Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Linus Torvalds Calls For More Linux Kernel Patches

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    Totally, utterly, and completely wrong. Admitting that a certain group is disadvantaged in society is not equal to believing it to be innately inferior. Do labour unions exist because they believe their members are inferior to the management? One can only believe a line like that if they harbour a total and complete misunderstanding of the use of power in human relationships and society. And like it or not, women often become far more powerless in society than men, and often have their issues ignored by male dominated governments and corporations. And like any other group they have their own unique issues and problems that need to be advocated for and addressed by society. You just need to look at a newspaper and see how female reproductive health is being abused to see why women still need their advocates. Those advocates happen to be feminists. Whether you truly understand what the term means is still up for question, but to write them off at this time in history is simply asinine.

    Are such things as selective internships for women in technical fields a good thing? I honestly don't know. But simply because you have a bee in your trousers over the fact that some people can actually observe that in our modern world things still are not fair or based truly on merit simply serves to show that you have buried your head so far into the sand for so long that you have gotten enough sand in your eye's to obscure your vision. If you truly want to passionately hate something, why not go after injustice in general rather than those trying to level a still uneven playing field. You do not need to agree with everything an advocate proposes, but you should at least be glad that someone wants to be do something to make the world a brighter place. Because currently, it simply is not all that bright a place for a large ammount of people supposedly born equal. And that does need to be adressed.
    so there are labour unions, and there are the other site the oter unions the company unions... so doesnt you think its funny that there are no masculinist groups that whine about how unfair woman are? I mean yes some random people like us maybe but no group... and "we" have no united agenda or something, we have no religious figures that we belive each word when this person speaks...

    and another thing I saw demonstrations of woman that called people rapists just because the belived in other theorie... feminism is very agressive, its ok to have different view-points different belives but I know not much groups that are so aggressive than feminist groups.

    And no its not woman vs men, we have rich men vs poor man and woman... you just dont get that, just because you are in a "minority" thats not even true, because woman have similiar percentage in people in the community, but you feal discriminated like a minority...

    So even if at some point, ok lets say (clearly thats not my opinion) even today woman would have been discreminated, so are other groups where are the foreigner-lobbiest on universities or schools or in bigger comapnies? maybe in the biggest companies there is also that I dont know but in universities at least here in germany not... where is the lobbiest for "big people". where the lobbiest for drug users...

    would you really think that if woman from your view would not discreminated anymore, whatever that means (guaranteed job over unemployed man?) our biggest problems in the world would be solved? I dont think so... so its wasted time to fight about that.

    I believe in freedom, in real freedom, to give everybody the right to do everything is not enough, real freedom is when you also are free to deny all. so you can say I dont take this job and dont hunger to death because of that, or I dont die on the next small illness because I have no health ensurence. so that you cannot not be blackmailed.

    And there are stuff where you clearly see, that woman take their own freedom by them self... I mean shurely there are a few man that really force their wife to clean the house... but often its the other way around... or the woman does it without the man ever said he think that it needs to be done... maybe its the fear what the neighbor WOMAN says or the mother WOMAN says if they visit but thats nothing a man is guilty off. If woman have a genetic (I say IF) smaller dirt-tolerance its not the fault of the man.

    Btu the point I really wanted to make... if nobody can be blackmailed and they still do stuff its their fault isnt it? So, why not fight together for a basic income grant, individualy also for children, and of course the same amount for the woman. Then it does not even matter who was right you or we.

    All woman can not be forced to do anything they dont want. if they do something its because they want it that way.

    But of course you fear more that you can have some few rich individuals and that woman are not there to help enslave all the others.

    Comment


    • #62
      There are men's groups such as MRA and MGTOW, with very legitimate issues such as unbalanced marriage, custody, and divorce courts.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by curaga View Post
        There are men's groups such as MRA and MGTOW, with very legitimate issues such as unbalanced marriage, custody, and divorce courts.
        like you say it they want that both groups get threadet the same by the law. thats clearly normal... but to fight to get special laws that puts your sex in a better position than the other is another thing.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          and another thing I saw demonstrations of woman that called people rapists just because the belived in other theorie... feminism is very agressive, its ok to have different view-points different belives but I know not much groups that are so aggressive than feminist groups.
          And people here are not being aggressive? You are always going to get flack on both sides, and to condemn an entire idea based on the actions of a few of its adherents is just as stupid as blaming an entire country for the words of a few of their bigots.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          And no its not woman vs men, we have rich men vs poor man and woman...
          I fully understand class consciousness, thank you very much. I am a self-educated Marxist for heaven's sake. I still do not see how one act of discrimination can whitewash another.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          you just dont get that, just because you are in a "minority" thats not even true, because woman have similiar percentage in people in the community, but you feal discriminated like a minority...
          First off, interesting assumption on the word "you". I post here with my real name, maybe that should have given you a clue as to my gender.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          So even if at some point, ok lets say (clearly thats not my opinion) even today woman would have been discreminated, so are other groups where are the foreigner-lobbiest on universities or schools or in bigger comapnies? maybe in the biggest companies there is also that I dont know but in universities at least here in germany not... where is the lobbiest for "big people". where the lobbiest for drug users...
          I know for a fact in Canada we have lobbyists for both drug users and fat people. In fact, we have a whole political party specifically advocating for the legalization of marijuana. Go to Google and Wikipedia and you will find that there are in fact people advocating for these groups just as feminists do for women.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          would you really think that if woman from your view would not discreminated anymore, whatever that means (guaranteed job over unemployed man?) our biggest problems in the world would be solved? I dont think so... so its wasted time to fight about that.
          First off, no one said guaranteed job, not even in the original proposal that was being discussed here. Second, define what are these bigger problems are. There are certainly issues on this planet which do indeed have more wide reaching effects, but very few. As you pointed out, there are basically the same amount of women on this planet as their are men, so I think there issues can be safely ranked as important. And besides, who are you to tell people what problems they should be fighting against? Who are you to tell people what issues people should get passionate about? Ranking social problems does not exactly seem like a productive use of time to me. I would much rather have people working on solving them.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          I believe in freedom, in real freedom, to give everybody the right to do everything is not enough, real freedom is when you also are free to deny all. so you can say I dont take this job and dont hunger to death because of that, or I dont die on the next small illness because I have no health ensurence. so that you cannot not be blackmailed.
          Fine, I do not exactly see how feminism challenges any of this.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          Btu the point I really wanted to make... if nobody can be blackmailed and they still do stuff its their fault isnt it? So, why not fight together for a basic income grant, individualy also for children, and of course the same amount for the woman. Then it does not even matter who was right you or we.
          If that is what you are passionate about, go ahead and lobby for your idea of a basic income grant. But I fail to see how you claim to the conclusion nobody can be blackmailed in this society when you admit to us all being slaves to rich men.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          All woman can not be forced to do anything they dont want. if they do something its because they want it that way..
          So anything bad that happens to you is because you want it? And does this also apply to violence against women? I am not really sure what point you are trying to make here.

          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          But of course you fear more that you can have some few rich individuals and that woman are not there to help enslave all the others.
          Again, I am not really sure what you are saying here. But as I said, I am Marxist. I hardly think I can be viewed as a stooge for the 1%.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
            like you say it they want that both groups get threadet the same by the law. thats clearly normal... but to fight to get special laws that puts your sex in a better position than the other is another thing.
            And how are these Masculine groups advocating for anything different than most Feminist groups, under your definition?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
              And how are these Masculine groups advocating for anything different than most Feminist groups, under your definition?
              as example they want woman-quotes. thats biased in one direction.

              And no the answer is not to say if man would like to work in kindergardens nobody hinders them, the answer would be that the kindergarden would also become a fixed quote they have to reach, on how many man work there, and that would be absolute must-goal... and if that would mean the country would have double the salaries for that job, than that would be neccessary.

              So I never heard a woman that cared about man-quotes... or quotes that are in general, I only hear from special woman-quotes from this site. So its a special sex-biased law this feminists want.

              that even is against our constitution, "every person has the same rights" so it would just be illigal to give extra laws for some people.


              BTW 1 Job I had a good interview on the phone I got denied because a woman-representive called me, she was not even officialy allowed to say me that a woman got the job now because she is a woman. I dont make a to big point of it, it was only 1 denial from many that happend this way... but how it hell is that ok. The least would be that this companies would be allowed to say that openly. What law is so bad that it have to be secret, cracy stuff.

              and like I said I personaly think that woman did even made the importance of work bigger they should have fight for more respect for not doing that work and the real right to not be dependend on anybody for a woman and a man... now both are slaves.
              Last edited by blackiwid; 20 July 2013, 08:06 PM.

              Comment


              • #67
                It goes even deeper

                Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                as example they want woman-quotes. thats biased in one direction.

                And no the answer is not to say if man would like to work in kindergardens nobody hinders them, the answer would be that the kindergarden would also become a fixed quote they have to reach, on how many man work there, and that would be absolute must-goal... and if that would mean the country would have double the salaries for that job, than that would be neccessary.

                So I never heard a woman that cared about man-quotes... or quotes that are in general, I only hear from special woman-quotes from this site. So its a special sex-biased law this feminists want.

                that even is against our constitution, "every person has the same rights" so it would just be illigal to give extra laws for some people.
                This discussion and the arguments of self-proclaimed "feminists" and "femifascists" are fundamentally flawed: Who determined that gender-quotas are something worth fighting for? Why is a company or institution "better" when the employees' gender breakdown is predetermined?

                So many people are talking about equal rights here, but in the end, they are too hypocritical to acknowledge that not only today's quota-laws are mostly favouring women, but that also the whole idea of gender-quotas is sexist in itself.

                There's no denying in this fact.
                Last edited by frign; 20 July 2013, 08:15 PM.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by frign View Post
                  So many people are talking about equal rights here, but in the end, they are too hypocritical to acknowledge that not only today's quota-laws are mostly favouring women, but that also the whole idea of gender-quotas is sexist in itself.
                  I think the argument from the people that support quotas etc. is that they are a necessary evil in order to prevent a (quite probably subconscious) self-perpetuating male dominance.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                    And how are these Masculine groups advocating for anything different than most Feminist groups, under your definition?
                    You'd better not throw him curve balls like that, he'll probably rant and rave in a long post, call you a psychopath and leave.
                    Blackiwid comes across as a very angry and sad person, when you can understand what he's writing.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      The inequitable gender-quota

                      Originally posted by archibald View Post
                      I think the argument from the people that support quotas etc. is that they are a necessary evil in order to prevent a (quite probably subconscious) self-perpetuating male dominance.
                      I would even agree that male dominance exists in some places. So does female dominance.

                      In fact, a law is supposed to preserve justice. It is not supposed to be an inequity itself, especially when the problem it addresses doesn't even exist in the first place (gender-ideology).

                      Also, when people discuss about gender-quotas, they often bring in the argument that women are generally paid less money.
                      Even if it was true a quota would be an overkill. Why not just pass a law which prohibited companies from selectively paying their employees by gender if it _was_ the case? Pointing out a quota doesn't make sense here.


                      What bugs me the most are female-specific offerings like consultation, internships and scholarships for scientific professions ("Girl's Day" in Germany, for example). And this already starts in school. What's the result?
                      Most girls still don't go the scientific way. On the other hand, many boys miss the opportunity to get an impression of a job they might have been fitted for.

                      Where's the justice here? Is it ignorable just for an unsuccessful struggle to force a quota upon the people?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X