Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-11-25
Deanjo: redeeman, there seems to be some reported issues already with the new seagate firmware
redeeman: i don't care about the performance, but i am really concerned about that series
redeeman: i think it's forfeit
Deanjo: Thought I would just pass it along to ya
mattmatteh: wonders how hard drive firmware gets updated
Deanjo: Same as any other firmware
Deanjo: no different then upgrading the firmware on your DVD drive
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i have not updated firmware in over 8 years
mattmatteh: i have never done that
mattmatteh: is it common to do that ?
mattmatteh: i have a few optical drives that seem flaky
mattmatteh: perhaps i should look in to that
mattmatteh: might i ask what the ways are used to updated the firmware ?
Deanjo: Updating firmware on a burner will usually support new media, new write strategies, disable riplocks, etc
mattmatteh: thats good to know
Deanjo: For dvd drives usually you can use a firmware updater app that works in windows or dos
mattmatteh: i dont have windows or dos
Deanjo: it's like flashing a bios
Deanjo: Well you would use a dos bootdisk
mattmatteh: i have only flashed a bios once, about 8 years ago when using a dell, dell sent me a bios update floppy
mattmatteh: i dont have a floppy anymore
Deanjo: Bootable cd or usb
mattmatteh: ill have to read up on that
Deanjo: Most linux distro's even supply a dos image for doing flashing
mattmatteh: i think i was asking you about sb700 problems
mattmatteh: after several freezes
mattmatteh: this morning was the first that i havent had to hard reset
mattmatteh: i disabled cool and quiet
mattmatteh: gigabyte board
mattmatteh: there known issues with that ?
Deanjo: C'n'Q shouldn't have to be disabled. Personally I have never had a issue with C'n'Q
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i have been using gentoo for at least 4 years, i have never heard of a dos image for flashing.
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i think ill post in the forums soon
mattmatteh: stating what i did ....
Deanjo: Gentoo even had a wiki on it on their old site
mattmatteh: thanks, thats good to know, might come in handy
Deanjo: Used to be called "HOWTO_Create_a_DOS_boot_disk"
mattmatteh: i found it
mattmatteh: i clicked google cache since the wiki server is retarded
Deanjo: Ya that ISP issue of theirs has cause a lot of grief for them
mattmatteh: have you followed kernel mode setting ?
mattmatteh: i was dissabpointed when radeonfb didnt work
mattmatteh: but seems there is hope with kernel mode setting
Deanjo: I've learned from years of aggravation when it comes to linux the Nvidia blobs do the job with the least amount of pain
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i agree
mattmatteh: thats why i switched to ati/radeon
mattmatteh: but i have never used new cards
mattmatteh: they were typically older gpu's
mattmatteh: i have always used radeonfb
mattmatteh: that has always worked
Deanjo: I simply don't have the time or patience for opensource support to mature. I like to use my new hardware when I buy it not years down the road
mattmatteh: but now i have this 1980 screen for console, kinda sad
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i prefer opensource, but willing to use fglrx for now
Deanjo: At the end of the day, the less time I spend trying to get basic functionality going means more money in my pocket.
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i read your last post wrong
mattmatteh: i used to uise nvidia, but their binary blob didnt work with nvidiafb
mattmatteh: so i had to ditch it for ati
bkero: makes money from open source :) The longer I spend getting functionality in open source means more money in my pocket.
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i agree with that. i think amd/ati needs to get their drivers working at the time of hardware release. if not i see them going down like xgi
bkero: mattmatteh: What ATI is doing in radeonhd is getting most basic hardware support, so that when they release new hardware, it's already supported
bkero: Not delaying new hardware releases because the drivers aren't ready.
bkero: That's the purpose in standarizing the vbios against multiple generations of cards, etc
mattmatteh: bkero, hmm
mattmatteh: i think i understand that
Deanjo: mattmatteh, as much as you would like to think that would be a determining issue on how well a product does, realistically ATI or NV or any other graphics company does not make significant amounts of money off linux support
bkero: Deanjo: They do for supporting Rage 128's. ;)
mattmatteh: Deanjo, then where do they make significant amounts of money ?
Deanjo: Not even close to the amount of capitol they make off other support
Deanjo: mattmatteh, windows.
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i find that difficult to believe
bkero: Wait, AMD/nVidia offers support?
mattmatteh: Deanjo, sure windows might have more users overall, and with games. but there are many who at lest dual boot and need a working display
bkero: I guess AMD might offer support, but nVidia doesn't make cards, they make reference platforms. The only people they offer support to are their second/third party card builders.
Deanjo: bkero, they offer support
mattmatteh: and here, gentoo has been the only OS installed for the 4 years ( including the old computer)
Deanjo: don't know where you get the idea they don't
bkero: The link for 'linux support' points to the linux section of nvnews
Deanjo: That's for you mattmatteh, but you are not near the majority of users
mattmatteh: Deanjo, never said i was
mattmatteh: Deanjo, but i am still a user
Deanjo: bkero, you can also file bugs with them @ email@example.com
mattmatteh: and i think there are enough linux users that not supported will cost them
bkero: Deanjo: It's nice they let
bkero: me know that.
Deanjo: They do, right on the driver page
bkero: That's what I just said.
Deanjo: and in the readme
bkero: I know that.
Deanjo: mattmatteh, ATI and NV will be the first to tell ya that the only profit to be made in linux support is in the highend workstation. Joe Blow customer off the street makes them no money in linux
bkero: According to an intel engineer, 60% of their profits come from the sale of hilariously overpriced workstation cards.
Deanjo: Sounds about right
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i wonder why they think that
mattmatteh: Deanjo, i know there are alot of users that at least dual boot
Deanjo: with the other 38% on windows desktops
mattmatteh: if i buy a card, how do they know what my OS is ?
mattmatteh: unless their driver phones home ?
bkero: mattmatteh: Look for whatever stupid file redhat/debian puts in /etc
mattmatteh: bkero, hmm ?
mattmatteh: there are alot of files in /etc
bkero: Perhaps it would be the one called redhat-release
bkero: If you have redhat-release, gentoo-release, and debian-release in /etc, please tell me.
Deanjo: It's no secret that windows still crushes marketshare in the desktop
mattmatteh: not saying it doesnt, the monopoly is strong
mattmatteh: i think dismissing linux is not right though
mattmatteh: bkero, i have that file
mattmatteh: but not much in it
mattmatteh: its like uname
mattmatteh: nothing special
Deanjo: In the IT industry, volume is king
bkero: Deanjo: IT is more than supporting desktops though. :P
bkero: And outside of desktops, windows doesn't have the overwhelming majority.
mattmatteh: bkero, what is so special about that file ?
bkero: mattmatteh: nevermind
Deanjo: The number of desktop vs server is heavily skewed in desktop favor though bkero
mattmatteh: neverminds and goes to find lunch
Deanjo: That won't radically change
bkero: Deanjo: It will if vista continues to trainwreck and more people jump ship
Deanjo: Na, that's years, pehaps even decades away
Deanjo: People are sheep
bkero: looks at how long it took IE to lose a significant portion of marketshare
bkero: Not IE is bigger than IE at the moment(only slightly though)
Deanjo: An application will lose marketshare alot easier then a OS
bkero: It's hard to call IE just another application in Windows.
Deanjo: That's what it is
bkero: Sure, in the same way windows media centre is
bkero: Media player, sorry
Deanjo: At one time CorelDraw dominated the market too
cxo: IE is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more popular than non-IE
cxo: every year google release stats on this, google for it
Deanjo: Yup IE still dominates
Lightkey: google has stopped giving out stats on that :-(
bkero: Seems 26.9% + 20.2% is 47.1%, which is less than 50.
bkero: cxo: I work for Google, do you want me to look at the internal statistics for you?
Lightkey: bkero: that is stats on their own website
bkero: That's what I figured.
Lightkey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers more diverse
Deanjo: Yup, I'm sure Phoronix has near 90% FF on it's site
bkero: Hey buddy, I use dillo. 8)
Lightkey: its ;p
bkero: RMS uses emacs
cxo: What is the past tense of breed?
cxo: haha, ok thanks
Deanjo: "Nailed that booty" :P
bkero: Wow, there's a rather large difference in the usage statistics between sources
bkero: One is 47.1%, 71.1%, 76.3%, 81.4%, 76.2%
Lightkey: which is 47.1%?
bkero: As of oct 31
Lightkey: the others are *not* from their own site
Deanjo: w3c is a niche site
cxo: sorry, but Google is a fag company
cxo: would only be gay for lots of pay
Lightkey: they collect the data from ad banners of statistic services
bkero: cxo: There are only so many jobs out there that let you open source all your work.
maligor: I use telnet for browsing
maligor: you can use it for everything, irc... http... and virtually no memory use
bkero: Netcat uses less ;)
bkero: has done ghetto shell exports over netcat before
maligor: maximum security eh
Lightkey: http://www.heise.de/netze/Marktforscher-Firefox-ueberschreitet-die-20-Prozent-Marke--/news/meldung/118448 look here for the latest stats on the biggest german IT news site ;-)
bkero: Apparently firefox usage is much higher in europe.
Deanjo: contemplates getting 3 new GTX260's next week or just waiting until Jan to see what comes out
maligor: I think linux use in enterprise is also
maligor: duno about 'much' tho
bkero: Deanjo: They're on sale for $170
Deanjo: Actually can get them a bit cheaper locally
maligor: no really cheap radeons?
Deanjo: Think they are the old ones though
bkero: hates the word enterprise. Linux is used extensively in large installations.
cxo: What do you call those things you see in magazines, that you fill up and add the points on the side, and then it tells you something about yourself or about something you want ?
cxo: Acid test? litmus test?
Deanjo: Radeons are cheap as well. Just wouldn't buy one. I need working linux support
bkero: Would you like to take a free personality test?
cxo: capabilities framework?
bkero: Our personality tests have revealed that you're very unhappy.
Deanjo: Dammit computers are like drugs, seems like I can't go 3 months without craving a new fix
bkero: It's really bad this time. I'm in for a second 8800GT to SLI, and a Q6600 and 12GB of RAM
maligor: maybe you should switch to MacOS
Brace: is jealous
maligor: There you have to shell out so much more you can't
bkero: maligor: Doesn't help. I swapped the optical drive out for an SSD, and now I have 4gb ram sitting on my desk.
Deanjo: maligor, I've got macs as well
bkero: If I had HUGE balls, I'd go for a 1920x1200 15" LCD swap
maligor: a what?
Deanjo: Got a mac-mini, imac, had a MacPro (belonged to apple though, had to return that one)
bkero: Their laptops are pretty cost-effective. Well, they were before the new aluminum models. Damn them. I haven't run the numbers for the new ones yet.
bkero: But before this, my macbook cost less and had better specs than a Dell M1330 or X61
maligor: are you sure it had better specs?
Deanjo: Bought my daughter a new Macbook couple weeks ago
cxo: X61 will break you tooth fairy book
bkero: Not with my IBM employee discount :)
maligor: you get discounts from lenovo?
Deanjo: Heh that's what killed me when I was at apple, we would get purchase deals from HP and Dell as well
maligor: X61 seems to be a ultraportable tho
bkero: The educational discount at apple is better than Intel employee pricing at Lenovo or HP or Dell though :/
maligor: Deanjo, well, it does sort of make sense for lenovo/ibm :P
bkero: X61 is as much of an ultraportable as an iBook was.
maligor: ibm did sell their machine line to lenovo
bkero: IBM sold their thinkpad line to lenovo
maligor: X61 is in the blunt-instrument line of design?
Deanjo: bkero, same thing at apple, it was cheaper for my kid to buy it then it was for me to purchase thought the employee purchase program
bkero: Edu discount for apple is typically around 10%. Apple Developer program 1-time discount is 20%
bkero: Oh shit
bkero: Lenovo stopped selling X61s anyway
bkero: Wait, nevermind, there's one model left
bkero: On the X-series section there's X200, X200s, X61s, X300, X301
Deanjo: I still get MS stuff damn cheap too through their reseller purchase program
Deanjo: Vista Ultimate = $25
bkero: makes it a point not to buy hardware with microsoft software.
Deanjo: .Net Enterprise = $25
Deanjo: Everything is $25
maligor: Deanjo, err... you're allowed to resell it?
Deanjo: No it's NFR
maligor: or why is it called the reseller program?
bkero: Through my University I could get free Vista and office. I petitioned the engineering school and got my $125/month Microsoft partner fees back.
bkero: Sorry, $125/term
bkero: And then we got all of the upper division CS courses to use linux 8)
maligor: did you tell everyone else also?
Deanjo: Employees of a reseller of MS products are entitles to purchase deals from MS
bkero: All my friends, yes.
maligor: $125 isn't peanuts
maligor: ofcourse if that's the american system, then it's relatively small in comparison
bkero: $125 a term means that $500 of my tuition and fees per year is going to microsoft. I think that's absolute bullshit.
maligor: $125 is about what I pay for my student association per year
bkero: The school is primarily an engineering school, which means around 6,000 students * 500/year goes to microsoft
maligor: 3 million, eh
maligor: sort of a piratism blocker for microsoft for poor students
maligor: they get their money anyway
bkero: Meh, the local LUG has installfests, they convert some that way. Most of the computer labs on campus are RHEL4. Some are OS X, and there are two windows labs.
cxo: wants a lindows wab
bkero: wants an X-less lab.
bkero: Damn college monkeys need to learn their way around a CLI.
bkero: Give me a nice framebuffer and screen. 8)
bkero: BTW X61's with IBM employee pricing start at $874.65
cxo: man i think you need some weed
Deanjo: cli is a dieing breed
cxo: you're even more giddier than i am when i've eaten lots of chocolate cake
Deanjo: Next big thing to hit computers will be to get rid of the keyboard
bkero: Google dragged me out for a $450 meal of sushi and sake.
bkero: I feel pretty lightheaded. I'm gonna grab an odwalla.
bkero: (which is probably why I haven't made much sense, although I think I've provided accurate numbers)
Deanjo: We will all be doing like Scotty in Star Trek in 20 years, pick up the mouse and yell "Hello computer" into it
maligor: why a mouse?
maligor: oh, you mean that timetravel
Deanjo: Yup Star Trek IV
maligor: was that the one with the whales and transparent aluminum or something
Deanjo: Yup, by far the worst ST movie, but it had it's moments
cxo: ST? Softcore TV?
Deanjo: Star Trek sheeeesh
bkero: Are you talking original? Did you see Nemesis?
Deanjo: What kind of self respecting geek are you cxo that doesn't even know the universal shorthand for Star Trek :P
Deanjo: I liked Nemesis
Deanjo: I liked the "darker" mood of it
cxo: A non-North American on? I dont think i've actually seen the Star Trek movie
bkero: I liked First Contact
Deanjo: Too many people hated Nemesis simply for the fact that they killed of Data
bkero: Thanks for reminding me, jerk. :(
Deanjo: Heh, Spiner couldn't keep playing the ageless android forever
bkero: Makeup, dude.
Deanjo: Give the guy a break, he's getting old, he has earned the right to put on a beer belly like everyone else
cxo: wife is certainly not allowed that right
Deanjo: Poor old O'Brian got screwed out of every movie though
bkero: Starrr Treekkk
Deanjo: You see the trailer for the new one?
Deanjo: They picked a pretty good guy to play a young Spock
maligor: Too many people want to see the same old crap
bkero: Wait, didn't they pick Cylar from Heroes to play young Spock?
Deanjo: He's a dead ringer for a young Nimoy
bkero: Maybe if he doesn't turn all faggy like in recent heroes
cxo: is hungarry
bkero: He's very very close to being this gay. http://www.bizarrerecords.com/galleries/dontask/liberace.jpg
maligor: faggy? like love scenes with kirk?
cxo: hasnt been fed and its nearly 4pm!
bkero: maligor: like giving kirk a hug and rubbing his balls all over hig leg.
Deanjo: They could have done worse and made Matt Damon as Kirk and and Ben Affleck as Spock
bkero: Yea, but if they're going to drag them in, maybe Kevin Smith could come along.
Deanjo: Colin Farrell as Scottie :P
bkero: And that would just be fucking epic.
bkero: Kevin Smith on the bridge.
Deanjo: heh, he would pick a cameo role like the barber or something
bkero: Or take Whoopi Goldberg's role as bartender.
Deanjo: "Shipmate "Lunchbox" status please...."
Deanjo: Actually a Kevin Smith Star Trek Parody doesn't really sound all that bad lol
bkero: Have you seen Zach and Miri?
bkero: New Kevin Smith movie. I gave him the benefit of my doubt, and it was pretty good.
cxo: bkero sounds like a name of food
Deanjo: pictures Jay and Silent Bob on a landing crew
cxo: some sort of hispanic dish
bkero: cxo: You sound like a hispanic dish
cxo: i'm sexo bitch
bkero: More like I'll find you in a ditch.
cxo: you aint rich?
bkero: Fuck off, snitch.
cxo: looks like someone has an itch
cxo: dont look at me for a scratch, i'll poke your eyes out with a snatch, and you'll be Mr bkero patch
bkero: stabs cxo in the face for attempting iambic pentameter.
cxo: The person you have stabbed is too hungry to feel pain at the moment. Please try again later.
bkero: stabs harder.
cxo: jeez, i havent eaten in 24hrs, and i'm dieing, humans are pathetic. fill up a car on fuel and it will run for weeks
cxo: needs to switch over to diesel power
bkero: I think you're full.
bkero: You're filled with fail.
cxo: where have i heard that before
cxo: oh family guy
bkero: Family what?
cxo: family guy, are you deaf
cxo: turns up the volume
cxo: FAMILY GUY
cxo: bkero, IS THAT BETTER
bkero: No need to yell, young'un
Deanjo: Hey anybody here have UT2004 installed?
Deanjo: Need to know the music format it uses. IIRC it was vorbis
Deanjo: heh, guess I'll actually have to find my UT2004 and install it then I guess.
Deanjo: I can't recall if the UT2004 audio engine still supported mod format
redeeman: it uses vorbis
Deanjo: OK, that's what I thought. I seemed to recall that it was one of the first commercial games that I saw that used vorbis
Deanjo: Just setting up a applescript to do the convertion of the UT99 maps to UT2004
Deanjo: (actually a pretty simple job)
Deanjo: not nearly as complicated as I thought it would be
Deanjo: wonders where Peter Hajba (aka Skaven) is working nowdays
Deanjo: Wow, I didn't realize that Fedora still doesn't have delta rpm support
Deanjo: They are a few years behind the times.
Kano: hi michaellarabel , why can't i unselect "'Soft' delete - Leave "Deleted" Message" when i delete vistitor messages?
Kano: well you can delete it when you have time..
njdoyle: I'm trying to set up compositing with fglrx, it works fine except OpenGL stuff always seems to go on top of windows that should be above it. Does anyone know how to fix this?