Phoronix IRC Log: 2009-02-24
scotty^: Hi all
scotty^: Has anyone managaed to get Adobe Flash Player 10 working in Iceweasel on Knoppix 5.1.1?
scotty^: Has anyone managaed to get Adobe Flash Player 10 working in Iceweasel on Knoppix 5.1.1?
scotty^: G'day :) Where is .ar?
rainbyte: scotty^, hi
rainbyte: scotty^, .ar = Argentina
scotty^: Cool - what time is it there?
scotty^: is in Brisbane on the East Coast of Australia, currently 18:10
scotty^: Anyway, do you have any experience with Knoppix 5.1.1 ?
rainbyte: scotty^, here it is 5:16 am GMT -3
rainbyte: scotty^, just a bit with Knoppix,a re you having problems?
scotty^: I'm trying to get Adobe Flash Player 10 working in Iceweasel on Knoppix 5.1.1?
scotty^: I can get Flash Player 9 working easily, but would like the newer version.
rainbyte: scotty^, well, that not so hard
rainbyte: scotty^, you have to download flash player from adobe's website
rainbyte: and then you uncompress it (i think is a tar.gz)
rainbyte: at the end yo copy the plugin to the firefox's plugins folder
rainbyte: I think the correct folder is /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/
rainbyte: scotty^, do you have vitina in Australia?
scotty^: with Flash Player 9 I just extract the files from the tar.gz and then run flashplayer-installer in a console session.
scotty^: I don't think so - what is vitina?
rainbyte: scotty^, it is a cereal food based on semolina
rainbyte: I think it is only produced here in Argentina, by Molinos Rio de La Plata S.A.
rainbyte: scotty^, I'm trying to find something similar in other countries
scotty^: semolina is easy enough to come by here, but I've never seen or heard of a cereal based on it.
rainbyte: mm, scotty^ I am not sure if I'm explain myself in the right way
rainbyte: scotty^, well, this is Vitina: http://www.molinos.com.ar/NuestrasMarcas/Vitina/marca.asp
rainbyte: (is in spanish)
vadi21: What would be a similarly specced nvidia card to ATI Radeon HD 4670 ?
maligor: 9600 I guess
vadi21: ok thanks
maligor: the numbering for the second number is pretty similar
DasKreech: How is everyone?
raevol: how are you?
DasKreech: Not bad
DasKreech: trying to figure out the AMD Dragon platform
raevol: ah haven't heard of it, is it new?
DasKreech: Is it just the Spider Platform with each part +1 ?
DasKreech: From what I have read it sounds a lot like Spider
DasKreech: raevol: you Know Spider?
raevol: nope :[ i've never used a system like that
DasKreech: It's not a System :)
DasKreech: It's a platfrom
DasKreech: Like Centrino
raevol: my mistake
DasKreech: It's a mish mash of things that together are Spider
raevol: how do the phenom processors compare to intel's equivalent?
DasKreech: assuming you avoid the TLB bug
DasKreech: They are within shooting distance if not spitting distance
DasKreech: I just want to know if Dragon is the base of AMD's planned marriage of CPU and GPU
raevol: ah, not sure, bet someone around here knows though
mattmatteh: DasKreech, dont recall seeing anything about dragon. but i kinda slowed down on reading since i got my new 4850e. if dragon is new.... you wont be able to use it for at least a year..... wait for the bugs to get worked out
maligor: 4850e huh.. how cool does it run?
mattmatteh: maligor, forgot how to check
mattmatteh: there is a thread i posted
DasKreech: mattmatteh: That was the time period between the release and announcement of SPider ?
maligor: with a IR thermometer ofcourse ;)
mattmatteh: gave details about how cool it runs
mattmatteh: maligor, yes, thats exatly what i used
mattmatteh: maligor, you can search for post by me
mattmatteh: i would do it now, but the case is closed up
maligor: I thought about buying one but it looks like one of my older cpu's is upto 1080p anyway
maligor: (with vpdau)
mattmatteh: DasKreech, well, youi buy when you think its good. didnt amd have a problem with the first phonoms ?
DasKreech: Yeah TLB
redeeman: michaellarabel: erhm, you write that ocz core v2 is SLC, that cannot be true?
mattmatteh: maligor, what is your older cpu ?
maligor: umm.. 1.8GHz Athlon64
maligor: single core
DasKreech: yeah mattmatteh But I can't know if it's good if I have no idea what it is :)
mattmatteh: really likes the 4850e
mattmatteh: DasKreech, ask in the phorums
maligor: yeah, they're cheap and have good performance
mattmatteh: maligor, i am more interested in efficiency
mattmatteh: and the 4850e seems to be the best
maligor: that's much harder to measure :P
mattmatteh: why ?
maligor: ARM cores probably have better efficency
DasKreech: mattmatteh: Is that what they are called ? Phorums. That's pretty good
DasKreech: maligor: agreed
mattmatteh: maligor, ohhh
maligor: I just hope they'll make a barebone Cortex-A9 with a few sata ports and stuff ;)
mattmatteh: maligor, definately. i stuck my foot in my mouth. i hate x86. but thanks the the evil microsoft.... :(
DasKreech: Cell is probably a better power/efficiency as well
maligor: DasKreech, I doubt it
redeeman: michaellarabel: also, did you try .29's SSD mode for those tests? and also, which io scheduler? and was it using DIRECTIO or not?
mattmatteh: DasKreech, hhaha... oops.. phorums... :P i didnt realize i did that. i was doing a few other things at the moment..
mattmatteh: DasKreech, huh ?
mattmatteh: DasKreech, no
maligor: I don't think the Cell design principles are ... power efficency :P
DasKreech: I never said that
DasKreech: I said for the ratio of power that you get out of it
mattmatteh: DasKreech, the ps3 when it came out was a beast for wasting power. not sure about the break down though
DasKreech: You can do things on Cell that are not possible on x86
DasKreech: It got listed as a Green appliance
mattmatteh: DasKreech, yeah, but the cell is soooo limited. where can i find a cell computer. (an x86 with cell is stupid, thats 2 wastefull cpu's)
maligor: heh.. green appliance
DasKreech: It started burning power if you had F@H on all the time
DasKreech: Which I guess would happen if you did that on your CPU and GPU on your computer as well
mattmatteh: all though, i believe most other cpus that are not x86 are more efficient
DasKreech: mattmatteh: not as limited as you think biggest issue is that you can't reuse x86 stuff
maligor: DasKreech, well.. cell just has the spe's for stream processing
mattmatteh: DasKreech, reuse x86 stuff ? i dont understand
maligor: it's rather similar to the gpu configurations from nvidia and amd I guess
maligor: except without the bus latency
DasKreech: mattmatteh: You have to rewrite fairly low level libraries to make use of Cell
DasKreech: And not get everything running on an in order PPC
maligor: AMD has a great opportunity to make something much better than cell ;P
mattmatteh: DasKreech, i still dont understand.
DasKreech: :-) Fine
DasKreech: gets back to asking if anyone has any idea what Dragon is about
maligor: DasKreech, not much really
DasKreech: maligor: Doesn't everyone?
maligor: DasKreech, no
DasKreech: you mean the marriage of CPU and GPU ?
maligor: nvidia is impotent when it comes to x86
mattmatteh: DasKreech, sorry. i run gentoo on my ibook, it works fine and thats powerpc. and there are users that are working with linux on cell. i dont know what the big deal is with x86, if microsoft goes away, x86 will go with it
maligor: and intel has crappy 3d :P
DasKreech: mattmatteh: Ha ha unlikely
mattmatteh: DasKreech, why ?
DasKreech: It will get less important
DasKreech: but unlikely it will go away
mattmatteh: DasKreech, there are alot of embedded devices that are arm.
mattmatteh: and with the netbook boom
maligor: DasKreech, anyway, dragon and spider names are pretty silly if you ask me
DasKreech: Yes and there is a lot of knowledge about x86
mattmatteh: and look at intel attempting with atom
maligor: DasKreech, AMD just applies them for marketing I guess
mattmatteh: going smaller and more efficient
DasKreech: maligor: maybe maybe not I don't think it will bother me that much if it works
maligor: atom isn't really that efficent
mattmatteh: microsoft gone... who needs is, when there is arm and powerpc allready effifiecent
DasKreech: It's not like I'll wake up in the morning crying to the morning sun that I have a computer with a silly named technology in it
mattmatteh: maligor, my point eexacly, its x86
maligor: also it's a standard intel socket part
DasKreech: maligor: It's the new Centrino
maligor: they need to go full SoC
maligor: DasKreech, hardly
mattmatteh: would not wast money on an atom cpu when an arm could so better
maligor: atom is pretty slow
DasKreech: maligor: yes it is
DasKreech: Centrino was a name given to a mishmash of Intel parts used together
DasKreech: Spider is the same thing
maligor: oh.. you mean spider/dragon
DasKreech: I'm thinking Dragon is the same but I can't tell
maligor: yeah, it's a name for a bunch of parts
maligor: I thought you meant atom
DasKreech: What makes AMD able to make a better Cell?
DasKreech: and not Intel or Motorola etc
maligor: intel's rather stuck
maligor: they want to put x86 in everything
maligor: AMD can simply put a gpu core onto the same die as the cpu and have fantasticily low latencies
maligor: assuming the performance is there, it could work very well for gpgpu
maligor: well.. not simply :P
maligor: but you get the idea, they have plenty of tech in the area
maligor: currently if you want to write a cuda/brook/opencl application, you want to avoid switching between cpu and gpu
maligor: cell's spe's don't have that issue
DasKreech: But AMD's solution is swappable in the mid term isn't it?
maligor: but err... motorola?
maligor: you mean freescale?
maligor: I don't think motorola makes cpu's anymore
maligor: freescale makes mostly embedded stuff I think
DasKreech: Freescale :)
DasKreech: yeah basically I was saying what stops any Proc maker from making something better than Cell?
mattmatteh: DasKreech, microsoft and intel monopoly
mattmatteh: thats what stops alot of other companies
mattmatteh: from anything
mattmatteh: whats sad is thats holding back technology
Wyatt: I'm going to have to disagree, I think...
Wyatt: Money is probably the biggest factor holding back technology. After that, it's the consumer.
DasKreech: Star Trek Reference ?
Wyatt: No, just basic economics.
mattmatteh: Wyatt, no company would make a chip or device if they didnt think they could sell it. so long as microsoft and intel have a monopoly, no company will think they can sell something that is not x86, because they think no one will buy it.
mattmatteh: partialy true
mattmatteh: my brother was interested in a netbook, but he wants atom so he can run the sluggesh windows operating system. but the arm is soooo much more efficient, and wiht linux, you can get more done.
mattmatteh: Wyatt, since i am not dependent on x86 or microsoft, i can choose what is better
Wyatt: ARM. MIPS. TSMC. IBM. Four companies that are still in business and push out many processors that aren't x86. But at what cost?
mattmatteh: Wyatt, those are all used for embedded devices or servers. they would not make a good desktop
mattmatteh: or could, but i would have to hope it works, and it would only be me
redeeman: mattmatteh: ARM chips are very good for desktops
Wyatt: There's no technical reason that they couldn't be used in a desktop machine. Not at a high level.
redeeman: the only thing they arent for is winblows
maligor: Wyatt, ARM doesn't make processors
Wyatt: No, they farm that out.
maligor: can't comment on MIPS or TSMC
Wyatt: But the major problem is still in the economics or it.
maligor: Marvell, Freescale, Atmel...
Wyatt: A foundry is Expensive. Foundry services are Expensive.
maligor: they used licensed stuff mostly tho
mattmatteh: redeeman, can you find me a link of a desktop that uses arm ?
redeeman: mattmatteh: because winblows doesn't run on it, it's not marketed for desktop, that's the ONLY reason
maligor: mattmatteh, beagleboard.org
redeeman: but the ARM is significantly more effecient than x86
mattmatteh: maligor, beagalboard is useless
redeeman: such as the cortex A8 and A9
Wyatt: At some things, at any rate
mattmatteh: so there are no boards
maligor: no, not really
mattmatteh: my point exactly
maligor: there's some interesting cores coming up tho
mattmatteh: i searched a long time before buying my 4850e, really i was going to get a powerpc or something non x86. but reality is, that is sad times and intel and mircosoft own the desktop :(
mattmatteh: i searched for months
mattmatteh: i gave up
maligor: the reason there aren't desktop boards is because of microsoft
maligor: I guess you could run WinCE on one but..
mattmatteh: maligor, yup, and intel too
redeeman: intel has the most powerful chips, but 99% of desktop computers doesn't need that
mattmatteh: redeeman, i would rather have efficiency
Wyatt: I think one major problem that ARM-based designs have currently is that they more or less require a DSP or external ASIC for non-integer computation.
redeeman: for all those desktops that only need some video decoding, browsing, office, and email, an ARM solution is perfectly fast enough
mattmatteh: redeeman, i have a fast computer now, and it is mostly idling
redeeman: and consumes a tiny percentage of what an intel based solution does
maligor: Wyatt, the Cortex A9 has VFP
maligor: err.. A8
maligor: A9 probably has it too
mattmatteh: redeeman, if you know of a board that would make a nice desktop, ill take it
Wyatt: Yeah, the Cortex looks like it might change that finally
redeeman: mattmatteh: there are no boards except beagleboard
mattmatteh: redeeman, i was following genesi, they say they suggest they are working on something
Wyatt: But for a long time, that's been a major issue.
redeeman: unfortunately TI and imagination technologies are idiots
maligor: most of the ARM cores aren't meant for desktop use anyway
redeeman: so it's impossible to use the 3d hardware and dsp properly
mattmatteh: redeeman, beagalboard is a disappointment
mattmatteh: kinda useless
redeeman: how so?
maligor: beagle's pretty much a evaluation kit
maligor: except really cheap
mattmatteh: evaluation, not desktop or lew end desktop
Wyatt: I think it really depends on what you consider "for desktop use"
mattmatteh: something i can plug in and use
maligor: you can use it for a really slow desktop
mattmatteh: without having to mess with it
redeeman: maligor: it's actually quite fast
mattmatteh: speed wasnt the ussue
maligor: redeeman, relative
mattmatteh: beagalboard doenst have ethernet, no digital audio out.
redeeman: yeah lol, that's insanely ugly with beagleboard
maligor: redeeman, ofcourse I remember when I was using a 286 :P
redeeman: also the reason i don't have one
mattmatteh: so i would have to buy a sound card, ethernet card, and for full hdmi, a graphcis card
Wyatt: I wouldn't say that most desktop tasks "require" anything beyond integer performance.
redeeman: maligor: 500mhz IS enough for the tasks 99% of people wanna do
redeeman: and software that requires more, without a reason, must simply be fixed
mattmatteh: dragged the 286 to the trash, with the 5 1/4 floppy
maligor: redeeman, yeah, they should just get the price down to maybe $80 with case and it'd be fantastic
Wyatt: Well, SHOULD be ehough. Programmers have this funny habit of expanding to fill any resources available.
redeeman: write new desktop software then
Wyatt: Which was great when we were predicting 25GHz in a couple years.
redeeman: linux runs perfectly fine on that performance class
maligor: the next beagle will have the 256MB RAM versions too
redeeman: we should have a few gigs of ram
redeeman: ram is really one of the things we want lots of
redeeman: especially considering it's price
Wyatt: That's probably why the price on it bottomed out. And then bottomed out some more.
Wyatt: And continues to create new basement levels. :/
Wyatt: Ah, beat me to it. I wish I typed faster.
mattmatteh: linux runs fine with little ram. but..... i use tmpfs alot, that minimises the need for a hard drive
mattmatteh: and keeps the speed up
Wyatt: It's pretty unfortunate that SSDs are such a mess right now.
mattmatteh: that would be nice, an arm with alot of ram
mattmatteh: then just netboot, or boot off usb
mattmatteh: and have the root fs in ram
mattmatteh: just ~ on external
redeeman: i want a cortex A8 or A9 with ~32GB ram
Wyatt: Though I can't imagine anyone ever expected NAND flash to be a sustainable solution for them.
Wyatt: I want a Cray T3C and a small power plant.
mattmatteh: steps out for a while
Wyatt: You know, it's pretty interesting seeing thin clients^w^w cloud computing hailed as the next big thing lately.
DasKreech: Wyatt: IBM must be pissed
Wyatt: Naah, they have not one, not two, but Three game console makers eating from their hand right now.
Wyatt: Also, IBM has been moving toward a service model for years now. AMD and nVidia might be bumming a little, though.
DasKreech: Wyatt: yes but at least one of those consoles is running a custom chip that IBM intended to sell for high end computer and is being insanely undersold by it's customer and one time partner
DasKreech: That's gotta suck
Wyatt: I think it's still working well for them, though. You have to admit, Roadrunner is pretty amazing.
Wyatt: So...fglrx with a 2.6.27 kernel...?
Ivanovic: should work
Wyatt: It's most definitely not. Something about pci_find_slot...
Ivanovic: sounds interesting, maybe a function missing in your kernel?
Wyatt: Well, yeah. It was deprecated two years ago...
Ivanovic: we are talking about a *proprietary* driver
Ivanovic: how could it take care of mundane stuff like "deprecated symbols"?!?
Ivanovic: okay, got to head off to bed, good luck making the driver work
redeeman: Wyatt: but isn't it still activatable in the kernel?
redeeman: lol @ amd though for still using it
Wyatt: What module? I built and inserted the pci_slot module and the have UNUSED_SYMBOLS built in.
Wyatt: If it's not those, I have no idea.
redeeman: there is a kernel config option to keep those deprecated functions in
Wyatt: Yeah, CONFIG_UNUSED_SYMBOLS :)
tronad0r: i want to do a read/write iozone test
tronad0r: but in benchmark option it asked only for one option at time
tronad0r: i try separate the options with whitespace but don't work
Deanjo: michaellarabel, if your still awake, http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64147#post64147
Peddy: Could someone please help me with getting a terminal working in Spashtop? I've mounted the squashfs filesystems on my computer, I just need to know which files to modify...
bkero: squashfs is readonly
Peddy: bkero, I can modify and re-squash the files.
bkero: get a copy of xterm statically linked, toss it on there, and put it a startup script
Peddy: Could you please be a little more specific? I know how to put the stuff in xinitrc for the startup script, but where do I put xterm?
Peddy: And where do I find/make a statically linked one?
bkero: USE='static' emerge xterm && qpkg x11-terms/xterm
Peddy: should I put that in xinitrc?
Peddy: sorry, I'm really dumb when it comes to this :P
Peddy: ah, that's the build command. I'm not on gentoo.
Peddy: Could someone who modded Expressgate please send me their xterm file?