Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-04-02
Plouj: michaellarabel: what's with the out-of-focus video card photographs?!?!
mwme: its called special effects :P
Plouj: it's called choosing the wrong aperture
maligor: or running out of light :P
Plouj: there's plenty of light
maligor: is that supposed to show exif?
Plouj: wrong link, I just meant to show the picture
Plouj: the exif info from the actual camera is missing
maligor: is that supposed to be informative?-)
maligor: since the image lacks exif
Plouj: it doesn't lack it
Plouj: it's just that gd replaced it by it's own info (I think)
Plouj: CommentCREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 85%0a
Plouj: the image manipulation which Phoronix uses, I suspect
maligor: image.jpg: No Exif data found in the file
maligor: replacing it is functionally the same thing tho, heh
michaellarabel: GD is the PHP image library
nikki93: Hey guys!
maligor: How did you guess we were here!
nikki93: I've checked out the local stores, and I've settled on this config: CPU - Intel Quad Core 2.8 GHZ, Motherboard - ASUS NF790i SLI, RAM - Corsair 4GB DDR3 (with cooler), Graphics card - Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT 1GB DDR3, HDD - 160GB, 1TB SATA.
nikki93: Whaddya think?
nikki93: Linux-friendly enough?
nikki93: I'm getting good prices, I got friends here. :D
nikki93: I'm not going for one of the GTX 2xx yet, because I don't see the need (other than PhysX support?). The prices'll shoot down real fast, and if I need one I could get it later, and the motherboard allows easy upgrade.
maligor: bit small hdd
nikki93: Usig 160GB for 'working', 1TB for mass storage.
maligor: oh.. didn't notice the 1tb
nikki93: 9600 GT good for Linux?
maligor: probably ok
maligor: the midrange cards don't really give great performance tho
redeeman: frankly i'd settle for stability
maligor: oh and.. I'm not sure you want to get a nforce intel board
maligor: I've heard they're rather buggy
maligor: can't really comment on that specific chipset tho
nikki93: Hmm, I've looked around on the internet.
nikki93: Looks stable..
maligor: well, it might be baseless rumors
mwme: when there is a linux driver for the hardware for more than 6 months and the product is widely used, then you can be 95% sure its well supported
mwme: and the GF9600 fits that category
maligor: I was commenting on the NF780i, not the graphics card
mwme: the asus boards are very well supported too, and Corsair DDR3 is yummie :)
maligor: err. 790i
maligor: I'd go with intel chipsets if I was getting a intel cpu
mwme: if you can afford it, then it seems the better choice
Jajo^: hello, my geforce 7800 gs 512 MB doesnt run properly with both fedora x86_64 and windows xp ...both OS have successfully installed nvidia (no legacy) drivers, when restarting x server: monitor goes to standby and no screen appears
Jajo^: opengl and direct3d dont run
maligor: Jajo^, old card?
Jajo^: OpenArena shows 1 fps in menu
mwme: Jajo^: is the PSU strong enough for the card?
Jajo^: well should not be too old for windows xp
Jajo^: i have a geforce 7800 gs 256 mb version here
Jajo^: it runs proper
Jajo^: with both
maligor: psu failure would usually cause a shutdown or reset
maligor: I mean is it brand new or used?
maligor: there's always the possibility that the hw is damaged
Jajo^: its brand new :) and well handled
Jajo^: my power supply is 530 watt
Jajo^: and i 2 hdds 1 rom drive 1 pci sata controller 1 pci soundcard
Jajo^: gfx card bios starts well
Jajo^: screen is well
Jajo^: untill nvidia drivers get to be used
Jajo^: gfx card has xtra power supply slot its plugged in, fans work
Jajo^: temperature of gpu is @ 50°C
nikki93: 790i or not? :)
maligor: I think intel is the lesser evil
maligor: but that's purely personal preference
nikki93: We had that option
maligor: I'd probably buy phenom ii's
nikki93: But the guy suggested nf because he said future 'extensibility' is easier..
nikki93: ati for gfx?
maligor: future extensibility?
maligor: can't recommend ati unless you want to live with the issues
maligor: their release system sucks a bit for drivers
maligor: you get funny known bugs like: xterm might crash X
nikki93: nv then. :)
maligor: maybe they meant the SLI option on nforce
maligor: no case?-)
nikki93: No. :P
nikki93: Who needs pne..
maligor: also you might want to eye psu's
maligor: good ones are relatively expensive
nikki93: I'm sleepy hehe
maligor: stuff like the seasonics
nikki93: yeah, we have good one
nikki93: he said 'atx' or something
maligor: that's just the standard for size and connector
nikki93: me hw noob
nikki93: it had a aship logo I think
maligor: not antec?
nikki93: a ship
nikki93: a ship-like logo
nikki93: duno company
maligor: oh, can't say I know of any such
maligor: quite a lot of 'brand' companies these days tho
raevol: i bought an ATI card when i upgraded a while back on hopes that the open source ati driver would be ready soon
raevol: i'm kicking myself for that, especially watching nvidia release driver after driver
raevol: course the card i bought runs like a dream and was only $100, so maybe i'd be kicking myself either way
nikki93: ATI-support is a scary thing, eh?
raevol: yesh :[
raevol: nikki93: the ship logo probably means it's corsair? they make awesome PSUs
maligor: mm.. so corsair had that logo?
maligor: 4 sails or so?
maligor: I doubt they make psu's
maligor: I wouldn't be surprised if it's just branded seasonics
raevol: well being that i own one :) i'd say they do
maligor: but maybe they do
maligor: yeah, I imagine corsair has good psu's, don't they carter to overclockers and gamer markets?
michaellarabel: Is sourceforge.net down for everyone else?
raevol: i get a blank page
raevol: wait, maybe just started working
raevol: yea it comes up
Ivanovic: sf.net works here
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, works here
nikki93: raevol: Yeah, now I remember. It's Corsair.
nikki93: Multi-monitor is fun?
nikki93: I'm thinking about it.
nikki93: I'm worried about fullscreen apps and games getting messed up though.
raevol: that's what i had a problem with in windows, haven't bothered to try in ubuntu
michaellarabel: Phoronix Update on UT3 Linux should be imminent...
nztal: i'm wondering if anyone can tell me, am i getting the best 2D color and graphics rendering that can be expected from a ATI FireGL v7200? using open source drivers, not the propietary ones if that matters (not entirely sure which one though)
Lightkey: what did he expect? a "yes" or what?
maligor: pretty irrelevant with DVI
Lightkey: that is what I first thought but he said rendering, so depending on the drivers but then he is not sure if it matters which driver he uses?!
nikki93: ATI any good for Linux?
Lightkey: no no, ATI bad, bad dog!
nikki93: Nvidia it is then.
nikki93: Now, you guys think it's worth getting i7 now?
mwme: Lightkey: if you dont care to be helpful, then please stay quiet
Lightkey: why? ask silly questions, get silly answers!
mwme: there are no silly questions. but there is behaviour that is not desired
Lightkey: now you are being silly
mwme: the way how i am understanding michaellarabel, he does not want jerks in here who are dissing newbies
mwme: so either you pick up a question and try to help or you stay quiet
Lightkey: I already talked with him about it earlier, you must have missed it
mwme: this entire "this or that person is too stupid for my taste" has to disappear from entire Freenode
Lightkey: I was being helpful, so what is your problem? I gave him the best advice I could come up with with the info he gave me; from the earlier conversation, he did not sound like a newbie, you are just assuming I wanted to diss him just because of the choice of words? nice one but next time just keep quiet, okay? you are not being helpful
mwme: i will let michaellarabel decide whether your attitude is appropriate for the channel
Lightkey: you make it sound like that is your choice
mattmatteh: wonders what he missed while trying the fedora livecd with nouveau ( by they way it failed and does not work)
raevol: you didn't miss anything
mattmatteh: raevol, :)
raevol: hello :P
michaellarabel: Anaconda and/or btrfs in F11 Beta sure is unstable...
michaellarabel: Hi Deanjo
michaellarabel: How have you been? Burns fully recovered yet?
Deanjo: Good, burns are gone, just got back from Uman, Ukraine the other day
Deanjo: Net access out there sucks :D
michaellarabel: Ah, what were you doing over there?
Deanjo: Visiting cousins.
michaellarabel: How far is Uman from Kiev?
Deanjo: Not sure of distance, it's a fair ways yet North of Uman
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, i just tried the fedora 11 livecd with nouveau and that crashed quickly
michaellarabel: mattmatteh: What NV hardware?
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Ah, I see... I've been wanting to visit and tour Chernobyl.
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 8300 (rev a2)
michaellarabel: mattmatteh: Did it work when running with no KMS?
Deanjo: I guess as the crow flies it's about 160 miles or so
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, first i tried to boot the 64 bit cd, and that locked up before any desktop
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, then i tried the 32 bit version. the desktop came up ( looked like low resolution, might have been stretched too), then a pop up windows appeared telling me about a kernel oops.
mattmatteh: then i attempted to mess with it, but could not find xterm. while looking for a terminal it locked up
mattmatteh: so.. i have to coasters if anyone would like one :P
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, i am assuming the live cd was kms
michaellarabel: mattmatteh: You need to specify an option nouveau.modeset=1 at GRUB to use KMS on LiveCD
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, i tried this https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/2009-03-26
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, i dont recall seeing grub
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, and i had a hard time booting too. either my mainboard is junk ( new asus), the dvd drive is junk (seems to work ?), or the cd is weird
mattmatteh: but i would attempt to boot and it usually would hang at boot, not even a bios screen
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, oh. yeah, should have read that. i assumed that kms was default
mattmatteh: and i burned that cd days before
mattmatteh: but if i was not in kms, then what is wrong
mattmatteh: thinking about trying again, but that was not a fun experience
mattmatteh: booting this asus is not easy
Deanjo: sees a hardware upgrade being done in a few weeks
mattmatteh: Deanjo, your hardware ?
Deanjo: Ya Phenom II 955 and 1 or 2 GTX 275's
Deanjo: Possibly a new 980a board too. Curious on how well NVCC works
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, did you try fedora cd ?
michaellarabel: mattmatteh: Yes, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE3OA
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, oh yes... duh
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, didnt stick since i can not see the videos
mattmatteh: sees lego looking pieces instead of puzzle pieces now
michaellarabel: Argh, 3rd time trying to install btrfs + F11....
Deanjo: here is a scary thought, a new version of a worm like conficker using gpgpu zombies to hack encryption
mattmatteh: michaellarabel, did you test on 32 or 64 bit ?
mattmatteh: Deanjo, why is that scary ?
mattmatteh: Deanjo, then maybe people would realize that they should never user microsoft products
Deanjo: The massive computing power on tap for such an endevour
michaellarabel: mattmatteh: 64-bit Fedora
Deanjo: Wouldn't necessarily have to be limited to windows mattmatteh
mattmatteh: Deanjo, the virus or just what its doing ?
Deanjo: Both really, there are stupid people in all OS's
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i know that
mattmatteh: but one holds the title
mattmatteh: and pats them selves on the back for it too
Deanjo: lol, I wouldn't say that, the advantage of being the targetted OS of choice for that stuff has the side effect of making it's users more paranoid
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Have you happened to try Skype on the iPhone yet?
Deanjo: No, not available in Canada
michaellarabel: Ah. I am thinking of picking up an iPod Touch just for a portable Skype client
Deanjo: I'd be more excited to see things like 90% of the web streaming services (ie: Hulu) be available in Canada
Deanjo: Then Boxee would actually be useful for us
Deanjo: Did you hear about moonlight picking up vdpau support?
michaellarabel: No, I didn't hear that. Have a link?
Deanjo: Yup http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/26/moonlight_nvidia/
Deanjo: Wonder if that's gonna prompt adobe to include it in flash
michaellarabel: Nice, though too late for a news post now :(
Deanjo: I'll just post the info in the forums I guess
mattmatteh: thinks silver light is a joke
mattmatteh: just what we need, another proprietary flash
mattmatteh: and in dot net mono
Deanjo: Well mattmatteh that will not cease to exist in our lifetimes. Closed and proprietary software will be around longer then any of us.
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i am not objected to all proprietary software
mattmatteh: Deanjo, for example, if gta4 came out natively for linux, i would most likely get it asap. ( i dont have it now since i have nothing that can play it)
Deanjo: Until the day comes where process patents, drm and copyprotection become illegal worldwide there will always be a "new gizmo" that is proprietary
mattmatteh: Deanjo, but requiring proprietary flash or msflash to view a simple web page (phoronix.com for example) is just plain wrong
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i dont like that drm, but can understand some of its uses
mattmatteh: Deanjo, what i really dont like is when they require it, and only support one system, usually something microsoft
mattmatteh: so anyone else is out in the cold
mattmatteh: thats my biggest complaint
Deanjo: Well the same could be said about pretty much anything though. What if I don't want to use the tcp/ip, html, etc etc. What if I want to use RipScript and BBS's. You will never please averyone
mattmatteh: for example, i use netflix. i am stuck using dvd's because i dont have a system that can play over the interent
mattmatteh: and with the dvd's, having problems with scratched disc. ( thinking about cancelling netflix till they work with linux)
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i am not sure i agree with that
Deanjo: Then don't also forget you can have a juggernaut like google set one standard and then on a whim change it so everybody else has to follow as well. That's not a great situation as well
mattmatteh: Deanjo, standards are agreed by everyone
Deanjo: All one has to do is look at the many techs and ip that google has acquired over the years and it decides what wil survive and what dies
mattmatteh: one company does not set standards
mattmatteh: they suggest... thats it
Deanjo: In an ideal world that would be true
mattmatteh: else there is an evil monopoly.... wintel ?
Deanjo: but it's not an ideal world
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i kinda see what you are saying....
mattmatteh: but at the same time, i am making the right choise by not playing into that
Deanjo: Right for you maybe, but for a vast majority of people out there the solutions out there work for them.
mattmatteh: i have commented before. i find it really odd/strange that phoronix test and reviews linux and open source, yet used proprietary flash in its reviews. i have seen 0 of those videos. still waiting on an open codec like theora
Deanjo: See but there lies the oxymoron in that logic. A vast majority support flash, it is what the overwhelming majority has chosen for the standard. Therefore in reality it is you who is not conforming to the standards
Lightkey: a vast majority uses Windows, what's your point?
mattmatteh: Deanjo, ok, that makes sense. but there is the problem. there is an open solution, but gnash dont work yet
Deanjo: Well that is the price one pays for "supporting the good fight"
mattmatteh: Deanjo, also, standards are open
mattmatteh: and if they were open, gnash would have somehting
mattmatteh: instead of reverse engineering
Lightkey: Wikipedia uses Theora too
mattmatteh: Deanjo, and i dont really miss flash either. i dont have it here and there is little that i can not do
Deanjo: Sure there are exceptions Lightkey, there will always will be.
mattmatteh: seems that its mostly youtube ( useless)
mattmatteh: and adds ( again, useless)
Deanjo: But you total up all the flash sites vs all the theora sites and I would be willing to bet that even with wikipedia in there theora share of pages is less then .01%
mattmatteh: Deanjo, is that because flash has been around longer ?
Deanjo: Longer and far more supporting apps
mattmatteh: but now we have something new and improved
mattmatteh: time to move on
mattmatteh: also, something that is proprietary can not be a standard
mattmatteh: just doesnt work
Lightkey: Deanjo: you can choose any browser plugin that supports the codec the site uses for their videos to view them, you are not forced to live or die with only one supported, so why not do that?
Deanjo: Unfortunately mattmatteh history says otherwise
Deanjo: mp3 still rules the roost for example
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i use it. but now that vorbis seems plausable, i am switching over
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i understand what you are saying....
Deanjo: there are hundreds of appliances out there that support only propriatary techs like mp2, mpeg4, etc etc
mattmatteh: Deanjo, good conversation... :)
mattmatteh: but ..
mattmatteh: what is really sad is technology is sooooo slow
mattmatteh: for example.... ntsc- > digital
mattmatteh: thats stalled
mattmatteh: same with vorbis
Lightkey: you mean the masses are slow to switch
mattmatteh: and look at the x86 pc
mattmatteh: my new computer that is 6 months old
mattmatteh: looks like my parents 286 did in 1980 ish
Lightkey: there is still an A20 gate, for whatever reason :-)
Deanjo: Ya , it is, but for a standard to take over a competing tech that is very established already it's just not enough to be "as good as". You have to have that open tech massacre it's prop tech on every aspect that is visible to the end use.
mattmatteh: Lightkey, its not the masses, its those that provide
Lightkey: you get what the masses want
mattmatteh: Lightkey, they dont provide new....
mattmatteh: Lightkey, sometimes the masses just want it to work
mattmatteh: Lightkey, that can make sense to keep the old, since its established
Deanjo: Good chat anyways, got to go eat now, thanks for the debate without turning into a evangelist :P
mattmatteh: but really.... we need to boot to 16 bit 286 mode ?
mattmatteh: Deanjo, yup... good chat :)