Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-11-01
mydrmeix: i remember Radeon HD support did not work with the AGP version of cards, I have a radeon 3650 agp, has these drivers for fglrx solved the problem?
Xemanth: has anybody tested radeon hd 3200 (780g) with radeonhd
redeeman: hmm i wonder when debian lenny is going to be released
Kano: redeeman: usually take +3 to +6 month after first estimated release date ;)
Deanjo: wow, the upcoming blender ui might be usable after all http://reynish.com/blender_ui/blender_25_ui.png
redeeman: my fileserver broke
redeeman: the tap that holds the cpu cooler broke off lol
Deanjo: Heatsinks are overrated :P
redeeman: it powered off automagically :P
redeeman: now i fixed it
redeeman: and cpu survived! :D
Deanjo: wonders what the hell is going on nowdays with all the buggy BIOS's now days
redeeman: why should bios vendors care?
Deanjo: They have to be getting cruddy reference BIOS from Award / AMI
cxo: well thats why we've got EFI!!!
cxo: and device trees
cxo: and device fragments
cxo: and all the lovely dovey stuff from ppc
Deanjo: A crappy EFI is just as bad as a crappy BIOS
cxo: remembers the pain of getting the residual loader working
cxo: at least with EFI you can change it much easier than you can a BIOS
Deanjo: But like everything else that gets mass adopted, eventually someone will find a way to fuck it up
cxo: i think i'll buy an EFI board next time round, MSI and Gigabyte have some interesting EFI intel boards
Deanjo: I wouldn't touch a MSI if someone paid me
cxo: I have a MSI laptop, its 4 years old and nothing broken yet, so i'm happy
Deanjo: I've had bad luck with every board I've tried with them
Deanjo: Gigabyte had a LinuxBIOS board but I'm not sure if they ever continued on with that
sega01: gigabyte has a board with linuxbios preinstalled?
cxo: Intel also makes EFI boards
sega01: i know that some boards are compatible
cxo: your macpro is probably using it
redeeman: the pdf on G43NB board from intel says it's efi compatible
cxo: would need to sell one of his cars to buy a MacPro
Milyardo: /win 10
cxo: wait for win 7 already man
Milyardo: MAIL FROM Milyardo
Milyardo: RCPT TO redeeman
Milyardo: SUBJECT I'm soooo bored
redeeman: subject is part of the data?
redeeman: not actually done in the smtp protocol?
Milyardo: I think it depends on the server
redeeman: i don't
Milyardo: Server with Extended SMTP data can use SUBJECT
Milyardo: I could be wrong though
redeeman: subject: lal
redeeman: 221 2.7.0 Error: I can break rules, too. Goodbye.
redeeman: that's what my postfix says
redeeman: right before it disconnects me :P
redeeman: wtf i ehlo'ed it
Milyardo: let me try mine
Milyardo: worked on the univeristy Exchange 07 server
cxo: smtp servers get black listed if they let any network access them, so there is probably a tcp wrapper along the way blocking you
Milyardo: but thats MS i guess, I don't see a subject on any RFC though
redeeman: lol m$ piece of garbage
Milyardo: Hello Kano
Kano: hi Milyardo
Undead_Knight: Hello guys. I was planning to buy the Kandalf LCS case for my computer. Has anybody used it or has any comment about it? I'm curious to know if it's a good hardware equipement.
cxo: when i buy a case, i usually just want it to be better than a cardboard box
Undead_Knight: Good recommendation!
redeeman: im wondering which disks to buy for server
redeeman: it's really hard
Undead_Knight: Which type of server?
Undead_Knight: What's going to be it's main purpose?
Undead_Knight: Does it require speed?
redeeman: there are many main purposes
Undead_Knight: In disk access?
redeeman: well the speed of all mainstream disks is enough
Undead_Knight: I mean, is it going to be processor or disk intensive?
redeeman: but cpu is not really a problem
Undead_Knight: Then anything is good for you...
redeeman: i doubt all disks are of equal quality
cxo: multipurpose = i cant afford to buy separate servers for the task = budget build -> start looking at prices then look at reviews for hardware
redeeman: lol cxo
redeeman: that's not true
redeeman: why do you think people are consolidating servers etc?
redeeman: it makes only sense
redeeman: why the hell would i run one server for ftp, one for mail, one for fileserver, one for router etc
Undead_Knight: But you will not notice the quality if you don't commit your server to disk intensive tasks.
redeeman: one for http
redeeman: Undead_Knight: i believe i would notice it if my disk broke, even if it was only operating at 10% it's load capacity
Undead_Knight: No, you will not notice a broken disk....
redeeman: well i might not immediately, due to raid, atleast i hope so
redeeman: except the big honking alarm my monitoring system will do
redeeman: and while the data is naturally backed up daily, and on raid1, i would still prefer not to have a disk fail, if possible
Undead_Knight: A rule of dumb, your disks WILL fail.
Undead_Knight: It does not matter which brand, which quality; they will, some day, fail.
cxo: if you _can_ run all those services on one box, _then_ your volume of traffic is _low_ and hence only demands a _budget_ build
redeeman: cxo: that depends on what is considered high
cxo: i'm just playing with you, i have no idea what you are going to do with your box
cxo: i have a multi-purpose workstation, i run 3x 500GB WD Caviars in Raid5 (Linux software Raid) + LVM2
cxo: i'm happy
cxo: got the disks cheap, i usually go with refurb disk when i raid
Deanjo: write speed on linux software raid 5 is so slooooooooooooooooow
cxo: the increased redundancy makes the potentially higher rate of failure from a refurb disk less important
cxo: you're just on speed Deanjo
redeeman: Deanjo: the last benchmark i saw was not so bad
cxo: its pretty sufficient for the sober masses
Deanjo: I tried it out on my system here with 4 drives, crawled at a whooping 20 Mps
redeeman: that's wrong
Deanjo: Switched to dm-raid4-5 and write speeds went up 10x
redeeman: speaking of my current fileserver
redeeman: it has 6x300gb IDE disks in raid5
redeeman: and it can write easily 50MB/s with it's sempron 1.6ghz cpu
cxo: wtf is dm-raid4-5
redeeman: i assume some device mapper thing :P
Deanjo: fakeraid 5
cxo: how is it fake?
Deanjo: uses the MB fakeraid controller
Deanjo: er firmware to be more exact
cxo: My board actually does have a raid controller, but i dont use it, i prefer the upgradability of software raid
Deanjo: Problem with software raid is that you can't dualboot to windows and still use the raid set
cxo: lame-o, who uses windows?
Deanjo: Heh as much as I would love to dump it 100% there are still alot of apps that linux doesn't have a good replacement for
cxo: its all relative
cxo: i've been 100% linux since 1996
cxo: (at home)
cxo: at work, since 2004
redeeman: i wouldn't accept a work where i'd have to use winblows
Deanjo: Video editing for example, 3d rendering (yes blender is getting there but still not to the same level as 3dsmax or maya), gaming, etc
cxo: thats all well and good, but how does that effect you?
Deanjo: Considering I use such apps, it effects me quite alot
redeeman: you do ofcourse realize that maya exists for linux
Deanjo: Yes I do redeeman, and it's UI is horrid in linux
Undead_Knight: BTW, Blender IS at the level of some of the mayor 3d render applications.
Deanjo: When it comes to plugins and UI Undead_Knight, blender still has a long way to go.
Undead_Knight: Has anybody had any experience with a Kandalf LCS case?
Undead_Knight: In fact, I've used both maya and blender a lot. And let me tell you that I like more the Blender UI.
Undead_Knight: It is not as good looking as maya, but you can work better with that UI (blender).
Deanjo: Well then you will probably hate blender 2.5's new UI
Undead_Knight: Not exactly.
Deanjo: I don't use maya all that much, a majority of the time I use 3dsMax
Undead_Knight: Maya is just overwhelmed with menus, functions and things you don't need.
Undead_Knight: I've always believed that Maya is just too much.
Deanjo: There also seems to be a real void of good midlevel CAD's for linux as well.
Milyardo: there are plenty if you don't mind using random CAD from 1999
Milyardo: or crappy CAD ported from SGI
Deanjo: Compared to Autocad they are pretty lacking Milyardo
Milyardo: I wouldn't call Autocad a midlevel CAD though
Milyardo: thats just me
redeeman: ofcourse why should autodesk port their garbage when they know their customers are fully willing to bend over and lube up?
Deanjo: To me it is midlevel, high end is Pro/E and such
Milyardo: They're allergic to the silicone based lubes maybe?
Milyardo: Yeah Pro/E is pretty high end but I think autocad is pretty low
Milyardo: to gerenalized in purpose
Deanjo: It's a Quick and dirty refined CAD
Deanjo: Pro/E is overkill for some projects
Milyardo: It depends
Milyardo: I like how easy it is for multiple people to work with Pro/E
Milyardo: Qutoed from Digital Mars from a tutorial on the D programming Language :
Milyardo: "Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars."
Brace: I need somebody!
Brace: not just anybody!
Brace: Aubi: with what?
Aubi: wrong window
ldvx: oh man... i'm having a hard time installing the ati fglrx drivers
ldvx: with the 8-10 drivers i can't dpkgbuild and with the 8-6 after installing the .deb packages generated module-assistant a-i fglrx fails due to error in /usr/src/modules/fglrx/firegl_public.c
ldvx: any ideas of how i could fix this?
Undead_Knight: How are you installing?
ldvx: first i extract a folder named driver from the fglrx-8-6.sh then go to driver/arch/x86_64/usr/X11R6/lib64 and make a link from libfglrx_gamma.so.1.0 to libfglrx_gamma.so.1. After that, i go to driver/ and run sh ati-installer.sh -- --buildpkg Debian/lenny
ldvx: when it generates the .deb packages i install them with dpkg -i fglrx-*.deb
ldvx: and finally module-assistant prepare, update and a-i fglrx which fails
redeeman: fucking realtek
redeeman: why is their site ALWAYS down
ldvx: and i have the 2.6.26-1-amd64 kernel. I found that a guy was able to install this by removing some conflictive option in the kernel and recompiling it, might this by the only way to make the fglrx drivers to work?
cxo: ldvx, everyone has a hard time installing ati drivers
cxo: what video card do you have?
michaellarabel: Milyardo: I got a lot more info on Wayland
ldvx: cxo: An hd4870
cxo: i got one too!
cxo: flashed it with the Asus HD4870 TOP bios the day i got it
ldvx: were you able to install it?
cxo: decided to suffer and go with the open sauce drivers
ldvx: oh! i might have to do that too, the module fglrx doesn't want to get installed
cxo: i got it installed and loaded, but just gave me a blank screen
Undead_Knight: idvx, try this: after installing the .debs go into /usr/src
Undead_Knight: and use the command m-a fglrx
Undead_Knight: Don't use the a-i option.
Undead_Knight: I have had problems using a-i before with the ATI drivers.
Undead_Knight: But before all this, make sure you uninstall everythin you installed before.
Undead_Knight: And don't mess with the links yourself, let the installer do that.
cxo: hmm radeonhd just got a nice update
ldvx: Ok, i removed the previous fglrx i installed, reinstall it, went to /usr/src and tried with m-a fglrx but it gave me the same error when tried to build the module
cxo: you will need to patch it for 2.6.27
Undead_Knight: Yep, you need to patch. It seems not to support your current kernel source.
ldvx: and how do i do that?
Undead_Knight: Do you know how to compile your own kernel?
ldvx: haven't done it in so long that i can't remember, but i'll look for a guide and should be able to do it
Undead_Knight: Download the latest 2.6.27 source, copy your old configuration to /usr/src/linux/.config
Undead_Knight: and compile.
Undead_Knight: Look for the "debian way" of compiling the kernel.
cxo: ldvx, if you have the option to, simply downgrade your kernel a bit and you will save yourself a lot of pain
Undead_Knight: That is also an option, but you still have to recompile another kernel.
war9407: regarding the recent ubuntu speed comparisons
war9407: what exactly in the distro makes 7.x so much faster than 8.x in certain benchmarks?
ldvx: alright, i'll try that now. thanks Undead_Knight cxo
cxo: you can use a prebuilt kernel if you are downgrading ldvx from your distro's repos, you will just have to manually install it
Undead_Knight: idvx, you are welcome
Undead_Knight: In lenny there is no prebuilt kernel other tham what he has... I believe.
cxo: what will happen when linux (and friends) becomes too good for the average joe hacker? will its hacker base just die off slowly?
Ivanovic: war9407: probably mainly the running progs
Ivanovic: that is more recent versions start by far more (hardware intense) default services
MasterGH: Many people here tried the Prey port? I haven't got a PC capable of it, but I'm curious.
cxo: Many people here have tried to prey, yes. On port? no. On n00bs? yes, definitely.
cxo: laughs at his dry humor
maligor: I wonder why it was ported tho
cxo: hey you're going to taint it if you ask such questions
doggymenz: thanks for make phoronix website, its great
doggymenz: even though its not so pretty
doggymenz: its very good content
cxo: true reason for matrimony, the content
Undead_Knight: So true cxo.
mydrmeix: I was asking the question if AGP radeon HD cards were now supported under linux with fglrx?
cxo: mydrmeix, http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13518