Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-10-29
Marox: Penny Arcade EP2 is out
Naib: wants X3 and world of goo
Marox: then you have to wait, Naib
Naib: wants NOW :D
Milyardo: Good morning
Kano: hi Milyardo
Milyardo: Intel drivers make me cry, I can no longer play WoW on my Workstation!!! I can only slack off so much on slashdot :(
PetoKraus: i am gonna try warcraft3 on ati driver
PetoKraus: *drivers - xorg ones
Kano: Milyardo: oh, luckily i do not play it *g*
michaellarabel: AMD's X-Video Bitstream Acceleration: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=13034
PetoKraus: fglrx only, eh? :/
PetoKraus: michaellarabel: do you have any info on the future progress of xorg radeon/radeonhd drivers?
michaellarabel: PetoKraus: In what respect?
PetoKraus: anything, new features, performance improvement... stuff.
PetoKraus: or, where do you get info about these?
PetoKraus: (apart from private sources, ofc)
michaellarabel: The next major thing you'll see on the open-source side is R600/700 3D
Kano: michaellarabel: i dont get why you use it that wy, if it is xvmc you can specify the lib used with
Kano: echo libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 > /etc/X11/XvMCConfig
Kano: as example for nvidia
Kano: shouldnt that work for fglrx too if it is xvmc?
michaellarabel: Kano: I've tried that way with the wrapper as I mentioned and it wouldn't work.
Kano: and with mplayer options it did?
Kano: i see no screenshots with it
Kano: and if the cpu usuage was differnet, usually mpeg2 decode is no problem for current cpus anyway, you would need to restrict to one core and low speed to see a diff
Kano: amd cpus can go down to 1 ghz, i would bench with that
Kano: what do you want with 2 ghz+, when you have got a cpu usage below 10%
PetoKraus: so i can confirm, that Warcraft 3 runs quite well under Ati Open source radeon drivers
PetoKraus: it's not as blazing as fglrx, but it works.
PetoKraus: (using wine, ofc.)
Milyardo: michaellarabel: http://kotaku.com/5070265/the-ps2-is-now-officially-an-open-platform
Milyardo: Apperently the PS2 is now Open
Milyardo: Does this mean alternative Dev kits are legal options as well?
Milyardo: That part is still a little ambiguous
Lightkey: foreste, it will be a bit longer than that; we've got 650,000 registration codes to generate and send
mha: 15:38:23 up 800 days, 4:17, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.04, 0.06
cxo: 12:09:36 up 11 days, 20:21, 3 users, load average: 0.25, 0.22, 0.12
redeeman: 17:09:18 up 1104 days, 31 min, 1 user, load average: 1.43, 1.00, 2.22
cxo: wtf 3 years uptime?
redeeman: it's a server
redeeman: why wouldn't it have 3 years uptime?
redeeman: i don't make servers to press reboot
redeeman: i make them to serve the needs of my clients
cxo: so i bet all those vmbuff exploits are gonna work real nice
redeeman: it's too old for that :P
redeeman: already tried
redeeman: and it would be even older if it werent for the fact that my client moved offices
redeeman: it had 200 days uptime before that
redeeman: but i took the chance to upgrade kernel while it was being moved
redeeman: im considering replacing the server though, with a new fancy one, when lenny is released
cxo: unless that kernel is heavily grsec'd its probably really vulnerable considering its age, there must be a billion CVEs since 2005
redeeman: it is grsec'ed
cxo: good, then there are probably only a thousand CVEs from 2005 that will work :)
redeeman: none that are remotely exploitable
redeeman: i just cant decide if i should go with debian for the replacement of that server
redeeman: im not sure if im ready to stop using gentoo on highprofile servers
GNU\colossus: if you are able to invest the time into maintaining the system, then gentoo is clearly the superior choice imo
redeeman: allthough gentoo is dying
GNU\colossus: if it's just one of many machines you do not explicitly care about, anything debian- or red-hat-ish will do
redeeman: so it's a hard choice
GNU\colossus: I wouldn't say so
redeeman: please, all the really good devs have left for exherbo
GNU\colossus: it's heydays may be past, but gentoo still lives and kicks :)
redeeman: they are refusing to switch to superior software
redeeman: and a few insane developers are running the show
GNU\colossus: I use paludis on gentoo, and i'm ok with that
redeeman: there is one insane person
redeeman: which runs some of their servers
redeeman: which has evicted many developers
redeeman: he treatened to pull his hardware if they were not removed
redeeman: including the KDE team
GNU\colossus: well, this world is full of arseholes
redeeman: and now an asshole has control of gentoo
GNU\colossus: still, I don't see any viable alternative to Gentoo
redeeman: not yet no
redeeman: exherbo is working on that
redeeman: i just hope gentoo lasts long enough
GNU\colossus: well, I'd be happy to contribute to Exherbo, yet the personalities involved aren't entirely non-problematic either, fwiw ;)
redeeman: some of them are a tad arrogant
redeeman: but they are very skilled
redeeman: and they are the ones that were involved in gentoo when it was in it's prime time
GNU\colossus: I know, yeah
GNU\colossus: brb, reboot
redeeman: damn, i have to create 20 live usb installs now lol
cxo: sure you dont need to create just 1 and dd it 19 times?
cxo: or if you have a USB hub you only need to dd if=/home/disk.img of=/dev/sd[abcd]1
redeeman: i need them to each be a little different
cxo: dd if=/dev/random first :)
cxo: then they will all be a little different
Milyardo: cxo: ?
cxo: i think that server of yours just crashed :)
redeeman: not an irc server :P
redeeman: it's not gonna crash until it will be replaced
Milyardo: 'lo Deanjo
Milyardo: Afternoon :)
Milyardo: I need a new job :(
Milyardo: They don't pay me enough here
Deanjo: I hear good things about drug distribution
Milyardo: That market is already saturated here
Milyardo: There also a barrier to entry
Milyardo: What I need a a full time position
Milyardo: no more student wages
Deanjo: You could always work the street corners
Milyardo: $8 /hour for SysAdmin is slave labour!
Deanjo: Ouch, people here make almost double that flipping burgers
Milyardo: Don't remind me :(
Milyardo: Helpdesk gets paid more than I do
Milyardo: Or at least the new hires do
Milyardo: They get 8.25!
Milyardo: I work almost 80hours week but I'm only on the clock for about 20
Milyardo: but they don't care
Milyardo: Disk full up
Milyardo: they go bad
Milyardo: they get replaced automagicly
Deanjo: I always preferred the "Shit happens, deal with it" response when a HD fails
Milyardo: Yeah PBXs write their own dailplans I'm sure too
Deanjo: I always did get a kick out of people demanding monetary compensation for a failed hard drive
redeeman: that's the problem with disks, the warranty is practically useless
redeeman: people just gotta deal with it
redeeman: if the data isn't backed up, it's forfeit
Deanjo: Gotta rub in the "Well you did keep backups of your crucial information right?"
Milyardo: except I'm not allowed to buy new disk, I'm just a student worker
Deanjo: I'm not talking about being in a sysadmin role
Milyardo: We need you to set up a new node on this SAN, but no DC root of you, you're only student worker >>((
Deanjo: Just a Joe Blow that walked in off the street into a computer service dept
Milyardo: Joe Blow gets screwed no matter what
Deanjo: Jow Blow should have backed up his data if it was that important
Deanjo: The only thing that doesn't need to be backed up is stuff your willing to lose
Milyardo: Joe Blow, tries to take his comp back to to get warrenty on his HDD
Milyardo: Dumb as PC tech disassemble Joe Blows 1+0 Array "because its easier to boot the machine with only 1 disk"
Milyardo: makes an angry face *RAWR*
Deanjo: Well like any other profession you have the good, the bad, and the ugly
Deanjo: Certification Degrees mean very little in competency
Milyardo: Yet I've for some reason I can't get any of those jobs as a second job?!?
Milyardo: makes a double Angry face
Deanjo: If I had a dime for handholding MSCE through shit he should know off hand.....
Milyardo: must goto class now before he melts someones face, multivariate integrals make him happy
Deanjo: michaellarabel, you around?
michaellarabel: Sort of
Deanjo: Can I make a suggestion of increasing the sort size of the SQLite test. 2500 record is pretty damn small on modern machines
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Yeah, I've been thinking of doing that
michaellarabel: What quantity are you thinking of?
Deanjo: I would go at least 10,000
Deanjo: 2500 takes 2 seconds on my machine for example and at that point it becomes pretty hard to distinguish the deltas from tweaks and such
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Updated for 12,500 insertions
redeeman: i'd say let it run for soemthing that takes atleast 1 minute
redeeman: maybe 2
redeeman: tip: if you want a live usb environment, don't choose kingston datatraveler 4gb, choose 8gb, it's twice as fast
Deanjo: Ya that should be good
Deanjo: michaellarabel, Alsa 1.0.18 is now final
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Thanks, it's about time
Deanjo: Lots of oxygen changes
Deanjo: and the usual 10,000 HDA changes :P
Deanjo: Cue the usual "WTF! Still no X-Fi!" gripes in the forums
Milyardo: OMG wtf Still no X-Fi!!!!!!!WTFOMGBQQWHATAMIDOINGWRONGLOLIDIDITFORTHELUZ
Deanjo: Because X-Fi SUXXXXXXXXXXxx
redeeman: i wish they would never support it
Roberth: Milyardo: freebsd 7.1beta2 supports xfi
Deanjo: I just wish Creative would finally just rollover and die
PetoKraus: Deanjo: why? they make good mp3 players
Deanjo: Can't see any real advantage from a creative mp3 player that 10,000 other don't have as well
Deanjo: Besides Creative has to be one of the most Anti-competitive companies aroung
Deanjo: They are the MS of hardware (probably even worse)
PetoKraus: Deanjo: it's pretty!!! :P what practices?
Deanjo: Lol, suing every damn competitor, killing them in legal fees and then drop the suit and do a hostile buyout
Deanjo: The did it to Areal and Sensaura
Deanjo: Not to mention stole from Gravis with their "Soundfont" technology, cloned Adlib and added one feature and gave Adlib squat in licensing.
Deanjo: starts building Alsa RPM's
Deanjo: You know, blue laser mice don't like blue mousepads
Deanjo: OK, I take that back, maybe I should just clean the lens every once and a while I guess
Milyardo: michaellarabel: Ever used any of those KillerNICs advertised on your site? I've never noticed until not but apperently they run embedded Linux on card.
Deanjo: Ya, I had one for a while, more gimmick then anything
Deanjo: Athough running a bittorrent client on a nic was kinda cool
Deanjo: Not enough to justify it's insane price
Milyardo: Can you replace the distro on it with a distro of your choice?
Deanjo: Well it's not a "distro" per say. More like LFS embedded
Milyardo: Some of it claims also don't make sense to me
Milyardo: Like How does it bypass the Windows TCP/UDP Stack?
Milyardo: I don't think that possible
Milyardo: What kind of device does it appear to be in HAL?
Milyardo: if it appears to be a NIC then it has to use the Windows TCP/UDP stack
Deanjo: Oh heck I can't remember, it's been a good year since I had it
Milyardo: As applications are written to use it :P
Milyardo: and if it doesn't appear as a NIC
Milyardo: Then how can applications use it again?
redeeman: by implementing a compatible tcp/ip layer?
Milyardo: So you increase performance by running packets through 2 IP stacks instead of 1?
Deanjo: Na it would route the requests straight to the device
Deanjo: intercept the windows stack calls and re-route
Deanjo: The one area that I do recall it being very good at is that doing Gbit speed transfers were alot less CPU intensive
cxo: Milyardo, the driver does not need to use the windows network stack if it doesnt want to
Deanjo: As far as online gaming though I can't really say it made a difference as most of the latency is not incurred from your nic anyhows
cxo: but the Windows NT5+ Network stack is actually better than Linux, its a straight port of BSD's network stack
cxo: Milyardo, the driver can implement its own winsock and libraries, completely bypassing existing windows infrastructure if it needed to
redeeman: lol nt 5+ doesn't even begin to match linux's performance
cxo: Milyardo, you can for example write a sound card driver for linux that doesnt use alsa or alsa lib, if you choose to, you are not forced to reuse kernel components, you can re-implement as many as you want
cxo: BSD network stack is world renowned
cxo: if you dont believe me, try and open say 1000+ tcp connections on windows and pump data through it, and compare it to Linux
redeeman: well.. whatever m$ has done, i invite you to try and benchmark it
cxo: you will be very surprised with the outcome
Deanjo: Ya it really strutted it stuff when they switch over MS's sight to Server 2008 and their complete site slowed to a crawl.
redeeman: cxo: xp cannot match linux at all
redeeman: and i seriously doubt w2k3 should be able to either
cxo: redeeman, Oh it does quite easily actually.
redeeman: i accept that challenge
cxo: If you dont know how to setup an experiment like i said, try use something like Bitorrent dont limit peer connections, watch what happens to your downloads on Linux after you cross say 400+ peers
redeeman: i do that already
redeeman: connected to thousands of peers
Deanjo: same here
cxo: Yeah, now do that on windows and compare
redeeman: and it completely trashes winblows
redeeman: cxo: it's funny you mention bittorrent
redeeman: this is EXACTLY where i have my data from
redeeman: Deanjo: what do you mean?
Deanjo: I have to agree with redeeman, bt on linux is far superior
redeeman: cxo: it's pretty easy
redeeman: when im done with these usb sticks
redeeman: ill write a small app
redeeman: and then ill have it listen on a socket
redeeman: and connect 1000 times
redeeman: and send 100mb through
redeeman: and time it
redeeman: and then ill do it on both OS's
cxo: I think your bias towards linux is misleading you. I used to do network profiling, as part of my previous job. We used win2k in our labs, and its so much better at linux when youre talking about 1000s of connections
redeeman: i haven't tried w2k, but i know for a fact that xp blows in comparisin
redeeman: but even worse, the winblows ethernet drivers are almost always muuuccchhh worse
cxo: XP uses the same network stack as win2k
redeeman: well in that case my tests will proove your previous work wrong.
cxo: whatever floats your boat :)
redeeman: don't take my word for it, this is gonna be a fair test
PetoKraus: while we are at it. what can cause my wireless router to "limit" lan traffic over 802.11g signal to at about 1MBps?
PetoKraus: when copying file, eg.
redeeman: i just have to create 14 usb sticks first
cxo: I used to do this for a living, i know very well how much better NT5.X is than linux in this matter.
redeeman: lol "i do this for living"
PetoKraus: "i do something microsoft related for living" => credibility--;
PetoKraus: anyway, i am trying to digress from your flamewar. any help?
cxo: I was a testing engineer for high speed network attached HSMs, we did these sort of tests on a daily basis. both BSD and NT5.X will blow away linux
cxo: I do predominately kernel security work now
cxo: (Linux kernel)
cxo: brb food...
PetoKraus: and we wonder why the performance dropped so much lately
redeeman: cxo: your previous or current work doesn't matter at all
Milyardo: cxo: If you really did do that you'd be far more specific about the queing method and kernel version you used in your labs
redeeman: lol not really
redeeman: if he did that he'd have tested all kernels
redeeman: which is very likely
redeeman: but his results just are not consistent with any of the data i've personally gathered
redeeman: and thus i challenge it
buggs: cxo, what was the last version of linux and (free?)bsd you tested
cxo: oh our Linux testing was on Fedora 4 boxes, 2.6.17, and we used FreeBSD5.1
cxo: We do the testing on stock off the shelf operating systems so we can give the QA team metrics they then pass onto marketing etc..
redeeman: i also remember when the freebsd team suddenly announced
redeeman: "freebsd IO beats linux now!! MWUAHAHAAH"
redeeman: and nothing to back it up
redeeman: and then when they finally are presuaded it talk
redeeman: they use a specific version of mysql which has a weird issue on linux when configured in a special way
redeeman: which they naturally took advantage of
redeeman: it was so damn funny
cxo: wow 60fps with the nvidia driver and 18fps with the nouveau driver for 720p
redeeman: for what exactly?
Deanjo: @#$%@#% cruddy linux mixer controls http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c316/deanjo/Alsamixer.png
redeeman: yes but for what?
redeeman: decoding does not happen on the graphics card
redeeman: so it is for decoding
cxo: Deanjo, alsa dynamically exports all that to userspace without really knowing whats useful and whats not. But you dont need to change your mixer settings all the time do you?
Deanjo: Ya I do it quite often
cxo: really? why, i dont think i have ever touched alsamixer more than once a new sound card
Deanjo: Real pain in the ass when your doing multichannel audio
cxo: oh i do, i have a maudio1010
redeeman: i don't use alsa for audio
cxo: 8in 8out, jacknet and ardour
cxo: but i never need to touch the alsa controls
cxo: i adjust levels using hardware mixers
Deanjo: This is a app for multizone out though CXO
cxo: like surround sound?
Deanjo: Utilizing the multiple outs for different audio zones
cxo: so surround sound?
Deanjo: no not surround, different playback of different audio sources to different outs
^Azerthoth: or multi-room home stereo
Deanjo: more like multiroom
redeeman: i use 6 channels output, but only stereo
redeeman: to do the crossover filter digitally
redeeman: it's awesome
redeeman: just using jack and directly to hardware via freebob (firewire audio driver)
Deanjo: In that mixer pic the actual controls are FRONT L/R| REAR L/R | Front Center | Sub | SIDE L/R
Deanjo: Where it comes in as a real pain in the ass when mixers want to adjust volume by channel label.
Deanjo: Since all are "Master" all the friken channels change levels
Milyardo: purgatory, how fitting
Milyardo: esp. since it Suse Box j/k j/k
Deanjo: heh, my windows workgroup is 'Hell'
Milyardo: how biblical
Milyardo: My naming scheme is nowhere near as intersting
Milyardo: My Desktop at home is Zion, by Laptop is Zilog, My Workstation is Zircon, and my Cell is Zeypher
Exopaladin: my desktop was called brain, now it's my file server and my current desktop is minibrain, my eee is braineee :P
Deanjo: heh, my name for my media server is "POS". Absolutely hate the chipset on that board.
Deanjo: Soon to be my contribution to the landfill
Milyardo: What chipset?
Milyardo: porn returns 5398 Results on newegg.... but not one porno o.o
Deanjo: Starts with an A and ends with I
Milyardo: I gues I'm fortunate enough to never have that one
Deanjo: I'll never get a ATI Chipset again if I have a choice
cxo: you're a real insomniac