: unfortunately
Conan_Kudo: Valve is not publicly traded
Conan_Kudo: they have no obligation unless under a lawsuit
godofgrunts: Yeah I know.
wait4steam: the question for me is, how do they solve the updates? install steam as normal user? or install steam as su and have to do any update as su? or install steam as su and install the updates as normal user (however that can be done)
will: Conan_Kudo: how do you know it's closed dude!
mastertheknife: wait4steam: those are minor problems
godofgrunts: wait4steam: Why would you have to do that?
Conan_Kudo: will: you can easily find out these kind of things
mastertheknife: let them port first
Ivanovic: wait4steam: since you most likely have to install the games locally, too: most likely everything as user
godofgrunts: Exactly
Conan_Kudo: one: you can analyze what the steam launcher does when it is started on either Mac or Windows or Linux
godofgrunts: I would imagine they'd just make a steam group
Conan_Kudo: two: Steam on Linux works quite well as non-root
wait4steam: i would like to install basic steam as su for all users and updates and stuff to local users but ok. this are minor problems :D
mastertheknife: From what i know, in Mac its installed in the local user folder
Conan_Kudo: it would fail hard if it needed to access lower level parts of the system
will: Conan_Kudo: you can easily be trapped
mastertheknife: to get opengl access, your user has to be a member of the video group, at least in gentoo
will: it's good for the biz
Conan_Kudo: and three: on Linux, you can block off what Steam can access through layers like SELinux and AppArmor
Conan_Kudo: as well as user process isolation
Nevtus: if it needed root assess no one would use it, I doubt it would though. There is always the risk of losing what you've paid for since Valve has control of everything you buy with it
Conan_Kudo: very true
Conan_Kudo: but other solutions are just as bad
Nevtus: I know, I want Steam to come
Conan_Kudo: the companies can send remote kill signals to their software to make it asplode
Nevtus: I'm just aware of the risks
The_Muh: chroot it
The_Muh: =)
godofgrunts: It's not going to be that difficult guys. Don't any of your play Nexuiz or OpenArena?
Nevtus: The_Muh: the problem is not being able to play the games you've paid for, not it jacking your box
godofgrunts: Doesn't require anything special to run
Nevtus: godofgrunts: we know the games don't need special things to run
will: I would prefer buying games in webstore instead using the Valve spyware
mastertheknife: Needing root to update, where installed, etc = minor problems, they shouldn
mastertheknife: they shouldn't think of this as a reason not to port
godofgrunts: Nevtus: Then what are you worried about? If it needs root to update they'll make it call gksu
Nevtus: godofgrunts: Steam has control of everything you buy through it, it is basically well implemented DRM game service
will: Even Blizzard have an eStore
eXlin: will: well valve isn't really that bad and it handles backup's and such. no need to track where your game installers "buyed from online stores" are located and have you remembered to backup them...
Nevtus: it does have pros such as being able to redownload your games on any computer that can run Steam, but you are under complete control from Valve (but they have a decent track record so far)
r4: http://pastebin.com/yFBBZDkD <---any idea what this might mean? im running steam thru wine and trying to launch a game. (it has worked before and quit recently too)
godofgrunts: Nevtus: Right, but was does that have to do with your system? The only thing steam will need access to is the directories it uses.
godofgrunts: r4: Looks like wine can't make a registry entry?
will: godofgrunts: Steam could track all your process like PunkBuster
Nevtus: godofgrunts: ... it's nothing to do with the system. Games you buy through steam can be remotely turned off by Valve
eXlin: and if it needs sudo to update it's propably to just access /usr/local/steam folder or w/e they decided to install it...
Sir_Brizz: any program you run could do that
Kano: http://pastie.org/private/7beyz4mfvy36lwx3v4kwtg
Kano: mastertheknife: ^ adds just one patch and removed the folders on start
will: it's not an Valve exclusive feature
Kano: you can call it with -login option if you like
Nevtus: r4: I just fired up Steam in Wine and I was able to run games fine.
will: Nevtus: It makes me think about Amazon Kindle
NigeyUK: nite guys, catch you all tomorrow :)
mastertheknife: Kano: nice :)
r4: Nevtus: yeah im sure its a problem on my end...buts its random and sudden
Kano: but i would really enable compiz first...
Nevtus: r4: maybe try a new .wine?
r4: hrm i need to reboot for a kernel update anyway...i had some weird error prior to this...im going to reboot and hope its magic :) brb
The_Muh: reboot for solving problems? sounds like...
The_Muh: *smile*
Nevtus: it's a new kernel reboot though
The_Muh: yeah... but he also hope that wine (steam) works after that
Kano: wine works fine with steam, withtout any reboot
Kano: why should that help?
Nevtus: I think it's just a problem on r4's end
will: because Microsoft told him to reboot
The_Muh: here steam runs crappy in wine -> tiling
Nevtus: I use a tiling WM too, but it supports floating clients too ;)
The_Muh: hm... dont like floatet windows - and it does not really help
Nevtus: for Steam it does
r4: The_Muh: yeah i know its bad...but it is a windows app (as of now) after all :P
Nevtus: I doubt the native Steam client would be tested under tiling WMs
Nevtus: The_Muh: what WM are you using right now?
The_Muh: wtf does the packages "schroedinger"? Oo
r4: brb!
Sir_Brizz: I'd be surprised if it's tested under more than Gnome, KDE, and maybe XFCE
CyberKitsune: So yeah
The_Muh: ah... okay... weird name for a codec
CyberKitsune: Steam isn't launching anymore yay
Conan_Kudo: schroedinger is Dirac optimized codec
Nevtus: I'd think it'd only be tested under Ubuntu with Gnome
Sir_Brizz: there is no reason for them to not cover at least the top 2, if not the top 3, window managers
The_Muh: if it runs in i3 i'm lucky
Conan_Kudo: let's not forget that most WM support a subset of the same standard
Ivanovic: have you ever heard the magical word "beta test"?
Conan_Kudo: nope
Nevtus: The_Muh: switch to Awesome WM ;)
Conan_Kudo: it doesn't exist in our happy little world
Ivanovic: this is where they likely plan to cover different combinations
Ivanovic: ;)
The_Muh: Nevtus: i like i3, why i should change?
Conan_Kudo: everything automagically works anyway
Nevtus: programs that need floating like Steam?
Nevtus: plus you still keep the tiling enviroment
The_Muh: i3 also can floating
Ivanovic: off to bed, n8
Nevtus: I see, thought you were complaining the Steam didn't work
The_Muh: but wine runs crappy here (for example: warcaft III causes 90% CPU)
Nevtus: that's weird
The_Muh: wine 1.1.44-1
Sir_Brizz: is there a way to use the Warcraft 3 mac client to run better in wine?
Conan_Kudo: nope
Conan_Kudo: technically
Conan_Kudo: it should be possible to make Mac versions run on Linux
The_Muh: wine can execute MacOS-binarys?
Conan_Kudo: but nobody has yet contribute the Mach-O binary loader to the Linux kernel
Kame: Do the windows versions not have opengl?
Conan_Kudo: and GNUStep has not been built to load from a Mach-O loader
Nevtus: I remember using the -opengl flag the last time I played Warcraft III in wine
The_Muh: good idea
The_Muh: will try it tomorrow
Conan_Kudo: Wine can only execute PE/COFF (Windows) binaries
Nevtus: in fact I actually remember it running like crap in default DirectX mode
Nevtus: even the menu was slow
eXlin: business suggestion for phonorix: product witch updates info once in a minute in case confirmation from valve or successfull run throught compability fixes. after sutch update it would start flashing red light and making alarming sounds ;)
eXlin: but i'm off. cya...
The_Muh: Clonk Endeavour runs better in DirectX than in OpenGL... (just an example)
Conan_Kudo: still Phoronix hasn't reported on the Humble Indie Bundle
Conan_Kudo: I'm really surprised
wait4steam: so, where can i get the latest steam binaries?
Kano: Conan_Kudo: its not steam ;)
Kano: wait4steam: run that in an emtry dir: http://pastie.org/private/7beyz4mfvy36lwx3v4kwtg
The_Muh: goes offline (my weechat runs on a external server, so - i'll be stay here...)
The_Muh: gn8
Kano: be sure to ACTIVATE compiz before
wait4steam: thx
wait4steam: thx
Conan_Kudo: Kano: but it is potential open sourcing of games!
Nevtus: does it really require compiz? That's so weird for a gaming program
wait4steam: shoud i use a vm or is my system in no danger?
r4: steam is definitely still not running games for me :( weird!
Kano: Nevtus: it does, otherwise it flickers all the time
Nevtus: yeah, but I think it's weird they are targetting that.
Conan_Kudo: Kano: finally, a breed of games that utilize compiz!
Conan_Kudo: Steam utilizing compiz is great
Kano: Conan_Kudo: well i dislike it,but somebody found it out yesterday
Nevtus: more evidence it will be aimed at Ubuntu default installs. I guess it makes sense but I hope it works in other enviroments with some tweaking
wait4steam: shoud i use a vm or is my system in no danger?
Nevtus: wait4steam: do you trust Valve?
Kano: no need for a vm
Sir_Brizz: Nevtus: they aren't going to be testing it right now, it's not even close to done
Sir_Brizz: so of course it is built for their dev environment
wait4steam: at least more than apple ^^
Sir_Brizz: did you guys get Samarost 2?
Conan_Kudo: I did
Conan_Kudo: haven't played it yet
Conan_Kudo: is it a Flash game though?
Conan_Kudo: I'm suspecting it is
Nevtus: it is, you play it in a browser locally
Conan_Kudo: aww man
Nevtus: it's a good game though
Sir_Brizz: I think the bundle proves that Windows and Mac gamers are tightwads
Conan_Kudo: but Flash is such a pain in the ass
Conan_Kudo: on the other hand, it would be a good time to try using Gnash with it
Sir_Brizz: yeah dumb
Sir_Brizz: flash games are dumb imo :)
Conan_Kudo: Flash games, themselves are not bad
Conan_Kudo: Flash itself is a pain
Conan_Kudo: because Adobe doesn't seem to care too much about the users of Flash
Sir_Brizz: maybe the games aren't bad, but the fact they are developed in flash says something about their development
Conan_Kudo: it says they don't want to learn C or C++ to write a game?
Nevtus: the game is good though. Their new game Machinarium is also pretty good from what I played of the demo (also Flash based sadly)
Sir_Brizz: so they learn... actionscript?
andar: they should just use python
Sir_Brizz: heh just what I was going to say
Sir_Brizz: python + pygame
Conan_Kudo: Python can be just as bad
Nevtus: I think they like having the demos directly on their website
andar: python is fantastic
Conan_Kudo: on Windows?
Conan_Kudo: you must be joking
Nevtus: it does limit the games though
Sir_Brizz: python works fine on Windows
andar: python works just fine on windows
Conan_Kudo: unless you are running 64-bit Python
Conan_Kudo: then it gets all crumbly on you
andar: 32-bit works fine
Nevtus: you'd just bundle python with the Windows version
godofgrunts: Conan_Kudo: Python runs in a VM like Java...
andar: exactly
Nevtus: :S
Sir_Brizz: I'm not sure I've ever used or wanted to use 64-bit Python
andar: i just released a windows installer for a python app
andar: works fine
andar: you bundle python with the app though
Nevtus: python is far lighter than java. It's a decent languge
Nevtus: espeically for games
Conan_Kudo: maybe you should tell them :P
Conan_Kudo: technically, it should be possible to do in browser demos with Python
Sir_Brizz: I wouldn't compare python vm to java vm
Conan_Kudo: utilizing HTML5 and the like
godofgrunts: Sir_Brizz: Right, but I was just using it as reasoning of why it really shouldn't be differnt
Sir_Brizz: oh
Nevtus: oh, another thing about Samorost 2, as far as I can tell you can't make it go fullscreen...
Sir_Brizz: heh for some reason I didn't see that you directed that to someone
cracker: steam stopped crashing after todays update or what?
Kano: cracker: you have to clean your home
Kano: otherwise it does not run correctly
cracker: allrigth
wait4steam: hmm, steam fails with segmentation fault
Sir_Brizz: what was today's update?
Conan_Kudo: utter fail
wait4steam: any way to solve this?
godofgrunts: Conan_Kudo: Today's update was?
Conan_Kudo: segfault
Kano: Conan_Kudo: it does not seqfault here, which gfx driver?
Conan_Kudo: Intel
wait4steam: found the error
Kano: Conan_Kudo: did you install bsdiff
wait4steam: installing atm :D
wait4steam: so it just works with a selfmade patch, hmm
SimmyD: this is exciting. (steam thingy)
SimmyD: never thought i would see the day it actually was worked on for linux
Nevtus: it'd be more exciting if Valve offically announced it was happening :P
dupondje: whats the use of it ? :)
dupondje: ok you have steam ... but 0 games ?
SimmyD: makes it easier for developers to release games to linux
Nevtus: dupondje: if it actually comes out, games
SimmyD: without having to buy boxes
dupondje: games on linux would be uber great ofc
Nevtus: you could probably buy the Id games for linux without jumping through hoops
SimmyD: ofc?
dupondje: offcourse :)
SimmyD: haha ahh
dupondje: not only for the games itself, but also it pushes ati / nvidia a bit harder to make good drivers :D
Deanjo: LGP would actually have a secure way of handling game orders at least if they put their selection on steam
wait4steam: i hope steam on linux is more tha na prrofe of concept
SimmyD: i would buy most of the LGP games just to support it on steam
SimmyD: the ati/nvidia drivers are not so bad anymore
Conan_Kudo: Kano: oops
Deanjo: Wouldn't order anything from them right now with their security hole ridden site
Nevtus: perhaps Valve hinted at them to get them ready for the Steam launch a while ago
dupondje: SimmyD: well the closed sources are not bad
dupondje: nouveau still needs some improvement :P
SimmyD: i have no issue for closed video drivers
Nevtus: nvidia closed drivers are pretty good
Conan_Kudo: 真実はいつも一つ！
SimmyD: i can understand some things need to be kept secret for corp reasons
Kano: well nobody cracked steam, just the gui is shown with that hack
Kano: so they should not worry
SimmyD: Kano: talking about the nvidia closed binary dumps :P
SimmyD: *blobs
Kano: ah
Kano: well i always prefer binary
Deanjo: aka "The best damn video driver in linux" :P
Sir_Brizz:
Kano: because when i have got a card i want to use all features not only a part of it
SimmyD: exactly
Deanjo: +1
Nevtus: it's because of it's workstation usage that the nvidia driver is so good
dupondje: i'm running nouveau here :) works fine
SimmyD: and nvidia cant opensource everything because then ati can see all thier work
SimmyD: so it makes sense
SimmyD: i have no issue with that
Deanjo: Well there is 3rd party IP as well
SimmyD: that too
dupondje: SimmyD: why can ATI make an open source driver then ? :D
SimmyD: dupondje: the 3d performance isnt right tho :P
Deanjo: They can't make a full featured opensource dupondje
Deanjo: The opensource driver is still neutered
SimmyD: i can see proper full 3d gfx saying closed source
Nevtus: SimmyD: you could say the same about the closed source OSs, but open OSs seem to work fine don't they ;)
Kano: basically opensource drivers will lose attraction as soon as agp systems are replaced
SimmyD: Nevtus: two different things
Nevtus: however for now, closed drivers are the only way for 3D
Nevtus: hopefully it'll change in the future
SimmyD: lol
SimmyD: buisness models would need to change first i think
wait4steam: i hope radeon will improve
Kano: only agp users have got problems to replace a card
Nevtus: I think it would bring in the problem of open source hardware
Modplan: unless their business is based around selling drivers then no
SimmyD: but the will have IP in the drivers
Modplan: don't need to open all the 3rd party licensed stuff to get a half decent driver
SimmyD: but i dont want a half decent driver
SimmyD: i want a fully working one lol
Nevtus: so do I, not just for games. I like applications like Blender for making 3D models and so on. The closed source ones are the only option right now
SimmyD: but when it comes down to it i am also cool buying closed source software for linux
SimmyD: i think linux as a base should be free and opensource
SimmyD: but companies do need to make money :P
Kano: maybe ppl would just buy a card for 30 $/€ instead of toying around with a half backed driver if they could Kano: but agp users dont have got that choice Modplan: You don't need to be closed source/proprietary to make money Kano: to make money you have to sell things Nevtus: you'd sell the hardware Kano: when you use a card 10y then you dont make any money in the time between SimmyD: all i am saying is that it would be good for people like adobe to sell photoshop as a binary to linux Deanjo: To make big money like the closed source community does right now you have to keep it closed Modplan: there's plenty of room for business without needing to rely on closing the software up SimmyD: Modplan: how about games? Modplan: I've actually been discussing and writing about that recently Modplan: hang on a sec Nevtus: Adobe is falling out with Apple, I could see them trying something like that Nevtus: but not any time soon SimmyD: Nevtus: i would see it as a smart move SimmyD: since its on macos you would think it wouldnt be so hard Modplan: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1442535 Modplan: discussion on FOSS game business models Kano: a game is not gfx driver Deanjo: lol let adobe first get the basics running right before thinking of porting their apps *cough*flashplayer*cough* Kano: a driver will not make any money for old hardware Modplan: someone asked about games Nevtus: when it comes to games I think there is something in having closed projects. However for the tools, engines, etc open source would be a good move (Epic would hate that though) SimmyD: sorry SimmyD: brought up a few topics in a row ;) dupondje: flashplayer is getting so sad, that its really going to be replaced real soon it seems :P SimmyD: all my point is i dont see a real issue with drivers that are closed for corp reasons and things like games and high production software. To make those things can cost alot SimmyD: and you need to get it back somehow SimmyD: but there are now other ways as Modplan has pointed out will: dupondje: I would rather replace dumb webdesigner will: :-D dupondje: will: why ? will: for using Flash Modplan: there's some good resources on the whole business/economics side of things for people interested Kano: the most simple way to get revenue from an oss game is that you provide a virtual envinonment you have to pay for dupondje: its not the webdesigners fault that flashplayer isn't still good on 64bit linux dupondje: sad fuckers ;) Kano: thats the same as for flash games or whatever Nevtus: you mean an MMO? Kano: you can make lots of money just by selling virtual goods Deanjo: ya well they have a bit of a dipshit doing the linux ports of flashplayer dupondje Modplan: Remember is there's a difference between paying for production and paying for end result Nevtus: I don't approve of "micropayments" tbh Deanjo: His whole "can't do video acceleration on linux" arguement was proof of that will: Flashplayer is a crappy spyware Kano: Deanjo: adobe can hack this together for os x just a few days after it was possible but not after some years for linux, thats clear or will: Most of Flashplayer users didn't read the EULA Kano: they did not feel the pressure that steve jobs had on em Deanjo: Ya well the guys from nvidia were fully willing to show them how to do it Kano. Kano: thats why it was no priority Kano: but right now they HAVE to implement it. most likely first for android Deanjo: Hell the guys from XBMC figured out how to do what flashplayer said couldn't be done Kano: just because they need an argument that android can run flash and iphone/pad cant Nevtus: I use video acceleration on linux all the time with VDPAU Kano: without pressure -> nothing happens will: like farting? will: :-D Deanjo: Yup, just hate how they try to bullshit their way out of it Kano Deanjo: Even with it being successfully ported to Android that won't mean much for the 64-bit version bluekoala: Kano: I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe starts supporting Photoshop on Linux now that they're in a feud with apple Kano: bluekoala: well google paid crossover to support it with wine will: Photoshop on GNU/Linux lol Kano: so maybe not the first interest will: why not IE? Nevtus: by the time flash for linux works properly, flash will be obsolete Nevtus: photoshop on IE? what? Deanjo: Apple doesn't care bluekoala, you can be rest assured that apple has a PS killer in the works for OS X bluekoala: Kano: I thought it was students working co-op with google? Kano: sure but they pay crossover too bluekoala: Deanjo: What would you estimate the progress of GIMP of someone were to throw 10 million dollars at it? Kano: they even run picasa using wine bluekoala: *if Nevtus: Deanjo: I'd hate that idea but it would be amusing to see Adobes main product being abandonded after flash Kano: when you run the win binary of picasa and look at the about page you see linux ;) Deanjo: Nevtus: Apple said "fuck you" to premiere years ago, hasn't hurt them a bit, final cut took over that crowd Deanjo: Gimps biggest weakness isn't so much the gimp code, it's the lack of quality 3rd party plugins bluekoala bluekoala: I see Deanjo: Same with blender and the likes. wait4steam: gimps biggest weakness is the ui will: Would people paid for third party plugins using a free software? Modplan: I like what blender does with the whole self improvement thing Nevtus: a GIMP derivative, CinePaint, is used quite a lot in the major film industry Modplan: Put it to practical use to see first hand problem areas bluekoala: I should probably learn to use blender down the road Nevtus: Blender 2.5 has an amazing new UI which still keeps the unique Blender workflow. The GIMP devs could learn a thing or two (not that I have much problems with the existing GIMP UI) bluekoala: It would give me something to talk about with that girl I made out with in MTL; she's a 3d modeler for ubisoft bluekoala: Other than that I don't have huge interest in it Nevtus: tell her you like her polygons bluekoala: I told her bluekoala: With my hands Deanjo: finally has PTS's tests installed and is starting the linux AMD 955 run bluekoala: oooOOOoo bluekoala: What are you testing for? Deanjo: head to head vs the 1090T bluekoala: Right, what benchmarks? Deanjo: Basically all the CPU benches in PTS bluekoala: I see Kano: does your bios support the cpu? bluekoala: Are you also testing a video game? bluekoala: I believe that is a valid question bluekoala: ^^@ Kano Deanjo: Yup, sure does Kano, took a nasty call to Asus legal to get them to throw in support though Deanjo: long story Kano: haha, especially made for you bluekoala: False advertising card? Deanjo: Pretty much, LONG LIVE local juristictional consumer laws Deanjo: Yup bluekoala: :) Deanjo: They specify my board was AM3 ready Deanjo: Well the 1090T is a AM3 bluekoala: My asus board is giving me a hard time Kano: ddr2? bluekoala: m3a32 MVP Deluxe w/ wifi Deanjo: yup Kano: guess thats slower than ddr3 Deanjo: M3N-HT Deluxe/Mempipe bluekoala: I'll try a different brand next time Deanjo: DDR3 vs DDR2 differences are next to nothing in real life usage bluekoala: I had nothing but problems with their boards bluekoala: KT133 bluekoala: KT333 bluekoala: And now this one Deanjo: lol Stop buying via chipsets bluekoala: srs Deanjo: They are universally shitty across all makes of MB bluekoala: My nvidia chipset wasn't all that much better either Deanjo: Never had an issue with my nvidia chipset Deanjo: s bluekoala: I think mine are related to heat SimmyD: still running a nforce 3 chipset SimmyD: haha Kano: Deanjo: well in case of agp support for vista via+sis managed to write a driver but nvidia not SimmyD: socket 939 SimmyD: loves it bluekoala: I have a socket 939 Kano: so you can not use ati cards with v/7 Kano: and nv cards run in pci mode SimmyD: still runs great Deanjo: Have had a Nforce 2,3,570,780a. No issues with any of them SimmyD: installed ubuntu on it the other day SimmyD: they seriously made the installer look sexy SimmyD: my eyes felt violated bluekoala: In a good way? SimmyD: lol yea :P Deanjo: This will be the forth CPU upgrade for this particular board. 4200+, 9850, 955BE and now the 1090T Kano: Deanjo: nv forces to buy pci-e boards for v/7, not that good bluekoala: I was looking for a 4200 x2 939 bluekoala: from 3500 bluekoala: Not worth the money Kano: forget s939 SimmyD: tehy would be hard to find now SimmyD: 939 is old :) bluekoala: They were plentyful while I was broke SimmyD: always the way :P Kano: even a e6600 was already twice as fast as a x2 3800+ Deanjo: 3800+ came out a lot earlier though Kano bluekoala: Not considering the double core P4 Deanjo: When it came out the original core wasn't even out yet Kano: Deanjo: its not worth to upgrade a s939 system Deanjo: Oh for sure not bluekoala: That should have been directed at me Kano bluekoala: But no, XP 3500 is fine for a fileserver Kano: sure if you like dedicated hardware for that Kano: i dont Deanjo: The X2 series held their own until the Core2's bluekoala: Are you kidding? bluekoala: They dominated! Deanjo: Oops forgot this is actually the 5th processor on this system also had a 6400+ X2 Kano: intel made huge fault with the p4 Kano: they had to pay for that bluekoala: And then the core2 is faster and all of a sudden Intel fanboys pretend that Intel never had inferior chips Kano: also itantium was no success Kano: but core2 came and everything was fine bluekoala: Core2 would have never came out if it wasn't for AMD dominating SimmyD: i am still an amd guy :P bluekoala: We'd still be using P4's Deanjo: If intel had their way back in the P4 days we would all have our nuts being squeezed by Rambus bluekoala: Just with bigger air conditioning systems attached to our cases Kano: i replaced all systems by s775 45nm Kano: well did not jump on the s1156 way yet Deanjo: Bulldozer will be interesting if they can get it out on schedule bluekoala: Even if they don't bluekoala: It'll still be interesting Kano: Deanjo: i would test the 1090T too, but i would not buy it ;) bluekoala: MP3 encode benchmarks would no longer be in intel's favor Deanjo: Meh they are cheap,$275
will: multicore CPU is pure marketing
Deanjo: lol, my workload disagrees with you will
will: the effeciency is reduced with the addition of new cores
SimmyD: bloody work gets in the way of IRC
Kano: Deanjo: x3380 is not that slow
SimmyD: *sigh*
Kano: partly beats i5-750
will: my next CPU would be an overclocked Sempron
Kano: if i need to compile much
will: cheap & fast
will: for all softwares
will: :-D
Kano: usually e8400 is even enough, just for a bit mplayer,vlc,xbmc
Deanjo: Except for video encoding, database, rendering, etc will
Kano: well encoding video is not that huge difference from 2 to 4 cores
will: Deanjo: even for multithreaded softwares
JEEB: > well encoding video is not that huge difference from 2 to 4 cores
JEEB: May I comment on this?
bluekoala: Sure
Deanjo: There is a huge difference Kano
Kano: not for ffmpeg
Kano: and mpeg2
Kano: thats the only thing i do usually
will: because multithread are queuing with monocore CPU where monothread can't use all available cores
Deanjo: x264 there is a huge difference
Kano: i dont encode x264
JEEB: Encoders that know how to use multiple cores (such as x264, for example) _do_ nicely have a difference with more cores (up to around ~20 cores I guess with x264, maybe more)
bluekoala: H.264?
Deanjo: Yup x264 scales very well JEEB
JEEB: Of course, if your preprocessing makes the whole thing slower, you might not get that much extra
Kano: JEEB: i only need to encode video from full hd m2ts to ntsc dvd (using mencoder)
Kano: i do not encode anything in h264
JEEB: Kano, well -- then defining the encoder would've been nice enough
JEEB: :V
Deanjo: didn't think people still actually encoded to mpeg2 in the day and age of HD
bluekoala: Why not? :P
bluekoala: It makes your dual core feel more fulfilling? XDE
JEEB: Deanjo, some people need to make DVDs etc.
Kano: space is not that expensive, when it is full a new hd
Deanjo: I can't be bothered with optical media nowdays. Cheaper to buy a hd then burnable media
Kano: i dont want to downgrade quality
bluekoala: I didn't think the quality of h264 would be less than mpeg2
xorl: Deanjo, yeah, 200 dvd's or a 500GB drive for the same price LOL
will: Deanjo: why studio are still selling BluRay?
will: they should sell HDD
will: :-D
Deanjo: because they like to beat a dead horse
JEEB: I would like to comment on that statement and "encoding DVDs", but I won't since I'm nice enough to take into mention that you just leave the originals onto your HDD
will: lie!
Kano: bluekoala: sometimes i need a dvd out of it
JEEB: And as for blu-ray, I see it as a not-so-bad media for giving out relatively high bitrate stuff
Kano: not that it would look better ;)
xorl: JEEB, blu-ray isn't bad yeah
Kame: Is there any like, online movie store?
will: DVD is cheap to release a single product
bluekoala: Ah
xorl: I am still glad it won the HD media race vs. HD-DVD
JEEB: f.ex., how many of us have lines capable of f.ex. 40mbps+
xorl: rather a 25GB Blu-Ray than a 15GB HD-DVD
xorl: JEEB, I do
JEEB: xorl, I'm not glad of the DRM that gets put down our throats
xorl: JEEB, Cox in san diego advertises 25Mbit but i've doubled on that easily
xorl: JEEB, meh
JEEB: well, yeah -- some of us have and the more of us have it the less there will be need of digital media like blu-ray
Deanjo: 100 MBit here this summer
Kano: Deanjo: does hauppauge hd pvr work out of the box?
bluekoala: I can do 25 now with FTTN
Kame: If google fiber plays out we'll all have lines over that
Deanjo: Ya it does with recent kernels Kano
Kano: since?
Deanjo: 2.6.29 I think
will: BluRay is too expensive to be commonly used
Kano: so long this device exits?
will: as a storage media
xorl: Deanjo, yeah, I have a happauge pvr :D
JEEB: will, it's surprisingly cheap in Japan
JEEB: It costs like 200 yen or so :/
will: cheaper than DVD?
xorl: JEEB, yeah, that's where I get most of my media
Deanjo: Great little device. Just needs a quick and dirty recording app in linux
will: I'm not so sure
xorl: JEEB, my friend is in the navy over there, sends me "Care" packages from japan haha
JEEB: lol
xorl: games, etc. you name it
JEEB: is in Japan 1-2 months per year
bluekoala: To show he cares
Deanjo: wishes something like graphedit existed in linux
JEEB: Deanjo, first of all - there is no directshow on linux :3
Deanjo: Ya I know
Deanjo: Still waiting for Kano to port it :P
JEEB: lol
bluekoala: Bribe him with blank dvd's
JEEB: I guess gstreamer is trying to be something similar
Deanjo: lol
bluekoala: ;p
Kano: Deanjo: i would just use vdr
Kano: via pvrinput
will: even for 200 yen it's more expensive than DVD
Deanjo: I already have a app 1/2 coded kano
JEEB: It is more expensive, but it's at the same price level as DVDs used to be two-or-so years ago
Deanjo: It's actually stupidly simple to program for
Kame: Isn't 200 yen like.... 50 cents USD?
JEEB: more like 2.5usd or so
JEEB: since IIRC you fell under 100=1 earlier
Kame: Yeah, that is pretty expensive compared to DVD's
Kame: but don't blurays hold like, 70 gig?
JEEB: lemme see for which the price was
Deanjo: 25 or 50
Kano: Deanjo: i have got one old pvr 250 in case i need to record some old media
Kame: Well, is it 200 yen for single or dual layer?
Kano: but for some the hd variant maybe a good option
will: 200yen cost $2.17 JEEB: Kame, checking atm JEEB: from kakaku.com will: or 1,68 JEEB: http://kakaku.com/item/K0000106534/ JEEB: wow JEEB: 25GB x 10 for 1580 Kano: printable? JEEB: yes will: Kame: BD-R hold only 25|50 GB Kano: send me 100 for free please ;) JEEB: I know at least two people on 2chIRC that have moved to blu-rays a year or so ago because the media became so cheap there (because of the blu-ray recorders) will: multilayer BluRay and hardware are more expensive will: like for multilayer DVD Kano: i think i will get a bd burner soon JEEB: yes, but 250GB for 1580 is \o/ Nevtus: do blu ray drives work on linux systems yet? Kano: Nevtus: to burn sure JEEB: of course 2TB is hitting the under-10,000 price point soon will: I think I would consider BluRay when it cost less than DVD Kano: to play no will: for blank media will: bd-r writer aren't too expensive will: but media are Kano: bd-r 50 is bluekoala: Kano bluekoala: If you get a bd burner bluekoala: You'll need to upgrade to more cores bluekoala: :P will: I prefer monolayer media because multilayer need to split the data Kano: bluekoala: why? bluekoala: For mpg4 bluekoala: :D Kano: i dont get you JEEB: wut will: monolayer burner are cheaper JEEB: you don't have to re-encode stuff to be blu-ray compliant if you're going to watch it on the PC anyways bluekoala: Don't worry, it might have something to do with me making no sense at all JEEB: yah, read my sentence :3 bluekoala: I was under the impressing blueray used mpg4 JEEB: blu-ray uses MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264 (MPEG-4 AVC) Kano: bluray can use mpeg2, vc1 and and h264 Kano: mpeg2 is very rare Kano: vc1 is most common, h264 is growing JEEB: But you don't have to follow any standards if you're just burning stuff JEEB: (since, hurr durr, you're just burning files) Kano: currently it seems h264 encoders are much worse than vc1 JEEB: http://kakaku.com/item/K0000054609/ also, cheapest 50GB media is 3,817 for ten of them JEEB: Kano, I wouldn't really believe that. Thankfully x264 got blu-ray compliance nowadays too JEEB: I _do_ know that there are some very bad H.264 encoders though JEEB: most of the bad blu-rays I've seen are MPEG-2, not so many H.264 JEEB: Even with 1080i mjr: have they been naughty? do they need to be punished? Kano: JEEB: well fine, thats available since 1 week or what? commerical encoders must be really bad. they add too much noise JEEB: Kano, the encoders do not add noise Kano: then the material is bad JEEB: It's done on the mastering step JEEB: Yes JEEB: I had this one anime blu-ray of a pretty bad series called Tayutama Kano: whatever even latest bluray have got too much noice like cass JEEB: It had lots of useless noise GRAAAH JEEB: Well, that's the mastering people's decision JEEB: The encoders should _only_ strive towards replicating input as well as possible Nevtus: I only own one bluray and I got it free with the worst purchase I ever made bluekoala: lol bluekoala: What was the purchase? JEEB: On the other hand, we should separate slight noise used for dithering, that can't be helped because of the YV12 color space used on BDs JEEB: Of course, most blu-ray mastering people don't use noise like that :V JEEB: They try to add grain etc. Nevtus: bluekoala: it was this blu ray player that could apparently play games JEEB: Thankfully lately I've seen some better ones bluekoala: Nevtus: I hear it upscales DVD's quite well JEEB: Bakemonogatari had some dithering'ish noise, but in the wrong places -> oh graah banding JEEB: On the other hand, Darker Than Black was raped earlier in the mastering process JEEB: (lowpass filtering) JEEB: But then again, it had very, very nice dithering bluekoala: =/ Nevtus: bluekoala: I have my xbox 360 setup instead of that piece of crap these days. I don't want to sell it till I finish MGS4 though JEEB: It's kind of funny JEEB: But TL;DR "Encoders shouldn't add any noise, grain or any other faggotry" Kano: JEEB: the thing is new hd tvs tend to remove noise but when you play it purely on the pc then you see it of course JEEB: It's done on the mastering step will: JEBB: it's marketing Nevtus: and the free film was Casino Royale btw bluekoala: Nevtus: Finish MGS4 and I'll buy it off you 150$ :P
will: they add grain on DVD upscaled labeled BluRay
JEEB: Yes, they used to do that with DVDs too
JEEB: makes surefine sense
Nevtus: since I don't have a tv and my monitor only has a VGA it'll be a long time since I finish MGS4 ;)
JEEB: (hint: no, it doesn't)
will: people still believe DV master could be transfered to BluRay
will: :-D
bluekoala: Well no wonder you think it's a piece of crap if you can't even see what's happening with it
will: in HD
bluekoala: But I still don't see how the xbox could be better under those circumstances
Nevtus: I did have a tv, it broke
JEEB: Well, my first job for a certain Japanese games company was to upscale a 720x405 (or was 704x405, don't remember exactly) source into 1080p
bluekoala: Piece of a crap ;p
Nevtus: yup
JEEB: I was so much about to crush the person's head who asked me master it, but then calmed myself down and thought how to do it while raping it as less as possible
will: JEEB: NTSC is 720x480
bluekoala: I bought a DLP tv and it's surprisingly resilient
Nevtus: I used to use mediaserver with it to steam movies to my tv. it was a pretty nice setup actually
JEEB: will, I know, it wasn't NTSC
Nevtus: the xbox steaming never worked well for me
JEEB: It was a lossless source from the animation team
JEEB: AR 1:1
Nevtus: not mediaserver, mediatomb
bluekoala: My TV was on in a store for 6 motnsh before I bought it; now I've had it for almost 4 years
will: JEEB: henta?
will: :-D
JEEB: will, it was an opening for a R-18 rated game, yes
JEEB: :3
JEEB: But the opening itself doesn't have anything R-18
Nevtus: my tv was a piece of shit, survived for about 4 years though. It was one of those ones that still said "HD Ready"
bluekoala: Was it one of those japanese games where you leisurely and casually rape school girls?
JEEB: nope
JEEB: It's one of those "pure love" story-based game
JEEB: *games
bluekoala: Right
bluekoala: Cause males in japan are all about romance?
will: JEEB: RPG game?
JEEB: Of course not everyone bluekoala -- but please stop thinking of the eroge genre as of one type of games :V
JEEB: will, nope -- a visual novel
will: ok
JEEB: It was a terrible upscale and I hate myself for doing what the company requested -- but at least they loved it
JEEB: And I got my name around :3
JEEB: will, if you're interested -- here's the encode I gave out to the company: http://x264.fushizen.eu/encodan/kirara/master/SeKiraraOP-crf15.mp4 :3
xorl: ah, now to be bored on mothers day, yay
will: thks ;-)
bluekoala: My mom asked me if I was doing anything interesting
bluekoala: Apparently lfs doesn't qualify as interesting to monthers
gitano: mothers day, mothers's away, yay
gitano: :p
bluekoala: Welcome NoDataAvailable
xorl: bluekoala, LFS? lol I thought you said LSD
xorl: LSF**
bluekoala: I mix up the letters sometimes
bluekoala: i cnat speel
xorl: I used to work with LSF at qualcomm for HPC
bluekoala: LSD WOULD be interesting to me
xorl: hahaha
bluekoala: I think it's worth a try if I don't need my brain anymore
will: JEEB: the character design is cheap but upscale isn't too ugly
JEEB: yah
JEEB: I tried my best :)
JEEB: NNEDI2 <3
xorl: bluekoala, I figure that will be the only high left for me when I quit skydiving
bluekoala: I'm much too afraid of heights to sky dive
bluekoala: That and a hot air balloon
Modplan: I'd be much too afraid of landing face first
xorl: I love skydiving
xorl: everyone I talk to has the same problems with it
xorl: it's safer than roller coasters :\
bluekoala: It's not that I don't believe you
bluekoala: It's just that my brain doesn't
bluekoala: Once I get up in the air
xorl: everytime I jump I examine every fricken inch of my harness and chute
bluekoala: It takes me time to get used to heights
xorl: if I see a single frey, I don't dive
xorl: it's as simple as that
xorl: with a roller coaster, you can't extra the parts of it and the track as easily as visually examining a chute
xorl: s/extra/examine/
bluekoala: ^^
bluekoala: I almost died of a heart attack once on a country fair ride
bluekoala: Kinda like the drop zone
xorl: hahaha
bluekoala: 50ft doesn't look high from the ground
xorl: doesn't look high from 50 ft either
xorl: try 15K feet
bluekoala: But after 30 ft I was a like "Shit, this is high enough"
bluekoala: And it kept climbing
bluekoala: I'll try going on a plane first
bluekoala: See how that is
xorl: 15K feet with a cloud layer haha
xorl: 2-300 feet of cloud layer
xorl: you're falling, then hit the clouds, fall through them for a few seconds then pop out and all the sudden, he ground is closer LOL
bluekoala: Ultimately, I'd like to have a jet pack
xorl: haha
xorl: well, you have two chutes
xorl: main, and spare
xorl: my spare is a performance chute as well as the main
xorl: so I am solid all the way down
bluekoala: xorl: My main worries is not having enough control to jump off the plane or fainting in mid-air
xorl: bluekoala, I've seen people vomit on the way out of the plane haha
xorl: it's not pretty
bluekoala: lol
xorl: it's like this
bluekoala: I'd be more worried about pissing meself
xorl: Stick head out of car at 120 MPH, vomit with head facing towards the wind
xorl: yeah haha
bluekoala: ROFLMA
bluekoala: +O
bluekoala: I done something similar
bluekoala: Piece of advice: If your friend is puking out your car window, stop the car; don't keep going 70MPH
xorl: hahaha
xorl: or better yet keep going, teach your friend a lesson
bluekoala: My friend had a nice streak of orange along side his black jetta
xorl: then when you get to said location, have them hose your car off hahaha
bluekoala: I was puking
Deanjo: Tip number 2, don't let your drunk buddy try to pee out of the t-roofs
bluekoala: My head was outside the window
xorl: Deanjo, hahahaha
bluekoala: And the wind was freeizing
bluekoala: The air pushed the puke back into the car
bluekoala: Up on the seatbelt, seat, back window, ceiling
bluekoala: It was harrible
bluekoala: *horrible
bluekoala: I kept telling my friend to stop his car
bluekoala: But all he was hearing was: Sto-garblharghagablegarblearghhh
bluekoala: And he kept going: "Oh jeez, oh my" as I redecorated his vehicle
bluekoala: And froze my face solid
bluekoala: I feel quite stupid not being able to find the terminal emulator on android
JEEB: I... don't think a terminal emulator comes with the sold devices (non-developer phones)
JEEB: connectbot lets you connect to localhost tho
JEEB: :3
bluekoala: Damn
bluekoala: Android seems different than what I was hoping
bluekoala: I would like to own the phone that I buy
JEEB: Dunno, my phone came without locks :3
SimmyD: iphone ftw :) *runs*
JEEB: oh you
Deanjo: ^5's SimmyD
SimmyD: haha
SimmyD: honestly its not that bad
SimmyD: and i am a mac hater
SimmyD: work gave me one
SimmyD: *tries to justify*
Deanjo: Ya for most people the iPhone is awesome. For the rest of the 10% that actually would even look into hacking their phone there is android
SimmyD: ahh yes :P if you want to play that much with it then yes
SimmyD: i hack enough with my laptop to want to mess with my phone :P
Deanjo: Most people just want a turn-key solution
SimmyD: *hands up*
SimmyD: lol
SimmyD: another topic. i dont like the ubuntuone stuff
Deanjo: People harp about the 30% take apple gets from developers but you also have to look at the service that they are getting with the iTunes store. Not many services will charge by the download
SimmyD: its pretty much vendor lock in
Deanjo: Ya people will put their eye-blinders on when it's convienent
Deanjo: Talking really about any service
SimmyD: i am a fedora user
SimmyD: and tried ubuntu on my desktop
SimmyD: really loved it
Deanjo: I'm sorry for you :P
SimmyD: haha
SimmyD: but then saw how ubuntuone works
SimmyD: and its scary.
SimmyD: should be opened to any platform
SimmyD: slash/ distro
Deanjo: Used to be a old RH user, Fedora turned me off when they delayed alsa support and never looked back
Kano: btw. using kanotix + compiz you see the names for the steam windows in u you dont see em ;)
bluekoala: Sure, if other Distros would be willing to provide support for UbuntoOne
SimmyD: well the music store requires ubuntuone
SimmyD: i think thats just daft
SimmyD: i can see what they are doing
bluekoala: Adding a music store to ubuntu?
Deanjo: If the major distros started offering a commercial service for closed apps then really something like steam wouldn't be needed
Kano: you must be really stupid when you use that, but well...
SimmyD: i havnt used it
SimmyD: but
bluekoala: That's not true Deanjo
bluekoala: Steam is huge
SimmyD: if they opened it up to all distros then it could become like an apple store thing
SimmyD: all it is is a plugin to banshee/rythombox
Deanjo: Sure it's huge. Not denying that, but it could have been easily done with support of the major distros
SimmyD: Deanjo: i think its better because it gives one place for games
bluekoala: That is true
SimmyD: Deanjo: instead of an yum repo or a deb repo
Deanjo: There is the problem though, every distro has it's quirks
SimmyD: it will be good to be transparent to the distro you are running
SimmyD: true
SimmyD: but the software will probably be bundled with all the lib they need
Deanjo: Don't be so sure, especially when your running 64-bit systems
SimmyD: so the distro will not matter as much
SimmyD: why does 64 change it?
Deanjo: A lot of times the deps are not met
bluekoala: I tried 64 bit a while ago
JEEB: っ Static build
SimmyD: but i cant see why they can make it require no deps
SimmyD: exactly JEEBS
SimmyD: i run 64bit now
Deanjo: Just try installing neverwinter nights for example on a 64-bit system without symlinking the system libs
SimmyD: and i have no troubles. only 32bit app i have to run is citrix
SimmyD: i think 64bit has come along way since nwn :P
JEEB: And it really depends more on the devs than anything else, plus I guess 64bit was less used then in workstations
SimmyD: NWN should have come as a binary blob not requring any outside libs ;)
Deanjo: You still will run into a case where distro's will not provide symlinks to newer versions of a library
SimmyD: but if its all static then it wont need to have any system libs
Deanjo: It did SimmyD, the thing is those static libs won't run on a newer distro
SimmyD: i could be wrong but thats how i see it
SimmyD: ahh
Deanjo: If you symlink them to the system libs then all is good
redeeman: Deanjo: hey, haven't you been off for quite some time?
Deanjo: Ya, busy season at work
SimmyD: first time i have been in here
SimmyD: different actually having good convos lol
Deanjo: The port of our system to java has been taking most of my time
SimmyD: why would you port to java? ;)
Deanjo: portability
SimmyD: i was thinking about that the other day actually
SimmyD: i am a GTD user
SimmyD: but i cannot find any app thats on the iphone and sync with an app on the linux desktop
SimmyD: and was thinking i would try and mock some stuff up for it
SimmyD: was going to look at what would be the best thing to use to write it
SimmyD: was looking at mono but apparently that is evil :P
Deanjo: Well we needed something that was easily deployable across win/lin/osx/bsd and had cuda bindings
SimmyD: cuda=nvidia gpu stuff?
Deanjo: ya
SimmyD: cool
rsk: lol java is portable?
Deanjo: some of the financial reporting our system does gets pretty heavy considering it's a realtime system
SimmyD: bah should just be running it on AIX
SimmyD: >_<
Deanjo: Some reports went from 10 minutes of waiting to mere seconds
SimmyD: that is a mad reduction
Deanjo: Yup, well the app was just single threaded back then
Deanjo: Guys would by these honking multicore systems just to go "WTF?"
SimmyD: haha and rightly so ;)
Deanjo: Alot of times they were going from a faster single core system to a 8 core system at lower clock speed. Had their heads scratching
SimmyD: yea there was a time where it was like that
SimmyD: i had a situation like that with an AIX system and a database process
SimmyD: new system
SimmyD: faster on paper
SimmyD: but slower because the database stuff wouldnt pump out enough threads
Deanjo: It's been a good learning experience on GPU computing
SimmyD: yea i havnt looked at that at all. not really a programmer at all
SimmyD: its it hard to write for?
Deanjo: Not really
SimmyD: is it*
SimmyD: data goes in and data comes out? :P
Deanjo: but trying to figure out how to paralellize some stuff requires a lot of hair pulling
SimmyD: yea i can understand how that can be the hard bit
Deanjo: Especially when some of the code goes back 15 years
SimmyD: haha
Deanjo: A lot of places pretty much required rewrites
SimmyD: it would. the way they were thinking just wouldnt translate into threads
Deanjo: Hey at that time a dual processor system was rare
SimmyD: and back then there was no where near as much data to process
Deanjo: Yup, some of our clients db's are of 6 GB
Deanjo: over
SimmyD: haha i look after a system that has one over 1TB ;)
Deanjo: Takes alot of time to run those reports from day 1
SimmyD: granted its an oracle system but thats madness
Kano: michaellarabel: dont you think that the linux binary for openarena used differnet optimizations
Kano: or better less optimisation
SimmyD: ?
Kano: the speed decrease looks like a debug build or so
Kano: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part3&num=2
xorl: SimmyD, over 1TB?
xorl: Our oracle cluster at my work is in excess of 30TB
SimmyD: xorl you win :)
xorl: EMC Filers <3
xorl: all fibre channel hook ups
SimmyD: filers == san?
xorl: it's retarded but the failover is ridiculous :D
xorl: yeah
xorl: It's for a phone company.
SimmyD: yea this system has the IBM ds sans with fc in the back end
xorl: We expand it by 100+GB a week :\
SimmyD: holy crap
xorl: cause they are dillholes and fill tables like nobodies business
Kano: LordHavoc: could you check if the linux binary uses the same compiler optimisations
SimmyD: that will get well out of control
SimmyD: xorl: do they back it up in any way?
xorl: SimmyD, Oh we do, the main DB is filer, the backup goes to tape.
SimmyD: cant see how tape would be feasable
SimmyD: would take ages
xorl: Since it's oracle we just do change snapshots, and at the end of the month a full dump (sunday night maitnence)
SimmyD: ahh yep
SimmyD: what backup system do you use? software wise
xorl: For the snapshots?
SimmyD: actually putting it to the tape
SimmyD: or is it just scripts
xorl: duplicity
xorl: the diff snapshots are just dumped to the tape machine controller (which has a raid5 of 1.5TB on it's own
xorl: then scripts locally push it to storage
SimmyD: cool
SimmyD: havnt seen that before
SimmyD: i had to setup IBM sysback
xorl: aye
SimmyD: and had to write up scripts to do tape rotation
xorl: yeah tape rotation is a PITA
xorl: we just use their built in tape software for rotation
SimmyD: yea expecially when your sales guys sell cheap shit software
xorl: forget the model of the tape system, was there when I started
xorl: I don't touch it, just everything else lol
xorl: it's a big ole auto tape thing
SimmyD: i ended up designating slots in the library to days of the week
SimmyD: and just got them to pull full trays out once a week and replacing it
SimmyD: and running a full backup once a week for offsite
xorl: ah
Kano: bye
SimmyD: cluggy but all i could do with the tools i was given
SimmyD: considering i am a cisco guy primary haha
chris062689: Has there been and updates to Steam? Does the font rendering work yet?
travisman: hi
travisman: did anyone buy the indie game pack
travisman: 6 games for any price you wish
travisman: cross compatible
SimmyD: i am going to
SimmyD: havnt got around ot it yet lol
ework: yep
wait4steam: do you know whats interesting. why don't valve move the steam files away after people found them on the server?
xorl: wait4steam, They won't.
xorl: wait4steam, They have no need to, it's a non-functioning client for the most part, they have no worries about damage.
wait4steam: but now when people know it they could say: yes there will be steam on linux or no there won't
chris062689: that's good though.
chris062689: Value wouldn't want to keep it a secret.
chris062689: It's just more publicity, Value are masters at that game.
chris062689: *Valve
xorl: I think from a valve perspective
xorl: the client even being on there is a good faith jesture
xorl: (from valve)
krull: ?
krull: discuss
LordHavoc: LordHavoc: could you check if the linux binary uses the same compiler optimisations
LordHavoc: err, linux binary of what?
LordHavoc: context is hard to find
LordHavoc: travisman: I bought it for $100 yesterday SimmyD: LordHavoc: i think he was talking about the openarena comparion between platforms? SimmyD: his conversion seemed rather sparse lol travisman: lordhavoc travisman: the humble pack travisman: did u buy it wait4steam: [05:04] travisman: I bought it for$100 yesterday
travisman: sweet!
travisman: or sweat?
travisman: idk im not good in english spelling
travisman: but ya its a nice pack
wait4steam: you want to say "sweet"
travisman: ok
travisman: i already bought world of goo
travisman: a while back so
wait4steam: the otherthing is what comes out of your body, when you do sports :D
travisman: ya i know
travisman: i know the pronucuations but not the spelling
travisman: I speak 3 languages
travisman: Esperanto, German and English
wait4steam: my english isn't good, too
wait4steam: German, English, and a lil french
travisman: nice
travisman: I can udnerstand some french
travisman: from my esperanto
travisman: do you know what esperanto is?
wait4steam: yes sure. but i never understood what esperanto is good for. if you want to talk international just use english
travisman: esperanto is the easiest language to learn in the world
travisman: and it helps with vocabulary
wait4steam: i had french at school but i was so bad at it so i only use german and english. my french is sos so bad
travisman: it has a lot of benefits when learning other languages
travisman: i know I took a french class for like a month
travisman: after school
travisman: i sucked at it
wait4steam: i would except english or german as world wide language. don't want to learn more languages ^^
wait4steam: accept
wait4steam: i mean
travisman: the fact is that they aren't
travisman: english is very hard to learn for french spanish chines korean ect...
travisman: english is easy for germans to learn
travisman: and german is easy for english speakers
travisman: considering english came from germany
travisman: anglo saxon
wait4steam: could be. but i think it's much harder for europeans and americans to learn chinease or korean ^^
travisman: yes
travisman: very true
travisman: esperanto is easy for all
travisman: thats why it is called the internacional lingvo
wait4steam: but i think more people in the world can speak english than esperanto :D
travisman: doesn't matter
travisman: it takes the average foregner 7-9 years to learn it
wait4steam: it's a living language with native speakers
wait4steam: literature
travisman: esperanto takes 8 month to 1 year
wait4steam: movies
travisman: if you try
travisman: and if you dont try and just learn a little esperanto here and there
travisman: than you can learn it in 2 years
travisman: Saluton!
wait4steam: ok, than it's really not to hard
travisman: Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?
travisman: there is a linux client for learning esperanto
travisman: ill give you a link
wait4steam: they use special latters like Ĉ and capital letters in sentences
wait4steam: ?
travisman: the special letters are for the reason to make it easy for everyone
travisman: you know how we have the ch sound
travisman: two letters = 1 sound
travisman: it maeks it hard for foregners to learn
travisman: so they make the special C^ for the ch sound
travisman: c with carot on top
wait4steam: they could just take another wird :D
wait4steam: word
travisman: here is the linux client for esperanto
travisman: http://www.kurso.com.br/elshuto.php?en
wait4steam: if they create a new language from scratch
travisman: that wasnt the point
travisman: the point was to keep the vocab
travisman: and simplify it
travisman: to the point of making it internacionale facila
wait4steam: reminds me a lil bit of frensh lessons- scary :D
travisman: nope
travisman: not hard
wait4steam: no, but thank you
travisman: it does have some french in it though
travisman: saluton
travisman: parolas(parlez)
travisman: oh ya and its not dead language like latin
travisman: so its still usefull lol
travisman: 2mil speakers
wait4steam: i've heared from latin teachers who can speak latin ^^
wait4steam: sure
travisman: even though they say they can speak latin they cant
travisman: becasue the fact they dont know what it soudned like
travisman: they think it sounds like romanian or italian
travisman: but they are not sure
travisman: it died and they are trying to revive it
travisman: it is an epic fail
wait4steam: necer learned it anyway :D
travisman: lol
travisman: no native speakers ether
travisman: esperannto has native speakers
travisman: believe it or not
wait4steam: native?
Oddbio: a lot of people learn latin, why is that? Does it serve some function? The only thing I can think of is that it helps with root words in english. Are there other reasons? Or is it just purely because they can..
wait4steam: beacause they think it makes them elite ^^
travisman: nah
travisman: the majority fails at learning it
travisman: and they still dont know what it sounded like exactly
wait4steam: learning latin is a waste of time imho
travisman: esperanto has native speakers because of this *dady meats momy* momy speaks french and esperanto and dady speaks chines and esperanto
wait4steam: you may need it when you want to study medicine
travisman: thus fredy learns esperanto
travisman: because thats how momy and dady cmunicate
travisman: lol
wait4steam: have to get ready for university now. class starts at 8 am. and that on a monday :(
travisman: enjoy
travisman: i got schule as well
travisman: at 8:10
travisman: lol
travisman: oh hell here i come
travisman: lol
wait4steam: school
travisman: jk
wait4steam: is the english word :)
travisman: i said schule
travisman: its german for school
wait4steam: i know i am german :D
travisman: lernejo(pronounced lerneyo)
travisman: is esperanto
travisman: for school
wait4steam: ok
wait4steam: cya æ all
wait4steam: @

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