starkmjolk: morning :)
david_: Is there anyone live here. I am having difficulty with 1.0 install
david_: The problem seems to be with the install scripts in pts/test-resources. The servers respond with 404 saying the needed file can't be found: Downloading File: httpd-2.2.8.tar.gz
david_: --00:16:47-- http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/httpd-2.2.8.tar.gz
david_: => `httpd-2.2.8.tar.gz'
david_: Resolving www.apache.org... 192.87.106.226
david_: Connecting to www.apache.org|192.87.106.226|:80... connected.
david_: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
david_: 00:16:47 ERROR 404: Not Found.
mhymn: hi, im not familiar with phoronix-test-suit command, is there any how to around?
michaellarabel: yes, look at the information in documentation/
mhymn: what? where?
mhymn: michaellarabel: OK, found it, thanks
starkmjolk: any decent C programmer in here? I want to make a union of a struct and a char array, but I can't seem to get it to work...
starkmjolk: oh, think before you speak is a good rule. works fine now :)
d2kx: hi
starkmjolk: hi :)
copper: hey d2kx
copper: Are these "Total Time" gtkperf benchmarks? http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/index.php?k=profile&u=d2kx-9149-14590-20241
d2kx: yeah, but i guess you're wondering why they are so few seconds
mha: I think PHP is broken;
mha: miwi ~ # php -r 'printf("%.17f\n", (19.6*100));'
mha: 1960.00000000000022737
copper: d2kx: yes :)
d2kx: it's because i modified the file to make it "gtkperf -c 100" instead of 2000 ;)
copper: lol
copper: if you're going to mess with the benchmarks, you might want to keep the results to yourself and not upload them…
d2kx: i just wanted to compare all the drivers + XAA/EXA and it was good enough for that. would have taken half an hours just for radeonhd+EXA otherwise...
d2kx: radeon+EXA is really damn fast even at this stage...
copper: mha: that's weird
mha: copper: yes :)
copper: d2kx: yeah but people look at the PTS database, and they won't know your results can't be compared to the rest of them
uncle_fungus: mha: no, that just floating point math for you
copper: mha: php -r 'printf("%.17f\n", 1960);' is fine, that's what's weirder
d2kx: didnt think about that, but you're right of course
mha: uncle_fungus: um. 19.6 * 100 should be 1960.
mha: copper: yupp. :)
mha: copper: and 19.5 and 19.7
copper: php -r 'printf("%.17f\n", (int)(19.6*100));' works
uncle_fungus: yes, but the way computer do floating point math means you always get inaccuracies in the least significant bits
mha: uncle_fungus: hmhm.
copper: still weird
copper: is there a hardware/software solution that provides *exact* floating point results, when that's mathematically possible?
mha: not sure :)
starkmjolk: copper: don't you always get *exact* when possible? It's just that most of the time it isn't possible? :)
copper: starkmjolk: I mean, with (19.6 * 100), an exact result is possible (1960), but here PHP provides an inexact result
uncle_fungus: floating point math done using binary notation can never be accurate, only precise to a given level of precision
copper: That's… wrong. Not that you're wrong, I just think it shouldn't be that way. Also, I think Santa Claus should be real.
uncle_fungus: The IEEE754 standard is an "interesting" read
starkmjolk: copper: ah, now I understand what you were after :)
starkmjolk: copper: since 19.6 can't be exactly represented, I'd say no. But there might be a way, I just don't know it.
copper: sure it can, it's a matter of… representation
uncle_fungus: gcc 4.2 supports the decimal float extension to ISO C, which should conform to IEEE 754. Decimal float (as opposed to binary float) notation accurately represents base 10 floating point number
uncle_fungus: That should have been IEEE 754r
copper: ah, nice
copper: there you go
uncle_fungus: you can checkout some hardware supporting decimal floating point here: http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/decimal/
uncle_fungus: power6 ;)
starkmjolk: uncle_fungus: does power6 support decimal floats? :o
starkmjolk: /* Probably not in use */
copper: regular hardware doesn't?
starkmjolk: oops! (:
starkmjolk: copper: not natively atleast
copper: Stan Winston's dead :(
GNU\colossus: ... and so is my Grandfather.
copper: difference is, no-one cares about your colossal grandfather
d2kx: poor Jade...
d2kx: I just saw that his filesystem thread was closed
d2kx: wine 1.0 is released ya
michaellarabel: yeah
vadi2: wewt. I'll give it a try as soon as a .deb is available
d2kx: I'll guess it'll be in Debian/sid soon, maybe later today
copper: Deanjo: you there?
starkmjolk: many things today then. wine 1.0, firefox 3.0, something different I've forgotten...
copper: If anyone cares to test their music player's gapless implementation: http://pastebin.com/m69177d4a
copper: gapless playback*
copper: back in half an hour
copper: more like an hour
michaellarabel: CrossOver 7.0 just got released
d2kx_: could someone please kick "d2kx"? (stupid 24h disconnect with german ISPs...)
vadi2: I tried Crossover Games yesterday. It looked very promising (easy .deb, nice menu entries). But their gui has a fugly skin and it couldn't install eve for me. And I can't file a support ticket because I didn't buy it yet :(
maligor: eve requires a separate copy of wine?
vadi2: No, I just wanted to see if the performance is better and the sidemap works in crossover
vadi2: wine already runs eve better than their cedega one :/
copper: vadi2: I wanted to tell you something, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was
vadi2: ff3 is supposedly starting their download record in half hour, if anyone feels like wasting bandwidth. It's still unclear afaik if they'll count the repository updates.
DarkDefender: i will have to wait for an ebuild :(
copper: no they wont
copper: it's a stupid stunt anyway
vadi2: too early to tell.
Shahid: me thinks it's for windows users only
copper: I think they can only get their own FTPs verified
copper: most of all, it's useless: it'll only get them an entry in the Guiness book of records
vadi2: not at all
copper: It's not as if Microsoft had dared them to reach a certain number of downloads, in which case they would make Firefox Window's default browser or something
copper: Windows'*
vadi2: it'll spawn a whole lot of browser flamewars, and get some advanced ie users to give it a try. some publicity for the average user
copper: I'll let the noobies rape Mozilla.org's servers
copper: I'll wait for the Arch Linux package
vadi2: I can't wait for anything. I already have it :(
copper: besides, Mozilla.org's use of donated money is questionable
copper: they also make shitloads of money with their embedded Google search box
Shahid: LOL!
copper: shitloads, as in actual *millions* of dollars a year
vadi2: so that's a good thing.
vadi2: they're one of the few self-sustainable oss projects with paid people.
copper: it would be a good thing if they put that money to good use
vadi2: you can count those by numbers :)
copper: "In 2006 the Mozilla Foundation received US$66.8 million in revenues, of which 61.5 million is attributed to "search royalties"."
copper: frack me…
vadi2: that's cool, but very undiversified.
Shahid: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0/
Shahid: i'm confused
vadi2: 15 mins man
vadi2: starts at 1pm est
vadi2: 1800 bst
copper: Are you excited?
vadi2: me? no
copper: You sound excited.
Shahid: lol it's 5:54pm
copper: Also, you'd think they would provide time in UTC.
copper: But hey, americans don't even know what UTC is :P
Shahid: i hope ff3 is not a virus
Shahid: and when these million people install it, their cpus dont explode
vadi2: no only amd ones will
vadi2: 'cause intel paid them to.
athewk: i hope they have the bandwidth to cope with the demand
vadi2: well, one would hope they planned for what they called for
athewk: that is often too much to ask, i find ;)
Shahid: they probably asked google for help
Shahid: and youtube will have some magic downtime
Shahid: :P
athewk: hah
starkmjolk: It is time to flood the intarwibble with the new browsar! www.getfirefox.com :))
athewk: working quite well so far, the page isn't loading ;)
Shahid: Will firefox 3 really improve my Internet experience?
d2kx: yes
starkmjolk: it's FF download day, that's the experience :D
athewk: depends on your internet experience
starkmjolk: I use epiphany atm to try to get FF3, probably won't swap completely in an instant
copper: The Pentium CPU accelerates your internets
copper: kicks Deanjo in teh nuts
copper: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0/ still not ready yet
copper: "There are too many connected users, please try later."
copper: lame
vadi2: haha
duende: the servers are slammed
vadi2: does anyone here have experience with glut?
duende: awesome
copper: They should have called it Operation Pwnage
vadi2: how do you like a 25kg bag of cement falling from the sky: http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSHAR75844520080617?feedType=nl&feedName=usoddlyenough
athewk: well
athewk: it's russia
athewk: not really suprising, all things considered
vadi2: first time it happened!
vadi2: and they used that stuff... definitely in the 80's olympics that I know. but kinda weird.
vadi2: they showed pics on the tv. solid hole in the roof XD
athewk: yeah, i recall reading how a dud missile was misaimed and landed in someone's backyard
vadi2: same, lol
athewk: just imagine sipping tea or watching tv
vadi2: So, the firefox website is eeeextremely slow, and slashdot doesn't have a story on it yet. What is the world coming to
copper: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/17/1250229
vadi2: I meant on the slowness
Shahid: vadi2: i like libSDL better than glut
vadi2: Shahid: a guy just has a question about making windows in glut, think you can answer?
Shahid: probably not, been many years since i made GL code :(
michaellarabel: Gotta love US airport security...
vadi2: Michael got detained! O.O
athewk: they're probably searching his laptop for the lunix
copper: eh?
vadi2: (02:33:32 PM) michaellarabel [n=michael@m4b0f36d0.tmodns.net] entered the room.
vadi2: (02:33:44 PM) michaellarabel: Gotta love US airport security...
vadi2: (02:38:45 PM) michaellarabel left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
copper: yeah I read that
copper: wonder what happened though
copper: lol. NVIDIA driver 177.13 (beta) for Linux x86/x86-64 released
copper: ah, they added support for the GTX 2x0 GPUs
vadi2: I hope nvidia didn't adopt google's meaning of a "beta"
vadi2: because it's been awfully long since a non-"beta" driver.
copper: I have used nvidia beta drivers before, they're pretty much as good as stable ones (can't tell the difference, quality wise)
copper: What are you talking about, nvidia just released stable drivers
copper: and the ones before that were only a few months old
vadi2: oh? must've missed that annoucement then
copper: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_amd64_173.14.09.html released june 11
vadi2: Ah. Cool
copper: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_173.14.09.html (32-bit driver)
vadi2: nah won't be installing, doesn't look like there are any changes affecting me.
copper: eh, sorry, that's the previous beta. This is the stable release: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_amd64_173.14.05.html (may 28)
copper: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_173.14.05.html
vadi2: "Resolved a bug causing left and right eyes to be reversed" cool!
drago01: there is a 177.13 too
copper: 19:02:38 UTC lol. NVIDIA driver 177.13 (beta) for Linux x86/x86-64 released
copper: keep up :P
drago01: it sucks anyway :P
copper: no u
drago01: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=113972
drago01: see the last two posts
drago01: fix a bug
drago01: relase a new driver
drago01: break it again
drago01: ....
d2kx: I have a feeling that the AMD Catalyst 8.3 is coming very soon *caugh*... just a guess of course, as it is the middle of the month and tomorrow is wednesday
d2kx: I mean 8.6 of course
copper: drago01: the version numbering suggests they're two different branches
drago01: I know
drago01: that why it seems that they forgot to apply the fix to the new branch too
copper: I'm only waiting for the release with the FF3/pixmap fix
copper: OK, Weeds time, until I can bother Deanjo
vadi2: You do gardening?
Shahid: omg
Shahid: http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/firefox/
Shahid: it has ufos i'm sold
vadi2: oh, they have a random background pic
vadi2: 'cause I only saw a birds and a baloon one
Kano: Nvidia now has 3!!! legacy drivers, one driver 177.13 does not support geforce 5 gpus anymore...
copper: so?
copper: the linux kernel itself has 3 "stable" branches
Kano: you have 4 branches for nvidia drivers now
drago01: " Yeah, sorry about that. The Linux team has no say in when GPUs are legacyized, though."
copper: in what channel is he?
drago01: #nvidia
Shahid: http://www.mozilla-europe.org/img/tignish/firefox/background-firefox-3.jpg
Shahid: recent nvidia drivers have been very disappointing for me
Shahid: just when i bought a 8600 too
vadi2: what do you mean? I'm on a 8600gt myself
Shahid: the progress AMD are making they will soon overtake nvidia
vadi2: oh heh. complain when they do overtake it
Kano: Shahid: whats the problem? ff3 issues?
Shahid: no problems for me :)
vadi2: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6770350664204133272
Deanjo: lol Stefan Dirsch is gonna hate me for making him do another nvidia driver package
copper: crap, I missed him
copper: Just a heads-up: MD5 and SHA-1 sums for the firefox-3.0-source.tar.bz2 on the official FTP and HTTP sites don't match the tarball
copper: I just verified it in #firefox
vadi2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh_k4b6Xmh8
vadi2: (the lulz: corruption of lol album had that song. haha)
vadi2: copper: you got the guy at a bad mood ;)
copper: he's got a stick up his bottom
vadi2: after spending several hours trying to get video to work again, yeah :P
Deanjo: Balmer RULZ!!!
copper: Deanjo: put your money where you mouth is: http://pastebin.com/f36522ccd
vadi2: Deanjo: That's really a carefully engineered virus by copper that'll install arch on your comp, do not try it.
Deanjo: lol
copper: quit bad-mouthing me, I'm straight as an arrow
copper: You can trust me.™
vadi2: © Copyright Trusted Computing, Inc.
vadi2: 8)
copper: :P
copper: The distant scream you hear is Deanjo realizing his player doesn't really provide gapless playback after all, and despite his many ABX sessions spent identifying DACs, he didn't notice.
Deanjo: dean@linux-hcex:~> metaflac --show-md5sum "a.flac" "b.flac"
Deanjo: a.flac:544f5eafbb67a095d26e9b4fac2b1fb5
Deanjo: b.flac:544f5eafbb67a095d26e9b4fac2b1fb5
copper: ok now you're cheating again ;)
copper: What player/engine?
Deanjo: xine
copper: what player?
Deanjo: amarok
Deanjo: 1.4.9.1
copper: out of curiousity, remove the "--skip=00:01.00 --until=00:59.00" from the last two flac commands and compare MD5 sums again
copper: I'm guessing the problem lies with the app using xine-lib then
Deanjo: k
Deanjo: dean@linux-hcex:~> metaflac --show-md5sum "a.flac" "b.flac"
Deanjo: a.flac:73dec5321078321d19dcbe4b75c827b2
Deanjo: b.flac:73dec5321078321d19dcbe4b75c827b2
copper: hmmm, interesting, thanks
Deanjo: np
copper: I'm gonna have to install amarok then
redeeman: anyone that can recommend a good joystick?
copper: joysticks are sooo 1988
redeeman: what would you recommend using?
vadi2: 3d mouse
Deanjo: All depends on the game redeeman
Deanjo: (or flight sim in my case)
Deanjo: Mice and gamepads truly suck at combat sims
copper: I beg to differ
copper: I gunned down many P-51s in my youth, using an Apple II mouse
Deanjo: Really? When did the Apple II have a mouse?
copper: erm
copper: Well it was an Apple IIcx to be more precise, but I'm pretty sure the original Apple II had a mouse
Deanjo: Apple didn't have mice until the GS and macs
vadi2: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7459535.stm
vadi2: electonic brain!
vadi2: *electronic
Deanjo: For flight sims there is no substitute for a HOTAS setup
Deanjo: http://boston.kijiji.com/c-For-sale-Toys-games-Hotas-Cougar-Thrustmaster-Pick-up-not-available-shipping-only-W0QQAdIdZ53939378
copper: Deanjo: weird, none of the machines pictured at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II look like my old IIcx
Deanjo: Sure it wasn't a Mac IIcx?
copper: yup you're right, http://www.landsnail.com/apple/local/design/mac2cx.html
vadi2: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/06/17/the-cake-is-a-lie-ie-team-bakes-a-treat-for-mozilla
redeeman: damn nvidia should be punished for their incompetence
Deanjo: Meh I still use opera
vadi2: hey. apparently ff3 uses cairo now
copper: yup
vadi2: and cairo is used in gtk. *tries to think of a mean thing to say*
Deanjo: Ya it does a nice job of wiping out bookmarks from FF1.5 on Macs
copper: FF1.5? Is that a virus?
redeeman: Deanjo: i guess the hardlock nvidias driver just caused right now is just phantoms, stuff im imagining?
Deanjo: What ever the last version was before that headache called FF2
Deanjo: Or just a crappy system of yours
redeeman: yeah a system which ONLY is crappy when a certain closed blob is loaded?
copper: redeeman: don't talk to Deanjo, he has a perfect system running on perfect hardware :P
redeeman: he must have some sort of special nvidia resistant hardware
redeeman: ALL nvidia stuff is just pure shit
Deanjo: Hmmm, blob activates 3d, 3d increases current draw, lack of available current = locks
redeeman: yeah right
Deanjo: Ya very right
redeeman: that's not remotely what's happening
redeeman: so you are saying
Deanjo: I have seen that scenario many times.
redeeman: if i were to play a video using xv
redeeman: does this use much power?
redeeman: using xv, and then starting to use opengl, is a 90% assured hardlock
vadi2: "Despite Microsoft's efforts, the majority of developers still aren't writing with Windows Vista in mind, a new study by Evans Data says. Only 8% are specifically coding with Vista in mind, while Linux is actually higher at 13% -- evidence that Microsoft's new OS isn't catching on."
Deanjo: Shitty power stage on MB or PS easily causes lockups when high current demand is needed to be filled
vadi2: aaawesome. now just to have them not told off by the existing ones.
redeeman: Deanjo: it's not a power problem
copper: vadi2: that quote is falacious
Deanjo: Seriously dude, the systems in the labs at the community college are rarely shutdown or rebooted for months all equipped with nvidia cards and running linux
copper: ALL nvidia stuff is just pure shit
copper: dude, just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's "shit" for everyone with a working system
redeeman: copper: nvidia has a history for making pure shit
copper: I never get hard locks with nvidia either
redeeman: the fact that it works somewhere doesent change that
copper: it's the other way around
copper: it works for the majority
Deanjo: yup
vadi2: works for hollywood too!
Deanjo: ATI was the company for years that had driver issues
redeeman: nvidia has both hardware and software issues
redeeman: their chipsets have been one continuing line of abysmal failures
Deanjo: So did ATI
Deanjo: So does ATI
redeeman: nvidias software is insane shit
copper: geez, way to grossly exagerate
vadi2: VIA cards pwn.
redeeman: their graphics hardware may be okay, ofcourse that doesent matter at all, given that the only way to operate it, is via a piece of shit driver
copper: he's just venting
redeeman: copper: so you wouldn't call it shit?
redeeman: let's look
redeeman: nforce1: destroys harddrives
redeeman: nforce2: corrupts bus
Deanjo: BS
redeeman: nforce3: general instability
Deanjo: BS
redeeman: nforce4: don't know
Deanjo: neverhad one
redeeman: nforce professional: cant use 4gb ram with atapi dma
copper: well, given that it works for me, minus some minor issues, no, I wouldn't call it "shit"
copper: redeeman: I suggest you vent in #nvidia on this network :P
vadi2: wait, wait. what's the name of that purely oss video card
redeeman: copper: nvidia doesent listen to bug reports
copper: I didn't say report bugs, I said vent
copper: what you're doing here
redeeman: i am not venting
copper: lol
vadi2: uhm
Deanjo: hmmm, wonder how I ever got the tyan servers with the nforce professional with 16 GB of ram to install with a atapi drive
redeeman: i am telling facts about a piece of shit company making crap products
redeeman: Deanjo: well.. just google, it's a known issue
redeeman: Deanjo: i believe you will find it on lkml
copper: redeeman: the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem :)
Deanjo: It's a well known issue that there are crappy bios's out there as well
redeeman: Deanjo: yeah well in this case, it's a bug in the damn IDE controller from nvidia
copper: you forgot to say "crap" or "shit"
copper: how about "poop"?
redeeman: crap and shit is automatically implied when dealing with nvidia
copper: for variety's sake
copper: seriously, do that in #nvidia
redeeman: and it's not just nvidias linux drivers that sucks ass
redeeman: a friend of mine recently "upgraded" from xp 32bit to xp 64bit
redeeman: now he crashes liek 5 times a day
redeeman: i suppose this is faulty power supplies?
redeeman: due to extra usage?
redeeman: haha
copper: works just fine for me on XP64
Deanjo: Funny, I've been using XP64 as well for years
copper: I know it's annoying
redeeman: ofcourse when uninstalling the nvidia driver
redeeman: all works well
copper: Deanjo himself annoys me with his perfect system
redeeman: copper: i have an alternate theory
copper: it's teh JEWS!
redeeman: deanjo paid lots of money for a bunch of shitty hardware
Deanjo: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=tyan_n3600m&num=6 <----- should tell micheal that him installing a OS on that was impossible
redeeman: with big fat nvidia labels on them
Deanjo: Funny, but yet I don't have issues
redeeman: and then he realized he paid $1000 for the same stuff that resides in the sours
copper: redeeman: I paid about 100 euros for my 8600GT, 60 euros for my mobo with a 6150
redeeman: and then he doesent wanna admit it
Deanjo: redeeman, seriously, get a grip, your one of a few with issues
redeeman: im not one of few
redeeman: i am one amongst MANY
Deanjo: So where is the proof of this 100% replicable issue you have with the nvidia drivers
copper: look man, I've had my share of hardware and software problems, doesn't mean everything is crap
redeeman: copper: everything from nvidia is
copper: No.
redeeman: Deanjo: oh btw, you might wanna lookup nvidia dualcore issues
Deanjo: I mean after all you found a bug you claim, where is the bug report on nvnews.net?
copper: Deanjo and I are proof that's not true.
redeeman: Deanjo: ofcourse neither of those are telling the truth
redeeman: they just hate nvidia
redeeman: for no apparent reason
redeeman: and their nvidia related crashes, are the work of faulty psu's
copper: we're not claiming there are no issues
redeeman: Deanjo: you do realize that the official way to report bugs is to the email address, right?
Deanjo: Actually, I'm well aware as to how the bug reports work
redeeman: it's easy
copper: and seriously, PSU failures, however silent they can be, are often at the root of the weirdest bugs
redeeman: copper: yes but i am pretty confident, that my psu is working quite fine
redeeman: since i suspected psu trouble, and then swithced
redeeman: and then suspected that new one was crap
redeeman: and then switched again
Deanjo: So it can very well be your power stage on the MB then
copper: maybe your electrical installation is at fault, maybe it's something else
copper: it's not always clear cut
redeeman: Deanjo: no it cannot
Deanjo: Why do you say that?
redeeman: because i know how stuff works, and i know for a fact that atleast the xv+opengl related bug i have, can not be because of that
redeeman: most specifically because it was INTRODUCED in an nvidia driver update
redeeman: and also
redeeman: because what i do to cause it does not use as much power as some other stuff, which works
redeeman: it's now 8 months since i gave nvidia detailed report about this
redeeman: is it fixed? no
copper: redeeman: I'm not even claiming the nvidia driver isn't at the source of your problem
redeeman: about ~1.5 years ago
copper: I'm just saying, just because you found a bug doesn't mean every nvidia product is utter crap
redeeman: nvidias driver update broke the edid detection on my monitor
redeeman: i gave nvidia detailed information
redeeman: including a small edid parser i wrote myself
redeeman: which correctly parsed my blob
redeeman: is it fixed to this date? no
copper: fwiw all my problems went away, when 1) I moved my OS installation from a USB flash drive to a hard drive, 2) bought a new LCD display, 3) bought a new DVD-RW drive
redeeman: lol yes let me replace my monitor, dvd drive, and maybe i can get rid of some nvidia bugs?
redeeman: oh that reminds me
copper: I still think the kernel's drivers for USB flash drive support is crappy, but I don't have a definitive proof of that
redeeman: ANOTHER nvidia problem
redeeman: i have a quadro fx 3400
Deanjo: BTW every time I have reported a bug to nvidia I have usually received a response within 3-4 hours
redeeman: and untill the nvidia blob is started by xorg
redeeman: the screen is completely garbled
redeeman: so with the quadro, i cannot go into bios or anything
copper: redeeman: just use AMD/ATI products and be done with it
redeeman: but AMD/ATI products arent usable yet
copper: lol
copper: Intel products then.
copper: Intel + Matrox, there you go.
redeeman: intel doesent sell me a graphics card, do they?
redeeman: and does matrox sell me one with a free driver?
redeeman: (seriously, if you know something, im EXTRMEELY interrested)
copper: I believe so. Correct me if I'm wrong Deanjo.
Deanjo: matrox has been free for a while
Deanjo: a long while
redeeman: i seem to remember something about drivers for later matrox's not being free
redeeman: and being quite crappy
copper: Matrox has a pretty good reputation.
copper: jesus…
redeeman: yes in 1998 when their hardware was last used
copper: what ISN'T crappy.
redeeman: what matrox card you recommend?
copper: Buy a freakin' Mac or something.
redeeman: lol if i wanted crapware i would buy a mac
redeeman: but i don't
Deanjo: I don't think Matrox even makes cards anymore
redeeman: Deanjo: one can buy pahelia and G400
copper: holy molly, you really do think everything is crap.
copper: What are you doing with a computer?
redeeman: copper: i don't think EVERYTHING is crap, but most is
redeeman: for instance, i would love to buy intel graphics
copper: Buy a Sun workstation. Or how about an XGI workstation?
redeeman: unfortunately they don't sell cards, do they?
copper: Intel graphics do actually suck, that's ironic you want them.
redeeman: and how do they suck?
redeeman: by...... having free drivers?
copper: very poor performance
redeeman: or by not hardlocking?
redeeman: lol
copper: For one thing, they only sell IGPs at the moment.
redeeman: yes as i said, intel has no product i can use on the market yet
copper: So, forget about playing UT3 or doing some heavy OpenGL work.
redeeman: if they sold GMA X3100 as pcie, i'd freaking get it
Deanjo: lol their discreets were a horrid joke
copper: seriously, buy a well supported (as in, corporate support) workstation then.
redeeman: copper: not like UT3 is coming anyway...
redeeman: i don't want corporate support
copper: ok, ET: QW, whatever.
redeeman: i want free drivers
copper: you're just venting
redeeman: and soon i will get it
copper: this is pointless
redeeman: with amd
copper: Deanjo: tried that? http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Building_with_Profile-Guided_Optimization
copper: I'm wondering if 3 gigs of ram is enough to build that on a tmpfs. I know I can make a regular build that way.
redeeman: 2gb is enough for a normal build
Deanjo: No I haven't copper. I try to stay away from mozilla code
copper: lol, let me guess, it's CRAP!
copper: CRAPITTY POOP!
redeeman: well yes it actually is
Deanjo: Na, there is just better out there
copper: hey you don't have to modify it :P
copper: I'll try it tomorrow
redeeman: firefox doesent scroll smoothly on freshmeat.net
redeeman: ofcourse im perfectly willing to accept that this is nvidias fault, lol
redeeman: (allthough konqueror does do it)
copper: redeeman: guess what, it does on my system
redeeman: copper: try just grabbing the scrollbar, and scroll up and down as fast as you can
Deanjo: lol that happens on macs as well on ATI chips in FF redeeman
copper: redeeman: fine here
redeeman: yeah everyone says it's "fine"
redeeman: on their windows aswell
copper: everyone must be lying, eh?
redeeman: but when i come IRL to inspect, it really isn't
copper: that's pretty much what I accused Deanjo of earlier :P
redeeman: (thats right, i once drove 100KM to a guy talking on a forum, to observe his "SMOOTH" firefox)
copper: gave him the tool to prove me wrong, and wrong I turned out to be
Deanjo: actually it looks like the freshmeat issue is fixed in 3
redeeman: yes well..
redeeman: people also claim opera does it smooth
Deanjo: At least in linux
copper: they did fix some 2D issues from beta3 to RC1
redeeman: i just tested the latest this very evening... it doesent
copper: (or was it RC2, can't remember)
copper: redeeman: what are your InitialPixmapPlacement and GlyphCache settings?
redeeman: you are right
redeeman: it's fixed on firefox3
redeeman: it seems
copper: ...
redeeman: copper: well.. this issue goes back to before those
copper: I guess you didn't just test with the latest FF
redeeman: and glypcache doesent apply to my card i believe
redeeman: i just tested with firefox3, yes
copper: and now it works fine
redeeman: yes but i also have firefox2
redeeman: and it does NOT work fine
copper: So, after all this venting, how do you expect to be taken seriously?
redeeman: i don't see how anythings changed by the fact that mozilla now finally managed after ALL that time, to fix scrolling in firefox
redeeman: and do keep in mind
redeeman: that firefox3 was just released TODAY
copper: well there were RCs before today
redeeman: so what?
redeeman: rc's arent releases
redeeman: it's not what people get when going to mozilla.com or to their package manager
redeeman: (unless one is crazy like canonical)
redeeman: ofcourse firefox3 brings an entirely different set of issues
redeeman: for instance, the whole fsync issue
copper: Deanjo: hey, load http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2008/02/firefox-3-ultimate-feature-performance/ in FF3, switch to another workspace, and switch back to FF's workspace, tell me if your GUI doesn't freeze (not the pointer)
redeeman: which degrades experience insanely
copper: well, the *release* fixed that scrolling issue, what's to be pissed about?
redeeman: i never was pissed about firefox
copper: you should be
redeeman: why would i be pissed? i don't use it
copper: some 2D issues nvidia users are experiencing, are cause by firefox
copper: caused
redeeman: no, it's caused by NVIDIA
copper: it's like talking to a wall
redeeman: because nvidia's 2d performance on 8xxx is slower than freaking software rendering
redeeman: then how come firefox wasnt so slow on other drivers?
copper: the 2D issues FF users are experiencing (me included) don't show with Opera (Qt)
Deanjo: Ya that page has issues copper
copper: Deanjo: aaaaaah
redeeman: or for instance... nvidia 7xxx
Deanjo: chuggy as hell
copper: then YOU TOO are experiencing the FF3/nvidia problem Deanjo
redeeman: 2d performance (havent tested with that very latest release) on 8xxx is abysmal compared to 7xxx
redeeman: why is it, that using vesa driver, and then inside KVM with firefox on debian, resizing firefox is FASTER than using nvidia driver on the host?
Deanjo: Ya, on that page, let me check something
redeeman: (on 8800gt/gts/gtx)
copper: Deanjo: gotta admit, that page is ironic :)
Deanjo: Does the same thing on the RS690
copper: "Firefox 3 Ultimate Feature: Performance" - yeah, we can see how much the page laggs the whole system, thanks FF3
Deanjo: Does the same thing in opera as well
copper: yeah I noticed
redeeman: nicely in konqueror
Shahid: my computer's performance makes me sad, i think i have a problem with the nvidia driver
copper: probably a pig who coded that page
copper: redeeman: what, so it's not nvidia's fault?!
Deanjo: Yup konq and webkit are ok
redeeman: copper: whenever a bug happens, the chances that nvidia is responsible is greater than that of anything else
copper: you're not biased at all, are you
redeeman: i simply have tried owning nvidia hardware, and debugged countless scenarious
redeeman: all boiling down the a crappy nvidia product
copper: I can't believe how many cigarettes I smoked today
redeeman: and magically when nvidia is removed, the problem is aswell
copper: then… remove all nvidia products from your system, problem solved
redeeman: that will happen extremely soon
redeeman: im considering buying a G35 motherboard
Shahid: nvidia is the only company who have zero open source commits to projects
redeeman: just to get rid of the crappy nvidia graphics card
redeeman: Shahid: except workarounds for faulty hardware in the linux kernel
redeeman: i remember some nice nforce2/3 mails to lkml
redeeman: "uhm.. you better commit these workarounds!!!! just,..... because!!!!"
Shahid: i hated my nforce2 so much
redeeman: workarounds for the extremely popular nforce bus corruption
Shahid: some people firework exploded theirs on youtube
redeeman: ah so nice
redeeman: another very well engineered nvidia product!
Deanjo: But yet the NF7-s goes down in Socket A history as probably the best board in Socket A
copper: I think we all know how you feel about NVIDIA by now, redeeman
copper: and again, as far as 2D goes, I can't think of a company other than Matrox with a better reputation
copper: not in the consumer market, anyway
redeeman: does matrox have basic 3d?
copper: basic I'm pretty sure
redeeman: hmm interresting
Deanjo: Ya it does
redeeman: a few days ago i looked at the freedesktop wiki, and it seemed to suggest otherwise :|
Shahid: i thought matrox died
redeeman: i actually do have a G400 i believe!
Deanjo: Geforce 3 class IIRC with the Pahwhatever it was
redeeman: but
redeeman: i also need duallink dvi
redeeman: which kindof limits the selection abit
copper: Deanjo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrox_Parhelia
redeeman: omg
redeeman: and duallink dvi
copper: *schwing* ?
redeeman: im SO gonna get this if theres driver support
Deanjo: Ya I know what it is, I've been at both matrox and ATI's HQ's
copper: I'm tired, going to bed. Thanks for testing gapless support with Amarok Deanjo, I'll give it a try tomorrow.
Deanjo: np
redeeman: does parhelia 512 only exist as agp?
Deanjo: I don't know
Deanjo: It's been a while since I've seen one in the wild
Deanjo: orders a Adaptec 3805 card
copper: Deanjo: couldn't sleep, so I installed Amarok. Can't get it to play gaplessly.
Deanjo: Do you have OSD enabled?
copper: I wonder if it has something to do with kernel settings.
copper: nope
Deanjo: Might be, does your test produce like md5's?
copper: Transition: No crossfading, Insert gap: 0 ms, No fadeout
copper: MD5 sums differ
Deanjo: Ya that's what mine are set at
copper: and I hear the audio skipping slighly
copper: skipping forward, I think (can't tell for sure)
Deanjo: what happens say in kaffiene?
copper: gosh, you're not going to make me install the entire KDE base, are you?
copper: KDE fanboy.
Deanjo: Well if you were perfect you would..... :P
copper: btw, I don't see any settings such as Replay Gain or codec configuration
Deanjo: and yes I like KDE, it seems just more polished to me then gnome
copper: is there a hidden "advanced" configuration panel somehwere?
Deanjo: replay gain is in the scripts
Deanjo: Check Tools-->Script manager
copper: I don't see it there
Deanjo: At least that's where I think it was. I don't even have replaygain on my system
copper: it's not a package, it's directly implemented in libFLAC and/or in each player
Deanjo: Ya, I kinda thought it was a script for amarok http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=26073
Deanjo: what dbengine you using for amarok?
copper: sqlite
copper: Amarok's devs are the guys who claimed on their wiki that Amarok supported "every codec known to man (yes, we really do mean every one of them)", and hadn't even heard of WavPack
Deanjo: not sure if that would have anything to do with it although that is another thing that differs between our systems. I've got amarok using postgresql
Deanjo: Well wavepack is supported by xine
copper: it is now…
copper: wasn't when I mentioned it to them
copper: I was greeted with a "wtf" and a "get the fuck out of here" IIRC