Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-11-17
peppo: it's pretty sad when resume from suspend is slower than a shutdown-reboot
peppo: (ati radeon hd 3470 on sony vaio laptop and jaunty 9.10)
bkero: suspend-to-disk is pretty stupid
bkero: Just suspend-to-RAM. Should work instantly.
copper: "AnandTech Tests GPU Accelerated Flash 10.1 Prerelease" http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3678
copper: Adobe: "In Flash Player 10.1, H.264 hardware acceleration is not supported under Linux and Mac OS. Linux currently lacks a developed standard API that supports H.264 hardware video decoding, and Mac OS X does not expose access to the required APIs. We will continue to evaluate adding the feature to Linux and Mac OS in future releases."
copper: also http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2009/11/flash_player_101_beta.html
bkero: No 64-bit linux client
bkero: Assholes :(
copper: what else is new
copper: it's weird about the lack of h.264 acceleration on linux though - Adobe's been working with Nvidia on that realease, what about VDPAU?
vadi2: adobe air 2.0 beta out: http://blogs.adobe.com/air/2009/11/adobe_air_2_beta_now_available.html this time they got a .deb installer too. but linux 64bit version is delayed, they want to include the 'stable' 64bit flash player in it so they're waiting on the flash team.
michaellarabel: Is the DarkPlaces/Nexuiz developer in here?
mrtymek: Hello! Can phoronix test suite test out cpu stress and cooling capabilities? I think there is something wrong with my laptop...
michaellarabel: mrtymek: phoronix-test-suite benchmark stresscpu2 or phoronix-test-suite batch-benchmark npb or a number of other ways
LordHavoc: michaellarabel: I am
Fujk: is there a list of supported dual monitor cards that work with compiz somewhere?
LordHavoc: Fujk: I don't know if there is a formal list, but I do know that any NVIDIA GF6 or above card, or ATI Radeon HD card, works well, I don't know about others
LordHavoc: Fujk: actually, make that GF8 or above - I haven't used a GF6 in quite some time and don't know the state of the drivers
Fujk: LordHavoc: I'm thinking about a GTX 275 right now, bad move?
LordHavoc: I tried a NVIDIA GTX260 recently before buying this Radeon HD 5870, so I can express an opinion there
Fujk: LordHavoc: you actually got 5870? can you comment on dual monitor setup with compiz? I'm really on the fence here if I want to get 5870 or gtx 275 just to make sure things work..
Fujk: I haven't found anyone that can confirm 100%
LordHavoc: the GTX260 has better OpenGL driver stability and lower driver overhead (which matters for gaming at lower resolutions), the 5870 surpasses the 260 significantly in fillrate/shader power but falls behind in "crazy" fps potential (lower max fps, and lower min fps, but higher average, at least at higher resolutions)
LordHavoc: I've been using dual monitor since 2005 or so
LordHavoc: http://ghdigital.com/~havoc/desk.jpg - my setup
Fujk: compiz too?
LordHavoc: I want to put the left 30" monitor on Eyefinity but the ATI drivers don't do Eyefinity yet
LordHavoc: so atm that's hooked up to another computer
LordHavoc: I do not currently use compiz, running metacity at the moment
LordHavoc: I've used compiz at times but it has never behaved very well on OpenSUSE
Fujk: I use ubuntu...
Fujk: would you recommend 5870 then?
LordHavoc: my test machine has Ubuntu, but I do not have two monitors hooked up to it for testing
LordHavoc: I must say that Ubuntu favors ATI
LordHavoc: because xrandr still isn't supported on NVIDIA
LordHavoc: so it has NO way to configure the desktop
LordHavoc: and forgets my resolution every time I logout
LordHavoc: OpenSUSE favors ATI too at the moment, same reason
LordHavoc: but OpenSUSE still supports xorg.conf so it wasn't too hard to solve that on NVIDIA
LordHavoc: what is your usage?
LordHavoc: my dad runs 3 30" monitors on his Radeon HD 5770 in Windows for CAD purposes, nice performance there, but haven't compared on Linux
Fujk: I'm a webdeveloper so I like the dual/three monitor setups, I actually do most gaming in Windows unless there is a linux edition.
LordHavoc: I like relatively low power usage, which is why I recommended the 5770 to him (plus the 5870 was out of stock EVERYWHERE, seems I had gotten one of the only ones in the first wave)
Fujk: I just dont want to waste money on 5870 and not get at least a dual monitor setup that isn't broken
LordHavoc: I do programming, and use jedit, IRC, terminal, firefox
LordHavoc: so I think I'm in a similar situation
LordHavoc: screen real estate has amazing productivity benefits
LordHavoc: it's the reason I've been running multiple monitors so long
LordHavoc: my general advice is: NVIDIA and ATI both work fine, ATI has more stability problems (but they're not terrible of late)
LordHavoc: ATI is easier to set up
LordHavoc: power / performance ratio favors ATI Radeon HD 5000 series, simply due to the die shrink compared to NVIDIA
LordHavoc: when NVIDIA GTX 300 series is out it may shift back (depends if they make any midrange cards that don't require tons of power)
Fujk: I see. I'm just afraid if the composition will be an issue.
LordHavoc: I've used compiz on NVIDIA, just not recently
LordHavoc: I can fire it up on here right now and "see what happens"
Fujk: I'd appreciate that, so I can order my new box ;)
LordHavoc: I just used to run out of vram regularly on NVIDIA on OpenSUSE, then some windows would go black, and the system might lockup
Fujk: It's been like 3 days of research
LordHavoc: which is why I kind of shifted away from compiz
Fujk: which drivers did you use?
LordHavoc: but the way distros are favoring compiz lately makes me think that isn't the case for everyone
LordHavoc: back then? NVIDIA 90.xx series or so
Fujk: for the 5870
LordHavoc: I was running beryl way back
LordHavoc: oh, yes, ATI Catalyst 9.10 drivers, non-beta
LordHavoc: I have a feeling the performance will pick up in the next drivers
LordHavoc: 9.10 seemed to be more of a support release
Fujk: do you do big desktop or separate desktops?
LordHavoc: big desktop
LordHavoc: I don't use virtual desktops
LordHavoc: I just minimize/restore windows on a regular basis
LordHavoc: also the reason I don't use one of those tabbed window managers - I prefer stacking windows loosely
LordHavoc: that's all personal taste though
Fujk: do you play games on linux?
LordHavoc: I'm co-designer/original programmer of Nexuiz
LordHavoc: and do game porting (freelance)
LordHavoc: I'm perfectly happy playing Quake (1996) or Nexuiz (still improving), so I haven't had a big problem with shortage of games
LordHavoc: I have a separate windows machine if I want to play much else
LordHavoc: I occasionally try wine, which has become fairly usable of late, but still has input issues
LordHavoc: I use Synergy so I don't have a big problem with having multiple computers running
Fujk: well, I would be dual booting, which might be okay even if it sucks to reboot
Fujk: so I'm not too worried about 3d performance
Fujk: in linux
LordHavoc: I have a Mac Mini (OSX10.6), a Windows/Ubuntu machine (Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Ubuntu 9.10 x86 - not that fond of this new version), OpenSUSE 11.1 x86_64 (intending to upgrade to 11.2 sometime soon but it imposes some downtime)
LordHavoc: I only run the Windows machine some of the time, the Mac Mini just sits there all the time (running but not used for much)
Fujk: Well it's time for me to upgrade, 2004 was the last time and it's hard to play games
LordHavoc: I replaced that 22" on the mount arm with an LD 23" 1920x1080 HDTV which I'm very pleased with (tons of inputs - all my consoles hooked up to it, and the Mac Mini)
LordHavoc: (still two inputs left)
Fujk: yeah 3x is sweet
LordHavoc: I want 7680x1600 :(
LordHavoc: 5120x1600 with a black monitor on the left is just... not even slightly the same
LordHavoc: one note on Linux multi-monitor: on ATI, fullscreen games tend to set the other monitors to clone mode for no good reason, and it doesn't restore on exit from them, so I end up having to issue an xrandr command in a terminal to set the position again
LordHavoc: xrandr --output DFP4 --pos 2560x0
LordHavoc: is how I restore my right monitor
LordHavoc: on NVIDIA, it doesn't use xrandr, and the TwinView treats both as one display, so fullscreen games turn off one monitor entirely
Fujk: I see
LordHavoc: just different approaches
LordHavoc: just take care of the xrandr settings
Fujk: what if you have 3 monitors, which display picture?
LordHavoc: only real annoyance at the moment
LordHavoc: left most seems to be cloned onto the others
Fujk: you obviously want the centered one
LordHavoc: if using a multi-monitor fullscreen mode it's no problem though
LordHavoc: if you ever consider 3D monitors, be aware that multiple video cards are needed, OR a Radeon HD 5000 series card with a DisplayPort compatible monitor for one
LordHavoc: if you ever consider 3 monitors, be aware that multiple video cards are needed, OR a Radeon HD 5000 series card with a DisplayPort compatible monitor for one
LordHavoc: DisplayPort monitors are still extremely rare
LordHavoc: so I bought the Dell "BizLink" DisplayPort to DVI-D adapter ($100 US)
Fujk: thats why I need to settle for 5870 or gtx 275 and upgrade to whatever nvidia cooks up in 2010
LordHavoc: which actually works perfectly, too bad no eyefinity yet
LordHavoc: any unpowered DisplayPort to DVI adapter will not work, period
LordHavoc: and the Apple one has low voltage and monitors often refuse to use it
LordHavoc: if 3D performance isn't an issue, just get a 5750?
LordHavoc: they're quite cheap
LordHavoc: and use slightly under 100w supposedly
Fujk: 3d performance is an issue in windows gaming
Fujk: so I want a REAL good card
LordHavoc: understood :)
LordHavoc: I don't dual-boot, too much hassle
Fujk: I just need to know if composite will be a major issue
LordHavoc: that's what I don't know either
LordHavoc: like I said, I can activate it right now but I have no idea what will happen :)
Fujk: on the 3 monitor setup?
Fujk: try :P
LordHavoc: 3 doesn't work on Linux yet like I said
Fujk: oh yeah
Fujk: did it kill you?
LordHavoc: no, but it kind of refuses to start
LordHavoc: compiz --replace just sits there
LordHavoc: and metacity restarts itself
Fujk: you running gnome?
Fujk: I havent tried anything else but compiz
LordHavoc: I'm running the yast meta package for compiz fusion, we'll see if it fixes it
LordHavoc: (yast is the setup tool on SUSE)
Fujk: can you get transparent terms in metacity?
Fujk: looks like it's on its way though
LordHavoc: I'm sure a lot of things like that would work in OpenSUSE 11.2, which came out two days ago, I just haven't upgraded yet
Fujk: not working as easy as hoped huh? I wonder if the gtx 275 can do it, might be just as bad :P
Fujk: I gotta sleep. If you manage to get it to work be sure to report! Thanks for help. I'll sleep over it.
LordHavoc: nah this is all just trouble with installation
LordHavoc: I'm restarting X right now
LordHavoc: I'll give you an answer in about 2 minutes
LordHavoc: now if I can just find the Enable for desktop effects...
Fujk: I think you need to install the compiz-settings-manager
LordHavoc: I have it open
LordHavoc: I'm just trying to figure out WHERE in there :)
Fujk: I only know ubuntu, System -> Preferences -> Appearance, clicking on the Visual Effects tab and choosing the Extra option.
Fujk: or the custom option
LordHavoc: still no luck finding how to get anything to activate in there
LordHavoc: it's running metacity, not compiz
LordHavoc: but iirc enabling compiz causes it to switch
LordHavoc: just can't figure out how to enable it
Fujk: "Applications – Configure Desktop – Desktop, tick the box for “Enable Desktop Effects”"
LordHavoc: there we go
LordHavoc: brought up Control Center
LordHavoc: and went to Desktop Effects in there
LordHavoc: still not seeing any effects though
Fujk: are they enabled in the ccsm?
LordHavoc: hmm, Desktop Effects keeps turning itself off
LordHavoc: after restarting the window manager at least once, maybe twice
Fujk: maybe you need to make it permanent to stay on
Fujk: after restart that is
LordHavoc: running rcxdm from a terminal inside x = bad idea
LordHavoc: still no luck activating desktop effects either
LordHavoc: clearly something is upset
Fujk: I suspected that
LordHavoc: but I can't figure out where/what is upset
Fujk: can it be the FGLRX?
LordHavoc: seems that compiz-manager needed an upgrade
LordHavoc: logging out again, brb
LordHavoc: still no luck
LordHavoc: brb, trying an xorg.conf option
LordHavoc: setting still won't stick
LordHavoc: this is why I didn't bother trying to get it working on SUSE :P
Fujk: I'm not sure there would be better luck with ubuntu..
Fujk: well, gotta sleep. thanks for trying. I haven't found any forum posts yet with anyone running it. I guess not enough people have gotten their cards yet.
LordHavoc: got it working
LordHavoc: I had a ~/bin/compiz which was messing up
LordHavoc: got rid of that and now it starts
Fujk: you can do the cube thing etc?
LordHavoc: I actually have it in sphere mode currently :P
LordHavoc: I enabled tons of stuff to test it, and now it all actually works, so it looks crazy
Fujk: so it doesn't flicker etc
Fujk: moving windows
LordHavoc: no flicker
LordHavoc: wobbly windows is always entertaining
Fujk: yep hehe
Fujk: what res you on?
Fujk: and it's not slow?
LordHavoc: I'm getting a delay on maximizing/unmaximizing a window
LordHavoc: so I probably have more configuration to do
Fujk: whats the verdict out of 10 tuxes?
LordHavoc: http://en.opensuse.org/Nvidia_Black_Window_Bug_Fix - hah, a documented workaround for that bug
LordHavoc: (the one that used to bother me)
LordHavoc: well, too early to say
LordHavoc: but it behaves like Ubuntu does out of the box on nvidia
LordHavoc: so I assume I have it working
Fujk: ok nice
Fujk: you think it's worth getting or wait for nvidias new card?
LordHavoc: I just need to figure out why the maximize is lagging
LordHavoc: no opinion
Fujk: if dual/compiz works in linux however I see no reason to wait
LordHavoc: I'm quite happy with my Radeon HD 5870, despite the configuration differences
LordHavoc: only nvidia problem I ran into is that Ubunut has no idea how to configure it, and nvidia-settings has no idea how to deal with a distro that does not use xorg.conf
LordHavoc: err Ubuntu
LordHavoc: which is mostly peculiar to 9.10
LordHavoc: seems a lot of people went back to Ubuntu 9.04 or 8.10
Fujk: I see
Fujk: do you run virtualization?
Fujk: does it have any effect on WM?
LordHavoc: I do not run virtualization, I don't know how to set it up and haven't had any real reason to do so
Fujk: ok, shouldnt be an issue I suppose
LordHavoc: seems to have a solution to the nvidia-settings issue
Fujk: I want to get Quake Wars: Enemy Territory running on linux :P
Fujk: Never had the chance to play it, and it seems to be native
LordHavoc: heh, I have that installed I think
LordHavoc: I was in the open betas, and bought it immediately on release
LordHavoc: unfortunately the open betas were more fun than the actual game
LordHavoc: higher player count servers
Fujk: ah, I only played ET a lot
LordHavoc: (12v12, vs 8v8)
LordHavoc: ETQW does not play right at all with less than 10v10
LordHavoc: not enough of each class
Fujk: gametracker.com lists servers with 24
LordHavoc: yeah, menu doesn't let you set it above 16, but dedicated servers can do 24
LordHavoc: thing is, even the singleplayer plays wrong :P
LordHavoc: need 2 of every class, otherwise you get situations with overwhelmed solo players trying to maintain some aspect of the team offensive
LordHavoc: then an extra engineer and an extra medic
LordHavoc: though the optimal varies depending on the current objective
LordHavoc: well, I don't need to tell you this, if you played ET you have an idea :)
Fujk: you get the linux client when buying the game?
LordHavoc: though it's a separate download
LordHavoc: shipping on the disc is long gone these days :(
Fujk: it's really cheap too
LordHavoc: you can also buy it on Steam and use the paks from that
LordHavoc: (and the cdkey)
LordHavoc: the Linux installer doesn't use the DVD at all
LordHavoc: it just instructs you to copy the paks into the installation
Fujk: I see
Fujk: ok well, if you can get 5870 to run normally I am probably going for it
Fujk: if it works in suse it should be no issues in ubuntu... hopefully
LordHavoc: 5870 is nice on Windows for gaming
LordHavoc: on Linux it just needs to work properly in 99% of cases
Fujk: and do the xfire in like a year
LordHavoc: main problem for 5870 is last I checked they're sold out practically everywhere :P
Fujk: Yeah I know
Fujk: I can wait, I just need to order before new years
Fujk: well, thanks again. now I REALLY have to sleep, laters
LordHavoc: good night Fujk