Ivanovic: moin
vadi2: Ironic moment of the day: openusability.org is actually a kde website. Hosting their still unfinished kde 4 hig.
Elysium_: hi
Elysium_: nick d2kx
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: Catalyst 8.7: http://www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/ati-driver-installer-8-7-x86.x86_64.run
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/catalyst_87_linux.html
vadi2: hey. dell beat them to supporting ubuntu, lol.
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: seems like there's support for mobility radeons (x2000 and x3000 series) + hd 4000 series now
redeeman: are there actually any bugfixes or is the version number merely incremented?
vadi2: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/catalyst_87_linux.html
redeeman: holy crap it looks as though they fixed the bug i discovered
redeeman: ofcourse i don't trust it at all before i've confirmed it
redeeman: i still cant help but notice that the known issues section is a great deal bigger than the fixed issues section
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: the fixed issue section is never complete
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: always misses a lot of things
redeeman: lol so even their release announcements are incomplete, lol
redeeman: it does appear that it even contains errors, the release announcement
Ivanovic: it is nice to see that one issue is known *and* resolved...
Ivanovic: ;)
redeeman: yeah
redeeman: i noticed that too
redeeman: and speaking of their previous track record
redeeman: it's safest to wager that the bug is that it's listed in the resolved section
redeeman: hahahaha
Ivanovic: i had a look at the report
Ivanovic: and it does not cover everything
Ivanovic: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=35214
Ivanovic: it does not matter that this also happens when using kaffeine
Ivanovic: (xine backend)
Ivanovic: i have a 100% chance to reproduce this here when selecting dvb and using xv (textured video) for output
maligor: new ati drivers?
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: yep
maligor: no mention of the checkboard of doom issue
maligor: well, they fixed savage2, but not the checkerboard of death
vadi2: ?
maligor: new ati drivers
vadi2: what's a checkerboard of death
maligor: some weird alignment issue
maligor: but brb, I'll destroy the persistent storage too
bulletxt: hi, I'm an ati user from about 5 years. it's 5 years I read: just wait wait and see. 8.7 is just to make fun of us of course. please stop being pro-ati.
d2kx_WhoUsesMyNa: what problems do you have bulletxt
bulletxt: phoronix articles are to pro-ati when they don't deserve it. that's my problem
bulletxt: amd is taking more time to release ALL their documentation than dante alighieri took to write the Divina Commedia....
m-c: AMD is not ATI, you know?
m-c: ATI is just the name of AMD's video cards, now.
m-c: AMD is doing a good job on their promises to support Linux, bulletxt
bulletxt: I'll see wrinkles on my face before my 200€ gpu card works as it should under linux.
bulletxt: at least nvidia till now just works good 99% of the times. and I don't like nvidia.
bulletxt: anyways there are more important things in life, but phoronix should stop saying: wait wait. wait for what? to see my 200€ gpu be old and finally supported? no thanks! I don't pay gpu cards to use in 3 years but immediatly. do you buy bread to eat after 5 days? I don't.
bulletxt: it's also funny to see in the changelog: Ubuntu 8.04 production support. I've never seen such a silly sentence in an nvidia linux changelog. Is it a way to make "ignorant" users feel better making them think: "yeah, I have a WHQL driver just like on Windows!!". these things make me have a nice day.
m-c: cards cost $400 there? hmm ... just paid $100 for mine - most expensive one in the store was $250
m-c: Anyway, the AMD card I purchased has good Linux support under their RadeonHD driver. I would not have known about it at all, if it had not been for Phoronix. For whatever reason, this big news has been awfully quiet on mainstream tech sites.
Ivanovic: m-c: in germany 'heise' has mentioned it
Ivanovic: and this is one of the mainstream tech sites..
bulletxt: they work great? do you actually know what "works great" mean?
bulletxt: buy an ati 3870 X2 then tell me how much it you pay it
bulletxt: how can you have the courage to say that radeonhd works good
bulletxt: even windows 3.1 works well then.
bulletxt: I love phoronix, I never stated the contrary
bulletxt: I just wanted to say: they are pro-amd and this is not an opinion but a fact. it's not a problem. it's just a statement.
vadi2: they aren't pro-amd
vadi2: they cave into the pressure of the very vocal minority.
vadi2: so, deal with it and try to make best choices out of their articles
m-c: Ivanovic: That Germany -- such good coverage of Linux news. Makes me wish I could read the language.
bulletxt: if you aren't able to understand that phoronix is pro-amd I can't do anything about it. I can't explain evidence. If I see a chicken flying the only thing I can say is: a chicken is flying! There isn't much to say about it
bulletxt: anyways some one here talked about promises. nvidia never promised anything , but they shut up and work.
m-c: I do not disagree that Phoronix is Phoronix is pro-AMD
m-c: But I believe they have good reason to be biased in that way
vadi2: that's a point there :)
bulletxt: don't get me wrong, I love ati cards. but in 2 months I am planning to buy an high end gpu. I want an ati card, but I'm afraid to do the wrong thing knowing it before. its like putting your hand on a burning wood and then complaining about it-
bulletxt: and since I know that radeonhd driver won't let me play quake wars before summer 2009, It's not easy for me to decide. don't even mention fglrx drivers thanks ;)
m-c: You own Quakewars?
bulletxt: yes. but qw was just an example to say a game
bulletxt: there other things related to a 3d driver of course
m-c: For all the people I see complaining that some drivers won't let them play high-end games, I see very, very few people who actually purchased said game.
vadi2: There is a demo, you know.
bulletxt: I have qw, unreal 2004 and others
vadi2: Get the demo, see that it fails to work, complain, and of course don't buy the game.
m-c: If you are not buying linux games, then I do not think you have any credibility to complain about drivers that are not allowing you to play them
bulletxt: I just said I own the game
bulletxt: [20:03:21] I have qw, unreal 2004 and others
vadi2: I think you do.
vadi2: Why would you be stupid to buy a game that you can't play?
m-c: I mean in reference to the GPL graphic drivers
bulletxt: the answer is: to buy nvidia gpu
bulletxt: why should I make happy amd? I am the one thats paying
bulletxt: if I want to play I have the rights to play don't I?
m-c: Some people are saying they want the AMD open drivers as good as the closed NVIDIA drivers, so they can play their super high end video games, vadi2
vadi2: m-c: Um, isn't that the point?
m-c: I do not think they own the games
m-c: At least not the ones that I asked
vadi2: Right, because they can't play them anyway.
m-c: They are just complaining because they want to feel secure in their use of the nvidia drivers.
bulletxt: ok lets say X user wants to run Google Earth.
vadi2: Um
vadi2: If it's only nvidia drivers that allow them to play the games, then it's quite justifiable.
m-c: But I am saying that they do not
vadi2: They're still justified, since it's true.
m-c: But anyway, it is just a matter of time before all those games work anyway
m-c: http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram
bulletxt: m-c: time is precious
bulletxt: m-c: 200$ gpu card today is a 100$ card in 6 months
m-c: Google Earth works for the most part, mr bulletxt time is precious ;)
bulletxt: m-c: what gpu do you have?
vadi2: interesting chart
m-c: Speaking of time - I am out of this conversation. ;)
bulletxt: m-c: tell me your gpu card first ;)
bulletxt: vadi2: it was just an example to explain that I won't spend money on something that doesn't work "today"
vadi2: Wow
vadi2: Now don't you feel stupid when you go to a university that totally doesn't know what oss is, and a college that rents rooms *right inside* the uni gets into a linux.com article :(
Kano: did anybody try that crappy 8-7 driver? it really makes me sick
Kano: no wine running, no direct 2.6.26 support - although it was FINAL before the fglrx driver release
o1a-f: nvidia?
o1a-f: ah ati
Kano: no support for xserver 1.5rc but you find a Ubuntu/intrepid target. what a joke
Erektium: =)
Kano: the funny thing is: phoronix never writes something bad about a new driver, only mentions bug fixes (which I never found...)
Kano: bye
m-c: re: OSCON - interviews, michaellarabel , get some interviews
m-c: Keep a recorder running 24 / 7 ... I know you'll have some good conversations and ask many insightful questions
m-c: Get them off the record. If they go to OSCON and donot know who Michael Rabel is, then their own fault
michaellarabel: m-c: I have some interesting questions planned, but no formal sit-down interviews.
m-c: Carry a recorder and you'll have material for a dozen interview articles
m-c: I am hoping to cite many of your articles on my website! :-)
m-c: It's a slow news week.
m-c: is completely self-serving. ;)
vadi2: *sigh
vadi2: "Hello,   I've heard it works in Wine (the windows emulator).  We are considering a Linux version but are concerned about the difficulty of producing versions for all the different linux distributions.  We are also concerned that Linux users are so used to software being free that they may not be willing to pay in large numbers."
vadi2: bangs head against wall
michaellarabel: vadi2: Who said that?
vadi2: Nobody important, some vectorization program dev... but the myths are still there :\
michaellarabel: m-c: I usually just remember what was said and then type it within minutes after.
m-c: Great to hear. Glad to hear you are on the case.
michaellarabel: Make any progress with virtualized build environment?
m-c: Debian is a little monster. I keep getting frustrated and stopping. But I did spend another 3-4 hours on it and got the git packages set up.
m-c: michaellarabel: there is an #oscon channel - they are discussing dinner at a lebanese restaurant
michaellarabel: I have an evening of catch-up work to do :(
Deanjo: "Jungo Teams with Ralink Technologies to Enable Wi-Fi Connectivity in USB Devices
Deanjo: with Non-Native Wi-Fi
Deanjo: Jungo Ltd., a leading provider of USB software protocol stacks and tools for
Deanjo: driver development and testing, has joined with Ralink Technology Corporation to
Deanjo: develop a unique low-footprint USB based Wi-Fi solution."
Deanjo: interesting
m-c: please post citations to quotes, thank you
Deanjo: stick a usb stick on a device and walla wifi.
Deanjo: iPod USB protocol <--- I gotta wonder how they pulled that off
m-c: michaellarabel: You should stick around the #oscon channel, just for some extra insight into the conference.
michaellarabel: I'll check it out