Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-03-11
Kano: hi michaellarabel , did you install a usefull os on the x58 system?
Kano: also no changes to pts git, not even the hotfix i gave you...
ech0s7: where can i find ati-catalyst 9.4 rc ?
superdump: i would have thought if it were available, either on ati.amd.com or there should be a link to sign up for the pre-release stuff in that article that was published a few days ago
tha: hi. im trying to get my x1400 running with radeonhd, X starts - but its not possible to run xvideo (no adaptors present)
orak3l: can somebody tell me where to get ati-driver-installer-8.60_RC1-x86.x86_64.run? ive searched the web already with no success. ive tried the torrents too, but there are no seeders
Kano: michaellarabel: you added the sg hotfix,but it still does not finish when i run the benchmark, how to debug that? it writes
Kano: Average: 127.53 Frames Per Second
Kano: and then it stops
michaellarabel: Yeah, I refreshed the Git server this morning.
michaellarabel: What do you mean by not finish?
Kano: it does not return to menu or when you start it from console it does not return to it. it just stays at that point
Kano: after the average value
Kano: when i check with htop, pts runs with 99% on one core at this time
Kano: i guess it is in same kind of endless loop
Kano: busy waiting for something
michaellarabel: I'll need to run it myself Kano to see if Ican reproduce it then
Kano: please do
Kano: sg usually runs only with 32 bit
michaellarabel: I will soon as I turn on a test system next
Kano: could you install linux on the x58 system?
michaellarabel: Not yet
Kano: send it to me, i am sure i could do ;)
Kano: maybe you have got a differnt sata controller
Kano: as when you have got a ide connector, then you have got a sata connector in most cases from that controller chip too
Kano: one ich10 or that connector should at least work
cxo: Any idea if we will see linux support for caustic graphics? http://vr-zone.com/forums/403168/new-graphics-player-onboard-to-fight-nvidia-and-amd.html
michaellarabel: cxo: I am contacting them...
cxo: good stuff
raevol: wow nice
raevol: wonder what the price will be
cxo: "Did you know that the average render time today for a single ray-traced image at film resolution is over three hours?"
cxo: they say their 2nd gen card coming out next year will be 200x faster
raevol: yea saw that
cxo: thats less than 1minute for a frame
raevol: "patent pending" on their algorithm
cxo: great, 20yrs before the rest of the world is allowed to use it
raevol: well, i guess if they don't patent it someone else will
cxo: i'm all for the underdog, Nvidia and ATi are just overweight and lazy these days
raevol: for sure
cxo: sadly, i've been using linux for so long, i've forgotten what playing games is like, i'm not even interested anymore
cxo: But if a new Hitman or Splinter Cell or Metal Gear Solid comes out, i'll have to try it out
raevol: yea i haven't had time for games, but i've definitely picked up an interest in them again
raevol: i can't be bothered to boot into windows though, that's why i'm keeping tabs on virtualbox
raevol: they have opengl working
cxo: basic dx8 and dx9 even
cxo: but basically if you could run it under wine, it would work in VBox, since its the same wine3d engine
cxo: so no point on a VBox installation just for games
raevol: well, i disagree
raevol: wine has to emulate the entire operating system, vbox just has to emulate the hardware (which works fantastic) and the directx->opengl conversion
raevol: much smaller room for error
cxo: there is no directx->opengl done by VBox, its using wine3d dlls
raevol: but that's the only part of wine it relies on
cxo: why emulate the entire OS if you dont need to?
raevol: if you run the game solely on wine, the game has to interact with the rest of wine
raevol: well wine is in a sense "emulating" the whole OS, it has to handle all calls made by the game, not just the rendering ones
cxo: of course, it does, whatever the game asks for
cxo: but Vbox has to run the entire OS, which means background MMU tasks, scheduling etc..
raevol: right, an if wine's implementation of those things is incomplete, it causes issues
raevol: right but at least VBox will just fundamentally work, since it doesn't run a reverse engineered implementation
cxo: except for 3d rendering
raevol: i see your point though
cxo: have you tried GTA4 on Vbox? it doesnt work on wine because of some funky .net stuff
raevol: i haven't, is it opengl?
cxo: no, its dx9/dx10
raevol: it probably won't work them
raevol: then*, especially the dx10
cxo: why not?
raevol: wined3d doesn't really work in Vbox yet
cxo: oh, i just tried out dxdiag, and that ran fine, so i just assumed...
raevol: it did? did all the tests show the spinning box?
cxo: all passed
raevol: what wined3d did you use?
cxo: the patches from the vbox tracker
raevol: gah i must have used the wrong ones
raevol: there's several linked on that ticket
cxo: well your supposed to build the dlls yourself
cxo: i think some guy posted links to his homepage with built dlls
raevol: yea i think i used those
raevol: crap i'll have to try this when i get home
raevol: did you build them yourself?
cxo: i did both, i tried the ones on the website first, dx7 failed, dx8, dx9 passed, then i built my own and dx7 passed too
raevol: man, i really want to try that now
raevol: later cxo
cxo: We need to start a charity, OLPH, One LinuxBox Per Hacker
cxo: needs a new box
cxo: preferable 1u please
bkero: Heh, tiny rackables
cxo: dual slot pci-e expansion, 1x PCI-E 2.0 16x
bkero: has some old 2u crap that work is throwing out
cxo: 2U = 2 Ugly
bkero: 1U = YOU're ugly
cxo: just installed C&C-RA3
cxo: seems to work
cxo: the 7600gs, athlon 4200x2 is struggling though
cxo: sighs thinking about the perfectly fine hd4870 on the table
Kano: why dont you use it
cxo: Its not like ATi works under Linux
Kano: cxo: basically it works, just not with xserver 1.6
cxo: The last ATi card i had that worked with wine was an Radeon 8500LE, some... 5years ago
michaellarabel: Kano: Do you recall where ALSA stores the name of the sound card(s) in use? I thought there was a place within /sys/ but I don't recall.
Kano: $ cat /proc/asound/cards
Kano: do you mean that?
michaellarabel: No. That just reports Intel HDA. I mean similar to where you run alsamixer -c 0 and see the chip. Like Analog Devices AD1984 for instance.
Kano: you want the codec?
michaellarabel: Ah. Did find it within /proc/asound/cardX/codec#0
Kano: head -1 /proc/asound/card0/codec*/*|head -2
Kano: it is not that easy,best look at the alsa script from #alsa
Kano: do you kwno that?
michaellarabel: Which alsa script?
Kano: the script they always ask to execute
michaellarabel: cat /proc/asound/card*/codec\#* > $TEMPDIR/alsa-hda-intel.tmp 2> /dev/null they seem to have checks running off the same file
Kano: because it has some extra cases for hda, ac97
Kano: if you only check on new hardware you dont see the ac97 case
Kano: or old soundblaster
michaellarabel: On non-Intel systems is /proc/asound/cards more descriptive than just "HDA Intel"
Kano: yes it shows my sblive 5.1
michaellarabel: Can you pastebin how it's outputted?
Kano: thats the older sb variante with hw mixing
michaellarabel: oooo got news on Caustic
Kano: maybe add a cron job to update the git repo
Kano: it always reports up-to-date
Kano: funny, you wrote about linpus *g*
Kano: i met em on cebit and they even wanted to see kanotix + splashtop running from usb drive *g*
cxo: wat tis this news
Kano: but the cd i got was not really good, it did not boot on my testsystem with g31
Kano: i guess it is only tested on those acer atom systems
cxo: hates atom
cxo: its slow, its power hungry, and its expensive
Kano: well i am no fan of it
redeeman: atom itself isn't really too power hungry
Kano: if you dont need to compile then it migh be ok however
cxo: thats like having an STD and saying sex itself isnt that dangerous
redeeman: no it's not
cxo: Atom sucks Nano balls
cxo: Nano FTW!
cxo: Even Toms did a review showing an underclocked athlon was faster, used less power and cheaper than an Atom setup
Kano: its all about marketing
cxo: considering you can get AM2, itx boards, why ever get an Atom
redeeman: cheaper to purchase maybe
redeeman: but far more costly to produce
redeeman: and with much less profit
cxo: oh yes, we must buy hardware that is cheapest to produce
cxo: who would ever buy anything that was cheapest to buy
redeeman: before the atom boards get more expensive they were SHIT cheap
redeeman: 44usd for the atom board
redeeman: you don't get no am2 cpu + board for that
redeeman: that's btw, bought in europe
Kano: well it is slow as hell..
redeeman: so 25% cheaper in usa
cxo: makes Atom suck his balls
Kano: ion plattform is dead before arrival because when it would be out then intel will combine gpu parts into the cpu
Kano: so all you get is mainly only intel gfx
cxo: 32nm i7 will have the gpu built in, will be definitely interesting to benchmark
cxo: has too much money in his restoration project for new computer toys this year
Kano: do you think the i7 will?
Kano: i dont
Kano: the consumer chip is most likely called i5
cxo: oh i dont know the name, but its on the same Nehalem arch
Kano: i5 is like i7 but only 2 ddr3 channels
Kano: and one will have got integrated gfx too
cxo: sounds enough for me
cxo: ddr3 needs 3 sticks for a full channel right?
redeeman: that question didn't make sense
Kano: yes, but most benchmarks are not much faster with 3 instead of 3
redeeman: i7 needs 3 sticks
Kano: err 2
Kano: it does not really _need_ 3
redeeman: no but for using all 3 channels :P
Kano: only for triple channel, it can use dual channel too
redeeman: 3 channels owns
redeeman: 6 sticks ;D
Kano: intel only adds 4 sockets
cxo: i dont get why things are all getting integrated again, really early boxes had everything, sound, video, cpu etc.. built into one card
Kano: must be tricky to use more than 4
cxo: then everything split up
cxo: now everything is being stuck together again?
cxo: i guess the manufacturing process has helped along the way
cxo: you can now have 2x 8 core i7 chips in the same space as my Athlon, so why not stick everything together
Kano: i am not fully sure, but the gfx part is somehow "added", it is not on the same dye
cxo: so i guess we're going to get a new graphics bus
Kano: just like the quad cores from intel
cxo: its not like they are going to try access pci-e straight from the CPU
Kano: i will not be faster that way
Kano: just cheaper
redeeman: it could be faster
Kano: currently you need a north+southbridge
redeeman: they can clock it higher that way
Kano: redeeman: intel onboard was never fast compared to other solutions
cxo: whatever happened to larranbee
cxo: its all quite now
Kano: i think they do not really want to sell it as gfx card only
cxo: Intel is Evil
Kano: more like application accellerators
redeeman: that was the plan yes
Kano: to compete against the cuda cards from nvidia
redeeman: they should come in quickpath versions too
cxo: Evilness scale, Microsft > Google > Intel > Apple
redeeman: crapple is much worse than any of those others
Kano: i just think that that chip might now be fast enough for standard 3d accelleration. because "real" gfx cards use much more parallelism
Kano: as they are basically full pentium cores maybe intel wants to show some apps which user raytracing
cxo: Pentium rocked ass baby
Kano: do you think 16 or 32 pentiums will be faster with crysis or another next gen game?
cxo: i think it would be the same as a modern high end gfx card, or a little less
redeeman: kano it's not just standard pentiums
redeeman: it has more floating point power than any nvidia card
Kano: the highend gfx chips have a higher transistor count than i7
redeeman: it has 512bit vector instructions
Kano: redeeman: could change with dx11, not fully sure
redeeman: every core can do 16 single precision floating point operations each cycle
Kano: well no test systems out there yet, would be interesting...
cxo: i think 32 HD4870 cores at 32nm would be way faster
redeeman: i don't think you realize what kind of comparisin it is you are doing
cxo: yeah so along those lines, nvidia could just make a 32 core version of the geforce 256, that card really rocked
Kano: there are not only 32 shader cores, there are over 200...
cxo: no not shaders, the entire chip
redeeman: but lol
cxo: fuk shaders, who uses that crap even
Kano: 240 shader, 32 render, 80 texture engine has a gtx 28x
redeeman: that's the most stupid thing you ever said
redeeman: because that would be like comparing 32 larrabee cards to a HD4870 card
redeeman: and explain how it is different
Kano: those are special purpose cores, in 3 variants, intel uses always the same core, much more complex,but fewer
cxo: shader processors are just execution units just like how a regular has vector registers, alus etc... the P4 had 4 vector processors, the G4 had 12, etc.. so if the larrabee is a duplication of the entire Pentium core, it will have multiple of each execution unit
cxo: ^regular cpu
redeeman: larrabee is not a standard pentium core
Kano: yes, but can you say which variant is faster?
redeeman: it's merely based on it
Kano: yes it has some extra tricks in it
cxo: 32 core HD4870 FTW
redeeman: but the HD4870 is already comprised of many cores
michaellarabel: Caustic Graphics: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzEzNg
cxo: what do you guys use for media player?
Deanjo: A Pioneer 8-track
Kano: 160 shaders for 4870
cxo: i'm getting tired of amarok
Kano: then use itunes with wine ;)
Deanjo: Ya saw that caustic graphics card michaellarabel, flashbacks of Physx's cards and Voodoo's
Kano: michaellarabel: please test sg, maybe you find the error.
Kano: bye for now
Deanjo: Can't see it being a competitor to nv or ati though, still required a videocard to function
cxo: i think my balls can be a competitor to ATi
cxo: Isnt Nvidia still crying about X58 even? Good time to start a graphics company it hink
Deanjo: Well that's true, they are just as rash red :P
cxo: hmm not at the moment!
Deanjo: Caustic reminds me too much of another start up company crying "Buy us out please!!!!"
cxo: it all depends on how money hungry the CEO is
Deanjo: Heh, they all are money hungry, did you take a look at where the head honcho's come from?
cxo: No, i heard it was an a mix up of a lot of X big name employees
Deanjo: Ya they are former Autodesk, Apple, ATI, Intel and NVIDIA employees
Deanjo: Sort of sounds like the make up of the 3dlabs guys
cxo: SGI even once upon a time
Deanjo: Headlines today, 6 months down the line you will read "bought out by....."
cxo: So they're either going to get blown away by the money they make, not know how to manage it and go bankrupt or get fooled into a big project by the likes of Microsoft and become worthless and barely survive for decades to come
Deanjo: I remember the hype when these came out too http://www.mc.com/products/boards/accelerator_board2.aspx
cxo: tungston is doing a gallium drive for the Cell BE
cxo: i wonder if it works yet
Deanjo: Then there was other things like mpeg2/4 decoding cards which never really caught on, then there was the idea of popping out a cpu on a multiple cpu socketboard and popping in a cell or gpu or dedicated DSP into the same socket.....
Deanjo: It's pretty hard to get excited with products like this. They often promise big results only to fade away within a year
redeeman: pls2gief venture capital!!!!
Deanjo: lol, ya like that is easy to come by in todays economy for a tech firm
cxo: the mpeg decoding cards did get popular, but CPUs got faster
cxo: so what plans for the summer Deanjo
Deanjo: They never really caught on. Mpeg 2 cards basically there was the Creative labs card which was a knock off of the Hollywood + card from sigma designs.
Deanjo: The only mpeg 4 card was a sigma design card as well and died pretty quickly
Deanjo: Plans for the summer? Lots of beer
cxo: why does that require summer
Deanjo: Pretty hard to think about summer when today it hit -58 C with windchill
cxo: jeez, its only some -15degC here
cxo: wind is moving fast, 15m/s
cxo: I'm gearing up to rebuild the front end of the Jag
Deanjo: Ya we are supposed to get into the +4 range in a couple of days for the rest of next week
cxo: planning a mad road trip in V12, maybe to BC even
michaellarabel: Hi evocallaghan
evocallaghan: Looks like the cats out the bag and is going around like whild fire now
evocallaghan: Thus I though I would keep you informed
evocallaghan: Maybe something a bit higher quality info from us for your readers ;)
evocallaghan: Got a min ?
michaellarabel: Actually was getting ready to call it a night.
evocallaghan: Oh, no worries
evocallaghan: up to you when to you really
evocallaghan: You know where we are to get something properly written up