Originally posted by przemoli
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Free Software Foundation Thinks It Can Stop SecureBoot
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While I support what the FSF stands for, this is doomed to be an ineffective campaign. Even if everybody who knows what secure boot is buys a computer with secure boot (a bold assumption, most will), we'd barely put a dent in their sales. I think the best route to pursue is exposing SecureBoot for what it is - an anticompetitive technology thinly disguised as a security measure. It's difficult to buy a new computer that doesn't come with secure boot, anyhow. I wonder how the SEC would feel about such anticompetitive measures if a strong enough case were to be made.
I'm glad that the FSF is trying to do something about this. While it might not seem so bad now, they're boiling frogs - I expect that legacy mode will be removed soon, and Win 8 SP1 or Win 9 will disable support for BIOS. If we're going to do anything about this, it needs to be soon.
On a side note, as much as I hate people hiring lobbyists, I wish the FSF had more. People are far too ignorant to the problems at hand to be able to cause change outside of a governmental framework - and I'm also glad that the FSF is fighting ignorance with compaigns like DefectiveByDesign.Last edited by chickenlinux; 29 December 2012, 11:20 AM.
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To me the answer to the SecureBoot problem is blatantly obvious - have an option in the UEFI settings to disable it. Anyone intelligent enough to figure out how to install and set up linux ought to know how to disable that. By having it as an enable/disable feature, the security code doesn't have to be given away so OSes like Linux can use it (giving it away basically defeats the purpose of it).
By adding a user accessible disable function (even as a mobo jumper), everyone wins - Microsoft can keep their initial security plans without anyone else meddling with it, mobo manufacturers aren't forced to take sides, the development of the feature doesn't have to be a waste of time, but best of all, the user gets to do whatever they want with their hardware. I don't see why this concept is so difficult to grasp. Sharing the key and signing a petition is not going to help.Last edited by schmidtbag; 29 December 2012, 12:51 PM.
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Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post... I don't see why this concept is so difficult to grasp. Sharing the key and signing a petition is not going to help.
In Europe, Germany has already made some statements about it:hsecure boot: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/it...s-1753715.html
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No, no, no, and no, guys. Hardware manufacturers, last I checked, may not provide disabling functionality for Secure Boot on ARM devices if they want Windows 8 certification. On x86 and other desktop hardware they must have Secure Boot in place, but may go out of their way to allow users to disable it if they want to write that code / include that switch / take that development time.
Now if I've got my facts straight here, this is an anti-competitive measure on Microsoft's part. I remember Ballmer saying they were going to beat Linux at its own game, but I never thought hedging it out of emerging markets in the name of security with hardware fuckery like this was the plan he had in mind.
Some have said that disabling SB in the BIOS is the way forward. These people are short-sighted. What is actually being advocated is installing another technical roadblock for new users. When one can have Windows 8 auto-magically "just work" and Linux requires poking around in scary assembly code interface options or cracking open the case and putting hands on raw electronics just to get things into a state where they can begin an install - which is a worse situation than we have right now - that's not acceptable. And what do we do when Windows 9 goes UEFI+SB-only and mandates that new hardware can't have BIOS if they want certification?
Look, you people obviously don't care what happens to your computer. Just send it to me and I'll give it a good home. After all, if you're willing to let hardware and software manufacturers dictate how you use the products that you've bought, why can't I?
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You might be able to disable "SecureBoot" today in some devices, but the problem is tomorrow the choice will be gone.
The sole purpose of SB is to stop users from replacing software. They want to turn general computers into appliances, tied forever to the software they ship with.
Perhaps the FSF should join forces with the EFF on this one.
Stopping this requires to go against corporations, but in the USA its them who dictate laws. Maybe in EU they might pass a law to make SB optional.
In short Microsoft wants to forbid deleting windows, akin to phones needing jailbreak to do anything useful.
Even if it looks easy to do workarounds today, it will become an arms race. Soon it will be considered "circumventing", etc...
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Originally posted by northar View PostI bet it's gonna help a zillion more times then writing a forum post that says that protesting about it won't help. Taking some action is always better than none at all.
In Europe, Germany has already made some statements about it:hsecure boot: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/it...s-1753715.html
Originally posted by LarianNo, no, no, and no, guys. Hardware manufacturers, last I checked, may not provide disabling functionality for Secure Boot on ARM devices if they want Windows 8 certification. On x86 and other desktop hardware they must have Secure Boot in place, but may go out of their way to allow users to disable it if they want to write that code / include that switch / take that development time.
Now if I've got my facts straight here, this is an anti-competitive measure on Microsoft's part. I remember Ballmer saying they were going to beat Linux at its own game, but I never thought hedging it out of emerging markets in the name of security with hardware fuckery like this was the plan he had in mind.
Some have said that disabling SB in the BIOS is the way forward. These people are short-sighted. What is actually being advocated is installing another technical roadblock for new users. When one can have Windows 8 auto-magically "just work" and Linux requires poking around in scary assembly code interface options or cracking open the case and putting hands on raw electronics just to get things into a state where they can begin an install - which is a worse situation than we have right now - that's not acceptable. And what do we do when Windows 9 goes UEFI+SB-only and mandates that new hardware can't have BIOS if they want certification?
Look, you people obviously don't care what happens to your computer. Just send it to me and I'll give it a good home. After all, if you're willing to let hardware and software manufacturers dictate how you use the products that you've bought, why can't I?
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