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  • #71
    Originally posted by Ansla View Post

    Total number of laptop models in their offer: 553

    Out those, 269 have Windows preinstalled, 212 have Freedos, 61 have Linux, while 11 have Mac OS X
    I love your country.

    Where I am, out of X number of laptop models available for sale, (x-1) models ship with Windows preloaded, with the other 1 model being Apple's Macs. No chance of getting any FreeDOS-loaded or Linux-loaded notebooks.

    And seriously, any experienced PC user will know that OEM-loaded copies of Windows are crap in terms of performance.

    My Acer laptop shipped with a copy of Vista that was so slow and mucked up that UAC takes a full 3 seconds to throw up the prompt. Scrubbed the HDD and loaded the machine with my own store-bought DVD copy of Windows Vista and the performance difference was stark.

    Microsoft should lay down a rule where by no OEM is allowed to mess up the factory image with pointless performance-sapping applications and 'utilities'.
    Last edited by Sonadow; 29 January 2012, 07:50 PM.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      I didn't think TurboCore used power states on Linux. I'm not at all sure about that but will ask; my understanding is that the absence of higher power states doesn't mean Turbo Core isn't able to run. I'm not sure how modern PM features like "staying within a power limit", "balancing load between CPU and GPU" interact with the power management subsystems on OSes but AFAIK a good part of this is done in the hardware without OS control.
      On the other hand Turbo Core might still not be working even if this isn't the problem; I guess the core question is whether the bug is really trying to say "Turbo Core doesn't seem to be working" or "I would like to see power state entries for TurboCore frequencies" ?
      cpufreq-info doesn't report frequencies higher than 1.5 GHz, so I think in fact TurboCore doesn't work. Also there is another Llano APU owner with same problem: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-and-bechmarks

      Originally posted by Qaridarium
      and the cheapest with linux:
      http://geizhals.at/de/721458
      Acer Aspire One 722 297,82?
      I doesn't believe this laptop come with preinstalled Linux or Linux is work fine on this laptop. Just look at list of the problems of this hardware (last time I check information from this page it was true even for latest BIOS). My guess - there is mistake in description.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
        I love your country.

        Where I am, out of X number of laptop models available for sale, (x-1) models ship with Windows preloaded, with the other 1 model being Apple's Macs. No chance of getting any FreeDOS-loaded or Linux-loaded notebooks.

        And seriously, any experienced PC user will know that OEM-loaded copies of Windows are crap in terms of performance.

        My Acer laptop shipped with a copy of Vista that was so slow and mucked up that UAC takes a full 3 seconds to throw up the prompt. Scrubbed the HDD and loaded the machine with my own store-bought DVD copy of Windows Vista and the performance difference was stark.

        Microsoft should lay down a rule where by no OEM is allowed to mess up the factory image with pointless performance-sapping applications and 'utilities'.
        True, it's not bad that I can escape the "Microsoft tax", even if for the wrong reasons. There is one catch though, the models with Freedos and Linux are usually the "cheap crap", it's harder to find one with better hardware without Windows. Generally the rule would be: price less then 500? - almost all come with Freedos/Linux, and as the price of the laptop increases the chances of finding one without Windows decreases.

        BTW, if you really want to use the OEM Windows license you got with the laptop you can download a clean image of the corresponding version from http://www.mydigitallife.info/64-bit...ownload-links/ and use the key written the Windows sticker on the back of the laptop to activate it... Windows 7 is even available in regular ISOs so it's easier to install.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by Qaridarium
          hey thank you for your writing.
          and what is with the people like bridgman they FORCE them to use windows!
          and he is not the only one i know many more!
          for example: ELSTER (gov-TAX) software in germany 100% windows only and you are FORCED by LAW! or DATEV its the TAX software for the Professionals tax consultants 100% windows. and i know 2 examples the University FORCE them to use WINDOWS to watch there education videos on the University website. and they GIVE a shit about linux or MACOS.
          Even though Apple would probably be a lot worse then Microsoft if they had a monopoly, for now the success of Apple is forcing many websites at least to use HTML5, which is a very good thing for Linux. But for tax software and hardware drivers it will not help much. Though, going from 2 versions to 3 is always easier then from 1 to 2.

          Originally posted by Qaridarium
          ok Pirating windows is not ok but FORCING people to use windows is ok ?
          When looking for a replacement for my old Eeepc that died last year, the only laptop smaller then 15" with E-350 APU and without Windows preinstalled available in my country was a Lenovo IdeaPad S205 that came with Freedos. While I didn't like the technical specs much I decided to give it a try, after all the store I bought it from offered the possibility to return it within 30 days if I'm not happy with it.
          The thing that really shocked me was that when I tried to update the BIOS, their website only offered a exe file for Windows. Now, if that was the only problem with it I would have probably called tech support to ask them how I'm supposed to run that exe in Freedos, but there were way to many problems with it so I just returned it to the store.

          Originally posted by Qaridarium
          ok back to your tropic i really think the market share of linux overall is much higher than the most people "Think"

          i think its even higher than websites like Wikipedia count it "3,5%"

          in fact linux users are very hard to count because they use windows IE browser fake in Konquorer for example and because: they buy windows hardware and install linux and because they are high skilled they build the hardware by them self and so one and so one.

          in fact the wikipedia 3,5% linux are the LOWEST posible number all REAL numbers are higher than that!
          The thing is, if you want bridgman to convince his bosses that the Linux market is really big and more money should be invested in it you need to come up with "irrefutable proof", not speculations that "it must be bigger then this". So far all attempts to come up with this proof have failed. http://linuxcounter.net is the oldest and most successful attempt at this that I'm aware of and yet they only managed to convince 130187 people to register. I don't see how a form on the AMD site could possibly gather more people. And the Linux Counter could easily be extended to gather information about the graphics card and the driver used like it does now for CPU model and kernel version. The only real problem is convincing Linux users to actually register themselves and their machines and install the machine update script.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by Qaridarium
            This prove you complete wrong because: you are a incompetent if you buy the LINUX pre installed hardware because: if you buy the windows hardware and upgrade the ram and install the linux by your own hand you save 60?


            why is amd windows hardware 60? less expensive than Linux ones?


            in my point of view this 60? prove: you are a liar!

            read it like this: if you buy windows you can spend 60? to debian or FSF.,
            This must because there are so few models without Windows available in your country. They are probably considered "luxury" because of their rarity.There is also another flaw in your argument, those models are from different manufacturers, so it's kind of apples to oranges comparison.

            Here, since almost half of the models don't have Windows preinstalled the difference in price is the one you actually would expect to see, the Freedos/Linux models are about 100? cheaper then similar configuration from the same manufacturer with Windows Home Premium preinstalled.

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            • #76
              While AMD doesn't "officially" say fglrx is a workstation driver

              It sort of speaks for itself as a product. At some point you have to look at a duck and admit it's a duck.

              They barely even support new Ubuntu releases, the accelerated video issues are well known, and don't even try running Gnome-Shell.

              I don't know how you can look at fglrx and claim it's suitable for non-workstation type use.

              Luckily, we have the open source driver to fill that need.
              Last edited by smitty3268; 02 February 2012, 12:47 AM.

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              • #77
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                • #78
                  Nvidia OptiMESS

                  It's bad enough that Nvidia OptiMESS is in our Laptops, but now they want to force it into our PC's/Desktops. ?
                  Yep, "DRM" at its best people.
                  Intel, Nvidia, (and Microsoft especially) finally KILLED any potential and powerful Linux graphics capabilities. This is also a mess for many Windows Apps/Games as well, unless of course they have Microsoft's -pfft "blessing" ?
                  I mean wow, thanks a lot, so now when I want to pay +$500 more just for an nvidia 675M I'm really only getting Intels crap GPU/chipset ?

                  I was about to buy a new Sager/Clevo laptop recently, but well here's some email conversations I had with them, including they're roplies:
                  ------------------------------- snip ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  (newest to latest responses... please read this from the bottom up below)

                  ->They said<-
                  Hi Rick, all the current high-end models have nVIDIA Optimus technology.

                  Allen Zhang
                  Sager tech support

                  -> I asked<-
                  From: me
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:24 AM
                  To: Sager Techsupport
                  Subject: Re: No Optimus support means NO Nvidia at all or no dynamic switching? (Sager Support Case ID:202227)

                  Hence, it'll only work in Win7 !?
                  What guarantee is this ?!
                  And what about "rendering",..., and many other types of graphic-intensive apps/software that don't work well with Optimus, and therefore all performance will suffer ?!
                  Which means this (675M) nvidia GPU/powerful chipset will NOT work in Linux at all, for example, since nvidia, in colution with Microsoft, Intel, ... have no plans of ever supporting Optimus software-switching in Linux.

                  This is very sad news, since people are paying top dollar for their powerdull nvidia GPU/chipsets for their laptops, and yet they will NOT get their monies' worth. If I "pay" for an expensive Video GPU/chipset then I have the right to use it when I want, ALL the time, and NOT the manufacturer.

                  This is afterall, nothing but "theft" on the part of Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, and Laptop manufactures' who agree to NOT put a GPU controlling feature in BIOS, or atleast they should NOT hardwire the "crappy" Intel "GMA HD GPU"on your high-end-graphics Laptops.
                  Unless you have not fully explained and understood my quiestion here, and/or Sager does in fact have a model without this Optimess, then I will probably never buy a Sager Laptop again. I will continue looking elsewhere.

                  Thankyou for your honesty, and please feel free to forward this to nvidia, and sager (sales,....) so that these people can understand how angry many Consumers are over this "theft" by manufacturers.
                  Thankyou.
                  "me"

                  ->They said<-
                  On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Sager Techsupport <Techsupport at sagernotebook dot com> wrote:

                  Hi Rick, model NP8170 is already phased out. The new model NP9170 does not have hardware switch for Optimus technology. The switching is controlled by software. The Intel GMA is the primary GPU. When you launch any graphic intensive programs, the nVIDIA GPU kicks in.

                  Allen Zhang
                  Sager tech support

                  -> I asked<-
                  From: me
                  Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 6:55 AM
                  To: websupport at sagernotebook dot com
                  Subject: No Optimus support means NO Nvidia at all or no dynamic switching? (Sager Support Case ID:202227)

                  Hello,
                  I am interested primarily in the NP8170, and/or NP9170, ..., and on your site you are quoted:
                  "Graphics Processor: Switchable GPU by NVIDIA? Optimus™ Technology - NVIDIA? GeForce™ GTX GPU / Intel? GMA HD GPU"
                  from: http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.p...el_name=NP9170

                  Please specifically state, if it is hardware "Switchable", or not, meaning in BIOS ?, since for that kind of money per Laptop I DO Need the option of being able to fully utilize the the full power
                  of the NVIDIA or (optionally Radeon) GPU.
                  I may not necessarily be using Window 7 at all.
                  Also, which Mobile GPU supports hardware switching? ie: 670M, ? 675M ? , ....
                  Thankyou, and the reason I want hardware switchable GPU selection via BIOS is becuase of this:


                  Please let me know your results please

                  Regards.
                  me
                  -------------------- snip -----------------------------------------

                  Yep, this is all pretty sad,
                  allrighty then.
                  Last edited by scjet; 16 May 2012, 04:52 AM.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by scjet View Post
                    This is afterall, nothing but "theft" on the part of Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, and Laptop manufactures' who agree to NOT put a GPU controlling feature in BIOS, or atleast they should NOT hardwire the "crappy" Intel "GMA HD GPU"on your high-end-graphics Laptops.
                    Unless you have not fully explained and understood my quiestion here, and/or Sager does in fact have a model without this Optimess, then I will probably never buy a Sager Laptop again. I will continue looking elsewhere.
                    You are free to express your dissatisfaction with how optimus is handled but could you stop being a nutjob about it?

                    Originally posted by scjet View Post
                    ->They said<-
                    Hi Rick, all the current high-end models have nVIDIA Optimus technology.
                    They only sell nvidia stuff? Is for example the radeon hd 7970M not high end enaugh?

                    Originally posted by scjet View Post
                    Intel, Nvidia, (and Microsoft especially) finally KILLED any potential and powerful Linux graphics capabilities.
                    Buy a notebook with a radeon 7970 and you have powerful graphics and even if it has powerXpress you have a good chance it'll work on linux.

                    Unfortunately it's pretty hard to actually find notebooks with the hd 7970m. Why seem Schenker, Eurocom and Alienware to be the only ones that have it at all?

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      While this is true, Id like to remind you that AMD also has vision of fglx being workstation-only driver
                      .Not true. Workstation is first priority for fglrx but I don't think anyone has ever said workstation-only. If you turned the statement around and said that we see 3D workstation as fglrx-only that's probably more true, but it's a completely different statement.
                      I think it used to be true, until Dell started shipping PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled. They made sure that there are now three distros that fglrx cares about (namely, RHEL, SLED, Ubuntu).

                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      And as of opensource driver, radeon gets too few actual company support and no possiblity for card buyers to support it, except code themself.
                      This may seem to be the case because buying a Radeon graphics card does not make you an AMD customer. You need to convince the OEMs (AIB partners, large PC vendors) to demand open source Linux drivers. These are the ones that AMD will listen to.

                      Indirectly, you can lobby hardware review sites to pay more attention to Linux. Manufacturers pay a lot of attention to those sites and take great efforts to cater for them, as they are important multipliers. A forum full of complaints will make AMD budge less than a single comment by Anand, Tom or Kyle.

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