Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-05-09
Deanjo: hmmm, michaellarabel did you ever announce vbox 2.2.2?
michaellarabel: Deanjo: IIRC, there wasn't anything too exciting in 2.2.2
Deanjo: Ya, I guess, about the only thing interesting is the Snow Leopard support and a bunch of X related fixes
Deanjo: Holy Crap! http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/036/scorc1000_detail.html
Deanjo: 2.84 lb
redeeman: scythes site is the worst crap ever
Deanjo: I thought the thermalright pure copper was heavy
Deanjo: Too bad it cools like shit
Deanjo: thinks redeeman should put one on his atom board :P
redeeman: i added a 70mm AMD oem cooler fan
redeeman: or well - replaced with
redeeman: i warn you (if you too have d945gclf)
redeeman: do not set the fan speed to automatic
redeeman: in bios
redeeman: then acpi fucks up and can cause your kernel to hardlock
Deanjo: heh, na I held off buying one. Waiting for the ION boards
redeeman: i bought a d945gclf2 to replace the d945gclf (which i now use as a router)
redeeman: i heard rumors that there is a secret menu in the bios, where one can set the fsb alot higher
Deanjo: GB lan, PCI-e 4 sata ports
mattmatteh: would never havd a huge cooler like that
Deanjo: Make for a great low power media server
mattmatteh: would like a board like that but not x86
redeeman: you can get atom board with pcie x1
redeeman: without nvidia that is
Deanjo: in itx form though?
Deanjo: The only ones that I've seen with the intel chipsets that have pci-e are full sized boards
redeeman: it was some mini-ptx weird thing
Deanjo: Wonder what ever happened to AMD's small form factor boards that they were trying to push a year or so ago
maligor: what? geodes?
Deanjo: No they had a platform that accepted their regular sockets
Deanjo: It was called the DTX form factor
rvalles: 15:44:26 < redeeman> i bought a d945gclf2 to replace the d945gclf (which i now use as a router)
rvalles: 15:44:55 < redeeman> i heard rumors that there is a secret menu in the bios, where one can set the fsb alot higher
rvalles: poke me if you discover so
rvalles: there's one thing
rvalles: I've flashed my bios customized with intel's tools for doing so
rvalles: and there's a multiplier option
rvalles: I tried setting it higher, but it doesn't do shit (multiplier locked)
rvalles: nothing for FSB as far as I know
redeeman: it was only rumors
rvalles: most likely
rvalles: the chipset should allow setting fsb however
rvalles: maybe some third party tool would allow doing so from some OS
Azerthoth: oh for shame, thats not an open bios
Azerthoth: Deanjo dont you think that just horrible
rvalles: it's a shame atom's a bit slow sometimes
rvalles: 'd love it to hash files faster...
redeeman: do you constantly hash your files?
rvalles: but low power was more important here
rvalles: I use some sort of database where I file ed2k hashes of episodes after watching them
Deanjo: lol well OC'ing a cpu that concentrates on power consumption does seem abit contradictory Azerthoth
rvalles: if I watch the movie on linux, no problem
rvalles: because the desktop box is fast enough
rvalles: I don't have a confortable tool (haven't investigated) like ed2k_hash for windows tho
rvalles: ed2khash exists for windows but UI sucks
redeeman: and why do you even care about winblows+
rvalles: so, I end up using ssh
Deanjo: If you wanted quick hashing you should have got a C3
rvalles: and hashing on the atom
Deanjo: err C7
rvalles: atom's way better overall, anyways
Deanjo: or any padlock Via cpu
rvalles: if only if the chipset wasn't such POS
rvalles: 945GC... :(
rvalles: I can very well expend some money and replace the board once better stuff is out, anyways
rvalles: and give this one as desktop board to some family member with no computer, like I usually do.
redeeman: rvalles: what sort of hashing algorithm does ed2k use?
rvalles: I probably am fine for a bunch of years anyways
rvalles: and shouldn't even be thinking about replacing the atom I only got last october
rvalles: (it does home server tasks... some services to inet, some to the lan, a lot of p2p clients)
redeeman: i have a geode for that
rvalles: (gcc might even come up with a -march=atom at some point... in-order could sure do that)
rvalles: it's <50w
rvalles: it's not super low power
rvalles: but it's low power at least
rvalles: not to the point I should worry any further
Deanjo: pfft, you need a 16 way server for that stuff redeeman :D
Deanjo: What's the use of torrenting if you don't have a 1000 going at once :P
rvalles: it's a shame I'm also limited to 2GB of RAM :/
redeeman: i can do that still
rvalles: (in a single stick...)
redeeman: rvalles: atom can do md4 fairly fast
redeeman: message length = 16 -> 39.59 MBytes/s
redeeman: message length = 64 -> 100.16 MBytes/s
redeeman: message length = 256 -> 211.37 MBytes/s
redeeman: message length = 1024 -> 272.52 MBytes/s
redeeman: message length = 8192 -> 298.26 MBytes/s
rvalles: 415913738 bytes
rvalles: user 0m2.916s
rvalles: user 0m0.715s
rvalles: atom 330 vs desktop q9550 OC@3.7GHz
redeeman: well what did you expect? :P
rvalles: less than a second is annoying but passable
rvalles: 3 seconds is a test of patience :/
redeeman: why is it that you need to hash your files constantly?
rvalles: not constantly, but after I watch some episode of sth
rvalles: to register it as watched.
rvalles: on some db thing I use that uses ed2k hashes as key
rvalles: I guess I can live with it, however
rvalles: it used to be way worse
rvalles: ultrasparc III before atom
rvalles: and pentium 200 before ultrasparc III
rvalles: (as home servers)
pazo: noone using ARM? :) Could be nice knowing how fast md4 would be
rvalles: I wish there were more options
rvalles: for cheap low-power mini-itx/micro-atx stuff
redeeman: yeah lol, nobody makes a usable arm board
rvalles: I hate having to use x86
rvalles: if only if it was, say, ultrasparc T2 instead :P
rvalles: or ARM (cortex-a8)
redeeman: the new multicore cortex
rvalles: yeah, A9 is it?
redeeman: -mp, yes
rvalles: that'd be lovely.
rvalles: enough blabbering I guess... I have some deadline to meet :/
Espen_: Hello :>
Espen_: Just came over the website while searching on google for some cases, and about Linux. I got spare parts of a computer, which im going to use as a File Sharing Server, Game Server, and maybe VOIP Server .
Espen_: The hardware is Asus Commando P965 - Nvidia 7600GS - Q6600.
Espen_: Not sure which linux i should choose, i've never used linux before.
Espen_: But ive been recommended OpenSuSE, Ubuntu.
Espen_: Whats the diffrence? are one of them a better os for servers?
Espen_: Intel Q6600*
maligor: I'd probably take opensuse for that use over ubuntu
rski: Espen_: there's a server edition for ubuntu
rski: dunno about suse
Espen_: mailigor why?
rski: it really dosent matter thou
maligor: because I don't particularly have faith in ubuntu
rski: both will work fine
maligor: if you want to setup one of the game voip systems, you might want to check what distributions they support
rski: i'd recommend muble
Espen_: hm sec ill check :>
Espen_: says only
Espen_: Linux i386 - 32bit (Version 3.0.3)
Espen_: for the VOIP program :>
rski: why use ventrilo
rski: when there is a free and better alternative
Espen_: Because its the one ive just had good experience with.
Espen_: didn't like teamspeak
Espen_: ill check muble
Espen_: easy for non-experienced linux users?
rski: easy enough
redeeman: easy for people that literally gets scared if "the internet" is not available(aka, no crappy ugly blue IE icon)? probably not
Espen_: kk :p
Espen_: Can't wait for my internet :>
Espen_: Been using telephone cables for internet with a max speed of 5mb/512kbps
Espen_: getting fiber now, with a maximum of 50mb/50mb speed :D
redeeman: i ordered 40/40mbit fiber
Azerthoth: Espen_ try my life, satellite 512k
Espen_: Why satellite?
RobbieAB: manages happily with 1GB fiber
Espen_: Dont have cables where you are?
Azerthoth: because I live in bush alaska and there are no hardlines out of town
Azerthoth: only sat
redeeman: did you consider upgrading your backwards country?
redeeman: this isn't the middle ages
Azerthoth: yes, but Mr gates wasnt interested :P
Azerthoth: redeeman the nature nazis get up in arms when you want to string something across 500 miles of tundra
redeeman: that's what guns are for
redeeman: or corrupt senators
redeeman: nothing of which you are in short supply of
Azerthoth: really which one would that be?
redeeman: all of them?
redeeman: ofcourse they already have overlords
redeeman: so the bribe gets bigger
Azerthoth: the one who not only had the charges dropped, but is now having the prosecuters themselves prosecuted?
redeeman: you could also strike a deal with your presidents overlord
Azerthoth: prosecuted under bush admin, and freed under obama I mind you
redeeman: whomever that may be, it's certainly not the people
Azerthoth: ah so kind of like stallman
redeeman: i suppose, except he actually does do what the people need and indeed many want
Azerthoth: he does what he says people need, and people swallow it, much like any political beast
Azerthoth: he sets up a strawman argument, gets people to swallow it, and then the zealots run with it
Azerthoth: calling blasphemy on any who disagree
redeeman: it's obvious you don't know what you talk about
Azerthoth: yup, so unlike any other politician
Azerthoth: keep telling yourself that
redeeman: i need not try convince myself anything
Azerthoth: true, faith requires no facts
redeeman: that is true, however, unlike you, i don't have faith in stallman, and don't judge him based on it
Azerthoth: however you will defend him to the end and refuse to see or find fault in his holiness at all
redeeman: if you can present me with evidence as to why stallman isn't doing what i claim, then by all means
Azerthoth: hmm, I did the other day
redeeman: please refresh my memory
Azerthoth: without copyright the GPL is paper, worthless paper at that, as copyright is the only strength that the GPL has, however RMS is doing his best to remove copyright in its entirety
redeeman: are you being serious that this is your argument?
Azerthoth: just one example
redeeman: have you ever attended just ONE of his copyright/gpl speeches?
redeeman: because if you did
redeeman: you would know that what he wants is different copyright laws
RobbieAB: Except without copyright, than the "restrictive" licences basically vanish.
redeeman: and that the GPL is a way to use the copyright/patent laws to serve our purpose under that law
Azerthoth: I would realize that nothing he says on it can force anyone else to release their code, but it would take all GPL code and let anyone roll it up into whatever project they want
RobbieAB: As copyright is the underpinning to most intelectual property law.
Azerthoth: RobbieAB what makes them 'have' to release any code, they can then just snatch up anything they want BSD style
redeeman: i lack the words to describe how insane your argument is, given that you obviously don't know anything about what stallman wants
RobbieAB: GPL doesn't force code release either, just restricts what you may do with derivative works.
Azerthoth: correction GPL does mandate code release upon distribution
RobbieAB: In fact, IIRC, the common claim of "GPL code must be freely released" is not actually correct.
redeeman: stallman even says on most of his speeches that you are free to not share
redeeman: just that IF you share, you have certain obligations
redeeman: (if its GPL ofcourse)
Azerthoth: internal use does not require release, any distribution however mandates release
RobbieAB: It just mandates that those I distribute my binaries to can demand my code.
Azerthoth: and not even for free
Azerthoth: you can charge thousands for it
redeeman: you cannot set arbitrary price
Azerthoth: redeeman wanna bet?
redeeman: have you read the good document?
RobbieAB: You can, just you will be undercut.
Azerthoth: redeeman neither specifies a limit and gpl3 states it even slearer
RobbieAB: Exactly. And if I don't tell you who my customers are, and bind my customers to a non-disclosure on the fact they are my customers, in theory I could sell the same code multiple times.
RobbieAB: eventually, people will redistribute my code, but I can probably make a packet before it happens if my product is any good.
redeeman: RobbieAB: a nondisclosure agreement cannot stop those you distribute gpl covered works to, from redistributing
RobbieAB: redeeman: No, but it makes it harder for my customers to work out who has copies of my product.
RobbieAB: i.e. I sell you something, and I want to sell it to Azerthoth, I would prefer if it to be as difficult as possible for Azerthoth to work out he could get the product from you.
KjetilK: when choosing between a Radeon HD4770 and a 4830, would there be any reason now to choose the 4830?
maligor: KjetilK, slightly higher memory bw :P
KjetilK: maligor: oh, OK :-)
maligor: never checked benchmarks tho
KjetilK: but it is not likely to be much of a difference with driver maturity or something?
maligor: I'd guess the 4770 is slightly faster
KjetilK: I checked the benchmarks, and 4770 is waaaay faster :-)
KjetilK: faster than 4850 too, mostly :-)
redeeman: ofcourse with the current driver situation, both are essentially useless
maligor: how so?
KjetilK: so, I was mostly concerned with the possibility that it is might be a "too early" product that may, in the end have less support than the older 4800 line
redeeman: in that they are of no use
maligor: redeeman, you spout such non-sense
KjetilK: I had a chat with the folks at #radeonhd, and they claimed it was pretty good allready...
redeeman: maligor: sorry, i do not consider heating source to be of use
maligor: the 4770 looks like a 40nm version of the same hw with 128bit gddr5
maligor: redeeman, ha ha ha
KjetilK: yup, that's how I would look at the specs too
maligor: are you perhaps referring to wine?
maligor: since I don't really care atall for wine
maligor: etqw works fine and savage2 works fine mostly
redeeman: does it by chance support all new X servers?
redeeman: how about new kernels?
maligor: they add support quite fast
redeeman: and also, when will they remove the artificial requirement of 32bit compat libs?
maligor: what requirement?
redeeman: that the download page says 32bit libs are required to install or work
maligor: it doesn't
redeeman: it did not long ago
maligor: heh, well, it's not true
redeeman: yes but that's irellevant
redeeman: it causes distributions to limit the packages
redeeman: because upstream says it must be so
redeeman: ahh i see amd removed the old download page
redeeman: but maligor
redeeman: it still says that
redeeman: "32-Bit packages must be installed for 64-Bit Linux drivers to install or work."
redeeman: and it's phrased so ridicoulesly ugly
redeeman: "install or work"
redeeman: as if they are just speculating... "well.. we dont know.. but surely they are required?!?!?!?!!?"
maligor: most commercial linux games are 32bit
redeeman: so what?
redeeman: i am not talking about other software
redeeman: i am talking about the drivers
maligor: and amdcccle is probably 32bit
maligor: mm.. no, it isn't
redeeman: i don't care
redeeman: it's an artificial limitation
maligor: heh, you don't care and complain about crap like that?
maligor: install debian sid and you'll have fglrx-glx-ia32
redeeman: i don't care about amdcccle
redeeman: what i care about is their complete incompetence and ignorance in writing such crap
maligor: I have to say.. I don't particulary care about your ignorance either
redeeman: are you saying what im saying is not true?
maligor: which bit?
maligor: that amd page says it requires 32bit?
redeeman: well we already established i were right there, and you werent
maligor: I would imagine you're correct about it
redeeman: but more specifically, whether it's required or not
redeeman: so now you changed opinion :P
maligor: it's not required
redeeman: that the download page says 32bit libs are required to install or work
redeeman: it doesn't
redeeman: but maligor, then we are in agreement, my original complaint about amd/ati on this is correct, their information is wrong
maligor: heh, what I meant was that the drivers don't require
maligor: if you read it on the page, I assumed you had it correct and didn't think you'd read it that way
redeeman: i fully know it's not required
redeeman: but because they say it is
redeeman: some distributions(which shall remain nameless here), will put limits on the packages
maligor: so this turns the card into a brick how?
maligor: heh, like ubuntu?
redeeman: possibly, i don't know
redeeman: i don't care about ubuntu
maligor: complain to the package manager, not me
redeeman: i informed amd about this a number of times
maligor: a highly important feature of the driver clearly
redeeman: except that this isn't a part of the driver
maligor: while it does seem to cause an amusing incident, I still fail to see the importance
KjetilK: docs suck, that's life
redeeman: importance is that if i were to use their snotty driver, i would have to do some work, purely because of their misinformation
maligor: you can also just create your own packages
redeeman: maligor: you are asking me to work around a problem created due to incompetent website maintainers?
maligor: it's also incompetent package maintainer for your unnamed distro
KjetilK: I tend to use my hardware for a long time, so my main concern is how development is going
redeeman: maligor: no it's not
maligor: ha, it is
maligor: it's BS
redeeman: maligor: they will not do it because upstream refuses to take bug reports of any sort when the instructions are violated
maligor: it's also more work to distribute ia32 in a separate package
redeeman: maligor: aka amd must officially not write that crap
maligor: since you have to make multiple packages
redeeman: i don't ask amd to distribute anything differently
redeeman: the distribution can ofcourse handle that itself
redeeman: all i ask is that they don't write crap
maligor: I didn't know upstream, aka amd, even took bug reports directly
redeeman: they take from distributions and possibly some "blessed" others
redeeman: ofcourse they just ignore them
redeeman: but that's a different matter :)
maligor: I doubt they ignore them if they take them
redeeman: sorry, my mistake - i meant to say "ofcourse they just wait multiple years before fixing them"
redeeman: which ofcourse some would call ignoring
maligor: depends on how they manage bugs
maligor: not sure what bug you're referring to tho, vsync on xvideo maybe?
redeeman: i would speculate they have a monkey in a basement which throws poo at printouts of the reports
redeeman: and those that don't get hit with poo within 48 hours, they look at
maligor: as opposed to nvidia who rewrote the entire backend of the xserver?
redeeman: im not saying nvidia is doing it right
maligor: you did complain about xserver compability
maligor: as for the kernel... well...
redeeman: but i also complain about nvidia
redeeman: with their shitty driver
redeeman: which allthough, works better than atis, still sucks
maligor: 2.6.29 looks like acpi was completely replaced
redeeman: am i to understand fglrx doesn't support .29?
maligor: there's a patch but it has issues
redeeman: case in point
redeeman: in case you didn't notice, nvidia can run on .29
maligor: I'd say it's just another example of how the linux kernel is somewhat mismanaged
redeeman: the kernel is not mismanged in those areas
maligor: they're doing heavy development on what was supposed to be stable
maligor: the api's change for practically all minor version releases
rski: there is a stable series
redeeman: maligor: the internal ones, yes
redeeman: which is how development happens
maligor: rski, heh, yes, micro versions
redeeman: ati can just get their crap merged
rski: i think it's 2.6.24 that's being fixed up
redeeman: and then it will be auto-fixed with changes
maligor: makes you wonder why you have major and minor in the version too
redeeman: because the development model changed ofcourse
maligor: soon they'll probably go emacsian and proclaim linux 6.40
redeeman: but for various reasons, they didn't rename
maligor: ati can't get their crap merged
redeeman: and why is that?
redeeman: they don't want to follow the rules?
redeeman: oh right, they don't
redeeman: so well.. that makes it THEIR work to keep stuff current
redeeman: work which they obviously don't do in a timely fashion
maligor: anyway, there's no rule that you have to merge your code
redeeman: and which it is KNOWN is possible
redeeman: since nvidia can make their closed crap work