Phoronix IRC Log: 2010-05-06
r4: any updates from last night?
r4: since even
Sir_Brizz: Valve updated
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: They're updating for the Mac client
Sir_Brizz: my linux32 folder got updates with the latest one
Sir_Brizz: or at least it overwrote steamui and vgui2_s
xorl: Sir_Brizz, they updated?
Sir_Brizz: three times today, it seems
Sir_Brizz: not that anything seemed fixed
ework: I think they continue to break it
ework: I bet updates for mac get pushed to linux as part of the build system
Sir_Brizz: they definitely do
ework: since they share code
Sir_Brizz: I think they are "fixing things" I just don't know that they are fixing them for the Linux build
ework: the more they fix mac the more they probably break linux as it sits most unmaintained
xorl: Linux isn't there selling point ATM
xorl: mac/windows are
xorl: and Mac is the main focus of the moment, as soon as linux comes to light they'll care and update it, patience for us
Sir_Brizz: I think they'll develop more on it later
xorl: anyone have the update url for the mac client?
ework: change linux to "osx"
Sir_Brizz: the osx client is 6 days from release
xorl: I like how there's a regkey for windows in the osx build
xorl: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Valve\Steam\Offline heh
xorl: haha /Users/joer/Source/Steam3/main/src/external/google-breakpad/build/src/client/mac/../minidump_file_writer.cc nice
xorl: google breakpad
xorl: using it for crash reporting i use that myself for apps haha
xorl: well, after deep comparison between the binaries, i don't the builds are the same so if osx is getting updates not sure they apply to linux
ework: ok archiving steam file list and binaries every hour
asciiwolf: some linux steam update was released by valve!
asciiwolf: the client is downloading it right now...
asciiwolf: damn, it still doesn't work :(
mastertheknife: xorl: Thats not true. Mac only got more users than Linux only in the US
mastertheknife: xorl: in the rest of the world, Mac's market share is around 2-3% while Linux is 4.5%
Ivanovic: you will get "relevant" stats for gaming related things once steam and several games via steam are available
Ivanovic: then valve should have linux and osx in their hardware/software reports
Ivanovic: which should say how things are regarding people gaming on the computer
Ivanovic: (which is the only selling point you have when going for publishers)
Ivanovic: the website access stats and all that stuff does not really count since many computers there are clearly not used for gaming ever (beside stuff like minesweeper or solitair if the admin in the company sucks!)
mastertheknife: yeah, true
Ivanovic: if you go after "sale stats" you are wrong, too
Ivanovic: since basically every "normal" laptop is sold with windows and a user has no choice
Ivanovic: linux distributions are normally not sold but just downloaded and installed
mastertheknife: Yeah, thats why Linux's market share will be always lower
Ivanovic: so how to really measure "market share"
mastertheknife: thats something that will be available in a hardware survery when mac and linux clients are available
mastertheknife: I hoped Valve would update the client in the next client
mastertheknife: but they didn't.. they just updated files that are used by dedicated servers such as steamclient.so
mastertheknife: would update in the next update*
jumbers: mastertheknife: You think they might have had a good build on March 10th?
sannn: hmm I have an unupdated steamclient.so here from 2009-10-16 (from the l4d dedicated server).. not much use I guess
mastertheknife: hey jumbers
mastertheknife: jumbers: all files were re-compiled on march 10th, the reason some are newer is because some are used in dedicated servers
mastertheknife: Sigh, steam doesnt wanna work here anymore
mastertheknife: (the windows one through wine)
Megagun: What's wrong with it?
mastertheknife: It only works in offline mode now
mastertheknife: I deleted ClientRegistry.blob, seems to work fine now
Megagun: Yeah, it's a bit unstable.
mastertheknife: I upgraded Wine and now it even works without need to set the OS to Vista/7
mastertheknife: so i set it back to XP and it works so fast now
Megagun: So, I was all overjoyed yesterday that I finally got the radeon (instead of radeonhd) drivers working... Turns out they bug out after a while leaving me with pretty artefacts and a frames per second rating that slowly ticks down to 0.
Megagun: ATI... sigh. :(
mastertheknife: Megagun: what about fglrx ?
Megagun: fglrx doesn't support my card anymore
mastertheknife: another reason to hate ATI
mastertheknife: nvidia has a single driver package for all of their cards
mastertheknife: even the geforce 2 mx that i bought over 10 years ago
mastertheknife: my brother has an ATI card, he upgraded to windows 7 and found out that ATI didn't make any win7 driver for his card
mastertheknife: Megagun: have you checked if the card is overheating?
Megagun: My system can go up to 110 degrees and still be fine, so that should not be an issue. :)
zeroedout: who updates an OS before checking their hardware is compatible?
mastertheknife: what you said sounds exactly like the card overheating
mastertheknife: artifacts and then throttling itself (fps dropping) to cool it self down
Megagun: And no, it wasn't overheating. I physically checked by touching a metal bit that can get quite hot when my PC is very hot, and it wasn't hot at all.
Megagun: (110 degrees C, not F. :P)
mastertheknife: On some cards the heatsink isn't properly attached, best way to check would be to read the temperature sensors if your card got any
Megagun: I'm positive that it can't be the thing overheating.
Megagun: It's also not a resolution issue, as it happened to me before when watching a Flash video.
mastertheknife: lmfao steam crashed
Megagun: I'm guessing it's something related to KMS, though. I couldn't get the drivers to work at all without KMS.
mastertheknife: as soon as i launch CS now steam crashes, sigh.
mastertheknife: The pain of running steam through wine
sannn1: hmm nice internet connection here
sannn1: mastertheknife: well using cxgames is quite okay.. still shitty performance on tf2 though
mastertheknife: Yeah but now as soon as i try to launch a game, steam crashes
mastertheknife: I upgraded wine, now many steam bugs are fixed and steam works even with XP selected and most important, its much faster now
mastertheknife: just too bad it crashes when launching a game
mastertheknife: trying to downgrade 1 version now
arab: just wait for steam for linux ;)
mastertheknife: that will take few months
mastertheknife: plus they haven't announced it yet :(
Japje: mastertheknife: you stopped poking around in the current available bins?
mastertheknife: Japje: yeah kind of..
Japje: it looked to me that it was very early alpha code to tinker with it in a 20% time thing from 1 of the programmers
sannn: I wish we had these kind of 20% pet-projects
monreal: valve will never release a linux version of steam and their games
Ivanovic: monreal: i would not bet on this
Ivanovic: monreal: at least steam on linux would make lots of sense since they could easily dominate the market as "online games shop" there
Ivanovic: and yes, this position would be strengthened with their own games
monreal: don't get me wrong, I want to be proven wrong here... "but"
Ivanovic: since they are already being ported to OSX it should not be much additional work to also port them to linux (basically just recompile since you can use the same libs on both platforms)
Ivanovic: from a buisness point of view the move to support linux would make lots of sense
monreal: lots of money would be better I guess :)
Ivanovic: especially since this is almost for free because of their osx support
monreal: the ports should be easy to do, sure... but I am not so sure about support costs
Ivanovic: (the general experience is that stuff that does work nicely on OSX and not rely directly on the "apple features" like quicktime and the likes is easily ported to linux
Ivanovic: often recompiling is all that is required
Ivanovic: and in regards to support: just state that you do only support 32bit ubuntu 10.4 or something like this
Ivanovic: the rest is "you are lucky if it works!"
Ivanovic: and honestly, what is the support they got to do for windows?
sado1: wishful thinking.
Ivanovic: they got to fix bugs in their program, not in other programs/drivers
Ivanovic: or support for windows would be hell, too
Ivanovic: if you just limit the "supported configurations" enough you are perfectly fine
monreal: there's a new release of windows every 3 years maybe... linux is a moving target
sado1: yeah exactly.
Ivanovic: like eg: ubuntu LTS 10.4 32bit x86 with either proprietary nvidia or ati drivers
Ivanovic: then you only have a release every three years either
sado1: and company like that is unlikely to make a release and write "you're lucky if it works"
Ivanovic: and yeah, if you are eg using fedora and run into problems: bad luck
sado1: they would have to support at least some most popular distros
Ivanovic: beside this: in general if the program is well done it will just stay working
Ivanovic: for example ut2004
Ivanovic: released 6 years ago and it is still no problem to make it run in the latest systems
Ivanovic: so forget the "you have to update your software every half year" angle, it is bulls*** if you have written "good enough" software
Ivanovic: sado1: really?
Ivanovic: sado1: they could simply state the explicit minimum requirements
sado1: minimum reqs: ubuntu.
monreal: If I had to dual boot into some ubuntu I could just as well boot into 7
Ivanovic: if you don't meet them, then you are lucky if it works, just like it is on windows, if you don't meet the requirements and it does work: hey, feel lucky!
sado1: and people start to moan NOW
Ivanovic: monreal: the difference between official support and "it just works" is simple
sado1: "gtfo with your client if it's jsut working on this shitty distro"
Ivanovic: you can't officially support every distribution in every combination out there
sado1: yeah and thats what could frighten them
Ivanovic: so where to cut the list of "official distributions"?
Ivanovic: the simple solution is to grab one or two and be done
Ivanovic: in general a good example regarding how it *can* work is UT2003 and UT2004
Ivanovic: linux support right in the boxed version and it does still work even these days on a really recent gentoo unstable
monreal: UT2004 ships some very outdated sdl for example which does not support pulseaudio
Ivanovic: so if it is done well you won't get many complaints about it not working
Ivanovic: monreal: libsdl is lgpl
Ivanovic: which means that it is just dynamically linked
monreal: I know that I can replace the lib (in this case)
Ivanovic: if your distribution does enforce the usage of pulseaudio you can just use a different version of libsdl and should be fine
monreal: but they could have chosen to link statically as well
Ivanovic: monreal: no
Ivanovic: if they statically linked libsdl they would have to release their sources as lgpl, too
monreal: so where's the problem, it's lgpl not gpl
Ivanovic: yes, the addition that lgpl brings is that your sources don't have to be gpl'ed when you link dynamically
Ivanovic: static linking is a different matter
Ivanovic: and yeah, big companies have to follow licences just as endusers got to
Ivanovic: that is: follow the existing licences or make a deal with the coder(s) to get a different licenced version
monreal: not sure if replaying the lib in a steam game would work however... don't they checksum their stuff to prevent cheating?
christian_lappy: FOR SURE
mastertheknife: They can indeed only support 1 distro, e.g. Ubuntu but it will still work pretty much on any distro
mastertheknife: heck.. if support is the problem, then they should not support any distro
christian_lappy: yeah, support ubuntu only and thats it
christian_lappy: the rest surely would work
Sir_Brizz: they would support more than Ubuntu
Sir_Brizz: there is no reason for them to not support Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora at the very least
mastertheknife: that would be expensive
mastertheknife: think of all the support calls
mastertheknife: One calls Valve and tells them Steam doesn't work on his Debian..
Sir_Brizz: do people who support those field a lot of support calls, aka skype or epic?
Sir_Brizz: epic doesn't specifically support a distribution, but technically that should be even worse
mastertheknife: even if they will support just 1 distro, it will still work on almost all
Sir_Brizz: they honestly might not even officially support any distribution
Sir_Brizz: they don't need to
mastertheknife: I just hope they won't use support as an excuse not to make a client
Sir_Brizz: I don't kow if Valve even does phone support... do they?
christian_lappy: i doubt that
Sir_Brizz: plus how many retards running old versions of OSX or on powerpc will email them that the osx client doesn't work? there are dunces on every platform
jumbers: More so on Windows and OSX
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: ^
jumbers: Though I'd like it to change, mostly only geeks are on Linux
Sir_Brizz: I just don't think support request numbers would shift very much
jumbers: Most likely they wouldn't
Sir_Brizz: plus people who report issues are usually a lot better about following up on them and getting to resolutions with some tinkering
Sir_Brizz: on Windows it's more "send bug report, wait for response"
jumbers: OH GOD MY FRIENDS LIST ISN'T WORKING FIX IT
jumbers: And then accuse Valve of poor business practices
jumbers: And threaten to sue
jumbers: Because you can't challenge your friend to a game of Audiosurf
Sir_Brizz: Linux users are usually like "Pardon me, good sir, but my friends list seems to be not working.... here is a stack trace, a memory dump, gdb output, the end of my message log, the end of my syslog, etc etc etc etc etc"
Sir_Brizz: windows users are "ZOMG DIE IN A FIRE VALVE I CAN'T ACCESS MY VIDEO GAMES ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU CHANGED HOW STEAM LOOKS ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG"
jumbers: Valve can be frustrating sometimes though
jumbers: When they consistently promise "It will be out at 11AM PST"
Sir_Brizz: well they are a company in the end and companies can be quite frustrating
jumbers: Then it comes out at 11:59PM PST
Sir_Brizz: yeah lol
Sir_Brizz: or even worse
jumbers: The Half-Life 2 series will be done by Christmas 2007
jumbers: Oh look, there's no Ep.3
jumbers: Or how about Half-Life 2 will be done in 2003
jumbers: Wait no, 2004
Sir_Brizz: I told everyone Ep3 wouldn't be out for a long time
Sir_Brizz: they were like "noooo it will be out soon valve wouldn't do that"
jumbers: TF2 was announced in 1998
Sir_Brizz: yeah and it changed a lot since back then
Sir_Brizz: originally it was more of a military shooter
jumbers: I remember seeing screenshots in 1999 and being excited
Sir_Brizz: me too lol
jumbers: Back when I was 9
Sir_Brizz: because I used to love TFC so much
Sir_Brizz: used to LAN it all the time
jumbers: TFC is still great
Sir_Brizz: you're almost ten years younger than me
Sir_Brizz: I'm old :(
jumbers: I'm 20
jumbers: I used to rock at Quake when I was 7
jumbers: Though I was scared of single player
jumbers: And scared of Half-Life single player too
xorl: I still rock at quake :P
jumbers: To be honest, I don't even really like TF2
Sir_Brizz: I don't
jumbers: I would have liked the original concept for TF2
Sir_Brizz: it's not nearly as fun as TFC imo
jumbers: I used to always play TFC low grav
Sir_Brizz: at LANs we always used to play this map called Taco Hell
Sir_Brizz: it was Mexicans versus Border Patrol
jumbers: loads up TFC
jumbers: It's a shame they had to stupid up TF2
xorl: TF2 isn't bad at all
xorl: Keeps it interesting with all the crap they throw at it
Sir_Brizz: I dunno
Sir_Brizz: every time I play it I just get really pissed off and get like 2 kills for 100 deaths
xorl: A) did you buy it?
Sir_Brizz: did I buy it?
xorl: If so, don't complain, haha it attracted you enough to purchase it :P
Sir_Brizz: how else would I get it?
Sir_Brizz: well I got it in TOB
Sir_Brizz: I really got TOB for ep2 and portal
jumbers: Yeah, I can't kill people in TF2
xorl: ? Seriously?
jumbers: It's very frustrating
mattgirv: I find the server does make all the difference.
xorl: It's like *click* dead
Sir_Brizz: not for me
xorl: I average like 40-90 kills a match
mattgirv: A lot of servers don't really encourage teamplay.
xorl: it's not hard to kill people *at* all
mattgirv: It is a team based game after all.
Sir_Brizz: it's like clik clik clik clik clik clik clik clik *I die*
xorl: well yeah
Sir_Brizz: I can get more kills as a sniper, but then it just gets boring
xorl: it's not like TFC in the sense that you can *aim* and kill in one shot
Sir_Brizz: well not even that
xorl: it actually takes some skill
mattgirv: I preferred the variety of grenades in TFC
xorl: the day that new rocket launcher came out, I got it
Sir_Brizz: it's not really skill, imo, it's just knowing how to be cheap about it
Sir_Brizz: I kind of know how to be cheap with the sniper
xorl: be cheap? how is being cheap to do with killing?
Sir_Brizz: but not with anyone else
xorl: i play with the rocket launcher dude
xorl: that or engineer
xorl: I still school with both of them
Sir_Brizz: I've used all of the classes at various times
Sir_Brizz: but I don't think I've gotten omre than 2 kills in one life with anyone but the sniper
Sir_Brizz: and that is usually all I get in an entire game
mattgirv: Pyro is probably the easiest starting out with.
Sir_Brizz: because other peo0ple have upgraded weapons, or know how to get in your blind spots faster and stuff
eddieate: you are doing ti wrong then
xorl: mattgirv, yeah
xorl: mattgirv, it's not bad at all
Sir_Brizz: I already know I'm doing it wrong or I'd be getting more kills :p
xorl: eddieate, that's what I am saying
xorl: I average like at least 10 kills a life :\
Sir_Brizz: instead it just piss4es me off and I end up quitting the game and not playing it for another 6 months
xorl: and that's on a 32 player server
xorl: I should be garunteed dead
mattgirv: Lol you want difficult, you should try ArmA2 :)
Sir_Brizz: no thanks :)
Sir_Brizz: I guess the point is I have tons of other games that are frustrating to play
Sir_Brizz: so playing TF2 and getting pissed off isn't really in my bext interest as far as that goes
xorl: games should never be frustrating haha
Sir_Brizz: I get less frustrated playing UT3
xorl: If you're getting frustrated by a video game, you're thinking too hard, go outside, get some fresh air, go watch a movie haha
mattgirv: I tell you what game frustrates me, COD. :(
xorl: mattgirv, which one?
xorl: in what way?
mattgirv: But 2 the most I think, just the whole perk/nuke reward aspect which is really irritating.
mattgirv: It's a team based game that encourages solo play.
xorl: well yeah, makes it more interesting for the "non-team" players that want to play a team game
mattgirv: Yeah I suppose, that's why I said it is irritating and not 'rubbish' or 'awful' :D
mattgirv: I can see why people like it.
xorl: Like if I go in a server in either, I can get 9-1000 pts If I ignore half my team haha
xorl: but if I play a team game, really organized and such, i'll probably average like 400-500
xorl: they added the "Medal of Honor" aspect, (real life pluses for being a badass)
xorl: like, you kill more people you get to be the cool guy with the cool weapons available
xorl: if you suck you get to be the grunt, it's all about how they work with peoples heads with promotions n such
mattgirv: I think the most annoying thing for me is once you have a few kills, you get benefits that enable you to get EVEN more kills, which ends up completely ruining any sort of balance the game might have had.
mattgirv: I did enjoy it for a while, it's just I find it is either too easy, when you're on the winning team, or too damn impossible when you're team is getting pummelled by nukes.
jumbers: All of these TFC servers are just full of bots
xorl: no one really plays tfc anymore
jumbers: They should
mastertheknife: Hmmm, somethings very wrong
mastertheknife: after migrating to KDE 4.3.5 and updating wine to 1.1.42, i get like 10 fps in CS 1.6
mastertheknife: Ah, direct rendering is off because i updated nvidia driver, need to restart X
babai: imho cs 1.6 is the best performing game on wine
xorl: eve works pretty damned flawlessly in wine as well
mattgirv: I don't have too much trouble with most games.
mattgirv: Even L4D/TF2 I have had running well,
mjr: speaking of MMORPGs, the less known Ryzom is freed (including art but not world/level data); http://dev.ryzom.com/news/13
Megagun: Haha, look at the 'most viewed' assets in their asset repository.
mattgirv: That should be interesting.
mattgirv: Megagun: Heheh. I didn't see it at first. :p
mjr: (no linux version yet, though that is apparently and unsurprisingly on the to-do list now; reportedly works well in wine though may depend on gpu/driver)
jumbers: Pewpew, engineers fire lasers
mattgirv: I used to play EVE but man.. I used to log in at work and mess around trading things and I ended up spending more time on it than I did with anything else, I had to cut it loose :p
mesula: Does Steam work on Linux yet?
mesula: I want Steam to work so that I can play PC games.
andar: i'm pretty sure lots of people want that
mesula: Using Windows is a pain.
mesula: Especially since I only want it for games.
andar: you're preaching to the choir
GNU\colossus: The whole source code of Ryzom (client, server and tools) is now under the GNU AGPLv3 Open Source license.
GNU\colossus: how awesome is that?
mastertheknife: Um, i never heard of it
mastertheknife: care to explain what is it a little
GNU\colossus: www.ryzom.com - see for yourself
burra: anybody else have problem with a big ad on the phoronix website?
mastertheknife: looks not bad from the screenshots
burra: one can not close it, so I cant se the text below :)
mastertheknife: burra: I hate those big ads, but no problems here
Conan_Kudo: so Steam is still broken
Conan_Kudo: how far along does it get before failing?
mastertheknife: Conan_Kudo: It logins but dies before opening the main window
Conan_Kudo: remote or local fail?
mastertheknife: local of course
mastertheknife: burra: Ah, this huge ad just showed up for me, annoying.
Conan_Kudo: how come the Mac users get Steam before we do?
ipx: Because they've got apple in their back.
Conan_Kudo: the Linux users, as more technically inclined gamers, usually would be able to give far more valuable feedback than Mac user bakas
GNU\colossus: because they react far more friendly, downright thankfully, when shit is being shoved down their throats :)
mastertheknife: Conan_Kudo: Yeah, that doesn't make sense considering Mac's users are only higher than Linux in the US, but worldwide its lower
Conan_Kudo: and only higher because it is harder to report numbers
mastertheknife: Conan_Kudo: Apple was probably involved and maybe payed a nice amount of cash
Conan_Kudo: quite likely
Conan_Kudo: Canonical is barely self-sustaining, they can't afford to get Linux users nice stuff like that
Conan_Kudo: Red Hat won't do it
Conan_Kudo: it's not their focus anymore
mastertheknife: Mac user: I just bought a $3000 laptop! Yay! Linux user: I just bought a $500 laptop, i have another $500 to spare on games!
Conan_Kudo: Novell just doesn't care
Conan_Kudo: what's with the enormous ad on Phoronix?
mastertheknife: Its hidding the text
mastertheknife: and you can't close it
Conan_Kudo: I noticed
Conan_Kudo: and it makes Chrome unhappy
mastertheknife: I feel sad for the people that pay those prices
mastertheknife: 17 inch starts at $2299
Conan_Kudo: I got my Macbook Pro for free
Conan_Kudo: otherwise I would have never acquired a Mac
andar: there are fanboys in the office.. i just shake my head when they roll in with their shiny new macbooks
Conan_Kudo: it's just not worth it
Conan_Kudo: plus, the problems I have with the damn computer...
Conan_Kudo: slot-load DVD drive busted on me twice
Conan_Kudo: the magsafe connector has some sort of internal fray, it has a loose connection
Conan_Kudo: and Mac OS X gets slower and slower every day I use it
Conan_Kudo: It feels like Unix with a Windows system management
Conan_Kudo: none of the supported bootable filesystems in OSX are architected like ext4
Conan_Kudo: they are architected like FAT32 and NTFS
Conan_Kudo: based on block fragments
Conan_Kudo: and since Mac OS X doesn't include a defragger....
Conan_Kudo: and "permissions" get corrupted all the time
Conan_Kudo: Mac OS X is definitely not the most advanced operating system on the planet
Conan_Kudo: it is the most user friendly, I suppose
Conan_Kudo: but not the most advanced
Conan_Kudo: what makes me mad is all these Linux developers not using Linux anymore
burra: mastertheknife: yes, a bit anoying :)
Conan_Kudo: they develop Linux software on OSX, and they don't realize that there are differences between the two
Kvisle: Conan_Kudo: name one
Kvisle: cause I know 0
mastertheknife: Conan_Kudo: Why do you think they aren't using Linux anymore?
Conan_Kudo: file system structure
Conan_Kudo: included Unix utilities
Kvisle: I mean one developer --- not differense
Conan_Kudo: I don't know the names of them... I just saw them at a Linux conference
Conan_Kudo: they actually told me that they develop all their Linux software on OSX
msstake: pick photos from any development sprint and count the number of macbooks
burra: mastertheknife: how do I close the ad
mastertheknife: burra: Seems like you can't, there is no X
mastertheknife: burra: where is michael.. need to tell him about this
mastertheknife: michaellarabel: here ?
mastertheknife: michaellarabel: there is a huge ad on the site and its not closeable
Conan_Kudo: it also makes the Sad Tab appear on Chromium
burra: mastertheknife: seem like the add keeping to the side now
michaellarabel: what is the ad for? where does it come from? the hover ad?
burra: noup there it goes again
mastertheknife: michaellarabel: http://imagebin.org/95874
Megagun: Awesome, a huge IE8 non-closable ad.. in.... finnish?
Conan_Kudo: I've seen a Microsoft ad that did the same thing
burra: the "laptop bredbånd" is in norwegian
michaellarabel: hmmm seems like a bug in the IDG ad network, does refreshing clear it up
burra: only sometimes
mastertheknife: it happens like 1/10 of the time it seems
mastertheknife: i only got it once so far
Conan_Kudo: I've even had it happen on three different computers
Conan_Kudo: two of which, I've never accessed Phoronix on before
mastertheknife: ah, here it is
xoritor: well hello everyone
xoritor: is there a channel for pts?
xoritor: ok... just found that this is it!
sado1: xoritor, read the topic ;)
xoritor: smacks his head
xoritor: just got pts installed (mostly it seems) on win xp...
xoritor: i know its actually not "supported" but wanted to try it anyways
mastertheknife: michaellarabel: It just happened again: http://imgur.com/7yXUW.jpg
xoritor: i am tyring to compare f13 with xp then xp native to a system vs xp in a kvm virtual machine
xoritor: anyone tried any of that
xoritor: i am getting "The system cannot find the path specified" when trying to run iozone on win xp... can anyone point me to what file holds that path config?
xoritor: is it in the env PTS_DIR ?
xoritor: is it just me or should all of the / be converted to \ for the windows port?
mastertheknife: xoritor: what windows port :|
xoritor: it could just be me... i am no windows guru (or even a regular windows user)
mastertheknife: xoritor: but yes windows is \
mastertheknife: xoritor: e.g. C:\Program Files\blah\
xoritor: well... http://www.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=documentation says windows
michaellarabel: xoritor: PTS translates what it needs to for directory separation on Windows
michaellarabel: PHP can handle using / on windows
xoritor: michaellarabel, aaah ok
michaellarabel: but the PhoroScript interpreter translates it accordingly when making an external call
xoritor: michaellarabel, im seeing no results with iozone on win xp though... it does run and install
xoritor: just says "The system cannot find the path specified."
xoritor: that led me to the pathing issues of / vs \
xoritor: just a thought... trying to hunt it down
xoritor: the diagnostics all print out some with / and some with \ on the same line
xoritor: ie... c:\..../.phoronix.../...
michaellarabel: no idea, I only test PTS on Windows 7 x64
xoritor: maybe the parser is only doing the first / to \ on a line?
xoritor: michaellarabel, do you know where that "translation" is done?
xoritor: is it a regex?
michaellarabel: xoritor: Well do other tests run fine? Say like crafty or something?
xoritor: i have not tried...
xoritor: doing that now
michaellarabel: If other tests run, then its a problem in pts/test-resources/iozone/install_windows.sh. If it's happening in other tests too, it likely falls into pts-core/objects/pts_phoroscript_interpreter.php
michaellarabel: actually lightsmark or one of the ioquake3 tests would probably be better to try, I think on Windows I only support Crafty 64-bit
michaellarabel: I'll be back in about an hour though.
xoritor: md5sum error on crafty 64 bit anyways ;-)
xoritor: if you see this when you get back .... maybe there should be a test for what os your running so windows does not try to chmod the lock file in pts-core/library/pts-functions_client.php line 157
Kano: hi michaellarabel , why didnt you test ntfs-3g?
xoritor: Kano, while i think it would be interesting i dont think it would give a primary os filesystem vs primary os filesystem view... just my guess
xoritor: it would be an interesting test to see done thought
Kano: sure it is interesting as you need a filesystem for data exchange, ntfs-3g is currently the best choice
Kano: because the win solutions to accesss ext2+ have got problems with special chars in the filename
xoritor: they have problems and not just the one you said ;-)
Kano: thats extremely annoying, when you can access files only partly
xoritor: i have never gotten it to work well... and spotty only partially describes it
d2kx: i havent followed the chat over the recent days, so I assume that you did notice it already, but in case you haven't, there's a new bins_linux.zip for steam
mastertheknife: d2kx: Yes, but the files relevant to the client didn't update
mastertheknife: d2kx: they are still from 10th march
mastertheknife: d2kx: the only files that updated are the ones used in dedicated servers
d2kx: well, steamclient.so did update
mastertheknife: thats because its used by dedicated servers
d2kx: the actual binary hasnt been updated since early march or so (steam_linux.zip)
d2kx: that will be the important piece i gues
mastertheknife: we came to realize that the crashes are because of the different versions cause problems
d2kx: with the steam-mac client launching next week, they will totally focus on that right now
mastertheknife: d2kx: I really hope :)
jumbers: mastertheknife: Did the steamclient.so from 2-24 help?
mastertheknife: jumbers: I haven't tried
Kano: michaellarabel: also you could retest power consumption with the lowest backlight value possible
Kano: i do not think any old file will help because the client alone is boring without games
Sarto: whats newws
Deusdies: in case you haven't heard
Deusdies: valve apparently released 3 updates yesterday
Deusdies: that didn't do shit
Deusdies: but still...
Deusdies: I do have a question though
andar: the answer is probably no
Deusdies: does steam for linux mean that we'll magically be able to play all the steam games on Linux?
andar: called that one
Deusdies: damn you
Deusdies: so, what's with the hype then?
andar: it's likely that valve will port the source engine to linux
Deusdies: which powers what? HL, CS, TF and... ?
Deusdies: not worth the hype IMO
andar: it will be up to the other game developers to port their games
andar: it's a step in the right direction
oneman: DOES STEEAM WERK!!!??!
Deusdies: hmm that's true... AFAIK, if a game is written in OpenGL, it is not hard to port it to linux
oneman: KAN I PLAY BOBBLE BubBLE 3D ?!
Deusdies: not yet
Deusdies: but 4D is running fine
oneman: YoU mean NATAL?
Sir_Brizz: Deusdies: not worth the hype? If it had all Valve, all id, all Epic games on Steam?
Sir_Brizz: and all the indie games that have Linux clients came on there?
Sir_Brizz: I think that's worth the hype
Deusdies: well that makes a difference then
Sir_Brizz: there are lots of games that could come on there
andar: it would legitimize linux as a gaming platform more than anything
Deusdies: i thought only hl2, cs and tf2 would work
Sir_Brizz: and having a unified platform on Linux could encourage other developers to build for Linux
Deusdies: true true true
oneman: Rite now I run Windows 99, but I want to install phoronix and be a leet hacker
Deusdies: i agree now
giselher: oneman: =)
Sir_Brizz: windows 99? lol
giselher: windows 98 SE? :D
oneman: phoronix is based on solarax xenix right?
giselher: you made my day
oneman: this fat man with a massive beard gave me this cd called 'ganu/turd' , I was going to try that first
giselher: I knew it, steam on linux does not only bring games to linux
oneman: but prolly with a oracle kranel
Sarto: is the source code visible
Oddbio: ya but it's a big step for Linux gaming nonetheless.
Sarto: then gaming
Oddbio: plus future games from steam might support linux too
Sarto: hopefully some newer opengl
Oddbio: I doubt they are just planning on it being a one time thing. If they put so much effort into a linux client you can bet they will encourage games to be released for linux too
Oddbio: future games*
giselher: If they use opengl and vgui supports X and the MAC stuff, the only have to recompile their games for linux and MAC, not much work
Sarto: doesn't steam have free games in its catalog?
Oddbio: not sure
giselher: Steam is for selling games
Sarto: america's army 3
Sarto: thats free
Oddbio: but just so all are aware, for the Mac relesase they didn't require users to buy "mac copies" if you own it for windows or mac you own it for the other. So if you have any windows steam games that use the source engine they should be availible if the linux version ever comes out
giselher: the first free game i saw in steam shop :=
Oddbio: I just hope they have it out in time for portal 2 <3
giselher: that would be nice
Sarto: by default when using wine does CS:S use opengl
mastertheknife: Wine translates directx code into opengl code
mastertheknife: which is why opengl games work almost at full speed when using wine (e.g. CS1.6)
mastertheknife: because then no need for translation
Gnurdux: giselher, blargh people should stop saying that
Gnurdux: its not a simple matter of recompiling
Gnurdux: there is probably stuff that is platform dependent in all sorts of subtle ways
giselher: Gnurdux: that was my point, the current vgui_s.os links angainst X libarys, which is not shipped with steam, so platfrom dependent
Gnurdux: giselher, right but the thing is
Gnurdux: just things like
Gnurdux: how it handles sound
Gnurdux: is likely different
Gnurdux: how it handles user input
Gnurdux: all sorts of stuff
mastertheknife: unforunately vgui2_s.so is from 10th march
giselher: Gnurdux, once the source enginge, vgui and steam supports all tree platfrom, you almost only need to recompile :)
Gnurdux: oh sure
Gnurdux: if you include the source engine
giselher: maybe some very specific calls have to be changed
Gnurdux: if you mean games will be easy to port when Source has been ported
Gnurdux: i agree
Gnurdux: i think Source was designed to be modular and stuff
Sarto: ahh I see
Sarto: I just got cod:mw2 multiplayer randomly for free in my games list
Gnurdux: giselher, the question is if and when source will actually be ported
Gnurdux: that question is imo much more important than steam
giselher: Gnurdux, it works under Mac, that means it would only need to support X and alsa and some input libarys
Gnurdux: that may not be as simple an "only" as you might think
giselher: If the source engine is really modular it should be no problem to add suport
Gnurdux: and also there might be other subtle issues
giselher: You have also subtle issues between windows versions
Gnurdux: let me point out that many many games
Gnurdux: are released for Mac and not Linux
Gnurdux: probably more than are released for both
redeeman: certainly not because of technical issues
giselher: Blizzard games are released for Mac, but not for linux, because their games works well with wine, iirc
redeeman: because they have a crapple client
redeeman: and crapple doesn't like linux to get one
Gnurdux: redeeman, i doubt crapple cares
redeeman: they do
Gnurdux: i think that we linux users tend to arrogantly believe that companies like microsoft and apple see us as more than a blip on the screen
Gnurdux: ok, Microsoft had to worry about Linux a little bit with the whole netbook thing
Gnurdux: but they basically successfully exterminated it there
giselher: anyway, we will see what will happen once the mac client is released, if then valve doesn't say anything about a linux client, then there will be no client for linxu
Gnurdux: i disagree with you there too
Gnurdux: i see no reason to believe that there would be an immediate announcement
Gnurdux: valve might well want to delay the announcement as long as possible in case they change their mind for some reason
giselher: I've only played one valve title, but buy more if there is a linux client, but I won't wait forever for an annoucnement.
giselher: It is very frustrating to see the development of the mac client and the interest of the linux fanboys and valve says nothing about that
mastertheknife: I think valve didn't announce the mac client right away
mastertheknife: only when it was like half way ready
giselher: there is already an almost working client, except for the mismatching date
giselher: of the so files
giselher: anyway, I have to run, see ya
aliendude3500: How's the Steam client going? Any interesting finds?
ework: just getting the login windows and some login success at the console so far
cordell: what exactly is steam?
ackondro: steam is a game distribution system maintained by Valve software, it is currently runs on Windows with a mac client being released into beta on May 12. It currently serves out more than 1000. It will automatically install games that are tied to your steam account on any number of computers.
ackondro: 1000 games i mean
ackondro: millions of users, etc
cordell: ok so its a client, where you sign up somewhere and have an account, and you buy games from there, and it syncs you games to any computer, that currently has the steam client?
cordell: am i right?
trunkwontopen: you have those games forevah
cordell: sounds cool, are they open source games, or not
trunkwontopen: mm...not really
trunkwontopen: a lot of open source games you get for free...i would say about 95 percent of the games on steam you buy
cordell: [facepalm] totally forgot that i just said the word buy.
cordell: so its kinda like ubuntu one, where it synchronizes your music across multiple computer
ackondro: yes, but you get to choose what games you install, and there isn't a limit to the number of games you can have, unlike ubuntu one's size limit
cordell: yeah that makes sense, cause ubuntu size limit is 2 gb i believe. So if you buy game 1 and game 2, and you go to diff computer with steam client, you could choose to only install game 2 and not game 1
cordell: [insert] on that different computer [/insert]
ackondro: it also does instant messaging, forums, matchmaking, and can manage modification packs for games
cordell: what if a game is not in the steam's client repo(not sure if this is right word) could you sync it to another computer?
ackondro: i don't know, but i would think no
Sarto: you can just make a short cut to it
Sarto: with in the client
cordell: ok, well i was just wondering cause i have been reading a lot about it lately
ackondro: it's the largest digital distibution system for video games on Windows PC's
ackondro: they just redid the interface and added a port of some games and the client to OSX
cordell: thats what i have been reading about
cordell: well i gtg study for finals @ my school, so i'll be on tomorrow
Sarto: I have a feeling that it is easier for devs to port mac stuf to linux vs. porting to linux from m$
Azerthoth: Sarto, most ports go in the other direction, although there is a whole slew of stuff from linux that compiles just fine with no tweaks in a mac
danielsouzat: Somebody here uses Granola?
danielsouzat: I will love to see granola vs cpufreq-utils benchmark.
bluekoala: michaellarabel, Can I send you a screenshot?
Kano: you played a game using steam 4 linux ;)
bluekoala: lol I wish
bluekoala: I have world of goo
jrgp: did steam release a linux update this week yet?
bluekoala: Works well with Wine
bluekoala: But yeah
bluekoala: I can't use the newest win steam client with Wine
Kano: you can buy 5 games for 1 $ or whatever you like incl. world of goo
Kano: for linux,mac+win
SIash: But I would feel kindof bad paying less than a doller
Aondo: you pay what you want, that's magical :P
bluekoala: But.... is it legit?
bluekoala: It says there's no middle man
bluekoala: But they're not 2d boy
Aondo: if not, i'll give you a copy, from when i downloaded it there :P
Kano: well penumbra is the first part only, so you get a discount with a code in the installer if you buy all 3
Kano: basically world of goo + penumbra are the best games there
Aondo: hmm is there anyway to make sdl work good with twinview?
Aondo: those games really have problem with that
Kano: no idea
Kano: i prefer using 1 monitor for 2 pcs not the other way ;)
Aondo: if i play in fullscreen, they want to have the resolution to like 3000x1280
bluekoala: That doesn't sound like a bad resolution at all
Aondo: on two monitors, with different sizes, it is bad :P
Kano: and when you disable 1 monitor for the startup?
bluekoala: I bought 2 19" hp monitors 2 days ago
bluekoala: for 200$
Kano: maybe a little wrapper script
bluekoala: My g/f is using it
Aondo: if i disable a monitor, there is no problem, it runs fine, and displayed ok
bluekoala: I prefer to stick with my 24"
bluekoala: Better resolution ;)
Kano: bluekoala: better buy a 1080p monitor
Kano: much better
bluekoala: by 120 rows
Kano: i have got 1920x1200 too - 25.5"
bluekoala: I think
Aondo: Heroes of newerth i think must be the game that has best support for dualmonitors
Kano: but 1080p would be better if you want to connect game consoles
Kano: just that some games have got extreme tearing with 1080p - like resident evil 5 - xbox 360
Aondo: i want a multiplayer game like gish btw :P the gameplay is so cool :P
bluekoala: My monitor can do 1080p
Kano: bluekoala: the problem is the scaling
bluekoala: I never tried it on a console
Kano: in most cases it is scaled fullscreen with external 1080p
bluekoala: Does it look horrendous?
Kano: it just does not look correctly
bluekoala: Can't me that bad
Kano: but there are ppl who think that 1280x1024 is for 4:3 crt too ;)
bluekoala: I used fov 160 in quake2 I think
bluekoala: I got used to deformations
bluekoala: I am unphazed by them :P
Kano: gish must be a joke, wanted to try it, 64 bit only...
bluekoala: I use 32 bit still
Kano: gish: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64
Kano: hmm did the link change since yesterday
bluekoala: Hey Kano; how Ubuntu's security out of the box?
Kano: no idea, i only used it to fix my fglrx script
bluekoala: I like that answer
Kano: now there is a new gish tar -1
Kano: with 32+64 bit
bluekoala: imo, you might have more fun getting gish setup than playing
bluekoala: It didn't keep my attention for very long
bluekoala: Best new game I played was super mario wii
Sir_Brizz: I like Gish
bluekoala: Did you finish it?
bluekoala: Perhaps you shouldn't take my opinion seriously cause I like playing tuxmath
Kano: you are right its kinda boring
bluekoala: I got really proficient with a numpad playing it though
Sir_Brizz: Gish is fun but yeah it won't hold your attention forever
Sir_Brizz: it's more of an interesting idea game
bluekoala: It definitely has a good novelty factor
bluekoala: It reminded me of holloween harry a bit
Sir_Brizz: oh man that game was awesome
bluekoala: Yeah, my favorite was though biomenace
Kano: well postal 2 is cooler somehow and more bloody, thats missing in all those games ;)
bluekoala: I never checked it out
bluekoala: But I wanted to check out postal when it comes out
Sarto: I played santa's gone postal as a kid
Kano: try the single player demo, more fun than the mp part
Kano: or search for postal 2 aw7 in youtube
bluekoala: michaellarabel, I found something you might find interesting; http://code.google.com/p/live-android/downloads/list