More Developers Want GNOME 3.0 Delayed

[phoronix]

Phoronix: More Developers Want GNOME 3.0 Delayed

Yesterday we reported that the release of GNOME 3.0 could end up being delayed to the end of September after the Zeitgeist and GNOME Shell developers shared these key pieces of the GNOME 3.x desktop would likely not be ready in a stable state for the planned 3.0 release in March. Today more developers responsible for different parts of GNOME have voiced their views and the status of their code...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzY3Ng

[sabriah]

Originally Posted by phoronix

Phoronix: More Developers Want GNOME 3.0 Delayed

Am I the only one who thinks that KDE 5.0 and Gnome 4.0 should be the same and only?

The current situation does not look good. These major parallel efforts dilute a limited number of developers efforts. It creates far too intrusive alternatives on a far too low level.

I can live with in a world with two, five or or even 25 different spreadsheets, as they are end applications and don't necessarily inherit code from each other. Still, most distributions today have a Gnome one and a KDE one, for the wrong reason. Widgets...

Yes, I know the history behind both, and the C/C++ difference. But as both now have viable licences, the C/C++ is only a technical obstacle, in a world of engineers. Please, try to work for a merger.

It would be interesting to hear reasons for and against maintaining both.

[next9]

Merger is impossible and undesirable. People usually choose one of the major two KDE and GNOME, because of their concept of usage. I like KDE for it usability, plenty of configuration options, and very easy of use.

GNOME for me is a desktop, that is hard to configure, even such a stupid thing like and icon change is horror. Gnome gives you an GTK file/save dialogue and user fuck yourself and find the icon in /usr/share/.... yourself. The is the typical GNOME approach. I don't know whether are GNOME users so genius, that this is not problem for them, or so idiot, that they should be protected from changing single icon. But this example demonstrates the general approach of GNOME to the user. That's why I completely hate it.

The idea that these two different desktops will merger and GNOME concept will prevail is my nightmare.

But. I respect, other users like GNOME approach, they like Gconf etc. So it is obvious, they would not be happy if KDE approach prevail. The only way how to solve this is some standardization efforts like freedesktop.org.

My personal opinion is, that KDE became technically superior above GNOME too much, and it is so configurable, that it can be configured to the shape of GNOME, that the whole GNOME project is waste of time. But, even if this statement was true, there would exist some GNOME, because this is opensource. In opensource there is not only one right way. Never.

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by phoronix

Jason also mentions that he doesn't think it will be until that point when there is a really polished driver available from Red Hat. We take it that he is referring to the latest ATI Radeon graphics hardware support, for which Red Hat contributes a great deal.

Actually, I would assume that to mean the nouveau 3d driver for nvidia hardware which Red Hat is also pushing the development of.

The Ati/AMD counterpart is already more or less ready except for R800 - and that is a game of chasing the newest hardware that will probably continue where after hardware release, support for it will be added, some times sooner, sometimes later and maybe even some times before it arrives.

[RahulSundaram]

Originally Posted by bugmenot

Actually, I would assume that to mean the nouveau 3d driver for nvidia hardware which Red Hat is also pushing the development of.

The Ati/AMD counterpart is already more or less ready except for R800 - and that is a game of chasing the newest hardware that will probably continue where after hardware release, support for it will be added, some times sooner, sometimes later and maybe even some times before it arrives.

Red Hat has a number of developers working on Intel, ATI (Dave Airlie works on Radeon driver and is the kernel DRM sub system maintainer) and Nvidia (Ben Skeggs works on Nouveau) drivers.

Red Hat also has a considerable amount of people working on GNOME Shell itself including interaction designers. With parallel development of Xorg drivers and GNOME Shell, hopefully things will just click.

[Kazade]

Originally Posted by next9

My personal opinion is, that KDE became technically superior above GNOME too much, and it is so configurable, that it can be configured to the shape of GNOME, that the whole GNOME project is waste of time. But, even if this statement was true, there would exist some GNOME, because this is opensource. In opensource there is not only one right way. Never.

Wow. I think somewhere in that outpour of uninformed hatred was a good point... somewhere.

Anyway, GNOME and KDE shouldn't merge NOT because one is superior to the other. But because they are different approaches to creating a usable desktop and both enrich the free software ecosystem.

I used KDE originally then gradually migrated to GNOME, because basically, 1.) I prefer GTK+ applications and 2.) I have better stuff to do than continually fiddle with my desktop settings which is what I found myself doing with KDE.

Could there be more integration between the two projects? Definitely. Is there unnecessary duplication, yes. Should both desktops switch to one toolkit... no, I don't think so.

It would be nice if applications were written modularly so only the UI needs replacing. If (for example) Kopete and Empathy both used the same libraries but only changed the UI, I think that would be a good use of resources. But each desktop changes the UI to reflect their chosen principles. It does happen that way sometimes, it needs to happen more.

[energyman]

KDE's approach is the unix way. You have lots of small little 'modules' (kpart). Every single one is doing one job. You achieve astonishing results putting those kparts together (just like piping some output of some app into another).

GNOME' approach is the windows way. It was meant as a windows95 clone. Including a bad corba implementation and an unhealty 'options are confusing' and 'hide everything' mentality.

I wish, Phoronix would stop to be so freaking gnome centric.

The poll showed: most people use KDE. Only phoronix still ignores it.

[Kazade]

Originally Posted by energyman

I wish, Phoronix would stop to be so freaking gnome centric.

The poll showed: most people use KDE. Only phoronix still ignores it.

Which poll? GNOME is by far the most used Linux desktop... not that it matters at all. Anyway, there was a KDE news post only 2 days ago.. I'm not really sure what you are getting at.

I frankly find it incredibly sad that supporters of one OSS project would flame and abuse another. It's hardly in the spirit of it is it?

[kraftman]

Originally Posted by Kazade

Which poll? GNOME is by far the most used Linux desktop... not that it matters at all. Anyway, there was a KDE news post only 2 days ago.. I'm not really sure what you are getting at.

Phoronix poll. I also saw few other polls and KDE was a winner. I remember when KDE was default DE for many distros, but it started to change when Ubuntu came. Many people who migrate from other OS'es to Linux (Ubuntu in this case) have no idea there's another DE like KDE thus they beg for missing features at Ubuntu brainstorm, but KDE already has them. Show them both, one next to another and we'll see what they choose

I frankly find it incredibly sad that supporters of one OSS project would flame and abuse another. It's hardly in the spirit of it is it?

Read what gnome fanboys write on blogs.

[energyman]

what kraftman wrote.