Voting Proposed For Debian Jessie's Init System

[TheBlackCat]

bouth Lennart and Kay are huge proponents and contributors of GnomeOS
if i were to be cynical id say it was their goal with systemd all along

And the KDE community?

[TheBlackCat]

But what part of "trying to" you don't understand?

The mind-reading, I would think.

[panda84]

so if systemd (the kernel in userspace) was designed in the stile of the linux kernel, you could take idk logind and use it without systemd (only thing userspace is really dependant on is the kernel)
but you can't

Huh?

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMyMDE

https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/logind

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/saucy/man8/systemd-logind.8.html

[Pajn]

Huh?

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMyMDE

https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+archive/logind

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/...-logind.8.html

This is unsupported and the implementation is already broken compared to newest SystemD.

[panda84]

This is unsupported and the implementation is already broken compared to newest SystemD.

What do you mean for "unsupported"?
Here it's marked as "Completed on 2013-05-29":

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-consolekit-logind-migration

And how is it broken? Any specific bug report?

[Pajn]

What do you mean for "unsupported"?
Here it's marked as "Completed on 2013-05-29":

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-consolekit-logind-migration

And how is it broken? Any specific bug report?

Lennart Poettering made a post on G+ bragging that its broken.

https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/8RmiAQsW9qf

The last time they tried that they took logind out of the systemd tree and ported it to Upstart. logind of course is one of the components of systemd where we explicitly documented that it is not a component you can rip out of systemd. And of course, just a few months after Canonical did this, things are broken again, and this was to be expected: logind now uses the new cgroups userspace APIs (as mentioned above), and hence it will not run without systemd around. So Ubuntu is stuck with an old and unsupported version of logind. If they advocate this as a solution, then they are in ignorance onthat what they have is already out-of-date. (And yeah, this matters, for example all the nifty stuff that allows Wayland to run nicely without privs is implemented in the newer logind versions, and not in Canonical's forked version).

[panda84]

Lennart Poettering made a post on G+ bragging that its broken.
https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoet...ts/8RmiAQsW9qf

Thanks for the pointer. So logind is meant to be part of systemd only.

[You-]

This is unsupported and the implementation is already broken compared to newest SystemD.

You can't expect systemd maintainers to support alternatives to their software.

Here is a hint: they work on Systemd because they consider it the superior way. It is the job of those who disagree with that to provide support and maintain the alternative.

An alternative even exists: consolekit. But all you see is the nonsystemd crown bitching about systemd instead of maintaining this alternative (let alone adding logind-compatible interfaces)

The choices are that either Debian Jessie goes with Systemd or it will have subpar or aging Gnome AND KDE as both will be utilising systemd features.

[valeriodean]

Fortunately, that's true. But what part of "trying to" you don't understand?

And what part of "nobody forced other project to use any part of systemd (as per logind)" you don't understand?

You are free to use their software as well as they are free to develop it following the direction they have in mind.
You don't like the direction? Good, then you can:
- fork it
- adopt a different project
- maintain the old project
- start a new one

[Akka]

Thanks for the pointer. So logind is meant to be part of systemd only.

As I understands it....
The external dbus protocol in logind was supposed to be usable in other implementations of the protocol. Logind was written as a implementation of this for systemd.
But Canonical instead ported logind to upstart. This is and was not supported by upstream systemd so the internal api between systemd and logind don't have any stability guaranties. Only the external interfaces have that.