Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-10-27
Xemanth: has anybody else noticed that openoffice 3 is slow in kde 4.1 ?
Xemanth: jerky slow scroll in documents
Kano: michaellarabel: did you try disabling compiz for you u tests?
michaellarabel: Compiz was disabled, oops. I should mention that
Kano: that openjdk 1.6 was basically a stripped down version of openjdk 1.7, it seems the prop. java functions from sun java 1.6 are much faster than the replaced ones
Kano: but you certainly can install the sun version on newer 32 bit distros
maligor: aren't the replaced ones pretty unused stuff for 'normal' apps?
Kano: the compile time for apache is really low on 7.04, did you check for errors?
Kano: a 100% extra time is not normal
Kano: same for imagenmagic
Kano: why should it be so much faster?
Kano: due to missing speedstep?
michaellarabel: Kano, no, since EIST is disabled.
Kano: then check the logfile, does pts look at error level when test stops?
Kano: and mark it failed?
michaellarabel: It depends upon the errors, but I had already looked at the logs
Kano: i would check those 2 again on 7.04
Kano: it it highly unlikely that kernel 2.6.20 was so much faster
Kano: or the compiler was faster
Milyardo: Good morning #phoronix
michaellarabel: Hi Milyardo
Milyardo: Whats new today michaellarabel?
Kano: michaellarabel: do you think it is more easy to parse xml with php or perl?
michaellarabel: Kano: never tried parsing XML in Perl. For PHP, I wrote my own basic parser
Milyardo: I've found it very easy to parse XML is PERL
mrintegr1ty: redeeman: cool thanks, will that be a bare minimum or should it be able to carry on with other tasks at the same time (samba transfers etc)
Milyardo: Slashdot is hilairiously taking you article on Ubuntu getting slower way of context michaellarabel :)
michaellarabel: Yeah... Usual kind of Slashdot comments though.
maligor: I imagine game benches are more affected by the 3d driver changes
maligor: unless you put the same version on all
Milyardo: "The problem....The test suite itself: The Phoronix test suite runs on PHP. That in itself is a problem-- the slowdowns measured could most likely be *because* of differences in the distributed PHP runtimes."
maligor: yeah, real benchmarks run on holy smoke
maligor: I'd use python, not php tho ;)
michaellarabel: Yeah, I noticed that comment... The minor PHP differences have no affect on the benchmarks that aren't written in PHP.
Milyardo: Ubfortunatly this post is getting modded very high, alot of people are beiliving it :(
Milyardo: michaellarabel: Do you plan on testing other distrobutions as well?
michaellarabel: Milyardo: Fedora is being tested right now
redeeman: mrintegr1ty: well.. depends on the material, some scenes are extremely heavy, and will be consuming most of it, while others only needs a smaller percentage - but, ffmpeg isn't very multithreaded on h264 yet, so you should be able to do SOME stuff in background..
Kano: hi redeeman ,did you buy g45 yet?
redeeman: no and i won't unless i get a need
Kano: still happy with ati
redeeman: i learned that intel didn't bother wiring out the second dvi link to the connector
redeeman: so the boards does not support duallink dvi despite G45 doing it
Kano: well some others did hdmi + dvi ports, so only need an adapter
redeeman: the driver won't allow it
redeeman: i talked to the intel people
Kano: well maybe the g55 next year *g*
cxo: g55-amg ftw
redeeman: michaellarabel: read the ubuntu benchmarks now
michaellarabel: redeeman: Where?
redeeman: michaellarabel: you should give a non-CFS kernel a try on later ubuntu, to test the java stuff, java has been majorly affected by CFS
redeeman: well on phoronix.com
michaellarabel: Perhaps once I am done with Fedora testing... Running Fedora 10 Snapshot 3 right now and then need to wait for 7, 8, 9 to redownload
redeeman: well it will certainly be interresting to see what they are doing
redeeman: i would however also like to see some vanilla benchmarks
redeeman: unfortunately it's impossible to get the state of say, a gentoo system, 2 years ago
Deanjo: Hmmmm, see this is where I think PTS if being used for distro vs distro comparisons should be done with the factory packages
cxo: it doesnt? thats lame
Deanjo: No it doesn't, it downloads the sources, then compiles them and uses the resulting binary
Deanjo: So for a "distro" comparison it's not the ideal indicator for OS benchmarks
Deanjo: The way the tests are being done now you can readily say that "Geez, this pre-built binary sucks, I can get xx% increase by recompiling it."
Deanjo: PTS needs a "OS Mode" and a "Hardware mode"
cxo: i dont think those modes sound right
cxo: binary performance really depends on the toolchain
cxo: a truly fair cross-platform/cross-distro test would supply its own binaries
redeeman: or have a bootstrap mode to construct it
cxo: that would be intense
cxo: but then again, if your definition of fair=using hardware mostly efficiently, it gets really political
cxo: i remember when motorolla had published a benchmark that intel did with a 286, they beat the benchmark by optimising the code for a moto68k
redeeman: lol i don't see how it's so bad
redeeman: compiling glibc + gcc isn't so bad these days
Deanjo: Point is, if your benching versions of a OS you really should be using the pre-built blobs
cxo: yes, i think thats a given
cxo: why pts doesnt do that is super lame
redeeman: yes if the aim is to benchmark the distribution
Deanjo: As your testing a "distro"
redeeman: but that is not pts's goal
redeeman: you have misunderstood that, im quite certain
cxo: then using pts for that goal is wrong
Deanjo: redeeman, I'm quite aware of PTS aiming more for being a hardware test suite
cxo: haha, just use a JVM!
cxo: now that would be fair :)
cxo: have you started your new job yet Deanjo
Deanjo: Yuppers, great working from homw
cxo: yeah i did that for a bit, its relaxed
Deanjo: I go in about once or twice a week but a majority I do from home
Deanjo: wonders if anybody noticed that the new macbooks and macbook pro's have accelerated x264 video playback
Deanjo: Won't be surprised to see it enabled in future nvidia linux blobs
cxo: i knew this was coming, you guys get a puny nvidia vid card and everyone is like "OMG!! look da puter does grafreex"
cxo: i like the screen though
cxo: dont like the aluminium case
Deanjo: It will really start to shine with 10.6
cxo: and the inability to turn off the illumination on the keyboard is a major drag
Deanjo: It's not a real battery killer
Deanjo: We ran tests back in the day comparing the battery life on a Powerbook with the keyboard on and off. the run time difference was less then 5 minutes
cxo: It has a placebo effect Deanjo
cxo: no one _really_ cares if it uses battery or not
cxo: its not like it cant be plugged into a wall in school, train or air craft these days anyways
Deanjo: lol, especially when I'm willing to bet,50+ portables are plugged in 24/7 anyways
Deanjo: I remember seeing 5-6 year old portables with a charge cycle count of less then 10
cxo: the new macbook is really just a fashion accessory, its far to delicate to be man handled on the move
cxo: especially with the alu casing and glass screen
maligor: The Logitech Illuminated keyboard look cool
maligor: bloody expensive tho
Deanjo: I find it actually alot more sturdy then the previous gen cxo
cxo: i'm comparing it to the Thinkpad's titanium casing
maligor: one of those indestructible ones eh?
cxo: if i ever need to buy a mobile PC, it would have to be a thinkpad, hands down
Deanjo: Titianium isn't all what it's cracked up to be, especially when it's just a outer shell but the internal is still plastic
cxo: I had an X31 back in the day, could start a bar fight with it and walk away like Stalone
cxo: you could stand on it and jump, and you wouldnt break the screen (closed of course)
Deanjo: You could do that with my old Tandy 1100 too :P
Deanjo: Now that was a tank of a portable
cxo: yes a lot of old computers were like old mercs, indestructible
Deanjo: Then again they were co-designed with GRID who specialize in Battlefield computing
cxo: battlefield computing, i like the sound of that
Deanjo: Heh, use you laptop for a shield
cxo: kevlar the screen
cxo: take a few 12-guage rounds at close range
Deanjo: I always got a kick out of Applecare agents telling me about some soldiers calling in from Afghanistan or Iraq for tech support, meanwhile they hear gunfire in the background
cxo: snorts another line
cxo: network packets that is :) today they got me working on some network filtering
cxo: so you think apple may have an Android offering?
Deanjo: lol, why would they
maligor: they already have a crappy closed platform, why would they move to a open one?
cxo: cos its gonna kick their butts when they realise the whole world is writing software for it
cxo: it will end up like the PC vs Mac again, and we all know who is the minority
maligor: a un-googlified android would be cool
Deanjo: Uhhuh, heard that threat about a million times
cxo: its oss now and part of the open handset alliance
cxo: google is evil but this is gonna be good, i can feel it
maligor: actually the problem with iphone is that it's exclusive
maligor: and highend at that
cxo: and tied to everything
cxo: and uncool if you are hetrosexual and male
maligor: I think they're pretty cool
maligor: but I like to poke around my devices ;)
Deanjo: cxo, there have been many many many devices that have had OSS kin and still the proprietary stuff dominates. Truth is most people simply don't give a shit
maligor: Deanjo, yeah, depressing, isn't it
maligor: same seems to go for DRM stuff
Deanjo: Unless your a code monkey, FOSS offers nothing of value to a end user
cxo: obviously drivers and stuff will be closed, but the app framework is open, and thats enough for mobile
maligor: closed drivers are a terminally bad idea
cxo: actually this open/closed thing is not a big deal actually for Android
maligor: it just moves the point of failure around
cxo: its the "Free" part that will make it big
cxo: and the endless list of big boy OHA partners
maligor: besides, I want to turn my mobile phone into a gigawatt white noise generator!
maligor: need them drivers!
Deanjo: I love how FSF bashed the iphone because of "it's gps tracking ability" which is mandated by the FCC and Homeland security but praise android even though it does the exact same thing
maligor: gps tracking ability?
cxo: i'd like to have a driver for that
Deanjo: Yes on any phone for about the last 4 or 5 years, your where abouts are trackable easily
maligor: I don't have a gps on my phone
maligor: not to mention it being a european model
Deanjo: You may not have GPS usage ability but I pretty much guarantee you that it's there
maligor: mm.. really?
maligor: seems to use star screws
Deanjo: and then there was the gripe about apple being able to disable a installed app, which android carries as well
maligor: you don't have to use android marketplace tho
Deanjo: No but people have to realize that the ability to do so is more for the safety of the network then anything
cxo: The major major major thing is, you dont need permission to sell an app for android
maligor: then there was the whole Apple NDA crap about not being allowed to say if you got rejected
cxo: this is why android equipped phones will kick apple's iButt in a few years
Deanjo: That was changed maligor recently
redeeman: cxo: don't underestimate the stupidity of most pople
maligor: Deanjo, I though they only dropped it for released apps
maligor: not unreleased
maligor: or maybe I misunderstood the article?
Deanjo: Right now as it stands from what I recall the NDA on that isn't being enforced
cxo: Android is not meant to compete with high priced smartphones (BlackBerry, iPhone etc..) its going to deal with the problem of nonconsumption, allowing people with simple phones to have access to "smart" features, at least thats what the economist says
Deanjo: The only way I can see android killing the market is if they offer free devices and offer ad supported cell service to the layman
cxo: obviously there will be ads
cxo: the whole point of Android is to introduce mobile advertising
Deanjo: I would even let my kids get one at that point
cxo: well i'm sure we'll get adblock for android in no time
maligor: Deanjo, your kids don't have cellphones?
redeeman: how old?
Deanjo: oldest is 13
redeeman: are you telling him/her not to get one, or does he/she not want one?
cxo: redeeman, he lives in the middle of nowhere, in the bundies
Deanjo: I'm telling them they are not getting one until they can afford to pay for it for themselves
maligor: cellphones are expensive i n the US too probably
maligor: due to the whole bundling business and hiding costs
Deanjo: If they want one they have to pay for it and it's service
cxo: reoccuring expenses are not a good idea for kids
redeeman: i believe i got my first phone at probably ~13 years old
redeeman: maybe it was 12
Deanjo: If they want to go and buy a pay as you go, then fine.
Deanjo: But it's going to be their money that pays for it
redeeman: i remember i had my dad buy mine for me, as there was no "pay as you go" back then, and you couldnt enter into a contract before you are 18 years old
redeeman: ofcourse i paid myself though
Deanjo: If they go on something like a field trip or such, I do however give them a phone to use for emergency purposes
cxo: when i was 19, i bought my own car, and paid for it in cash, and paid for insurance too, i was very proud of myself
redeeman: if i had kids i'd probably shell out for phones for them
cxo: i wouldnt
Deanjo: I don't let my kids hang around in malls and such either or be out until all hours at night
redeeman: i never really understood that "hang around in malls" thing
redeeman: maybe because we don't have malls the same way in dk as you do over there
cxo: needs to get a black n' white version of wireshark, these colours are starting to hurt my eyes
Deanjo: I like to know what my hellspawn are up too :P
redeeman: Deanjo: so.. are you one of those parents that reads their childrens browser histories, and IM logs etc?
cxo: the whole mall thing is for females between the age of 14-17
Deanjo: Truthfully though it hasn't even been a issue so far, it doesn't seem to be in their nature
cxo: smudge the edges of that range depending on how they are brought up
Deanjo: No I don't audit my kids net and that redeeman
redeeman: IMO that's an insane thing to do
maligor: redeeman, there are a bunch here, I'd get immensely bored :P
maligor: malls that is
cxo: yeah neither would i, cos i wouldnt know how to deal with it, if anything required dealing
Deanjo: Hell my oldest knows how to crack the router anyways. Doesn't do much good lol
redeeman: besides, children at age ~13 already know how to encrypt their stuff suffeciently
cxo: wouldnt work at my home, i specialise in network security :)
redeeman: my parents wouldn't have had a chance against me, at that age
redeeman: cxo: you would be surprised, 13 year old kids, especially if interrested in such stuff, are not to be messed with
Deanjo: redeeman, funny thing is, when I was at Apple, the majority of reported security flaws in the parental controls in OS X were reported by the kids themselves lol
redeeman: even apple using kids are stupid
cxo: i'm a PC
Deanjo: Not really, most of the time they are reporting it out of concern lol
redeeman: you just made my day
maligor: they want to be censored eh?
Deanjo: "Did you guys know that if you open up photobooth, take a picture of yourself and add your self as a buddy that it disables the parental controls on the IM?"
maligor: the whole PC thing is stupid
redeeman: how the hell could you have that flaw?
maligor: someone should shoot apple marketers for popularizing it even more
redeeman: someone should shoot apple and all it's users
cxo: wait till you start seeing I'm a PC wet T-shirt competitions
maligor: They'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes!
Deanjo: Ya, that one happened on the 10.5.0 release. I laughed so hard that it was a 9 year old reporting it that I wound up sending him a free iPod Touch for reporting it
Deanjo: I figured he deserved to be rewarded with something
maligor: lucky 9 year old
redeeman: he deserved to be freed from crapple crap
maligor: yeah, you should've sent him a free Zune
redeeman: or maybe a product that does not suck?
maligor: what's wrong with ipod touch?
redeeman: it's crapple
maligor: such strong feelings
Deanjo: maligor, Apple can be really generous if people are not assholes and willing to work with them to fix issues
redeeman: but most of the time chooses not to
maligor: Deanjo, heh, you mean push them farther in the lockin ;)
Deanjo: Most of the time people are not willing redeeman
redeeman: that's not true
Deanjo: It is VERY ture
redeeman: the things you see, crapple wants months and months to fix shit
redeeman: simple stuff
redeeman: have crapple even fixed all the things from moth of apple bugs?
redeeman: i think not
cxo: I'm Linux and run you all! http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7871/linuxau4.png
Deanjo: And your telling me redeeman that other OS's are not the same?
redeeman: you should perhaps look at the cases where people have been so fed up by crapple that they just publicly announce what they have found
redeeman: that is NOT the same if you report it against 99% of all free software projects
Deanjo: Christ, I have open bugs dating back 2+ years on all OS's
redeeman: im willing to bet that it's mostly inconsequential then, nothing like.. say... remote root exploits?
Deanjo: Hell how old was that ssl bug?
redeeman: which ssl bug?
Deanjo: The debian ssl
redeeman: i don't know how long it took them to fix since report
cxo: You know what sucks! OpenOffice Draw
cxo: I want to like it, I want to draw my diagrams with it, but is sucks balls!
cxo: And you know what sucks for technical drawings, Inkscape!
Deanjo: Heh, I run smartdraw in wine for that
cxo: OODraw is missing a lot of alignment tools
maligor: inkscape is slow too
maligor: unless they've moved to cairo for filled too
cxo: the new inkscpae has the individual tool windows now part of the main window
cxo: like Glade-3
maligor: yeah, I know
maligor: I haven't actually tried complex shapes with it but in the old inkscape they were slow as heck
maligor: it was painful to edit them
cxo: i never noticed that
maligor: mm, it seems better now
Deanjo: Bah, you were probably just doing speed maligor
maligor: no, it really was dreadful
cxo: haha @ codeweavers, i so told them!
Deanjo: lol w00t!!!!
Deanjo: Doesn't CX Office now include the CX Gaming as well?
cxo: couldnt care less anyways, wine rocks
Deanjo: Heh, free is free, I'll never turn down a free app
Deanjo: Free as in beer
cxo: nah free software doesnt do it for me, when warez is there
Deanjo: Maybe I should read the article closer "CrossOver Office and CrossOver Games "
Deanjo: Wonder if the Mac version is going to be available as well?
cxo: and since when did anyone ever play a game on a mac
cxo: Mist doesnt count
Deanjo: heh, there are a shitload of WoW Mac users
cxo: i think we should just go back to cartridges, each equipped with its own flash disc for the game, cpu and graphics, just plug it into your PC and play!
Deanjo: Mention WoW, OS X and ATI video card to a Applecare Rep or Mac Genius and they are liable to shoot you on the spot
PetoKraus: thanks for the ubuntu benchmark
PetoKraus: i think you banged the nail quite well
cxo: To a hammer, everything looks like a nail
PetoKraus: just don't start quoting forrest gump :)
Deanjo: Of course, when it comes to Mac's, Anything > a X1900 has always given grief
cxo: Smack that bitchin'tosh
Deanjo: Heh, kernel security update
cxo: Mac that bitchin'tosh
cxo: looks like i'm gonna be doing a talk on GDB next week
jonnor: does any know if Intel G45 can use dual digital displays? for example on GA-EG45M-DS2H ?
maligor: you should start with: "GDB is a leading supplier of contemporary Office Furniture in the UK"
jonnor: thats a gigabyte mobo
Milyardo: michaellarabel: For some reason I am not able to PTS from GIT off a specific machine
Milyardo: The machine I can't pull PTS from is Raptor, a debian VM running on ESX at the university
Milyardo: My Home box Zion, can pull it just fine
Deanjo: Why not just download the manual for that MB jonnor. It should say in it/
Milyardo: When I pull from raptor I get this error:
Milyardo: error: Couldn't get http://www.phorogit.com/repo/phoronix-test-suite.git/refs/heads/pts-gui for heads/pts-gui
Milyardo: The requested URL returned error: 404
Milyardo: I don't think its a proxy issue for two reasons
Milyardo: first, I'm returned a 404 error not a 503
Milyardo: second, I can also put pts from git just fime for Zircon, my workstation on campus
Milyardo: Whats your though michael?
Milyardo: (my workstation is running intrepid by the way)
michaellarabel: Milyardo: Is it just for pts-gui branch?
Milyardo: Don't know, after it hits that 404 its fatal for the clone
Milyardo: I'll copy and paste terminal output to pastebin
michaellarabel: Try again, just made some chabges
Milyardo: Now I can't get master
Milyardo: error: Could not interpret heads/master as something to pull
Milyardo: its git version git version 18.104.22.168
Milyardo: if that matters
michaellarabel: could your proxy be the problem?
Milyardo: If it was I'd get a 503 returned not a 404
Milyardo: And the only difference between the two proxy env vairables on Raptor and Zircon is that Zircons $http_proxy has my auth credentials
Milyardo: since Zircon is a untrusted host for the proxy server
Milyardo: take a look at this michael http://pastebin.com/m13b326a5
Milyardo: Perhaps its the version of git thats an issue?
Milyardo: I got a 404 when I wget http://www.phorogit.com/repo/phoronix-test-suite.git/refs/heads/master on Zircon
Milyardo: but zircon still has no trouble cloning
PeterKraus: hello, got a bug in phoronix-test-suite on gentoo
PeterKraus: ./lame: line 2: /usr/bin/time: No such file or directory
PeterKraus: obviously, time is part of bash, it's installed
Milyardo: PetoKraus: time is not part of bash
PetoKraus: well, so did the gentoo guys say
PetoKraus: anyway, i don't have any time binary, and do have time command
Milyardo: type `which time` into your console
PetoKraus: pk@gentoo ~ $ which time
PetoKraus: which: no time in (/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.2:/opt/e17/bin:/usr/kde/3.5/bin:/usr/qt/3/bin:/usr/games/bin)
PetoKraus: pk@gentoo ~ $ time
PetoKraus: real 0m0.000s
PetoKraus: user 0m0.000s
PetoKraus: sys 0m0.000s
PetoKraus: funny, eh?
Milyardo: whats your pwd
cxo: its a bash internal, if you want gnu time use \time
PetoKraus: Milyardo: ~
cxo: <> \time
cxo: Usage: time [-apvV] [-f format] [-o file] [--append] [--verbose]
cxo: [--portability] [--form<> \time
cxo: Usage: time [-apvV] [-f format] [-o file] [--append] [--verbose]
cxo: [--portability] [--format=format] [--output=file] [--version]
cxo: [--help] command [arg...]
cxo: [17:46:07 ~]
cxo: at=format] [--output=file] [--version]
cxo: [--help] command [arg...]
cxo: [17:46:07 ~]
PetoKraus: command not found
PetoKraus: how do i get it? :)
cxo: woops, that didnt paste well
Azerthoth: is that really necessary?
PetoKraus: cxo: i don't have THAT installed on the system
cxo: its built into bash
Azerthoth: PetoKraus the output you gave indicates you do
PetoKraus: no, sys-process/time is not installed
Azerthoth: real, user, sys ... all output from time command
cxo: PetoKraus, you want gnu time?
PetoKraus: the time i've got is the bash's time
PetoKraus: well, phoronix test suite wants gnu time
cxo: yum install time
PetoKraus: why did you assume i am on suse?!?
PetoKraus: when my hostname is @gentoo?
cxo: i did?
PetoKraus: yum install time
Deanjo: yum ain't suse
cxo: suse uses yum?
PetoKraus: alright, it's something rpm based, my bad
Deanjo: yum is RH or YellowDog
cxo: emerge then, or whatever gentoo users do
PetoKraus: yeah yeah, no worries
Milyardo: the problem is you don't have a time executable in any of your $PATH directories
PetoKraus: obviously, since it's in bash...
Milyardo: you could just create a script in /usr/bin
Milyardo: to run bash's internal time
PetoKraus: that didn't work... it seems to be okay when i emerged the GNU time
Milyardo: PetoKraus: Great! Thats even better
PetoKraus: thanks for help guys
PetoKraus: gentoo is stupid
Milyardo: If you were set on using your internel time program you could just write the script in /usr/local/bin/
Deanjo: You know you would get crucified for stating that in the forums or the gentoo room :P
redeeman: PetoKraus: what has gentoo done now?
Milyardo: redeeman: Confusion over builtin time commands versus GNU time
PetoKraus: redeeman: well, the responses i got from their "support" were clearly unsattisfying
redeeman: that is not a gentoo thing
Deanjo: That gentoo distro should really get a wiki :P
Azerthoth: it has one
redeeman: Milyardo: you clearly do not understand what you are talking about
Deanjo: not anymore Azerthoth
Azerthoth: Deanjo moved now, and has been
Milyardo: redeeman: I'm a loser
redeeman: Milyardo: the issue is that gentoo by default does not ship with the "time" utility, but the shells does have a similarly named builtin command, now, you cannot just go blindly substituting calls for a system binary to a shell builtin, it would be madness
PetoKraus: redeeman: i mean, isn't it obvious to you, that i needed the GNU-time? it seems quite obvious to me. why doesn't it seem obvious to the gentoo support?
Deanjo: Ahh ok, new addy
redeeman: PetoKraus: it was very obvious to me, yes
cxo: all this obviousness isnt obvious
redeeman: PetoKraus: and the people you call "gentoo support" is just random people, if i had seen your initial problem i'd have solved it in no time
redeeman: and just to clarify, Milyardo, gentoo does this 100% the same way as any other distribution, only difference is whether you have the time package installed
Deanjo: looks like they lost some stuff though
PetoKraus: redeeman: there are gentoo devs on that channel. it's not "just random people"
redeeman: PetoKraus: and did the devs answer?
PetoKraus: well, "you are using bash's internal" was their only answer
PetoKraus: no suggestion as to how to solve it whatsoever
redeeman: i have not seen your original question
Milyardo: :) Sounds pretty self explanatory to me
Azerthoth: PetoKraus some of the issue might be not clearly stating the need for dealing with an outside of tree package
PetoKraus: well, my question was quoting the same as i quoted here... showing output of PTS needing /usr/bin/time
Milyardo: redeeman: Whats Gentoo without a little madness (besides I only suggested using the builtin as an option)
redeeman: Milyardo: well, it has nothing to do with gentoo
cxo: PTS should have made clear its deps
PetoKraus: it has. it has to do with the people who are working on gentoo, who are giving support on gentoo, and therefore it has something to do with gentoo itself.
Milyardo: I never said it had anythign to do with gentoo... >.>
redeeman: PetoKraus: the gentoo devs have NOTHING to do with pts, how do you expect them to supports PTS?
cxo: ok ladies, give up already
PetoKraus: cxo: alright
Azerthoth: and to think I stopped in to watch the Ubuntu folks go balistic at the recent review
Milyardo: Azerthoth: Why would Ubuntu folks go balistic?
Azerthoth: Milyardo negative press man, any time anyone says anything negative about Ubuntu, the poster gets called a hater, regardless of fact
cxo: cos their American missiles?
cxo: go ballistic
PetoKraus: i liked that review
Milyardo: Fire ze missiles!
PetoKraus: the thing is, i don't think it's only ubuntu.
jonnor: Azerthoth: I guess Mark has allready made Ubuntu the new osx then :p
jonnor: (people going religious over valid critisicm)
Milyardo: PetoKraus: Anyone who bothered to read the article as opposed to reacting to the title would come to that conclusion
PetoKraus: it might help to perform the same using other distro's...
Milyardo: michaellarabel is doing that now :)
Azerthoth: oh it was a good review, just that the reactionaries in that crowd are a tad bit vocal
PetoKraus: Milyardo: which ones?
michaellarabel: Hi, Fedora for now
PetoKraus: cxo: bless you (tmi)
PetoKraus: michaellarabel: good, good :)
michaellarabel: the time command is no longer needed with PTS 1.4+
PetoKraus: i've got last stable :)
PetoKraus: that'd be 1.2
michaellarabel: 1.4.0 will be out soon and that will take care of it
Azerthoth: hello michaellarabel good to finally meet you, love your stuff
PetoKraus: yeah. i THOUGHT it's a bug, see? :P
Azerthoth: nice cover PetoKraus
michaellarabel: Well, a new PTS micro-timer framework is introduced in Orkdal that is cross-platform and relies upon its own internal timers
michaellarabel: Azerthoth: Thanks!
PetoKraus: Azerthoth: cover?
cxo: internal timers?
Azerthoth: PetoKraus not worth starting again
michaellarabel: cxo: Its derived from the PHP microtime plus some other functionality added in
PetoKraus: i just don't understand the meaning of the word. not a native speaker, sorry
PetoKraus: whois Azerthoth
Azerthoth: need a / there
PetoKraus: that didn't help ;)
PetoKraus: << donkey!
Milyardo: They michaellarabel any idea on that 404 with raptor yet?
Milyardo: Do you see the 404 on the git server logs?
michaellarabel: Milyardo: No idea yet.... Swamped right now with this added Fedora benchmarking now. Plus some G43 benchmarking.
Milyardo: Are there going to be any differences between this benchmakr and the fedora one besides the obvious change in distro?
michaellarabel: Nope, same tests except for no gaming tests since those didn't provide much good.
jonnor: which versions of Fedora are you including? how far back?
Milyardo: Will there be an attempt to comapare similar realeases between the two distros?
michaellarabel: I am thinking 7, 8, 9, 10 Snapshot 3
Milyardo: Like comparing 8(if i remeber the dates correctly) to 7.04
michaellarabel: Milyardo: Undecided.
michaellarabel: Other tests will be coming though, per the request of Canonical.
redeeman: michaellarabel: why not test older aswell?
Milyardo: Can't wait to see what other test
redeeman: test all the way back to 5.04
PetoKraus: it needs manpower
PetoKraus: i'd say
michaellarabel: redeeman: It all depends on time and such... Granted, most of it is automated, but just the process of redownloading all of the ISOs and then installing them, etc.
redeeman: yes well - if it were me, i'd say first step is to be testing different kernels, but it's also IMO important to test as broad a base as possible
redeeman: i might need to do some testing myself
Milyardo: redeeman: reproducible results are a key to benchmarking :)
PetoKraus: well reproducible is key of scientific experiment
maligor: but evolution is reproducible!
Milyardo: So is random sampling
Milyardo: while PTS Global maybe not be entirely radndom, it should present a representative sample on how distros behave on different hardware
maligor: err.. isn't is what I meant
Milyardo: maybe michaellarabel could include data from PTS global as well to deomstrate how the different ditrso have changed performance wise
PetoKraus: is 1500 seconds alright for kernel compilation time?
michaellarabel: On what kind of hardware?
PetoKraus: core 2 duo
PetoKraus: it seems quite overmuch
michaellarabel: that does seem a bit long
PetoKraus: well, actually, not really
PetoKraus: Intel Core 2 Duo CPU U9400 gets 2400
PetoKraus: atom 13k :D
Milyardo: michaellarabel: Apperently One of the AA Forums Moderators posted a sticky in the Linux support forum on how to find v2.5 servers for Linux
Milyardo: about 2 weeks ago
michaellarabel: What good is that though?
Milyardo: lol 2A2A2A2Ajust thought it interesting
Milyardo: Just thought it wa interesting
Milyardo: ctrl key was stuck :P
Milyardo: I just makes me think what why they decided to do that after all this time
Lightkey: too much nagging
Lightkey: oh michaellarabel, you seen http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20081027/ this?
michaellarabel: LightKey: It's been on phoronix for many hours now :)
Lightkey: haven't seen it..
Lightkey: oh, phoronix news, it's so tiiiny
cxo: i think the codeweaver's site is dieing :)
Deanjo: Well you broke it
Deanjo: I got my freebies already :D
Lightkey: dieing :-D
cxo: i was just looking, i dont want cxoffice
Deanjo: I wonder how many sales this will generate for them with the next major release?
cxo: i'll never understand why people buy cxoffice and cedega
Deanjo: Easy, official support
Deanjo: In a corporation that's a big factor