cxo: ff3 hit some 10million downloads in day
cxo: ^in a day
cxo: must have annoyed microsoft
cxo: as a company it must feel weird, competing with a free product
Deanjo: Well bed time, later
CME: hi
CME: i have a problem with installing the latest nvidia driver on ubuntu 7.10 64bit, here is the log: http://rafb.net/p/DQr0kX54.html anybody an idea what wents wrong?
GNU\colossus: hello all
GNU\colossus: I'm looking for a (software) way to reduce my system fan's RPM count on an ASUS mobo (M2NPV-VM, Skt AM2) under GNU/Linux
GNU\colossus: does anyone know if that's at all possible?
redeeman: probably not easily
redeeman: do you know if it even supports it?
maligor: ATK0110 might, but haven't seen any real support for it
maligor: it's some sort of ACPI extension asus boards have for that, I don't however know if it exposes controls
maligor: and last time I looked there was only basic sensor read functionality
GNU\colossus: redeeman: yes, it got this qfan stuff in the bios
GNU\colossus: doesn't throttle enough however
GNU\colossus: yeah it works with pwmconfig
redeeman: http://yahoorezinr.com/
redeeman: Deanjo: what motherboard does one need to run phenom 3ghz?
cxo: any AM2 board
redeeman: i heard lots of stuff about how "normal" motherboards are crappy at phenom
redeeman: but since deanjo can do it, he must have a good board :)
maligor: isn't AM2+ the socket to use with phenoms
Deanjo: redeeman, I use the Asus M3N-HT Deluxe
Deanjo: http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=646&l4=0&model=2097&modelmenu=1
redeeman: nvidia chipset :|
Deanjo: Only the best
redeeman: im never having nvidia chipset again
Deanjo: Well stick with intel procs and chipsets then I guess, because on the AMD procs, all other chipsets are currently crap
Exopaladin: nvidia chipsets are the best on AMD boards, have been for a long time
redeeman: i thought the amd chipsets werent too bad?
Deanjo: Really crappy southbridge
Deanjo: slow USB, botched NCQ, etc
redeeman: Exopaladin: so that means nvidia has stopped making chipsets which crash extremely often, have annoying dma bugs, corruption bugs, disk killing bugs etc?
redeeman: Deanjo: when will a proper amd southbridge come?
Deanjo: Never had any of those issues and I've owned NF2,3,5,7 series
Exopaladin: well, I can't say I've ever had any of those issues with an nvidia based board
redeeman: disk killing bug was a pleasure of nforce1
redeeman: i personally had it
Exopaladin: I've used NF2/4, currently running Intel though
Deanjo: Probably when they finally develop a true AMD southbridge
redeeman: do you know when that happens?
Deanjo: Hopefully with the 750 southbridge
redeeman: oh well, i guess ill just wait for that
Exopaladin: the next PC I build in August/Septemberish will probably be Intel again, unless AMD pull something really special out their arse
redeeman: not requiring nvidia chipset would be a good start
cxo: amd is to release 8 core, cpus end of 3rd quarter this year
Deanjo: The 45 nm Denebs should be out by Oct
Exopaladin: there's really nothing wrong with the nvidia chipsets these days
redeeman: just the fact that they are nvidia is enough
Exopaladin: the nforce1 ones were dodgy, yes, they learnt their lesson after that :P
redeeman: nforce2/3 sucked aswell
redeeman: haven't heard of many issues with nforce4
Exopaladin: nforce2 was good
Deanjo: I never had issue with the 2's and 3's
redeeman: but i still don'ttrust them
redeeman: there were lots of corruption issues on nforce3
redeeman: and nforce2 was very unstable for lots of people
Exopaladin: nf2 was the best you could get for K7 really
redeeman: i have seen lots of such systems
Deanjo: I didn't see any corruption
redeeman: Deanjo: well others did, they did manage to make workarounds though
cxo: i felt that all the nforce chipsets were very good
cxo: but i only owned the nforce2 and 4
Exopaladin: the only corruption issues I heard of were on early boards that didn't properly lock things that people then tried to overclock on
redeeman: yes i myself find them very good too, when neading something to practise longrange rifle shooting with
Deanjo: The only time that I saw issues with them were when they were coupled to a 939 proc for which they were really never intended for
Deanjo: The NF3 was designed for S754
redeeman: nf3 boards with socket 939 were made
redeeman: and sold in big quantity
Deanjo: But some MB manufacturers used them with 939's to offer an AGP slot
redeeman: i have had big troubles with it on an asus board
redeeman: with pci express
redeeman: the shit crashes every day
redeeman: im glad it's not mine
Deanjo: All my NF3's were used on S754 boards
Exopaladin: I never used NF3, my first 939 board had a VIA K8T800Pro chipset
redeeman: my 754 boards has via chipset too
Exopaladin: that wasn't actually bad, stable, overclocked semi-reasonably
redeeman: mine works not too good
redeeman: i cant get the memory to run at it's proper frequency
Deanjo: I could get a true 3200 Mhz on that S754 with the NF3 on a windsor 3200+
redeeman: and also, there is a WEIRD bios thing
redeeman: for some reason
redeeman: after a setting i did in bios
redeeman: grub now takes ~2 sec to get to menu
redeeman: where you see the "grub loading stage bllba" message
redeeman: and it didn't always do that
redeeman: and i tried changing all settings, couldnt get it to be fast again
redeeman: it seems very random which motherboards have fast grub or not
Exopaladin: can't say I had any issues like that on mine, but then it wasn't a 754
redeeman: well it's not really an "issue", just weird
Deanjo: My next project is to get Grub and /boot on the splashtop
Deanjo: (as well as some utils like memtest)
Deanjo: Running skype, browser and such on it seems like a waste
Deanjo: starts looking at the 10,000 pulse audio bugs
redeeman: starts looking at his pulseaudio... whoops, he doesent use pulseaudio!
Deanjo: lol smart man
Deanjo: Distro's should have let it matured more before starting to include it in it's present "very broken" stage
redeeman: ill bet it's the setup that's broken
Deanjo: Well what's broken is when an app trys to access alsa it's forces that app to run through pulse and then back to alsa
Deanjo: causes all types of mixing and latency issues
Deanjo: dmix and pulse don't like each other
maligor: why would anyone use dmix with pulse
Exopaladin: because not everything supports pulse yet and if you don't have a card that has hardware mixing you can't use sound from a non-supported app without either killing pulse or using dmix :P
maligor: well, you can't output from dmix to pulse for sure, since dmix wants a hw device
Deanjo: Ya that causes a whole shitload of issues with games, video apps, etc
maligor: Deanjo, I see your choice of mbs has a mad heatpipe setup :P
Deanjo: Ya, don't use it though
Deanjo: you can remove the memheat pipe
maligor: I'd go with amd chipsets tho
Deanjo: The only reason I got it was because the non-deluxe mem heatpipe wasn't available locally
maligor: advanced features in nvidia stuff seem to have to be dragged out with maximum resistance out of nvidia, reverse engineered or forgotten
Exopaladin: pulse needs a lot more time before being shipped as the default option, either that or simply finding a way to make it play nice with dmix
Deanjo: They should have just improved the alsa API instead of adding more shit servers
Deanjo: Pulse is nothing but a bandaid
Exopaladin: currently I'm actually using 4Front OSS on this box because alsa/dmix just aren't that great on the onboard intel audio on this board
maligor: Exopaladin, heh, don't blame alsa for that
maligor: intel-hda is a friggen mistake
Exopaladin: eh, they've had years to work on dmix and it's only starting to approach the level of the 4Front software mixer :/
maligor: beats me why they didn't design it properly
Deanjo: Like I said before, every other OS is trying to get more "bare-to-the-metal" for accessing hardware and linux audio tries to do the exact opposite
cxo: you mean n00b audio
maligor: Deanjo, like Vista? :P
cxo: i run a low latency jack server with a preempt-rt kernel
maligor: Vista's audio system could be compared to pulse really
Exopaladin: what I want is a sound card that with hardware channel mixing support under alsa and optical out
Exopaladin: s/with/has
Deanjo: Ya and we all know how well that worked out maligor
cxo: you want an old creative
maligor: Exopaladin, mm.. I have one of those
cxo: or a pro card
maligor: Exopaladin, but do realize that hw mixing with spdif is problematic
Deanjo: Hardware mixing is not really needed nowdays
Exopaladin: there were only a few of the old creatives that had optical out unfortunately, and those aren't that easy to find anymore
maligor: EMU cards have optical outputs
maligor: but hw mixing is useless if you want more than 2 channels in digital out
maligor: because you can't mix encoded streams
maligor: well.. can't practically anyway, I'm sure one could come up with some mad algorithm if you combine them
Deanjo: Well that would have to be all done on the software side then anyways maligor
maligor: yes
Deanjo: defeats the whole idea of HW mixing lol
maligor: you have to mix them first, and then encode the stream
cxo: doesnt even have a sound card
cxo: (in my pc at least)
Deanjo: Now on the old Soundstorm chip that was a reality
Exopaladin: realistically I'll probably just stick with my onboard intel + OSS for now, it works ok anyway
maligor: for multichannel digital, you can just aswell get the cheapest card you can find
Deanjo: as the digital out was hardware encoded
Deanjo: misses soundstorm
maligor: yeah, dunno, I haven't looked at the emu architechture much, maybe it's possible to do that on it also
Exopaladin: I ended up using my SB Live card instead of soundstorm at the time, as the soundstorm had no hardware mixing, dmix was crappy, and I didn't need/want optical out then
Exopaladin: well, it had no support for the hardware mixing in alsa I should say
maligor: Exopaladin, oh and there are coax->optical boxes available
maligor: from m-audio for one
cxo: misses turtle beach and echo
maligor: M-Audio CO2
maligor: costs as much as a low end audio card too
Deanjo: If your receiver has coax input you might as well use it instead
Deanjo: coax still has greater bandwidth then the optical
Exopaladin: doesn't make a ton of difference when you're using hda-intel, it's all crap :P
Exopaladin: but yeah, coax is an option if I can find a decently priced card
maligor: Exopaladin, umm.. for digital outputs the chip doesn't really matter
maligor: unless the signalling components are crappy enough to give biterrors
Exopaladin: I was more referring to the fact that dmix is horrible on hda-intel
maligor: oh, right
Exopaladin: or at least it is on my board
Deanjo: Really good cheap digital out card is the Chaintech AV-710
Exopaladin: can't buy those here, I've looked :/
cxo: ebay
Deanjo: All you have to do is flash the prom for bit-perfect out
maligor: just invest in ADAT Instead
Deanjo: Heh, which reminds me, anybody wan't to buy a slightly used Sony DAT :P
Exopaladin: heh, none on ebay that'll ship to the UK either
maligor: or MADI :P
maligor: MADI supports 64 channels over coax or optic
maligor: oh well, one can dream
cxo: adat heh
Exopaladin: it's annoying that all anyone seems to carry is the stupid X-Fi cards
Deanjo: I like my 8788 based cards
maligor: Exopaladin, where at?
maligor: I've noticed that trend a bit too
Exopaladin: most UK stores
maligor: I can find Asus Xonar's too tho
Deanjo: Ya, good cards in linux
Exopaladin: yeah, I'm seeing Xonar/Creative/Auzentech
maligor: and m-audio, and terratec and razer :P
Deanjo: If you can find a Auzentech X-Meridian in stock somewhere it kicks ass
maligor: Exopaladin, www.thomann.de
maligor: fantastic shop for audio gear
Exopaladin: all I really want is something cheap with either coax or toslink out that's well supported with dmix, surprisingly hard to find :/
Deanjo: Any Cmedia chipset card will give you that
Exopaladin: the Chaintech would be perfect if I could find somewhere that'd ship one to me :P
maligor: ordering from thomann rather requires to buy in quantity tho
Exopaladin: ah
maligor: they add shipping charges
maligor: but they sell cheaper :P
Exopaladin: eh, shipping costs aren't any worse than some of the places I regularly buy computer stuff from here
Exopaladin: I'm not sure I'd want to order from them if I lived in Finland though :P
maligor: how so?
Exopaladin: Norway even, 30 euros for shipping to Norway :/
maligor: some of the stuff they sell are hundreds of euros cheaper than locally
Exopaladin: fair enough then
maligor: at the more expensive end
maligor: and quite a lot of their stock is hard to find locally also
Exopaladin: most of their stuff is probably cheaper than what we pay here, the UK gets ripped off on electronics stuff quite badly in general
maligor: yeh, better to order from germany
Exopaladin: hm, cheap TerraTec Aureon card here with a C-Media chip that has toslink out
cxo: da fatherland
cxo: terratec is a good sound card
Exopaladin: certainly couldn't have much worse dmix support than my hda-intel junk
maligor: what's the problem with hda-intel dmix support anyway?
Exopaladin: generally I just find it to be rather dodgy and not work properly all the time, I've heard of other people complaining too (although it's marginally better in the more recent releases)
cxo: if you have poor support on your sound card, its good to update against alsa manually
cxo: as kernel.org usually has predated versions of alsa
cxo: linus is lazy with pulling in updates from alsa hg
Exopaladin: yeah
maligor: they moved to git now
maligor: maybe he'll be less lazy
redeeman: Exopaladin: dmix works without problems on my intel-hda
maligor: biggest issue with intel-hda is the manufacturers anyway
Exopaladin: there's a shedload of different intel-hda chips, redeeman
redeeman: yeah
cxo: git is so freakin complicated
maligor: the alsa driver is full of quirks for specific models and a huge table of laptop and motherboard specific settings
redeeman: mine has realtek alc889a
Exopaladin: Analog Devices AD1988B here
Exopaladin: there's not many boards that use it by the look of things
cxo: gets no satisfaction
cxo: ain't get no
cxo: gets no girly action
cxo: but i try! and i try!
cxo: ain't get no
cxo: the 4870 is coming out on monday?
cxo: http://www.vrforums.com/showthread.php?t=292126
cxo: heh the ati drivers are so shit, the vr guys werent able to bench the cards with 4way, or 3way xfire
Exopaladin: I can't say I care about xfire based benchmarks anyway, generally by the time you need two of a card you can get a new card that outperforms two of the previous gen and will work on all games/etc :P
cxo: my psu would die with xfire setup
cxo: i have a 500watt psu, running 4 hard drives, and a AMD64 4200+ x2
cxo: and i want to throw in a 4870
cxo: hopefully i wont need to upgrade the psu
Exopaladin: I need to upgrade mine, my 580W isn't enough to properly power up 10 HDDs + 8800GT + E6600
Exopaladin: it'd be fine if the drives supported staggered spinup
cxo: initial current draw too much huh.... i guess you could fish around the junk yard for an old psu and dedicate it to your hard drives
cxo: what board are you using with 10hard drives?
Exopaladin: P5B Deluxe, I only have one drive on the onboard SATA though, the rest are on a 3ware card
cxo: oh
cxo: you must have raid?
cxo: sw or hw?
Exopaladin: hardware, being that it's on a 3ware card :P
cxo: what level of raid?
Exopaladin: 6x300GB in RAID 5, 3x500GB in RAID 5 which I'll eventually expand to 6x500GB
cxo: what is the write throughput you get to the array?
Exopaladin: I've not actually benchmarked, speed isn't the objective anyway really
cxo: do you lvm it together?
Exopaladin: nope
Exopaladin: I want access to the media partitions from windows, which is why I don't use lvm
cxo: oh
cxo: i have 3x500gb + swraid + lvm
cxo: on an nvidia sata controller
Exopaladin: yeah, I'd have done software raid if there was software raid that was supported by linux + windows
cxo: i doubt its hard to write the md driver for windows
cxo: just no one has bothered to
redeeman: what raid controller do you use?
redeeman: Exopaladin ^^ :)
Exopaladin: 3ware 9500S-12
redeeman: i just really don't trust hardware raid
cxo: neither do i
Exopaladin: I don't trust motherboard 'hardware' raid, but I do trust 3ware/LSI/Areca cards
redeeman: 3ware cards are nothing more trustworthy
redeeman: they typically all use completely different layouts and headers in beginning of drive
cxo: only people who have the same problem as u (share data between windows/linux) use motherboard raid
redeeman: basically, you are screwed if you don't have a spare controller around, and it dies
Exopaladin: the problem is that most motherboard raid is really quite crap in linux
Exopaladin: slow/stupidly high CPU use/pain in the ass to get working/etc
redeeman: motherboard raid is basically never anything but software raid
Exopaladin: yes, that's rather the problem
cxo: linux raid is the best
Exopaladin: agreed
redeeman: and it's really easy
redeeman: one should simply just stick to OS's capable of using it
Exopaladin: when wine has a 100% compatibility with windows games, I will :P
Exopaladin: or vmware has full DX support in guests, either way
redeeman: that's a lame reason to use a crap OS
vadi2: lol
Exopaladin: it's not my fault that the games companies insist on developing for a shit OS
redeeman: yes it is
redeeman: when you accept it
cxo: its not hard writing platform independent code, the problem lies in that there is no directX for anything except windows
redeeman: that's not a problem
redeeman: solution: opengl
cxo: its not that simple
redeeman: yes it is
redeeman: and as far as input/networking goes
cxo: no it isnt
redeeman: that's a really easy part
vadi2: clearly, redeeman is a high-level game programmer.
cxo: nope
cxo: yes vadi2
cxo: hah
redeeman: i am a software developer yes
cxo: you dont know much
vadi2: I meant a professional game programmer.
redeeman: using opengl instead of direct3d is no problem at all
cxo: the api is completely different, it works completely differently to, its not a matter of #ifdef'ing everything
redeeman: lol cxo
cxo: you cant write dx and opengl in parallel
redeeman: ofcourse you can
redeeman: simply create 2 renderers
redeeman: but theres no need
redeeman: just create ONE opengl renderer
cxo: have you written in directx before?
redeeman: yes
cxo: its very very different to opengl
redeeman: first off, directx is not to be compared to opengl
redeeman: direct3d is
redeeman: and it's basically the same
Exopaladin: although you could purely use OGL + SDL unless you're wanting the Xbox 360 as one of your target platforms
redeeman: and any developer that would dare call himself a developer, could easily do in opengl instead of direct3d
vadi2: That's the thing.
redeeman: well for other systems you use opengl
redeeman: and basically all games targetting more than winblows+pc has an opengl renderer anyway
redeeman: they just don't bother releasing for linux
Exopaladin: it's a shame that EA have started 'porting' games using cedega for OS X :/
redeeman: ea sucks anyway
vadi2: Yeah, they should've at least added linux
vadi2: like ccp did.
cxo: in north america, does everyone who owns a pick-up have a dwarf as well?
cxo: whats with the little space behind the cabin
vadi2: stuff
Exopaladin: my comment was more to do with the fact that they're claiming using cedega is a port, rather than the lack of targeting linux too :P
cxo: whats the bed for?
vadi2: Exopaladin: it's better than nothing, and it's a financially smart choice to do. not technologically though
Exopaladin: especially as loads of people ended up complaining because it didn't work all that well
Exopaladin: at least on some of the games
vadi2: I hope they didn't take the "don't bother with alternative platforms, not worth it" lesson.
Exopaladin: it could've been great had they actually ported it :/
vadi2: Crap, my japanese in java might not work, according to opensuse 11.
Exopaladin: I wish I could figure out why I can't get the fonts configured right in OpenSUSE 11
cxo: i downloaded suse11 too
cxo: i want to try the new opensolaris first...
vadi2: I'm not so happy with opensuse atm. for one I failed to find an upgrade option anywhere and had to reinstall
Exopaladin: I wasn't that impressed with it as a whole
Exopaladin: Fedora 9 I quite liked, aside from the fact that they ship pulseaudio and I get the same stupid issue with wine as I do in Gentoo :/
cxo: yum remove pulse*
cxo: yum remove yum-updates*
Exopaladin: I know, it was one of the first things I did :P
cxo: yum remove NetworkManager*
Exopaladin: some other stuff tries to pull it back in though, which is annoying
Exopaladin: moot point though when I get the stupid wine issue that makes no sense :/
cxo: i have fedora9 x86_64 installed, moved from fedora7
cxo: i feel that i should have just stuck with fedora7
Exopaladin: I really would love to figure out what causes this wine issue for me
Exopaladin: it's something common between Gentoo and FC9 but not Ubuntu
cxo: whine you mean?
cxo: or wine?
cxo: like the windows api translator
Exopaladin: I mean wine the api translator :P
cxo: whats wrong with it?
Exopaladin: in FC9/Gentoo I get a fairly meaningless raise_exception error when I try to start Steam games, under Ubuntu it's fine. however, if I get precompiled wine from somewhere else for Gentoo (dpkg/Mandriva RPM) it's fine
cxo: weird
Exopaladin: yeah
Exopaladin: I'd guess there's some patch that's common between FC9/Gentoo somewhere that fucks up wine when you compile it against that lib
Exopaladin: it's fairly perplexing really, it'd make more sense if it completely failed even with a different copy of wine
cxo: i'd compile my own wine actually, its big but its easier for debugging
Exopaladin: yeah, I do anyway when I'm running gentoo :P
Exopaladin: I should test with Slackware or something else that tends to avoid applying patches to everything like Fedora/Gentoo
cxo: constantly changing distro just for wine, even when you have windows installed, isnt a bit mentally retarded?
Exopaladin: I'm more just trying to figure out what is causing the problem
Exopaladin: right now it's not actually a case of changing distro for wine, it's just that I *really* want to find out what is causing the issue :P
cxo: you install on your pc or on a virtual machine?
Exopaladin: my PC, I have a spare partition I use for testing distros
cxo: i'm deciding whether to go for an old range rover or a 4870x2
cxo: i need something for the winter this year, but i also want to play games :(
cxo: what a predicament
acehole: surely a shiny graphics card is a good investment for winter? It'll keep you warm!
Exopaladin: you can stay home all winter playing games instead :P
redeeman: damn i wish i had 8gb ram :|
redeeman: Exopaladin: gentoo uses many patches from fedora
Exopaladin: yeah
cxo: who doesnt, redhat seems to be the only people pushing patches upstream at a regular rate
cxo: the price of ddr1 memory has gone up like crazy
cxo: its now twice the price of ddr2
Exopaladin: yeah, it's quite ridiculous
Exopaladin: luckily I don't have any PCs using DDR1 that I intend to shove any more RAM in
cxo: my pc is soon for retirement to file server, but i thought maybe i can get a few more years out of it with extra ram and a new video card
cxo: amd4200,2gb ram, nvidia 7600
cxo: its the old skt 939, so putting in a phenom is out of the question
Exopaladin: 939 CPUs are probably cheap if you can get them though
cxo: bought it in 2006
cxo: the best you can get is what... 4800+?
Exopaladin: dunno, I stopped paying attention to AMD once the C2D CPUs came out *looks*
cxo: i think my board with take an opteron too
cxo: its an asus a8n-sli premium
cxo: asus is not to clear about which fx though
cxo: damn the fx60 is an expensive cpu
cxo: $300 bucks on ebay, and 1 day left for the auction
Exopaladin: http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=A8N-SLI%20Premium
Exopaladin: takes everything up to the FX-60 as long as you do a bios update
cxo: the fx60 is the top of the line opteron for 939
cxo: how do you get the old cpu charts on tomshardware
cxo: it only shows the 2007 cpus
Exopaladin: hm, not sure.. they used to have an archive link I thought, gone now though
cxo: or maybe i should just figure out how to overclock this thing properly
cxo: i have a huge cooler on it, but i can never get anything more than 200mhz overclock stable
cxo: stock clock is 2.2ghz
cxo: does the opensource ati driver have 3d support?
cxo: (working stable, actually usable by humans, support)
Exopaladin: there was an article on phoronix about it a while back, some stuff works, some doesn't
cxo: this open solaris 200805 is actually very nice
cxo: a little on the slow side though
cxo: (the live cd)
cxo: The official ati 4870 website is up
cxo: check it out http://www.unleashonetera.com/
cxo: nudges michaellarabel
michaellarabel: cxo: Yeah...
michaellarabel: 4870 series is fairly nice
cxo: i am dieing to see benchmarks
cxo: needs something shiny to touch
michaellarabel: cxo: Should have some out Wednesday... Trying to work out an issue whether its a graphics bug or just a CPU bottleneck.
cxo: only europeans stores are listing the card...at the moment
cxo: if ati fuks this card up, i swear i'm doing a drive by at their office
cxo: (its only down the road from where i work)
redeeman: it's probably for the best that the nvidia offices arent near me
michaellarabel: vadi2: So what all do you have done with the GUI>
cxo: are you guys doing a gui for pts?
cxo: michaellarabel, ^
vadi2: yep
michaellarabel: Tremulous test profile now in PTS...
michaellarabel: cxo: Yeah, vadi2 is working on it.
vadi2: michaellarabel: pm coming soon, as soon as this thing uploads...
cxo: i'd like to be part of that, if possible
michaellarabel: cxo: Sure!
vadi2: sure.
cxo: i'm fluent with gtk+, glade and java swing
vadi2: Oh excellent!
michaellarabel: cxo: I think vadi2 is doing it in glade, great.
vadi2: I am in fact. Uploading a very rough draft to get an approval for the direction ;)
cxo: glade is good for prototyping, but not as a full featured gui
cxo: because the layout becomes predominantly static if you rely on the xml
vadi2: Well, I am prototyping right now.
vadi2: Not at all, you're free to modify it in the program.
cxo: yeah i know, but why mix
vadi2: because it's easier to maintain.
michaellarabel: cxo: You offering to port it then to all GTK? :P
cxo: i could do that, yes
michaellarabel: I am for either, it doesn't matter to me. And PHP GTK handles both GTK (obviously) and I then found out (I think it was from vadi2) that it supports glade XML files too.
cxo: personally, i think the simpler the better, clean c99 and gtk
vadi2: Sure, but design changes will be nearly impossible later in the future as glade can't read c.
michaellarabel: cxo: pts-core will continue to be all PHP for portability reasons, ease of use, etc.
cxo: php has bindings for gtk?
michaellarabel: Yes, you just need to load a PHP-GTK module.
redeeman: yes but i don't believe they are default
redeeman: isn't it a pecl thing?
vadi2: http://oops.opsat.net/ and http://www.kksou.com/php-gtk2 say yep.
michaellarabel: http://gtk.php.net
michaellarabel: I've been using PHP-GTK since 2005 with good results.
cxo: i've never programmed in php :)
michaellarabel: cxo: It's easy to pick up
cxo: vadi2, are you working out of source control?
vadi2: I'm simply prototyping right now.
vadi2: So yes, not much point in source control
vadi2: michaellarabel: check pm's
vadi2: cxo: have a phoronix forum account?
cxo: yes
vadi2: what is it
cxo: "cruiseoveride"
cxo: hmm, fedora repos, dont seem to have php-gtk2
michaellarabel: cxo: No, but easy to build from scratch
cxo: just looked at some php code, looks really easy, like shell script
vadi2: let's decide on that later, both check pms and see if the basic design direction is okay.
cxo: k
Exopaladin: yeah, PHP is fairly nice
Exopaladin: although I've never tried it for non-web stuff
michaellarabel: vadi2: What's the difference between Run tests/suies and install test/suites? The first just showing installed tests and the other showing all available tests?
vadi2: michaellarabel: first shows all tests/suites, second shows non-installed ones
michaellarabel: vadi2: Yeah, okay.
michaellarabel: Looks good prototype... One possible thing to consider may be sorting by Hardware category too... like Graphics, Processor, etc... then when you click that, to extend down all tests within that type. Though I think I would make that a view option.
vadi2: Excellent point
cxo: GTK_TreeModel
cxo: (or whatever it would be called in php)
michaellarabel: Originally that was one of my GUI ideas was having two menus with the left being for the different categories and the right one then showing tests within that type, etc. Though your layout is simpler and takes up less space, so would be better.
cxo: run "gtk-demo" from the console, and select Tree View-> List Store
cxo: double click "List Store"
cxo: that will be nice to select the tests
cxo: using checkboxes, and grey out the ones, not installed
vadi2: Well for one, you'll be able to select multiple tests in the pts
vadi2: that listview only allows one at a time
vadi2: I don't like the checkbox idea though.
cxo: you can select multiple
vadi2: (not in the demo)
cxo: using the checkboxes
cxo: you cannot highlight more than one
cxo: well you can, but thats usually used for drag/drop
vadi2: Right, that's what I meant. should be able to highlight more than one.
vadi2: shift or ctrl+ click > clicking on every checkbox
cxo: why do you need to highlight more than one, i dont get that?
cxo: dont you just tick off the tests you want, and hit go?
vadi2: shift or ctrl+ click is faster, easier, and better than clicking on every checkbox
cxo: but checkboxes are static, you can save the configuration
vadi2: I don't see a need for doing that
cxo: and you would need to hold ctl, while scrolling to select more tests, and a lot of keyboards dont like that
cxo: vadi2, say you want to give your friends your test setup, so he/she can run the same config?
vadi2: you mean the same tests
cxo: yes
vadi2: I'm sure it'll be faster for them to select it rather than opening a file you sent them
cxo: how many tests are we talking here? there are hundreds right?
michaellarabel: cxo: Right now about 60 tests in main
vadi2: actually, you'll be able to do it regardless
vadi2: because of the global tag things.
cxo: do you really want to highlight so many tests
vadi2: no, you won't have to.
cxo: and then watch out that you dont lose focus on them?
vadi2: just paste the global id thing and you're set.
cxo: this gui will be independent of the cli right?
michaellarabel: cxo: It will be separate from the cli, they will function independently, but will all ship together.
cxo: how do you plan to drive the gui? using php directly to the backend? or controlling stdin to the cli version?
michaellarabel: cxo: I am thinking of it communicate directly to pts-core, that'll be the best way.
vadi2: bbl.
cxo: so for example, say you wanted to get a listing of tests available, you would have to load the pts-core module and, then call some function, is that right?
michaellarabel: Yes, that's how it will be. Functions for some things don't exist right now, but are all easily ready for function-izing shortly.
cxo: sounds good
cxo: well someone needs to draw up a road map
cxo: and divisionalise the work
cxo: then just throw me a bone
cxo: actually, you know what, i'll do the build system for you guys right away, as a sign of good faith
michaellarabel: cxo: The build system for...?
cxo: the build the code?
cxo: ^to build the code
michaellarabel: PHP is ran as a script, it will be easy to already incorporate the GUI into the existing PTS setup.
cxo: oh, i thought you had to compile it
Exopaladin: I seem to recall that you can compile it, but you don't have to
michaellarabel: I think there are some programs where you can convert PHP into a byte-code that runs atop another program for security and speed purposes.
cxo: michaellarabel, hey did you test opensolaris under vmware or a real machine?
michaellarabel: vadi2: And then at the bottom of the GUI, how about a drop down menu for selecting between displaying tests and suites?
michaellarabel: cxo: When? I've ran OpenSolaris in so many configurations...
cxo: in the recent article
cxo: for express
michaellarabel: SXCE was on a notebook
cxo: under vmware its completely unusable for me
vadi2: michaellarabel: click on 'View'
michaellarabel: vadi2: Oops :) Though a drop down menu may be a good thing for it to, in order to quickly switch. And for those that overlook View :)
vadi2: Ok, I'll think on it
michaellarabel: but yeah, very nice job so far.
cxo: i'm gonna get some food,
cxo: i'll volunteer to help you guys, just stub the code you need done and let me know
vadi2: thanks much :)
michaellarabel: vadi2: grep TestType pts/test-profiles/*
michaellarabel: m-c: Hi
Exopaladin: grr, my version of libtool is too new to compile php-gtk without hacking the autoconf-related stuff
vadi2: There are compiled versions of it available on some websites
cxo: really?
cxo: the libtool distros ship are usually ancient
Brains: Okay, so I'm officially annoyed. (Difficulties getting my new 4850 to do dual monitors @ 1680x1050.)
m-c: That is an AMD ATI-model card, Brains ?
vadi2: I believe so, nvidia would be way too old for that
Brains: Yeah, the Radeon HD4850 or something like that.
michaellarabel: Brains: What driver?
m-c: Brains: I just did that same setup on a 3650
m-c: and what distribution?
Brains: michaellarabel: fglrx to start with, I'm going to try radeonhd later. I thought that the ati driver would be more likely to support the new card with little trouble. Silly me... *chuckle*
Brains: Gentoo
michaellarabel: radeonhd has no 4850 support yet
Brains: amends that to substantially later. He wasn't thinking near term.
m-c: Brains: I added this to my x configuration - it helped with getting dual monitors working with the radeonHD driver. YMMV >> http://pastebin.ca/1053159
vadi2: nice humour: http://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/tux-love/2006/05/propeller_head_dept.html
Deanjo: writes note to self. "Install gcc before trying to run compilation tests"
Brains: m-c: Cool, I was actually thinking something like that might be my next step... Are you using the bigdesktop thing or something else?
Deanjo: Amazing how much better the kernel compile test runs when you have gcc installed :P
cxo: heh
Brains: Deanjo: You can't fail if you can't compile...
cxo: god i need power tools
cxo: it just took me 30mims to saw 30" of 1inch pine
cxo: and my arms broken
Deanjo: Really good test times too. 0.7 seconds to compile the kernel according to PTS
cxo: i'm typing with my left hand
Deanjo: When gcc isn't installed
cxo: that needs to be fixed
cxo: hay Brains, congrats on your new 4850
cxo: how do you like it so far?
Deanjo: michaellarabel, are you going to put gmpbench-0.1 into the 1.2 branch?
michaellarabel: Deanjo: I think gmpbench can go in PTS 1.0 just fine, but I had some problems when I spent a few minutes trying to get a profile built for it.
Deanjo: oh ok
Deanjo: issues with gexpr?
michaellarabel: That may have been it
Deanjo: I had to modify the runbench script to insert a ./ before ever call to it
Deanjo: to get it to work
Deanjo: example: n2=`gexpr $n2+1` had to be changed to n2=`./gexpr $n2+1`
michaellarabel: By chance have you written a shell script to handle the entire local installation? Then it would be very easy for me to throw it into PTS.
Deanjo: shouldn't be hard. I'll whip one up tomorrow
Deanjo: Got some company coming in a bit
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Great :) Look at the other install.sh files for more information. Heck, after that, it's rather simple to make a PTS profile.
michaellarabel: m-c: You there?
Brains: cxo: In windows it is a far cry from the 7600GS... Of course, since I've not gotten it to work right under X, it is a far cry from the 7600GS there too...
cxo: interesting use of far-cry
cxo: i have a 7600gs
cxo: i'm planing on getting a 4870x2 when they come out
Brains: has only played the demo of Far Cry if he recalls correctly...
Brains: I can crash X via amdcccle, does that count as progress?
cxo: i played quite a bit of far cry
cxo: how does the image quality compare Brains
cxo: ati usually has richer colours
michaellarabel: Brains: how are you crashing it?
michaellarabel: Brains, you there or did amdcccle crash X again?
Deanjo: lol "Can you hear me now?"
Brains: michaellarabel: Heh, I've crashed multiple times in the past few minutes. All I did was go to the display page and click on the enable display button of either display (disabling it). It crashes X and apparently leaves something in an interesting state as the next startx or so will lock up the machine. (
Brains: cxo: It certainly is pretty, but, again, jumping from the 7600GS, I'd expect pretty much everything to look much better.
cxo: heh
cxo: yes i like the card too
Brains: seems to recall the benchmarks (under Windows, of course) to show a minimum of 3X and, under some conditions, potentially more than 10X performance...
cxo: but i'd rather have a clear plastic cover exposing its guts, than that picture of the ati girl
Deanjo: unless she was naked
michaellarabel: Brains: Does it crash if you use aticonfig to try to toggle the monitors?
cxo: nah, i think i'd prefer the clear plastic
Brains: The one I got was a Visiontek and it has tinted but unadorned plastic over the heatsink. Thinking about going accelero though... 80C temps are a bit much for my taste even though it seems to be happy enough.
Deanjo: isn't that what most hollywood starlets made up of anyways cxo? Clear plastic?
cxo: heh
Brains: Deanjo: I don't generally flay or vivisect starlets so I'll plead ignorance on the color of their plastic...
Brains: michaellarabel: I'll try it. I believe that I get some oddities but not an outright crash. (Dunno if it matters but apparently it is tmds2i which works and tmds1 which doesn't.)
Deanjo: dammit, no matter what I do I can't seem to break 1.9 seconds with the sqlite test
Brains: michaellarabel: It killed the current X and left "something" in a state that caused starting up X again to lock the machine even though I'd rmmod'ed fglrx and reinserted it.
Brains: It did dump something in the logs though, need to look at that.
michaellarabel: Brains: If there is something, post link here or email it to michael [at] phoronix.com please.
michaellarabel: So then rebooting the system was the only way to fix it?
Brains: michaellarabel: Keyboard was unresponsive, video was gone, and my attempt to ssh got a no route to host. She was dead, Jim.
Brains: michaellarabel: Yep, there is a backtrace in there.
michaellarabel: can you upload it or email it?
Brains: michaellarabel: Should be able to... I tell you which in a minute. *chuckle*
Brains: michaellarabel: This is just like I have the correct setup but that the left monitor (the one on tmds1) is off. I even can --swap-monitor so that I can use windows that open up over there.
michaellarabel: Okay
Brains: michaellarabel: Which would be easier? Something like pastebin or an email?
michaellarabel: either
Brains: michaellarabel: On its way
michaellarabel: Brains: Got it, thanks. I'll forward it on...
Brains: michaellarabel: Much appreciated... Even if it turns out to be PEBCAK.
michaellarabel: One thing that may be useful as well is an atigetsysteminfo.sh output
Brains: michaellarabel: On its way...
Brains: michaellarabel: Appreciate the effort and let me know if there is anything else that would help... The only thing that jumped out from a quick glance at the system info stuff was something about /proc/pci (IIRC). I'll have a closer look tomorrow... Time to close up shop now though.
michaellarabel: ok