Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-05-05
peppot: hdmi output on a vaio laptop on ati radeon hd 3470 with the open source radeonhd driver -- possible?
Ivanovic: should be possible, no idea starting with which version
Ivanovic: and no idea what is needed to also output sound via hdmi
Ivanovic: but either in radeon or radeonhd this should be possible (at least in "recent" versions)
Ivanovic: in general you should just try it
peppot: is this is a joke or? does Xorg STILL not support on-the-fly monitor connection/switching?
Ivanovic: you never heard of randr, have you?
Ivanovic: on my laptop (open source intel graphics) i have no problem attaching an external display via vga and switching things around (resolution, mirroring, whatever)
Ivanovic: just using plain and simple xrandr
peppot: Ivanovic, this is via hdmi on radeonhd, and for it to display anything on the lcd tv, I have to restart X
peppot: it detects the display (incorrectly as "SHP 52" when it is a SHARP 37") on connect, but won't output
Ivanovic: what does xrandr say?
peppot: that only works if the hdmi cable is connected on xserver startup
Ivanovic: do *not* assume that it is automatically starting, you might have to start it "by hand" via xrandr
Ivanovic: something like: xrandr --output VGA --auto
Ivanovic: (a plain call of xrandr without param should give you the devices name)
peppot: that worked!
Ivanovic: of course it does
maligor: the display detection strings are from the edid directly
maligor: not from a internal table of all possible displays :P
peppot: however, it'd be very much nicer if this had support in the gnome screen applet
peppot: do you guys know if it's possible to automatically set a virtual resolution for the internal display?
maligor: radeonhd doesn't support xrandr1.2?
peppot: right now it doesn't allow me access to the bottom of my screen
peppot: keine anung...
Ivanovic: maligor: IIRC it does support xrandr1.2
peppot: one problem though, no xv support during this...
peppot: which is pretty much a fatal blow to its usefulness
maligor: what card is it?
peppot: radeon hd 3470
peppot: xv support works for a single screen
Ivanovic: uhm, you have Xv support *only* with the drm module
maligor: you need a very recent radeonhd and yeah.. the drm
Ivanovic: which is currently in .30 rc kernel
peppot: that is strange. -vo xv works when I only have the internal screen active
maligor: does it list modes with xvinfo?
peppot: it's not working
peppot: it's very possible I hadn't tested video playback since I used fglrx
peppot: you're absolutely right. sorry
peppot: no video playback on this p.o.s. driver
maligor: you need drm for it
maligor: and a recent radeonhd
Ivanovic: the general feature matrix already looks rather nice...
Ivanovic: though i will wait till kernel 2.6.30 before testing again
peppot: maligor, stuck at 2.6.27 because of pciehp not existing in later ubuntu kernels
peppot: pcie hotplug for my FW expresscard
maligor: oh.. a pcie native huh
peppot: this laptop with ati graphics must surely have been the worst possible buy I could have made
peppot: maybe if I had waited 2 years.
peppot: sigh sigh sigh
maligor: how so?
maligor: well.. yes, I suppose, the free drivers aren't ready yet
Ivanovic: so for Xv acceleration you have done this? http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd%3Ar6xx_r7xx_branch
peppot: everything works like crap.
peppot: maligor, and fglrx is extremely buggy
Ivanovic: since you *need* the drm module which is (so far) not part of a released "stable" kernel
Ivanovic: turn "desktop effects" off and fglrx will work like a charm
maligor: fglrx is mostly fine for my card
peppot: Ivanovic, not at all too excited to get down to compiling my own video drivers, thank you
Ivanovic: with desktopeffects on kde4 it is really bad
peppot: has a horrible 2sec lag for very basic operations
maligor: err? you want to use desktop effects?
Ivanovic: peppot: without you won't get Xv support in radeonhd till your distribution ships a kernel >=2.6.30
Ivanovic: maligor: on kde4 they are also used for transparance and all the stuff and yeah, this i want to have
maligor: can't stand them myself
Ivanovic: though without desktop effects (kwin or compiz) the system is stable and "just works" nicely over here
peppot: maligor, it's pretty useful
Ivanovic: maligor: in kde you can easily turn off most stuff and just take what you really want (and that is in fact really not much!)
peppot: maligor, for example the "show desktop" functionality of compiz is far superior to gnome's
maligor: because it's animated?
peppot: becausre if you open a new window there, it is included when you restore windows
maligor: compositing isn't really ready yet
Ivanovic: maligor: no, because stuff like showing previews of running apps and stuff like this is possible then
maligor: you need to wait for gallium3d for it work properly
peppot: in gnome's crappy one, if one has opened a new window while "show desktop" is active, one has to manually bring up all hidden windows
peppot: + I find most everything else more snappy than non-compositing metacity
Ivanovic: peppot: in general you will most likely have a nicely working system with fglrx when *not* using compiz and the like
peppot: Ivanovic, I'll try fglrx again
maligor: I read someone had suspend working correctly when using intel graphics on gallium3d with compositing and a opengl app running
maligor: which is pretty impressive
maligor: as for show desktop.. I never use it
peppot: oh yeah, that's really cool stuff. I'm in awe
peppot: seriously. it seems everything is up in flux
peppot: this new standard, that new standard
peppot: I'm sure it's necessary but it means a lot of pain for people not inclined to grabbing latest git and compiling low-level crap all the time
maligor: well, the latest git doesn't really have much yet
Ivanovic: no, it just means that people should just stay with their stable and working version unless they want to go through the possible bugs
Ivanovic: yeah, so far only *some* configurations of various components (software side!) work well together
Ivanovic: and "average joe" will have to rely on his distribution to ship such a config
peppot: Ivanovic, however... for a fairly modern hardware, there rarely is support in _released_ versions
Ivanovic: the stuff going on *is* work in progress and thus should not be included in a distribution meant for "normal users" that just want a stable and working system
Ivanovic: sure, the stuff is *great* stuff, but so far it is not completed
Ivanovic: peppot: uhm, what of your hardware is not supported under linux?
maligor: peppot, actually amd usually has support in the drivers before hardware release now
peppot: Ivanovic, built in mic, graphics card
Ivanovic: the support of the hardware itself is done via kernel and drivers like xorg
maligor: they used to comment the pci-id file with model names even
Ivanovic: fglrx does provide the graphics support, often already at launch day even under linux (regarding amd/ati nowaddays)
peppot: oh and the built in fw controller is a ricoh one, which has pathetic support in any linux kernel
Ivanovic: built in mic: complain to sony!
Ivanovic: built in fire wire: complain at sony!
maligor: or you could hack the alsa driver
peppot: well ricoh is pretty wide spread
peppot: Ivanovic, claiming fglrx has good support is not being honest and serious
maligor: most Intel HDA bios def's are just plain broken
Ivanovic: peppot: right, and do they provide the specs to write the driver?
Ivanovic: peppot: fglrx *has* good support if you don't use composite (desktop effects)
maligor: yeah, fglrx is pretty good these days
peppot: I applaud amd/ati for releasing specs, and I will be buying ati cards from now on... BUT, it's not a very useful experience right now
peppot: Ivanovic, composite has worked for at least two years in an extremely stable fashion on my nvidia desktop
Ivanovic: peppot: it is well known that the open drivers for the lastest cards are not complete yet
Ivanovic: ah, nvidia is a completely different bunch, they basically override everything coming from xorg and simply reimplement it their own way
Ivanovic: where amd/ati tries to rely more on the xorg facilities (which is IMO the better way to go)
maligor: I'll probably switch to radeon/radeonhd once savage2 runs on it :P
Ivanovic: so yeah, amd/ati does eg rely on DRI working, nvidia completely reimplements the stuff to work around any possible problems
maligor: don't suppose you've seen any handy patches to make fglrx drm work against 2.6.30 rcs?
Ivanovic: maligor: is it broken differently than with 2.6.29?
maligor: dunno, haven't tried
maligor: probably, I expect the acpi changes weren't reverted :P
peppot: so you're saying 2.6.27 + fglrx should allow me to have Xv so long as I disable compositing?
maligor: the 2.6.29 patches I've seen were flaky too tho
Ivanovic: peppot: jupp
Ivanovic: at least over here (with some patch from the gentoo bugtracker to make it compile against kernel 2.6.29) i got Xv working with fglrx
root: fglrx 9.4 won't compile against ubuntu's 2.628i
root: er, 2.6.28-11-generic kernel.
Guest39166: anyone have any clues?
maligor: using ubuntu's own packages?
peppot: recovery boot isn't giving my any more consoles, so I can't even paste
peppot: maligor: no, I tried that, but they give a black screen
peppot: ati's own worked once, but now they won't compile in dkms
peppot: let me see if I can get more ttys
maligor: vanilla 2.6.28's work tho
maligor: beats me what ubuntu has put in their kernels
peppot: tried removing all traces of ubuntu's packages
peppot: and then tried 9.4 from ati again
peppot: but it fails to build with dkms
peppot: used to work, can't figure out what's going wrong there.
peppot: if anyone knows how to open a second console?
wirechief_: can anyone comment on a ATI ? is it supported in linux ? integrated ATI Radeon HD3200
mattmatteh: wirechief_, i had one a while ago
mattmatteh: wirechief_, it worked fine, except for video play back, had tearing
mattmatteh: wirechief_, that might be fixed now, not sure
mattmatteh: wirechief_, due to other issues ( crappy bios or crappy hard drive controller, i had to return that board)
mattmatteh: wirechief_, and i dont think the hardware video decoder works, but i dont think thats a huge issue
wirechief_: thanks mattmatteh i got a ad for it with a amd system $399
mattmatteh: i tried what ever vidoe file i could fine and they all played fine, except for the video tearing
wirechief_: from tigerdirect, dont know yet if its a good deal
wirechief_: hmm ok.
mattmatteh: i am a newegg fan
wirechief_: actually i am too.
wirechief_: am a little skeptical yet of this offer
mattmatteh: wirechief_, i have noticed that bios support lately has been worthless
maligor: fglrx has tearing still
mattmatteh: of 2 computers i have, both bios's lock up
wirechief_: its a HP machine though.
maligor: radeonhd wouldn't
mattmatteh: totaly different computers too
maligor: a latop I guess?
mattmatteh: maligor, i never had tearing with fglrx
wirechief_: no its a desktop looking for the ad again.....
mattmatteh: maligor, only with radeon, and i didnt think radeonhd supported that
maligor: depends on card generation I guess
maligor: r500 and earlier used video overlays
maligor: r600 and later use textured video ontop of the 3d engine
maligor: which has tearing issues
mattmatteh: maligor, actaully.... now that i think about it
maligor: I don't really mind it that much myself
mattmatteh: maligor, i think the tearing bug was in xorg ?
mattmatteh: so it would effect fglrx and radeon ?
maligor: radeon/radeonhd should have sync'd textured video
wirechief_: its shown on the bottom right hand corner
maligor: but haven't tried it
wirechief_: i have a x1300 but its not supported anymore.. this machine would be a replacement for a much older hp 533C
wirechief_: the price is interesting though hehe.
maligor: I don't see it
wirechief_: its the hp quad core on the bottom right of the ad
maligor: oh.. the phenom
maligor: yeah, looks nice
maligor: I wonder what's wrong with it
wirechief_: well they said refurbished.... maybe a new HD i dunno
wirechief_: im not enthused with vista ,, but i could resize that with a 500gb drive, leaving plenty of room for my distros
maligor: it's even the later Phenoms that had the TLB issue fixed
wirechief_: so you think for the money it might be a good buy ?
maligor: you can always google for the model
wirechief_: probably not the fastest quad on the street though.
maligor: no, phenom ii's are 3.2GHz
wirechief_: well i knew there were lots of gurus here that had experience with ATI
maligor: you can always stuff another graphics card on it
wirechief_: yeah, it has a pcie on it.
mattmatteh: wirechief_, that comes with windows, i dont think its a good deal :(
wirechief_: i have a hp and they are usually built well.
wirechief_: hahaha mattmatteh
maligor: yeah, I build my own stuff
wirechief_: i agree with that ..
mattmatteh: i dont see hdmi or digital video out
wirechief_: well i use to built my own but am too old now, cant see that well
wirechief_: we dont do a lot of music or video but use the www.pogo.com a lot
maligor: yeah, no dvi sort of sucks
mattmatteh: wirechief_, that only has 1GB of ram ?
wirechief_: so it wouldnt matter if it had issues with media.
mattmatteh: 4 GB for 350 $ ?
maligor: that's what he meant
maligor: shame it has 4x1.0GB and not 2x2.0GB
wirechief_: its the price that caught my eye, then reading what it had seemed pretty good.
maligor: and a bit lowend power
mattmatteh: not bad... but personally i wouldnt ( no digital outputs, and comes with windows == not worth it)
maligor: and no gigabit
mattmatteh: no gigabit... keep looking
wirechief_: its a computer for the wife though.
maligor: I don't even have a gigabit switch
mattmatteh: wirechief_, you would let the one you love use windows ?
wirechief_: i have gigabit cards but...
mattmatteh: would think the wife should get the best ( gnu, digital out... gigabyte)
mattmatteh: GB eth i mean
mattmatteh: maligor, not that you would use it now or all the time...
wirechief_: well the idea is to sell her the idea,, then switch to something else for similar price ;)
mattmatteh: maligor, its just something that is good to have... maybe someday
maligor: and let's not forget: a 1kW Power Supply
maligor: mattmatteh, heh
maligor: wirechief_, a quadcore is maybe a bit ridiculous for a normal desktop tho
wirechief_: looks a little better than my emachine though.
mattmatteh: maligor, 1kW ?
mattmatteh: power supply
mattmatteh: where did you see that ?
maligor: that has a measly 300W
wirechief_: right only 300W would need to replace that if i got a decent graphics card
mattmatteh: maikmerten, thats what i have
mattmatteh: maligor, thats what i have now for my desktop
mattmatteh: maligor, ideally that should be less than 50.
wirechief_: i put a 450 in my emachine.
mattmatteh: maligor, x86 arch is sooo ineffcient
mattmatteh: maligor, i got the smallest power supply i could find
maligor: costs nearly as much as that computer
wirechief_: i have tried talking her into a lappy though, she could probably make better use of it.
mattmatteh: 750 watts ??? are you serious
mattmatteh: is intersted in arm computers that are milliwatts... going green and keepin it cool
maligor: I have 600W on this system
mattmatteh: none of this wasteful x86 junk
mattmatteh: actually i have 330 watt. but thats still 10 times what i would call a modern system
maligor: highend arms aren't milliwatts
maligor: they're in the watt range
mattmatteh: single difit ?
mattmatteh: single digit ?
mattmatteh: < 10 watts ?
wirechief_: now i like the lenovo myself,
wirechief_: GMA4500 hmm dont know anything about it
wirechief_: geeze thats better than what i currently have... 250gb vs my 160gb
wirechief_: must be spring ,,, got me drooling over these ....
wirechief_: thanks maligor and mattmatteh for your opinions
mattmatteh: wirechief_, :)