godofgrunts: You guys are fucking awesome
godofgrunts: Just saying
mikeplus64: I really hope Valve poops up with an official announcement soon for a Linux version of Steam ( and some Valve games presumabley ) ... By now they'd know that there is a very large audience for it. ( given the response that Linux communities have had to the 'leaked' Steam client things )
godofgrunts: mikeplus64: I agree with you
godofgrunts: I would imagine their biggest games would come with it
godofgrunts: TF2 L4D2
godofgrunts: etc
DeathCrawler: ^this
godofgrunts: CS:S
godofgrunts: Which are the only three games I play
godofgrunts: :D
DeathCrawler: im wating for this. XD
godofgrunts: Been waiting for this since I discovered Linux back in 2007
DeathCrawler: XD
DeathCrawler: .so in l4d
godofgrunts: It will be so nice to finally purge my hardware of this filth
godofgrunts: yep
godofgrunts: Did the Windows 7 vs Ubuntu 10..04 vs Mac OS X 10.6 ever happen?
Sir_Brizz: < mikeplus64> I really hope Valve poops up <-- lol
DeathCrawler: lol
Sir_Brizz: why are people going bonkers on the forum about people getting the steam linux thing
godofgrunts: Because phoronix appeals to mostly Linux users
godofgrunts: And most Linux users who were gamers on Windows miss their games?
Sir_Brizz: I mean the people saying that getting the client is going to make Valve stop working on it or something
godofgrunts: Oh they're stupid
Sir_Brizz: hehe pretty much what I was thinking :)
godofgrunts: I seriously doubt valve would stop because their /free/ software was hacked and made to work
Sir_Brizz: I doubt Valve has any misgivings about the tinkering nature of Linux users
godofgrunts: Exactly, but to be on the safe side I think we should just wait
Sir_Brizz: I like dinking around with it, but I hadn't bothered trying to do source tweaks
godofgrunts: You have the linux build?
Sir_Brizz: yeah
godofgrunts: Oh shit, where did you get it?
godofgrunts: I didn't really bother to look through the thread
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Sir_Brizz: I have a file called getsteam.sh
Sir_Brizz: it contains
Sir_Brizz: http://pastebay.com/96505
Sir_Brizz: if you run that, it will get it and supposedly patch it so that it "runs"
Sir_Brizz: but only if you're using a binary nvidia or ati driver
godofgrunts: sweet. I just broke my nvidia driver when I compiled a manual kernel
godofgrunts: So I'll have to try it later
Sir_Brizz: coo
Sir_Brizz: it's interesting but of course it doesn't do anything
godofgrunts: doesn't do anything yet
Sir_Brizz: right :)
espes: fail-login dialog http://i.imgur.com/iCQz5.png :\
espes: Not going to get any further than that, the crypto libs are broken -_-
jumbers: I still don't know what to do about my segfault problem
jumbers: I can't tell if it's a problem with my libGL or with the way Steam is trying to read it
espes: jumbers: where is it segfaulting?
jumbers: Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
jumbers: 0x026cf276 in glGetIntegerv () from /usr/lib/mesa/libGL.so.1
espes: I had that too when I was running it in a vm
jumbers: This is on a new install of Ubuntu 10.04
espes: Do you have a nvidia card and drivers?
jumbers: Intel GM965 integrated graphics
espes: Ah
espes: For some reason it does't like mesa :\
jumbers: :( There's no alternative?
espes: It should be possible to fix, it's probably just doing something stupid
espes: I couldn't be stuffed digging into its libGL calls, so I just switched to working from my laptop
jumbers: Also before it segfaults:
jumbers: CLinuxSurface::CreateHTMLWindow needs Implinputlinux.cpp (1714) : Assertion Failed: !"CInputLinux::GetEnglishIMEHandle impl"
jumbers: inputlinux.cpp (1714) : Assertion Failed: !"CInputLinux::GetEnglishIMEHandle impl"
jumbers: CLinuxSurface::CreateHTMLWindow needs Impl
jumbers: That looks like a lack of webkit though
espes: Yeah those don't mean much
espes: openGL is probably raising an error at some point, but steam is probably not catching and handling it
jumbers: Interesting, somebody downloaded steamui.patch from an iPhone
mastertheknife: lmao
mastertheknife: how many total downloads?
jumbers: espes: Mirrored your file: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s.patch
espes: jumbers: kthx
jumbers: I dunno, lemme go look at my stats. I just noticed it while tailing access.log
mastertheknife: wow whats that patch?
jumbers: mastertheknife: 222 hits on steamui.patch
mastertheknife: espes you can skip the welcome screen right to login screen, i made a patch for it but it segfaults while loading the login screen
mastertheknife: thats a lot
mastertheknife: lol
espes: mastertheknife: That is the login screen, isn't it?
jumbers: Any hope for us with Intel graphics? :p
mastertheknife: espes: I just looked at your screenshot.. wow.. good job!!!!
mastertheknife: espes: you should send it to michaellarabel so he could update the article on the site
jumbers: If I had any idea what I was doing, I'd try to patch the thing myself
espes: mastertheknife: I just patched over the entire OnLogin call
espes: So it won't really work
jumbers: But I wouldn't have the first clue what to look for
espes: No idea why the ConfigStore doesn't work :\
espes: I also tried creating an account, but the crypto libs segfault aswell
espes: Don't even know where to start debugging that :P
jumbers: I should open a support ticket with Valve :3
jumbers: This makes me happy. The majority of hits to my server are now from Linux
mastertheknife: jumbers: objdump -S and gdb is all you need
mastertheknife: and some assembler knowledge
jumbers: Well there's the hiccup, I don't know assembler
jumbers: I guess I just have to wait till more progress is made to try it out
jumbers: Or until Valve fixes it
mastertheknife: I hope that once they finish with the Mac OSX client they will send in more developers to work on the linux one
jumbers: The platforms are similar enough, so I think that's the only reason we even have a Linux client
jumbers: If OSX were completely different from *NIX based systems, we probably wouldn't have anything
mastertheknife: but the Mac OS client is already operational, it can launch games and stuff
mastertheknife: but the linux one? its just in tbe beginning
mastertheknife: they better not dissappoint us
jumbers: Well, they have to get the interface working properly, but I bet a lot of the core stuff is the same or similar
mastertheknife: yeah the internal code is the same for all platforms
mastertheknife: just code that interacts with the system, such as windows (X11), fonts, OpenGL, Sound, etc is different
jumbers: So I'm sure they're just working on that now
jumbers: That's my argument for a Linux version of iTunes, which Apple will never make
mastertheknife: Apple won't do it because it can hurt their Mac sales, but for Valve it can only boost sales :)
espes: I think the gl segfault is related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/318043
mikeplus64: You'd actually /want/ to have iTunes?! ;)
jumbers: Yeah, I have an iPod touch
espes: Or not
jumbers: Damn you mesa :(
espes: jumbers: Try installing libgl1-mesa-swx11 and letting it remove the hardware rendering packages
maligor: aside from my personal total dislike of itunes, the windows port is rubbish
jumbers: The windows version is absolutely terrible, yes
jumbers: I get a new, different error now
espes: jumbers: What?
jumbers: 1 sec
maligor: OSX is completely different from *NIX based systems
Sir_Brizz: if you mean the window manager
maligor: I mean the windowing system
Sir_Brizz: who cares about that?
maligor: huh?
maligor: anyone writing software does
Sir_Brizz: the core infrastructure is similar and Valve are more than likely using common third party libraries
jumbers: espes: http://pastebin.com/RzGRG9uS
Sir_Brizz: so you're saying it's completely different because they'll have to rewrite their proprietary ui tools for Linux, which they would have to do anyway?
espes: jumbers: post a backtrace?
maligor: the only 'third party toolkit' i saw was CEF
maligor: aside from the typical libz ect ect
Sir_Brizz: they aren't using OpenGL?
Sir_Brizz: or OpenAL?
maligor: I meant Steam UI
Sir_Brizz: well still
maligor: for the purpose of the games, macosx is virtually identical
Sir_Brizz: the Linux binary is using a lot of shared libraries that exist on OSX but I can't say if they are using them or not
mastertheknife: espes: I get a similar error but without your patch, i could never run the patch i made, lol
jumbers: espes: http://pastebin.com/cfwQZ3Fb
mastertheknife: espes: this is what i get, you might know whats the problem.. http://paste2.org/p/805110
maligor: BadValue eh
espes: mastertheknife: Any idea where that error is occuring?
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: I think the only library they use is webkit, the rest of the code is theirs i believe
maligor: they use CEF, not webkit direclty
mastertheknife: espes: no.. :( After googling i realized it happens for some reason, so i made a patch and posted it here and it worked for others and thats how it went :0
maligor: http://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/
mastertheknife: :)
maligor: it's in the license of the windows version
mastertheknife: for some setups of xorg*
mastertheknife: I believe at the moment there is only one developer working on the linux client because its moving at a very slow rate, unlike the Mac OSX one which is fully operational
espes: mastertheknife: Try setting a breakpoint and stepping through at CBaseSurface::CreatePopup () (where the gl context is initially created) or drawVGUI
mastertheknife: Sir_Brizz: however, their work isn't large because all 3 platforms share the same code, the only code thats different is the code that interacts with the system, such as GUI (X11), Sound, Networking, OpenGL, etc
Sir_Brizz: you mean for the steam ui?
mastertheknife: for linux steam in general
Sir_Brizz: oh you mean to interact with those
Sir_Brizz: gotcha
ejackman_: we can hope that they only have one person working on it until after they squash all bugs after the mid may release of the mac client
Sir_Brizz: what have all the patches changed? I haven't really looked, but they have been keeping it updated
jumbers: I saw references to 2 different home folders in the steam binary. One was /home/rackadmin and the other was something like /home/dbergman
mastertheknife: jumbers: Hmm you have a point, i remember seeing those too
Sir_Brizz: rackadmin is probably their automatic build server
Sir_Brizz: automated*
jumbers: Ah, it's home/valve/rackadmin
jumbers: I can't remember where I saw the guy's name
jumbers: Doesn't seem to be in the steam binary
Sir_Brizz: in steam.log
JEEB: Funny times we live in. :)
Sir_Brizz: http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/people.html
Sir_Brizz: could be Dan Berger
jumbers: Aha, I was close
JEEB: Steam client for Linux might just start something bigger, but I guess 3rd party developers would still have to get onto the train before something truly big happens
Sir_Brizz: I think it was dbergman in the error message though
jumbers: "Despite his complete lack of game-industry qualifications - unless 20-odd years of pen-and-paper role-playing count - he made his save vs. interview and got invited to join the party."
jumbers: Definitely a Linux developer.
Sir_Brizz: hahaha
JEEB: lol
Sir_Brizz: Alfred Reynolds apparently maintains the Linux ports of Valve's games :p
jumbers: Somebody should email Dan Berger the patch to steamui.so
Sir_Brizz: lol
jumbers: mastertheknife: Go for it :)
jumbers: It's your patch :P
mastertheknife: lmao
mastertheknife: that would be funny
maligor: I'm sure lots of indie developers would like steam for that
jumbers: I bet he'd appreciate it
mastertheknife: i should diassemble the next version of steamui.so to see if they fixed the dlopen() issue lol
maligor: like world of goo and such
jumbers: Is that the only thing you patched?
JEEB: yah, indies would like it -- and I bet making a bigger market is never a bad thing
jumbers: If you aren't gonna email him, I'll do it
mastertheknife: jumbers: dlopen() calls and bypassed a check of the return value of the function InitGlobalInstance() because it returns false for no reason.
maligor: mastertheknife, maybe you should file a bug report with valve
jumbers: Nah, you'll get low level techs
jumbers: Emailing Dan would be the thing to do. http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php?recipient=Dan%20Berger
mastertheknife: jumbers: Yeah that would be better :)
espes: They also need to fix the case sensitive bug on the mac version
maligor: might put a stop to the availability of it tho, and possibly get you inserted into the beta program
jumbers: Are you gonna send it or should I?
mastertheknife: jumbers: you can send, i might send later too
espes: Some people like their filesystems case sensitive >:(
jumbers: Oh right, espes, can I include your patch to vgui2_s.so?
espes: jumbers: Sure
espes: jumbers: Tell them to be more case-friendly
espes: I should patch that in the mac binary too
jumbers: Is OSX case sensitive?
espes: jumbers: It can be
mastertheknife: It must be, its UNIX like after all
maligor: Not by default
mastertheknife: oh
mastertheknife: suprising
jumbers: Interesting
espes: It's really annoying
maligor: yeah, macosx is a bastard
maligor: not a trueborn
mastertheknife: case sensitive systems are faster
mastertheknife: no need to check for 2 cases of each letter
espes: mastertheknife: are they?
maligor: mastertheknife, heh, that's trivial
mastertheknife: well yeah for some functions like strcmp, string compare..
espes: mastertheknife: I would assume the filesystem would be designed to keep the key name different to the displayed name
maligor: it'd only be an issue if wanted to match millions of filenames a second
maligor: but usually you don't want to do that :P
maligor: ie, it's trivial
espes: maligor: If you wanted to match millions of filenames a second and you're not using a tree, you're doing it wrong :P
maligor: why a tree?
espes: maligor: log(n) time
maligor: I still don't follow
maligor: a tree in what?
espes: a prefix tree
maligor: oh.. a trie
espes: maligor: same difference :\
espes: Point is, filesystems use trippy data structures
maligor: I think most use b-trees
maligor: or similar
jumbers: Your message was sent successfully. Thank you for sending mail to Valve.
espes: jumbers: What did you say?
jumbers: I basically just said what the 2 patches did and suggested that they be more conscious of case sensitivity
espes: jumbers: nice
espes: Let us know if you get any hits from valve ips
maligor: and try to hold up the irc connection until the last breath
manaphuun: hm, those patches wont help them much though, they would need to reimplement the changes in c/c++ or whatever, i don't think they are coding in asm ;)
mikeplus64: jumbers: Keep in mind that if this is in active developement there is a good chance they already know about those issues and have fixed them themselves.
espes: They probably have a working linux version, it's just not merged into the main development line
jumbers: Since I've seen other ZIPs get updated and not the bins, I have a feeling they haven't fixed it
espes: Their public build system is probably "if it compiles, ship it" for linux
maligor: probably because it's meant for 'internal'
jumbers: Hmm, I need to set up awstats to resolve IPs.
mastertheknife: I am actually believing what we said earlier, only 1-2 developers working on it and the reason valve didn't announce yet is probably because its in very early stage and maybe they are also not sure about the direction of the project, so for now its like a pet project
espes: Is there any way to get objdump to resolve string references?
mastertheknife: I couldnt find a way to do it
espes: :(
mastertheknife: espes: Use gdb for things you suspect as strings... x/10c

mastertheknife: espes: 10 will tell it to display 10 characters
espes: mastertheknife: yeah yeah
mastertheknife: espes: p also works but its not as good as x for strings.. but i used p/a for hex for example and p/i for int etc
espes: I'm became too used to otx on mac
mastertheknife: espes: do you use the set command ?
espes: mastertheknife: sure do
jumbers: Okay, awstats is resolving IPs now. I guess I just wait till Monday and check for any hits from Valve
Sir_Brizz: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13923372&postcount=12
Sir_Brizz: I bet it's likely these guys are working on the client
espes: and a fancy .gdbinit is useful
Sir_Brizz: and most of the patches are common with the OSX client for now
espes: mastertheknife: http://reverse.put.as/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gdbinit73 is pretty darn useful, if you haven't seen it already
jumbers: I'm glad he forwarded it to the developers
jumbers: Since I'm sure Gabe did basically nothing
mastertheknife: espes: looks nice.. thank you :)
ejackman_: we can hope that gabe did the most important thing and said "make it so"
Sir_Brizz: hehe
Sir_Brizz: knowing it exists is at least a step in the right direction
ejackman_: I don't the the nc-1701 has chairs that big though
Sir_Brizz: lol
ejackman_: I'll say this though I am impressed with how far you all have taken this I have not managed to get anything other than cli messages
Sir_Brizz: the news post on Phoronix mentioned a likely June release of the Linux client
Sir_Brizz: which would make sense, if true
mastertheknife: I doubt it, it seems the client is at very early stage, and with only 1 developer working on it i doubt it
ejackman_: which news post was that
jumbers: http://img.jnumbers.com/647px-Gabe_Newell_GDC_2010.jpg :D
Sir_Brizz: if it's taking patches from the OSX client and the OSX client comes out May 12th that gives them more than a month
ejackman_: jumbers: well he kinda looks like the penguin in that pic
Sir_Brizz: and they probably have two guys on it
jumbers: I was referring to what he's holding
mastertheknife: ejackman_: espes posted earlier a screenshot of the login screen, he maanged to get there
ejackman_: mastertheknife: I saw that and became very excited and then attempted to remember the lesson of UT3
maligor: It's a shame stardock probably won't be porting impulse to linux anytime soon
mastertheknife: UT3 is a joke
mastertheknife: I doubt it will ever come out
jumbers: Postal 3 will
jumbers: That's probably the only reason we're getting anything for Linux, because they're porting the Source engine to Linux and Mac
Sir_Brizz: UT3 linux client will come out some day
Sir_Brizz: maybe in 40 years
Sir_Brizz: but still, someday
jumbers: Unreal Tournament Forever
sado1: if ut3's ever going to be released, I'll bet it will be now, with the steam client
mastertheknife: jumbers: lol :)
sado1: not that I or anyone would care, really...
maligor: ut3 isn't even a native steam game
Sir_Brizz: sadol, would be interesting
ejackman_: wasn't there a rumor that Ryan was working with valve on something
Sir_Brizz: like Prey port interesting
Sir_Brizz: rumor, yes
Sir_Brizz: some people surmised that UT3 was delayed so the Steam client could be ported
jumbers: 3 year delay for Steam? I dunno about that
Ivanovic: really unlikely
Sir_Brizz: maybe they were planning on having the client ported in 2008
Sir_Brizz: that was when the rumors started really flying about it
jumbers: goes to grab some food
Sir_Brizz: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?s=5dd589b0dbdbf4a7d24a16267e8a2ca4&p=1586534&postcount=26
Sir_Brizz: another rumor
ejackman_: mastertheknife: so you posted a screenshot of the first steam window with civ4.iso on your desktop?
mastertheknife: ejackman_: No, the patch i made didn't work on my machine so i posted it here so others could try and it worked for Kame and he uploaded that screenshot
mastertheknife: civ4.iso lol
ejackman_: and that is where the people you claim linux users will never pay for software get their fuel
ejackman_: lol
Ivanovic: uhm, having an iso of a disc is clearly not illegal
ejackman_: ok kids I'm going back to lurking and hoping that you guys make some more progress
Ivanovic: why should it be illegal to simply call dd? there is no breaking of a copy protection involved
Ivanovic: ;)
ejackman_: Ivanovic: no it isn't, but it is enough to create fud
Ivanovic: ejackman_: farting is enough to create fud!
Ivanovic: ah, hell, even breathing is
ejackman_: true true have a good night
maligor: not to mention, why would anyone keep them on the desktop
gik: "ejackman_> and that is where the people you claim linux users will never pay for software get their fuel" ofc linux user=pirate, they don't pay for their softwares >.>
gik: we all know it will be the exact opposite
Ivanovic: gik: the problem is that some large vendor has to try it first
gik: yup
Ivanovic: gik: so far most of them were too afraid to walk this road
maligor: there was iD
maligor: or still is
Ivanovic: but, hey, lets start a new conspiracy theory:
sado1: was
sado1: they probably won't make Rage for Linux
gik: i road followed by IBM intel etc
Ivanovic: what all of you do not know is that mastertheknife in fact does work for valve and is the one coding the linux version of steam
gik: they will make a rage native client i'm sure about it
Ivanovic: now gabe asked him to best do advertising for it in a viral manner
Ivanovic: and he said "linux users are geeks, for them a 'hacked the beta' works best!"
Ivanovic: and this is what mastertheknife was now told by gabe to do
Ivanovic: so this is pure valve marketing!
Ivanovic: ha! i found it out, take this gabe!
Ivanovic: ^^
sado1: lolz.
ework: so whats the current status on steam?
jumbers: Does anybody know Valve's IP range?
maligor: it's all vapor
ework: I read what mastertheknife was working on and started to get to where he was last night but got to tired
maligor: Isn't it just L4D, Half-Life and CS, TF2
Ivanovic: maligor: i don't think that they will port HL1
espes: w00t, I think I fixed the gl error
ework: I discovered the tolower problems and something wrong with the loading of the libraries that cause the client manager destructor to be called, but mastertheknife is a genius figuring out the binding problems
jumbers: espes: !!!
Ivanovic: i'd assume that they just port stuff based on the source engine
espes: It tries to make a gl call before setting the current context
jumbers: Send it to me, I'll test it
espes: Which works with the nvidia drivers (it shouldn't), but not with mesa
Ivanovic: which is: HL2, HL2:EP1, HL2:EP2, Portal, CS:S, TF2
espes: jumbers: I've yet to make a patch
ework: mastertheknife, if you're on what are the missing symbols? where do you think they come from? could we preload some library to replace them?
maligor: oh yeah.. forgot Portal
Ivanovic: and another company doing Postal3 which will have a native linux version
maligor: Ivanovic, L4D, L4D2 is source also
jumbers: Postal 3 is using the Source engine
Ivanovic: right, plus those 2
jumbers: espes: Lemme know when you do, I'll be glad to test it
Ivanovic: but with those they can see how many users do use linux to play their games which will be nice in the steam report stuff
Ivanovic: (you know, the reported OS and the likes)
espes: jumbers: Oh, and you should probably undo those packages I asked you to install
jumbers: Oh, good
Ivanovic: and i can imagine that many of the independent studios will also use it
maligor: well, I do have lots of games outside of the valve's source in steam
mastertheknife: ework: what missing symbols?
maligor: like Total War's... love those games
Ivanovic: world of goo and all the likes that got a native linux version are available via steam on windows, so it is not too far fetched, that they will appear in the linux version, too
ework: mastertheknife, you said it had to be loaded lazily, that was your first patch which cause the shutdown to not occur right way
maligor: osmosis too
ework: what was missing from the .so that was needed to load right away
mastertheknife: regarding the dlopen() failing to load vgui2_s.so and filesystem_steam.so, it returned NULL and i needed to find the error, so i made a test program that attempts to load those the same way but added dlerror() call in case of error, and dlerror() said it failed because of unresolved references, so i tried with RTLD_LAZY and it worked, not just in test program
ework: oh so you dont know what symbols are unresolved
mastertheknife: no.. heh
ework: ah that was something that got me interested
jumbers: espes: Should I also start with a fresh Steam?
espes: jumbers: shouldn't matter
ework: mastertheknife, you ever get the window to show up or is everyone else enjoying your work without you :(
espes: I'm trying to figure out the best place to insert that call
mastertheknife: I will upload the test program, wait
ework: ok thanks
jumbers: When you make the patch, email it to me at john@jnumbers.com and I'll mirror it
mastertheknife: http://pastebin.com/Zdjd5Udb
ework: mastertheknife, awesome I'll see if I can get the list
ework: mastertheknife, your comment mentions -lld which should -ldl BTW
mastertheknife: ework: Yeah oops a typo.. i made those comments now
ework: mastertheknife, oh it tells you in the error
ework: _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScopeEv
ework: which is mangled
maligor: no.. really?
mastertheknife: Here it didn't.. it just said unresolved references
ework: did you get that?
ework: thats wierd it doesnt paste
ework: /store/Downloads/steam/linux32/filesystem_steam.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScopeEv
ework: ah leading slash
mastertheknife: ework: No.. one second i'll get the error
ework: 17: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
mastertheknife: Hm, strange, now it shows the same as yours
ework: maybe you added something when trying to comment it for me
mastertheknife: no but maybe because maybe the error i got was with vgui2_s.so
jumbers: Grr. Postfix isn't behaving
mastertheknife: no, still same error, strange, i must have done something different earlier :)
ework: /store/Downloads/steam/linux32/vgui2_s.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScopeEv
ework: same
ework: hmm
ework: actually every .so needs it pretty much
ework: 17: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 1074: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 17: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 1103: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 2380: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 20363: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 27: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 7976: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 2611: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 30175: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 297: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: 11395: 00000000 0 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT UND _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
ework: none of those have an index, address is 0, and size is 0, so none of the .so files define it
ework: 1132: 00009d17 115 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT 10 CreateInterface
ework: thats from filesystem_steam.so, should look familar :)
ework: CVProfNode::ExitScope any idea what that would even do?
mastertheknife: no idea... brb :) hope you'll manage to find soemthing\get further
espes: http://www.filedropper.com/vgui2sso
espes: includes my old patch aswell
espes: also, brb 30 mins
jumbers: Success. Postfix works again
jumbers: Stupid Ubuntu renaming a Dovecot plugin
jumbers: espes: Holy crap. I saw a flash of a window being created and then it vanished
jumbers: espes: Here's a backtrace: http://pastebin.com/j7QVr1ek
espes: jumbers: yeah I had that issue aswell
jumbers: I have a blank window open, sitting in my tray
espes: I patched it by completely chopping out the text drawing function, but I was hoping someone would have a better solution aswell
espes: s/aswell/by now/
jumbers: I don't even have an image though
jumbers: There's no borders or anything, just "Steam" sitting in my tray
jumbers: And if I step it once more, it vanishes
espes: http://www.filedropper.com/steamuifailpatch
espes: (includes mastertheknife's patch)
jumbers: failpatch? lol
espes: just completely chops out vgui::COpenGLSurface::DrawPrintText ()
jumbers: Holy crap a window!!!!
jumbers: It keeps connecting to servers
espes: jumbers: Yeah, it's finding the best server as well as triangulating you
espes: it's normal
jumbers: Does it eventually stop?
espes: jumbers: Once it's tried all the servers
jumbers: Okay. So if it tries to print the text it dies?
espes: jumbers: Yeah the linux font system is screwed somewhere
espes: I couldn't be stuffed to figure out what's wrong
jumbers: linuxfont.cpp (352) : Assertion Failed: implement CLinuxFont::GetTextSize is in there
jumbers: Looks like it's not fully baked
jumbers: This is exciting, I have a window
espes: for extra fun, launch it with -install dL
jumbers: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=125573&postcount=168
jumbers: lol
ework: haha
ework: its more amusing the first time you discover it
ework: ok I think I know what the symbol is missing now
jumbers: Weird. There's just a dot
ework: trying to create the symbol myself
jumbers: And 3 empty buttons
ework: if you create a c++ class with a method implemented in the class definition it makes the function local (in my case I never call it so not included), if you implement it outside it then it creates a global symbol
ework: 45: 000004dc 10 FUNC GLOBAL DEFAULT 11 _ZN10CVProfNode9ExitScope
jumbers: That first screen is the welcome screen with "I have an account" "I need an account" right?
ework: jumbers, do you have actual text?
jumbers: No, no text
jumbers: I was just trying to figure out what the screen is
ework: oh ok
ework: not sure how to create hidden local symbols in a shared object
jumbers: espes: What is the -install dL screen supposed to be?
espes: jumbers: Create account or something
ework: game install I think, like a retail cd
jumbers: All I see on it is 3 empty buttons and a small circle on the left side
espes: ework: That would make sense
jumbers: One of them makes a popup
espes: jumbers: click one of the buttons
jumbers: That seems to have no buttons
ework: it looks vaguely similar to the windows installed when you click a steam installer exe
mastertheknife: Argh, i'm sick of reading in the forums people saying "don't hack steam!!!", I didn't really hack it, i was just fixing a bug or two, and i never uploaded a binary, and in fact, valve doesn't care, the client is still up, and they didn't care about people doing the same for mac os client or people posting instructions how to get cracked steam
jumbers: mastertheknife: Ignore them
jumbers: Valve will know on Monday no matter what :p
mastertheknife: jumbers: there's this post, this guy is asking to remove it from the main site
jumbers: :|
mastertheknife: jumbers: the last post.. http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23522&page=3
jumbers: Well, I've already sent an email to Dan Berger and I'm not taking down my mirror of the patches, so they can try to remove anything from Phoronix. It won't change the fact that Dan Berger has an email sitting his his mailbox right now that has those 2 patches
mastertheknife: Seems clear that this guy didn't do his homework, no binaries were ever uploaded, and no hacking was done, just fixing a bug or two, and it seems valve doesn't mind
mastertheknife: I just wanted to see what is the client all about, i needed an evidence for myself that its really a linux client
mastertheknife: :)
ework: LD_PRELOAD=/store/Downloads/libstub.so.1.0 ../../test filesystem_steam.so
ework: ../../test: symbol lookup error: /store/Downloads/libstub.so.1.0: undefined symbol: __gxx_personality_v0
ework: got something new
espes: jumbers: Did you send the patches or a link to the patches?
ework: now it doesnt like not having libstdc++ loaded
jumbers: A link to the patches, hosted on my server
espes: jumbers: right
jumbers: I couldn't send attachments anyway, I used their email form
ework: ok now I got a new problem
ework: /store/Downloads/steam/linux32/filesystem_steam.so: undefined symbol: _ZN9CVProfileD1Ev
espes: jumbers: Are you hosting the new vgui patch?
jumbers: mastertheknife: Responded to that guy's post
jumbers: espes: No, lemme mirror both, 1 sec
espes: jumbers: Just swap it out
jumbers: Ok
espes: jumbers: kthx
jumbers: Swapped
espes: wouldn't want my 1337 openGL fix going unnoticed :P
jumbers: I wonder if Dan will respond to me
jumbers: What are you using to debug?
ework: wow thats cool!
ework: c++filt will demangle
ework: c++filt _ZN9CVProfileD1Ev = CVProfile::~CVProfile()
mastertheknife: jumbers: I only used objdump -S and gdb
mastertheknife: ework: nice :)
ework: well 100% for sure there is a .so missing
ework: the implementation of quite a few classes is missing
ework: /store/Downloads/steam/linux32/filesystem_steam.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10CVProfNode10GetSubNodeEPKciS1_i
jumbers: Do you know what the name of the .so is?
ework: thats the next one
ework: ldd shows all dependencies being resolved so it must be loaded using dlopen or its preload like I'm trying to do
ework: might be able to figure it out using "strings"
jumbers: What exactly are you trying to get working?
jumbers: Text?
ework: trying to get it working without any patches
ework: and also understand hows it put together better
ework: c++filt _ZN10CVProfNode10GetSubNodeEPKciS1_i
ework: CVProfNode::GetSubNode(char const*, int, char const*, int)
ework: seems CVProfNode class isn't in any of the .so files
ework: wow it passed
jumbers: Hmm?
ework: LD_PRELOAD=/store/Downloads/libstub.so.1.0 ../../test filesystem_steam.so
ework: If no error showed up, all ok
ework: I resolved all the missing symbols with stubs
jumbers: I don't get it
ework: mastertheknife got the gui to load by making two .so's load lazily so they find the functions at usage time. I'm trying to resolve those missing symbols so it loads without the patch
mastertheknife: jumbers: I replied to the one that said dont hack steam: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23522&page=4
mastertheknife: :)
jumbers: They're just dumb :p
jumbers: That guy would probably shit his pants if he read the post I made in the other thread where I mentioned that I emailed Dan Berger
mastertheknife: heh
ework: there is a lot of missing symbols
ework: so far they all reside in two classes
mastertheknife: ework: From your point of view, why do you think it happend?
mastertheknife: ework: Was it done by valve on purpose ?
ework: I think they dont test the pushed binaries so they probably dont know its not in there
ework: thats my guess
ework: they probably test from a code checkout or something and their packaging maybe forget to include it
jumbers: It probably autobuilds changes
jumbers: The builds come from /home/VALVE/rackadmin which doesn't sound like a person's dev machine
ework: a strings search for *.so might show something?
ework: I'm working one by one through the missing symbols using mastertheknife's dlopen test program
jumbers: /home/VALVE/rackadmin/buildslave
jumbers: Yeah, definitely autobuilds
ework: its entertaining to use your computer when you can't see the cursor
jumbers: All you need to do is launch another program
ework: it happens every so often at work, you add a new code file but forget to check it in so no one else can compile
jumbers: Or killall nautilus
ework: thanks that worked
ework: these classes all relate to profile management
ework: CVProfileArray CVProfile
jumbers: mastertheknife: What you did IS hacking. :) People just don't understand that hacking is not inherently a malicious thing. It's gotten a bad connotation
mastertheknife: Oh well
mastertheknife: too late to edit the post now
mastertheknife: lol
jumbers: 7. Computers . to devise or modify (a computer program), usually skillfully.
jumbers: lol. Even the definition trolls the script kiddies
anachron: ework: can this be of any help? http://svn.bgmod.com/code/trunk/public/tier0/vprof.h has a definition for CVProfNode.
ework: oh wow wonder who found that
ework: wow this looks like the missing fil
anachron: it was a simple google away :)
ework: it has CVProfNode CVProfile, the two main classes that are missing
ework: nice ExitScore returns a bool
jumbers: What the heck? It has a valve copyright and all
anachron: I think it's from the source SDK
ework: hmm might need to download that
jumbers: I didn't think the SDK provided any source
espes: jumbers: It's just a header
ework: damn I need to reboot to windows since the sdk requires steam to install
ework: I'll look into that later going to see if I can get this working using stubs I think I'm close
espes: ework: might this be related to why the config registry is broken?
ework: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Compiling_under_Linux
jumbers: Oh nice, on the Steam under Linux page on their wiki: "Please note: Games run with these methods will be slower than running them on Windows because the games are not native executable files. To get the best performance we will need to wait for Valve to release a native Steam client (which is now rumoured to be happening)."
jumbers: The magic of wikis
ework: anyone know what windows dll has these classes?
ework: something like dependency walker should make this semi-easy I think
ework: we need the .so to match whatever that is
espes: ework: What are you working on?
ework: trying to load all the dlls without using lazy binding
ework: i mean .so's
ework: ok I found a gcc 4.4 hack of the SDK
espes: ework: And what, some symbols are missing?
ework: http://svn.alliedmods.net/viewvc.cgi/hl2sdk-ob/?root=sourcemm
ework: a lot
espes: ework: Like?
espes: I'm not so sure
ework: http://pastebin.com/Z8GMKnJr
ework: thats what I've stubbed so far
ework: I'm thinking it may be easier to just copy that header file and shrink it down than keep adding them to my file
espes: ework: They're defined in the steam binary
ework: oh really?
espes: ework: yeah
ework: your right
ework: wonder why it can't find them then
ework: I see why
ework: 13880: 08146226 727 FUNC GLOBAL HIDDEN 12 _ZN9CVProfileD2Ev
ework: HIDDEN taking one example
ework: guessing that has something to do with it
espes: ework: What's wrong with it using lazy binding? Sure, it's a hack, but afaik it's not causing any problems.
ework: I'm wonder if there are other things in there required
ework: also its interesting to see if it can be done
espes: ework: Right-o
ework: itd be nice not to have to patch it everytime
mastertheknife: ework is right though, lazy binding should be only used as temporary fix
espes: true
espes: Anyway, no once the client config isn't being loaded, it's never even instancing the registry manager
espes: no onder*
espes: no wonder**
ework: espes, what are you working on?
espes: ework: Trying to get it to login
ework: ah cool, you get any text?
espes: ework: I patched out rendering fonts, but who needs fonts anyway :P
ework: the blind sure dont :)
jumbers: I bet the Linux version will available shortly
ework: nice it has the code for EnterScope etc
ework: ok just downloaded this moded version of the Orange Box SDK for GCC 4.4 lets see what I can can compile
hestehest: Im following you guys with excitement ;)
jumbers: I hope Dan Berger emails me back
DeathCrawler: :]
ework: looks like I need GCC 4.2 to compile this
jumbers: I'll be disappointed if he just ignores my email
ework: ok I need to setup a VM or something to compile this SDK
ework: maybe I can just pull out what I need an make it into a shared library
jumbers: Grab an Ubuntu image
ework: I have all the old CDs need to find one with gcc 4.2
jumbers: You can even just grab a minimal disc that's command line based
jumbers: They're only like ~100mb
ework: ok
ework: ok 8.04 hardy has gcc 4.2
ework: installing ubuntu server 8.04.2 i386 since I already have the CD
jumbers: So I wonder what day the Mac version is coming out
jumbers: June 1st?
ework: ok installed an booted into ubuntu server
kenmcfa: hello
mastertheknife: hi
Flyser_: jumbers 12th of may I think
mastertheknife: 12th may probably
jumbers: Flyser_: That's May 12th Valve time.
Flyser_: lol^^
jumbers: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
jumbers: Early to Mid-June is probably the better guess
ework: some things compile
ework: tier1 compile not sure what that is
ework: compiled*
jumbers: Does OSX have the SteamUI overlay?
mikeplus64: Hypehypehypehype. :)
Cassull: hi
mastertheknife: I have to go to work.. good luck espes and ework :)
ework: thanks
ework: ok I'm off I'll have to continue working on getting these symbols resolved tomorrow
espes: woot, I has partial success
jumbers: espes: What sort of success
espes: jumbers: The login function ran kinda
jumbers: :O
espes: "SteamLogin() success"
espes: but hmm, it be frozen
jumbers: What did you do
espes: hacked out config stuff from CSteamLoginDialog::OnLogin()
jumbers: Did it display any text in the window?
espes: jumbers: ?
Nevtus: so did this happen when you managed to pass your steam username/password to it somehow?
espes: Nevtus: Passing it to -login user pass
jumbers: espes: When I pass it -login user pass, it aborts itself
espes: jumbers: there's a segfault that I'm trying to hack around
jumbers: It's not segfaulting, it just aborts itself
espes: jumbers: ?
espes: jumbers: Try with gdb
michaellarabel: Wow, lots of new people in IRC with the Steam talk.
jumbers: Lots of hits to my site with the .patch files too
Megagun: It's fun to idle and watch people hack away. :)
jumbers: Over 300 hits on steamui.patch
michaellarabel: So less than 2% trying out the patch... Over 18,000 views of the first screenshot.
espes: http://www.filedropper.com/steamuifailpatch2
espes: That'll make it log in, but then it ceases to do anything
espes: It's probably because of my fail-patch
jumbers: The failpatch is just to patch for non-nvidia drivers?
jumbers: Also, mirroring
espes: jumbers: failpatch1 disabled text rendering
espes: failpatch2 disables text rendering and hacks apart the OnLogin function
Megagun: espes: does the logging in work? Can a friend of you see on their steam client that you have been logged in succesfully?
espes: Megagun: Dunno
espes: Megagun: try
espes: It reports "SteamLogin() success"
Megagun: Do you have access to a working installation of Steam?
espes: Megagun: What do you mean?
Megagun: I'm running it right here, could friend you up and see if it works.
jumbers: I dunno, whenever I add -login to the run.sh, gdb complains -login isn't a valid parameter
Nevtus: does steam allow you to be logged in twice with the same account?
espes: jumbers: in gdb go "set args -login blah blah"
Nevtus: if not try running both it in both wine and native
Megagun: But I think you can only accept friend invites through the Steam Client
jumbers: Nevtus: It does not
jumbers: It should complain though
espes: jumbers: Actually, disregard what I said about the patches
Nevtus: yeah, hopefully it would not show success then
espes: jumbers: Clearly I don't remember everything I've patched
jumbers: So get rid of failpatch2?
espes: jumbers: The patch I just posted beats the OnLogin() function into submission
espes: 'failpatch' basically means it's a test and probably breaks more than it fixes
anachron: jumbers: you can run it like so: DEBUGGER="gdb --args" ./mod-steam.sh -login user pass
espes: anachron: can you?
espes: anachron: nifty
anachron: works for me, at least.
jumbers: I dunno, it still aborts when I try with the -login
espes: jumbers: aborts with what?
jumbers: Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
jumbers: 0x0012d422 in __kernel_vsyscall ()
espes: jumbers: backtrace?
ipx: Keep up the good work!
jumbers: http://pastebin.com/xRsSYmHN
jumbers: It gives me the flash of a window too
ipx: Wicla_: \:D/
espes: jumbers: I fixed that... hmm
espes: jumbers: Are you sure you're patching it right?
FreelanceJazz: I must say, this is very interesting.
jumbers: It's only if I use -login
espes: disabling DrawPrintText should be part of the patch file
jumbers: I'll try repatching again though
espes: or was it?
espes: I don't remember -_-
jumbers: Yeah, it still does it
jumbers: But ONLY if I add -login user pass
jumbers: If I don't add the argument, it loads up the window
espes: jumbers: Wait, I'll need to sort out my patchfiles
jumbers: :)
espes: ok, so
espes: patches in steamui:
espes: 1. fucking with the OnLogin function
espes: 2. fucking with the vgui::TextImage::Paint() function
espes: patches in vgui:
espes: 1. Removing tolower from resource load
espes: 2. forcing in a glXMakeCurrent call
espes: the vgui patch in steamui instead of vgui was confusing me
espes: oh and ofcourse mastertheknife's steamui patches
jumbers: I'm not sure why it dies when adding the -login
espes: jumbers: it crashes because it has to draw the login dialog, and fails at drawing the text entry thingo
jumbers: Ah
espes: fonts are all screwed for some reason
jumbers: I thought you were getting a success though
espes: Works on my computer :\
preludelinux: wassup everyone
jumbers: It doesn't abort for you when you do it?
espes: jumbers: Nope, it draws the text entries just fine
jumbers: I'm wondering if it might be a packages difference
jumbers: espes: Did that backtrace I posted make any sense?
espes: jumbers: yes
espes: jumbers: http://www.filedropper.com/steamuifailpatch3
espes: should fix it
espes: and by fix it, I mean disable the feature that makes it crash
jumbers: espes: Success!
jumbers: I'm logged in
espes: jumbers: ?
jumbers: SteamLogin() success
espes: ah
espes: does anything happen?
jumbers: I got a login window that flashed up, then it vanished and gave me the SteamLogin() success
espes: Hmm
espes: is curious as the the contents of the window
jumbers: Pretty sure that window is just the login window where you enter username and password
espes: Also, I wonder if it will register to other that you are logged in
espes: jumbers: oh
jumbers: I just logged in on my Windows computer too
jumbers: Didn't bump me off
espes: Hmm...
FreelanceJazz: Really? Interesting... It usually does...
jumbers: Oh, I know. I'll login and see if SteamCommunity says I'm online
Megagun: jumbers: I wonder what will happen when someone messages you
jumbers: I doubt it will show in the Friends list
jumbers: Okay, it doesn't log you in to community stuff. I think it's just checking that the username and password are valid and reporting success
preludelinux: interesting
jumbers: Also, I know on the Mac beta, it boots you off if you aren't authorized for the beta
jumbers: At least according to a screenshot I saw
espes: jumbers: It only boots you off when entering the store
jumbers: Oh
jumbers: Hmm
espes: It probably doesn't log in properly
espes: It /is/ a failpatch
espes: but gah
jumbers: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It just check the username and password but doesn't fully log in
espes: if it segfaulted or something, at least I'd know what's wrong
espes: The worst thing a program ca do while debugging is nothing >:(
jumbers: This may be all it's capable of doing so far
jumbers: espes: Run with strace, it's clearly doing things
espes: jumbers: orly?
espes: a fat lot of nothing for me :\
jumbers: Stuff is scrolling by
espes: jumbers: ?
espes: jumbers: What stuff?
jumbers: Here's a small exerpt
jumbers: read(7, "\1 \263\217\t\0\0\0#\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\t\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 4096) = 68
jumbers: read(7, 0x9ec0db0, 4096) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
jumbers: poll([{fd=7, events=POLLIN|POLLOUT}], 1, -1) = 1 ([{fd=7, revents=POLLOUT}])
jumbers: writev(7, [{"\3\0\2\0\n\0 \3\16\0\2\0\n\0 \3", 16}, {NULL, 0}, {"", 0}], 3) = 16
jumbers: poll([{fd=7, events=POLLIN}], 1, -1) = 1 ([{fd=7, revents=POLLIN}])
jumbers: read(7, "\1\0\264\217\3\0\0\0\310\0\0\0\1\0\0\1\377\377\377\377\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\t\0 \3"..., 4096) = 76
jumbers: read(7, 0x9ec0db0, 4096) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
jumbers: gettimeofday({1272808102, 255228}, NULL) = 0
jumbers: read(7, 0x9ec0db0, 4096) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
Kame: Erm
Kame: Whatists
Kame: with your failpatch
Kame: do you get a blue window?
Kame: And a black window?
espes: Kame: ?
jumbers: What kind of blue window
Kame: I've got two windows, one's just sort of a gradiated blue
Kame: the other is black and says steam
espes: Kame: After or before logging in?
Kame: Looks like my login failed
Kame: My login shouldn't be failing though
Kame: Wait a second
Kame: fuckiing bash
Kame: Yeah, if it succeeds I just get a window for a split second
jumbers: And then vanishes
jumbers: But it should report SteamLogin() success
Kame: Yeah
jumbers: Well, that's as far as it's going for now
Kame: And if it doesn't succeed the login window stays up, as does that wierd blue window
jumbers: It doesn't seem to do anything beyond that, nor report any failures
Kame: Could be all the "Resource temporarily unavailable"
Kame: What's it trying to access?
jumbers: If only I spoke hex memory addresses
jumbers: It's trying to read the same address over and over
jumbers: It's looking for something specific
jumbers: So it definitely not giving up yet
jumbers: Is there any way I can read that memory address?
Kame: Turning on all the debugging I know of in steam.cfg still gets me nothing
Kame: May- 2-2010 1.049 Creating new CAccount for User 'KameZero' for client 10803
Kame: May- 2-2010 1.049 Added handle 0xab0001, for client 10803, to pending list
Kame: May- 2-2010 1.049 SteamLogin(KameZero,******,true,0xbfd12374) succeeded
Kame: May- 2-2010 1.797 Removed handle 0xab0001 from pending list
Kame: SteamLogin() success
jumbers: I'd love to know what that address is
jumbers: Does Temporarily Unavailable mean that it's there and can't read it or that it's non-existent?
Kame: What address is yours looking for?
jumbers: It's not going to be the same address. It changes with each run
jumbers: For obvious reasons
Kame: UNLESS valve hard coded it in!
jumbers: Nope, I ran it twice
Kame: Ah
jumbers: I don't think Valve would be dumb enough to hard code in a memory address
Kame: They were dumb enough to not know linux was case sensitive
jumbers: :)
jumbers: That's why I emailed the developer
jumbers: I basically told him to be more conscious of the fact that Linux is case sensitive
ChemBro: and this developer is a linux-dev?
jumbers: He's the developer for both the Linux and Mac versions it seems
jumbers: Dan Berger
jumbers: This little mention on the Valve People page confirmed for me that he's a Linux dev though: "Despite his complete lack of game-industry qualifications - unless 20-odd years of pen-and-paper role-playing count - he made his save vs. interview and got invited to join the party."
jumbers: Wow. I should have read the other bios... Dan Berger is the only one that they don't mention what he actually does
burra: he has a linked in account
burra: http://www.linkedin.com/in/dberger
jumbers: I hope he doesn't take offense to the fact that I told him to pay more attention to case sensitivity :p
Kame: He's prolly gonna stop working on it now
jumbers: lolwut
burra: :)
jumbers: Hopefully he appreciates the patches
Kame: Hmm, apparantly EAGAIN means that there's no data there
christian_lappy: mastertheknife: sorry for offending you for the steam patch..i thought you pushed up a modified steam binary..my fault..
jumbers: He's at work
christian_lappy: jumbers: on sunday ? ..oh
jumbers: I believe his forum location said he lives in Israel
jumbers: So that makes sense
christian_lappy: yup
christian_lappy: but he invested a lot of time getting this working i guess
jumbers: Not just him, espes too
christian_lappy: then thanks to espes also
jumbers: :)
Kame: I did a lot of work downloading patches and trying them! That totally counts
christian_lappy: Kame: and thanks :-)
jumbers: Kame: Then I did a lot of work hosting the .patch files :p
jumbers: And emailing Dan Berger
Kame: Yup!
jumbers: That was fun
christian_lappy: looking at the second picutre of the login screen, i'm missing text boxes t enter something ;-)
jumbers: Yes, there isn't gonna be anything yet
christian_lappy: jumbers: imho, i would stop digging any further
jumbers: I already emailed the Valve developer with links to the patches
christian_lappy: let the valve guys di there work, check once a week wether it starts or not..
Kame: Where's the fun in that?
jumbers: I told him to pay more attention to case sensitivity too
christian_lappy: jumbers: joking ?
jumbers: christian_lappy: No, dead serious
christian_lappy: jumbers: how do you guys knwo what to tell him without being able to look at the sources ?
christian_lappy: jumbers: i still hope you are joking
jumbers: mastertheknife and espes made binary patch files
jumbers: No, I am not joking.
jumbers: Why would I joke about that?
jumbers: espes: Should I be mirroring the failpatches too? Or did you not want them up since they break functionality to make functionality?
Sir_Brizz: it doesn't make sense that Valve would really care about this
Sir_Brizz: they can move the files at any time
espes: jumbers: Whatever you want
Kame: Hmm? They didn't break any functionality for me
Sir_Brizz: or remove them
jumbers: Kame: They disable the text drawing so that a window pops up
christian_lappy: why would someone send patches for an unrelaesed unofficial software to the developer jumbers ?
jumbers: So that they fix it
Kame: Text drawing is disable anyway
jumbers: Obviously
Kame: in that drawing text will "disable" your program
jumbers: Kame: Right, but if it's not patched, it crashes it
christian_lappy: Sir_Brizz: i'm not 100% sure about that
Sir_Brizz: why would they leave the files up in the same location if they were diametrically opposed to people having them?
Kame: Oh hey, your failpatch makes one of the buttons in the -install x option actually do something
jumbers: It gives you a weird blue box, right?
christian_lappy: Sir_Brizz: maybe some kind of closed beta ?
jumbers: It's not a closed beta
jumbers: It's nearly non-functional
jumbers: Most of the stuff is broken as of now
jumbers: These are autobuilds that are being generated
christian_lappy: so, far away from the mac client state ?
jumbers: If you've looked at the screenshots, you'd see
jumbers: Text won't print, windows vanish
Sir_Brizz: the underlying code isn't that far off but the ui drawing stuff isn't far along at all
christian_lappy: i have seen 2 screenies without text
Kame: Oh, and it makes boxes in the normal window, this failpatch adds all kinds of functionality!
jumbers: Kame: Which failpatch?
Kame: 3
jumbers: Did you try it with the -login function?
Kame: Yeah
jumbers: :)
Kame: It's interesting when it fails
Sir_Brizz: also, it's kind of a misnomer to say that the client is being "hacked"
jumbers: What's more interesting to me is when it succeeds and keeps hitting that 1 address
Kame: Oh shit
jumbers: No, hacking is the correct term
Kame: When it fails and brings up a blue box
Kame: the box has an invisible link to https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?p_faqid=368
Sir_Brizz: jumbers, technically you might be right, but saying hacked in this context has quite a different meaning
jumbers: People don't seem to understand the meaning of hacking
jumbers: 7. Computers. to devise or modify (a computer program), usually skillfully.
Sir_Brizz: exactly
Sir_Brizz: I meant this
Sir_Brizz: The client
Sir_Brizz: isn't even released and it already gets hacked ?
Sir_Brizz: the obvious implication being that people are making it do something that it should not be able to do
jumbers: Yeah, cracked would be the right word there, which is not being cracked
Kame: I'm pretty sure it SHOULD be able to draw a window
Sir_Brizz: yes, indeed
jumbers: I think people hear "computer hackers" on their TV or something and think that hacking is a bad thing
Sir_Brizz: lol
jumbers: We wouldn't have computers if we didn't have hackers
Sir_Brizz: we wouldn't have video games ifwe didn't have hackers
jumbers: At least not computers in their current states
jumbers: Video games too
Sir_Brizz: considering that pretty much every founder of video game companies was a hacker trying to make computers do things that nobody else was trying to do
jumbers: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/hats-ties/6345/ Want
Sir_Brizz: hahaha
Sir_Brizz: awesome
jumbers: "Hackers Are Defined By The Color Of Their Hat"
jumbers: Obviously buying the white one would be uncool though
christian_lappy: lol
jumbers: Hopefully Dan emails me back and/or appreciates the patches :3
ChemBro: or slaps you
jumbers: Right...
jumbers: Sure
christian_lappy: jumbers: or you get an email from a valve laywer
Sir_Brizz: or laughs at people for trying to make the client run yet
jumbers: christian_lappy: Yeah, I highly doubt that.
Sir_Brizz: what would a Valve lawyer say?
Sir_Brizz: You downloaded files off a publicly available mirror and messed around with it?
jumbers: They'd say "Congrats, you succeed"
jumbers: And created binary patches that do not include any of their code
Kame: And were used only for comparability reasons
Kame: er, compatibility
Sir_Brizz: hehe
jumbers: I'd love to see Valve legal go after me for posting patches.
ChemBro: you mean like apple and gizmodo?
jumbers: ...
jumbers: That has to do with stolen physical property
jumbers: They're not even in the same realm
jumbers: gb2troll
Sir_Brizz: lol
jumbers: You're comparing apples to elephants
ChemBro: come down, man
ChemBro: you're overreacting
jumbers: Well, it's somewhat offensive that you're implying that anything we've done here is even remotely wrong
ChemBro: that was your interpretation, come down
jumbers: If anybody would like the failpatch, it's available at http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/steamui_failpatch3.patch
jumbers: lol, somebody is trying to look at the directly
jumbers: directory*
jumbers: Not gonna find anything there ;)
manaphuun: jumbers: do i have to apply the failpatch in addition to or instead of the original patch?
jumbers: No, all you need is failpatch3
manaphuun: thx
Sir_Brizz: what does the failpatch do?
jumbers: For whoever is 77.255.*.*, failpatch1 is just steamui_failpatch.patch
jumbers: There's no 1 in it
jumbers: It disables some things so that you get a window
jumbers: Disables broken things to be specific
Sir_Brizz: does that make it work on intel crap?
jumbers: Yes
Sir_Brizz: fancy
Sir_Brizz: guess I'll get out my laptop and give it a run
jumbers: I am running Intel Crap965
Sir_Brizz: oh me too
Sir_Brizz: I hate this stupid graphics card
jumbers: Make sure you get the vgui patch also
jumbers: You need the vgui and failpatch3
Sir_Brizz: oh where is that one
jumbers: The file is vgui2_s.patch
jumbers: Same directory
manaphuun: i also get the strange blue window if i do -install D: and then close the installer window
jumbers: Yeah, I haven't figured out what that box is
jumbers: It looks like maybe an About window
jumbers: But there's no controls on it
sadhu: hi, that was me trying to get that files
Kame: There's a link in there
jumbers: sadhu: :)
Kame: An invisible link
Kame: Or there is on mine at least
sadhu: i cant get it run
jumbers: Did you apply the patch with bspatch?
sadhu: steam segfaults
sadhu: yes
jumbers: Both vgui2_s.patch and failpatch3?
Kame: Oh, hrm there's not a link in that one
sadhu: no vgui path
Kame: If you run it with -login 123 123
Kame: Then there's a link in the blue window
jumbers: Kame: If you fail the login it does?
Kame: Hmm, nope
Kame: has to be a disable account
jumbers: What do you mean by disabled
Kame: like
Kame: 123 123
Sir_Brizz: cool I got it up
Sir_Brizz: did anyone try applaunch?
jumbers: Because I get this if I enter the wrong password
jumbers: SteamLogin() failure : SteamProcessCall(Login)(0xab0001,0xbfa750d8,0xbfa74fcc) failed with error 110: Login failed. This account does not exist, or the password is incorrect.
jumbers: Steam error: SteamProcessCall(Login)(0xab0001,0xbfa750d8,0xbfa74fcc) failed with error 110: Login failed. This account does not exist, or the password is incorrect.
Kame: And it brings up a blue winow?
jumbers: And a blue box with nothing inside
Kame: Yeah, do -login 123 123
jumbers: Oh cool
jumbers: I clicked a link
sadhu: ok it works now - the initial window
Sir_Brizz: none of the controls work on that initial window
Kame: Yup
jumbers: The one with the big Steam logo?
sadhu: yup
Sir_Brizz: yeah
jumbers: The controls work for me
jumbers: You can't minimize or close it?
Kame: I think he means the buttons
Sir_Brizz: yeah the minimize and close buttons don't work
Kame: Oh, those work for me
Kame: huh
jumbers: They work for me, dunno
Sir_Brizz: hold on I'll screenshot what mine looks like
jumbers: Kame: When I click the link, it spams me with
jumbers: ERROR: ld.so: object './linux32/steamui.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
Kame: Yeah, same
jumbers: And then launches my browser
outer: same here
jumbers: Also, is the article loading?
jumbers: It isn't for me
Sir_Brizz: http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1231/steama.png
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: That's the same one I can get, but the minimize and close buttons work
Sir_Brizz: huh weird
jumbers: What are you running on?
Sir_Brizz: whenever I switch away from it, it jumps to 0,0 and then back to the middle of the screen
DeathCrawler: http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1551/65465465.jpg >> nothing here :<
Sir_Brizz: KDE 4.4 on Kubuntu 10.04
jumbers: Oh look, I see myself
jumbers: DeathCrawler: It just hangs with that?
DeathCrawler: yep
jumbers: And you're using the vgui patch and failpatch3?
DeathCrawler: Yep
DeathCrawler: :<
Sir_Brizz: that's the only window I can get up
jumbers: Hmm... How long ago did you download the vgui patch? Because like 6 hours ago we updated it
Kame: What's the vgui patch for?
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: Having trouble getting it up? ;)
DeathCrawler: jumbers: link for latest vgui patch, please
Sir_Brizz: well I mean if I launch with -login 123 123
Sir_Brizz: the window is the same and the controls still don't work :)
jumbers: DeathCrawler: It's the same link as it was
jumbers: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s.patch
burra: have anybody tested -login backup backup |portal ARG BBS login| :D
jumbers: Kame: I've forgotten now. I believe the first thing was to fix the case sensitivity for the .res files but there's something else in there now
Sir_Brizz: do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Sir_Brizz: Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
jumbers: Could be a problem with the libs KDE installs?
jumbers: I have no clue
Kame: Oh shit
jumbers: What
Kame: If you do -login with a bad user name and pass
Kame: and hit esc, you can totally use the login window!
jumbers: huh?!
jumbers: goes to try
Kame: ohshit
Kame: wtf is this widnow?
jumbers: Bad as in incorrect or bad as in 123 123
Kame: incorrect
jumbers: It just aborted for me
Kame: hrm
Kame: Did you use a valid username?
jumbers: Valid username, wrong password
Kame: Huh, why's it work for me?
Kame: I hit esc, the blue box goes away and then I can use the login window
jumbers: An X Error occured
jumbers: X Error of failed request: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter)
Kame: I can even click the little remember password check box
jumbers: You can type into it?
Kame: Yeah, if I put in my username and pass
Kame: it brings up a new window
jumbers: When I hit escape it tries to draw something and dies
jumbers: espes: New development here
manaphuun: hm, the steam window flickers and jumps to 0,0 and screen center back and forth so i cant really click anything, but i can jump around the input fields with tab
Kame: Hrm
Kame: which one of these buttons is login?
Kame: This no text thing sucks
jumbers: It's trying to find a cursor for me and dies
espes: jumbers: Yeah the login window works fine if you get past the welcome dialog
jumbers: I can't tell what's causing this X error
Kame: SteamLogin() success
Kame: Bleh
Kame: Useless login window
Kame: I wonder if I can create a new account with it
espes: Kame: I don't think so, the crypto libs are broken
Kame: Nooooooo
Kame: Wait, how can it tell when we login then?
jumbers: It's definitely checking the username and password correctly
jumbers: It knows who I am
Kame: It even brings up the subscriber agreement!
jumbers: I don't think it's all integrated in the backend yet though, since it doesn't bump me off of my Windows Steam, nor does it show as being logged in on steamcommunity.com
Kame: .... which I just agreed to!? Why did I do that!?
jumbers: Kame: :O
jumbers: Now I'm mad that I'm getting this X error
Kame: I'll just tell the judge that it was technically just a black box
Sir_Brizz: weird
Sir_Brizz: you guys are just running ./run.sh -login 123 123?
jumbers: -login username wrongpassword
Kame: SteamRequestForgottenPasswordEmail(KameZeroKameZero,,0xbfb26b34) succeeded
Kame: Hah
jumbers: D:
jumbers: Now look for an email
Sir_Brizz: huh weird
Kame: Yeah, there's not one :(
jumbers: Well wait, Valve's servers could be slow
Sir_Brizz: I can't get any different windows than the one
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: Add the -login inside of run.sh
Kame: Well, shortly after that, it did this
Kame: ./steam.sh: line 63: 12709 Segmentation fault ${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE} $@
jumbers: Aww, segfault :(
Sir_Brizz: ahhh
Sir_Brizz: i was wrong about how run works
Sir_Brizz: bbiab
Kame: Oh, maybe it didn't work because I was apparently typing KameZero twice
Kame: Curse you lack of text!
jumbers: Try again!
jumbers: Wait, did it print your password there in plaintext?
Kame: No?
jumbers: KameZeroKameZero,,0xbfb26b34 There's 2 commas
Kame: I don't remember my password being a blank
Kame: Oh, you mean did I take it out
Kame: no
Sir_Brizz: if I hit escape on the blue window I get a crash
Kame: There's just two commas apparantly
jumbers: There was nothing between there?
Kame: Nope
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: X window crash?
Kame: May- 2-2010 11.857 SteamRequestForgottenPasswordEmail(KameZero,,0xbfc92b84) succeeded
Kame: Still no email though
jumbers: I think Valve is bogged down
jumbers: I couldn't get to the support site
Sir_Brizz: yes X window crash
Sir_Brizz: I tried with install 220
Sir_Brizz: you can progress through some of the screens there
Sir_Brizz: -install 220
Sir_Brizz: no text, though, of course
Sir_Brizz: and on the last screen I got another blue window
Kame: I think that's the new account screen
Kame: Yeah, that's the register new account thing
Kame: first window have a black box in it?
jumbers: Oh wow, the button on the right works
Sir_Brizz: no it has a radio button
jumbers: With -install 220
Kame: Second window then
jumbers: But then I get the blue box that does nothing
Kame: Well, it's telling you that you didn't put anything in those boxes
jumbers: There are no boxes
Kame: Hrm
jumbers: It's the install window
Sir_Brizz: the second screen is clkearly the bog standard "accept the eula" screen
Kame: It totally isn't
jumbers: Ooh, click the middle button
jumbers: And then click it again
jumbers: Black box inside of the window
jumbers: And then 3 buttons
Kame: Yeah
Kame: That's the eula
Kame: second one is i agree
jumbers: D:
Kame: then you get the new accoutn screen
Sir_Brizz: that comes up even when you install games
jumbers: The right one has a hover and the middle one doesn't
Sir_Brizz: the third screen has three boxes on it
jumbers: The left does nothing and seems grayed out
Sir_Brizz: or buttons
Kame: May- 2-2010 19.918 SteamIsAccountNameInUse(kamezer1,*0xbf9ae78c=false,*0xbf9ae554) succeeded
Kame: !
jumbers: :O
Sir_Brizz: it could be a register user screen
Kame: ./steam.sh: line 63: 12917 Segmentation fault ${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE} $@
Kame: :(
jumbers: Kame: How the heck
Kame: I tabbed a lot
jumbers: That means it realized you're logged in elsewhere/
jumbers: ?*
Kame: No, it realizes that Kamezer1
Kame: is not in use
Kame: and can be registered
jumbers: Oh, you're trying to register
Kame: May- 2-2010 13.698 SteamIsAccountNameInUse(kamezero,*0xbfb9ed5c=false,*0xbfb9eb24) succeeded
Kame: And apparantly KameZero isn't registered either
jumbers: Is that your username?
Kame: Yeah
jumbers: So it's not working entirely
Kame: Would seem so
jumbers: It thinks nobody is registered
jumbers: Which makes me think it's not fully integrated to the backend
Nevtus: which would make sense for a beta client. They wouldn't want it touching the production databases
Kame: And yet it still knows out usernames and passwords
Kame: our*
Nevtus: it's probably using a snapshot of the database at one point on a test server
Kame: The server it's connecting to is 72.165.61.139
Sir_Brizz: ah interesting
Sir_Brizz: at login it works just doesn't bring up the main ui
Nevtus: hmm
Kame: Hmm, maybe if we make it use tcp
Kame: Nope, that didn't help anything
jumbers: goes packet sniffing
Sir_Brizz: did you try -debug?
manaphuun: change graphics/radUnselStd.tga to RadUnselStd.tga and you get a 2nd checkbox
manaphuun: they really need to pay attention to case sensitivity :/
jumbers: That's why I reminded Dan of it
Kame: There's also something else you can do to get a cool logo
Kame: Copy uhhh
manaphuun: splash.tga
jumbers: Is it the animation?
Sir_Brizz: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Command_Line_Options#Steam_.28Windows.29
Kame: steam_splash_fallback.tga
Kame: From the resource folder
Kame: to splash.tga in the public folder
jumbers: Wait, from where to where
jumbers: Oh
jumbers: Okay
Kame: That's the only files with "splash" in the name I could find
Kame: so I assume that's it
manaphuun: to public/splash.tga
jumbers: And then run with which command
Kame: install has it I think
jumbers: Aha!
jumbers: The same one that loads for the welcome screen
jumbers: RadUnselStd apparently adds a radio button that does nothing/
jumbers: ?*
manaphuun: i dont know, i cant click on any of the buttons
jumbers: The one all the way to the right doesn't work?
jumbers: Using -install 220
manaphuun: i can only use the keyboard to navigate
Sir_Brizz: same mana
Kame: I can use the mouse and some and the keyboard on others
jumbers: Okay, I know that the first button on the -install 220 window is back and the second is forward
jumbers: What is the one to the way right
jumbers: It pops up the dreaded blue box
Kame: cancel
Sir_Brizz: yeah
burra: anybody tested the -dev parameter "-dev Enables developer mode. Also disables the automatic loading of menu background maps and stops the quit dialog from appearing on exit."
jumbers: But it doesn't seem to have any buttons
jumbers: And hitting escape does nothing when it comes up
Sir_Brizz: I get stuck on the blue screens sometimes
Sir_Brizz: Escape should always close them if they are working right
Kame: Sometimes they don't though
jumbers: burra: -dev gives me the welcome screen
Sir_Brizz: I tried doing -login with -install
Sir_Brizz: nothing
Kame: Some blue boxes will just freeze it for me
Sir_Brizz: just logs me in
burra: jumbers: ok
Kame: -dev mixed with other parameters doesn't do much
Sir_Brizz: nope
Sir_Brizz: oh
Sir_Brizz: I just got "timeout connecting to 192.168.0.1"
Kame: Hmm? where?
Sir_Brizz: I ran with -console
Sir_Brizz: it was a cellID
Sir_Brizz: I hit enter on the welcome screen
jumbers: Gahhhhh, the blue box is cockblocking me with the login screen
jumbers: Right before it appears, I have a cursor in the text box
jumbers: And esc kills it
jumbers: The whole thing
jumbers: Somebody keeps redownloading the same patch files
Kame: I bet they did this just to see how far we'd get
jumbers: Ask Dan :p
Kame: then they're gonna be all "lololololololo, why would we make a linux client?"
jumbers: No, they're gonna have to. Postal3 is coming to Linux
christian_lappy: that means NITHING
jumbers: Um
jumbers: It runs on the Source engine
christian_lappy: yup
jumbers: Why would Valve not put Steam on Linux if Source has been ported to Linux?
Kame: Because they're jerks?
christian_lappy: jumbers: maybe cause they don't want to support it ?
christian_lappy: jumbers: they surely can make a single postal 3 release without steam around
jumbers: When I saw Postal3 announced I don't know how long ago, I was convinced Steam was coming to Linux
christian_lappy: i'm too :-) ..but i want to avoid getting to HUGE hopes ;-)
Kame: I'm convinced that they're announcing steam is coming to linux tomorrow
Sir_Brizz: depends on what kind of integration Postal 3 would have
Aondo: why tomorrow?
christian_lappy: steam on linux will surely push linux on the desktop
Kame: Why not tomorrow?
sadhu: lol
christian_lappy: Kame: tomorrow is monday but what else ?
Sir_Brizz: if it has steam achievements and cloud and uses steamworks, then they would have to do the majority of
Sir_Brizz: Steam conversion anyway
Nevtus: they could have intended that we would poke around with this, like how they tempted the mac users with the mac style valve character photoshops
Kame: Well, it hasn't been proving they're NOT announcing it tomorrow, so I'm choosing to believe they are
Kame: proven*
christian_lappy: lol
christian_lappy: annonce linux support tomorrow ? never
jumbers: There should be a Steam achievement: "Use Linux"
Nevtus: They won't release anything till after the mac os client is out
Nevtus: *announce
Sir_Brizz: you never know :p
christian_lappy: exactly what i think
jumbers: I'm sure this is their way of marketing it. I liked the post somebody made on the forums
jumbers: To build excitement, Apple users get flashy ads. We get dropped hints in the clients and files posted on the internet
Sir_Brizz: the osx client is out in ten days though
jumbers: Ten days Valve time.
christian_lappy: jumbers: if thats theri marketing, then it works damn well
Kame: I like how the "There Is No Doubt, Steam Is Coming To Linux!" thread doubled in posts in the last 2 days
Sir_Brizz: well
Nevtus: they'd lose their new found friends at apple "ruining" the launch with that bombshell
Sir_Brizz: when valve gives a date they usually aren't THAT far off from it
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: Don't confuse time with valve time. They are not the same
Sir_Brizz: plus the client beta ended the exact day they said it would :)
jumbers: SilverCode: You might wanna rethink that statement: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
Sir_Brizz: plus the client beta ended the exact day they said it would :)
Sir_Brizz: ;)
jumbers: All of those are examples of Valve Time in effect
jumbers: And you never want to hear "eventually"
christian_lappy: do you guys all think hl2 ep3 will be released on all 3 plattforms ?
Ivanovic: 3 plattforms?
Ivanovic: it will be released on at least 3 platforms
jumbers: Like Episode Two, Valve divulged little in the way of information about Episode Three, saying only that it was the last "in a trilogy...that will conclude by Christmas of 2007."
Ivanovic: there is windows, xbox360 and mac
jumbers: You forgot Linux
SilverCode: jumbers: I assume you mean Sir_Brizz?
Ivanovic: and *maybe* a native linux version
jumbers: SilverCode: Oh whoops :)
jumbers: Autocomplete :p
jumbers: SilverCode: Maybe you were making a statement and I preempted it with my link
SilverCode: jumbers: yeah, I was just about to mention how Valve always release things on time :)
christian_lappy: what is ryan gordon working on atm ?
jumbers: :)
Sir_Brizz: UT3
Sir_Brizz: :p
Sir_Brizz: speaking of UT3, did anyone ever compare the demo server binaries with the retail server binaries?
jumbers: Unreal Tournament Forever
Aondo: aquaria maybe, saw some messages about that
jumbers: http://icculus.org/pipermail/ut3/2007-October/000057.html
Sir_Brizz: heh
Sir_Brizz: well I'd love to know who is responsible for that not coming out
Sir_Brizz: and Ryan alluded to the fact that comparing the binaries would give you a clue
jumbers: 400 hits on the patch already
jumbers: Only 13 on the vgui2_s one though...
Kame: Do people really think valve would pull the plug on a linux port because linux users are doing what linux users do?
jumbers: Yes, they seem to think that
jumbers: Will they? No
jumbers: Like I mentioned earlier, I think they expect this
jumbers: They must know that this is what the Linux community does
jumbers: I wonder if hoping for a reply from Dan is hoping too much
eXlin: i agree with jumbers. and if they dont like it it's maybe $1k investement software to prevent this happenign and allow still testing to happend, tho they prob allready have tools needed. small investement valve's kind of company
jumbers: I mean, I don't think he can say anything to me that would confirm they're porting it
jumbers: So I may get nothing back
jumbers: Plus, wasn't there a specific job request from Valve for a Linux dev to port games?
Sir_Brizz: something like that
Sir_Brizz: anyway
Sir_Brizz: they took down the update file at one point
Sir_Brizz: why would they have put it back up if they didn't like poeple using it?
Kame: They were hoping we forgot about it?
Sir_Brizz: I'm sure they can tell when people are using it
jumbers: I bet you somebody saw it was being hit, pulled it, and then they decided it was fine
jumbers: And realized that this is a great marketing stunt
jumbers: And that we can't really do any harm
jumbers: Either Valve has a ton of people that are completely lacking of common sense, or this was intentional
jumbers: The most likely thing is that IT pulled it when they saw a ton of hits and then they realized it was a good thing and put it back after having some sort of meeting
Sir_Brizz: I think you're probably right
Sir_Brizz: it's not like they had to include the linux fork in steam.sh on OSX
jumbers: Because as somebody mentioned, they did not pull the OSX or the Windows ones
Sir_Brizz: or any of the other things we've found
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: Well, they just autobuild off the same code
jumbers: There's 1 codebase
Sir_Brizz: right
Sir_Brizz: but nobody would have assumed there was a linux version if they didn't have that fork in there
jumbers: They didn't intentionally add the Linux stuff to the OSX one
jumbers: That would just be unnecessary complexity
Sir_Brizz: they could have gottena round without it is what I'm saying
eXlin: propably 2 different branch tho, one for windows (dx one) and one for unix-relatives.
jumbers: Yeah. The OSX and Linux are most likely coming off the same branch
eXlin: just wondering if they would move completely away from directx in graphic engine, since its cross platform.
jumbers: Though you'd think they would have both the Linux and the OSX binary folders in there
jumbers: So that there would be a *NIX download and a Windows download
eXlin: yeah, somethign like that.
Nevtus: eXlin: they will still use DirectX on Windows, OpenGL on the others
jumbers: Microsoft would sadface at them if they went away from DirectX
eXlin: well there are a lot of opengl games on windows to. but dunno about opengl performance in windows these days. since w7 translates GL commads to dx ones
Nevtus: I think Microsoft is more sadface at the Mac and Linux ports in general
Sir_Brizz: well there is no reason steam.sh had to be the same
Sir_Brizz: none of the packages you get are the same from osx and linux afaik
Nevtus: from my understanding DirectX on Windows is best, OpenGL on other platforms is best
Nevtus: maybe
Gnurdux: eXlin, blargh... common misconception
Gnurdux: the "translates ogl to directx" is a rumor that never really went away
Gnurdux: from Vista
eXlin: ah, ok
Gnurdux: i think vista's built-in graphics drivers did that
Gnurdux: or vista was going to do that
Gnurdux: or something like that
Gnurdux: but vendors still supply OGL drivers
jumbers: I remember trying to run HL way back on XP with OpenGL and it sucked
Nevtus: they obviously have (re)wrote the engine to be able to use both so it's a non issue really. Use whatever is best for the platform at hand
Gnurdux: opengl on other platforms is better because directx isn't available :S
jumbers: And let's keep it that way!
Sir_Brizz: I remember running HL on Windows 98 in OpenGL and it rocked
Sir_Brizz: :p
Gnurdux: from my (possibly incorrect) understanding OpenGL performs comparably and perhaps even better than directx with nvidia cards/drivers
Gnurdux: but worse with ATI
jumbers: I remember killin doodz when I was 7 in Quake
Sir_Brizz: young whippersnapper
jumbers: I rocked at Quake
eXlin: my friend succested canonical should add game store to ubuntuone just to give pressure for valve :P
jumbers: Then I got HL sometime after it won Game of the Year
Gnurdux: anyway there are actually a few OpenGL games on Windows still
jumbers: Single Player was too scary
Sir_Brizz: I was 11 when Wolfenstein 3D came out
Sir_Brizz: well probably 10
Gnurdux: like Brink (the new game being made by ETCW people) still uses OpenGL
jumbers: Actually, I never played Quake single player either, too scary
Gnurdux: *ETQW
Nevtus: well all the Id engines use OpenGL
Gnurdux: right but they rewrote much/most of the engine for Brink
Gnurdux: i think it supports DX10 class features, for instance (using ogl extensions or 3.x i guess)
Gnurdux: anyway, interesting fact
Gnurdux: Nexuiz is getting a dx renderer
Nevtus: it would have to since it is going on the (Direct)Xbox 360 ;)
jumbers: Why is somebody on a Mac downloading the patch files?
Gnurdux: Nevtus, yep
Gnurdux: and that's why
jumbers: Oh wait, I'm reading the useragent wrong
Gnurdux: though i think LordHavoc is also writing a DX10 renderere
jumbers: Why the heck does Chrome say "Safari" in it?
Gnurdux: it's based on Webkit
SilverCode: jumbers: Probably for the same reason IE says "Mozilla" in it
jumbers: Opera only says Opera :)
Sir_Brizz: Opera says "no market share"
Sir_Brizz: :p
jumbers: Opera says I love Opera
Sir_Brizz: Chrome > Opera
jumbers: If that's what you prefer, that's fine
jumbers: For me, Opera > *
Sir_Brizz: I used Opera for a while once
eXlin: btw. any1 know's if valve still takes ppl for mac client beta? I got couple days ago mac for workplace.
jumbers: No, it's closed
jumbers: It's been closed for a while I believe
jumbers: Oh good. "In order to ensure a consistently high quality browser across our most popular desktop platforms we have reluctantly decided to drop support for Solaris. This will allow our UNIX development team to focus all of their attention on bringing Opera for Linux and FreeBSD up to final release quality, meaning that a 10.5x release for these platforms will happen as soon as feasibly possible."
jumbers: No more Solaris
Sir_Brizz: lol
eXlin: ok, so i would need to take some secratary of high positioned boss of valve and ask her personal favour :P
Sir_Brizz: well since Sun is owned by Oracle and Solaris probably won't get enough updates... seems like a good reason to drop it
eXlin: after date ofc^
eXlin: would you think game store for ubuntuone would be any good and would it bring pressure for valve to get linux client ready and shipped asap?
Gnurdux: no
ChemBro: and what would ubuntuone sell?
Gnurdux: very few people really acre about Steam in Linux i think
Gnurdux: i certainly don't
Gnurdux: i want Source in linux
Gnurdux: and i suspect that the two go together
Gnurdux: they did for Mac and ive heard stories about Source for Linux being developed
Sir_Brizz: I'm guessing they already have Source ported to Linux entirely
eXlin: maybe, but i would take even steam as great news. it is another easy distribution platform for game publishers who has decided to go for mac too -> well why not put that "extra 10%" and get linux covered too
hestehest: I think it would be fantastic to have steam on linux, as i hope it would encourage developers to make linux games...
jumbers: As long as you don't have to rebuy the games >:|
Gnurdux: jumbers, i think that almost certainly you wont
Sir_Brizz: lots of games on Steam have "any platform" versions
eXlin: read from 2d boys (i recall) who sayed that if you decide to go for linux its really great decission because you will get extra coverage on slashdot etc... if you support linux. what means higer sales on windows too
Gnurdux: i can't see them making a different policy for Linux and for Mac
Gnurdux: so it should be fine
Gnurdux: Sir_Brizz, what I heard
eXlin: ofc thats for small indies and work only while untill linux is full of commercial games
Gnurdux: was from someone who claimed to be an ex-Red Hat employee
Gnurdux: who said that some people at Red Hat had been working with Valve on a Linux version of Source
Gnurdux: and that when he had last seen it it was based on Winelib
Gnurdux: he wasn't sure if it used the OpenGL renderer
Gnurdux: this was a few months ago apparently
Gnurdux: i don't even know if Red Hat *does* help people port anything to Linux
jumbers: Red Hat will do whatever you want if you pay them
Gnurdux: jumbers, so Red Hat has ported stuff for people?
jumbers: I have no idea
Gnurdux: nor do i
eXlin: tho there are companies who has specialized for porting games to linux
Gnurdux: it wouldn't surprise me
Sir_Brizz: if they have a native OSX version why would they use winelib?
Gnurdux: eXlin, you mean like LGP?
Azerthoth: gawds all this blather about steam as if it were relevant to anything
jumbers: Microsoft will support any version of Windows for you if you pay for a corporate support contract
Gnurdux: Sir_Brizz, this was a few months ago
jumbers: Including ones that are EOL
Gnurdux: and also
Gnurdux: it's not like the OSX one is going to use SDL etc
Gnurdux: don't kid yourself
Ivanovic: Sir_Brizz: ever heard of cider?
Gnurdux: it will use native Mac libraries
Ivanovic: was used eg by EA to port games to max
Gnurdux: Ivanovic, they actually explicitly said they don't use cider i think
Ivanovic: s/max/mac
Ivanovic: basically a kind of wine in an app
Gnurdux: but hte main thing Mac and Linux have in common is OpenGL
eXlin: Gnurdux: yea and igios
Sir_Brizz: I don't know if they will use SDL, but they most certainly will use OpenGL and OpenAL
Gnurdux: i suspect the Winelib based one probably used the OpenGL renderer
Sir_Brizz: also those EA ports using Cider were horrible
Gnurdux: but used Winelib to handle the windowing, networking etc stuff
Ivanovic: sure
Gnurdux: so that they could get good grpahics performance
Gnurdux: without doing much porting
Gnurdux: also, this guy didnt know if they switched away from Winelib later
Gnurdux: lemme see if i can find IRC log
Gnurdux: this was actually something that came up randomly on the xkcd irc channel
jumbers: I would buy World of Goo via Steam once they announce the Linux client
Sir_Brizz: if you can find someone in the mac beta, you could get an idea of how it works
jumbers: Steam has spoiled me to the point that I don't want to buy games anywhere else
eXlin: yea i would buy that too, unless i buy it before steam client ;)
Sir_Brizz: because the beta has portal included
Gnurdux: i've refused to use Windows for the last 5 years
Wowi: Does anybody know any good irc channel where to whine about opengl/glsl and crappy drivers?
Gnurdux: so i'd experience Valve games for the first time
Sir_Brizz: jumbers, same
jumbers: I like the simplicity of just double clicking it and it installs
jumbers: And not have to juggle discs
Sir_Brizz: yep
jumbers: I have a couple of games that are literally on 8 CDs
Sir_Brizz: I've even rebought numerous games on Steam for that convenience
eXlin: Wowi: how about #windowsfans
eXlin: just joke ;)
Wowi: :p
jumbers: Because they handed me the CD version instead of the DVD version in the store
Sir_Brizz: heh
Sir_Brizz: yeah I have the CD version of UT2004
Sir_Brizz: 6CDs or something
Wowi: again my ubuntu ~crashed when i had infinite loop in the vertex shader and nvidia drivers
Gnurdux: holy shit
Gnurdux: i tried opening the irc log in gedit
Gnurdux: and it used like 700 mb of ram
jumbers: It doesn't like IRC
jumbers: It thinks you're a hacker
eXlin: Sir_Brizz: same, i have also UT2k3. both of them i boutght because of linux support and they just looked best graphics available :P
Ivanovic: anyone still remember baldurs gate?
Ivanovic: 5CDs plus another one for the addon
Sir_Brizz: yeah
jumbers: Everybody needs to watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ
Ivanovic: in days when my harddrive had just 4GB
jumbers: It's a description of IRC :D
jumbers: Also, very topical
jumbers: I remember lolling for about 5 minutes when I first saw it
eXlin: jumbers: lol, irc when hackeres dont want to be overheard :P
Gnurdux: hmm
Gnurdux: so i guess gedit just loads the whole file into memory
Gnurdux: maybe i should try kedit or kate
jumbers: Did you know we all speak leet?
GoldenBuns: So, we all hackers?
eXlin: yeah
GoldenBuns: That's cool
jumbers: Right, hackers that don't want to be overheard, trading illegal drugs in the ocean
eXlin: lol, they goed to server hall to get to irc
eXlin: and used irc from command line :P
jumbers: Surprisingly, a lot of people use irssi
GoldenBuns: We're not allowed to use English.
jumbers: Hey, at least they used port 6667
jumbers: Though, I'm not sure why they would join the channel #channel
Gnurdux: wait so how do you search for a string in vim?
jumbers: Oh, and both of the hackers seem to be ops in the channel too, how nice
Ronis_BR: hi all
eXlin: what, nice p0rn in #channel, dont diss it ;)
jumbers: Greetings
GoldenBuns: Hello
Ronis_BR: did anyone fail to compile mesa these days?
jumbers: Negative
jumbers: Though we're preoccupied with Steam
Gnurdux: so how do i search for a string with Vim?
GoldenBuns: That was some hard 1337speak there in that video
jumbers: Also, if you like the IRC video, this guy trolls it to hell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXW-HnRSrbQ&feature=watch_response
ejackman_: Gnurdux: in command mode type /{what your looking for} then hit enter
Gnurdux: cool
Gnurdux: i found it in the log
jumbers: I found it in the frog
Gnurdux: http://pastebin.com/4EYzBwGJ
Sir_Brizz: maybe they used winelib for a poc
ejackman_: jumbers: talking about the video from numbers on the home page or irssi?
ejackman_: oh hey ther is a link
eXlin: did you notice dopehouse's post http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=125676&postcount=47
eXlin: a little different kind of splash screen. dunno for sure if it's real...
jumbers: Looks real
jumbers: There are a few different screens
jumbers: It looks like it's missing the button outlines but that could be normal
jumbers: eXlin: Also, there's probably no reason to fake that, since it's less interesting than what we've been getting
eXlin: true
jumbers: I'm not sure, but I think it'll be impossible to get the main window to come up until either the webkit browser gets ported or somebody finds a way to disable the checks for it
eXlin: tho webkit is based for khtml if i am correct? maybe there is way to make some kind of khtml-browser libary faked to be webkit
eXlin: just found frozenbytes thrine (http://trine-thegame.com) i hope it gets ported to linux too ;)
Kame: I thought there was already a webkit linux version?
Kame: Isn't that what chrome uses?
jumbers: Yes, but it needs to be in something that Steam like and will use
eXlin: Kame: not sure, but chrome might be mozilla based tho
jumbers: No, it's Webkit.
eXlin: yea, just found that info from wiki
jumbers: I think figuring out what this memory address it keeps trying to call up is, is the key
jumbers: Once it comes up, it hammers one memory address forever
eXlin: and about earlier conversation that wether or not valve would cancel deal with linux client answer is no. Because if they make move they would dominate market for really long time. After you buy game for steam, you don't want to start another steam-look-a-like distribution program to run side-by-side
jumbers: Yeah, that's obvious and I think we debunked that :p
eXlin: yea we did ;)
eXlin: just another reason why moving to linux would be smart move
Azerthoth: wishful thinking is not debunking. logic==fail
eXlin: let's face it. if this is about to scare off valve and game developers, they would be scared off sooner or later (and would be scared off from pc as platform as a whole)
jumbers: It seems clear they did this on purpose.
jumbers: I doubt that initially it was their plan and got scared when they realized people were downloading it
GoldenBuns: Of course. Free puplicity.
GoldenBuns: *Publicity
jumbers: That's the best explanation for why it vanished and then reappeared
GoldenBuns: They took it down, thought it could do no harm, put it back up.
GoldenBuns: And then they arrest the first person who found it.
jumbers: Right. Or they realized that it's a brilliant way to build buzz by leaving it up
jumbers: Wait what? They didn't arrest anybody
eXlin: yea, and i bet they have counted thousands of dowloads
GoldenBuns: All the games news websites will be covering this somewhen
jumbers: Many thousands I'm sure
jumbers: 18,000 views to that article according to michaellarabel
GoldenBuns: If I new how to do anything in Linux (and had it installed right now) I might have tried this
GoldenBuns: Yet all I can do is comment on progress
eXlin: and from those 18k maybe 5k actually do actually download files (rest just check site) and from those 1k actually follow your instructions to get splash-screen?
eXlin: sounds roughtly right?
jumbers: I only have about 450 hits to my mirror of the patch files
eXlin: so 1k who downloads zips and try to run steam.sh?
jumbers: Actually, only 32 downloads on the zip file
eXlin: ok. meaning a lot of ppl aren't ready to see effort but are exited about idea and ready to start using steam on linux ;)
eXlin: well, i use steam on linux over wine but that is not same. and hl2.exe crashes time to time for some odd reason what i haven't bothered to solve
jumbers: These people that claim "it's illegal", "stop Valve will get mad" and "this is bad" are becoming annoying
Gnurdux: valve liks it i think
GoldenBuns: Is it completely legal?
GoldenBuns: Valve liks it?
anders: stop Valve will get mad
anders: this is bad
anders: it's illegal!
jumbers: :)
jumbers: Look at me, I can nerd rage:
jumbers: This stuff ISN'T like the FOSS stuff. You CAN'T go and do these sorts of things without consequence. It's not like hacking the Linux distribution that Asustek put on their motherboards, etc. It's hacking on something that you can't conceivably have a license to and in a manner that there's no way for you to be protected from the legal aspects of your actions in all jurisdictions. More to the point, you're playing with fire- if Valve gets tired of y
jumbers: ou jokers trying to hack up a beta test version so you can "get Steam on Linux", they might just pull the plug on the whole thing.
jumbers: Please. STOP THIS. NOW.
GoldenBuns: So, you're saying everyone should stop doing all this compiling except from you?
jumbers: This guy is fun. Let's see how mad he gets when I tell him that I emailed Dan Berger, the developer of the Linux client
jumbers: And sent him the patches
maligor: technically noone ever even signed an EULA
maligor: so ... what legal consequences?
GoldenBuns: Awesome!
maligor: not that eulas' are even valid here
jumbers: I also told him to pay more attention to case sensitivity
GoldenBuns: :)
maligor: strange things people come up with about legal aspects
jumbers: I replied to Svartalk
jumbers: What if I told you I emailed Dan Berger, the Valve developer of the Linux client, the patches that were made? Would it make you more angry?
jumbers: Spoiler: I already did
maligor: amusing person
jumbers: I'm not sure what his agenda is, but it's comical
GoldenBuns: Who is Svartalk?
jumbers: Some dude on the forum
GoldenBuns: Oh OK
jumbers: Convinced we're gonna destroy Valve or something
GoldenBuns: I came in here kinda late
GoldenBuns: Some people
jumbers: I also have no idea what a Svartalf is
jumbers: Posts: 2,383 HE MUST BE IMPORTANT!
jumbers: rolls eyes
GoldenBuns: There's lots of things around the Internet mentioning someone called svartalf
Megagun: Isn't he from Linux Game Publishing?
jumbers: Yes apparently
maligor: it's actually quite amusing what would happen if downloading a file off a public server would be considered copyright infringement
maligor: no court could possibly uphold that
jumbers: And the other funny thing is how he believes the patches are also illegal
jumbers: Because they're a derivative work, which they're not
maligor: they'd only be illegal if they circumvented copyprotection
jumbers: They'd also be illegal if we were just posting binaries
GoldenBuns: Well, the guy plays D&D, is French and loves alcohol
eXlin: i dont think they are illegal, but he MIGHT be right that some microsoft fanboy game developers feels like lost of control
GoldenBuns: And mythology
maligor: I doubt Valve is a microsoft fanboy setup
Ivanovic: honestly i am not sure if this is legal or not
Ivanovic: the matter being that you do patch some others "intellectual property"
maligor: IP is a BS term
jumbers: GoldenBuns: "Despite his complete lack of game-industry qualifications - unless 20-odd years of pen-and-paper role-playing count - he made his save vs. interview and got invited to join the party." Guess which Valve developer that is.
Ivanovic: and yeah, copyright *does* apply
maligor: Ivanovic, not really
Ivanovic: maligor: it is, but copyright is a law in most places of the world
jumbers: Ivanovic: Compatibility patches are fine.
Ivanovic: jumbers: not sure there at all
Megagun: jumbers: how you know that Dan Berger person is working on the Linux client?
maligor: Ivanovic, copyright has absolutely no relevance to the patches
Ivanovic: jumbers: depends on the local laws i'd say
jumbers: maligor: Read the steam.log
maligor: Ivanovic, except to the extent that someone owns the copyright in it
jumbers: There are cpp errors in there originating from his home folder
maligor: jumbers, I don't have it installed
maligor: As I said, the only law that would have relevance is DMCA/EUCD if they circumvent copyprotection
Ivanovic: ah, there you go (at least partly)
GoldenBuns: Breaking into a server? Illegal. Accessing a public server with no username or password? Legal.
Megagun: i see
Ivanovic: in germany the law is that it is prohibited to work around a "working copyprotection"
jumbers: There is no copy protection being circumvented here
GoldenBuns: Valve's mistake (or intention) is going to cost them (or maybe it won't)
jumbers: Why don't you understand that?
Ivanovic: if you said that explicitly making it not display a window stops you from copying the binary
Ivanovic: (since it is of no use)
Ivanovic: you could state that you break a copy protection
jumbers: No, you can't
maligor: GoldenBuns, why would it cost them?
jumbers: There is no copy protection here
eXlin: Ivanonic: in finland its illegal to work around "strong" copyprotection.
Gnurdux: wait, jumbers how do you know who the Linux developer is?
Ivanovic: jumbers: i am 100% not sure how those "this is a copyprotection" law does apply
jumbers: Gnurdux: There are errors in the steam log with references to his home folder
eXlin: idd, no copy protection placed there
Ivanovic: jumbers: that is at least in germany it was *never* tested in court
maligor: eXlin, didn't know it was worded like that
maligor: eXlin, good thing it's debateable if any copyprotection even can be that
Ivanovic: simply because you could say that a protection that is worked around is not working anyway and thus no "working protection"
maligor: since they're all drm concepts
maligor: which are inheritly broken
jumbers: The only thing that has DRM are the games
jumbers: There are no games
Ivanovic: so eg the movie lobby will of course say that CSS is a working copy protection
maligor: well, steam is the drm mechanism in itself
Gnurdux: jumbers, interesting :O
Gnurdux: and did you actually email him?
jumbers: Yes
Kame: "Spoiler: I already did"
Kame: lol
maligor: Ivanovic, my passwordless server with public network access but no virtual file listing is a working copy protection
Ivanovic: where basically everyone knowing this stuff will say that CSS is a joke and nothing but a joke
jumbers: He has a link to 2 patch files and a recommendation from me to pay more attention to case sensitivity sitting in his mailbox
eXlin: think definion "strong" was left so that linux users could continue watching dvd's
maligor: eXlin, you happen to know what the word is in finnish?-)
Kame: maligor: I think you're confused on what copy protection is
maligor: Kame, no, not really
Ivanovic: maligor: uhm, i don't think that this is a "working copy protection"
eXlin: word for what?
maligor: Ivanovic, really?
maligor: Ivanovic, what about using random strings and cryptography?
Kame: Copy protection, also known as content protection, copy obstruction, copy prevention and copy restriction, is a technology for preventing the reproduction of copyrighted software, movies, music, and other media.
Ivanovic: since you "just" need to know the file names and directly have the stuff
eXlin: well there is no copy protection placed for steam linux client
maligor: Ivanovic, if you give everyone the decryption key?
maligor: Ivanovic, aka DRM
jumbers: Not listing the contents of your directory is not DRM.
Ivanovic: maligor: the drm stuff would involve some specific form of authentification
maligor: Kame, ah.. you referred to me saying steam is the mechanism?
Ivanovic: where in your case the authentification is "user knows address"
maligor: yep
jumbers: Knowing the address to a file is not authentication!
maligor: Ivanovic, how's that different from user knows key?
Kame: Disallowing file listings in your web server isn't copy protection, it's just a good idea
eXlin: address without authentication witch could been quessed quite easily
jumbers: Seriously, you guys don't seem to understand what DRM is
Ivanovic: maligor: the concept is of course identical
jumbers: That's like saying putting a door on your house is locking it
Ivanovic: maligor: though in court your system would most likely not stand as "copy protection"
maligor: jumbers, the two things I mentioned are identical
maligor: guessing the path would be as difficult as cracking encryption
Ivanovic: maligor: where accessing the stuff without being allowed would probably be defined as some "computer crime" anyway
maligor: you could just use delay as the method of slowing down the 'path' cracking
maligor: there's not really any difference imo
Gnurdux: jumbers, i hope you also asked him to confirm a linux client in exchange :D
jumbers: Gnurdux: I honestly can't even expect a reply
jumbers: I'm sure he can't discuss it with me
Ivanovic: there will most likely be no reply to the mail jumbers sent
jumbers: But, I'm going to watch my server logs for a hit from a Valve IP
Ivanovic: since the coder is most likely bound by some NDA not to talk about those company secrets
Ivanovic: secrets like "possible future release plans"
jumbers: I bet you he'll be curious enough to download the patches
maligor: I'm sure Valve has a Security Division that monitors all mails
Gnurdux: true, but it would be cool to ask nonetheless
Ivanovic: jumbers: ever heard about "private internet access"?
eXlin: maligor: not if path is as easy as steam/public/client/steam_client_linux. it woudl be hard to quess if it were store.steampowered.com/internal/alpha/2a1dfa5sa5asdf3a2sd1fasd6f5a4ds3adf1/client/steam_client_linux
jumbers: Ivanovic: He's most likely to open an email on his VALVE email account at work...
maligor: and I never said anything.. or heard anything.. when the Valve Security Division comes around and kidnaps the lot of you
Ivanovic: and i'd guess that he might copy the url to test this stuff in a clean system at home
eXlin: if it's really huge secret at valve they would have clean computers for testing
eXlin: and they wouldnt be allowed to access even from home
jumbers: It can't be a secret if we all have it
eXlin: or take code peaces to home by usb-stick
eXlin: they would maybe even code in offices where windows are darkened like apple encorced ipad devs
jumbers: lolwut.
Kame: They would probably have to work in an old abandoned facility out in a desert somewhere and have no contact with civilization
jumbers: I doubt this is a secret at Valve if it's on a public servfer
eXlin: if they would be worried about linux users to know/hack with that then valve's kind of company has ways to prevent it and still manage alpha/beta testing
jumbers: I bet Valve doesn't know that we got anywhere yet though
ejackman_: well if they really cared wouldn't they just leave it in store.internal.steampowered.com and turn off the automatic build system for the external server at store.steampowered.com
jumbers: Unless they're following the story
jumbers: If they don't Dan will know tomorrow
GoldenBuns: You know, one person in here is a reporter.
jumbers: Hmm?
jumbers: Who?
GoldenBuns: Err...
GoldenBuns: picks random person
jumbers: Reading Svartalf's posts makes me smile
jumbers: It shows me how dumb people on the internet are
jumbers: Aww... Svartalf didn't reply to my post
jumbers: I'm curious, who thinks Valve will officially support and who thinks they'll put it up as an official client, but not supported?
Nevtus: it'll be official or not at all
Nevtus: I think
Nevtus: I wonder why there are all those case sensitivity problems with the filenames. You'd have though Valve would have got used to that while developing the mac version
Nevtus: *thought Valve
Gnurdux: i agree
jumbers: No, apparently OSX is not case sensitive
Gnurdux: either it will be official or it will not be released
jumbers: That's what I was told a while ago
Nevtus: really?
jumbers: Somebody in here said that it is not
eXlin: i think official client but support 2-3 distros officially
Nevtus: aren't all UNIX systems case sensitive?
jumbers: Supposedly, OSX is not by default
jumbers: I'm going off info that I was told here
Nevtus: that's crazy :O
jumbers: Nevtus:
jumbers: The "HFS plus" filesystem, which has been Apple's filesystem of choice since the days of Mac OS 8, is normally not case-sensitive- which means that the filenames hello.txt, Hello.TXT, and HELLO.txt all refer to the same file.
jumbers: Mac OS X version 10.4, or "Tiger" as it's more commonly known, introduced the ability to create an HFS plus filesystem which is case-sensitive (which means that the three names listed above would refer to three different files.)
Nevtus: I see
Nevtus: it's a file system thing then. Obvious really now that I think about it
jumbers: Probably making case insensitive makes it "easier" for users
jumbers: Who knows Apple logic
Nevtus: I think their logic is "make everything dumb" :P
Red_Haze: Anyone get the .res files to load on the steam linux client?
Sir_Brizz: hahaha I was about to say that
jumbers: Red_Haze: Did you use the vgui2_s.so patch?
Red_Haze: I did
Red_Haze: But it spits out errors :(
Red_Haze: When launching it that is
jumbers: How long ago did you grab it? I would say about 8-10 hours ago we updated it
Red_Haze: Hmmm
jumbers: Redownload it
Red_Haze: where can I find that?
jumbers: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/vgui2_s.patch
GoldenBuns: You've been going on this for 10 hours?
jumbers: GoldenBuns: This has been going on longer than that
Red_Haze: I dont think so...
GoldenBuns: I know, but have you been doing this for 10 hours straight?
Red_Haze: Oh yup thats different all right.
jumbers: I've been up since 2AM and it's currently 3PM
Red_Haze: Yeah still gets errors :/
jumbers: The .res file errors?
Red_Haze: No
jumbers: What errors
Red_Haze: it says something about loading fonts
jumbers: That's normal
Red_Haze: Oh ;-;
jumbers: What else
jumbers: What video card do you have
Sir_Brizz: is that why the text doesn't show?
Red_Haze: Memory Map
Red_Haze: nvidia
Red_Haze: yes
jumbers: Hmm, okay.
Red_Haze: Wait a minute
jumbers: You applied the steamui.so patch also, right?
Red_Haze: Yes
jumbers: And no window?
Red_Haze: No window
Red_Haze: But just a question
jumbers: Sure
Red_Haze: What would happen if it did work
jumbers: You would get a splash screen
Red_Haze: Woul the window come up with the text?
Red_Haze: Would*
jumbers: No text
Sir_Brizz: no test
Red_Haze: Oh!
Red_Haze: Ok
Sir_Brizz: no text I meant
Red_Haze: Im on a 64 bit OS
Red_Haze: That might be why :(
jumbers: No, we had people getting it on 64 bit
Red_Haze: What the
Sir_Brizz: yeah
jumbers: Pastebin the output
Sir_Brizz: I'm on 64 bit
Sir_Brizz: works for me
jumbers: You're using bspatch to patch right?
Red_Haze: Yes
jumbers: Okay
jumbers: Pastebin the output
Red_Haze: Ok hold on a second
GoldenBuns: Well, good luck on everything. In the morning, you'll probably have it running great. I have faith in Linux geeks.
Nevtus: doubt it tbh
jumbers: It won't run fully for sure
jumbers: Not everything is there
Red_Haze: http://pastebin.com/T7xj0eTs
Nevtus: I don't think even Valve have got it running properly yet
Sir_Brizz: primarily webkit
GoldenBuns: I know ;)
Sir_Brizz: I really think they've simply been committing patches fromt he OSX version and spending all of their time there
jumbers: Red_Haze: Interesting. Did you see a window spawn and then die?
Red_Haze: yes
Red_Haze: Very quickly
jumbers: Okay, then you're close.
jumbers: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/steamui_failpatch3.patch
Red_Haze: Do the nvidia drivers have to be 32 bit?
jumbers: Try patching steamui.so with that
Red_Haze: :O
Red_Haze: ok
Red_Haze: wait
Red_Haze: DO i patch that freshly
Red_Haze: Or with the already patched one
jumbers: I don't believe you have to, but might as well
Red_Haze: Uh
Red_Haze: So freshly?
jumbers: Remember, if you freshly patch it, you'll have to repatch vgui2_s.so also
jumbers: Sure, just delete steamui.so and vgui2_s.so
Red_Haze: Ok then nevermind :P
Red_Haze: Ok ;-;
jumbers: Delete them, run once, and then patch both
Vecto: Regarding webkit, has anyone tried building libcef?
jumbers: "LIBCEF focuses on specific projects with churches in Liberia"
jumbers: ?
Red_Haze: Ok I patched it
Red_Haze: About to run
jumbers: Now run and cross your fingers
Red_Haze: Still get errora
Red_Haze: Errors*
jumbers: Which error
Red_Haze: The same exact one as before
Red_Haze: In the pastbin
Red_Haze: Paste*
Red_Haze: OH WAIT
Red_Haze: My bad
Red_Haze: Hold a second
Vecto: lol no this libcef, http://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/
Sir_Brizz: ERROR: ld.so: object './linux32/steamui.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
ackondro: libcef = library for chromium embedded framework, and they only have a windows version, valve developed the osx version on their own
jumbers: Red_Haze: What did you do wrong? :p
Red_Haze: Ok
Red_Haze: Oh I didnt use the right patch for the steamclient.so
Red_Haze: Here I go
Red_Haze: Moment of truth
jumbers: ;)
jumbers: It's steamui.so
Red_Haze: WOAHHHHH
Red_Haze: YAY
Red_Haze: It worked
jumbers: :)
Red_Haze: Now what!
jumbers: Now you have a window
Red_Haze: Yay face
jumbers: That's the exciting part
jumbers: You're excited now
jumbers: :)
Red_Haze: What was the problem
Red_Haze: And shouldnt the text load since the .res files loaded?
jumbers: Valve made some mistakes
jumbers: No, that font error is a problem
Red_Haze: Oh!
Red_Haze: just a question
Red_Haze: Probably not true
Red_Haze: But is this the same thing as the one valve used?
Red_Haze: http://code.google.com/p/smallengine/source/browse/trunk/source/graphics/linuxfont.cpp?r=54
jumbers: That's plausible
Red_Haze: Cool
Red_Haze: I helped
jumbers: Is there any way I can pipe the output of strace into a file? When I try DEBUGGER="strace" ./run.sh > debug.log, it only saves the output of the Steam binary
Sir_Brizz: heh I tried the same thing
jumbers: Holy shit, my power supply was under a blanket and is 188 degrees right now
jumbers: The heat protection circuit kicked in and turned itself off
Sir_Brizz: I think you can use strace -o tmp.out
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: Clever!
hestehest: Have you clever guys come up with some new interesting screenshots?? :)
jumbers: Too bad it doesn't show both the program output and the strace output together like the terminal though
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sir_Brizz: hestehest: interesting? no
jumbers: None will be interesting really
hestehest: okay too bad
jumbers: Not until the font issue is solved
hestehest: ive been following with great interest
jumbers: I find this interesting
jumbers: stat64("/home/john/Desktop/steam/steam/package/beta", 0xbf8ef50c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
Sir_Brizz: yeah I saw that
jumbers: As if there may be extra files that the beta testers get
jumbers: I'll try making a folder and see if it looks for anything more
jumbers: Hmm, nope. It just wants to see if there's a folder there. It doesn't look for any files
Red_Haze: Just wondering has anybody ever try to launch steam with the -login command?
jumbers: Yes
jumbers: It authenticates
Red_Haze: :/
Red_Haze: Really?
Red_Haze: Does it actually login in?
jumbers: Yeah, give it -login user pass
jumbers: It succeeds
Red_Haze: through the run.sh am I correct
jumbers: Because if you give it an invalid combination, it complains
Sir_Brizz: yeah we've tried all the steam commands
Red_Haze: Og
Red_Haze: Oh okay :P
jumbers: You get SteamLogin() Success!
jumbers: Not very exciting :p
Sir_Brizz: bah
Red_Haze: What do you see in the window?
Sir_Brizz: was tehre an update? or did I just trigger a redownload?
jumbers: Checking, 1 sec
jumbers: Looks like you triggered it
jumbers: Did you delete or rename a file?
Sir_Brizz: I edited steam.sh
jumbers: You can't do that
Sir_Brizz: okay
Sir_Brizz: hehe
jumbers: You need to copy steam.sh to a new file
Sir_Brizz: trying to get the debugger output somewhere
jumbers: What seems to be the problem
Sir_Brizz: no real problem
Sir_Brizz: just wanted to see it
jumbers: From strace?
jumbers: Or do you mean gdb
Sir_Brizz: strace
jumbers: DEBUGGER="strace -o file.whatever" ./run.sh works
Sir_Brizz: oh
Sir_Brizz: heh
jumbers: YOU suggested it :p
Red_Haze: Can you run the steam client without the console?
Red_Haze: You can right?
jumbers: What do you mean
Sir_Brizz: I know but I was being dumb about setting the environment var
Red_Haze: Well I edited the steam.sh and did something bad because the window keeps coming back and I have no console outputting the windows actions
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: Lemme send you run.sh
Red_Haze: Is that normal?
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/run.sh
jumbers: It keeps coming back?
Red_Haze: Yes
Sir_Brizz: okay cool
Red_Haze: :(
jumbers: On its own?
Red_Haze: yes
jumbers: Uh
jumbers: killall steam
Red_Haze: I did that 23 timwa
Red_Haze: times*
jumbers: ps -A | grep steam
jumbers: kill -9 anything you see
Red_Haze: holy god
Red_Haze: 32766 times
jumbers: 32766 of them??? What?
Red_Haze: steam.sh
Red_Haze: ;-;
jumbers: 32766 of them?
Red_Haze: Yes
jumbers: I have no idea what you did
Red_Haze: Lol
jumbers: I'd suggest just rebooting
Red_Haze: Good idea
Red_Haze: :D
jumbers: Wait
jumbers: No
Red_Haze: ?
jumbers: You're reading it wrong
jumbers: lol.
jumbers: 32766 is the process number
jumbers: kill -9 32766
jumbers: I thought you saw 32766 of them listed :p
Red_Haze: http://pastebin.com/YghF1pii
Red_Haze: Are you sure
jumbers: Holy crap.
jumbers: What the hell did you do? :(
Red_Haze: Well
Red_Haze: I went into the steam.sh
Sir_Brizz: huh
Red_Haze: Then
Red_Haze: Hold on
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: I know, I'm lollin
Sir_Brizz: lol
Sir_Brizz: just keep running it a thousand times
Red_Haze: I turned this
Red_Haze: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
Red_Haze: fi
Red_Haze: into
Sir_Brizz: ERROR: ld.so: object './linux32/steamui.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
Sir_Brizz: is this still normal?
Red_Haze: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=linux32
Red_Haze: LD_PRELOAD=./linux32/steamui.so ./steam.sh
Red_Haze: fi
Red_Haze: Into that
Red_Haze: lol!
Sir_Brizz: Red_Haze: get that run.sh
Red_Haze: I know I was just experimenting
Red_Haze: :P
Sir_Brizz: lol
Red_Haze: brb restarting
jumbers: Sir_Brizz: He epic failed :P
Sir_Brizz: yeah no joke
Sir_Brizz: are you getting that preload error?
jumbers: No.
jumbers: Which one
Sir_Brizz: ERROR: ld.so: object './linux32/steamui.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
Sir_Brizz: when I run run.sh it comes up first
jumbers: Nope. I remember getting that at some point, but now I can't remember what made it go away
Sir_Brizz: hmm
jumbers: Try a fresh folder
Sir_Brizz: open("/home/brizz/Steam/config/DialogConfig.vdf", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
jumbers: I think the only reason it's possible that anybody even found this is the steam_client_linux thing
jumbers: Ooh. Interesting.
jumbers: Wait, do you have a symlink?
jumbers: Because I have the file
Sir_Brizz: eh?
Sir_Brizz: I don't have that file
jumbers: Oh, see you should have symlinks
Sir_Brizz: symlinks?
jumbers: rm -r ~/Steam
Sir_Brizz: I have Steam symlinked to steam
jumbers: O
jumbers: Oh*
jumbers: Then that's correct
jumbers: I have a DialogConfig.vdf
Sir_Brizz: I don't have that file
Sir_Brizz: in /home/brizz/steam/config
Sir_Brizz: did you symlink the steamstore folders too or something?
jumbers: Yes
jumbers: Store.blahblah is symlinked to store.blahblah
jumbers: All the file contains is:
jumbers: "UserConfigData"
jumbers: {
jumbers: }
Sir_Brizz: hmm I don't have that
Sir_Brizz: is it just text?
jumbers: Yes
jumbers: It should create it I believe
jumbers: When I closed the Steam window, it created it
Sir_Brizz: ohh
Sir_Brizz: I can't close the steam window
jumbers: !!!
jumbers: stat64("/home/john/desktop/steam/steam/resource/layout/welcometosteamdialog.layout", 0xbff7c04c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
Sir_Brizz: it probably doesn't handle the KDE window manager well
Sir_Brizz: libtxc_dxtn.so
jumbers: Read that
Sir_Brizz: it tries to load this file forever
jumbers: Install libtxc
jumbers: I'll find the package
jumbers: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/libtxc-dxtn0_0.070518-0.2_i386.deb
Sir_Brizz: meh
Sir_Brizz: need the 64 bit guy
jumbers: :(
jumbers: amd64
jumbers: ?
jumbers: http://debian-multimedia.org/dists/unstable/main/binary-amd64/package/libtxc-dxtn0.php
Sir_Brizz: yeah
jumbers: Er http://debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/libt/libtxc-dxtn/libtxc-dxtn0_0.070518-0.2_amd64.deb
Sir_Brizz: ah thanks
Sir_Brizz: it loads a crapload of font stuff
Sir_Brizz: stat64("/home/brizz/steam/steamapps", 0xff8ca77c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
jumbers: stat64("/home/john/desktop/steam/steam/resource/layout/welcometosteamdialog.layout", 0xbff7c04c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
jumbers: That's the most interesting to me right now
jumbers: It's missing a layout file for the welcome dialog
jumbers: Also, it doesn't seem to be in the Mac version
Sir_Brizz: is it in the osx client?
jumbers: No
Sir_Brizz: ah
jumbers: They have the same public.zip
Sir_Brizz: is that where the layout files are?
jumbers: Yep
jumbers: resource/layout
jumbers: There are a bunch in there, but not welcometosteamdialog
Sir_Brizz: not in windows either
jumbers: The real problem is this damn fonts thing
Sir_Brizz: yeah
jumbers: Sorry, got kicked off somehow
Sir_Brizz: no problem
Sir_Brizz: I just said "yeah"
Sir_Brizz: so with -install 220 I got it to ask for my account credentials and I was able to login
Sir_Brizz: but then it just said SteamLogin() Success
Sir_Brizz: and stopped as usual
Sir_Brizz: where was splash.tga?
jumbers: There is no splash.tga
jumbers: You can make it by copying another file
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sir_Brizz: which file was it
Sir_Brizz: I can't remember
jumbers: steam_splash_fallback.tga
Sir_Brizz: in public?
jumbers: resource
Sir_Brizz: it's weird
Sir_Brizz: the strace shows tons of fonts being loaded properly
jumbers: Right, but there's something else going on with that linuxfont.cpp
Red_Haze: Hey what game is -220?
Red_Haze: Portal?
Sir_Brizz: I think it's Mac portal
Sir_Brizz: :p
Red_Haze: :P
Red_Haze: Let me check
Sir_Brizz: supposedly the mac client lets you install anything from the command line
Sir_Brizz: 220 is HL2
Sir_Brizz: 400 is portal
jumbers: 620 is portal2
Kame: What game you put in doesn't actually matter
jumbers: goes back to tail -f access.log
Sir_Brizz: no the game id doesn't matter because we don't get far enough
Sir_Brizz: once you login nothing else happens
Red_Haze: hmm
jumbers: Well, a lot happen
jumbers: happens*
jumbers: Just nothing useful
jumbers: It keeps hitting 1 memory address until you kill or close it
Sir_Brizz: yeah
jumbers: Spitting output of strings for everything in linux32
jumbers: Holy shit, it's nearly at 1GB
Red_Haze: !
Red_Haze: Oh my
Sir_Brizz: heh
Sir_Brizz: it's funny it keeps trying to hit a specific memory address that it can never get
jumbers: I want to search for references to font
jumbers: Supposedly that error means the address is empty
jumbers: It's over 2GB now.
Red_Haze: Do you think valve did this on purpose?
jumbers: Initially? No.
Kame: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14747385&postcount=603
jumbers: Did they catch on and put the files back up? Yes
Kame: hmmmm
Nevtus: I just seen that too
Nevtus: I am amused that he is clearly running a windows OS with outlook :P
jumbers: They haven't made an announcement, they can't make statements in an email
Red_Haze: Wine?
Nevtus: it doesn't look like wine unless he's got a nice theme installed
Kame: Pffft, they can do whatever they wan't, they valve
Nevtus: why would you use outlook in wine anyway? it's terrible
Kame: But yeah, he claims to have switched over to linux
Kame: sooooo....
Sir_Brizz: could easily be faked
Nevtus: why would someone bother to do that?
Nevtus: eh
Kame: hahahaha
Nevtus: I guess people are dicks on the internet so yeah
jumbers: Wait a second...
Kame: Look at the sent time
Kame: on the emails
jumbers: He emailed Robin Walker
jumbers: Alfred Reynolds replied
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Kame: Er, no wait, I'm dumb, sent times are fine
jumbers: Alfred Reynolds also is supposedly working on the Linux client
Kame: except that's an awful fast response
jumbers: Coincidence? I think not.
jumbers: Robin probably got the email, went "holy crap what do I do" and forwarded it to Alfred
jumbers: "Alfred joined Valve as a software engineer in 2002. Since his arrival, he has contributed to the development of Counter-Strike, Half-Life 2, and Steam. He also does his best to maintain the Linux ports of our games."
jumbers: Um.
jumbers: Linux ports of our games
Nevtus: server stuff
Sir_Brizz: why would you eamil Robin Walker anyway?
jumbers: Because he's in charge of TF2 mostly
Sir_Brizz: he's a bog standard software engineer at Valve
jumbers: He makes all the blog posts for TF2
Sir_Brizz: hmm
jumbers: I think this email just fans the flames
jumbers: Especially because somebody here mentioned that Alfred is also working on this client
Sir_Brizz: the other quesiton, of course, is why wouldn't Robin just say what Alfred said
Nevtus: especially with the outlook usage, this makes it look a bit trollish
Sir_Brizz: indeed
jumbers: Right, why would he have Alfred reply?
jumbers: If they had no plans, Robin could just say it himself
Nevtus: he could have forwarded it to the "linux guy"
Sir_Brizz: exactly
Sir_Brizz: I dunno
Sir_Brizz: that doesn't make a lot of sense
Sir_Brizz: why not gaben?
Seeeege: whats the latest guys
jumbers: We have Portal 2 running
Sir_Brizz: ohsi
Sir_Brizz: ohshi
Seeeege: through the native client?
jumbers: Yes
Seeeege: ohshi
Nevtus: at 400fps. it also works on BeOS
jumbers: It's pretty fun actually
Kame: I installed linux on my Nintendo DS and it runs on that to
jumbers: Chell looks a little more fugly than usual
Sir_Brizz: also BeOS is going to revolutionize the desktop
Seeeege: screenshots?
jumbers: Seeeege: They're at the tubgirl website
Seeeege: lol
jumbers: You're missing out here
jumbers: HOLY SHIT GLADOS JUST ATTACKED ME
Kame: You have to rocket jump over her jumbers
jumbers: But I don't have rockets :(
Nevtus: omg I won the game. GLaDOS is actually a man!!!
jumbers: There are no women on the internet, so it makes sense
Nevtus: well, a man computer
Nevtus: yup, (s)he's a trap :(
jumbers: Call Admiral Ackbar, stat
jumbers: Kame: Replied to that guy
jumbers: I won't believe that's real unless I see headers
Kame: .... since when does Ubuntu have trial software in the repos?
Nevtus: what software is this?
Kame: uex
Nevtus: heh, I text editor that isn't vim or emacs. What's the point? :P
jumbers: Does anybody know what games the Mac has?
eXlin: nano i believe
jumbers: nano :)
Nevtus: a few. World of Warcraft is the most popular one I can think of
Nevtus: it's getting Starcraft 2 too
jumbers: I mean Steam games
eXlin: i have mac mini in next to me so if there is need i can connect it to my display and boot it up.
eXlin: game ;)
Nevtus: Blizzard have always supported Mac OS since the 90s
eXlin: ah, somehow i read text editor
Sir_Brizz: jumbers: it's getting all the Source games
eXlin: brains are dead at this time of night ;)
jumbers: But what is on it currently
Sir_Brizz: right now the client has Portal and TF2
jumbers: Hmm
Sir_Brizz: but they are different game IDs than the ones listed on the wiki
jumbers: I'm wondering if the reply "we have no plans for Linux" could just mean for TF2
Nevtus: I think it has a few bad EA ports too
Nevtus: if Steam was coming so would TF2
jumbers: But it's more likely to just be a lie
Nevtus: "at this time" doesn't mean never, just not at the time he sent the email
jumbers: Like I said before, they're not going to give somebody that emails them, a scoop
Sir_Brizz: it's true
Nevtus: it's a bit weird that Valve won't comment to Phoronix but would to a random email
Sir_Brizz: yeah, everything about that screenshot is odd
jumbers: If you email a company when they're planning to release something it, they're just gonna deny it
Nevtus: it screams dirty troll
jumbers: That's why I called BS on it
jumbers: Need headers
eXlin: according to tuaw.com mac steam would get l4d 2, tf2, cs, portal and half life series
Sir_Brizz: alfred responding, especially the date of the email (why would valve respond on release day?), etc
Nevtus: they're not getting the original l4d?
Sir_Brizz: afaik they are
eXlin: apparently no
Kame: Didn't the original news post say they were getting everythign?
eXlin: attleast not listed in tuaw...
Kame: everything*
Nevtus: by cs does that mean Source or 1.6?
Sir_Brizz: yeah
Sir_Brizz: on the l4d blog they said both are
Nevtus: I'd imagine it would be the complete Valve library
eXlin: think valve originally said they would make mac as t1 platform releasing all of their games same time as windows ones
jumbers: Not to get offtopic, but has anybody played this week's L4D2 mutation?
Sir_Brizz: http://www.l4d.com/blog/post.php?id=3570
Sir_Brizz: jumbers: no, the game is already hard enough
Megagun: jumbers: yes, it's meh.
jumbers: Campaign is not that hard
Sir_Brizz: on Expert it is
eXlin: just wonder who mutch hit crossover for mac got hit because valve is releasing steam and games for mac.
eXlin: sry double hit and hit = damage
Sir_Brizz: i dunno
eXlin: and would sdame kind of things happend for cedega example if steam games comes for linux
eXlin: i believe valve games are most played ones on linux platform
Sir_Brizz: crossover and competitors are really just workarounds, not solutions
jumbers: Steam runs pretty crappy under wine
eXlin: yes, but solution what brings them money
eXlin: yea, i have noticed that
jumbers: Crossover and cedega are just wine with fancy wrappers
eXlin: tho i have windows only on laptop, witch is not very reliabale for gaming.
eXlin: i know that too
eXlin: dunno how often cedega imports codebase from wine, but attleast it were pretty mutch excact copy of wine
jumbers: kernel panics
Aondo: Nevtus good question, hope 1.6 :D
sado1: no wai imo, if they said about source games
sado1: but 1.6 engine got opengl renderer since long time (if not the beginning)
jumbers: Sounds like not the goldsrc engine
sado1: in fact it was quake-based afair
jumbers: Yes, goldsrc is quake engine modified
jumbers: Heavily modified
sado1: so if they would want to port it - wouldn't be much trouble probably
jumbers: They probably don't care about goldsrc anymore
sado1: and speaking of cedega and crossover future I think they won't have troubles if linux/mac would have more games
sado1: yeah probably
sado1: Transgaming (cedega's company) is also porting games to mac
sado1: thats how these EA games got ported
sado1: but it's just cedega kinda built into the game
Nevtus: source is based on goldsrc, which was based on the quake (id tech 2) engine
sado1: so if demand for mac games would increase, they would just have more work
jumbers: Source is not based on goldsrc. It's a complete rewrite
Flyser: sado1: opengl is the native renderer of 1.6
Flyser: sado1: d3d support was added later.
sado1: ah so even better
Nevtus: not according to what I've read. goldsrc was the frozen codebase at the time of the orignal Half Life launch (hence Gold Source), while Source is their continuing work on the engine
sado1: still, don't see why they should care
Nevtus: though Source now has lots of different versions
jumbers: "Source distantly originates from the GoldSrc engine"
Sir_Brizz: those EA ports were horrendous, saod
Sir_Brizz: sado1
jumbers: Half-Life: Source is such a joke
Sir_Brizz: lol
jumbers: "enhanced via SOurce technology to include physics simulation, enhanced effects, and more"
jumbers: There's more? Are you sure?
monreal: nice water :)
eXlin: we'll i am off. GN, cya later ;)
outer: disconnect
jumbers: Does anybody know if that reply from Alfred was before or after the stories about Steam for Linux started coming out?
Sir_Brizz: it was a few days after
jumbers: Which was a few days after
jumbers: The story?
Sir_Brizz: the email
jumbers: Hmm
jumbers: But before people discovered the binaries, right?
jumbers: I notice a lot of people type jumbers instead of jumpers
jumbers: Is it because b is a flipped p?
jumbers: They're nowhere near each other on the keyboard
Sir_Brizz: jumpers?
anders: what answer by alrfred, jumbers? can you help me find it
anders: i'm curious
LordHavoc: anyway, interesting fact
LordHavoc: Nexuiz is getting a dx renderer
LordHavoc: I fully expect dx9 to suck but be useful to Intel graphics users, dx10 to perform a bit better than OpenGL but not have anything specially interesting about it
LordHavoc: the impetus for it is definitely the xbox360 port
LordHavoc: but the reasons for a dx9 renderer are purely personal - letting Intel graphics users suffer a little less, letting me use my NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses, and letting me use DX debuggers
LordHavoc: I expect people to keep using the OpenGL renderer in most cases
LordHavoc: the DX renderers won't get any special love
jumbers: I'm wondering if there's anything we can do to fix the font problem or if only Valve can
Kame: We could steal the source code
jumbers: :|
jumbers: People already think we're being malicious
jumbers: Welcome back espes
jrgp: how can I get the vallina linux steam from the latest zips kinda working? what I have no just dies with "failed loading steamui.so" and then casynciomanager messages
jrgp: have now*
jumbers: You need to run it with LD_PRELOAD
jumbers: Try this: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/steam.zip
jrgp: doing ./run.sh still dies with the "[ 0%] !!! Fatal Error: Failed to determine download location for universe 0" message
jrgp: hmm "ERROR: ld.so: object './linux32/steamui.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored."
jumbers: You need to create a steam.cfg with the proper parameters
jumbers: Universe = store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux
espes: jumbers: You should add that to the script
espes: jumbers: Also, the vgui patch
jumbers: I didn't make the script :p Somebody rewrote it to be a lot simpler, but I wasn't told that I could publish it
jrgp: I'm running the asd.sh now.
jrgp: looks like it patches the file and sets up the cfg?
jumbers: Right
jrgp: I'm on 64 bit. will that break anything?
espes: jrgp: Shouldn't
jumbers: What graphics card do you have
jrgp: geforce 9400gt with 512MB. dual 1280x1024 monitors
jrgp: I would assume that's fine
jumbers: Well, it's not that it's demanding, it's a drivers thing
jumbers: But you're on nvidia so you're fine
jrgp: hmm so I have a GUI up. not doing anything though, although the CLI is ssearching for better mirrors still
jrgp: so we have yet to get past a gray splash screen?
espes: jrgp: It logs in, but doesn't do anything
jumbers: Yeah, you can pass it -login user pass and it logs in
jumbers: Also passing it -install 220 gives you an install screen with buttons that do things
jumbers: It would be more exciting if somebody found a way to get the text working
jumbers: But again, I think that may be out of our hands
jumbers: I think we'll have to wait and see what happens on Monday
jumbers: Maybe Valve will have fixed the font problem
jrgp: yeah I'm getting blank buttons with -install 220
jumbers: The middle one goes to the EULA
jumbers: From left to right, they're Back, Next, and Cancel
jrgp: nothing seems to happen when I click them
jumbers: Interesting. Try Tab
jumbers: And then hit enter
jrgp: with tab I can switch between the 2nd and 3rd but it doesn't get to the first. and when I hit enter on the second it segfaults "./steam.sh: line 63: 3739 Segmentation fault ${DEBUGGER} "${STEAMROOT}"/${PLATFORM}/${STEAMEXE} $@" and nothing happens when I hit enter on the 3rd
jrgp: and when I pass it -login with my creds it just segfaults like that without bringing up a gui
jumbers: I wonder if failpatch3 would help
jumbers: http://www.jnumbers.com/mirror/steamui_failpatch3.patch
jrgp: patching steamui.so with that makes it just die with "FATAL: exception not rethrown"
jrgp: or should I be patching an original steamui.so instead of the one asd.sh creates?
Seeeege: oh god guys
jumbers: I always patch it fresh
jumbers: Seeeege: Yes?
SageX: just keep on going
jumbers: We've basically hit the limits of what's there
SageX: oh
SageX: well there should be new stuff there tomorrow?
jumbers: You can't debug a program that doesn't do anything. Once you log in, it doesn't try to do anything more really
jrgp: ok with that latest patch I get a big black blank text field.
jumbers: When you click on the middle button?
jrgp: well, select it with tab and press enter
jumbers: Right
jumbers: SageX: Well, if Dan is doing his job I would think maybe
SageX: oh
jumbers: Hopefully he integrates the patches I sent him
SageX: lol
jumbers: I sent him steamui.patch and vgui2_s.patch
jumbers: And told him to pay attention to case sensitivity more
jrgp: I don't think he'd patch generated binaries when he has the direct source to work with lol
SageX: lol
jumbers: Well he's obviously doing it wrong, so
SageX: imagine the pressure that guy is under with all these people knowing what he is working on
jrgp: he's probably either ambivalent or trying his hardest to ignore us
SageX: hmm
jumbers: I'm sure Valve knows about the downloading already
jumbers: What I don't think they know until Monday is that we have the stuff partially working
jumbers: But Dan will know for sure when he opens his email :p
jrgp: so dan is some valve linux dev?
SageX: yes
jumbers: "Despite his complete lack of game-industry qualifications - unless 20-odd years of pen-and-paper role-playing count - he made his save vs. interview and got invited to join the party."
jumbers: Evaluate for yourself
jrgp: where is that from?
jumbers: http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/people.html
SageX: I would laugh if we finish his project before he does
jumbers: There's not enough to go on
jumbers: It's possible that after the next update that we could make it go further than it will get, but it's kinda stuck where it is right now
jumbers: This linuxfont.cpp thing is essentially a showstopper
jrgp: how do we know dan works on the linux client?
jumbers: This steam.log line
jumbers: DebugAssert, Name: ?, Line: 3441, Expr: "Create semaphore failed in CreateSemaphoreInternal" && !pchErr, File: /home/VALVE/dberger/P4Clients/steam2_main/Projects/GazelleProto/Client/Engine/../../../Common/Misc/PosixWin32.cpp
jumbers: Plus that bio on the Valve page screams "Linux guy"
jumbers: It's also believe that he works with Alfred Reynolds
jumbers: believed*
jumbers: I was kinda disappointed when Svartalf didn't nerd rage at me about emailing Dan
jrgp: what was the contents of your email?
jumbers: I didn't save the contents, but I explained what the 2 patches did and told him to be more mindful of case sensitivity
jumbers: And then linked to the 2 patches on my server
jrgp: oh, right the thing with ~/Steam and ~/steam and having to just use a symlink so they point to the same folder?
jumbers: Right
jumbers: Also various files are a problem
jumbers: vgui2_s.patch patches a problem with the .res files
jrgp: so your patches make attempts to fix that, as well as other things?
jrgp: ha
jrgp: ah*
jumbers: First, just to make it clear, the patches aren't mine. mastertheknife and espes did all the work
jumbers: I don't want anybody crediting me for anything except hosting them
jrgp: right
jumbers: :)
jumbers: Anyway, yeah, the patches fix bugs in the binaries
jumbers: That in itself isn't a simple task either
jrgp: yeah well someone has to do it sense valve seems relatively inept
jumbers: Well, the files are coming from an autobuild server
jumbers: They commit code and it just builds a package
jumbers: They're not manually building these packages that fail
jrgp: when exactly was the steam_client_linux file brought back online?
jumbers: I have no idea, I wasn't here at that point
preludelinux: they did remove the files for like a week then they came back