Phoronix IRC Log: 2008-06-11
schestowitz: Chaps might want to give this one a knock: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Mint_5_0_Builds_Upon_Ubuntu_Hardy
michaellarabel: SlashDot: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/309603338/article.pl
vadi2: Well, hopefully something will come out of this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/146#comment-300627
vadi2: but it sounds like that would need a lot of reorganization
copper: hey peeps
Maledictvm: vadi2: I don't really like the idea of synchronous releases...
copper: I installed Arch Linux
vadi2: Maledictvm: I do, given the issues kubuntu had in releases vs ubuntu.
Maledictvm: copper: Yeah.
Maledictvm: vadi2: Yeah, but (K)Ubunut has paid developers. Not every major project can offord releasing in a given timeframe if the only developers do their work in sparetime.
vadi2: afaik all major projects have paid developers..
vadi2: ubuntu, opensuse, fedora, mandriva
Maledictvm: If Shuttleworth said: "We'd give you financial support wherever it helps bug-fixing, if..." I'd say its a neat idea.
Maledictvm: Yeah, but these arent projects but distributions.
vadi2: ... that's exactly what the link points to
Maledictvm: I read the article when it came out. I think, I still remember its content. He mentioned synchronous releases of distributions but also of the OSS-projects itself, that are essential in doing a distribution.
Maledictvm: But I've to write some job-applications now. Later. :)
vadi2: i should do that too.
Maledictvm: Hm, is there a plugin for Abiword to read and write ODT 1.1?
Maledictvm: When I import my OOo-documents it's all just jibberish. :-/
copper: Damn, it's so nice not having to compile every single package
copper: I'm liking Arch Linux so far
djouallah: ah cool at least we have a channel, now hardware has a place in linux ;)
djouallah: send a hugs from algeria to all channel members ;)
schestowitz: : article idea (one that would be a handy ref) is an overview of Linux games you've covered+screenshots.
tx2rx: hrm, is anyone else running with a SATA CD/DVD-drive ?
tx2rx: had any stability issues or reading problems with it?
uncle_fungus: nope, it works just fine
tx2rx: hrm, with mine, after reading about 5-6 DVD's it will suddenly stop reading data properly, citing that mplayer tried to read a logical block beyond the end of the disk, however if I reboot to remod the correct modules it starts working again :\
uncle_fungus: i had a problem with that on my laptop, which has an ide drive. There appeared to be a bug in the kernel which prevented it reading from past about 4000MB.
uncle_fungus: Once I upgraded the kernel it went away
tx2rx: heh, don't think that will help me w/ 18.104.22.168 ;-)
copper: why, 22.214.171.124 is out!
uncle_fungus: no, the problem occurred on 2.6.20.something
copper: tx2rx: your kernel is soo last month
uncle_fungus: my sata drive is in a machine running 126.96.36.199
tx2rx: copper: mmm, I don't really upgrade unless I see a fix for the hardware/drivers I use,
copper: well you're out of the hip club
copper: come back after you've upgraded
tx2rx: copper: very much so, and happy to be ;-)
copper: you're such a marginal
tx2rx: tucks his machine running 2.4 under the desk
uncle_fungus: i really couldn't care less what kernel I'm running so long as it works
copper: I'm kidding of course
tx2rx: mmm, I suspect a bios bug, had nothing but trouble with this board :\
uncle_fungus: what mobo?
tx2rx: ASUS, er, MS2 ? or something,
Zeqadious: copper: you switched to Arch recently?
Maledictvm: He said, yes.
Riotta: how many of you using here 64bit linux ?
Maledictvm: Arch64. :)
Maledictvm: Never been happier.
Zeqadious: Regular Arch for me ... :)
PetoKraus: gentoo 64 here...
Riotta: you think it's worth switching even if I haven't got 4gigas
PetoKraus: honestly? no.
Riotta: many problems ? flash, java, codecs ?
tx2rx: is 64bit
PetoKraus: but i did switch anyway, since when no one will switch, the market will never move on.
tx2rx: well, depends, if you go 64bit pure/clean then you'll have problems with a few things,
Riotta: yeah I agree with your point of view
Zeqadious: but, people won't switch unless they have too :)
tx2rx: I'm with a multi-lib set which has both 64bit and 32bit libraries,
PetoKraus: me as well, it seems to work quite well
tx2rx: java is not an issue,
PetoKraus: though java. yes.
Riotta: so even some 32bit apps which haven't got 64bit build I will be able to run ?
tx2rx: codecs are not so much a problem, any ones I want to use that don't work with 64bit mplayer I play in 32bit mplayer.
maligor: sid amd64 here also
Riotta: I c
tx2rx: if you really want/need flash you can run a 32bit binary version of firefox which works with the flash plugin.
maligor: flash and java plugins are probably biggest missing problems
Riotta: yeah I heard ther's something like ndiswrapper or something for it
maligor: nspluginwrapper, ndiswrapper is for ndis drivers :P
tx2rx: arh, hrm, I'm still running the 64bit blackdown version of java :p
maligor: java 7 will have a 64bit browser plugin I think
tx2rx: not sure what the newer sun offering is like :\
tx2rx: with nspluginwrapper and flash, it still has some blocker bugs, for some reason I've never had it working with sound :\
Riotta: I don't think I will see any performance boost but I would like to swich because I can and I'm kinda curious if it will cause me more problems etc.
Riotta: as I'm using Linux only for everything
maligor: it's a pretty stable platform these days
tx2rx: mmm, theres very little that I use that is 32bits these days, just some of the old loki games,
tx2rx: oh and wine, wine is still a 32bit app.
Riotta: yeah I use wine heavy for games
maligor: wine64 wouldn't be very useful
tx2rx: true that ;)
Riotta: yeah ther's not too much windows 64 bit apps out there
Riotta: so wine 64 bit is like pointless
tx2rx: hrm, can win64 not run win32 apps ?
maligor: one issue with 32bit software is alsa
maligor: atleast debian sid fails to package alsa plugins
Riotta: alsa ?
Riotta: yeah I know
Riotta: what is it
maligor: so no dmix, samplerate converters ect in the compats
Riotta: just really dunno what to think about that :P
Riotta: so you don't have sound in 32bit apps ?
maligor: oh, I have hw mixing
Riotta: games ?
Riotta: well you never know if you will not try :d
dante_2core: maligor, you don't get alsa to work on 64bit debian?
dante_2core: what kind of alsa?
maligor: dante_2core, works fine, alsa plugins just don't exist
dante_2core: maligor, I see - don't know what kind of plugins you mean though
dante_2core: libasound2-plugins - ALSA library additional plugins
copper: 15:31:20 UTC copper: you switched to Arch recently?
copper: Maledictvm: do you have a multilib setup with Arch?
maligor: dante_2core, yes, I mean there's no lib32asound2-plugins on amd64
dante_2core: oh ok.
copper: btw, linux wants you to run a 64-bit kernel on 64-bit hardware. Also, some apps run faster as 64-bit binaries
Maledictvm: copper: No, I'm just using 64bit-applications.
copper: odd, there's no rTorrent package for Arch Linux in the regular reps
Maledictvm: Enable [Community] in your pacman.conf
copper: yeah I know, but that's an old version. I'll just compile it myself.
copper: The OpenSSL RSA 4096 benchmark just went from 168 sign/s to 173, just by switching from my GCC 4.2.2 distro to Arch with GCC 4.3.0
tx2rx: 4.3.0? 4.3.1 is out already :P
copper: yeah but not in Arch
copper: hey it just came out yesterday, give them a break :P
copper: great, libTorrent doesn't compile…
Maledictvm: 4.3.1 is in Testing. ;)
Maledictvm: copper: Are you going the AUR-way?
maligor: lots of stuff doesn't compile in 4.3
copper: cool, there's a patch
copper: Maledictvm: you mean, using the community packages? No.
Maledictvm: copper: That's the recommended way for packages that aren't in the official Arch-repos.
tx2rx: mmm, 4.3.1 hit unstable on gentoo yesterday, think I may try it out in abit,
Maledictvm: It won't circumvent your package management.
copper: Maledictvm: the rTorrent package in AUR is too old
Maledictvm: copper: Ah, alright. :)
Maledictvm: I thought you only looked at the Community-repo.
copper: there isn't a lot of stuff I have to compile anyway, it's no problem
copper: wait, I'm confused, AUR != community?
copper: just checked, too old too :P
copper: I just install compiled stuff with --prefix=$HOME
Maledictvm: AUR is source + pkgbuild, so you can easily create your own package for pacman.
Maledictvm: Take a look into the Arch-wiki. There's a specific article about AUR.
copper: yeah but I don't have a use for custom packages, at least for now
Maledictvm: Okay, no big deal. I justed wanted to clear that up. :o)
copper: sure, thx
copper: I'll probably head to Arch's IRC chan eventually
copper: get a feel of the community
copper: no, that doesn't mean grope them
athe: lo, fellas
Maledictvm: copper: They're usually pretty cool people.
copper: Maledictvm: in our context, switches like "--enable-arch=ARCH" are kinda confusing ;)
Maledictvm: Where are you from, copper?
Maledictvm: Ah, okay.
copper: what do you mean "Ah"? :P
Maledictvm: German habit. ;)
Maledictvm: Like "understood", "interesting", whatever.
copper: ach so
copper: yay, latest rTorrent works.
copper: moving on to http://moc.daper.net/ (best player ever)
copper: hmm, that one is in AUR
tx2rx: hrm, better than mpd ?
copper: if you don't need MPD's networking feature, yes
tx2rx: arh, couldn't live without that :)
copper: Use whatever suits you :)
copper: wow, GTK+ 2 segfaults :-(
copper: hmmm it seems libXcursor.so.1.0.2 is the culprit
copper: My fault, it doesn't like the cursor theme I copied over
Deanjo: So hear any good conspiracy theories lately?
vadi2: yep, canonical sold itself to microsoft
vadi2: (ubuntu netbook remix will ship with some codecs by oems)
Deanjo: Well, I always knew that canonical was a division of MS
Maledictvm: Hm. But not all codecs are licensed by Microsoft. Even they have to pay for delivering DVD-playback, for example.
vadi2: they don't even deliver half of the stuff. on a normal windows install
vadi2: cannot play this file blah blah blah
Maledictvm: Yes, without proper codecs, a fresh Windows-installation is as useless as e.g. a fresh Fedora or Arch without the non-free gstreamer-packages.
Deanjo: http://benhourigan.com/images/logocopy.jpg <---- coincident
Deanjo: I think not
vadi2: nice one!
Maledictvm: And I don't think it's an evil thing to do, even if you dislike the idea of proprietary formats.
vadi2: It's actually an evil thing to do not to ship them, and make everybody's life harder.
vadi2: or allow an easy installation of them.
Maledictvm: Most of the audience for cheap UM-laptops doesn't have any idea of what Linux is and they'd get frustrated, if their MP3-files won't be played.
Maledictvm: And as soon as Linux gains a larger share of the cake, distributors could lobby for free formats. :)
Deanjo: Well more importantly you would have to get popular devices such as iPods to play the open formats
copper: Apple sucks!
vadi2: Sure. But just make the proprietary codecs easy first
Maledictvm: Want to rip a CD? Just show a little text (without stealing focus, like the in-site-search of Firefox) explaining the quality of Vorbis and its openess.
Maledictvm: Add a nice icon and you'll make people notice.
Deanjo: pays no heed to the mad ramblings of copper
Maledictvm: Or get rid of software-pantents. :D
vadi2: and all of the evil things in the world blah blah
Maledictvm: And yes, iPods sucks.
copper: Deanjo: they could have used FLAC, but nooo, they had to develop ALAC instead
Maledictvm: Good thing you can install Rockbox on 'em.
copper: Suffering from the NIH syndrom much?
Deanjo: Apache rocks on a iPod :P
copper: nice: "Block Data Integrity" http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Block_Data_Integrity
Deanjo: Just have linux pop up a warning that everytime a mp3 is attempted to be played it displays a warning "WARNING! mp3 audio contains subliminal messaging encouraging death to kittens."
ajslater: you need a vrms daemon.
copper: MP3 is open enough, and there's LAME
ajslater: vrmsd-gtk <-- like clippy!
Deanjo: Lame is just a library, it does not nullify the patent on mp3
vadi2: personally I like the defectivebydesign.org style. a nice, cool way to do it
copper: This is why I hate HAL: "hald-addon-storage: polling /dev/sr0 (every 2 sec)"
vadi2: not the "we can't play this, it's proprietary" that the end user sees
copper: LEAVE MY DRIVE ALONE
Deanjo: pays HAL to increase polling to every 1/2 second
ajslater: its always the first or second thing that powertop turns off
copper: what's powertop?
vadi2: a very very evil thing an evil company made
ajslater: top, but for power.
copper: ya ok then
ajslater: that auto suggests things to turn off to save power
ajslater: its pretty cool.
ajslater: apt-get install powertop
copper: don't be rude
copper: pacman -Ss powertop
Deanjo: zypper -i powertop :P
vadi2: don't use powertop at all, it's made by an evil company
copper: bwahahaha, latest LAME beta uses ABR instead of CBR for the "insane" preset - people are going to scream
copper: OMGZ WHEREZ MY QUALITY
Deanjo: meanwhile they listen through a $10 set of speakers
Ivanovic: insane does not define if it is "insane good" or "insane bad",,,
Ivanovic: uncle_fungus: any news on the ut2k4 test?
copper: they they define it as "overkill"
Deanjo: or how about the UT3 bench :D
copper: "This preset will usually be overkill for most people and most situations, but if you must have the absolute highest quality with no regard to filesize, this is the way to go."
michaellarabel: Ivanovic: He hasn't been able to get it to work either
Ivanovic: ah, okay
copper: I run a botmatch bench on my setup fwiw
Ivanovic: won't be writing much today and the next days: http://image-upload.biz/files/d873e579c5a7bf09692f15c9d.jpg
Ivanovic: copper: i was not able to make botmatch run nicely on my system
copper: what's the problem?
Ivanovic: that is the "players unit" ain't droided correctly
copper: camera issues?
Ivanovic: it is still 1st person and human controlled
copper: hold on, I'll give you the skinny
Ivanovic: and it looks like michaellarabel and uncle_fungus have the same probs
Ivanovic: copper: better give it to michaellarabel and uncle_fungus, i want to reduce my typing at list til monday to a minimum...
copper: cd /path/to/ut2004/Benchmark && /bin/sh ./benchmark.sh
michaellarabel: FYI to all, there is a continuation article of yesterday's X.Org one coming out today...
copper: I'll stay tuned
Ivanovic: copper: the content of UT2004.ini might be relevant
michaellarabel: It looks at all of the commits to the xserver since 1999 showing each company and person and how many commits they did, etc... to show which companies are actually committing the most, etc.
copper: Ivanovic: you can make a generic INI file for PTS if you want, but try with your own UT2004.ini first, see if that works for you
vadi2: that's pretty nice
athe: it's good to finally have x.org in the spotlight
Ivanovic: okay, found the problem
michaellarabel: what was the problem
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: replace the "true" and "false" entrys by 1 and 0
jacques-work: michaellarabel, good job on those X.Org articles.
michaellarabel: jacques-work: Thanks, got another one coming out in a few minutes...
Ivanovic: and you can make the current "false" at attractcam to attractcam=1
vadi2: so what happens now
vadi2: it's not like it'll fix the drivers problem / make compiz way more appealing
copper: I still run openbox
vadi2: did my or everybody's internet hiccup
copper: just yours
copper: hahaha awesome, now there's malware than encrypts all of your data and asks for a ransom :D
vadi2: michaellarebel: vendetta online got integrated voip, if you want to do a story on it
vadi2: that'll be etqw and savage 2 now with native linux clients and voip in game
copper: voip is only interesting when you're playing with friends
Riotta: wow talking about games :d I missed something great
vadi2: with savage 2 & vendetta having 64bit binaries
vadi2: no it's really good in a team game
vadi2: interestingly enough
vadi2: vendetta online didn't do the voip on their own
vadi2: "We were approached a couple of months ago by a third-party company developing a multiplatform voice chat solution, who wanted an integration testbed for their product. Vendetta Online being one of a relatively small number of truly multiplatform games (our game is strictly native on each platform, we do not use any wrapper libraries for porting, unlike most other MMOs), they saw us as an ideal production test-case. For the moment, we aren't fo
vadi2: sounds very nice.
Riotta: vendetta is commercial or it's this Open project ?
vadi2: it's commercial of course
Deanjo: " hahaha awesome, now there's malware than encrypts all of your data and asks for a ransom :D" Rieser 4?
Riotta: I thought about Vega strike
Riotta: gey guys is wolfenstein: enemy territory has amd64 binaries ?
vadi2: "Linux, for instance, has demonstrated some problems for people using USB headsets (or any ALSA "second input"), or for those running Ubuntu (pulse audio)." ><
Riotta: cause I just switched :d to 64bit
Deanjo: pulse = evil
Riotta: I agree with that
Deanjo: that too
Riotta: pulse is evil
KDE4000: pulse is evil too
ajslater: i like pulse in theory. its not configured quite right in ubuntu 8.04
KDE4000: hah, well talk about the kde3 arts sound system ;)
Deanjo: other projects try to get more "bare to the metal" and in linux audio they keep wanting to add more layers
ajslater: or esd which is debatably only a little less crashtastically sucky.
ajslater: alsa is fine for that
Riotta: maybe they will invent something better in future I remember when there was some hype about pulse that it gonna be included in ubuntu and all sound problems with mixing gonna disappear
copper: pulse is /eviler/
Riotta: and it actually caused more trouble
Riotta: this project is so much immature
Riotta: it shouldn't be included to stable distribution
ajslater: being able to play with my sound like i play with my video, ala forwarding, etc. is good.
Deanjo: Ya I'm disappointed that so many distro's are now using it already
KDE4000: anyone tried kde4.1?
copper: Arch isn't!
Deanjo: Yuppers 4.1
ajslater: but yeah. it seems to have been adopted early.
KDE4000: im thinking about trying 4.1 from gentoo overlay
copper: oh noes I'm becoming an Arch fanboy
KDE4000: i have 4.0.5 in gentoo now
Riotta: I think if they will work on it and develop bunch of wrappers like sdl-pulse and stuff it gonna work in some future time
Riotta: but now it's mainly pain in the ass
vadi2: well hopefully that'll cause it to work better faster
KDE4000: ati is such a pain :(
Deanjo: wrappers,wrappers,wrappers....... ARGHHH
Riotta: KDE4000: I were an radeon user :P
Riotta: I know what you talking about
KDE4000: Riotta: ati radeon xpress 1150 :( [the dreaded 200m]
Deanjo: How adding yet another layer can "improve" latency is beyond me
copper: I need food
ajslater: Deanjo: do you seriously have sound latency problems in this day and age?
KDE4000: fglrx is really stupid
Riotta: food is for the weak
KDE4000: it conflicts with vesafb too ;(
Riotta: is this chip supported KDE4000 ?
Riotta: by kglrx
Deanjo: No I don't, but I don't see how their claims of reducing latency can be
KDE4000: Riotta: by fglrx yes, not by radeon ;(
KDE4000: Riotta: radeon gives bad screen corruption
KDE4000: somehow i dont have xvideo support now either :(
Riotta: oh my
KDE4000: no framebuffer, no xvideo ...
KDE4000: no compiz
Riotta: how you can use linux then ? no movies ? weird screen
Riotta: it's laptop ?
KDE4000: yeah its laptop
KDE4000: i been using linux 2.5 years
KDE4000: over 2.5 years..
Riotta: so you can even throw something other in it
KDE4000: no i cant ;(
Riotta: shame on amd
KDE4000: i think some of my problems are just with gentoo, but dont know
Riotta: it could get those card working
KDE4000: ati really SUX!
KDE4000: gentoo and nvidia so easy..
KDE4000: emerge -a nvidia-drivers
KDE4000: and reboot and u got 3D and all
Riotta: KDE4000: I know from my friend which is using 200 chip on Arch Linux that it's working flawless
Riotta: except games cause he plays like quake2 ?
Riotta: or something
KDE4000: Riotta: this card didnt have so many problem with suse
KDE4000: /away few minutes
Riotta: maybe it's gentoo specific ?
KDE4000: i will work on my xorg.conf
KDE4000: bah 2 versions of kate
Shahid: i like linux alot
KDE4000: there been spammers in IRC just a minute ago :(
KDE4000: via private messages
Riotta: Shahid: share with us why ?
michaellarabel: Contributors To The X Server - http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=12471
maccam94: so apparently firefox 3 is done?
maccam94: i'm running it right now on ubuntu 8.04...
vadi2: its either a beta or an rc version
maccam94: i guess they haven't had time to get it out to mirrors yet or something
maccam94: vadi2: no, there was an update this morning
maccam94: the about dialog no longer says RC
maccam94: i'm using backports/proposed updates etc
maccam94: so it might only be in there
vadi2: i'm on norma
maccam94: i'll try to figure out which repo it's in
maccam94: it's in hardy-proposed
henrik_: maccam94: The release today = rc3
maccam94: the website is still only offering 188.8.131.52
henrik_: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/ check there
maccam94: henrik_: interesting, the package is marked firefox 3.0, and the about dialog box says so too
vadi2: yeah, doesn't say rc3
vadi2: while it did say rc1 and rc2 before
vadi2: they could've mislabelled it too
vadi2: 'http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-rc.html' says firefox 3 release candidate 3
tx2rx: the ftp reads rc3 ^^
vadi2: firefox release schedule does not mention a release candidate 3
Ivanovic: in general firefox waits about two or three days befor announcing
Ivanovic: simply to give the mirrors time to propagate the files
maccam94: vadi2: not all of the documentation has been updated
vadi2: well we'll have to awit and see
maccam94: it looks like RC3 is just to fix a mac osx bug
maccam94: for linux and windows it's exactly the same
maccam94: so maybe the maintainer in ubuntu thinks it's safe to declare it final
henrik_: What about the fsync problem, any news on that?
maccam94: henrik_: i think it was going to be left up to the distro packagers to take care of or something
mstrobert: Hurray. Lot of people here now :)
Deanjo: Na michaellarabel just has alot of bots in the room
mstrobert: Deanjo: possibly :)
michaellarabel: haha, no.
Deanjo: I don't know........ Jade told me.......
Deanjo: ...... alien abduction..... michaellarabel ............ irc bots.......... world domination.......
michaellarabel: And if Jade said it, you need to throw Hans Reiser and Microsoft into the sentence too....
Ivanovic: michaellarabel: whom do you think the aliens work for?
Ivanovic: and who is the one who wants to save all of us from those aliens?
Deanjo: Oh I'm sure they are all in on the conspiracy
Deanjo: Gotta throw Linus in too
Ivanovic: right, in secret microsoft pays linus to lead the alien forces
Ivanovic: ain't it obvious to everybody?
Deanjo: right and leaks misinformation to phoronix to dupe everybody
maccam94: does anyone here pay for phoronix?
michaellarabel: maccam94: What's your definition of pay? Do you mean premium subscribers or what?
maccam94: just curious about the amount of time subscribers have before everyone else can see the article
michaellarabel: maccam94: Right now it's basically instant access... The difference is subscribers can view multi-page articles on a single continuous page, no ads at all, etc.
Deanjo: and you get a seat on the phononix mothership when the aliens decide to blow up our sun
GNU\colossus: cool, so I can quit my scientology membership?
Deanjo: Are you kidding? Tom Cruise is the leader!
maccam94: Tom Cruise couldn't lead a base
Deanjo: Tom ROX!!! Take that back! :P
Ivanovic: he can only lead when he has at least two bases!
Deanjo: Without Tom single handedly fending off global domination by mayan midgets we all would be dead.
Ivanovic: nah, then chuck norris would come to help
Deanjo: right, I forgot about Chuck
Deanjo: You do realize that michaellarabel is just Chucks net name right?
Ivanovic: Deanjo: if it was, he would make nvidia release specs with a single roundhouse kick!
Deanjo: I don't know..... they have Rankor beasts guarding the vault
michaellarabel: maccam94: Any other questions about premium?
maccam94: michaellarabel: nah i was just curious
michaellarabel: Ivanovic and I think it was copper: So with those changes should UT2004 then work well?
michaellarabel: Did you have a list of the UT2004 mirrors that didn't require registration, etc?
Ivanovic: all the gentoo mirrors
michaellarabel: Okay. And so how'd you manage to damage your arm?
Ivanovic: a thing someone related to CS should never do:
michaellarabel: What sport?
Ivanovic: and it is just the small finger of my left hand being injured
Ivanovic: some games we play in our athlethics team, a mixture between tennis and handball
michaellarabel: Should just stick to golf, much safer :)
Ivanovic: from the mirrors you want the file from distfiles/ut2004-lnx-demo3334.run
PetoKraus: sports, don't get me started
Ivanovic: not soooo common in germany if you ar not some kind of "rich dude" (and even for those it is uncommon)
PetoKraus: my knee is "fuxxxorzed", so, maybe, i'll have to go into uni later next year. Just from playing football.
michaellarabel: X.Org 7.4 is actually coming soon...
Ivanovic: time to get some sleep, n8
Nyad: hello. I've been googling for a while now. Is there a linux version of UT3 yet?
michaellarabel: No client yet....
vadi2: afraid no
Nyad: it's been like 5 or 6 months since the game was releasesd
Nyad: I really want to buy the game
Nyad: silly of them,
michaellarabel: Nyad: More like 7 months :(
vadi2: etqw or savage 2 is a good replacement
Nyad: savage is opensource right?
vadi2: savage 1
vadi2: savage 2 isn't
Nyad: hmm, savage 1 was ok, but I wouldn't buy it if they sold it. I don't know how much better savage 2 could be
vadi2: they did sell it, lol
vadi2: anyway s2 has a nice demo
vadi2: if you want to give it a try
Nyad: I think I will, thanks
Nyad: they haven't made an update on when they will release it have they?
Nyad: ut3 that is
Kano: i think postal 2 is more fun - has unreal engine, of course not the ut3 one
Nyad: I don't suppose starcraft2 will support linux either
Kano: did you try the free postal 2 mp game?
Nyad: postal 2 mp?
Nyad: never heard of it
Kano: single player demo is fun too
vadi2: what did bridgeman mean by 3d in x?
vadi2: I love glade. With pretty much zero python knowledge I'm able to fix up a gui if a pygtk program
Deanjo: T minus 7 days........
Deanjo: opensuse 11
michaellarabel: ah yeah
Deanjo: Hmmmmm I wonder if I can get parallels running on OS X to run a Windows VM that is running a linux vm?
vadi2: don't see why not
lupine_85: I can think of all sorts of reasons why you wouldn't want to.. :D
vadi2: speaking of which, parallels said they'd do 64bit linux support this summer
Exopaladin: there's lots of reasons to not do it, not many reasons why it wouldn't work though ;P
vadi2: and they're teasing me meanwhile with nearly half-price discounts -_-
lupine_85: hey, why not bounce accelerated 3D all the way down the stack too?
Deanjo: Ya well VMware is the only option right now if you want to have 64-bit guest support
lupine_85: not exactly
Deanjo: What other?
lupine_85: qemu supports ppc64, sparc64, alpha, mips64, x86_64
lupine_85: I think
Deanjo: As hosts
Deanjo: plus qemu is emulation
Deanjo: not virtualization
vadi2: I meant host support even
Exopaladin: yeah, it'll do 64bit but quite slowly
vadi2: parallels doesn't offer it
Exopaladin: there's VirtualBox if you want 64-bit host without 64-bit guests for now
vadi2: that's what I'm using
vadi2: works great, but wanting to see if there are better solutions :>
Deanjo: Ya, haven't ran a 32-bit OS in years
Exopaladin: so far I've found nothing better
lupine_85: no, qemu supports 64bit guests
Exopaladin: I keep meaning to play with Xen, effort to set it up though
lupine_85: I just booted a 64-bit linux kernel in it
Deanjo: VMware 6.5 beta even allows direct3d acceleration now
Deanjo: in a linux host
lupine_85: mm. you can bounce accelerated GLX into guests too
Deanjo: It's even DX9c compliant IIRC
lupine_85: is not?
lupine_85: is it now?, rather
lupine_85: it wasn't last time I checked
Deanjo: Ya the 6.5 beta has some pretty impressive stuff
Exopaladin: I may have to acquire that and play
lupine_85: I might need to give that a try
Deanjo: The beta is open, anybody is free to try it out
Deanjo: one sec
Exopaladin: I was just finding it myself :P
vadi2: virtualbox's .debs won me over
vadi2: so easy to install. then you see all of these tutorials for vmware :x
Deanjo: http://www.vmware.com/communities/content/beta/ws65/download.html <---- direct download
Deanjo: http://communities.vmware.com/community/beta/workstation6.5b <---keys
Exopaladin: I can just emerge vmware for easiness, although not the beta :/
lupine_85: well, if this works nicely, it might obviate the need for wine for me
lupine_85: which would be handy since wine doesn't work - at all - for me right now
Deanjo: The unity feature is nice
Deanjo: just launch a app not a whole os
Exopaladin: wine is incredibly odd for me at the moment, if I compile my own version it bombs out on some stuff, if I use a binary version (of the exact same release) it's fine :P
Deanjo: wine likes to fix 200 bugs and create 201 new ones with each release
Deanjo: They really need to start using a compatibility db for applications
vadi2: uh, what?
Exopaladin: they have one..
vadi2: if he means what we mean..
lupine_85: well, it's because I'm using fglrx
Deanjo: No I mean a database in wine that sets all the quirky settings it has to do for specific applications
lupine_85: that's what cedega is for :D
Deanjo: Much like video drivers do for applications
vadi2: yeah, cedega
Deanjo: Tweaked for individual applications upon sensing what application is being launched
vadi2: not sure if crossover does it
Exopaladin: I believe so for their officially supported apps
Exopaladin: crossover games does some tweaks for steam stuff
vadi2: cool. but atm interestingly enough native games are keeping me busy
Deanjo: They were talking about going that root in one of the later newsletters
vadi2: well eve broke that streak, but it's still kinda native.
Exopaladin: I get better results with wine than the official cedega binaries they ship :/
Exopaladin: in wine I actually have the premium graphics (minus HDR + shadows) :P
vadi2: what are premium graphics?
Deanjo: I just wish they would get 3dsmax running in wine
vadi2: ... you're so behind
Exopaladin: just a general graphics upgrade for eve
vadi2: hm. i
vadi2: *i'll give it a try
vadi2: although for some reason my 8600gt lags in some fights
Exopaladin: can't say I noticed any lag with my 7950GT, haven't played much yet with my 8800GT + premium graphics
Exopaladin: but then I've not used the official client much, had some odd graphical issues with it
vadi2: okay. I'm liking though how I can get out of the fullscreen game though
vadi2: only 2nd game I found on linux that allows you to do that. albeit ugly-ish
vadi2: I don't suppose there are any coders here that deal with opengl/graphics in general?
Exopaladin: one thing I wouldn't mind with wine is an easy way to manage the bottle function
vadi2: winedoors I think is for you
Exopaladin: I never had much luck with that, although I haven't tried the latest version
vadi2: note to self: don't accept the mission before getting all loot.
vadi2: i mean finish..
lupine_85: let's see whether VMWare have improved their installer since my last attempt
vadi2: let us know plz
Exopaladin: I have a habit of forgetting to call my drones back before warping away to complete missions :/
lupine_85: doing it now
Deanjo: Eve is OK but Battlestar Galactica: Beyond The Red Line is amazing
Deanjo: (and native)
Exopaladin: hm, hadn't even heard of that
Exopaladin: downloads demo
Deanjo: and free :P
vadi2: I remember trying the btrl
vadi2: But I think I gave up on their forced long tutorial
vadi2: and I don't mind paying. so eh.
vadi2: started with eve yesterday, will be stuck for 3 months :)
lupine_85: hmm. painless
Exopaladin: if you earn enough credits you can buy EVE timecards with EVE money anyway
lupine_85: actually painless
vadi2: A couple of generous people gave me 1 mil each, heh.
vadi2: I got a good ship now and whatnot. but still figuring stuff out - the amount of content here is massive
lupine_85: gah. now I have to install windows inside the vmware
vadi2: is it possible to.. bookmark a location in space?
vadi2: 'cause I finished a mission with a full cargo hold ><
Exopaladin: you can bookmark a wreck or some such nearby object
vadi2: and where are the bookmarks located
Exopaladin: people and places
vadi2: ah thanks
Deanjo: hmmmm did you remove a catagory under the software forums michaellarabel ?
michaellarabel: Deanjo: Yeah, a bit of restructuring... Desktop Linux and Linux Programs were too similar
Deanjo: K, just so I know I'm not going nuts
Deanjo: (well going nuts more quickly that is.....)
Deanjo: Now you have room for a conspiracy category :D
michaellarabel: X.Org & Mesa now has its own category too...
Deanjo: Ya I noticed that
Deanjo: could lock a few threads too while your at it :D
Deanjo: Oh Gee, a new copy of Windows 7 got leaked onto the net......
ronybeck: what a surprise ;)
ronybeck: but is it as crap as Vista? ;)
Deanjo: What are you talking about Vista is AWESOME!!! :P
Deanjo: Vista > orgy with supermodels
ronybeck: Deanjo, if your super models are from the 1920's then you are correct
Deanjo: Hey, I'm just repeating what I heard on the net :D
Deanjo: and if it's on the net IT MUST BE TRUE!!!
ronybeck: Deanjo, so Internet > Truth ? :P
Deanjo: That's what I read :P