Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-10-31
QBob: howdy -- hey has anyone been playing around with randr 1.2 on Catalyst?
Milyardo: Good Morning
michaellarabel: Hi Milyardo
Milyardo: Whats new this morning michaellarabel?
michaellarabel: Getting Phoronix Test Suite 1.4 "Orkdal" primed for release next week
Milyardo: Ahhh 1.6 is next I assume?
michaellarabel: 1.6 "Tydal" will be out in Q1'09, yes.
Milyardo: Whats on the roadmap for 1.6?
michaellarabel: There's some more invasive underlying work that's needed for some preparation work for PTS 2.0 features and is also needed for the GUI. So perhaps the GUI will finally be working and done with 1.6. Besides that, hopefully IBM gets permission to commit their Linux Desktop Testing Project work to PTS, plus some other stuff.
michaellarabel: There's also an IQC (Image Quality Comparison) framework currently in development.
michaellarabel: Additionally, I also need to check with the WINE guys to see how they are coming along.
Milyardo: Oh? Hopefully soon we'll be able to benchmark WINE applications?
michaellarabel: Milyardo: Yes
cygoku_: If I take the files from th cd image of Intrepid and burn them to a dvd, will it boot in live and be able to install normally ??
michaellarabel: Anyone know of any Windows benchmarks that have no install wizard?
Milyardo: I can't think of any
Milyardo: Wh do you ask michaellarabel?
michaellarabel: A company has requested some WINE tests be added before the 1.4.0 release.
michaellarabel: and those depend upon an install wizard, can't be easily automated.
maligor: I think lots of them have options for quiet installs
Milyardo: Just any kind of test?
michaellarabel: Graphics preferrably but I am willing to do any kind.
Milyardo: You could try the windows version of GIMP
maligor: or you could ask the maker of the bench :P
Milyardo: time some image manipulations
michaellarabel: maligor: Do you know any of the options for quiet installs?
maligor: well, I'm not a benchmarky type, but I've seen plenty of installers (not benchmarks) that accepted something like /quiet
maligor: it was a while back tho
Milyardo: GIMP has ZIP archives of itself and its dependencies
michaellarabel: Milyardo: I've never looked at automating GIMP much, how is their plug-in system for doing that, have you tried?
Milyardo: I've never tried automaing it but I assume the process includes
Milyardo: extracting the ZIP archives to the correct paths
Milyardo: and modifying the PATH enviroment variable to point to GTK runtime libs
Milyardo: I found this
Milyardo: Its the GIMP install script
Milyardo: In the helpfile they cite the /SILENT, /VERYSILENT
Milyardo: /NORESTART for no reboot after installation
Milyardo: /NOCANCEL might be helpful too
Milyardo: I hope this is helpful
ethana2: Why on earth was Ubuntu 7.04 head and shoulders over every other ubuntu and fedora release since it performance wise?
ethana2: Well, I think Canonical should hire you guys to watch for performance regressions
ethana2: If 9.04 can get back up to somewhere near the performance of 7.04, that would be amazing
ethana2: Is anyone present?
ethana2: hello :)
Ivanovic: ethana2: reason is simple:
Ivanovic: lots of deamons were added later on
Ivanovic: like desktop search and stuff like this
ethana2: Yeah, I don't use desktop search, ever
Ivanovic: yes, this stuff *does* make the system slower
Milyardo: Then disable it :P
ethana2: installs BUM
Ivanovic: there is lots of stuff started by default that many do not use
ethana2: wow, canonical servers are still getting...
ethana2: you know what, i should figure out this apt-p2p thing.
Milyardo: Happens every ubuntu release
Milyardo: since Drapper at least
ethana2: anyone here using apt-p2p?
Milyardo: Nope, I haven't had too many problems with just reglular http
Milyardo: that and I have my own mirror here at the Univerisity :P
ethana2: so when I'm using a university mirror, all the packages are still signed by canonical, right?
ethana2: I mean, there's no security concerns there, are there?
Milyardo: Although a Unviersity Mirror may not be competly upto day
Milyardo: I know I've held back on several packages because of bugs
Milyardo: or that break something thats mission critical to the university
Milyardo: proboly nothing you'd use
Milyardo: like mysql, apache, php stuff
ethana2: ah, k
ethana2: Is OO.o in 8.10 backports yet?
ethana2: OO.o 3.0 *
Milyardo: Dunno ask #ubuntu :P
Milyardo: Or I guess I could look real quick
Milyardo: one sec
Milyardo: intrepid-backports is empty
Milyardo: no packages at all :(
ethana2: #ubuntu is nigh worthless to me
ethana2: 2000 people isn't exactly the right number for an irc channel
ethana2: ....actually, I'm not going to mess with apt-p2p..
Milyardo: yeah after 1337 is goes downhill from there
ethana2: It scares me and I switched to mirrors
ethana2: I hope 9.04 defaults to apt-p2p for updates
ethana2: that would be insanely awesome
Milyardo: I doubt it
Milyardo: I'd be concered about the security with apt-p2p
Milyardo: but it should be an option
ethana2: again, signed packages
ethana2: ...plus bittorent has built in checksums
ethana2: that's why i always use it for my disc images
ethana2: Hey, what bash aliases do you use, Milyardo?
Milyardo: ummmmmm none >.>
Milyardo: I usualy end up writing a script instead of just using an alias
ethana2: cat .bashrc | pastebinit
ethana2: The jokes I make about my aliases make more sense if you've seen ads for Brawndo
ethana2: also note my functions
ethana2: remove () and REMOVE ()
Milyardo: I have a script that I use called ssh-all that takes keyword commands to ssh and execute a command on every machine I have in a file full of hostnames
Milyardo: right now it has about 30 host in there
ethana2: I only have three machines
ethana2: I guess I admin like 5
Milyardo: it determines after logging in if the machine is a Linux, OpenBSD or Solaris machine
Milyardo: and it also fiogures our the distro
Milyardo: and runs the correct update command of r each
ethana2: What about OSX?
Milyardo: I don't have any OSX servers atmm
ethana2: I went to torrent iDeneb the other day, but the .iso was to fricking big
ethana2: what kind of bloated OS needs a whole DVD just to install?
Guest31435: hey, if you have an intel card, how do you enable kms in the fedora 10 beta?
ethana2: I think you may have to patch your kernel
ethana2: yeah, 'cause GEM got in, not KMS
Guest31435: i thought it worked find with fedora 10
ethana2: Ohhh.. maybe they've already applied those patches themselves
ethana2: My mom's going to pick up her Ubuntu Dell today
Milyardo: You's have to revert to an old version of the intel driver I beilive
Guest31435: i'm trying to do it with the fedora 10 livecd :/
Milyardo: I still haven't bought an ubuntu machine from dell yet
Milyardo: I don't have the money
Milyardo: my job doesn't pay me enough :(
ethana2: It's the second one in our family
ethana2: third if you count the one that came with XP
ethana2: Guest, a LiveCD isn't going to work
ethana2: If you have to modify the OS, you need an install
ethana2: flash drive?
Guest31435: i always thought fedora 10 beta supported it out of the box
ethana2: Perhaps it does..
ethana2: Does it seem to work out of the box?
ethana2: because with a LiveCD, it either does or it doesn't
ethana2: If it does, I'd be confused as to why you're here, and if it doesn't, you need a persistent fedora install
Milyardo: Fedora 10 supports KMS and plymouth on Ati R500 cards out of the box
Milyardo: it used to be that intel cards worked as well
ethana2: ahh, interesting
Guest31435: ah, i'm trying to use an intel card atm
Milyardo: but the recent reworking of the intel driver broke that support
ethana2: but it'll be back in time for fedora 10, right?
Milyardo: Proboly not
ethana2: Well, there's always 9.04 ;)
Milyardo: I'm sure packages for the update intel driver will be made as soon as support comes back
Milyardo: but that may not be until after 2.6.28 comes out first
Deanjo: Heh the alsa channel has become over ran with *buntuboys
Milyardo: OMG NO Xi-Fi
Milyardo: WHY NO Xi-Fi :)(
ethana2: At least you didn't say ubuntards
ethana2: heh, that's Creative's fault
Deanjo: Should just setup a automatic reply saying "disable pulse"
ethana2: I don't want to do that with 8.10
ethana2: I completely removed it from my 8.04....
ethana2: ironically enough, i had it installed on 7.10
Milyardo: I guess In was lucky, I never had any issues with pulse on my laptop with 8.04
Milyardo: I do remeber it crashing with my workstation though
Milyardo: but I moved my workstation to intrepid months ago
Milyardo: and its been fine since
Guest31435: pulse better get better, its the only savier of linux audio
PetoKraus: just wanted to drop by, say, good job on those benchmarks, and idle
PetoKraus: Guest31435: pardon me, BS!
Guest31435: ok, yeh,
Guest31435: LET USE DMIXER!
PetoKraus: what's bad about alsa?
Guest31435: badley designed?
ethana2: apps fight over the sound device?
Milyardo: ethana2: Thats the only limitation I know of, though I don't regularly use sound APIs
Deanjo: I haven't had that in...... well...... years
PetoKraus: well, maybe i am lucky, and it's true, that plural of anecdote is not data, but...
Roberth: what version of alsa does rhel 5.3beta use?
PetoKraus: Guest31435: "badley designed" where?
Milyardo: alias frigging='sudo'
Milyardo: win 10
Milyardo: forgot a / :(
Milyardo: So michaellarabel: Did ja find a Windows app to benchmark?
ethana2: reboots into 8.04.1
michaellarabel: Milyardo: Sort of.
michaellarabel: There's going to be about 5 WINE graphics tests in 1.4.0
Milyardo: Good to hear
Milyardo: Any of them in phorogit now?
Milyardo: I see wine-vf2 in test-profiles
Milyardo: anythign else?
maligor: michaellarabel, any opengl ones?
michaellarabel: Milyardo: I have 7 now... I haven't committed those yet.
michaellarabel: maligor: Yes
maligor: d3d might be useful too
Milyardo: Sounds good :)
michaellarabel: maligor: Got that covered too
Milyardo: didn't dxdiag have some benchmarking/demo tool
Milyardo: ;-; go GLSL support
Milyardo: *no GLSL
Milyardo: VolumetricFogging2.exe: no process killed
michaellarabel: Milyardo: What graphics card are you using?
Milyardo: An Intel card
Milyardo: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
Milyardo: It seems like PTS can't tell that the process ended prematurely though
michaellarabel: Milyardo: it will wait 30 seconds
Milyardo: no did it revieve an error code it looks
Milyardo: Average: 0.00 Frames Per Second
michaellarabel: 7 wine-* tests now in git
Milyardo: I still only see wine-vf2 in test profiles :P
michaellarabel: Git's been acting up
Milyardo: Thanks I have them now michaellarabel
Milyardo: wine-water crahed my server :(
Milyardo: *my X server
Milyardo: I'm going home to see how this works on my box at home
Milyardo: brb in about an hour
Azerthoth: michaellarabel I know your probably way behind and projects blocked out for the forseable future, but I do have an idea for you
michaellarabel: Azerthoth: What idea is that?
Azerthoth: perfomance test parent/child distros, Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo/Sabayon/Funtoo
Azerthoth: and so on
Azerthoth: although Gentoo/Funtoo is kind of difficult to determine who is parent, as Funtoo is drobbins
michaellarabel: I'll consider it, thanks.
RobbieAB: Funtoo is Gentoo...
RobbieAB: It's just a set of unofficial stage tarballs from drobbins.
Azerthoth: yes and no
RobbieAB: Azerthoth: Nothing in a standard funtoo set-up is any different to a gentoo set-up.
RobbieAB: Once you do the first portage sync and update, the two are nearly indistinguishable
Azerthoth: hmm, you mean switching over to git instead of emerge --sync, using metro instead of portage, etc etc
Deanjo: michaellarabel, why doesn't the wine test just use the wine packages that come with the distro. Wine can be a real PITA to compile on 64-bit systems
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Not many systems shipping with WINE 1.1.4+ that I know of.
michaellarabel: And newer than WINE 1.1.4 is needed since that's when some FPS monitoring support was added for PTS.
Deanjo: They usually have a wine update repo
Deanjo: *untu,deb,freebsd,rh,suse,mandriva,slackware,pcbsd all have updated wine packages available
Deanjo: You could just search for wine >=1.1.4 being installed first with wine --version and if none is found then compile if need be.
Milyardo: michaellarabel: Find any more info about wayland?
michaellarabel: Nope, haven't heard back from Kristian yet
Milyardo: Deanjo: Its probably best not to add wine a a dependency if you don't have to
Deanjo: Milyardo, that makes wine pretty much a 32-bit linux test then
Deanjo: compiling wine on 64-bit has never been a straight forward ./configure, make depend, make process
Milyardo: True, but either way 99% the Apps we're running on wine will be 32-bit
Milyardo: so it will make no difference, at least for now
Deanjo: No you do not understand Milyardo
Deanjo: You have to compile the 32-bit wine on a 64-bit systen
Deanjo: 64-bit distro's use a 32-bit wine
Deanjo: As you can see here http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOn64bit that it takes ALOT of manual intervention to pull that off
Deanjo: (not to mention loading up the system with a bunch of devel libraries anyways)
Milyardo: Thats why I said we could just use the 32-bit binary until then
Milyardo: Its not ideal
Milyardo: but its better than adding another dependacy
Deanjo: Milyardo, that is TO build a 32-bit wine on a 64-bit system
Deanjo: That's why it's far better off to use the distro's prebuilt package
Deanjo: Which by the way can easily enough be uninstalled if desired through what ever package manger is used
Deanjo: You don't have to install a bunch of build dependencies that way
Deanjo: and worry about cleaning those up afterwards
Deanjo: That's why distro's generally build wine on a 32-bit system
Deanjo: and when you install wine on a 64-bit system the rpm/deb whatever it uses is the i386/i586/i686 package
Azerthoth: best just to compile for yourself out of git
Deanjo: Right now as it is right now, the wine test will only work on a 32-bit system
Deanjo: Azerthoth, ./configure, make depend, make will not compile wine on a 64-bit system
Azerthoth: no, but a properly configured package.use will on gentoo
Deanjo: So you propose a different proper configure for every distro out there?
Azerthoth: thats the individual distro's decision, to build it correctly or build in workarounds
Azerthoth: since most distros frown on their users dropping to source instead of binary
Deanjo: Azerthoth, every 64-bit system out there requires a different build process out there
Azerthoth: circular logic, proper response, ... and
Deanjo: Using the distro's rpm/deb/ whatever is the most universal way of doing it
Deanjo: and ensures 32-bit and 64-bit distro's can run the wine tests
Azerthoth: Then that would be the distro dev responability to compile and distribute a proper binary, rather than a various collection of work arounds/hacks/jails
Azerthoth: it's their distro, their responsability
Deanjo: Exactly, as it is right now though it tries to compile it from git
Deanjo: which will only work on a 32-bit system
Azerthoth: better not let my desktop hear that
Deanjo: so your telling me when you build the 32-bit binary from git all you have to do is ./configure, make depend, make
Azerthoth: I'm telling you that gentoo will compile git wine and run perfectly
Azerthoth: on 64 bit
Deanjo: using potage
Azerthoth: yup, set the use flags to pass to configure and kick back for 10-15 minutes
Deanjo: There you go, YOU HAD TO USE FLAGS!!!!!
Deanjo: ./configure, make depend, make will NOT compile a working 32-bit library on your 64-bit system
Deanjo: PTS wine tests does nothing for the setting up of the environment or flags
Azerthoth: Deanjo ./configure is where you set up any variable you want to build with, building anything that way the user/dev should atleast make a cursory check of options available
Azerthoth: no package should ever just be blindly installed without first looking, and tweaking if needed
Deanjo: I know that Azerthoth but the commands that PTS uses is EXACTLY ./configure && make depend && make
Deanjo: Which is ONLY good on a 32-bit system
Azerthoth: gah, doing any install that way is no better than grabbing a random exe and doing windows
Deanjo: EXACTLY MY POINT!!!
Deanjo: To get maximum compatibility across platform and os's theit respective premade packages should be used for wine
Azerthoth: while PTS may be considered as coming from a trusted source, in practice it is better if you dont do it yourself, atleast grab the binary from your distro's trusted repo's
Deanjo: Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. Finally someone who understands
Deanjo: There is just too many distro specific loopholes one has to go through to compile it from git on 64-bit
Azerthoth: erm, no, your method is allowing bad habits to persist, expecially when dealing in source
Milyardo: I'd for one would rather not be restricted to using wine version xxx just to run PTS
Deanjo: See that is another advantage of utilizing the distro's wine packages Milyardo, one can easily test various versions to do a head to head
Deanjo: One could easily compare 1.1.4 vs 1.1.5 vs 1.1.6 vs 1.1.7 etc
Deanjo: Just open up your package manager and run what ever version you want
Milyardo: And I'd also would like to not invoke root prviliges just to run PTS as well
Deanjo: Well you would have to invoke root either way at at some point, either to install the wine package or it's build dependencies
Milyardo: unless PTS downloaded as many dependencies as possile to build locally (though I'm sure the dependecies from X will Have to come from the system)
Deanjo: Good god man do you have any idea how many those are?
Milyardo: Somehwere on the order of 50 or so packages
Deanjo: And it still does not solve the 64-bit problem as the packages would have to be the 32-bit devels
Milyardo: Whats humus?
Milyardo: Its what micheal uses to run test
michaellarabel: Milyardo: http://www.humus.name/
michaellarabel: A lot of graphics demos there, it's by an ex-ATI employee.
Milyardo: it looks cool
Milyardo: So is there where all the test come from?
michaellarabel: The WINE ones right now, yes.
Milyardo: He has alot dx10 demos, I'm sure his demo will be a very valuable resource over the next few months as Codeweavers and the WINE team begin thier d3d10 work
michaellarabel: He has 80+ demos going back to 2000
michaellarabel: And he did a good job at standardizing them, so I used the Cascading Test Profiles to write a wine-humus interface that is layered on top of a wine-unstable CTP
Milyardo: I'm surprised I've never heard of him then
Deanjo: hugs aria2
cxo: Whats all this unsolicited hugging going on about?
Deanjo: Well aria2 is hot
cxo: sees no aria2
Deanjo: lol the downloader silly
Deanjo: Kickass when you have to download iso's from 1/2 across the world
Deanjo: wget was taking forever, aria2 maxed my bandwidth out
Milyardo: le growl
Azerthoth: woof woof
Darklock: who let the dogs out
Azerthoth: has no cage, hazcheezburgr
Milyardo: omg cheezburgr
Azerthoth: giturown myn
Azerthoth: ceiling cat sez 2 dudez, no sneakin off wit other catz cheezburgr. Tis b commandedment kthxbye
Milyardo: I'd consider project offset abandoned at this point and demand that intel make this project open again
cxo: has a cup of chocolate chip ice scream
Milyardo: cast super ice cream stealing ninja swipe of the shadow
cxo: feels fat now