Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-08-20
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: looks like the pts git is (again) rather stalled over here
Ivanovic: that is: please run some of the update magic on the rep, currently i am not getting the latest rev here
michaellarabel: Fixed :)
Ivanovic: jupp, working now, thanks
Ivanovic: maybe you should make this a fixed part of commiting
Ivanovic: that is: use a script for commiting which will do the "forced update" with every commit
Kano: hi michaellarabel, did you do some sli benchmarks yet?
michaellarabel: Kano, no
Kano: i thought you wanted to do some with your new monitor
Kano: well when you test CF then you should compare it to SLI
michaellarabel: Catalyst 8.8 - http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=12767
michaellarabel: OverDrive - http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=12775
michaellarabel: CrossFire - http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=12776
wiscados: man, I hate the fglrx driver, it never works
Kano: michaellarabel: wow, what about xserver 1.5
Kano: still no driver for intrepid?
redeeman: more importantly
redeeman: does it run stuff? such as... wine?
maligor: michaellarabel, yeah, it seems to have some libXv stuff
michaellarabel: maligor: I can't comment on that.
maligor: oh, I have the driver
michaellarabel: Right, but beyond mentioning the files, I can't comment.
maligor: I just wonder why it only contains 32bit versions
maligor: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/64bit/ati-driver-installer-8-8-x86.x86_64.run for anyone interested :P
redeeman: i still remain unconvinced that the fglrx driver will actually work properly, should i buy a 4850(which i really would like)
maligor: well, I'll test them in a bit
maligor: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=12767 has phoronix coverage on changes
maligor: err. wrong channel :P
Kano: maligor: working on a 2.6.27 patch...
Kano: 2.6.26 is outdated ;)
maligor: .27 doesn't really have anything big and interesting changed
maligor: hmm.. I wonder if it plays nice with PAT now
maligor: time to test it
bacatta: any release notes available for catalyst 8.8 ?
Kano: wine still broken
bacatta: Kano: ok, merci
redeeman: lol i wonder if they just cant fix it
Kano: no pointsprites
Kano: i thought they wanted to fix that *g*
maligor: it plays nice with .26 pat tho
Kano: maybe the cf support took too much time
cxo_: michaellarabel, nice work keeping up with the nvidia/ati driver status on linux
cxo_: It's a nice topic to follow especially with the new 4800 out and back-to-school specials coming up quickly
Kano: cxo_: also it is nice to know that wine still does not work an pointsprites are missing
Kano: with fglrx 8-8
cxo_: i;ve been playing with wine-git of late
cxo_: there is a quite a lot of improvement since my last attempt 1999 ish
cxo_: most of the compatibility problems seems to do with game writers not using the api correctly
cxo_: brings new light to why microsoft forward-ports bugs
cxo_: been messing with a few UT3 engine games
cxo_: if game manufacturers kept wine support in mind, they could write their game with support without explicitly needing to add code for it, but by just using the directX api properly
CME: huh, nvidia coolbits is evil o_O
CME: i enabled it to look for the auto button
CME: well, after that, i simply disabled coolbits again
CME: result: massive moving grafik errors and a system that was completly frozen up
CME: (even sysrqs didn't worked)
cxo_: i think nvidia is just slightly below google in the evil scale
CME: huh, bash.org is still dead?
Deanjo: http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/9000_large_microsoftx6-dt.jpg <---- why do I have visions of keycaps falling off all over the place?
cxo_: i dont know
cxo_: how's that early retirement coming along?
Deanjo: It's coming
Deanjo: Signed on with a satcom company to fill out my remaining working years
cxo_: sell the truck, start a new project, take it easy is what i think, how long do you plan to work for this satcom company
Deanjo: About 5 years
cxo_: what's the company called
Deanjo: SED systems
Deanjo: http://blackravenplace.net76.net/blog6.php/2008/08/20/distros-will-always-be-linux-and-not-the <---- why do people think openSUSE is based on fedora just because it utilizes RPM
Deanjo: shakes his head in disgust
Deanjo: "while OpenSUSE is based on Fedora" tsk, tsk, tsk
cxo_: once upon a time suse, redhat and mandrake were 100% binary compatible
Deanjo: openSUSE was based off slackware
cxo_: i wonder if suse uses the same crippled old rpm fedora does
Milyardo: Fedora is what made a fan of the debian package system
Milyardo: though now I've been looking at IPS lately
Milyardo: It has some interesting features, not enough to turn me away from Deb
cxo_: rpm was ahead of its time in 1998
cxo_: problem is redhat just didnt update it, and kept patching it and wrapping it with this and that, and now its a totally disaster imho
Milyardo: I didn't get into Linux until about 02
cxo_: plus sacking the guy who wrote rpm, is never a good idea
Milyardo: even then All I used was portage
Milyardo: I didn't try a binary Distro until about 05
Milyardo: o.o Who's Sacking who?
cxo_: oh old story, redhat fired the guy who designed rpm
cxo_: about 10yrs back :)
Milyardo: oh I see :)
Deanjo: opensuse 11.0's rpms are blazing fast due to utilizing lzma and the major overhaul to zypper
cxo_: real RPM ie. non-Fedora RPM, still lives and is pretty dam good, i think they are up to version 5.7 now, but Redhat/Fedora is still hanging on to their shit
Milyardo: I heard Athena is dropping RedHat as a base and switching to Debs
Milyardo: Which is a good thing, that was one Massive cluster fuck of hacks when I used it a year and a half ago
Milyardo: It was like stepping back in time
cxo_: VMWare ESX is still using rhel 2 or something
Milyardo: Thats understandable though
Milyardo: I can't image a reason to have package management with ESX
Milyardo: Kernel updates are what you do 90% of the time with ESX
Deanjo: Hmmm, speaking of which I notice a new build of 6.5 workstation got put up
cxo_: i havent used anything VMware'ish since workstation4
cxo_: i find qemu to satisfy my virtual needs
Milyardo: My shop is really into VMware and Xen
cxo_: i was even messing with xnu on it, almost got it working except for some dumb error in the APIC driver
Milyardo: and Xen is really only for OpenBSD VMs
Deanjo: Wonder if the new version finally has a alsa plugin
Milyardo: Deanjo: Of OpenBSD?
Deanjo: No of VM WS
Deanjo: It's nice having DX3d in the clients though now
Milyardo: Oh I found that strangely PulseAudio works well in VMWare
cxo_: really? does it work
cxo_: i meant the d3d
cxo_: how is it implemented
Milyardo: No idea, At least with Ubuntu it works well
cxo_: they have to be emulating something along the way, since vmware doesnt have a hypervisor
Deanjo: I know games hardly see a hit in performance
Deanjo: The unity feature is nice as well
cxo_: i dont see how you can by pass Mesa->LinuxDriver bit, so i wonder how well it works with DirectX
cxo_: unless vmware supplies a ATi driver or something, now that would be funky
cxo_: envisions binary translation
Milyardo: There's no reason the Ati driver shouldn't work with ESX
Milyardo: I don't remeber what kernel version ESX is using
Milyardo: but its not that old
Milyardo: oh nevermind
Milyardo: my ESX server is running 2.4.21
Milyardo: thats too old
cxo_: no matter how well the api is interfaced in vmware, it has to go through mesa and a linux driver, which means doing what wine does
Milyardo: I wonder if VMware will ever ship a version of ESX that uses KVM for Hypervisor support
Deanjo: Bottom line is, for me anyways, it works.
cxo_: What games did you try?
Deanjo: Oh games such as UT04/Gun/C&C/etc
cxo_: heh, those all work well under wine
Deanjo: Not a big gamer so my game selection is limited but what I did try worked fine
cxo_: you would need to try something fancy like the UT3 engine which really uses multi-threaded directX to see if VMware can do some black magic or not
Deanjo: 3dsmax worked fine too (something that DOES NOT like wine at all)
cxo_: which version?
cxo_: sure its not using the twain driver
Deanjo: first thing I checked when I tried it out
cxo_: i suspect it's compatibility is not related to directX and such, since they have their own library
cxo_: you are running workstation 6 on linux with a 8800gt right?
Deanjo: heh, 3dsmax is the only app I really keep windows around for
Deanjo: Ya 8800GT's
cxo_: needs to test his freshly cooked toolchain
Deanjo: quick lock the door :P
Deanjo: I'm surprised there is no word on project offset @IDF with all the hype on larrabee.
Milyardo: Haven't heard of it, what project offset?
Deanjo: Project offset is probably one of the more advanced game engines in development
Milyardo: No Flash on this machine, I'll have to look at that alter
Deanjo: There was "plans" for a linux version before intel bought them. Now who knows.
Milyardo: There's still a chance, more of a chance than if any other company bought it, like say EA
Milyardo: So whats so advanced about this engine
Milyardo: It looks pretty
Deanjo: Physics/lighting/ai the graphics are jaw dropping
Milyardo: but from what I can tell thats only from see really high res textures
Deanjo: Lead devels are the same devels of Rune
Milyardo: The Lighting in the stills look to be about on par, but you can only tell so much about lighting in stills
Milyardo: Physics and AI require Vids too :P
Deanjo: Ya you have to see the video's to appreciate it
Deanjo: Best looking game IMHO
Deanjo: (then again I'm a sucker for D'n'Dish type games)
Milyardo: All the vids are WMV :(
Milyardo: Changing consoles to watch vids
Deanjo: They used to have xvid/mp4 versions available. What disturbs me, as soon as intel acquired them their forums were pulled.
Deanjo: Heh, so nvidia updated the 780a chipset for ACC support
Milyardo: No word from the Army yet, michaellarabel, How long should I wait?
michaellarabel: Couple days
Marox: monitoring works now, with this new fglrx :)
michaellarabel: Great :)
michaellarabel: It's been working out of my tree for a few weeks, so glad to hear it works for others too. What GPU?
Marox: 9800 pro.. i mean no hangs, no very big log files..
Marox: no information on gpu-things.. think it to old
Marox: probably a 'wont fix' thing ?
michaellarabel: Not unless ATI backports it, which won't happen
Marox: all power went to crossfire this release, as it seems
esters: And overdrive
Marox: anyone got a tainted kernel with this release ? (ubuntu 8.04)
Milyardo: I'm on inrepid so I don't know
esters: What does *tainted kernel* mean ?
redeeman: it means you load a driver which is most probably crap, and thus you loose support because there no way one can properly know what's going on
esters: How is that possible ?
Marox: dmesg | grep taint
Marox: [ 45.733305] fglrx: module license 'Proprietary. (C) 2002 - ATI Technologies, Starnberg, GERMANY' taints kernel.
redeeman: it's possible because, if your kernel crashes and writes out information to send for debugging, it will also write the taint status
redeeman: and should the kernel be tainted, people will loose mostly all interrest in your problem
redeeman: simply because they have zero way of debugging
Milyardo: I did a dmesg | grep taint on one of my VMs
Milyardo: I figure VMware drivers would have tainted the kernel
esters: But I still don´t get it :P
Milyardo: but it trurns nothing
esters: Is it a feature
Marox: feature :)
Marox: +1 line in the logs
Milyardo: Still why doesn't VMWare Tools taint the Kernel?
Deanjo: vmware tools is opensource I believe
Hibbelharry1: esters: it's just ati delivering a blackbox. if you hit any bugs when the driver is loaded no normal linux developer is able to say what went wrong in that blackbox. there is no documentation availabe for that inner things
esters: Aha, that explains everything
esters: This is because of the binary-only nature ?
esters: Thanks for the enlightment
Hibbelharry1: vmware is patially opensource i believe. not fully opensourced
Marox: but new for me.. did not happen with with the prev. (8.7) release
Hibbelharry1: and the same blackbox thing also applies to a lot of other drivers: nvidia, avm isdn + wlan, ....
Hibbelharry1: concerning ati, things might change over time since open source drivers are moving forward well....
Hibbelharry1: marox: i really thing your kernel should have been tainted as well with 8.7.
Hibbelharry1: and again: this is not really an error message. it's more kind of a reminder who you should bless to get support from when-things-go-wrong TM ;)
Deanjo: Hibbelharry1, the modules for vmware is opensource thus why it does not taint the kernel.
Marox: i check this again.. brb..
Marox: all the same.. seems i mixed up something :/
Marox: michaellarabel: do you know the minimum sys-requirements for the unigine-demo ?