Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-11-05
Deanjo: michaellarabel: spam bot http://www.phoronix.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1524593
michaellarabel: what username? Link doesn't work
Deanjo: Pretty easy to tell by it's posting
Deanjo: 2 cores vs 4 cores in Linux
Deanjo: Saint John, and Hamilton all have large relatively intact historical cores, but these cities are all under 1 million.
Deanjo: Gears of War and Unreal developer Epic Games today released its Unreal Engine 3 dev tools as a free download, aimed at providing noncommercial and educational use of the technology that powers many PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 games.
Deanjo: Alongside the tools, Epic released more than two-hundred pages of documentation via the Unreal Developer Network, launched dedicated forums, and offered up licensing details for those seeking to use the technology in a commercial application.
Deanjo: Now where it the fucking linux port you bastards
maligor: who cares about gear
maligor: err.. gears
Deanjo: The news was the Dev tools, not Gears
maligor: yeah, the UE 3.0 tools are made using WX
maligor: but since there's no engine port, what good would it do?
Deanjo: Thus my statement earlier
maligor: also using wx makes you wonder how many developers they destroyed using that
Deanjo: " Now where it the fucking linux port you bastards"
Deanjo: Well that could be a matter of prefence too by their devs. What it painful for some is a comfort zone for others
maligor: what? wx?
maligor: have you ever used wx?
maligor: it's actually counterproductive
Deanjo: Same has been said about items like C, C++, KDE, Gnome, Assembly, etc etc
Deanjo: There is no "one size fits all" solution for everybody
maligor: so you haven't used wx
Deanjo: A devel with years of wx experience may find developing with other solutions painful and slow because of their unfamilarity with them and lack of experience
maligor: a devel with years of wx experience would cry with joy if he even saw Gtk
Deanjo: I personally haven't touched wx for years, I've been a QT guy for quite some time
maligor: yeah, Qt's sweet to use
maligor: even if it is rather on the massive side
Deanjo: Ease of development and portability is more my concern
Deanjo: I pay little attention to framework overhead debates as really in this day and age that bit extra makes virtually no diffence in the end experience
maligor: I meant binary sizes tho
maligor: 17M libQtWebKit.so.4.5.3
Deanjo: even that is piddly with the systems that are out nowdays
maligor: QtCore is 2.3MB
Deanjo: Seems kind of silly bitching about a couple of megs when you pretty much can't even find a harddrive less then 250 GB nowdays
maligor: yeah, true
maligor: I think it's mostly just a issue if you make a windows binary
maligor: assuming you aren't Adobe
Deanjo: Just the perpetual "OMG but it's a bloated!" and then it turns out to be a diffence of a few megs
maligor: yeah, just that for a smaller application the size of Qt is immense
Deanjo: Was just reading a tread how FF 7 Meg installer was "bloated" compared to operas 6 meg installer.
maligor: can't say I care much for either
maligor: chromium 4 is just so much faster
redeeman: Deanjo: in case you haven't noticed, one megabyte of code is fucking alot
Deanjo: That's when you know they are arguing just for the sake of arguing and just trying to come up with any exuse to bitch
maligor: redeeman, I think opera uses Qt
maligor: redeeman, and both ship with large amounts of graphics and other crud
maligor: it's just that if you assume Qt takes 4-6Mb of a windows program archive, and the program itself is around 200kb, it's massive
Hedgehog: hello there
Hedgehog: nice to be in the Phoronix irc channel! :)
Hedgehog: Well, since I suppose you're all very advanced Linux users, I want to ask a question
Hedgehog: Is it possible to have a tear-free desktop on Linux with the Nvidia drivers?
Hedgehog: I already have tear-free openGL apps
Deanjo: enable vsync
Hedgehog: yes, I did so, in the nvidia-settings pannel; both options, openGL and xv
Hedgehog: and I don't use composition
Hedgehog: no xcommngr process
Hedgehog: and I put the typican section in devices to disable it just in case
Deanjo: Then you shouldn't have any tearing
Hedgehog: I'm using the 180.60 drivers
Hedgehog: and my xorg-server is 1.6.3
Hedgehog: I believe it should be sufficient
Hedgehog: but every desktop window tears as hell
Deanjo: Dump the 180 drivers and use the 190.42 drivers
Hedgehog: sure they'll make a difference for tearing?
Deanjo: All I can say not one of my systems has any tearing issues with them composite enabled or not
Deanjo: If you post your xorg.conf to pastebin I could take a quick look to see if anything jumps out
Hedgehog: hello again
Hedgehog: Deanjo, I'll try your suggestion
Hedgehog: but..do you think it'll make a difference for tearing?
Deanjo: It may, but you may have some known "trouble maker" configuration in your xorg
Hedgehog: I'll have to unmask (I'm a gentoo man), maybe even recompile kernel, etc...
Hedgehog: what's that "extmod" for?
Hedgehog: I mean in the modules section
Hedgehog: it's the only setting I don't know about
Hedgehog: should I pastebin my xorg.conf?
Deanjo: What card do you have as well?
Hedgehog_: yes, sorry
Hedgehog_: it's in
Hedgehog_: my card is an Nvidia 9400
Hedgehog_: it's integrated in a Mac Mini
Hedgehog_: but that's no problem at all
Hedgehog_: sorry if I dissapear
Hedgehog_: I don't have my.own connection
Deanjo: get rid of Option "UseEvents" "on"
Hedgehog_: I just put that option, but it didn't work before
Hedgehog_: no difference: tearing as hell on desktop
Deanjo: other then that your mode lines look really odd with 1 pixel difference lines
Hedgehog_: ahh, that!
Hedgehog_: they're my custom video modes for mame
Deanjo: So you just use a TV?
Hedgehog_: no, no
Hedgehog_: I use a LCD monitor
Hedgehog_: via vga
Hedgehog_: but some mame games use originally exotic refresh rates
Hedgehog_: Caveman Ninja uses 50Hz for example
Hedgehog_: so, to get peeeeerfect smoth scroll, I defined and use those modes
Deanjo: But does your monitor actually handle those rates?
Hedgehog_: yes :)
Hedgehog_: it does so very well
Hedgehog_: with perfect sync and smoth scroll
Hedgehog_: I had to remove pin 21 from the vga cable so no driver can retrieve it's EDID
Hedgehog_: but after I did, it started to acceprt those exotic modes
Hedgehog_: with OpenGL, Vsync, and those rates, I can play those MAME games as they're meant to be played with perfect smooth scroll
Deanjo: OK but you have no entries for your desktop modes
Hedgehog_: aren't those modes desktop modes?
Hedgehog_: I mean, I use those modes for my desktop, too :)
Hedgehog_: and before that I used standard modes
Hedgehog_: standard VESA modes with default timings
Hedgehog_: but vsync in desktop didn't work, either
Deanjo: I bet anything your desktop is trying to use a different refresh rate and thus the tearing
Hedgehog_: note I'm not using compiz, beryl, or anyhing fancy
Hedgehog_: well, every game/app I try on xv has tearing problems
Hedgehog_: even in fullscreen mode
Hedgehog_: every SDL app, for example
Hedgehog_: except those using openGL extnsions
Hedgehog_: what should be my mode, the?
Deanjo: Well that all depends on the monitor
Hedgehog_: but that's not how vsync is supposed to work
Deanjo: Instead of removing that pin you should have just put IgnoreEDID into xorg
Hedgehog_: it was done for mac OSX and Morphos, too
Hedgehog_: those systems are stubon with edids
Hedgehog_: and there's no souch an option
Deanjo: Actually there is
Deanjo: it's in the plist
Hedgehog_: I didn't know about that :D
Hedgehog_: well, I have some spare cables
Hedgehog_: anyway, vsync works by adjusting framerate to screen referesh: it does so for openGL apps
Hedgehog_: it shouln't be any different for xv
Hedgehog_: I mean, if I have a 60hz mode, it should limit framerates to 60fps
Hedgehog_: it doesn't mean what mode I specify
Deanjo: Well if you have spare cables, use one, regenerate your xorg to get the correct meta modes from the edid and start from there, tearing yes/no
Deanjo: and then add your custom mode lines to xorg
Hedgehog_: but that's what I did to start with
Hedgehog_: I removed the metamodes lines manually just before pasting it into pastebin
Hedgehog_: because they were commented
Hedgehog_: but before I put those custom modes, I used the original modes, with the EDID modes detected by the driver
Hedgehog_: it was later that I put the custo modes
Hedgehog_: custom modes
Deanjo: With any troubleshooting you go to a base config first to isolate the issue and then move to the next step
Hedgehog_: well, ok, I'm emerging the new drivers now
Hedgehog_: so I'll start with a fresh config after that
Hedgehog_: is that ok?
Deanjo: If your detected setup is still giving you issues on the desktop then you have a starting point
Hedgehog_: well, it's done
Hedgehog_: plugged a complete cable
Hedgehog_: istalled 190.42-r2
Hedgehog_: deleted old xorg.conf
Hedgehog_: and run nvidia-xconfig to auto-generate a new one
Hedgehog_: it's in www.pastebin.org/51249
Hedgehog_: it's a default xorg, fresh, untouched
Hedgehog_: vsync is ON in every nvidia vsync setting, both OpenGL and SV
Hedgehog_: but it's the same
Hedgehog_: openGL vsyncs great, but desktop tears as hell
Hedgehog_: it's very noticeable when I move windows around
Hedgehog_: do you guys have ano other ideas, please?
Hedgehog_: do you guys it's possible to have tear-free desktop with nvidia drivers?
Hedgehog_: I know openGL can vsync
Hedgehog_: but desktop tears as hell
Hedgehog_: any help, please?
redeeman: Hedgehog_: only with compositing enabled
Hedgehog: redeeman: I had compositing enabled in the past, and it caused tearing in openGL applications
Hedgehog: is it corrected or can that side-effect be avoided?
Hedgehog: I work and play with openGL apps
Hedgehog: so I can't just fix desktop tearing and get openGL tearing in exchange :D
redeeman: it shouldn't tear
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: uhm, codename "Rostock"?!?
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: you know that this is a german town, not a swedish one, right?
michaellarabel: Ivanovic: I know that. It's only PTS 1.x and 2.x that use Norwegian city names ;-)
Ivanovic: ah, okay
Ivanovic: the stuff for evil operating systems is named after (not sooo commounly known) german towns, right?
michaellarabel: Ivanovic: So have you been to Rostock before?
Ivanovic: not that i really would remember it
Ivanovic: IIRC i was at the "Ostsee" only once though not to Rostock
michaellarabel: Ah, okay. Do you remember what town on the sea?
Ivanovic: some small town named "Dame"
michaellarabel: Anything special about it?
Ivanovic: no, was just some camping when i was a small child
Ivanovic: were visiting "east germany" rather shortly after the borders were open
michaellarabel: Ah, I'll be in east Germany next month and deciding where to go when I have the time.
michaellarabel: Hi bkero