Kano: hi, whats your boottime with bootchartd? without splashy and a 1 hd system i am down to 13s... (ext4)
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/bootchart/bootchart-kanotix-ext4-e8400-3000-no-splashy.png
Kano: 1-2 s more with splashy enabled
Kano: fresh install of course
JayF: what does Phone (H) and Phnone (W) mean? ...ive a formular from the us an no idea waht W and H means
Kano: Work Home
Kano: ;)
JayF: ah, thank you
JayF: in germany usually mobile und home is used :o)
Kano: hi michaellarabel , what was the fastest boottime for a standard hd install you ever benchmarked
michaellarabel: Kano: No clue, I benchmark way too much stuff to remember.
Kano: with a standard kanotix install on ext4 filesystem without initrd and splashy i got down to 12s
Kano: no system service optimization
Kano: default 14-15s
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/bootchart/
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/bootchart/bootchart-kanotix64-ext4-e8400-3000-no-initrd-no-splashy.png
Kano: even a slow system can boot fast like
Kano: http://kanotix.com/files/fix/bootchart/bootchart-kanotix-ext4-x2-3800-no-initrd-no-splashy.png
Milyardo: Good Morning Kano, michaellarabel
Kano: thats no upstart, pure sysvinit
Kano: hi Milyardo
Kano: somebody could think that u is optimizing boottime with upstart but it is not really faster
michaellarabel: Hi Milyardo.
michaellarabel: Milyardo: Anything new with AA3?
Milyardo: I'm SCPing the leaked beta from my windows box to my Linux machine right now
Milyardo: I saw the ArmyDevs left in a PDB file
Milyardo: so I'm going to search through it with the strings commands to see what interesting Debug symbols I find
michaellarabel: ooo let me know if you find anything interesting :)
Milyardo: Its a big debug file(160megs D:)
Milyardo: zpowers@ztv:~/Downloads/Win32/AA3 Leaked Beta/America's Army 3.0 Beta$ strings A A3Game.pdb | grep -i Linux
Milyardo: PLATFORM_Linux
Milyardo: wxOS_UNIX_LINUX
Milyardo: NAME_Linux
Milyardo: wxWidgets ooOO
Milyardo: NAME_Linux
Milyardo: PLATFORM_Linux
Milyardo: wxOS_UNIX_LINUX
Milyardo: :D
Milyardo: I wonder what AA3 or unreal uses wx for
michaellarabel: wxWidgets is used by the UE3 editor
Milyardo: Ahhh
Milyardo: zpowers@ztv:~/Downloads/Win32/AA3 Leaked Beta/America's Army 3.0 Beta$ strings AA3Game.pdb | grep -i wx | wc -l
Milyardo: 82042
Milyardo: quote extensively its seems
Milyardo: *quite
Milyardo: **it uses it quite extensively
Kano: Milyardo: do you know grep -c
Milyardo: I like wc
Milyardo: pipes are sexy :)
Milyardo: zpowers@ztv:~/Downloads/Win32/AA3 Leaked Beta/America's Army 3.0 Beta$ strings AA3Game.pdb | grep -i steam | wc -l comes up with nothin interstingly
Milyardo: especialy since this build of the leaked beta only works with Steam
Kano: you can dl it with steam next time?
Milyardo: I don't think so
Milyardo: You have to run a steam crack to play the game
Kano: ah
michaellarabel: I can't wait to finally have a NVIDIA ION system to finally test :)
Kano: you like slow systems, do you ,)
Kano: michaellarabel: did you notice much speed improvements with ext4? you can only delete files much faster it seems, the rest is not really accellerated
Kano: deleting a full kernel git tree is fast however...
Milyardo: I would imagine moving many files would be much faster
Kano: dont know, i mainly move over network
Kano: but after compile i delete things i dont need
Kano: compile time is not faster
Milyardo: -IC:\dev\Depots\CIS\cruisecontrol\checkout\AA3\UnrealEngine3\Development\Src\XWindow\Inc
Milyardo: looks like he included a UE3s XWindow driver in this build, though that probably doesn't meach at all
Milyardo: *much
Milyardo: This game must have taken forever to build
Kano: do you think they use linux as level editor
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: *important* news (yes, timing matters!): http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/oldnews.php?
Ivanovic: "We are just over 9 hours away from the LGP flash sale where all standard edition game prices will be set to just 9 pounds. Sale starts at midnight UK time and lasts for 24 hours only. Resellers will receive further discounts when they login to their accounts."
michaellarabel: Ivanovic: Thanks, will post about it shortly. Working on HD 4770 review at the moment.
Ivanovic: great, looking forward to it
Ivanovic: ha, finally wesnoth is the best rated prog/lib/whatever at happypenguin!
Ivanovic: before scummvm was in front of us, now we are the app leading the ranking (average of 4.78)
Ivanovic: http://happypenguin.org/list?sort=avg_rating
Deanjo: Hey michaellarabel did you ever do a review on that coolermaster case that you got for for your tyan board?
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Not yet
michaellarabel: Tyan never sent a replacement board so that case is still empty.
Deanjo: Well get on it. Slacking off in Italy put ya behind. :P
michaellarabel: Deanjo: If only Tyan would sent out a new board...
Deanjo: They jerking you around?
Deanjo: Are you doing it through a RMA process?
GNU\colossus: are ATI's southbridges (more precisely, their integrated SATA controllers) working fine in ACPI-mode with Linux?
Deanjo: no
GNU\colossus: how exactly are they not?
Deanjo: Well it's not limited to linux
Deanjo: Their AHCI mode is extremely slow on writes
GNU\colossus: do you have any benchmark results ready showing that in more detail, per chance?
Deanjo: Yup one sec
Deanjo: http://techreport.com/articles.x/15161/9
GNU\colossus: thanks, reading up...
GNU\colossus: hmm ok, that was a short read ;D
GNU\colossus: isn't NCQ mandatory for AHCI compliance?
Deanjo: http://techreport.com/articles.x/15256/9
Deanjo: Yes it is GNU\colossus
GNU\colossus: well, what's "We've noticed that this test favors storage controllers that support Native Command Queuing, which explains the 790GX's dismal showing." supposed to mean then?
Deanjo: Means it's busted in AMD chipsets
Deanjo: It's "supported" just that it's dreary
Deanjo: It's "supposed" to be fixed in the upcoming SB850 which has a redesigned sata controller
GNU\colossus: when's that about to be released?
Deanjo: Sometime this summer or fall
Deanjo: They pretty much have to fix it if they are going to be cutting off 3rd parties from making bulldozer chipsets
Deanjo: Otherwise they leave that server crowd with no real viable chipset
GNU\colossus: I see
GNU\colossus: well, seems like I'm going to wait a little longer then :)
Deanjo: The only thing they have fixed since making the chipsets so far is not being able to run in 64-bit mode in the SB600
GNU\colossus: are there any K10 CPUs that are comparable to K8 designs in terms of energy consumption?
GNU\colossus: esp. when idle
michaellarabel: Deanjo: They just don't want to send out a new board now since they are beginning work on their next-gen boards.
Deanjo: ahh ok
michaellarabel: but those are DDR3 based, where as I had bought 8 sticks of DDR2 just for that board...
Deanjo: Ya there are a few k10's that are ee editions GNU\colossus
GNU\colossus: Deanjo: do you happen to know their codenames, or whatever data they're identified by?
GNU\colossus: my price search engine lists K10 CPUs with a TDP of 95W and up only
Deanjo: Most of them are opterons IIRC
GNU\colossus: I see
GNU\colossus: 68W is a s low as it gets I guess
GNU\colossus: hmm, around 160€
GNU\colossus: that's not what I plan to pay :)
Deanjo: You looking for a Quad I suppose
GNU\colossus: as long as it's 2 cores minimum, I'm fine with it
GNU\colossus: (looking for a setup for a new fileserver for my LAN)
Deanjo: http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=450&f1=AMD+Phenom%E2%84%A2+X4+Quad-Core&f2=&f3=&f4=512&f5=AM2%2b&f6=&f7=65nm+SOI&f8=&f9=&f10=False&f11=
Deanjo: 65 watt
Deanjo: http://products.amd.com/en-us/desktopcpuresult.aspx?f1=AMD+Phenom%E2%84%A2+X4+Quad-Core&f2=&f3=&f4=512&f5=AM2%2b&f6=&f7=65nm+SOI&f8=&f9=&f10=False&f11=
GNU\colossus: hmhm
GNU\colossus: strange, I must have been overlooking that model :)
GNU\colossus: thanks for pointing towards it
GNU\colossus: is the K10's idle power consumtion comparable to that of the K8?
Deanjo: Ya their idle is pretty low
GNU\colossus: Still lower than Intel's Core2 lines'?
Deanjo: ya intel has a hard time matching their idle
GNU\colossus: hmmm... I'm really tempted to fill my cart with all kinds of sexy new hardware....
GNU\colossus: but I don't want a crappy southbridge, and I want low idle power consumption :<
GNU\colossus: so what shall I do?
Deanjo: lol, order 2 of everything and send me 1/2
GNU\colossus: ;P
GNU\colossus: basically, I just want a machine that's powerful enough to saturate a gbit link when writing and reading from/to a raid5 array sequentially over NFSv4.
GNU\colossus: an array of 4 disks, that is
GNU\colossus: a K8 should actually do that easily
Deanjo: Well you could easily use a k8 for that
GNU\colossus: hmmm, nvidias newer chipsets do support AHCI, too, right?
Deanjo: yes
GNU\colossus: since after 6-series?
Deanjo: The 7 series and 9 series
GNU\colossus: ok. I'll check out available boards right now
GNU\colossus: the geforce 7025 was known for its low power consumption iirc. are series 9 even better in that regard? (I don't care about VDPAU or any of those gimmicks.)
Deanjo: The last I checked at Toms it was within a a watt or two of the ATI's
GNU\colossus: ok, so it shouldn't really matter
GNU\colossus: "geforce 8x00" chipsets come with an ahci enabled SB, too?
Deanjo: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-nvidia-chipset,1972-21.html
Deanjo: Yes the all 8 series do GNU\colossus
GNU\colossus: good
Deanjo: The 8x00 is a 7 series without sli
GNU\colossus: so it doesn't matter if I buy 8100, 8200 or 8300 for my purpose?
Deanjo: not for your purpose
GNU\colossus: good
GNU\colossus: many thanks for your advise and support by the way :)
Deanjo: no prob
GNU\colossus: I wonder if there's a board out there with non-crappy onboard gbit ethernet
Deanjo: FYI, I run a Asus M3N-78 VM, for the same purposes
Deanjo: Got a 4200+ee on it and it has no issues maxing out
GNU\colossus: I see. any reasons why you opted for that specific board?
Deanjo: Cheap, 5 internal sata ports, great linux support
Deanjo: Replaced a pain in the ass M2A-VM HDMI
GNU\colossus: do you happen to know who made its onboard NIC?
Deanjo: Your talking the PHY controller?
GNU\colossus: yep
Deanjo: one sec I'll check
Deanjo: Realtek8211CL-GR
GNU\colossus: thanks
GNU\colossus: I suppose your box is running headless?
Deanjo: Yup, I NX into it
Deanjo: Got another running as a HTPC as well. Works fine there too
GNU\colossus: with VDPAU enabled?
Deanjo: ya
GNU\colossus: ah, I just realized it's a µATX board
Deanjo: HDMI audio was a bit of a head scratcher until I configured alsa not to use the motherboard spdif out instead of the HDMI out
Deanjo: There is actually 3 digital outs on that mb, one external, one internal header and one for hdmi
GNU\colossus: hmm, it'd make a nice replacement for the board in my parents' HTPC, as it seems
GNU\colossus: that's some geforce 630a asus mobo, iirc
GNU\colossus: for my fileserver, I'm looking for a board with a little more non-multimedia-connectivity
GNU\colossus: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=K10N78-1394&s= - that one looks attractive
Deanjo: I have 0 complaints about it.. It will be getting my old 9850 Phenom as soon as I get around to replacing it with a 955 in my main machine
Deanjo: I'll be massively underclocking it to drop the voltage
GNU\colossus: heh
GNU\colossus: well, I'll be running a K8 CPU
GNU\colossus: and want to use C'n'Q
GNU\colossus: so no undervolting for me
Deanjo: Well I want to run a build server in a VM as well on it, that's why I'll be moving it
GNU\colossus: "- 1 x COM port header" probably means that there is no actual port on the rear panel, right?
Deanjo: There is a header
Deanjo: No actual port though
GNU\colossus: a "header" in the sense that I need some kind of panel connecting to that header
Deanjo: Ya, it's just a standard com header. That pinout hasn't changed in years
GNU\colossus: is this "header" following some kind of standard for that thing?
GNU\colossus: k, so any panel should work. that's great.
GNU\colossus: I need RS232 for my GSM Terminal
Deanjo: Ya, I've got about 20 of those old db9 plate connectors sitting around
Deanjo: It the "computer parts of mystery" collection :P
GNU\colossus: hehe
GNU\colossus: I'll have to check my parents' basement ;)
GNU\colossus: didn't move all that crap with me 5 years ago
GNU\colossus: but there's a chance some of those are still floating around, somewhere
Deanjo: more then likely
Deanjo: Hell you probably find 10 million of them and any place that sells computer parts or old systems
GNU\colossus: hmm, I don't get it. is there any difference between a "AMD Athlon X2 4850e" and a "AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+"?
GNU\colossus: both 2x2.5ghz, same codename, socket am2.
Deanjo: I think the 4850 has a lower TDP
GNU\colossus: ah yeah, I'm a moron
Deanjo: 45w vs 65
GNU\colossus: so the 4850 it is
GNU\colossus: I love shopping. A pity it costs actual money though.
Deanjo: lol, all I want is a AMD socket board with 12 sata connectors
GNU\colossus: what kind of PSU are you running in your low-power machines?
Deanjo: Just a sparkle 400 watt
GNU\colossus: well, what I'd really want to see run some day is this: http://geizhals.at/?cat=WL-44318
GNU\colossus: ok, so nothing too fancy
Deanjo: Na
Deanjo: I've had good luck with Sparkle, cheap and reliable but not total junk like the 800 watt powersupplies for $50
GNU\colossus: I never tried to save on my PSUs, actually
GNU\colossus: Tagan and Seasonic have always been great for me
GNU\colossus: and they operate practically inaudibly
Azerthoth: hmm I have one with 6 internal and 2 esata, AM2 socket that I dont use
Azerthoth: It didnt like my video card
Deanjo: I want them all internal
Deanjo: For my "performance" machines I've been going OCZ power supplies or Cool'N'Quiet
Deanjo: Err PC power and cooling I shoud say
Azerthoth: 12 internal, that works out to ... 18TB storage currently?
Azerthoth: or did I miss 2TB drives
Deanjo: They have 2 TB drives out now
Deanjo: WD
Azerthoth: yeesh
Deanjo: Hey man, I've got a lot of pr0n
Azerthoth: heh
Deanjo: It's a real bitch when you have to start deciding which starlet you want to delete
GNU\colossus: whereas the only truthful answer is: none.
GNU\colossus: btw, has one of you ever tried formatting external (magnetic) storage with UDF?
Deanjo: nope
GNU\colossus: well someone's got to try
GNU\colossus: ok, from the Linux side of things, all looks well so far
GNU\colossus: now I'm going to load the volume with possibly problematic files
GNU\colossus: and check if windows xp coughs up because of them
GNU\colossus: it winxp can even cope with UDF in the created version
GNU\colossus: hmm, according to wikipedia, reading should work, though writing does not
GNU\colossus: that's probably the first thing Vista would have going for it
GNU\colossus: Deanjo: which disks are you running in your fileserver?
Deanjo: For drives?
GNU\colossus: yep
Deanjo: I'm running a 1 TB WD Black Editions right now
Deanjo: DON'T get seagate 7200.12 series
Kano: Deanjo: did you ever test your bootspeed
Deanjo: Piss poor performance on all chipsets. I suspect they have yet another firmware flaw
Deanjo: For what the server?
Deanjo: Takes about ~25 seconds for that
GNU\colossus: I see
Kano: Deanjo: bootchart or manual bench
GNU\colossus: well I'm looking for something that operates close to inaudible
Deanjo: Just by the stop watch Kano
Deanjo: It's a server, bootspeed is not really needed
Kano: ok, well to compare bootchart is better
Kano: it does not stop kde login i think
Kano: for testing i got rid of initrd+splashy, gains about 3s
Deanjo: I just boot once and forget about the system. I'm not running a laptop
Kano: sure, just wanted to test speed today ;)
Kano: manual benching on the same system with win7+avg -> win boots at least 5s slower *g*
Deanjo: Ya, well, I've been working with the susestudio guys today to have some appliance tweaking done applied to it
Deanjo: Using dmraid Kano ?
Kano: on one system yes
Kano: but with older hds
Kano: so combined it is not that fast
Kano: only 3x200 gb
Deanjo: Ya, I notice after booting into windows the HD recognition is slower then rebooting from linux. I'm not sure what windows does to the HD detection
Deanjo: That's happened on all fakeraid controllers I've tried
Kano: well my setup uses HPA
Deanjo: Not sure what is going on there.
Kano: when i would boot ubuntu kernel without options
Kano: then i have to poweroff my system to be able to boot again
Deanjo: hmmm that doesn't happen here
Deanjo: Then again ubuntu has never been great with dmraid
Kano: dmesg|grep HPA
Kano: thats not dmraid,that a HPA issue
Kano: ubuntu unlocks HPA by default
Kano: no output, no problem
Deanjo: No HPA here
Kano: thats on of the on the fly changes i do for kanotix kernels *g*
Deanjo: Finally got all the Ubuntu servers @ work converted over to Suse
Kano: i dont like suse anymore
Kano: suse 8.0 i bought... because 7.3 was good
Kano: but the qualitiy of 8.0 was so bad that i never used suse again
Kano: at least not for hd install
Deanjo: Heh, they have their golden releases. The .0 series are always rough
Deanjo: Usually the .0 releases have some pretty radical changes
Kano: it was so radical that my mouse stopped working
Kano: funny isnt it
Deanjo: That's usually when all the stuff they "redo" comes into the mainline. the .1.2.3 releases are usually tweaking
Kano: well kanotix is pure speed...
Deanjo: Ya you do a nice job on it
Deanjo: I just like yast's admin tools too much to part with it
Kano: thats a good and a bad thing
Kano: the good, when it is working correctly then all is fine
Deanjo: My thing is if there is a tool that makes my life easier it's all the better
Kano: the bad, when it is not, then you dont know how to do it manually (or use other distros)
Deanjo: Well having a tool does not mean you still cannot do it manually
Kano: yast does not really make it more easy to use manual changes, until you disable that part
Deanjo: No, yast does not change your manual entries
Deanjo: It does not fuck up your configs
Deanjo: Earlier versions did but that is long gone
Azerthoth: thats why I prefer portage, you have 8 seperate tools to use ... and 2 thumbs
Kano: the time i used it, you had to disable to rewrite config files
Deanjo: Na sysconfig doesn't write over them anymore Kano
Deanjo: Azerthoth, do you have Java 64 plug-in working on your gentoo?
Azerthoth: nope
Kano: Deanjo: preinstalled on kanotix ;)
Deanjo: but I thought Gentoo "just works" :P
Deanjo: Sorry, had too
Azerthoth: well lets say I havent intentionally put it on my system
Azerthoth: flash 64bit went in no probs though
Deanjo: Dragonlord was almost at the point of calling me a liar I think
Deanjo: That's one thing I see a lot of with Gentoo guys, if it works in another distro but not in gentoo they seem to be in disbelief
Azerthoth: gentoo 'just works' the way Vista is 'just secure'
Azerthoth: and I use Gentoo or deriv exclusively
Deanjo: Hey you use what ever works for you
Deanjo: Fuck everybody else
Azerthoth: exactly right
RobbieAB: Deanjo: I prefer to be selective...
Azerthoth: For linux users there is Gentoo, for everyone else ... Ubuntu
Azerthoth: *grin*
Deanjo: lol
RobbieAB: *shrug* Gentoo is about being patient and tweaking the crap out of everything.
redeeman: very wrong
Deanjo: I do the same thing RobbieAB, I just do it through the build service
RobbieAB: redeeman: oh? If you aren't tweaking, why not just use a binary distro?
Deanjo: Cutting edge
RobbieAB: It's not.
redeeman: because it might not give me what i need without spending excessive amounts of manual time?
RobbieAB: It's so far from cutting edge it's silly.
RobbieAB: How long ago did they stick with xserver-1.3?
Deanjo: My philosophy always has been and always will be "use what suits your needs"
Azerthoth: Deanjo yup
Deanjo: I wouldn't dream of switching my old man to linux
Deanjo: Not enough lottery analysis programs lol
RobbieAB: *nods* What I say of Gentoo is it makes it easy for me to tweak.
Azerthoth: bah, I have my 60 year old mother using Sabayon
redeeman: lol sabayon
redeeman: disgusting
redeeman: that guy is insane
RobbieAB: Actually, oldies are easier to convert to Linux.
Deanjo: Sure what she want's to do it probably fills her needs
Azerthoth: thanks for the opinion
RobbieAB: Show them FF, and 90% are going to be happy.
Deanjo: yup
redeeman: Azerthoth: for example, he keeps adding sabayon to kde-apps.org just because it has kde
redeeman: Azerthoth: also, he acts like some sort of god in a cult
Deanjo: Actually old ladies are usually a pleasure to help. They listen so well
redeeman: Deanjo: and forget after 10 seconds :P
Azerthoth: redeeman your confusing the package sabayon with the distro sabayon, which are totally unconnected
Deanjo: heh, actually there are a lot of very carefull old women out there. they usually go "ok let me write this down"
redeeman: Azerthoth: no, im talking about the guy that started the distribution sabayon, and which (i guess?) still works on it
Azerthoth: thanks for playing, please come again when you have a clue
Azerthoth: again dont confuse the package with the distro
redeeman: im not confusing any package
redeeman: im talking about lxnay
redeeman: which im assuming is the guy from the sabayon you use?
redeeman: http://ciaranm.wordpress.com/tag/sabayon/
redeeman: lxnay is a lunatic
redeeman: he deserve his very own spot in the rubber room
RobbieAB: Nice guy though..
redeeman: lxnay> die alone then
redeeman: sounds nice to me :)
Azerthoth: redeeman the last sabayon that was sumbitted to kdeapps was 4 years agao
RobbieAB: I've met him, I meant in person
Azerthoth: last updated sept 2006
redeeman: RobbieAB: does he have a cult following, with religious hats and prayers?
Azerthoth: so please, constantly is a bit on the extreme side
Azerthoth: no, his name isnt Fabio stallman
redeeman: comparing lxnay to stallman is insane
Azerthoth: yes, fabio isnt insane
Azerthoth: stallman ... rubber toom
Azerthoth: room
Azerthoth: or perhaps you would care to explain to me why stallman is trying to destroy the GPL by removing the only protection the GPL has available?
Deanjo: Ya well Stallman is about as sane as Stalin
redeeman: Azerthoth: and what protection would that be?
Azerthoth: Copyright
Deanjo: His goal is to have a Bronze statue in front of the FSF
redeeman: yes, and it must be a fountain too
Azerthoth: make it plaster, and near a bar, it will turn golden yellow soon enough
redeeman: he has done more for software freedom than any of you have
redeeman: and continues to do so
Azerthoth: redeeman he has indeed, but like an aging diva he keeps reaching for one last trip to the spot light
Deanjo: Hah, more brick walls
Azerthoth: kind of pathetic actually
redeeman: Azerthoth: he does not care about his own fame
redeeman: anyone that knows him would know that
redeeman: what he cares about is YOUR freedom to operate your computer freely
Azerthoth: then why did the compromises in GPL3
redeeman: what compromises?
Deanjo: lmao I take it you have actually never met the dude redeeman
redeeman: Deanjo: i have
Azerthoth: redeemed you mean freedom as and only as he defines it
Azerthoth: what comprimises, you only have to read the drafts to final to see where he bowed to pressure
Deanjo: You want to talk to a rational guy about opensource talk to D. Richard Hipp
redeeman: Deanjo: does he have flash on his computer?
Azerthoth: redeeman regardless of his 'high morals' and 'selfless giving' he is a publicity whore
Deanjo: More then likely, he releases code for "good of them all"
redeeman: Azerthoth: you obviously know nothing about him
Azerthoth: I'm afraid I do actually
Azerthoth: I just dont put him on the saint pedestal you have him on
redeeman: i haven't said he is a saint
Deanjo: No Jobs would be :P kidding
Azerthoth: no soup for Deanjo
Deanjo: heh
Deanjo: Hey business wise I admire Jobs and Gates
Azerthoth: even Jobs wont allow any one to call him a saint ... he wont accept the demotion
Deanjo: Lets face it without those two, personal computing would not be nearly as far as it is
Azerthoth: indeed
redeeman: or maybe it would have been further
Deanjo: Hate it or love it they pushed the industry
Deanjo: Na redeeman without Jobs personal computing would probably still be laughed at
Azerthoth: redeeman why, thinking the hurd kernel would have pushed it further
Azerthoth: *chuckle*
Azerthoth: that thing even work yet?
Deanjo: With out Gates adoption would not have taken the huge turn it did int the 80's
Deanjo: Linus and Stallman wouldn't even have a platform to bitch and develop for if it wasn't for those two
redeeman: incorrect
redeeman: they wouldn't have had THIS platform
redeeman: a particularly poor one i might add
redeeman: how can you even presume to know what might have happened if you removed some events?
redeeman: as if NOTHING in that area would have happened then
Deanjo: It took Apple to show the potential in personal computing. It took MS to bring it mainstream
Azerthoth: about the same way you magically assume that something wonderful would have happened
Deanjo: I can't share the the platform not being good. If anything it has served the people well over the last almost 30 years. It's proven scalable and adaptable
Azerthoth: 6 up half dozen down
RobbieAB: Deanjo: x86 is a sucky platform
Deanjo: Not saying it's the best RobbieAB
RobbieAB: It's adaptable? Well, you can extend any platform.
Deanjo: Just saying it's done very well over the years
RobbieAB: Scalable? Well, put enough effort in and most things scale.
Deanjo: Hey and they pulled it off
RobbieAB: It's "done very well" by simple merit of being the platform windows targetted.
Azerthoth: not every platform ... hurd for example
Deanjo: From 4.77 Mhz to talking multi Ghz speeds
Deanjo: I wish my stocks would do so well in growth
RobbieAB: *nods* And what did MIPS scale from?
Deanjo: Did you read where I said it may not be the best?
RobbieAB: may not be the best still implies it has some merit beyond being the cheap crap MS targetted...
Deanjo: I'm just saying it hasn't been proven to be the major ass bottleneck that people make it out to be. It adapts and changes
Azerthoth: accessibility is a major plus for any market
RobbieAB: Azerthoth: but it is hardly a technical merit.
Azerthoth: what works best is typically not what works most
Deanjo: RobbieAB, for the longest time MIPS didn't even have a fpu
Azerthoth: RobbieAB what does technical superiority have to do with ludite purchasing power?
RobbieAB: Deanjo: No, it's not the major bottleneck, but considering that it's taken how long to become a candidate for HPC, and it still can't take the top spot from POWER derived chips...
Deanjo: At the time it was the only viable game in town. To hit the "reset" button and switch would cost many times more then to improve x86
Deanjo: Trying to change an entire industry is a lot harder then to improve established technology
RobbieAB: But in fact, what they did was simply used 5% of the transistor count to stick an x86 unit in, and did what they liked with the rest
Deanjo: An x86 unit that performed slower then what was out there for cheaper
Deanjo: Intel learned that lessen a few times.
Deanjo: Why did itanic fail? For the exact same reasons
Deanjo: As did PPC when it came to personal computing
RobbieAB: And AMD64 succeeded why?
RobbieAB: Because instead of trying to emulate the x86, they actually put an x86 unit in the hardware and ignored everything else if need be to run x86
Kano: because it was much simpler than itanium
Deanjo: itanic emulates, AMD64 doesn't
RobbieAB: Exactly. Because it costs 5% of the chip to put x86 in.
Deanjo: Most of AMD64 is a x86 design. AMD64 is mostly a addon to the x86
Deanjo: Which is exactly why intel was able to adapt to it fairly quickly with out a whole new architecture
RobbieAB: Buying a licence to the tech helped...
Deanjo: Sure it did, because of MS saying "fuck you intel"
Deanjo: Which ironically is exactly what Apple did too lately. lol
Deanjo: What AMD did extremely well with AMD64 is put out a product that was faster then the native solution. That's why it succeeded. MIPS can't say the same thing
Deanjo: It allowed compatibility at a speed boost
Deanjo: Even matching the performance is not good enough, like linux it has to greatly outpace it's competitors before the industry will even consider a switch
Azerthoth: nag dab it, I went and loaded the dishwasher and the conversation died ... damn you honey-do's
Deanjo: Come load mine
Deanjo: (dishwasher that is)
Lightkey: yes, fabio isnt insane
Lightkey: oh why thank you :-x
Azerthoth: heh
Daskreech: Hi
mattmatteh: hi
Daskreech: ANyone been following the t91 or t101 ?
michaellarabel: new AMD documentation
Daskreech: Where?
michaellarabel: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=13802
iamtechno: hey all. I was wondering how you guys enabled flicker free composite support in xorg.conf on a Radeon HD 4870?
Kano: flicker free?
Kano: never would say that about fglrx
iamtechno: On the article about 9.3 catalyst, phoronix stated that one could enable flicker-free composite support and I have composite enabled in my xorg.conf and it stil looks like the video from catalyst 9.2
Kano: i prefer to use radeon oss driver for videos, that looks better, no composite support of course
iamtechno: I probably would too but I enjoy playing games like UT2004 and OSS won't work as far as I know
Kano: get nvidia ;)
Kano: then you can do both the same driver *g*
Daskreech: UT]I[ ?
Daskreech: flees
iamtechno: Ahhh someone not a big UT2k4 fan? Personally I can't wait for a UT3 Linux
Daskreech: iamtechno: Yet wait you will
iamtechno: Its on my 2009 wish list
Daskreech: Somehow I don't see that happeneing
iamtechno: Any way how was the flicker-free composite enable?
Kano: flicker free is imageination with fglrx
iamtechno: Then how was that video taken then in the article?
Daskreech: currently?
iamtechno: what do you mean?
Daskreech: FF fglrx is currently imagination?
Kano: i would say it will be not differnent +1 y
Kano: the only driver that really improves is the oss driver
Kano: the binary is crap and will ever be crap
iamtechno: Kano: What I'm trying to do is repilcate the 9.3 results on my computer with 9.4
Kano: iamtechno: i never saw a video improvement with fglrx, not even without composite
iamtechno: Kano: okay? Then what was all the hoopla about on phoronix then when 9.3 came out
Kano: you can move a video with composite enabled now
Kano: what an improvement
Kano: but it is not flickerfree
Kano: fglrx is the worst binary driver out there.
Kano: well you can only compare it against nvidia ;)
Kano: but nvidia at least provides support for 2.6.29 for all cards, and with new cards even support for 2.6.30
Kano: fglrx supports only 2.6.28
iamtechno: Kano: okay my bad about the terminology mix up. That's what I'm trying to do. Move video/glxgears around.
Kano: flicker free video is not there
iamtechno: Kano: I thought I read that 9.4 supports 2.6.29
Kano: iamtechno: i see no real reason to do so
Daskreech: DOesn't VIA have a binary driver?
Kano: no way
Kano: i think not even 9.5 will. they are incompetent
Kano: best sell your card, get nvidia
Kano: enough working wine games
Kano: enjoy
Kano: most steam games work with nvidia directly via wine
Kano: bye
unomystEz: hello
unomystEz: you guys have a driver for the x3100?
unomystEz: it's unbearable
ognirc: nn
unomystEz: im compiling the 2.7.0 driver from intelgraphics.org
unomystEz: but i came across your site
Daskreech: :-)
unomystEz: am i totally off point here?
Azerthoth: totally off point
Daskreech: Why would we have the driver btw?
unomystEz: sorry, was completely off
wirechief: unomystEz: i might have a link for you
unomystEz: well im trying the 2.7.0 driver
unomystEz: just looking to up the performance
Daskreech: unomystEz: not completely
unomystEz: heard you guys were doing some generic hardware based
wirechief: unomystEz: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1130582&goto=newpost check out the first post on this thread
unomystEz: nice link
unomystEz: thank you!
wirechief: unomystEz: lots of reading there.
unomystEz: definitely
wirechief: i tried what was recommended
unomystEz: i've been looking for content like this for quite some time
wirechief: i still got a freeze but it is down to a certain website atm
unomystEz: im just looking for faster 2D performance
unomystEz: i haven't had any freezes
wirechief: well you will see thousands have looked at it
unomystEz: although I'm running Arch
wirechief: well the intel performance issues really go back at least 1.5 yrs
unomystEz: i just need better performance
unomystEz: yeah
wirechief: just that its coming to a head
unomystEz: im debating just buying a desktop
unomystEz: cuz this is pretty much unberable
unomystEz: unbearable
wirechief: especially with compiz as it now has blacklisted the intel driver
unomystEz: i remember my matrox millenium 4MB in win95 being orders of magnitude faster
wirechief: unomystEz: i have two distros
unomystEz: well not interested in any compiz, etc..
unomystEz: i run awesome wm
unomystEz: a tiling wm
wirechief: i use kanotix and do not have issues with intel on it
unomystEz: im as basic of a user as you can get
unomystEz: kanotix?
wirechief: also i test ubuntu
wirechief: currently running on ubuntu for testing
unomystEz: what is kantoix?
unomystEz: kanotix*
wirechief: its a special distro
wirechief: debian lenny
unomystEz: oh
unomystEz: well i will try this howto
wirechief: very stable and kano has made lots of goodies for it
unomystEz: see if it can help
unomystEz: i'll try to get this to work in arch
unomystEz: im not using any new linux distros
wirechief: you have to dowload the .iso and you can put it to a usb stick or a cd
unomystEz: you mean a live cd?
wirechief: well his kernel is 2.6.30-4 now
wirechief: yes live cd or live usb
wirechief: i like arch it is great
wirechief: but i use kanotix and test the rest
Daskreech: I loved my Matrox millenium :(
unomystEz: i come from freebsd
unomystEz: i really only like it
Daskreech: If only they had realized that there was a Z axis
unomystEz: arch is the closest
unomystEz: and i stop there
wirechief: thats one i havent tested ;)
wirechief: arch is very good
unomystEz: the other linux distros are too loosey goosey
wirechief: but like i said intel issues i dont have in kanotix
wirechief: you need to talk to Kano on #kanotix about how to get his .iso
wirechief: its become kinda a private distro anymore.
wirechief: not kanotix, his scripts are able to install nvidia and ati on ubuntu without a problem
wirechief: he always has the latest wine
wirechief: have you ever done a bootchart ?
unomystEz: nope
wirechief: I tested kanotix vs ubuntu and its faster
wirechief: well most dont have it but he has
wirechief: it makes a graphic image of the boot time and gives the results
wirechief: it took 22 seconds on my lappy to boot kanotix and 25 seconds to boot ubuntu
wirechief: its fast.
unomystEz: cool
wirechief: anyways you decide,,, i visit there regularly
unomystEz: well i just need something to work on... freebsd doesn't have native flash support or support for VirtualBox so im stuck with Linux
unomystEz: ko
unomystEz: ok
unomystEz: i'll check it out, thanks
unomystEz: first i need to get my 2D performance up
wirechief: bye